Myrkul... playing a Cleric of a dead god. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Myrkul... playing a Cleric of a dead god. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Meldread
11-01-07, 06:46 AM With the servant of the fallen feat it is certainly possible to continue to worship a dead god. We know some of Myrkul's faithful still exist, and are hunting the Crown of Horns. However, with Myrkul effectively "dead" how does a priest conduct himself? The dogma and faith has become more or less irrelevant thanks to Kelemvor.

I am contemplating having Myrkul be resurrected and slay Velsharoon, Jergal and Kelemvor. He would then become the god of death, the dead, fatalism, necromancy and undeath.

A possible new dogma: "Know me and fear me. I will always find you, for my touch is for all and is both patient and sure. There is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me. Even as your mortal flesh withers and dies, I hold the key to life everlasting. Those who oppose me shall die the final death, but those who serve me well shall be rewarded with immortal life. Know that my touch comes for all, but it comes even sooner to those who speak against my name and my servants."
Suin Bahhar
11-01-07, 08:30 AM How would a cleric of a dead god act?

First start screaming the "Rise of Myrkul is nigh" to all who might listen. Gather enough followers to start the ceremony inside a forgotten temple of Myrkul and burn insense. Lots of it. Sacrifice a few symbols of death such as ravens, bloody orbs, skulls and some innocent bystanders and such, and break the Crown of Horns and hope Myrkul returns in a good mood.

When Myrkul has risen help him trick the old gods of necromancy, death and the dead and follow your new dogma and proceed to rule the world.
GothicDan
11-01-07, 09:05 AM How is his dogma irrelevant? Myrkul wasn't the type to preach theistic ultimates, but rather philosophies of existence.
Stigger
11-01-07, 09:42 AM I'd think that if they were clinging to the tenets of a dead faith, then the Dogma and tenets would be paramount, of absolute importance to the cleric... if you're going to go looking for new dogma and tenets, why would you serve a dead deity in the first place?
meto30
11-01-07, 12:43 PM NWN2: MotB features Myrkul and his faith. While NWN is hardly canon, its depiction of the dead god of the dead is quite interesting. The following is how he is shown in NWN2.

Myrkul, while dead, maintains his power and mind because there are still those who worship him. The hundreds of the priests of Myrkul that still walk Toril empower Myrkul by their sheer belief alone. Also, thousands of people who fear the dead god also feed Myrkul's power. Thus, while he is dead, he maintains a minimal amount of divine power, and while this is not enough to grant higher spells, he is capable of influencing the world, as some sort of a ghost god. Additionally, because his power is still maintained, his works still stand, most notably the Wall of the Faithless. If he were to truly vanish, then the Wall would fall with him, becuase the Wall is his creation.

Additional lore (spoiler warning):
By the time of NWN2:MotB, Myrkul's faith has dwindled into near nonexistence. Myrkul's strength now relies on two creations that still stand, the Wall of the Faithless and the Spirit Eater. When the player tears down the Wall and ends the curse of the Spirit Eater, Myrkul's power is finally undone and Myrkul fades away into nothingness.

Spirit Eater is what remains of Akachi the Betrayor. Akachi was a Rashemi high priest of Myrkul, and was a feared bringer of death. However, when his lover, a Red Wizard, was convicted of faithlessness and condemned to the Wall of the Faithless, Akachi sought out allies and with their combined power opened a portal to the fugue plane. This act is actually impossible, and only by divine favor awarded him by Myrkul was Akachi able to accomplish this. Thus, this 'Betrayal' was the ultimate blesphemy. Akachi tore down the wall and freed the soul of his lover, but was struck down by the enraged Myrkul. Myrkul had Akachi put into the Wall in the place of his loved, and then after a while tore him out before he faded into nothingness. Rid of his name, essence, personality, the Betrayor was made to walk Toril as a void of souls, to eternally hunger for spirits to fill his emptiness. He would possess a soul, and through the soul's body eat up other souls and spirits, until the host soul is itself consumed, at which point the Betrayer would find a new host.

