Mystra, Helm....changes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mystra, Helm....changes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jax_Nightstalker
10-19-07, 07:13 PM I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes.

Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck????
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-20-07, 10:41 PM I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home.

Welcome to the club!
Meldread
10-21-07, 09:05 AM Ao did not intervene because the gods were doing what they were supposed to do - upholding their portfolios. Cyric is the god of murder, lies, and deception, and is almost as powerful as Mystra herself (and by the time this happens he may even be equally as powerful). Shar was also helping him in his actions.

While it may make sense for Mystra to "foresee" this coming based on what is written, this may not have been the case. Shar may have had the ability, as an equal power to Mystra and as the goddess of secrets, and Cyric as perhaps an equal power as the god of deception and lies, to obscure this event from Mystra's detection. Therefore, it would seem to her as if everything was perfectly fine when in reality it wasn't.

There are similar situations in which a god should have "known" about something like this - Savras, for example, when he was trapped in a stick by Azuth.

The belief that Mystra was somehow above and beyond all the other gods is a misperception created by her Plot Shield +5 Armor which finally was penetrated by Cyric's new 4E Longsword of Godslaying +10.
GothicDan
10-21-07, 01:44 PM Meldread, you've made that same response before and you already know many of us just don't agree.

So rather than making the same arguments over again, I'll just say:

No.

;)
Sol_Odlanier
10-21-07, 02:20 PM Why You Don't agree?:confused: :thinks:
Spelldancer
10-21-07, 03:41 PM Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons
GothicDan
10-21-07, 03:51 PM F&P is really not even canon any more, with the number of times WotC's gone back on things printed in it.
johnkretzer
10-21-07, 04:02 PM Ao did not intervene because the gods were doing what they were supposed to do - upholding their portfolios. Cyric is the god of murder, lies, and deception, and is almost as powerful as Mystra herself (and by the time this happens he may even be equally as powerful). Shar was also helping him in his actions.

Ao didn't intervene because he is the plot god.
Also why is Cyric a greater god? Oh yeah because of plot.
Also Shar has been gunning for the Weave and by extension Mystra since just about the dawn of time...if it was that easy why didn't she do it before now?

There are similar situations in which a god should have "known" about something like this - Savras, for example, when he was trapped in a stick by Azuth..

Considering what Azuth would become can you prove that Savras didn't see this as neccessary? Also he forsaw he would be freed....

The belief that Mystra was somehow above and beyond all the other gods is a misperception created by her Plot Shield +5 Armor which finally was penetrated by Cyric's new 4E Longsword of Godslaying +10.

No Cyric just used a Plot Sword +6.
Also no god should be invulnerable...so why isn't Cyric dead? I guess he stole Mystra's plot armor +5.
Jax_Nightstalker
10-28-07, 11:36 PM Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons

Also according to Faiths and Pantheons Mystra had to give some of her power to mortals, making the chosen and this was done on AO's orders. So by giving some of her powers up to put into the Chosen would make Mystra as powerful or more powerful than Chauntea. Not like it really matters now that Mystra is being killed off.
Charles Phipps
10-29-07, 02:28 AM Mystra was just a god, no stronger than any other god. Also, Ed's answer regarding the Chosen is sorta changed now that every God and his brother has Chosen.

And why is it so hard for Mystra to be killed in her Domain? Every God can be slain by another God. That's how it works. If Mystra killed Cyric in his domain, no one would complain.

And why did Cyric do it? BECAUSE HE'S THE DARK SUN AND DESTINED RULER OF ALL!
Alleran
10-29-07, 09:20 AM *Jax_Nightstalker writes stuff about Mystra*
I completely agree, and have taken to calling it a DEW (Deus Ex WotC).
Stigger
10-29-07, 03:31 PM C'mon Charles, Cyric is the Tiax of the divine set... that's like having him show up just after the last battle in Throne of Bhaal and getting wasted by him so he could claim divinity...
Storm_Silverhand
10-29-07, 05:49 PM Heya,

Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons

Ed Greenwood has always maintained that Mystra is the most powerful entity in the Realms... Despite her power level in Faiths and Pantheons.

She is also a deity with a truck load of allies, and if she had even the faintest whiff of what was to happen (even if she didn't sense Shar's and Cyric's hand in the plot, she almost certainly would have sensed the destruction that would follow her death - that counts as a "faint whiff" to me), Shar and Cyric would have failed.

The only way the plot makes sense is if Mystra wanted them to succeed for some unknown reason.

