| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| ElberethSilverleaf09-22-07, 09:17 PM | So now Mystra has been killed off to make way for Wizard$ to make more money on an idiotic new realms setting. How will magic work in the new non realms realms? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-22-07, 09:52 PM | While I share your apparent dislike of this development, it's very bad form to have a spoiler right in the title. I'd change the wording now. Also, this topic has been discussed extensively in other threads. |
| ElberethSilverleaf09-22-07, 10:54 PM | You can't be serious if you think that people who read these boards don't already know Mystra has been killed. The only people who read these boards are those of us with a love for the realms and D&D and are usually privy to some things that can't be posted due to nondisclosure agreements. I don't know a single Realmsian including the folks at Candlekeep who don't already know Mystra's been killed off, the Weave is no more and that Wizards (should be changed to Buffoons) is remaking the game system to increase profit revenue. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-23-07, 01:34 AM | You can't be serious if you think that people who read these boards don't already know Mystra has been killed. The only people who read these boards are those of us with a love for the realms and D&D and are usually privy to some things that can't be posted due to nondisclosure agreements. I don't know a single Realmsian including the folks at Candlekeep who don't already know Mystra's been killed off, the Weave is no more and that Wizards (should be changed to Buffoons) is remaking the game system to increase profit revenue. Umm, I don't think you should assume that everyone who looks at these boards (some people just read without posting, you know) is fully up to date on the changes AND wouldn't mind be spoiled just by glancing at a thread title. I've seen plenty of "clueless" people at these forums. Once again, putting a spoiler right in the title is bad form, and probably against the Code of Conduct here. |
| ElberethSilverleaf09-23-07, 01:44 AM | NOPE! Just read the Code of Conduct and my thread is perfectly legitimate! Thanks for the warning as I don't want to be banned. I will keep discussing this as long as people are interested.............................. ........................................ ........................................ ........................................ ........................................ ........................................ ......... |
| 18DELTA09-23-07, 02:14 AM | Cant we all just get along?:eek: |
| MerrikCale09-23-07, 08:15 AM | Cant we all just get along?:eek: why would we want that? |
| Andyr09-23-07, 09:56 AM | You can't be serious if you think that people who read these boards don't already know Mystra has been killed. The only people who read these boards are those of us with a love for the realms and D&D and are usually privy to some things that can't be posted due to nondisclosure agreements. I don't know a single Realmsian including the folks at Candlekeep who don't already know Mystra's been killed off, the Weave is no more and that Wizards (should be changed to Buffoons) is remaking the game system to increase profit revenue. Particularly for those of us who aren't American, it can often be hard to get hold of novels and sourcebooks for a few weeks after they are released. Even when buying online, I am still waiting for Shadowstorm, Storm of the Dead[i] and [i]Grand History of the Realms to arrive in the UK--I suspect other countries might have to wait longer. And then when we've got them, jobs and the like mean it can be a while longer before we have time to read them. We can't all have read the books within a day of their US release date, which is when spoilers tend to appear. I read the boards as there are often other things I would like to discuss, and I try very hard to avoid spoilers for products I don't yet have (and am normally successful at this). But when people are posting threads with obvious spoilers in the title, or not labelling threads with spoilers in them, that is very frustrating and disheartening. I don't feel that I should have to avoid the boards for a month every time a product I want to buy is released. (As an aside, I knew about this spoiler already: as it is not happening in a novel, I was not too fussed to hear about the contents of GHotR before my copy arrives.) So for the benefit of others, could you consider editing the title? "Deific changes in GHotR" or something would be informative and yet not reveal too much to those who don't want to be spoiled. |