The Betrayors' Curse is the main plot line of NWN2:MotB. And this effectively ends the NWN2 storyline, except when the player refuses to end the curse and simply expels the Betrayor from her soul.
Meldread
11-01-07, 03:40 PM This is the only dogma I have found for Myrkul.

"Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me."

It has a very strong focus on his portfolio of the dead. It was focused on him being the Lord of the Dead. Something of which everyone, including his priests, know that he is no longer. Therefore, carrying out their old duties such as conducting funerals doesn't make much sense. You know (and the people know) you're shipping those souls off to Kelemvor.

When deities lose important portfolio's like the dead, their dogma usually changes to reflect that. Myrkul is no longer at present the god of the dead, and thus is clergy should be reflecting that. They shouldn't be carrying on as if nothing happened. They all know he is dead, as does every other living person in Faerun.

Once Myrkul has returned and ascended once again, his dogma would change yet again to reflect the powers he has regained. That isn't a problem and easy to handle. The problem is being a priest of Myrkul in his current state.

Things to do:
1. Make people fear death and Myrkul.
2. Make people believe that the return of Myrkul is at hand.
3. Focus strongly on finding a way to return Myrkul above all other things.
4. Seek out and undermine Kelemvor, Cyric and their faithful at every opportunity.
GreenKnight
11-01-07, 11:41 PM Additionally, because his power is still maintained, his works still stand, most notably the Wall of the Faithless. If he were to truly vanish, then the Wall would fall with him, becuase the Wall is his creation.

I've played and beaten the game, and there is nothing indicating that the existence of the Wall keeps Myrkul from fading away entirely. And the final passing on of Myrkul doesn't affect the wall in the slightest.

Myrkul's strength now relies on two creations that still stand, the Wall of the Faithless and the Spirit Eater.

No, his power relies on the Spirit Eater, and the fear created by the Spirit Eater, and the mere mention of his name, and the fear people feel when his name is heard.

When the player tears down the Wall and ends the curse of the Spirit Eater, Myrkul's power is finally undone and Myrkul fades away into nothingness.

The game doesn't have the option to tear down the wall. Myrkul, however, DOES fade away if you end the curse of the Spirit Eater.

Akachi tore down the wall and freed the soul of his lover

He cut her from the wall, but he didn't tear it down. He TRIED to tear it down, but failed.

The Betrayors' Curse is the main plot line of NWN2:MotB. And this effectively ends the NWN2 storyline, except when the player refuses to end the curse and simply expels the Betrayor from her soul.

Actually, you can end the curse AND free yourself from it. That's the best ending, but it requires gathering up all the mask fragments, first.
meto30
11-02-07, 04:29 AM Actually, you can end the curse AND free yourself from it. That's the best ending, but it requires gathering up all the mask fragments, first.

So that's what they were for! Dang, I have to clear the game again.

Can you PM me the locations of all the fragments? If you could I'd be thankful :)
GreenKnight
11-02-07, 07:29 AM So that's what they were for! Dang, I have to clear the game again.

Can you PM me the locations of all the fragments? If you could I'd be thankful :)

Done and done!

And you think that's bad? I started over the OC after beating the game. :weep: Why? Because Neeshka turned on me at the end, and I wanted to get enough Influence so that the next time she wouldn't turn. Fortunately for you, you can just go back to a save point prior to entering the Fugue Plane to rectify that mistake. It's easy enough getting the Mask Fragments once you know where they are.
meto30
11-02-07, 08:31 AM I too retried the whole original campaign because Neeshka turned on me.

And I tried again, again, and again to get both Qara and Sand on my team, and after realizing that they never both join me, I was ruined. :weep:
Meldread
11-02-07, 01:03 PM [Meldread sets meto30 and GreenKnight on fire for derailing his thread.]

