Mask: simple question about it's clergy (thieving guild) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mask: simple question about it's clergy (thieving guild) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nicholas the Paladin
08-07-07, 12:38 PM Hi Guys,

A simple question: would the clergy of Mask (thieving guild) extort money from a rich familiy and when they wouldn't pay, kill it's members/guests/staff to set an example?

thanks!
Vasyek
08-07-07, 01:46 PM They certainly wouldn't have any qualms against doing so, but on the other hand I doubt it would be the first thing they turned to if the extortion game wasn't paying off. The whole setting examples thing seems like something they'd do only as strictly necessary to maintain the requisite amount of street cred, because beyond that it's still them with their hands bloody and not a coin to show for it.

Rather, I suspect that in a situation like this they would remain determined to profit off of the family by any means necessary: maybe they'll have the sons sold into slavery and the daughters forced into a life of prostitution, in which case they could be further exploited by the guild as sources of information and the like if they kept tabs on them/their clients, maybe they'll take precious heirlooms, maybe they'll sell whatever dirt they have on the family to their worst enemies, or hell, maybe they will kill them after all... could be that their organs are worth something to a necromancer they know, or they can persuade a rival family to pay the guild for killing the family that's fallen behind on their hush money.

Basically I'd say that the Maskarran faith is probably the least likely of any evil god's to act on the basis of malice or sense of affront. They'll do horrible, unconscionable things if it pays well, but normally they'd rather avoid the attention that nonsense of that sort brings upon them.
Green Elven Vampire
08-07-07, 02:59 PM Not all clergy of Mask are evil. Many rogues, bards and clerics are CN with tendencies leaning towards both good and evil.
GothicDan
08-07-07, 03:18 PM Mask is NE. So CLERGY of Mask (not lay worshippers) who are CN with tendencies towards Good or Evil would be fairly rare.
Nicholas the Paladin
08-08-07, 03:22 AM They certainly wouldn't have any qualms against doing so, but on the other hand I doubt it would be the first thing they turned to if the extortion game wasn't paying off. The whole setting examples thing seems like something they'd do only as strictly necessary to maintain the requisite amount of street cred, because beyond that it's still them with their hands bloody and not a coin to show for it.

Rather, I suspect that in a situation like this they would remain determined to profit off of the family by any means necessary: maybe they'll have the sons sold into slavery and the daughters forced into a life of prostitution, in which case they could be further exploited by the guild as sources of information and the like if they kept tabs on them/their clients, maybe they'll take precious heirlooms, maybe they'll sell whatever dirt they have on the family to their worst enemies, or hell, maybe they will kill them after all... could be that their organs are worth something to a necromancer they know, or they can persuade a rival family to pay the guild for killing the family that's fallen behind on their hush money.

Basically I'd say that the Maskarran faith is probably the least likely of any evil god's to act on the basis of malice or sense of affront. They'll do horrible, unconscionable things if it pays well, but normally they'd rather avoid the attention that nonsense of that sort brings upon them.

Thanks, you gave me some great ideas !
I'm planning a short adventure which involved a role my PC's don't usually take. That of defenders.

The challenge for me would be, how do I involve the PC's in these Maskarran actions. How would they know (for instance) that dirt is being sold to a rival family?

The basic idea is that a thieving guild (with some Maskarran clergy) demands 'protection money' from a rich family or else things will get ugly. The baddies hint that some unfortunate accidents might happen during the 'ball' the familiy has with a whole bunch of friends. The family asks the PC's to protect their mansion for the ball in the coming days.

the adventure takes place over a span of three days. During these tree days, PC's start making preparations for the imminent attack off course by asking around and rigging the house (etc).

day 0:
-the PC's get their assignement

day 1:
- in the evening en envoy from a rival family arrives at the manion. The Maskarrans sold some usefull info about the family (they evaded tax the last 5 years for their trade in exotic herbs) and now their rivals want a piece of the trade: the PC's witness the discussion (for the idea) and are asked to help to unload the lst ship that came in (...or something like that: just for ambiance and roleplaying)

day 2:
- the PC's are being attacked in their inn at night, since one of the staff is an insider for the guild: get rid of the defenders before the ball
- in the morning a precious heirloom is stolen from the family.

day 3:
- the mansion is attacked during the ball (I like complex, well prepared battles)

I try to keep it simple this time.
Vasyek
08-08-07, 03:31 PM The challenge for me would be, how do I involve the PC's in these Maskarran actions. How would they know (for instance) that dirt is being sold to a rival family?

