Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 01-01-07, 07:55 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/959167400 yes, well according to this it seems that the War of the Spider Queen may well be continuing and I for one am quite happy at that news as I found the ending to the 6 part installment a bit dissapointing for somewhat inexplicable reasons...we will surely get to see Lolth in her capacity as a Greater Power and what she is going to do with it...things will be radically changing I feel... so gents, what's your take?
Mirtek 01-01-07, 09:42 AM	we will surely get to see Lolth in her capacity as a Greater Power and what she is going to do with it...things will be radically changing I feel... so gents, what's your take? My take is that we won't see that much happen, and if, then mostly mortals fighting each other. Lolth may have become a greater power, but she's all but alone (she can count on Selvetarm, but would be foolish to count on Kiaranshalee). If Lolth acts to headily because of the inebriation of her new power she will be crushed by greater powers who have the real backing of a pantheon
BrianCritchley 01-01-07, 04:36 PM	yeah she's a greater power... honestly aside from being personally a tiny itty bitty more powerful my response is "so" she doesn't exactly have the power to directly take on the selderine or anything. Corellian could take her down himself. also while she's stronger so's the compeition. one of her rivals has likewise "gone up a step"
Zanan 01-01-07, 04:53 PM	My take is that we won't see that much happen, and if, then mostly mortals fighting each other. Lolth may have become a greater power, but she's all but alone (she can count on Selvetarm, but would be foolish to count on Kiaranshalee). If Lolth acts to headily because of the inebriation of her new power she will be crushed by greater powers who have the real backing of a pantheon Greater Powers with the real backing of a pantheon? Well, outside the halfling, dwarven and gnomish pantheons, who will not want to get enmeshed with the Spider Queen, there is only one pantheon that has an incentive to move against Lolth, the elven one. And they have done what they always have, looked on and enjoyed life at Arvandor. Will they suddenly grow anxious and start moving against Lolth, on her own plane? As for the others, there are hardly greater powers with a pantheon at hand wanting or willing to move against Lolth. Even though some on here have fun imagining somesuch. Brian Critchley Corellian could take her down himself. Based on what? Because he is what he is? Or his better statblock?
Mirtek 01-01-07, 06:20 PM	Will they suddenly grow anxious and start moving against Lolth, on her own plane? As long as she continues as she did before they certainly won't. If she grows too bold because her new power makes her foolish, it will lead to her demise.
GothicDan 01-01-07, 06:26 PM	Based on what? Because he is what he is? Or his better statblock? I'd say a bit of both. ;)
Old Sage 01-01-07, 08:04 PM	yeah she's a greater power... And on that, here's a little from Paul (note this includes SPOILERS from Resurrection) - "I can only speculate but the fact that Lolth is greater now than before does suggest there is something more to divine rank than simply the number of worshippers. This makes some sense. If Lolth was powered purely by number of worshippers, it would make little sense for her to encourage the kind of internecine house warfare that she does. After all, every obliterated house represents worshippers lost. Perhaps there are a multitude of factors that contribute to a deity's power, including, possibly, the molding and ultimate melding with an exemplar of the faith (in this case, the Yor'thae), or the risking of the divine existence on a ploy that embodies the very ethos of the god (as happened with Lolth here)."
Old Sage 01-01-07, 08:05 PM	And for more on Lisa's new trilogy, I would suggest interested scribes head on over to Candlekeep and take a look through her own scroll, as she's managed to share a few tidbits about the upcoming books in the past.
guitarlover65 01-01-07, 09:00 PM	did i miss somethin?...is there another part to the 6 part series?
Old Sage 01-01-07, 09:16 PM	No. 'Tis a new trilogy. See the URL Todesherr provided in the first post.
Swimblizz88 01-01-07, 10:59 PM	If Lolth does move to the offensive, i think the first thing she would do would be to take out her rival drow gods/godesses. Vheraun comes to mind...
Zanan 01-02-07, 05:04 AM	As long as she continues as she did before they certainly won't. If she grows too bold because her new power makes her foolish, it will lead to her demise. A lot of if's in there, right? Gothic Dan ... Corellon is rubbish and we all know it. :D
Mirtek 01-02-07, 11:39 AM	A lot of if's in there, right? No, not a lot, just a single one :P
Zanan 01-02-07, 12:20 PM	No, not a lot, just a single one :P A "mighty" if then. Of course, if it wasn't bold enough to crawl out of the Abyssal pit Mr. Good Elf God throw her into, reclaim divine status, intermediate deity status and now most likely greater deity plus having her kin harass anything that looks like a pointy ear for ages ... what is? I for one doubt that she plans anything grand for Arvandor in the immediate future ... given she has some recovery to do.
GothicDan 01-02-07, 12:22 PM	Corellon is CG. He probably doesn't care what she's doing until she's actually directly threatening the Seldarine or the Elves again. "Liberal" if you will. ;)
Todesherr 01-02-07, 11:05 PM	So no one has got the DL on what will be happening in the trilogy...if you do, let me know, ok?
Old Sage 01-03-07, 12:45 AM	If you check the scroll you opened at Candlekeep, you'll see that I provided you with a direct link to Lisa's personal scroll.
Zanan 01-03-07, 04:15 AM	So no one has got the DL on what will be happening in the trilogy...if you do, let me know, ok? Book is ordered and I'll do a revision* over at the DnD-Gate ... so you can brush up on your German as well ;) *Most likely by the end of February.
MarkusTay63 01-03-07, 04:57 AM	I can only speculate but the fact that Lolth is greater now than before does suggest there is something more to divine rank than simply the number of worshippers. This makes some sense. If Lolth was powered purely by number of worshippers, it would make little sense for her to encourage the kind of internecine house warfare that she does. After all, every obliterated house represents worshippers lost. Perhaps there are a multitude of factors that contribute to a deity's power, including, possibly, the molding and ultimate melding with an exemplar of the faith...Two things help her when she does her 'thang'. Because Chaos is in her nature, she receives some power from her worshippers constant fighting. Also, the killing of one's worshippers to GAIN power is a tried and true tradition amongst 'evil' deities (or at least those conceived of as 'evil' by others). I look at it this way, Gods use scrifice (the killing of or death of one's own worshippers) as a temporary power boost. Game-mechanic wise, this means a God will get all the worship-power that that individual would have provided during his/her lifetime, but all in one shot. The upside of this is that you get a quickie power-boost if you kill thousands of worshippers, as Cyric did, but there are two down sides. First and most important, you lose worshippers that you can't replace in the long run, and second, you only get the power that that particular sacrifice was worth at the time of death. e.i, killing a 2nd wizard will give all the power the average 2nd level mortal would generate in a normal lifetime, but you lose out on any potential he or she might have had. Had they not died, and gone on to be 30th level archmage and a chosen of their god, then all that eventual worship-power would have gone to waste. We need to come up with a better term then Worship-power. maybe Worship-juice? Worshipper Provided Energies (WPE's)? Since there is no actual game-mechanic for it, it doesn't really matter. It just makes me feel better when I can put things into 'quantified' rules. It helps me sleep at night. ;)
daimyotx 01-03-07, 02:19 PM	Two things help her when she does her 'thang'. Because Chaos is in her nature, she receives some power from her worshippers constant fighting. Also, the killing of one's worshippers to GAIN power is a tried and true tradition amongst 'evil' deities (or at least those conceived of as 'evil' by others). I look at it this way, Gods use scrifice (the killing of or death of one's own worshippers) as a temporary power boost. Game-mechanic wise, this means a God will get all the worship-power that that individual would have provided during his/her lifetime, but all in one shot. The upside of this is that you get a quickie power-boost if you kill thousands of worshippers, as Cyric did, but there are two down sides. First and most important, you lose worshippers that you can't replace in the long run, and second, you only get the power that that particular sacrifice was worth at the time of death. e.i, killing a 2nd wizard will give all the power the average 2nd level mortal would generate in a normal lifetime, but you lose out on any potential he or she might have had. Had they not died, and gone on to be 30th level archmage and a chosen of their god, then all that eventual worship-power would have gone to waste. We need to come up with a better term then Worship-power. maybe Worship-juice? Worshipper Provided Energies (WPE's)? Since there is no actual game-mechanic for it, it doesn't really matter. It just makes me feel better when I can put things into 'quantified' rules. It helps me sleep at night. ;) Way to post the spoiler info publicly for everyone to read. :clap: Now I have to find the wire brush and try to scrub the memory of that passage from my grey matter.
GothicDan 01-03-07, 02:24 PM	The thread title and all of the other posts should have made it quite clear that there were spoilers.
MarkusTay63 01-03-07, 04:39 PM	Way to post the spoiler info publicly for everyone to read. :clap: Now I have to find the wire brush and try to scrub the memory of that passage from my grey matter.Having read the books, I don't think Old sage gave away any part of the story in his 'spoiler', aside from the fact that Lloth survives. I was pretty sure everyone already figured that one out, but you obviously hadn't and I am sorry. :( Edit: Looking back at my post, I did not include the entire spoiler, and probably should have left out the part about the Yor'thae. I have since editted it. Like I said, I knew what was going to happen to the Yor'thae all along, and I thought the stories made that painfully obvious. The ending was less of surprise and more of a WTF? to me.
daimyotx 01-04-07, 12:46 PM	some of us can be selectively obtuse when perusing threads. :D I have not read the last 2 books of the series (out of sheer laziness). I was more up-in-arms about the fact that the previous spoiler info that the OldSage blacked out (thank you for that, btw) was inadvertently un-blacked when it was quoted. Of course my brain fails me when I try to remember the tag for making the spoiler drop-downs. That seems to happen a lot lately.