Back to my topic, what would a cleric of Myrkul do now that Myrkul is no longer the god of the dead? This is a big and major shift, bigger than if Bane had lost the portfolio of tyranny or if Jergal had lost the portfolio of fatalism.

Imagine Kelemvor without the portfolio of the dead. He would not be the same deity. His role in the cosmology changes. This is what happened to Myrkul. His priests would not be carrying on as they were - they would change or convert. It is not a matter of belief that Myrkul is dead - they know he is dead for fact.

Therefore, does it make sense for Myrkul's remaining priests - the most hardcore of the hardcore - to reinterpret their faith to make the return (and ascension) of Myrkul its central tenet?

New Dogma: "Lord Myrkul is my Master, and most heartily do I serve him to the last shred of my very soul. My master is death's master. He is both patient and sure, for there is no door he cannot pass, no obstacle he cannot overcome, nor guardian who can stand in his way. Even as my mortal flesh withers and dies, asking nothing do I serve him in anticipation of his Return. Yet I serve with the sure and certain hope of life everlasting. I serve in the knowledge that the faithful shall be exalted above the unbelievers, and that those who oppose him shall die the final death. Swift come the day of Lord Myrkul's Return."

I can see the Church of Myrkul actively seeking ways to undermine Kelemvor in his position, from killing his priests, to diving head first into necromancy. The animating of the dead, and finding ways to prevent souls from going to the fugue (or stealing them from there) would be critical objectives. They would likely even go so far as to turn themselves into undead, in an attempt to achieve a sort of immortality and to prevent their soul from entering Kelemvor's realm.

Additionally, every priest who is capable would be searching for the Crown of Horns. In fact, the entire church would be laser focused on this effort I would imagine, as well as anything else they can think of that would speed up Myrkul's return and further empower him upon his ascension.

Am I wrong in thinking all of this?
Stigger
11-02-07, 05:36 PM No, sounds pretty reasonable actually.
GreenKnight
11-02-07, 07:01 PM I too retried the whole original campaign because Neeshka turned on me.

Apparently you need an extremely high Influence to keep her. The first time I had 10 Influence and she turned on me. I had 17 Influence the second time, and she stayed.

And I tried again, again, and again to get both Qara and Sand on my team, and after realizing that they never both join me, I was ruined. :weep:

Yeah, one of them always turns on you. It's just a quesiton of who. Personally, I'm glad Qara turned on me. Gave me the opportunity to kill her.

[Meldread sets meto30 and GreenKnight on fire for derailing his thread.]

Gah, who told you of my weakness? Geeze, douse me with acid, too, why don't ya?

Anyway, on the subject of Myrkul...

Am I wrong in thinking all of this?

Nope.

Back to my topic, what would a cleric of Myrkul do now that Myrkul is no longer the god of the dead? This is a big and major shift, bigger than if Bane had lost the portfolio of tyranny or if Jergal had lost the portfolio of fatalism.

Imagine Kelemvor without the portfolio of the dead. He would not be the same deity. His role in the cosmology changes. This is what happened to Myrkul. His priests would not be carrying on as they were - they would change or convert. It is not a matter of belief that Myrkul is dead - they know he is dead for fact.

You're absolutely right. When a god no longer possesses a Portfolio, he changes. Just look at Bane. He no longer holds the Portfolio of Strife, and as such, his church operates differently then it did prior to the Time of Troubles, and Bane himself operates differently. And that's just a small change. Take another god like Tyr. He's very different to who he is in the Asgardian Pantheon, as in Faerun he has the Portfolio of Justice, but in the Asgardian Pantheon, he's got a slew of other Portfolios.

Therefore, does it make sense for Myrkul's remaining priests - the most hardcore of the hardcore - to reinterpret their faith to make the return (and ascension) of Myrkul its central tenet?

Yeah, they'd probably focus on aspects currently unclaimed by other gods which would be appropriate for their lord.