That depends in part on the capabilities of the PCs. An accomplished thief might have a more favorable reception in their (potential) forays among the players in the town's seedy underbelly, wizards/sorcerers can impliment scrying, among other useful divinations, paladins and the like may enjoy greater cooperation from the local authorities (who may have some general information on various crime groups in the area), etc.

Then there's the more constant dynamics at play, such as the family's own experience with the thieves guild up to this point, which can lead to basic hints on its own, and the interests of conflicting parties that may exist both in and outside the group that's extorting them. A rival guild would likely be keeping tabs on this one if they have any rivals to speak of, and while they aren't likely to have a perfect grasp of the resources and tactics employed by this guild, they could have considerable insights into the guild's past/present activities that party could base their investigations on should the rival guild approach either the family or the adventurers. The family's tax evasion establishes that they aren't strictly on the up and up, and whether they like it or not, the family's more dodgy practices may have led to them to form ties with unsavory groups whose interests lie in their continued prosperity or who are all the more suspect for their knowledge of the family's secrets.

Another possibility is that the extortionists have people on the inside, who may themselves be victims of similar tactics or simply plants from the guild. In that case, a thorough housecleaning could yield promising subjects for interrogation or at least potential foils to subsequent information gathering/reconnaissance attempts on the extortionists' end. There's also any survivors/prisoners from day 2's attack, who may be more likely to have information on the guild or to be able to point them in the direction of those who can.

The basic idea is that a thieving guild (with some Maskarran clergy) demands 'protection money' from a rich family or else things will get ugly. The baddies hint that some unfortunate accidents might happen during the 'ball' the familiy has with a whole bunch of friends. The family asks the PC's to protect their mansion for the ball in the coming days.

It seems like you want to wrap this mess up in a fairly brief period of time, so I'm not sure how interested you are in further complications, but the announcement of where/when the guild intends to strike hints at a feint or misdirection. Maybe they do honestly hope to nix the family at the ball in spite of their forewarning and any subsequent preparations the family has mustered, but even so they could take advantage of the event to serve as a distraction for designs they hold on other areas under the family's control. Perhaps the entire family won't be present at the ball for whatever reasons they might have, and the maskarrans hope to abduct whoever's absent while the family's focusing their defenses on the ball, or perhaps the maskarrans want to smuggle something into or out of the family's other holdings/estates.

Even if the players do swat back the thieves at the ball without any casualties/hostages to worry about, there's still the missing heirloom to consider. Maybe it's just further leverage in the guild's 'negotiations', maybe they'll barter it off to the rival house they're in cahoots with as some sort of trophy of conquest or whatever... what's it worth to the family, and what's it worth to anyone else? Does it have any value beyond the monetary or sentimental?

There's also the nature of the maskarran's interest in the family and the implications of their success to consider. Are they only after the family's wealth, to what extent is this operation a priority to the guild, and what possibilities are opened to the guild with the family under their thumb?
Nicholas the Paladin
08-09-07, 03:40 AM And again, you're a great help. Thanks a lot !

That depends in part on the capabilities of the PCs. An accomplished thief might have a more favorable reception in their (potential) forays among the players in the town's seedy underbelly, wizards/sorcerers can impliment scrying, among other useful divinations, paladins and the like may enjoy greater cooperation from the local authorities (who may have some general information on various crime groups in the area), etc. Our group is 4th level, so magical means are limited. The Rogue could be the one to 'tap' into his network and find out more.

Then there's the more constant dynamics at play, such as the family's own experience with the thieves guild up to this point, which can lead to basic hints on its own, and the interests of conflicting parties that may exist both in and outside the group that's extorting them. I'm thinking that these inside conflicting interests are a nice touch.