Personally, Mystra was always (and always will be) one of the highlights of the setting for me, and in my Realms she'll have countered Shar's and Cyric's plot by the clever use of her abilities, and with a little bit of help from her friends.
Jax_Nightstalker
10-29-07, 09:25 PM And why did Cyric do it? BECAUSE HE'S THE DARK SUN AND DESTINED RULER OF ALL!

You know I never cared to much for Mystra/Midnight I felt the Neutral Good thing for her never should have been. I never cared to much for Cyric either because for all the power he was give he was to stupid. Now the fool is imprisoned for a 1000 years in his own domain at that. About time he is down with his sentence he should be a lesser god destined to be ruler of foolishness and would be world rulers.

As far as the killing Mystra even though I didn't like her being Neutral Good I still feel the killing her off was all wrong. But I am patient and will wait and see what WoTC has planned for the Realms and its gods.
captaincarot
11-04-07, 07:29 AM aint it funny
for years every one said
"Mystra isnt the goddess of the weave, she is the weave."

then people asked "so what would happen if she died then". and all the wise sages said "oh no you don't want that to happen it would spell the end of faerun, because the whole place is held together with magic and without it it would just fall apart."

so the people replied "ah so if mystra died it would be the end of faerun the whole place would fall apart."

and the wise sages said "yep that's pretty much it"

then along came some accountorcs who are much more powerful than gods but far less wise and they said in their best orc and goblin voices " ere a bunch of 3 year olds in california don't like this mystra fing watever it is and dey don't like not being the most powerful fing in der ole world"
and another of the accountorcs said "den y dont we all kill it off den"

and so they did and lo and behold great mystra was killed and the accoutorcs worshiped their great god money at the the altar they called "fleece de saps like a cash cow, cos we fink they too stupid to realise"

and lo the realms were not destroyed with the passing of our lady mystra, but they survived on into the great new wilderness called 4th edition.
but little did the accountorcs realise, that the 3 yr old californians couldn't give a stuff about games which are played on that strange stuff called paper using the thing in their head called an imagination. because they could play shootemups with the new demigod called playstation 3 and that just involved nagging their parents for a few hundred bucks then mashing some buttons on a controler.
and now the accountorcs began to panic because their thinly veiled strategy to fleece their already loyal following had been rumbled and the word had not spread at all to the unbrained followers of the newer demigod.

and lo it came to pass that the forgotten realms did indeed pass away with the slaying of mystra though it took a couple of years for it to die completely.

and though i relay this tale to you from the ends of time, the morals of the story stood true through the aeons and they were,
"If it aint broke don't fix it"
and the first law of marketing.
"don't pyff off yer loyal customers in order to grab a market who have no chance of being interested in your product."

but the consolation was that the accountorcs staved to death as their idol burned down and the great overgods overgod greenwood cast a spell of resurrection on the realms by the power of his own imagination.
Slavorian Nightrunner
11-09-07, 04:20 PM if this is the track that WOTC plan to take then they will lose a loyal customer in me. there is no need to take out mystra. according to the long history of the Realms mystra formerly known as mystryl is the weave, soul, body and mind. if she dies no more magic, it ceases to exist. so i didnt care when TSR went under and WOTC came on the scene and started changing everything in 3.0/3.5 and i dang sure dont like the direction of 4E is going now. first Dungeon/Dragon magazine now this. TPTB really should listen to the players and fans not make decisions without our input.
MarkusTay63
11-09-07, 06:10 PM I completely agree, and have taken to calling it a DEW (Deus Ex WotC).I prefer to call it doo... ;)

The only way I can see all of this making sense is that Shar NEEDED Cyric (she couldn't do it herself, for whatever reason), and somehow started the events in motion for the first ToT (which led to Cyric's ascension - check her roll of "Shadow Years").

Killing Mystra was not something covered by her portfolios, but perhaps something in Cyric's allowed it?

Or maybe it was as simple as Shar going for a full frontal assault (a feint), whilst Cyric slipped in the back door and back-stabbed Mystra? Savras might have saw that coming, but then Cyric did him first.

After much thought, it could work, but I wait to see what the official 'low-down' is before I judge.

The name of this thread made a funny thought pop into my head - Helmystra: Protector of Magic :D
Brukenka
11-09-07, 09:39 PM I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes.

Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck????

This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good.
Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event.
I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril.
After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Brukenka
11-09-07, 09:41 PM I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes.

Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck????

This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good.
Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event.
I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril.
After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Brukenka
11-09-07, 09:48 PM This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good.
Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event.
I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril.
After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Pyrogen
11-10-07, 06:35 AM I am not too familiar with what has been published concerning Mystra's demise but what I query is that her death results in instant destruction of the Weave because it did not do so when Mystryl died (only a temporary disruption of magic and ongoing after shocks for anyone tapping directly into the Weave such as high elf mages) and it did not occur the second time she died because she had made provision for such an event in the election of her chosen who each held a portion of her power. So to destroy the Weave surely needs the death of not only Mystra and all her Chosen simultaneously?