As for Portfolios, aren't the Portfolios of Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk currently unclaimed? That'd make a nice set for a resurrected Myrkul. Wouldn't titles like "The Wasting Lord" and "The Lord of Dusk" sound appropriate for Myrkul? Not to mention that that'd put him in direct opposition to Lathander, who's God of Athletics, Youth, Vitality, and Dawn. And all those Portfolios, taken together, may be enough to make him a Greater God, again.

Once he's regained some of his godly power through those Portfolios, he can then kill Velsharoon and claim the Portfolios of Necromancy, Necromancers, Evil Liches, and Undeath. That would then also put him into direct opposition to Kelemvor. And if he wasn't a Greater God, before, then he will be one after claiming Velsharoon's Portfolios. So that's my personal wish, anyway. To see Myrkul resurrected and become a Greater God, again, becoming God of Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk, and maybe Necromancy, Necromancers, Evil Liches, and Undeath, too.
GreenKnight
11-03-07, 07:38 AM Hmm. Just downloaded the 1E campaign setting box (Haven't seen the thing in years. I never owned it but a friend did) and Myrkul possessed all the unclaimed Portfolios I mentioned above. So it really wouldn't require all that much change to the Myrkulite faith. Before he died, Myrkul held the following Portfolios:

the Dead
Wasting
Decay
Corruption
Parasites
Old Age
Dusk
Fall
Exhaustion

It'd be a simple enough matter to focus on the other aspects of Myrkul's faith, represented by the Portfolios which currently lay unclaimed. And while I don't really feel like going through a list of all the gods to make sure, I'm pretty certain that all of those Portfolios, save for the Portfolio of the Dead, currently lie unclaimed. If Myrkul were to be resurrected, then he could easily reclaim those Portfolios. And those Portfolios may be enough to push him to Greater God status by themselves.
Suin Bahhar
11-03-07, 09:31 AM I know at present Gargauth has the corruption portfolio.

Meldread, your new dogma sounds very evil and the clergy should watch out that more goodly and neutral factions will be opposing the Rise of Myrkul. Kelemvor has lots of allies and is well known by the simple folk of Fearun.
Pyrogen
11-03-07, 09:44 AM I believe Lolth has been trying to mussle in on the decay portfolio through her impersonation of Moander but not sure if she has been given it officially. Also not sure if a distinction has been drawn between rotting decay as part of the natural cycle of life and decay as something that is unwelcome, like cancer or some form of wasting disease.
GothicDan
11-03-07, 10:09 AM That would be Talona.

In my games, I'd make Talona a servant of Myrkul. Maybe a creepy, scarred wife-figure. A disease-ridden mummy.