SATA 01-04-07, 02:26 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/959167400 yes, well according to this it seems that the War of the Spider Queen may well be continuing and I for one am quite happy at that news as I found the ending to the 6 part installment a bit dissapointing for somewhat inexplicable reasons...we will surely get to see Lolth in her capacity as a Greater Power and what she is going to do with it...things will be radically changing I feel... so gents, what's your take? IMHO I have some thoughts about what could happen or better say, what I would do if I were in the position of Lolth and Lady Penitent. I would strike at the rest of the pristessess of Eilistraee as my major penitent for my betrayal. Then I would strike at the Seldarine, just to make a point, Lolth awake and no one is save, Her venom will be tasted... I would leave Vhaerun alone, to prove two points, first my chaotic nature and not attack him for his attempt against me and second and more important, I will leave you alone cuz you are no thread against me so hide out of fear in the deepest hole you can find. Just a few personal thoughts about what I think could happend in the coming Lady Penitent trilogy. There's MY take.
GothicDan 01-04-07, 02:37 PM	Then I would strike at the Seldarine, just to make a point, Lolth awake and no one is save, Her venom will be tasted... THAT would make the Seldarine respond. The Dark Seldarine: Lolth (a greater power, probably lower on the rung of DvR), Kiaransalee (Lesser), Vhaeraun (Lesser?), Selvetarm (Lesser), Ghaunadaur (Lesser - if he'd even step in...) Versus.. The Seldarine: Corellon (DvR 19), Angarradh (Greater), etc. etc. If they ever actually warred with each other again, one on one, the Dark Seldarine would be slaughtered faster than one could blink. I give Lolth more intelligence than to make an open assault on the Seldarine in any fashion.
Mirtek 01-04-07, 06:16 PM	Selvetarm (Lesser) Has he ascended too? Isn't he still a demigod. Also I agree that Ghaunadaur would not join them and Vhaerun would not join the party either. So that would leave only Lolth, Selvetarm and Kiaranshalee (and Kiaranshalee would do anything she can to find a way to avoid the battle too).
SATA 01-05-07, 12:20 AM	I guess everyone agree that Lolth is more intelligent than that, besides that's not Her way to do things. I didn't give any details of what I would do if I were playing the role of Lolth or Lady Penitent, it was just a few thoughts and the thought of Lolth/Lady Penitent make a move against the Seldarine, like I said, is just to make a point, Lolth has awake... It isn't an open battle, it is a move just to make a point and plant a seed, the aftermath is what ( I ) Lolth is looking for so the move should be made in a way that the response don't affect me much or step me down in my real plans in the future.
Paledrow 01-05-07, 07:30 PM	Ausome! I had no idea they were actually going to continue the series. Woot!
Paledrow 01-05-07, 07:51 PM	THAT would make the Seldarine respond. The Dark Seldarine: Lolth (a greater power, probably lower on the rung of DvR), Kiaransalee (Lesser), Vhaeraun (Lesser?), Selvetarm (Lesser), Ghaunadaur (Lesser - if he'd even step in...) Versus.. The Seldarine: Corellon (DvR 19), Angarradh (Greater), etc. etc. If they ever actually warred with each other again, one on one, the Dark Seldarine would be slaughtered faster than one could blink. I give Lolth more intelligence than to make an open assault on the Seldarine in any fashion. Vhaeraun is indeed a lesser, but Selvatarm is not even a lesser. He's below lesser, unless I read the pantheon list incorrectly. --------------------------- My DROW ART gallery:http://paledrow.deviantart.com/
Paledrow 01-05-07, 07:56 PM	IMHO I have some thoughts about what could happen or better say, what I would do if I were in the position of Lolth and Lady Penitent. I would strike at the rest of the pristessess of Eilistraee as my major penitent for my betrayal. Then I would strike at the Seldarine, just to make a point, Lolth awake and no one is save, Her venom will be tasted... I would leave Vhaerun alone, to prove two points, first my chaotic nature and not attack him for his attempt against me and second and more important, I will leave you alone cuz you are no thread against me so hide out of fear in the deepest hole you can find. Just a few personal thoughts about what I think could happend in the coming Lady Penitent trilogy. There's MY take. Vhaeraun is no immediate threat but he is her biggest potential threat. But she would not attack him for one reason: He did exactly what she expects him and encourages him to do, attack her. It actually says in the explanation of the dark powers (forgot which book) that she expects no less of Vhaeraun but to act against her as she has planned for him. How's that for qaulity mothering? lol. ... It is part of her insanity I suppose. --------------------------- My DROW ART gallery:http://paledrow.deviantart.com/
ripvanwormer 01-05-07, 08:01 PM	Remember that Lolth gains power from her dead worshipers just as much as she does from her living ones. Her petitioners in the Demonweb continue to empower her in death, as in life. But yes, she gains power from acts relating to her portfolio as well as straight-up worship. It helps (and is perhaps crucial) when those acting chaotically believe in her, though, and respect and fear her power. If the drow credited Talos for the chaos that befalls them, it wouldn't do Lolth any good. But when the drow turn on and destroy one another, knowing the Spider Queen is somehow behind the turmoil, that's about as worshipful as it gets. The belief of her enemies, those who her followers teach to fear her name, is just as good as the belief of her faithful.
QuenthelsChampion 01-06-07, 03:49 PM	Well #1 im just happy that the books are coming out. WotSQ was my favorite Forgotten Realms series. And i cannot wait even though i dislike Halisstra very much. Hopefully we will see more of this "new" Lolth, and if I'm lucky we will run into my Mistress Quenthel on the way. Yet i do doubt that very much. #2 is a spoiler from the last book in the WofSQ series. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! After she was transformed she had thoughts of going to the Velarswood. So that might be what it is about. Remember Lolths plotting little son wasn't the only one that tried to kill her before she awoke. Her daughter tried too. If anything the books would be about Halisstra reinstating her clergy. We might even see what happened to Ched Nasad in the books.
Paledrow 01-06-07, 03:52 PM	I see people refer to Lolth's chaotic nature as if it is pure. If you examine her motives you can gather that she is more "directed chaos" then she is "pure chaos". Directed chaos meaning chaos with a goal. Where am I going with that? Well I don't think Lolth gains power from the drow destroying each other per say because the whole point of in-fighting among the drow is not to emulate the ways of chaos, but to weed out the weak and strengthen the genetic base. Weeding out the weak is not a chaotic act but a purposefull one.
Paledrow 01-06-07, 03:54 PM	Well #1 im just happy that the books are coming out. WotSQ was my favorite Forgotten Realms series. And i cannot wait even though i dislike Halisstra very much. Hopefully we will see more of this "new" Lolth, and if I'm lucky we will run into my Mistress Quenthel on the way. Yet i do doubt that very much. I could not stand Halisstra either. She was so weak in character. -------------- More DROW ELF ART at:http://paledrow.deviantart.com/
MarkusTay63 01-08-07, 01:14 AM	Lolth would never directly act against the Selarine, but I could see her using Vhaeraun against them. In fact, the presence of Drow in Cormanthyr at the same time as the Elves return might not be coincidence. Lolth has always been the queen of manipulation, she may even have been behind the falling out of Corellon and Grumsh. She is a spider, and she weaves her web of deciet and treachery in every sphere. In fact, she may have pulled off her trick of self-promotion by absorbing manifestations of herself from other spheres. If you think about it, there has to be almost as many Lloths in the multiverse as there are Corellons.
Dxzauvrinn 01-08-07, 11:23 PM	Lolth would never directly act against the Selarine, but I could see her using Vhaeraun against them. In fact, the presence of Drow in Cormanthyr at the same time as the Elves return might not be coincidence. Lolth has always been the queen of manipulation, she may even have been behind the falling out of Corellon and Grumsh. She is a spider, and she weaves her web of deciet and treachery in every sphere. In fact, she may have pulled off her trick of self-promotion by absorbing manifestations of herself from other spheres. If you think about it, there has to be almost as many Lloths in the multiverse as there are Corellons. As for Lolth's hand in the fued between Corellon and Grummsh, read Evermeet the novel.
Zireael 01-09-07, 08:48 AM	And she pushed Malar on Corellon, don't forgot.
GothicDan 01-09-07, 11:31 AM	Malar vs. Corellon. Teehee, so cute.
Poison_Dusk 01-09-07, 11:32 AM	I just hope that these new books make up for killing my poor sweet innocent little Jeggred.
QuenthelsChampion 01-09-07, 12:05 PM	*twitches uncontrollably at the mention of Jeggred* must control....self.... He killed Ryld my second favorite character. Ryld was such a nice guy too. Sacrificed his life for love and ended up getting killed by a whipped half demon. Thats what he gets for messin with Baenre. I was hoping the three books do one surviving character at a time. Maybe the second on Quenthel and the third mayb on either Valas or Gromph. Maybe even bring back Phauran(sp?). I know that would make people by the book if they found that he was getting rezzed.