As for the Realms, as I understand it Chauntea was already in existence before the Weave, as was the Sun she had requested to allow life. The Weave seemed to be some sort of protection that prevented Shar from ever totally snuffing out the lights. So whilst removing the Weave would make the Realms more vulnerable to her benign influence, for her to be successful in destroying them totally she would have to have more power than the combined might of Chauntea, Lathander, Selune and all the other various deities that promote life. Even evil gods would largely oppose her actions, if they had any intelligence because they would have worked out that no life means no worshipers and they would cease to exist.

So whilst killing Mystra might have major catastrophic effects on magic users (as is apparently intended by WotC) life would still go on and people would adapt to the new situation, as they apparently did after Mystryl died.

Am I missing anything in the above?
Stigger
11-10-07, 06:00 PM She got killed in Dweomerheart this time around... getting killed in the middle of her own demense would probably have a somewhat different effect than the other times. How exactly that's going to be justified or made to make some semblance of sense, I cannot imagine...
MarkusTay63
11-11-07, 01:10 AM Yup, magic ceases to function the way it used to, so MUs need to find a new method of casting spells.

Just like the psionicists needed to learn how to use their disciplines again after the ToT.

Basically, we are looking at a complete setting reset here.
Norg
11-14-07, 09:03 AM Has anyone thought that Ao saw this and that is why he had Mystra make so many Chosen? With all her esence that is in the Chosen, Mystra might come back at a later time just like Bane did.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jax_Nightstalker 10-19-07, 07:13 PM	I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes. Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck????
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-20-07, 10:41 PM	I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. Welcome to the club!
Meldread 10-21-07, 09:05 AM	Ao did not intervene because the gods were doing what they were supposed to do - upholding their portfolios. Cyric is the god of murder, lies, and deception, and is almost as powerful as Mystra herself (and by the time this happens he may even be equally as powerful). Shar was also helping him in his actions. While it may make sense for Mystra to "foresee" this coming based on what is written, this may not have been the case. Shar may have had the ability, as an equal power to Mystra and as the goddess of secrets, and Cyric as perhaps an equal power as the god of deception and lies, to obscure this event from Mystra's detection. Therefore, it would seem to her as if everything was perfectly fine when in reality it wasn't. There are similar situations in which a god should have "known" about something like this - Savras, for example, when he was trapped in a stick by Azuth. The belief that Mystra was somehow above and beyond all the other gods is a misperception created by her Plot Shield +5 Armor which finally was penetrated by Cyric's new 4E Longsword of Godslaying +10.
GothicDan 10-21-07, 01:44 PM	Meldread, you've made that same response before and you already know many of us just don't agree. So rather than making the same arguments over again, I'll just say: No. ;)
Sol_Odlanier 10-21-07, 02:20 PM	Why You Don't agree?:confused: :thinks:
Spelldancer 10-21-07, 03:41 PM	Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons
GothicDan 10-21-07, 03:51 PM	F&P is really not even canon any more, with the number of times WotC's gone back on things printed in it.
johnkretzer 10-21-07, 04:02 PM	Ao did not intervene because the gods were doing what they were supposed to do - upholding their portfolios. Cyric is the god of murder, lies, and deception, and is almost as powerful as Mystra herself (and by the time this happens he may even be equally as powerful). Shar was also helping him in his actions. Ao didn't intervene because he is the plot god. Also why is Cyric a greater god? Oh yeah because of plot. Also Shar has been gunning for the Weave and by extension Mystra since just about the dawn of time...if it was that easy why didn't she do it before now? There are similar situations in which a god should have "known" about something like this - Savras, for example, when he was trapped in a stick by Azuth.. Considering what Azuth would become can you prove that Savras didn't see this as neccessary? Also he forsaw he would be freed.... The belief that Mystra was somehow above and beyond all the other gods is a misperception created by her Plot Shield +5 Armor which finally was penetrated by Cyric's new 4E Longsword of Godslaying +10. No Cyric just used a Plot Sword +6. Also no god should be invulnerable...so why isn't Cyric dead? I guess he stole Mystra's plot armor +5.
Jax_Nightstalker 10-28-07, 11:36 PM	Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons Also according to Faiths and Pantheons Mystra had to give some of her power to mortals, making the chosen and this was done on AO's orders. So by giving some of her powers up to put into the Chosen would make Mystra as powerful or more powerful than Chauntea. Not like it really matters now that Mystra is being killed off.