Hot.
1 ton ghost
11-03-07, 02:40 PM realistically, i cannot see a sudden surge of power or worship. it's great as a plot hook and all, but there are too many independent variables working against Myrkul.
-one of Jergal's first duties, being staunchly LN, would be to advise Kelemvor to give them the old universal standby of "convert to the new way or die." the new law of the dead is pretty B/W so you basically have to "fall in line w/ the others" or meet oblivion.
-technically, they'd be the False since Myrkul's dead, right? so, failing to acknowledge, not necessarilly embrace Kelemvore's sovereignty of the dead a1nd worshiping Myrkul is major heresy.
-the wall may be a creation of Myrkul, but is ultimately maintained by the current god of the dead. guess he liked the idea so much he bought the company.
-Jergal and Kel' are kinda' obligated to offer some quarter given the highly structured and ordered sphere of influence of the dead. i'm sure plenty of Myrkul's faithful said, "damn, that sucks, but i'd like to keep my spells and mr. mysteri-o ambiance, so i'll convert." others maybe committed suicide, joined w/ Cyric, etc. though i'm sure there is alot of bitterness there. Kel and Jergal never officially dicked over Myrkul, they were just chosen simply.
-i'm sure they are still rehabbing old temples, dispelling old wives' tales, and trying to win the population over; time of troubles wasn't that long ago. so, yeah, there's probably many that still worship Myrkul, but the check is in the mail
-lastly, he's severely weakened; less LN gods will want to take advantage of this fact for their own selfish reasons. easier to take down this way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meldread 11-01-07, 06:46 AM	With the servant of the fallen feat it is certainly possible to continue to worship a dead god. We know some of Myrkul's faithful still exist, and are hunting the Crown of Horns. However, with Myrkul effectively "dead" how does a priest conduct himself? The dogma and faith has become more or less irrelevant thanks to Kelemvor. I am contemplating having Myrkul be resurrected and slay Velsharoon, Jergal and Kelemvor. He would then become the god of death, the dead, fatalism, necromancy and undeath. A possible new dogma: "Know me and fear me. I will always find you, for my touch is for all and is both patient and sure. There is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me. Even as your mortal flesh withers and dies, I hold the key to life everlasting. Those who oppose me shall die the final death, but those who serve me well shall be rewarded with immortal life. Know that my touch comes for all, but it comes even sooner to those who speak against my name and my servants."
Suin Bahhar 11-01-07, 08:30 AM	How would a cleric of a dead god act? First start screaming the "Rise of Myrkul is nigh" to all who might listen. Gather enough followers to start the ceremony inside a forgotten temple of Myrkul and burn insense. Lots of it. Sacrifice a few symbols of death such as ravens, bloody orbs, skulls and some innocent bystanders and such, and break the Crown of Horns and hope Myrkul returns in a good mood. When Myrkul has risen help him trick the old gods of necromancy, death and the dead and follow your new dogma and proceed to rule the world.
GothicDan 11-01-07, 09:05 AM	How is his dogma irrelevant? Myrkul wasn't the type to preach theistic ultimates, but rather philosophies of existence.
Stigger 11-01-07, 09:42 AM	I'd think that if they were clinging to the tenets of a dead faith, then the Dogma and tenets would be paramount, of absolute importance to the cleric... if you're going to go looking for new dogma and tenets, why would you serve a dead deity in the first place?
meto30 11-01-07, 12:43 PM	NWN2: MotB features Myrkul and his faith. While NWN is hardly canon, its depiction of the dead god of the dead is quite interesting. The following is how he is shown in NWN2. Myrkul, while dead, maintains his power and mind because there are still those who worship him. The hundreds of the priests of Myrkul that still walk Toril empower Myrkul by their sheer belief alone. Also, thousands of people who fear the dead god also feed Myrkul's power. Thus, while he is dead, he maintains a minimal amount of divine power, and while this is not enough to grant higher spells, he is capable of influencing the world, as some sort of a ghost god. Additionally, because his power is still maintained, his works still stand, most notably the Wall of the Faithless. If he were to truly vanish, then the Wall would fall with him, becuase the Wall is his creation. Additional lore (spoiler warning): By the time of NWN2:MotB, Myrkul's faith has dwindled into near nonexistence. Myrkul's strength now relies on two creations that still