Poison_Dusk 01-09-07, 06:48 PM	First: Jeggred was a perfect example of pure badassedness. B. Ryld Was awesome, but let emotions get the best of him, Like some pathetic suface elf. 3. I was dissapointed that they killed of Pharaun, but would like to hear more about Gromph. Last: Jeggred was awesome.
Zanan 01-09-07, 07:05 PM	Only two characters of the main gang got my pass marks, Valas and Danifae. And we all know what became of them ... and we won't spoil the show for any unwary onlookers, will we?
Dxzauvrinn 01-10-07, 12:18 AM	I thought all the characters in the series, including the villains, were awesome, except for Halisstra. I wanted her to get flayed alive by Danifae, Quenthel, whoever. She was extremely boring and weak minded.
AskaniPsion 01-10-07, 06:01 PM	YES!!! More Lolth !!! I can ALWAYS take more of my favorite goddess! :D Wow Psionic (Secrets of Sarlona) & Lolth in ONE month! I am gonna love Feb!
Donraj 01-10-07, 06:23 PM	You know, people talk about how the Seldarine would pimp-slap Lolth if she got out of line and went after them...but hasn't she pretty much been doing just that ever since she was cast out? The drow go out of their way to slaughter surface elves as a sign of religious devotion, drow have been walking around in Myth Drannor for years, one her her nominal servants brought drow magic to the surface, and this was all before she managed to completely give the finger to Corellian's curse and apparently rise to a power level on par with his. Was setting Malar on Corellian before or after she was cast out? If she wasn't concerned about their retaliation when she was an intermediate deity riding herd over a few demigods and lesser powers who mostly hate her and want her dead why would she be afraid now that she's probably more powerful then she's ever been before?
GothicDan 01-10-07, 06:36 PM	Donraj... Those are minor things that Corellon can forgive. If you have noticed, there's been no evidence of the Seldarine actually fighting back or doing anything to the Drow or Lolth since the Descent.
Dxzauvrinn 01-11-07, 12:21 AM	I think the surface elves would be slaughtered if they made a concentrated effort to kill off the drow. The drow do a lot of infighting, but if the surface elves attack them in their own territory (the Underdark) they'd ban together and kick their pale asses. That's why the surface elves haven't "done" anything yet except for small groups like Shevarash's faithful. Plus, faerie elves have too much to deal with on the surface. Humans and orcs constantly give them problems. The drow mostly have to contend with each other and upon occasion, the other horrors of the Underdark. The Seldarine may be more powerful than its dark counterpart, but the Dark Seldarine's followers are a lot stronger than the Seldarine's. Of course, I expect Dan, probably Lord Karsus and some others to disagree, but I still think I'm right. :D
BrianCritchley 01-11-07, 03:57 AM	Donraj... Those are minor things that Corellon can forgive. If you have noticed, there's been no evidence of the Seldarine actually fighting back or doing anything to the Drow or Lolth since the Descent. well he did support the ancestion of Shevrash. so chances are while we've not actually seen Corellon "slap lolth down" he has almost certinly opposed her and foiled her. still as GD said, he's not particilarily careing too much as lolth and the drow haven't really done a hell of a lot. now that being said I think Lloth is asking get get slapped down hard as she's gotten VERY ambitious lately, what with the attack on Evermeet and her recent ascention. as for those who disliked Halistri cause she was weak, keep in mind she was SUPPOSED to be like that, she'd turn her backs on deities declareing them weak cause they didn't immediatly hold her hand, not reckongizing her own weakness.
Paledrow 01-13-07, 03:41 PM	I just hope that these new books make up for killing my poor sweet innocent little Jeggred. Do you mean killing his spirit as a bad arse? Because I do not recall Jeggred dying in WotSQ. Possibly I missed that chapter or forgot since its been some time since I read it.
Paledrow 01-13-07, 03:48 PM	I think the surface elves would be slaughtered if they made a concentrated effort to kill off the drow. The drow do a lot of infighting, but if the surface elves attack them in their own territory (the Underdark) they'd ban together and kick their pale asses. That's why the surface elves haven't "done" anything yet except for small groups like Shevarash's faithful. Plus, faerie elves have too much to deal with on the surface. Humans and orcs constantly give them problems. The drow mostly have to contend with each other and upon occasion, the other horrors of the Underdark. The Seldarine may be more powerful than its dark counterpart, but the Dark Seldarine's followers are a lot stronger than the Seldarine's. Of course, I expect Dan, probably Lord Karsus and some others to disagree, but I still think I'm right. :D If the "lighties" ever did go into the underdark to exterminate the drow (which would be suicide in mass) the thing that would kill them before the drow would be environment. I believe no surface race would be even moderatly succesful at a even mildly protracted campaign into the underdark.And any campaign as you suggested would be very protracted. A good portion of them would be dead or supplies exhausted by the time they reached their goal or shortly after, and any kind of seige would be poorly executed at best.
Paledrow 01-13-07, 03:51 PM	well he did support the ancestion of Shevrash. so chances are while we've not actually seen Corellon "slap lolth down" he has almost certinly opposed her and foiled her. still as GD said, he's not particilarily careing too much as lolth and the drow haven't really done a hell of a lot. now that being said I think Lloth is asking get get slapped down hard as she's gotten VERY ambitious lately, what with the attack on Evermeet and her recent ascention. as for those who disliked Halistri cause she was weak, keep in mind she was SUPPOSED to be like that, she'd turn her backs on deities declareing them weak cause they didn't immediatly hold her hand, not reckongizing her own weakness. Just because Hallistra was "supposed" to be weak doesn't mean we have to like that she was weak. :D:D Bob Sagget was "Supposed" to be funny. That didn't stop most people from hitting mute so he wouldn't ruin the funniness of the home videos.
Donraj 01-13-07, 06:56 PM	Donraj... Those are minor things that Corellon can forgive. If you have noticed, there's been no evidence of the Seldarine actually fighting back or doing anything to the Drow or Lolth since the Descent. If those are minor then exactly what qualifies as major? :eek: And the fact that they've been taking everything she's done on the chin and not doing much to retaliate really just lends credence to what I'm saying. Lolth is not afraid of the Seldarine. They don't have the ability to come in and squash her if they decide she's gotten uppity. She's transcended Corellon's curse upon her and given every one of them the finger and they haven't shown any signs of being able to punish her for it. I'm not saying that they can't do anything...just that she wouldn't hold off from going after them for revenge for fear of retaliation. Not when she's been so thoroughly successful at throwing them the finger.
Poison_Dusk 01-14-07, 12:29 AM	Do you mean killing his spirit as a bad arse? Because I do not recall Jeggred dying in WotSQ. Possibly I missed that chapter or forgot since its been some time since I read it. At the end of the last book he is killed by the wave of spiders that came at them in the Demonweb. IIRC I am rereading the series now and am only on book 3.
Donraj 01-14-07, 12:40 PM	At the end of the last book he is killed by the wave of spiders that came at them in the Demonweb. IIRC I am rereading the series now and am only on book 3. That was the wizard. Quenthal killed Jaggred herself with an Inflict spell at the end of the last one.
Zanan 01-14-07, 12:52 PM	That was the wizard. Quenthal killed Jaggred herself with an Inflict spell at the end of the last one. Well, Quenthel laid him low and the spiders gave him the rest ...
Donraj 01-14-07, 01:51 PM	I don't have the book, but the way I remember it Quenthel touched him and he was ripped apart by the magic.
Paledrow 01-14-07, 06:35 PM	I just cracked open the last WotSQ book and yes Jeggred died by Quenthal's hand....I had forgotten.:embarrass: Good, I hated Jeggred anyway. :D I am usually not fond of characters with low mentality. On the other hand, I clearly remember Pharaun dying and I was very angry at that. :mad: He was , IMHO, the most interesting character in the series by leaps and bounds.
AskaniPsion 01-14-07, 08:00 PM	Bob Sagget was "Supposed" to be funny. That didn't stop most people from hitting mute so he wouldn't ruin the funniness of the home videos. So so true - I always mute him when I see him :D
Zanan 01-15-07, 08:33 AM	I don't have the book, but the way I remember it Quenthel touched him and he was ripped apart by the magic. As I said, she (most likely) harmed him, yet he only died when the bustling horde of spiders took him ... (just nitpicking, of course ;) )
Zireael 01-16-07, 04:25 AM	Ech, back to the topic. What happened to Lady Penitent later than WotSQ?
Zanan 01-17-07, 03:58 AM	Ech, back to the topic. What happened to Lady Penitent later than WotSQ? Well we will know by the end of NEXT MONTH (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/959167400), I'd assume ;)
Lirdolin 01-27-07, 02:19 AM	Hello from Germany :) Sacrifice of the Widow arrived today Just flew over the pages, but as far as I can tell, 2 drow deities die in this firstbook alone :blink: (Although I'm not really shure about the red haired one;) ) Seems to be some sort of last drow-god(dess) standing. Really do hope that Eilistraee manages in these 3 novels to pull something through. It's sad that sofar she always lost her 'novel' converts (Liriel, Halistra). Halistra does appear in the book, but I don't think I spotted someone else from the WotSQ cast. Qilue is an important character but the main cast appears to be fresh an new, like Halistras brother.