I'm thinking about making a 'sepulchral thief' (Cityscape) the newly (self appointed) leader of this gang. The gang has untill now always been in the ways of extortion en thievery, since it is being led by a priest of Mask. But since the arrival of the sepulchrfal thief (=undead), things have become a bit more sinister. Some of the older members have a problem with it's more brutal and sadistic ways.

A rival guild would likely be keeping tabs on this one if they have any rivals to speak of, and while they aren't likely to have a perfect grasp of the resources and tactics employed by this guild, they could have considerable insights into the guild's past/present activities THis could indeed be a way to get more into the 'threatening guild' (guilld #1) itself. This coudl mainly being out of flavour.
I'm not quite sure what edge this info could give the PC's. It might eventually prevent the guild from attacking the mansion...that'll be a nice twist. But then again, I want to have some kind of fight on my hands (and so want my players) ;)

that party could base their investigations on should the rival guild approach either the family or the adventurers. hmmm, why would this rival guild want to do this? Doing so would thwart the plans of guilld #1...yup, that reason enough. But i don't want to do this all to quickly, since it would prevent the players from taking the initiative themselves. Info is being given...maybe a bit to easy. But, I like this idea, it might be a pice of info the players could use, when the puzzle seems a bit to complex for them.

The family's tax evasion establishes that they aren't strictly on the up and up, and whether they like it or not, the family's more dodgy practices may have led to them to form ties with unsavory groups whose interests lie in their continued prosperity or who are all the more suspect for their knowledge of the family's secrets. true

Another possibility is that the extortionists have people on the inside, who may themselves be victims of similar tactics or simply plants from the guild. In that case, a thorough housecleaning could yield promising subjects for interrogation or at least potential foils to subsequent information gathering/reconnaissance attempts on the extortionists' end. This was already one of my ideas.
I was thinking about an extorted guard (maybe 2) who gives away the defence plans of the mansion to the badguys. And a butler who's bitter about him not getting a better pay, when the familiy is doing well with unlawfull activities.

There's also any survivors/prisoners from day 2's attack, who may be more likely to have information on the guild or to be able to point them in the direction of those who can. Could be. I will think about that.

It seems like you want to wrap this mess up in a fairly brief period of time, so I'm not sure how interested you are in further complications, Yup, I'm a busy man, with a fulltime job and a second Masters on the side. So I want this to be not too long an adventure.

but the announcement of where/when the guild intends to strike hints at a feint or misdirection. that crossed my mind too. I was thinking about making this 'heirloom' (originally from day 2) an item of power for the Maskarrans. The attack is just a decoy. So the heirloom will be stolen on day 3 (during the attack).

Maybe they do honestly hope to nix the family at the ball in spite of their forewarning and any subsequent preparations the family has mustered, but even so they could take advantage of the event to serve as a distraction for designs they hold on other areas under the family's control. ...'nix'?.... other areas?

Perhaps the entire family won't be present at the ball for whatever reasons they might have, and the maskarrans hope to abduct whoever's absent while the family's focusing their defenses on the ball, or perhaps the maskarrans want to smuggle something into or out of the family's other holdings/estates. Both are good ideas, but think that it's getting a bit too complicated. I'll stick to the idea of the heirloom.

Even if the players do swat back the thieves at the ball without any casualties/hostages to worry about, there's still the missing heirloom to consider. Maybe it's just further leverage in the guild's 'negotiations', maybe they'll barter it off to the rival house they're in cahoots with as some sort of trophy of conquest or whatever... what's it worth to the family, and what's it worth to anyone else? Does it have any value beyond the monetary or sentimental? There will most probably be casualties, since 0-level citizins are hard to keep alive.

But then again, this attack is just a feint (the real goal is the Maskarran heirloom)..... so the PC's might wonder at some point. "Why aren't that many people killed?""
It's easy for a guild-wizard to cast Lightening Bolt and kill a couple of commoners. Maybe they could sense that some guild memebers are just attacking the PC and some are enjoying killling the party-guests...and that there is a tension between the guild members ('sense motive' all the way)