stand, the Wall of the Faithless and the Spirit Eater. When the player tears down the Wall and ends the curse of the Spirit Eater, Myrkul's power is finally undone and Myrkul fades away into nothingness. Spirit Eater is what remains of Akachi the Betrayor. Akachi was a Rashemi high priest of Myrkul, and was a feared bringer of death. However, when his lover, a Red Wizard, was convicted of faithlessness and condemned to the Wall of the Faithless, Akachi sought out allies and with their combined power opened a portal to the fugue plane. This act is actually impossible, and only by divine favor awarded him by Myrkul was Akachi able to accomplish this. Thus, this 'Betrayal' was the ultimate blesphemy. Akachi tore down the wall and freed the soul of his lover, but was struck down by the enraged Myrkul. Myrkul had Akachi put into the Wall in the place of his loved, and then after a while tore him out before he faded into nothingness. Rid of his name, essence, personality, the Betrayor was made to walk Toril as a void of souls, to eternally hunger for spirits to fill his emptiness. He would possess a soul, and through the soul's body eat up other souls and spirits, until the host soul is itself consumed, at which point the Betrayer would find a new host. The Betrayors' Curse is the main plot line of NWN2:MotB. And this effectively ends the NWN2 storyline, except when the player refuses to end the curse and simply expels the Betrayor from her soul.
Meldread 11-01-07, 03:40 PM	This is the only dogma I have found for Myrkul. "Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me." It has a very strong focus on his portfolio of the dead. It was focused on him being the Lord of the Dead. Something of which everyone, including his priests, know that he is no longer. Therefore, carrying out their old duties such as conducting funerals doesn't make much sense. You know (and the people know) you're shipping those souls off to Kelemvor. When deities lose important portfolio's like the dead, their dogma usually changes to reflect that. Myrkul is no longer at present the god of the dead, and thus is clergy should be reflecting that. They shouldn't be carrying on as if nothing happened. They all know he is dead, as does every other living person in Faerun. Once Myrkul has returned and ascended once again, his dogma would change yet again to reflect the powers he has regained. That isn't a problem and easy to handle. The problem is being a priest of Myrkul in his current state. Things to do: 1. Make people fear death and Myrkul. 2. Make people believe that the return of Myrkul is at hand. 3. Focus strongly on finding a way to return Myrkul above all other things. 4. Seek out and undermine Kelemvor, Cyric and their faithful at every opportunity.
GreenKnight 11-01-07, 11:41 PM	Additionally, because his power is still maintained, his works still stand, most notably the Wall of the Faithless. If he were to truly vanish, then the Wall would fall with him, becuase the Wall is his creation. I've played and beaten the game, and there is nothing indicating that the existence of the Wall keeps Myrkul from fading away entirely. And the final passing on of Myrkul doesn't affect the wall in the slightest. Myrkul's strength now relies on two creations that still stand, the Wall of the Faithless and the Spirit Eater. No, his power relies on the Spirit Eater, and the fear created by the Spirit Eater, and the mere mention of his name, and the fear people feel when his name is heard. When the player tears down the Wall and ends the curse of the Spirit Eater, Myrkul's power is finally undone and Myrkul fades away into nothingness. The game doesn't have the option to tear down the wall. Myrkul, however, DOES fade away if you end the curse of the Spirit Eater. Akachi tore down the wall and freed the soul of his lover He cut her from the wall, but he didn't tear it down. He TRIED to tear it down, but failed. The Betrayors' Curse is the main plot line of NWN2:MotB. And this effectively ends the NWN2 storyline, except when the player refuses to end the curse and simply expels the Betrayor from her soul. Actually, you can end the curse AND free yourself from it. That's the best ending, but it requires gathering up all the mask fragments, first.
meto30 11-02-07, 04:29 AM	Actually, you can end the curse AND free yourself from it. That's the best ending, but it requires gathering up all the mask fragments, first. So that's what they were for! Dang, I have to clear the game again. Can you PM me the locations of all the fragments? If you could I'd be thankful :)