Zanan 01-27-07, 10:30 AM	Lirdolin ... you should use the SPOILER option. As he said, if you think the War of the Spider Queen has finished, think again. More turmoil in this first book than in the previous SIX. I was expecting something about Lady Penitent, but the lass only plays a peripheral role. Massive Spoiler Eilistraee and Lolth play a massive sava game about dominance and all. Essentially, Lolth sacrifcies her champion - who is working things behind her back and gets killed by one of the Eilistraeen protagonist with the Crescent Blade - and Ao is watching .... while Vhaeraunians use ancient Ilythiiri high magic to open a sneak and grab portal to Eilistraee's realm for Vhaeraun ... only for him to ran straight into her blade, it seems. Two male drow gods gone then, it seems. Though the taint on Eilistraee wrought by these two evil deities does not go unnoticed ...
AskaniPsion 01-27-07, 07:51 PM	I thought this book was supposed to come out in Feb? So it is in stores now like Borders?
BrianCritchley 01-27-07, 08:19 PM	for some reason I can't see elistraee or lolth dieing, I don't think WOTC is going to kill off two of their most popular deities. I also suspect that reports of vhaerun's demise may be greatly exaggerated
Zanan 01-28-07, 10:46 AM	See Brian, that's the problem. We are left with speculations again. Remember that we are still - two years after WotSQ VI - speculating about the duration of Lolth's Silence and her current status? There are two more novels (and who knows what amount of time) to go till we find out how this resolves. Not that I dislike a good story, far from it. But the DM in me, the Drow DM in me that is, likes not to have the plans drawn and quartered for the better part of half a century. There are tons of other deities of the Realms waiting to be killed, laid to rest and what have you ... As for you point, I agree ... and I hope Kia might join them two as the surface bound evil power.
Shade 01-28-07, 02:40 PM	Lirdolin ... you should use the SPOILER option. Eilistraee and Lolth play a massive sava game about dominance and all. Essentially, Lolth sacrifcies her champion - who is working things behind her back and gets killed by one of the Eilistraeen protagonist with the Crescent Blade - Huh? I thought the Crescent Blade got broken by Halisstra in Book VI of WotSQ when she turns back to Lolth? Maybe that gets explained, though?
Dxzauvrinn 01-29-07, 02:17 AM	Zanan, the events in the novel actually take place three years after the WotSQ events. ;) Just picked the novel up today.
BrianCritchley 01-29-07, 04:34 AM	See Brian, that's the problem. We are left with speculations again. Remember that we are still - two years after WotSQ VI - speculating about the duration of Lolth's Silence and her current status? There are two more novels (and who knows what amount of time) to go till we find out how this resolves. Not that I dislike a good story, far from it. But the DM in me, the Drow DM in me that is, likes not to have the plans drawn and quartered for the better part of half a century. There are tons of other deities of the Realms waiting to be killed, laid to rest and what have you ... As for you point, I agree ... and I hope Kia might join them two as the surface bound evil power. well remember divine stuff gets complicated, and it could be years after things have happened that a deities demise is common, heck I think cyric is still maskurading and liirea. we do know that elistraee will be granting spells in vhaerun's name. I think one has to wonder if that might cause an eventual alignment shift, I'd be dissappointed if that was the case though. still one thing I do see changing is her rules about cleric genders. while the rules restricting the clergy to females made sense when she was mostly focusing on pulling in lothites if she's trying to incorperate followers of her brother she may have to make that concession
Theogonist 01-29-07, 09:22 AM	I hope my most favourite mage Pharaun will show up, too Pharaun was killed at the end of Book 3, I know. But someone has picked up a piece of him, remember :schemes: It should be enough for a true resurrection. I do not think she keeps it just for her pleasure - hmm or maybe she does :devil:
Zanan 01-29-07, 09:25 AM	Regarding the Crescent Blade ... it apparently reformed when thrown into the temple in the Demonwebs when Halisstra happened by later. She remained two years in the Webs before getting out by spying on Selvetarm. Regarding genders I actually have no problems if a deity has a restricted clergy. Could well go along the lines of having female Eilistraeens and predominantly male Vhaeraunians. Vhaeraun himself was actually portrayed as open to all, yet you could count his female clerics (if any - Masked Traitors aside) on one hand. I would assume that Lolth posing as Moander has no problem with male humans either. With regard to alignments, maybe Eilistraee changes to CN, but her bonds with the good aligned other Moon deities may be of help here. Could well be that Cavatina takes up a bit of a divine mantle herself, since she slew Selvetarm - a novum in the FR, as no mortal did so before. Then again, who knows what the Crescent Blade really is ... Regarding noveltalk ... we only talk background related stuff, so please no thread stopping remarks on the author.
BrianCritchley 01-30-07, 03:21 AM	well the crescent blade was created for the express purpose of killing a deity, presumably by elistraee, as such that should be all the divine help needed to slay a god.
Zanan 01-30-07, 04:34 AM	well the crescent blade was created for the express purpose of killing a deity, presumably by elistraee, as such that should be all the divine help needed to slay a god. Well, based on IMHO entirely irrelevant deity stats in F&P, neither Eilistraee nor Lolth can create artifacts or the like. Then again, some chap called Bruenor created a magical +X hammer without having half a level as spellcaster. Anyway, what I was relating to was that F&A etc. specifically stated that deity can only be killed by deities, the sole exceptions may be demigods - which Selvetarm incidentally is. In that respect, the Crescent Blade is not exactly described as a weapon to kill deities, but which "can" kill deities. Of course, speaking Rulish would mean that ... ... Cavatina in her fight against Selvetarm - which I have to admit looks either beyond any reasonable probability OR had to do with Tymora being in hysterics rather than just smiling on Cavatina - would have required a natural 20 plus another hit against an AC of a warrior deity. How likely is that, given the state she finds herself when delivering the killing blow. Anyway, that's history now, as is Bruenor's hammersmithing. Obviously, Lolth cannot (well, who knows) be killed that way, as she's split in eight aspects, each having its own body. Reminds me of a Borg queen.. Would like to see the scores of the blade one day nonetheless.
BrianCritchley 01-30-07, 10:03 AM	Well, based on IMHO entirely irrelevant deity stats in F&P, neither Eilistraee nor Lolth can create artifacts or the like. Then again, some chap called Bruenor created a magical +X hammer without having half a level as spellcaster. Anyway, what I was relating to was that F&A etc. specifically stated that deity can only be killed by deities, the sole exceptions may be demigods - which Selvetarm incidentally is. In that respect, the Crescent Blade is not exactly described as a weapon to kill deities, but which "can" kill deities. Of course, speaking Rulish would mean that ... ... Cavatina in her fight against Selvetarm - which I have to admit looks either beyond any reasonable probability OR had to do with Tymora being in hysterics rather than just smiling on Cavatina - would have required a natural 20 plus another hit against an AC of a warrior deity. How likely is that, given the state she finds herself when delivering the killing blow. Anyway, that's history now, as is Bruenor's hammersmithing. Obviously, Lolth cannot (well, who knows) be killed that way, as she's split in eight aspects, each having its own body. Reminds me of a Borg queen.. Would like to see the scores of the blade one day nonetheless. another thing to consider according to the sort of end bit with the sava game lolth herself killed him, so it may be that LLOTH secrectly helped cavatina to kill him
clevercommie 01-30-07, 04:45 PM	A lot of if's in there, right? Gothic Dan ... Corellon is rubbish and we all know it. :D HUH! BLASPHEMY! :bigeyes:
Zanan 01-30-07, 06:27 PM	HUH! BLASPHEMY! :bigeyes: Nah ... Holy Word, as it comes from a Kiaransaleen! :D
clevercommie 01-31-07, 04:36 PM	Nah ... Holy Word, as it comes from a Kiaransaleen! :D Ow...my pride... :mymy: Anyway, have the screen is blacked out so I'm not exactly sure which spoilers are safe to look at. I've read all of the War of the Spider Queen, anything happening from something else?
JRBlasingame 02-01-07, 03:31 PM	Didn't think this book was out yet. Did ppl get advanced copies or something?
BrianCritchley 02-01-07, 09:13 PM	Didn't think this book was out yet. Did ppl get advanced copies or something? no it's out
angelus_obscura 02-05-07, 01:45 AM	Sacrifice of the Widow came out during the last week of January, a week ahead of schedule (YAY for me). Anyways, the book good overall. The new characters are fresh and fun. Halisstra's brother, Q'arlynd reminds me of Pharaun, except for the thrill-seeking stuntsman thing he got going. I'm glad Qilue is actively participating in the series. She kicked major ass. Only downside was the lack of action the character that the trilogy was named after got. Now, about what happened. SPOILER ALERT: The sava board represents the mortal realm, with the pieces on it being the players' mortal pawns/champions. Lolth and Eilistraee are the two players who move openly against each other. Vhaerun and Selvetarm died, each by the hand of Eilistraee (herself/champion). The scene where Lolth crushed Selvetarm til his head popped off was not the actual death of the demi-god. It was a representation of what truly happened. Remember the scene where the Iron Fortress of Lolth stood by while Selvetarm got his head wacked off by Cavatina? Lolth could have saved him, but did not. Indirectly, Lolth did kill her grandson; by doing nothing to save him. Lolth does not take failure lightly, nor weakness. I love Eilistraee, and am a bit nervous as to what will happen to her. She obviously absorbed her brother's portfolios, but the last sentence of the novel sounded ominous. Is Vhaerun truly dead? Makes me wonder ... As for the Crescent Blade. It is obviously tainted by Lolth. Did anyone notice the change in its identifying runes? The last line where the 2 pieces of the once-broken blade reconnected says: "I will n... fail you.". If a holy weapon of light is reforged magically, it should fit back together seamlessly. If it is indeed Lolth's weapon now, then she COULD have been Selvetarm's true killer. Lolth seemed to have lost her champion piece, but could she now have her mandibles in one of Eilistraee's sava piece without her knowing? I smell spider offal. I agree that one of Lolth's rivals would gain power to keep the competition strong, and it is obviously Eilistraee. Her bid for succeeded. For now anyway.