There's also the nature of the maskarran's interest in the family and the implications of their success to consider. Are they only after the family's wealth, to what extent is this operation a priority to the guild, and what possibilities are opened to the guild with the family under their thumb? goal # 1 is to retrieve the heirloom. But goal #2 is to keep the family on edge and succeptable to further extortion. So killing them all is not doing the trick.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 08-07-07, 12:38 PM	Hi Guys, A simple question: would the clergy of Mask (thieving guild) extort money from a rich familiy and when they wouldn't pay, kill it's members/guests/staff to set an example? thanks!
Vasyek 08-07-07, 01:46 PM	They certainly wouldn't have any qualms against doing so, but on the other hand I doubt it would be the first thing they turned to if the extortion game wasn't paying off. The whole setting examples thing seems like something they'd do only as strictly necessary to maintain the requisite amount of street cred, because beyond that it's still them with their hands bloody and not a coin to show for it. Rather, I suspect that in a situation like this they would remain determined to profit off of the family by any means necessary: maybe they'll have the sons sold into slavery and the daughters forced into a life of prostitution, in which case they could be further exploited by the guild as sources of information and the like if they kept tabs on them/their clients, maybe they'll take precious heirlooms, maybe they'll sell whatever dirt they have on the family to their worst enemies, or hell, maybe they will kill them after all... could be that their organs are worth something to a necromancer they know, or they can persuade a rival family to pay the guild for killing the family that's fallen behind on their hush money. Basically I'd say that the Maskarran faith is probably the least likely of any evil god's to act on the basis of malice or sense of affront. They'll do horrible, unconscionable things if it pays well, but normally they'd rather avoid the attention that nonsense of that sort brings upon them.
Green Elven Vampire 08-07-07, 02:59 PM	Not all clergy of Mask are evil. Many rogues, bards and clerics are CN with tendencies leaning towards both good and evil.
GothicDan 08-07-07, 03:18 PM	Mask is NE. So CLERGY of Mask (not lay worshippers) who are CN with tendencies towards Good or Evil would be fairly rare.
Nicholas the Paladin 08-08-07, 03:22 AM	They certainly wouldn't have any qualms against doing so, but on the other hand I doubt it would be the first thing they turned to if the extortion game wasn't paying off. The whole setting examples thing seems like something they'd do only as strictly necessary to maintain the requisite amount of street cred, because beyond that it's still them with their hands bloody and not a coin to show for it. Rather, I suspect that in a situation like this they would remain determined to profit off of the family by any means necessary: maybe they'll have the sons sold into slavery and the daughters forced into a life of prostitution, in which case they could be further exploited by the guild as sources of information and the like if they kept tabs on them/their clients, maybe they'll take precious heirlooms, maybe they'll sell whatever dirt they have on the family to their worst enemies, or hell, maybe they will kill them after all... could be that their organs are worth something to a necromancer they know, or they can persuade a rival family to pay the guild for killing the family that's fallen behind on their hush money. Basically I'd say that the Maskarran faith is probably the least likely of any evil god's to act on the basis of malice or sense of affront. They'll do horrible, unconscionable things if it pays well, but normally they'd rather avoid the attention that nonsense of that sort brings upon them. Thanks, you gave me some great ideas ! I'm planning a short adventure which involved a role my PC's don't usually take. That of defenders. The challenge for me would be, how do I involve the PC's in these Maskarran actions. How would they know (for instance) that dirt is being sold to a rival family? The basic idea is that a thieving guild (with some Maskarran clergy) demands 'protection money' from a rich family or else things will get ugly. The baddies hint that some unfortunate accidents might happen during the 'ball' the familiy has with a whole bunch of friends. The family asks the PC's to protect their mansion for the ball in the coming days. the adventure takes place over a span of three days. During these tree days, PC's start making preparations for the imminent attack off course by asking around and rigging the house (etc). day 0: -the PC's get their assignement day 1: - in the evening en envoy from a rival family arrives at the manion. The Maskarrans sold some usefull info about the family (they evaded tax the last 5 years for their trade in exotic herbs) and now their rivals want a piece of the trade: the PC's witness the discussion (for the idea) and are asked to help to unload the lst ship that came in (...or something like that: just for ambiance and roleplaying) day 2: - the PC's are being attacked in their inn at night, since one of the staff is an insider for the guild: get rid of the defenders before the ball - in the morning a precious heirloom is stolen from the family. day 3: - the mansion is attacked during the ball (I like complex, well prepared battles) I try to keep it simple this time.