GreenKnight 11-02-07, 07:29 AM	So that's what they were for! Dang, I have to clear the game again. Can you PM me the locations of all the fragments? If you could I'd be thankful :) Done and done! And you think that's bad? I started over the OC after beating the game. :weep: Why? Because Neeshka turned on me at the end, and I wanted to get enough Influence so that the next time she wouldn't turn. Fortunately for you, you can just go back to a save point prior to entering the Fugue Plane to rectify that mistake. It's easy enough getting the Mask Fragments once you know where they are.
meto30 11-02-07, 08:31 AM	I too retried the whole original campaign because Neeshka turned on me. And I tried again, again, and again to get both Qara and Sand on my team, and after realizing that they never both join me, I was ruined. :weep:
Meldread 11-02-07, 01:03 PM	[Meldread sets meto30 and GreenKnight on fire for derailing his thread.] Back to my topic, what would a cleric of Myrkul do now that Myrkul is no longer the god of the dead? This is a big and major shift, bigger than if Bane had lost the portfolio of tyranny or if Jergal had lost the portfolio of fatalism. Imagine Kelemvor without the portfolio of the dead. He would not be the same deity. His role in the cosmology changes. This is what happened to Myrkul. His priests would not be carrying on as they were - they would change or convert. It is not a matter of belief that Myrkul is dead - they know he is dead for fact. Therefore, does it make sense for Myrkul's remaining priests - the most hardcore of the hardcore - to reinterpret their faith to make the return (and ascension) of Myrkul its central tenet? New Dogma: "Lord Myrkul is my Master, and most heartily do I serve him to the last shred of my very soul. My master is death's master. He is both patient and sure, for there is no door he cannot pass, no obstacle he cannot overcome, nor guardian who can stand in his way. Even as my mortal flesh withers and dies, asking nothing do I serve him in anticipation of his Return. Yet I serve with the sure and certain hope of life everlasting. I serve in the knowledge that the faithful shall be exalted above the unbelievers, and that those who oppose him shall die the final death. Swift come the day of Lord Myrkul's Return." I can see the Church of Myrkul actively seeking ways to undermine Kelemvor in his position, from killing his priests, to diving head first into necromancy. The animating of the dead, and finding ways to prevent souls from going to the fugue (or stealing them from there) would be critical objectives. They would likely even go so far as to turn themselves into undead, in an attempt to achieve a sort of immortality and to prevent their soul from entering Kelemvor's realm. Additionally, every priest who is capable would be searching for the Crown of Horns. In fact, the entire church would be laser focused on this effort I would imagine, as well as anything else they can think of that would speed up Myrkul's return and further empower him upon his ascension. Am I wrong in thinking all of this?
Stigger 11-02-07, 05:36 PM	No, sounds pretty reasonable actually.
GreenKnight 11-02-07, 07:01 PM	I too retried the whole original campaign because Neeshka turned on me. Apparently you need an extremely high Influence to keep her. The first time I had 10 Influence and she turned on me. I had 17 Influence the second time, and she stayed. And I tried again, again, and again to get both Qara and Sand on my team, and after realizing that they never both join me, I was ruined. :weep: Yeah, one of them always turns on you. It's just a quesiton of who. Personally, I'm glad Qara turned on me. Gave me the opportunity to kill her. [Meldread sets meto30 and GreenKnight on fire for derailing his thread.] Gah, who told you of my weakness? Geeze, douse me with acid, too, why don't ya? Anyway, on the subject of Myrkul... Am I wrong in thinking all of this? Nope. Back to my topic, what would a cleric of Myrkul do now that Myrkul is no longer the god of the dead? This is a big and major shift, bigger than if Bane had lost the portfolio of tyranny or if Jergal had lost the portfolio of fatalism. Imagine Kelemvor without the portfolio of the dead. He would not be the same deity. His role in the cosmology changes. This is what happened to Myrkul. His priests would not be carrying on as they were - they would change or convert. It is not a matter of belief that Myrkul is dead - they know he is dead for fact. You're absolutely right. When a god no longer possesses a Portfolio, he changes. Just look at Bane. He no longer holds the Portfolio of Strife, and as such, his church operates differently then it did prior to the Time of Troubles, and Bane himself operates differently. And that's just a small change. Take another god like Tyr. He's very different to who he is in the Asgardian Pantheon, as in Faerun he has the Portfolio of Justice, but in the Asgardian Pantheon, he's got a slew of other