Paledrow 02-06-07, 06:29 PM	Its entirely possible that Vhaeraun allowed himself to be absorbed in an elaborate plot against Lolth....He may not really be dead.
Kentinal 02-06-07, 11:16 PM	I see the Boards are far less W3C complient then even before. To topic: The first book appears to be contrived based on all reviews I have seen about it. A Drow Shaking event might be occuring, however it appears unlikely that the duaghter will in the end become greater then now. Mr. Greenwood has offered the opinion that Lolth will always be the most powerful deity of the Drow and while his belief is not always followed it is strongly repected when dealing with Realm events.
ywhtptgtfo 02-07-07, 11:18 AM	There are three other things we need keep watch on as well: 1) Eillistraee is planning to strike from the shadow next. Shadow is obviously Vhaeraun's domain. Is she corrupted or subsumed by Vhaeraun? It is yet to be revealed. 2) The Lady Penitent has not been completely honest with Eilistraee's faithful. The extent of her loyalty of Lolth is presumbly much greater than what she appears to show. 3) There are hints about Cavatina being slowly corrupted by her power, jealousy, and rage.
Paledrow 02-07-07, 03:22 PM	And...the very fact that the powers of the Vhaeraunite clerics seem to be in conflict with themselves also hints at a conflict within Eilistraee also.
Zanan 02-07-07, 06:58 PM	P.S: How do I mark out spoilers and read spoilers? I looked through the faqs and all the forum settings and can't find it. :( Much like Quoting or Bolding or Italicizing, you write (Spoiler) and (/Spoiler) in front and after the text - obviously using the square brackets [ ... ]. Thus, the text will be pitched in black. To read it, move the mouse cursor over the darkened text and keep the left mouse button pressed, just as if you want to "mark" the txt.
Dxzauvrinn 02-08-07, 02:44 AM	I wonder what's going to happen to Selvetarm's portfolio now that he's dead? Does anyone think Cavatina is going to be the new drow god of battle?
Zanan 02-08-07, 12:43 PM	Well, from how I see it, Cavatina is more CN than CG already.
Vulpes 02-11-07, 07:45 PM	Poor Selvetarm. I always had hopes for him. I wonder if Sharess "felt" him die and if she cares. Did she ever think of Zadilar's son? Did she ever contemplate helping him break free from Lolth as she broke free from Shar? Something is totally up with Cavatina and the Cresent Blade. She's headed for a Fall, I think. I don't quite think Vhaeraun's gone. I also don't think Kiaranselaee and Ghaunadaur are gonna just sit back and not try to influence the game in some way. But, in the end, I just can't see them killing off either Lolth or Eilisteraee. I know the whole "good drow" thing is controversial, but I think it has it's place and, as such, has a place for its goddess. By the same token, what would the drow be without Lolth? I guess that's why we'll have to read, to see what happens. I'm very intrigued. Fairly good news: we won't have to wait too, too long for the next book. As of right now, it's scheduled for September.
Poison_Dusk 02-12-07, 08:52 PM	Quick question, sorry for off topic. Are any of the other characters from WotSQ mentioned?
Zireael 02-13-07, 01:35 AM	I think no, because the only four that survived are Quenthel, Danifae (as Lloth), Valas and Halisstra.
Zanan 02-13-07, 03:55 AM	Quick question, sorry for off topic. Are any of the other characters from WotSQ mentioned? Well, Lady Penitent aside, the most prominent character re-appearing is Halisstra's brother Q'arlynd. He's the one who fell down in the clutches of the iron golem when the group was escaping Ched Nasad ... but he managed to teleport away before hitting the ground.
Poison_Dusk 02-13-07, 09:13 AM	Damn, I was hoping to hear more of some of the 'villians'. Like nimor, kaanyr, and Aliisza. Well thanks anyway.
ywhtptgtfo 02-13-07, 09:25 PM	Maybe Shar killed both Ellistraee and Vhaeraun :D
Zireael 02-14-07, 01:36 AM	Shar? I would rather say Selvetarm. Shar has nothing with most drow.
Paledrow 02-14-07, 09:09 AM	It just occured to me and seems so obvious now... Maybe Cavatina didn't didn't do anything, maybe the blade did... :eek: Everyone keeps pointing out how Cavatina killed a god, but also that only gods can kill gods. Possibly the Crecent Blade was a god disquised as a blade. That is Mask's M.O. isn't it? He did it in the avatar series and he is also hungry for Vhaeraun's portfolio. Possibly he has teamed up with Eilistraee ? Possibly Mask is behind the scenes here helping Eilistraee.And for his help, she will hand over the portfolio when she is done using it since she probably does'nt want it anyway.
QuenthelsChampion 02-14-07, 12:29 PM	In the WotSQ series Halisstra had the blade and she was going to kill Lolth but failed. So it must be the blade. The blade is an artifact. Most likely can kill anything i suppose. Thats just my 2 cents.
Dxzauvrinn 02-14-07, 01:31 PM	Actually, I think there was a quote in the novel where Cavatina said "I killed a god" and the blade said "I killed a god." I don't have the book on me right now (at work), but I'll look it up when I get home.
BrennonGoldeye 02-14-07, 01:40 PM	Quite a headache reading out this thread... Very very interesting though. I offer that M and V are the same. Any thoughts?:)
Paledrow 02-14-07, 01:43 PM	I am really starting to think V is the sword.
ywhtptgtfo 02-14-07, 05:14 PM	Then that would imply V conspired with E.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-14-07, 06:49 PM	Two things help her when she does her 'thang'. Because Chaos is in her nature, she receives some power from her worshippers constant fighting. Also, the killing of one's worshippers to GAIN power is a tried and true tradition amongst 'evil' deities (or at least those conceived of as 'evil' by others). I look at it this way, Gods use scrifice (the killing of or death of one's own worshippers) as a temporary power boost. Game-mechanic wise, this means a God will get all the worship-power that that individual would have provided during his/her lifetime, but all in one shot. The upside of this is that you get a quickie power-boost if you kill thousands of worshippers, as Cyric did, but there are two down sides. First and most important, you lose worshippers that you can't replace in the long run, and second, you only get the power that that particular sacrifice was worth at the time of death. e.i, killing a 2nd wizard will give all the power the average 2nd level mortal would generate in a normal lifetime, but you lose out on any potential he or she might have had. Had they not died, and gone on to be 30th level archmage and a chosen of their god, then all that eventual worship-power would have gone to waste. We need to come up with a better term then Worship-power. maybe Worship-juice? Worshipper Provided Energies (WPE's)? Since there is no actual game-mechanic for it, it doesn't really matter. It just makes me feel better when I can put things into 'quantified' rules. It helps me sleep at night. ;) You’re thinking of Bane. Bane used up his worshipers this way. At Shadowdale and then he used up Bhaals worshipers with the help of Myrkul in Tantras. She simply shouldn’t be any more powerfull. Denying her worshipers spells and allowing whole cities to be destroyed should reduce her power. But lets say for the moment that se has gained more power. She must have used it all up to move her home out of the demon web and creating that new plane she lives on.
Paledrow 02-14-07, 09:12 PM	Then that would imply V conspired with E. That was the conclusion I was pondering also. It does make sense after all. Its not implausable.
BrennonGoldeye 02-14-07, 09:53 PM	Conspired with E? How about has been conspiring with E. Is conspiring with E. Will be conspiring with E. Siblings of two amazing Ps. Who knew.:)
Zireael 02-15-07, 01:45 AM	Hah... two Ps. What was that meaning? M is Mask, V is Vhaeraun, E is Eilistraee, but Ps?
Paledrow 02-15-07, 01:48 PM	P=Parents? :) Well yes, it seems almost obvious now after all the speculation that V is conspiring with E and that V may be the sword. His putting his ownself out almost stupidly to be captured in the sava game now makes sense too. That would explain a hell of a lot and also would give great hope to those of us who are holding a torch for V. But if V is the Sword , and claims he killed S, then does he gain S's portfolio? or would C be given that option by L? (ala Avatar series : Cyric) ? That would be a portfolio paradox for V would it not?
BrianCritchley 02-15-07, 02:41 PM	I think no, because the only four that survived are Quenthel, Danifae (as Lloth), Valas and Halisstra. Valas I could see popping up later. Quenthel... less so. now Phaerun could pop up later but not in this series. check the link provided in the thread I started on the planes getting some potential more detail in the people and places board.