Vasyek 08-08-07, 03:31 PM	The challenge for me would be, how do I involve the PC's in these Maskarran actions. How would they know (for instance) that dirt is being sold to a rival family? That depends in part on the capabilities of the PCs. An accomplished thief might have a more favorable reception in their (potential) forays among the players in the town's seedy underbelly, wizards/sorcerers can impliment scrying, among other useful divinations, paladins and the like may enjoy greater cooperation from the local authorities (who may have some general information on various crime groups in the area), etc. Then there's the more constant dynamics at play, such as the family's own experience with the thieves guild up to this point, which can lead to basic hints on its own, and the interests of conflicting parties that may exist both in and outside the group that's extorting them. A rival guild would likely be keeping tabs on this one if they have any rivals to speak of, and while they aren't likely to have a perfect grasp of the resources and tactics employed by this guild, they could have considerable insights into the guild's past/present activities that party could base their investigations on should the rival guild approach either the family or the adventurers. The family's tax evasion establishes that they aren't strictly on the up and up, and whether they like it or not, the family's more dodgy practices may have led to them to form ties with unsavory groups whose interests lie in their continued prosperity or who are all the more suspect for their knowledge of the family's secrets. Another possibility is that the extortionists have people on the inside, who may themselves be victims of similar tactics or simply plants from the guild. In that case, a thorough housecleaning could yield promising subjects for interrogation or at least potential foils to subsequent information gathering/reconnaissance attempts on the extortionists' end. There's also any survivors/prisoners from day 2's attack, who may be more likely to have information on the guild or to be able to point them in the direction of those who can. The basic idea is that a thieving guild (with some Maskarran clergy) demands 'protection money' from a rich family or else things will get ugly. The baddies hint that some unfortunate accidents might happen during the 'ball' the familiy has with a whole bunch of friends. The family asks the PC's to protect their mansion for the ball in the coming days. It seems like you want to wrap this mess up in a fairly brief period of time, so I'm not sure how interested you are in further complications, but the announcement of where/when the guild intends to strike hints at a feint or misdirection. Maybe they do honestly hope to nix the family at the ball in spite of their forewarning and any subsequent preparations the family has mustered, but even so they could take advantage of the event to serve as a distraction for designs they hold on other areas under the family's control. Perhaps the entire family won't be present at the ball for whatever reasons they might have, and the maskarrans hope to abduct whoever's absent while the family's focusing their defenses on the ball, or perhaps the maskarrans want to smuggle something into or out of the family's other holdings/estates. Even if the players do swat back the thieves at the ball without any casualties/hostages to worry about, there's still the missing heirloom to consider. Maybe it's just further leverage in the guild's 'negotiations', maybe they'll barter it off to the rival house they're in cahoots with as some sort of trophy of conquest or whatever... what's it worth to the family, and what's it worth to anyone else? Does it have any value beyond the monetary or sentimental? There's also the nature of the maskarran's interest in the family and the implications of their success to consider. Are they only after the family's wealth, to what extent is this operation a priority to the guild, and what possibilities are opened to the guild with the family under their thumb?
Nicholas the Paladin 08-09-07, 03:40 AM	And again, you're a great help. Thanks a lot ! That depends in part on the capabilities of the PCs. An accomplished thief might have a more favorable reception in their (potential) forays among the players in the town's seedy underbelly, wizards/sorcerers can impliment scrying, among other useful divinations, paladins and the like may enjoy greater cooperation from the local authorities (who may have some general information on various crime groups in the area), etc. Our group is 4th level, so magical means are limited. The Rogue could be the one to 'tap' into his network and find out more. Then there's the more constant dynamics at play, such as the family's own experience with the thieves guild up to this point, which can lead to basic hints on its own, and the interests of conflicting parties that may exist both in and outside the group that's extorting them. I'm thinking that these inside conflicting interests are a nice touch. I'm thinking about making a 'sepulchral thief' (Cityscape) the newly (self appointed) leader of this gang. The gang has untill