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 02:28 AM	Mystra was just a god, no stronger than any other god. Also, Ed's answer regarding the Chosen is sorta changed now that every God and his brother has Chosen. And why is it so hard for Mystra to be killed in her Domain? Every God can be slain by another God. That's how it works. If Mystra killed Cyric in his domain, no one would complain. And why did Cyric do it? BECAUSE HE'S THE DARK SUN AND DESTINED RULER OF ALL!
Alleran 10-29-07, 09:20 AM	Jax_Nightstalker writes stuff about Mystra I completely agree, and have taken to calling it a DEW (Deus Ex WotC).
Stigger 10-29-07, 03:31 PM	C'mon Charles, Cyric is the Tiax of the divine set... that's like having him show up just after the last battle in Throne of Bhaal and getting wasted by him so he could claim divinity...
Storm_Silverhand 10-29-07, 05:49 PM	Heya, Not to sounds like a ninny... but Chauntea is the most powerful god, according to Faiths and Pantheons Ed Greenwood has always maintained that Mystra is the most powerful entity in the Realms... Despite her power level in Faiths and Pantheons. She is also a deity with a truck load of allies, and if she had even the faintest whiff of what was to happen (even if she didn't sense Shar's and Cyric's hand in the plot, she almost certainly would have sensed the destruction that would follow her death - that counts as a "faint whiff" to me), Shar and Cyric would have failed. The only way the plot makes sense is if Mystra wanted them to succeed for some unknown reason. Personally, Mystra was always (and always will be) one of the highlights of the setting for me, and in my Realms she'll have countered Shar's and Cyric's plot by the clever use of her abilities, and with a little bit of help from her friends.
Jax_Nightstalker 10-29-07, 09:25 PM	And why did Cyric do it? BECAUSE HE'S THE DARK SUN AND DESTINED RULER OF ALL! You know I never cared to much for Mystra/Midnight I felt the Neutral Good thing for her never should have been. I never cared to much for Cyric either because for all the power he was give he was to stupid. Now the fool is imprisoned for a 1000 years in his own domain at that. About time he is down with his sentence he should be a lesser god destined to be ruler of foolishness and would be world rulers. As far as the killing Mystra even though I didn't like her being Neutral Good I still feel the killing her off was all wrong. But I am patient and will wait and see what WoTC has planned for the Realms and its gods.
captaincarot 11-04-07, 07:29 AM	aint it funny for years every one said "Mystra isnt the goddess of the weave, she is the weave." then people asked "so what would happen if she died then". and all the wise sages said "oh no you don't want that to happen it would spell the end of faerun, because the whole place is held together with magic and without it it would just fall apart." so the people replied "ah so if mystra died it would be the end of faerun the whole place would fall apart." and the wise sages said "yep that's pretty much it" then along came some accountorcs who are much more powerful than gods but far less wise and they said in their best orc and goblin voices " ere a bunch of 3 year olds in california don't like this mystra fing watever it is and dey don't like not being the most powerful fing in der ole world" and another of the accountorcs said "den y dont we all kill it off den" and so they did and lo and behold great mystra was killed and the accoutorcs worshiped their great god money at the the altar they called "fleece de saps like a cash cow, cos we fink they too stupid to realise" and lo the realms were not destroyed with the passing of our lady mystra, but they survived on into the great new wilderness called 4th edition. but little did the accountorcs realise, that the 3 yr old californians couldn't give a stuff about games which are played on that strange stuff called paper using the thing in their head called an imagination. because they could play shootemups with the new demigod called playstation 3 and that just involved nagging their parents for a few hundred bucks then mashing some buttons on a controler. and now the accountorcs began to panic because their thinly veiled strategy to fleece their already loyal following had been rumbled and the word had not spread at all to the unbrained followers of the newer demigod. and lo it came to pass that the forgotten realms did indeed pass away with the slaying of mystra though it took a couple of years for it to die completely. and though i relay this tale to you from the ends of time, the morals of the story stood true through the aeons and they were, "If it aint broke don't fix it" and the first law of marketing. "don't pyff off yer loyal customers in order to grab a market who have no chance of being interested in your product." but the consolation was that the accountorcs staved to death as their idol burned down and the great overgods overgod greenwood cast a spell of resurrection on the realms by the power of his own imagination.
Slavorian Nightrunner 11-09-07, 04:20 PM	if this is the track that WOTC plan to take then they will lose a loyal customer in me. there is no need to take out mystra. according to the long history of the Realms mystra formerly known as mystryl is the weave, soul, body and mind. if she dies no more magic, it ceases to exist. so i didnt care when TSR went under and WOTC came on the scene and started changing everything in 3.0/3.5 and i dang sure dont like the direction of 4E is going now. first Dungeon/Dragon magazine now this. TPTB really should listen to the players and fans not make decisions without our input.