Portfolios. Therefore, does it make sense for Myrkul's remaining priests - the most hardcore of the hardcore - to reinterpret their faith to make the return (and ascension) of Myrkul its central tenet? Yeah, they'd probably focus on aspects currently unclaimed by other gods which would be appropriate for their lord. As for Portfolios, aren't the Portfolios of Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk currently unclaimed? That'd make a nice set for a resurrected Myrkul. Wouldn't titles like "The Wasting Lord" and "The Lord of Dusk" sound appropriate for Myrkul? Not to mention that that'd put him in direct opposition to Lathander, who's God of Athletics, Youth, Vitality, and Dawn. And all those Portfolios, taken together, may be enough to make him a Greater God, again. Once he's regained some of his godly power through those Portfolios, he can then kill Velsharoon and claim the Portfolios of Necromancy, Necromancers, Evil Liches, and Undeath. That would then also put him into direct opposition to Kelemvor. And if he wasn't a Greater God, before, then he will be one after claiming Velsharoon's Portfolios. So that's my personal wish, anyway. To see Myrkul resurrected and become a Greater God, again, becoming God of Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk, and maybe Necromancy, Necromancers, Evil Liches, and Undeath, too.
GreenKnight 11-03-07, 07:38 AM	Hmm. Just downloaded the 1E campaign setting box (Haven't seen the thing in years. I never owned it but a friend did) and Myrkul possessed all the unclaimed Portfolios I mentioned above. So it really wouldn't require all that much change to the Myrkulite faith. Before he died, Myrkul held the following Portfolios: the Dead Wasting Decay Corruption Parasites Old Age Dusk Fall Exhaustion It'd be a simple enough matter to focus on the other aspects of Myrkul's faith, represented by the Portfolios which currently lay unclaimed. And while I don't really feel like going through a list of all the gods to make sure, I'm pretty certain that all of those Portfolios, save for the Portfolio of the Dead, currently lie unclaimed. If Myrkul were to be resurrected, then he could easily reclaim those Portfolios. And those Portfolios may be enough to push him to Greater God status by themselves.
Suin Bahhar 11-03-07, 09:31 AM	I know at present Gargauth has the corruption portfolio. Meldread, your new dogma sounds very evil and the clergy should watch out that more goodly and neutral factions will be opposing the Rise of Myrkul. Kelemvor has lots of allies and is well known by the simple folk of Fearun.
Pyrogen 11-03-07, 09:44 AM	I believe Lolth has been trying to mussle in on the decay portfolio through her impersonation of Moander but not sure if she has been given it officially. Also not sure if a distinction has been drawn between rotting decay as part of the natural cycle of life and decay as something that is unwelcome, like cancer or some form of wasting disease.
GothicDan 11-03-07, 10:09 AM	That would be Talona. In my games, I'd make Talona a servant of Myrkul. Maybe a creepy, scarred wife-figure. A disease-ridden mummy. Hot.
1 ton ghost 11-03-07, 02:40 PM	realistically, i cannot see a sudden surge of power or worship. it's great as a plot hook and all, but there are too many independent variables working against Myrkul. -one of Jergal's first duties, being staunchly LN, would be to advise Kelemvor to give them the old universal standby of "convert to the new way or die." the new law of the dead is pretty B/W so you basically have to "fall in line w/ the others" or meet oblivion. -technically, they'd be the False since Myrkul's dead, right? so, failing to acknowledge, not necessarilly embrace Kelemvore's sovereignty of the dead a1nd worshiping Myrkul is major heresy. -the wall may be a creation of Myrkul, but is ultimately maintained by the current god of the dead. guess he liked the idea so much he bought the company. -Jergal and Kel' are kinda' obligated to offer some quarter given the highly structured and ordered sphere of influence of the dead. i'm sure plenty of Myrkul's faithful said, "damn, that sucks, but i'd like to keep my spells and mr. mysteri-o ambiance, so i'll convert." others maybe committed suicide, joined w/ Cyric, etc. though i'm sure there is alot of bitterness there. Kel and Jergal never officially dicked over Myrkul, they were just chosen simply. -i'm sure they are still rehabbing old temples, dispelling old wives' tales, and trying to win the population over; time of troubles wasn't that long ago. so, yeah, there's probably many that still worship Myrkul, but the check is in the mail -lastly, he's severely weakened; less LN gods will want to take advantage of this fact for their own selfish reasons. easier to take down this way.