now always been in the ways of extortion en thievery, since it is being led by a priest of Mask. But since the arrival of the sepulchrfal thief (=undead), things have become a bit more sinister. Some of the older members have a problem with it's more brutal and sadistic ways. A rival guild would likely be keeping tabs on this one if they have any rivals to speak of, and while they aren't likely to have a perfect grasp of the resources and tactics employed by this guild, they could have considerable insights into the guild's past/present activities THis could indeed be a way to get more into the 'threatening guild' (guilld #1) itself. This coudl mainly being out of flavour. I'm not quite sure what edge this info could give the PC's. It might eventually prevent the guild from attacking the mansion...that'll be a nice twist. But then again, I want to have some kind of fight on my hands (and so want my players) ;) that party could base their investigations on should the rival guild approach either the family or the adventurers. hmmm, why would this rival guild want to do this? Doing so would thwart the plans of guilld #1...yup, that reason enough. But i don't want to do this all to quickly, since it would prevent the players from taking the initiative themselves. Info is being given...maybe a bit to easy. But, I like this idea, it might be a pice of info the players could use, when the puzzle seems a bit to complex for them. The family's tax evasion establishes that they aren't strictly on the up and up, and whether they like it or not, the family's more dodgy practices may have led to them to form ties with unsavory groups whose interests lie in their continued prosperity or who are all the more suspect for their knowledge of the family's secrets. true Another possibility is that the extortionists have people on the inside, who may themselves be victims of similar tactics or simply plants from the guild. In that case, a thorough housecleaning could yield promising subjects for interrogation or at least potential foils to subsequent information gathering/reconnaissance attempts on the extortionists' end. This was already one of my ideas. I was thinking about an extorted guard (maybe 2) who gives away the defence plans of the mansion to the badguys. And a butler who's bitter about him not getting a better pay, when the familiy is doing well with unlawfull activities. There's also any survivors/prisoners from day 2's attack, who may be more likely to have information on the guild or to be able to point them in the direction of those who can. Could be. I will think about that. It seems like you want to wrap this mess up in a fairly brief period of time, so I'm not sure how interested you are in further complications, Yup, I'm a busy man, with a fulltime job and a second Masters on the side. So I want this to be not too long an adventure. but the announcement of where/when the guild intends to strike hints at a feint or misdirection. that crossed my mind too. I was thinking about making this 'heirloom' (originally from day 2) an item of power for the Maskarrans. The attack is just a decoy. So the heirloom will be stolen on day 3 (during the attack). Maybe they do honestly hope to nix the family at the ball in spite of their forewarning and any subsequent preparations the family has mustered, but even so they could take advantage of the event to serve as a distraction for designs they hold on other areas under the family's control. ...'nix'?.... other areas? Perhaps the entire family won't be present at the ball for whatever reasons they might have, and the maskarrans hope to abduct whoever's absent while the family's focusing their defenses on the ball, or perhaps the maskarrans want to smuggle something into or out of the family's other holdings/estates. Both are good ideas, but think that it's getting a bit too complicated. I'll stick to the idea of the heirloom. Even if the players do swat back the thieves at the ball without any casualties/hostages to worry about, there's still the missing heirloom to consider. Maybe it's just further leverage in the guild's 'negotiations', maybe they'll barter it off to the rival house they're in cahoots with as some sort of trophy of conquest or whatever... what's it worth to the family, and what's it worth to anyone else? Does it have any value beyond the monetary or sentimental? There will most probably be casualties, since 0-level citizins are hard to keep alive. But then again, this attack is just a feint (the real goal is the Maskarran heirloom)..... so the PC's might wonder at some point. "Why aren't that many people killed?"" It's easy for a guild-wizard to cast Lightening Bolt and kill a couple of commoners. Maybe they could sense that some guild memebers are just attacking the PC and some are enjoying killling the party-guests...and that there is a tension between the guild members ('sense motive' all the way) There's also the nature of the maskarran's interest in the family and the implications of their success to consider. Are they only after the family's wealth, to what extent is this operation a priority to the guild, and what possibilities are opened to the guild with the family under their thumb? goal # 1 is to retrieve the heirloom. But goal #2 is to keep the family on edge and succeptable to further extortion. So killing them all is not doing the trick.