BrennonGoldeye 02-16-07, 09:51 AM	P=Parents? :) Well yes, it seems almost obvious now after all the speculation that V is conspiring with E and that V may be the sword. His putting his ownself out almost stupidly to be captured in the sava game now makes sense too. That would explain a hell of a lot and also would give great hope to those of us who are holding a torch for V. But if V is the Sword , and claims he killed S, then does he gain S's portfolio? or would C be given that option by L? (ala Avatar series : Cyric) ? That would be a portfolio paradox for V would it not? Yes, parents. I'm holding out hope that maybe S will be brought back to the way He was before the whole spider demon thing. Working on a plotline in my "Novel" group for just that. Was thinking about replacing the spider with dragon, maybe prismatic at that.:D
Lord Karsus 02-19-07, 05:00 PM	Shar? I would rather say Selvetarm. Shar has nothing with most drow. -It has been stated that Shar is/has been slowly encroaching on Lolth's territory. Though, I agree with the above mentioned theory that E and V have been conspiring against their P, L. -Perhaps, E and V will become one deity? I recall it being stressed that Eilistraee had only female priestess', and that Vhaeraun had only male priests. Both stressed that Drow needed to be united. Perhaps Eilistraee and Vhaeraun have come to some sort of agreement to meld themselves, allow the Drow of the surface to come under "one ruler", to overthrow Lolth's tyranny. -And, for some strange reason, I feel bad for Selvetarm. I never thought he had much personality, and I always thought he was kind of useless, but I feel bad for the big ol' lug, now.
BrennonGoldeye 02-19-07, 08:13 PM	-Perhaps, E and V will become one deity? I recall it being stressed that Eilistraee had only female priestess', and that Vhaeraun had only male priests. Both stressed that Drow needed to be united. Perhaps Eilistraee and Vhaeraun have come to some sort of agreement to meld themselves, allow the Drow of the surface to come under "one ruler", to overthrow Lolth's tyranny. Indubitably.:elf:
Paledrow 02-20-07, 12:56 PM	- -Perhaps, E and V will become one deity? . I actually have been tossing around the idea of this possibility also and I would not be against it. It would add more personality to the blandness that is E and add more popularity to the underdeveloped V. I would suppose ,although, that this would change the new god's alignment. Would the new god be good , or neutral? (I doubt evil in any sense since WotC seems to be anti evil in thier predilections towards the end game winners in any strife). This whole thing could actually create a god that can be a real tangible threat to Lolth's domain as opposed to the token threat they are at the moment.
Lord Karsus 02-20-07, 02:50 PM	I actually have been tossing around the idea of this possibility also and I would not be against it. It would add more personality to the blandness that is E and add more popularity to the underdeveloped V. I would suppose ,although, that this would change the new god's alignment. Would the new god be good , or neutral? (I doubt evil in any sense since WotC seems to be anti evil in thier predilections towards the end game winners in any strife). This whole thing could actually create a god that can be a real tangible threat to Lolth's domain as opposed to the token threat they are at the moment. -I would say that the deity [E+V] would be a Chaotic Good deity, to oppose Lolth and her Chaotic Evil hoardes.
Sporadicus 02-23-07, 02:37 AM	Regarding novum ideas on mortals becoming deities through their own strength as posted by Zanan. Au contraire, Zanan. Finder, in the Finder's Stone Trilogy, had helped kill Moander and usurped his power to become a very minor deity. It's a fair series that introduced a character or two that were lost to FR history - Alias the Simulacrum and Dragonbait the Lizardman.
Dark_beebles 02-23-07, 04:46 AM	I think V is E, no alliances or anything. The sword sounded had a more like V then then E or L. 2nd, he was in the demonweb pits as well remember? When the `loths attacked he was roaming the plane..so that is how the sword was reforged. 3rd, His wizard took himself so he could take out E. And disguise himself as her. Its why she got the mask and the dirk. And why his clerics were casting moonfire..He has to deny his own clerics spells or at least twist them like that to pretend to be dead to L. 4th, So his Wizard, took himself...and his sword...helped take Selv. My bet is that he set up Selv to die by having Lolth risk Selv's sava knight piece. So he set up the attack to have his sword take selvs head. ANd his wizard set E up..Remember Q(hal's bro) isnt actually a E worshipper.....Could you say..a chosen of V but unknowning?(who knows just a option). So, I think V is E by tricking Both E and their P L, He is pretending to be E using the Mask and dirk, allowing his clerics to cast "profane" moonfire spells. In order to trick L. ooooo how delisiously evil...I think V is gonna say "victory is mine" before its all said and done. At least thats what i think...or rather hope is the case. Lolth just reminds me of Bane...There..dont do much...fails alot and is a dust bunny that should be swept under the carpet...K could easily take her place. Drow are fixed with Vengeance and could have them allied to....counter maybe the Myth drannor now?
Lord Karsus 02-23-07, 12:21 PM	Finder, in the Finder's Stone Trilogy, had helped kill Moander and usurped his power to become a very minor deity. It's a fair series that introduced a character or two that were lost to FR history - Alias the Simulacrum and Dragonbait the Lizardman. -Finder Wyvernspur was aided by Tymora. He didn't actually do it himself (fully). Also, Dragonbait was a Saurial, and not a Lizardman. Remember Q(hal's bro) isnt actually a E worshipper.....Could you say..a chosen of V but unknowning?(who knows just a option). -I, actually, think the opposite. I think that Q will, in time, come to worship E. I think that H is actually the one who will betray E, and her brother, Q, will be the one who aids E. -Why are we talking in code, again? :)
QuenthelsChampion 02-23-07, 12:35 PM	Vhaerun is dead. He isn't that smart and he was absorbed by Elis so she can finally match up to the power of Lolth or close to it. I think Q and H will both probally either die or one of them will die where the other serves Elis. This book series is going to cut out a lot of characters by the time its over. I can feel it. Oh i have a question for those who read it too. When the male cleric took the priestesses soul and was going to rape her who killed him? He said Seyll and then it said Elis spit on him. Did she come out of no where and kill him or what?
JRBlasingame 02-23-07, 02:58 PM	-Finder Wyvernspur was aided by Tymora. He didn't actually do it himself (fully). Also, Dragonbait was a Saurial, and not a Lizardman. -I, actually, think the opposite. I think that Q will, in time, come to worship E. I think that H is actually the one who will betray E, and her brother, Q, will be the one who aids E. -Why are we talking in code, again? :) seems all gods now just use the First letter of thier respective names..so Tymora should be refered as "T". Now what you would call Tyr or Torm etc ect...well this "name game" hasn't evolved that far yet. PS: you would be known as "K" or "R" (for big ROCK)...LOL. PSS: I thought of another one "F" (for Free-faller)
Lord Karsus 02-23-07, 11:19 PM	seems all gods now just use the First letter of thier respective names..so Tymora should be refered as "T". Now what you would call Tyr or Torm etc ect...well this "name game" hasn't evolved that far yet. -Astute observation. Let's hope it doesn't get that far, though...;) PS: you would be known as "K" or "R" (for big ROCK)...LOL. PSS: I thought of another one "F" (for Free-faller) :ahem: -You think you're real funny, don't you...
Paledrow 02-26-07, 05:22 PM	seems all gods now just use the First letter of thier respective names..so Tymora should be refered as "T". Now what you would call Tyr or Torm etc ect...well this "name game" hasn't evolved that far yet. PS: you would be known as "K" or "R" (for big ROCK)...LOL. PSS: I thought of another one "F" (for Free-faller) I think people are using first letters because it is WAY easier then to keep typing out names with rather bizzare spellings. Tyr, Tymora and Torm etc. are both easy to spell and would likely not come into the conversation of this thread as they have nothing to do with it. :D I know I hate spelling out Drow pantheon god names over and over....
Paledrow 02-26-07, 05:37 PM	I think V is E, no alliances or anything. The sword sounded had a more like V then then E or L. 2nd, he was in the demonweb pits as well remember? When the `loths attacked he was roaming the plane..so that is how the sword was reforged. 3rd, His wizard took himself so he could take out E. And disguise himself as her. Its why she got the mask and the dirk. And why his clerics were casting moonfire..He has to deny his own clerics spells or at least twist them like that to pretend to be dead to L. 4th, So his Wizard, took himself...and his sword...helped take Selv. My bet is that he set up Selv to die by having Lolth risk Selv's sava knight piece. So he set up the attack to have his sword take selvs head. ANd his wizard set E up..Remember Q(hal's bro) isnt actually a E worshipper.....Could you say..a chosen of V but unknowning?(who knows just a option). So, I think V is E by tricking Both E and their P L, He is pretending to be E using the Mask and dirk, allowing his clerics to cast "profane" moonfire spells. In order to trick L. ooooo how delisiously evil...I think V is gonna say "victory is mine" before its all said and done. At least thats what i think...or rather hope is the case. Lolth just reminds me of Bane...There..dont do much...fails alot and is a dust bunny that should be swept under the carpet...K could easily take her place. Drow are fixed with Vengeance and could have them allied to....counter maybe the Myth drannor now? I would surely hope this is the case, but sadly I think its not. You must keep in mind that WotC has a proven track record of killing evil deities on a whim and even goody demigods are rather impossible to kill. Its just Greenwoods way: "All goodly types are born smart and lucky and always escape death no matter the odds (or until 7+ books are written about them). All evils no matter how powerful tend to stumble into death like bumbling fools(I.E. V and S and even Bane and his buddies in the Avatar trilogy) or their plans fail no matter what the odds are in their favor. Or they will live but their plans will be foiled somehow by some goody who by all odds should never have foiled the plan."....its sadly predictable sometimes. Sometimes I think WotC sends a block diagram out to their authors of "approved possible plotline routes" and all of them lead to good wins evil loses. I fear mostly that all the ponderings we have come up with in this thread and the like will be much more complicated and interesting then what is really going to happen. Typical Cliche' storyline prediction that we don't want but probably will happen: "V really was killed uncerimoniously like a bumbling idiot with no further discussion on why or how, E will prevail against all odds gaining ground and Lolth will lose the battle but not the war , to return again one day. Another evil drow god starts to rise in the background plotting their own rise to power. H is redeemed, Q creates a new organization of evil... etc.etc..." Overall , I think this thread and the threads like it are a subconscious plea to the author that she please not make it the predictable, cliche' storyline we fear it might be and to stop killing off gods that they underestimate the popularity of (I.E. Vhauraun). To wittle the drow story line down to simple good VS evil would be a travesty.