MarkusTay63 11-09-07, 06:10 PM	I completely agree, and have taken to calling it a DEW (Deus Ex WotC).I prefer to call it doo... ;) The only way I can see all of this making sense is that Shar NEEDED Cyric (she couldn't do it herself, for whatever reason), and somehow started the events in motion for the first ToT (which led to Cyric's ascension - check her roll of "Shadow Years"). Killing Mystra was not something covered by her portfolios, but perhaps something in Cyric's allowed it? Or maybe it was as simple as Shar going for a full frontal assault (a feint), whilst Cyric slipped in the back door and back-stabbed Mystra? Savras might have saw that coming, but then Cyric did him first. After much thought, it could work, but I wait to see what the official 'low-down' is before I judge. The name of this thread made a funny thought pop into my head - Helmystra: Protector of Magic :D
Brukenka 11-09-07, 09:39 PM	I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes. Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck???? This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good. Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event. I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril. After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Brukenka 11-09-07, 09:41 PM	I understand WoTC wanted to make some changes to the setting. I even understood peoples dislike for the goddess of Magic. But I find it hard to believe Mystra being the strongest god in the Realms being killed off in her on Domain. For one I thought a god was at his/her strongest in their home. And what of her allies??? They could have come to her aid but with a thought. I for one feel all the gods are weak in standards and status. It almost seems they can be killed off no matter what status they are (greater...lesser...demi) and other beings like demon lords and arch devils seem more powerful than the gods any way. And how does killing Mystra off maintain the balance that all the Greater Powers are to up hold? AO really just stood by to let some of his work go up in smoke, namely the Weave. And I thought that Greater Powers had the power to sense things past, present, and future? I would think the Weave being destroyed would have helped Mystra prepare. And what of the Chosen? They should be ashes. Helm, never really liked this god. So I could careless that he is dead and gone. But the thing is are gods lacking in brain power? For one Helm never got down with Chaotic gods. So why in the world would Tyr even think Helm wanted the goddess of luck???? This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good. Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event. I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril. After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Brukenka 11-09-07, 09:48 PM	This all is very nauseative, the godess of magic dying again and the evil always showing to be more quickness than the good. Ridiculous, the fact of a god like Tyr, kill Helm for a mundane reason and still with a Cyric´s hand in the event. I think that is needed more coherence and less cataclisms in this fantastic world that was Toril. After all, business and merchandise are not all, the most important is to keep Forgotten Realms and their characters living in our hearts, cause they are parts of our own history!
Pyrogen 11-10-07, 06:35 AM	I am not too familiar with what has been published concerning Mystra's demise but what I query is that her death results in instant destruction of the Weave because it did not do so when Mystryl died (only a temporary disruption of magic and ongoing after shocks for anyone tapping directly into the Weave such as high elf mages) and it did not occur the second time she died because she had made provision for such an event in the election of her chosen who each held a portion of her power. So to destroy the Weave surely needs the death of not only Mystra and all her Chosen simultaneously? As for the Realms, as I understand it Chauntea was already in existence before the Weave, as was the Sun she had requested to allow life. The Weave seemed to be some sort of protection that prevented Shar from ever totally snuffing out the lights. So whilst removing the Weave would make the Realms more vulnerable to her benign influence, for her to be successful in destroying them totally she would have to have more power than the combined might of Chauntea, Lathander, Selune and all the other various deities that promote life. Even evil gods would largely oppose her actions, if they had any intelligence because they would have worked out that no life means no worshipers and they would cease to exist. So whilst killing Mystra might have major catastrophic effects on magic users (as is apparently intended by WotC) life would still go on and people would adapt to the new situation, as they apparently did after Mystryl died. Am I missing anything in the above?
Stigger 11-10-07, 06:00 PM	She got killed in Dweomerheart this time around... getting killed in the middle of her own demense would probably have a somewhat different effect than the other times. How exactly that's going to be justified or made to make some semblance of sense, I cannot imagine...
MarkusTay63 11-11-07, 01:10 AM	Yup, magic ceases to function the way it used to, so MUs need to find a new method of casting spells. Just like the psionicists needed to learn how to use their disciplines again after the ToT. Basically, we are looking at a complete setting reset here.
Norg 11-14-07, 09:03 AM	Has anyone thought that Ao saw this and that is why he had Mystra make so many Chosen? With all her esence that is in the Chosen, Mystra might come back at a later time just like Bane did.