Paledrow 02-26-07, 06:23 PM	Vhaerun is dead. He isn't that smart and he was absorbed by Elis so she can finally match up to the power of Lolth or close to it. I think Q and H will both probally either die or one of them will die where the other serves Elis. This book series is going to cut out a lot of characters by the time its over. I can feel it. Oh i have a question for those who read it too. When the male cleric took the priestesses soul and was going to rape her who killed him? He said Seyll and then it said Elis spit on him. Did she come out of no where and kill him or what? Just because you don't like V doesn't make him stupid or dead. If you read the original WotSQ series you would get a better insight to his personality and see that he was neither stupid nor insignificant.
Lord Karsus 02-26-07, 06:34 PM	Just because you don't like V doesn't make him stupid or dead. If you read the original WotSQ series you would get a better insight to his personality and see that he was neither stupid nor insignificant. -Well, according to Demihuman Deities , the avatar of Vhaeraun has an INT of 20. Twenty is certainly not stupid. Eilistraee's avatar has an INT of 21. -That's a little silly if you ask me, since Vhaeraun was always the scheming one, while Eilistraee seemed to accept everything at face value (see her actions in Evermeet: Island of Elves). Or, would that be WIS, and not INT?
Paledrow 02-26-07, 07:49 PM	-Well, according to Demihuman Deities , the avatar of Vhaeraun has an INT of 20. Twenty is certainly not stupid. Eilistraee's avatar has an INT of 21. -That's a little silly if you ask me, since Vhaeraun was always the scheming one, while Eilistraee seemed to accept everything at face value (see her actions in Evermeet: Island of Elves). Or, would that be WIS, and not INT? Exactly my point. Well said.
Zireael 02-27-07, 09:10 AM	But E isn't stupid. She just doesn't want to plot.
Paledrow 02-27-07, 02:47 PM	I think he means E is naive due to her overly trusting nature.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-27-07, 03:06 PM	I never understood why Loth suffered any of her children to live whether they were smart or stupid? Her priestesses sure don’t suffer rival clerics to live!
Lord Karsus 02-27-07, 06:08 PM	I think he means E is naive due to her overly trusting nature. -Exactly. Again, look at what happened to her in the opening chapters of Evermeet: Island of Elves. I never understood why Loth suffered any of her children to live whether they were smart or stupid? Her priestesses sure don’t suffer rival clerics to live! -Back then, when her children were "born", she was Araushnee, not Lolth. She couldn't of killed her children then- Corellon Larethian would have never allowed it. After she was stripped of her divinity, her children actually were more powerful than her, since they already had a foothold on Faerûn. And, since regaining her divinity, and becomming the Lolth we all know...who knows why she hasn't tried to outright exterminate Vhaeraun. Eilistraee has allies in the Seldarine, but Vhaeraun does not.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 12:57 AM	-Exactly. Again, look at what happened to her in the opening chapters of Evermeet: Island of Elves. -Back then, when her children were "born", she was Araushnee, not Lolth. She couldn't of killed her children then- Corellon Larethian would have never allowed it. After she was stripped of her divinity, her children actually were more powerful than her, since they already had a foothold on Faerûn. And, since regaining her divinity, and becomming the Lolth we all know...who knows why she hasn't tried to outright exterminate Vhaeraun. Eilistraee has allies in the Seldarine, but Vhaeraun does not. Her divine power combined with K and S’s maybe even G’s she should have not problem killing V. Unless he has other divine protectors in the Pantheon not previously documented!
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 03:17 PM	Her divine power combined with K and S’s maybe even G’s she should have not problem killing V. Unless he has other divine protectors in the Pantheon not previously documented! -Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, and to a lesser degree, Selvetarm all hated Lolth as much- if not more- than Vhaeraun. This is what makes the Anti-Seldarine so unique. Though they are a pantheon- they all share common worshippers- they all hate each other.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 03:27 PM	-Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, and to a lesser degree, Selvetarm all hated Lolth as much- if not more- than Vhaeraun. This is what makes the Anti-Seldarine so unique. Though they are a pantheon- they all share common worshippers- they all hate each other. Yeah you think Loth could bully them into ganging up on a particular annoying deity like V.
BrennonGoldeye 02-28-07, 03:41 PM	-Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, and to a lesser degree, Selvetarm all hated Lolth as much- if not more- than Vhaeraun. This is what makes the Anti-Seldarine so unique. Though they are a pantheon- they all share common worshippers- they all hate each other. Which is why I believe that Nee Nee(I believe I first heard this nickname used by Shevarash and Avachel at a Tulani wedding) is in for a rude surprise.:elf:
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 06:06 PM	Which is why I believe that Nee Nee(I believe I first heard this nickname used by Shevarash and Avachel at a Tulani wedding) is in for a rude surprise.:elf: -Why were Shevarash and Avachel hanging out? The Mercury Wyrm and the Black Archer really don't seem like they'd get along.
BrennonGoldeye 02-28-07, 08:56 PM	-Why were Shevarash and Avachel hanging out? The Mercury Wyrm and the Black Archer really don't seem like they'd get along. You know, Shevi is an ex of the bride, Avachel just loves to gossip. By the end of it all I have no doubt ole Webby-butt was irate. Have you ever seen a Fey reception? That's when they throw the bachellor party. Antlers were everywhere. Only at a wedding my dear friend, only at a wedding.:D
BrianCritchley 03-01-07, 03:19 AM	-Well, according to Demihuman Deities , the avatar of Vhaeraun has an INT of 20. Twenty is certainly not stupid. Eilistraee's avatar has an INT of 21. -That's a little silly if you ask me, since Vhaeraun was always the scheming one, while Eilistraee seemed to accept everything at face value (see her actions in Evermeet: Island of Elves). Or, would that be WIS, and not INT? Int doesn't mean you can't be naive, that'd fall udner wisdom, sides she's had 30 thousand years since that little event, I imagine she's wised up some since then vhaerun and lolth, well did they ever admit they even MADE a mistake, or did they simply blame their misfortunes on corellian etc. one self improves by learning from their mistakes and quite frankly I have my doubts as to weather or not vhaerun and lolth have much ability in that regard
Lord Karsus 03-01-07, 09:22 AM	one self improves by learning from their mistakes and quite frankly I have my doubts as to weather or not vhaerun and lolth have much ability in that regard -Well, they haven't tried to kill Corellon Larethian and break up the Seldarine in quite a few thousand years, so maybe they have learned something.
Zanan 03-01-07, 12:33 PM	Just in case ... regarding people thinking how Vhaeraun might have outsmarted Eilistraee. According to what we know, Eilistraee was warned and while people more often than not associate her with moonlight dancing et al, she is a excellent hunter as well. Now imagine a ranger supreme waiting on her own soil for the stalking rogue ... (and expect that she's not exactly alone at home.)
Jax_Nightstalker 03-01-07, 01:07 PM	I have to agree. You can't just run up in somebody's house thinking you are about to take over the place. And if the person was warned that you were coming common sense says you are a dead man. Yes E is a good hunter and a awesome swordswoman. I still don't care for her because I always thought she was (is) to passive and even navie. Yes a person can wise up after thousands of years but I still don't put much stock in this drow goddess. She should have been put in the dead book a long time ago, but I see she offered a balance to the drow race.
Alediran 03-01-07, 02:15 PM	I have to agree. You can't just run up in somebody's house thinking you are about to take over the place. And if the person was warned that you were coming common sense says you are a dead man. Yes E is a good hunter and a awesome swordswoman. I still don't care for her because I always thought she was (is) to passive and even navie. Yes a person can wise up after thousands of years but I still don't put much stock in this drow goddess. She should have been put in the dead book a long time ago, but I see she offered a balance to the drow race. Corellon would never allow her favourite child to be harmed.
Jax_Nightstalker 03-01-07, 02:36 PM	Corellon would never allow her favourite child to be harmed. LOL!!! Corellon Larethian and the rest of the Elven gods are to busy smelling flowers and singing joy to the world to care what happens to Eliistraee. The Elven gods are not as active to care what is going on in the Drow Pantheon. If they were they would have taken full advantage of Lloths silence to make some moves of their own against here followers. NO they were to busy tree huggin to care! So if Corellon cared so much about his daughter he would have or would have had another elven god help her through her struggles with the rest of the drow gods.
Alediran 03-01-07, 04:04 PM	LOL!!! Corellon Larethian and the rest of the Elven gods are to busy smelling flowers and singing joy to the world to care what happens to Eliistraee. The Elven gods are not as active to care what is going on in the Drow Pantheon. If they were they would have taken full advantage of Lloths silence to make some moves of their own against here followers. NO they were to busy tree huggin to care! So if Corellon cared so much about his daughter he would have or would have had another elven god help her through her struggles with the rest of the drow gods. Still much to learn, young padawan. Obviously Corellon wouldn't interfere with Eilistraee's life because it's not his way, what I was refering is that if Eilistraee's life where to be ended, Corellon would jump to save her life. She is like the daughter who recently whent to live by her own.
Zanan 03-01-07, 05:55 PM	Still much to learn, young padawan. Obviously Corellon wouldn't interfere with Eilistraee's life because it's not his way, what I was refering is that if Eilistraee's life where to be ended, Corellon would jump to save her life. She is like the daughter who recently whent to live by her own. Padawhat? Anyway, what Lolth does in her own Realm and on her own plane is beyond Corellon's might. IF he actually knows what is going on. BTW, Lady Penitent presents the Eilistraeens in a very realistic way, i.e. how I always expected them to be. Not those fairy-tale all-caring naked dancers ...
Ioulaum 03-01-07, 11:09 PM	Padawhat? Anyway, what Lolth does in her own Realm and on her own plane is beyond Corellon's might. IF he actually knows what is going on. BTW, Lady Penitent presents the Eilistraeens in a very realistic way, i.e. how I always expected them to be. Not those fairy-tale all-caring naked dancers ... In this case E was on her own plane. and E has a lot of friends and allies.
BrianCritchley 03-01-07, 11:31 PM	In this case E was on her own plane. and E has a lot of friends and allies. elistraee's homeplan isn't the demonwebpits. my guess is it's actually a demi-plane connected to arvandor. part of the realm but.. seperate.
Meldread 03-01-07, 11:39 PM	Eilistraee isn't the only one with allies. Vhaeraun has allies as well. Sure, they're less reliable, but they're allies all the same. He is/was allied with Mask, Shar and Talona.
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 12:35 AM	BTW, Lady Penitent presents the Eilistraeens in a very realistic way, i.e. how I always expected them to be. Not those fairy-tale all-caring naked dancers ... -A little too excessive on the use of Resurrection, for my taste. Seems to me that people were being brought back from the dead left and right. elistraee's homeplan isn't the demonwebpits. my guess is it's actually a demi-plane connected to arvandor. part of the realm but.. seperate. -Offically, she maintains a Realm in the Demonweb Pits, and a Realm in Arvandor. Sure, they're less reliable, but they're allies all the same. He is/was allied with Mask, Shar and Talona. -Less reliable is definitley an understatement. Both Mask and Shar probably would love to subsume Vhaeraun. I don't know why Talona is mixed in there, but I'm sure she wouldn't risk too much to pull his fat from the fire, either.
Zanan 03-02-07, 04:54 AM	Eilistraee isn't the only one with allies. Vhaeraun has allies as well. Sure, they're less reliable, but they're allies all the same. He is/was allied with Mask, Shar and Talona. According to what we know, the Masked One entered Eilistraee's realm alone ...
Meldread 03-02-07, 06:49 AM	Yeah, it's definitely an understatement. I haven't read the books and probably won't, although they sound somewhat interesting. I have a tendency to dislike how the Forgotten Realm's Authors in general portray evil deities and beings as stupid and incompetent fools, making bumbling mistakes that any reasonably intelligent mortal (let alone a deity) wouldn't make. Personally, though I think Shar would prefer to use Vhaeraun to kill Mask so she can get the portfolio of Shadow that she covets so much, and then use him as a way to spread her influence to the Drow. It somewhat irks me that Shar has the Underdark portfolio and isn't making use of it, and it will **** me off if Lolth challenges her for that portfolio and wins. I like Lolth to an extent, but if she challenges Shar I hope Shar beats the eight legged freak back down to demi-god. ;) Of course, if Vhaeraun is dead I could easily see Shar impersonating him to gain his followers. That would be amusing. Let Eilistraee do the dirty work of getting rid of him, then just take his place.
QuenthelsChampion 03-02-07, 12:19 PM	Just because you don't like V doesn't make him stupid or dead. If you read the original WotSQ series you would get a better insight to his personality and see that he was neither stupid nor insignificant. I did read WotSQ. Hence my name. I have all of them on Hardcover. and Vhaerun though he did do some nice things in the series ultimately failed. Stopped by Selvetarm at Lolths gate and then his worshippers stopped in Menzo when Lolth returned. I would like Vhaerun if he planned a good counter-plan if A fails. Every time i read about him it just looks like he messes up then poofs away for another idea. It might not make him stupid if i dont like him, *spolier* but to have Elis wearing his mask and his own worshippers saying quote "hes dead" points that he is in fact dead. That and the "corruption" of the priestly powers given to his worshippers. Some say it may be a trick we won't know for sure but Elis planning an attack on Lolth from the shadows says otherwise. Unless Vhaerun is infact Elis which i doubt because Vhaerun is too haughty and proud to pretend to be a female, and fool his mother. QC
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 12:23 PM	but to have Elis wearing his mask and his own worshippers saying quote "hes dead" points that he is in fact dead. That and the "corruption" of the priestly powers given to his worshippers. Some say it may be a trick we won't know for sure but Elis planning an attack on Lolth from the shadows says otherwise. Unless Vhaerun is infact Elis which i doubt because Vhaerun is too haughty and proud to pretend to be a female, and fool his mother. -You just disproved your own point. And, why would Vhaeraun be "too proud" to disguise himself as Eilistraee? A thief needs to use the best disguise for the situation, or risk being uncovered.
JRBlasingame 03-02-07, 03:10 PM	I did read WotSQ. Hence my name. I have all of them on Hardcover. and Vhaerun though he did do some nice things in the series ultimately failed. Stopped by Selvetarm at Lolths gate and then his worshippers stopped in Menzo when Lolth returned. I would like Vhaerun if he planned a good counter-plan if A fails. Every time i read about him it just looks like he messes up then poofs away for another idea. It might not make him stupid if i dont like him, *spolier* but to have Elis wearing his mask and his own worshippers saying quote "hes dead" points that he is in fact dead. That and the "corruption" of the priestly powers given to his worshippers. Some say it may be a trick we won't know for sure but Elis planning an attack on Lolth from the shadows says otherwise. Unless Vhaerun is infact Elis which i doubt because Vhaerun is too haughty and proud to pretend to be a female, and fool his mother. QC You know my first thoughts on reading what that priest (who was turned to stone) said about "He's Dead"...was that he was talking about the Champoin of Lolth (Salv something or other). Remember he comes into the gathering with a recently bloodied knife, says something like "unfinished business" and then joins the group. He gets turned to stone, both deities "die", he gets turn back to flesh, and starts crying. Not sure why I thought that, but it was the first thing that popped into my head after reading it.
Paledrow 03-02-07, 03:30 PM	Just in case ... regarding people thinking how Vhaeraun might have outsmarted Eilistraee. According to what we know, Eilistraee was warned and while people more often than not associate her with moonlight dancing et al, she is a excellent hunter as well. Now imagine a ranger supreme waiting on her own soil for the stalking rogue ... (and expect that she's not exactly alone at home.) I don't think people are saying V tricked E. I think the general theory now is that V is in league with E in some way. I know all the V haters out there are hoping he truly is dead , but I am hoping he is not. He is indeed the God of trickery...
BrennonGoldeye 03-02-07, 09:19 PM	I don't think people are saying V tricked E. I think the general theory now is that V is in league with E in some way. I know all the V haters out there are hoping he truly is dead , but I am hoping he is not. He is indeed the God of trickery... Indeed.;)
Nocci 03-06-07, 01:59 PM	I haven't received my copy of Sacrifice of the Widow, but it has been ordered, so I'm not going to read the blacked-out things of this thread. I'm on the third book in the WotSQ series which I've had laying around for ages but haven't had time to read until now... I do know something about who dies and not in the Sacrifice book... thanks to Paledrow's journal... <.< ... and it's sad.. so sad.. On another note, like some have stated before in this thread. I, too, don't think Corellon would sit by idly if something horrible happened to Eilistraee. As far as I've understood (and the drow and elven pantheon are my favorites), he just isn't that kind of guy! :rolleyes: Also, I hope that V is just being tricksy in one way or another. :cool:
Alediran 03-06-07, 02:15 PM	*Casts sending* "LK, I think I've found a new recruit for the Elven Netbook"
Lord Karsus 03-06-07, 05:32 PM	*Casts sending* "LK, I think I've found a new recruit for the Elven Netbook" :: Recieves the Sending:: Oh, and who is that? And why do you think so?
Alediran 03-06-07, 07:17 PM	:: Recieves the Sending:: Oh, and who is that? And why do you think so? *Casts again* Is the one who posted just before me, she likes Tel'Quessir more than anything about FR, we could try recruiting her.
BrennonGoldeye 03-06-07, 09:46 PM	Not only that, but she's quite a cutie!:ayyyy!:
Nocci 03-07-07, 01:21 AM	*...looks generally cautious...*