| Todesherr09-23-07, 10:37 AM | Particularly for those of us who aren't American, it can often be hard to get hold of novels and sourcebooks for a few weeks after they are released. Even when buying online, I am still waiting for Shadowstorm, Storm of the Dead[i] and [i]Grand History of the Realms to arrive in the UK--I suspect other countries might have to wait longer. And then when we've got them, jobs and the like mean it can be a while longer before we have time to read them. We can't all have read the books within a day of their US release date, which is when spoilers tend to appear. I read the boards as there are often other things I would like to discuss, and I try very hard to avoid spoilers for products I don't yet have (and am normally successful at this). But when people are posting threads with obvious spoilers in the title, or not labelling threads with spoilers in them, that is very frustrating and disheartening. I don't feel that I should have to avoid the boards for a month every time a product I want to buy is released. (As an aside, I knew about this spoiler already: as it is not happening in a novel, I was not too fussed to hear about the contents of GHotR before my copy arrives.) So for the benefit of others, could you consider editing the title? "Deific changes in GHotR" or something would be informative and yet not reveal too much to those who don't want to be spoiled. Do you attend Oxford university or do you just live there? |
| Derren S.09-23-07, 12:00 PM | Mystra is dead? Did I miss something? When did that happen? |
| SgtAnjay09-23-07, 12:12 PM | Mystra is dead? Did I miss something? When did that happen? And there you go. Gotta love first-class, grade-A, USDA choice prime dickery. Even better when someone wont admit it was dickery. Even better when its a post on a topic already being discussed in a bunch of different posts. Even better when the answer to the question posed in the dickery is achingly obvious: Magic will work according to the 4ed D&D magic system. :nonono: |
| Red_Wizard09-23-07, 12:28 PM | Mystra is dead? Did I miss something? When did that happen? According to GHotR, not until 1385. A unified attack of some sort by Cyric and Shar, manages to destroy the meddlesome midnight, and lay low the weave. This is the spellplague we have been hearing so much about, though we still have no idea how this effects us, or the realms at large. |
| Green Elven Vampire09-23-07, 12:45 PM | I think the only thing WoTc killed off is their sales for 4ED!! Give it 5 to 7 years and they'll have 4.5ED or 5ED before anyone even buys all the 4ED crap. Mystra may be dead, but so will the sales for 4ED. |
| Strider_of_Harrodale09-23-07, 01:15 PM | Lets go back to 2nd Edition......There are soooooo many gamers out there that have no idea what THAC0 is or have even Read a book....Most don't even know HOW Midnight got to be Mystra....Lets see that would have been.....around April 1989...Near Shadowdale.....or....Somewhere on the Sword Coast...... |
| Strider_of_Harrodale09-23-07, 01:24 PM | Oh yeah.....1348DR for the purists....... |
| Derren S.09-23-07, 01:30 PM | And there you go. Gotta love first-class, grade-A, USDA choice prime dickery. Even better when someone wont admit it was dickery. Even better when its a post on a topic already being discussed in a bunch of different posts. Even better when the answer to the question posed in the dickery is achingly obvious: Magic will work according to the 4ed D&D magic system. :nonono: Can someone translate that please? |
| Shuuya09-23-07, 01:37 PM | Goddammit. I was avoiding spoilers until GHotR arrived. Way to go OP. :mad: |
| ywhtptgtfo09-23-07, 02:05 PM | Just delete this thread and ban the OP. This is what the moderators are here for. |
| GothicDan09-23-07, 02:14 PM | The OP did absolutely nothing wrong. This information isn't from a novel, so it doesn't require spoilers. |
| Derren S.09-23-07, 02:16 PM | So will there be a Mystra 4.0 or will someone else watch over magic in the realms? Will we see Elminster the deity? |
| Shuuya09-23-07, 02:25 PM | Will we see Elminster the deity? Cut your tongue out right now. If that happens I will cry. Elminster and Drizzt should vanish into the ether. Volo, however, can stay. |
| 18DELTA09-23-07, 05:03 PM | Can someone translate that please? Thats instant JACK**S, just add the internet.:P ;) That was a funny **s post huh?:eek: |
| The_Shaman09-24-07, 07:29 AM | Ok, there's another reason for me to hate GHotR, without even having read the book (and the OP almost spoiled it for me - I learned an hour ago from here). I like the Realms for several reasons, one of them was because they were unique. The weave - and Mystra and her gang - were a part of that. I haven't had and probably never will have a character who uses spellfire or casts epic spells, but I liked the idea of how the Weave interacts with them. Now this. Do the Realms HAVE to be no more than Generic Fantasy Setting or Standard Fantasy Setting #2? I consider this decision a grave mistake that will sooner or later be corrected. BTW, is Mr. Greenwood involved in the GHotR, and is there any chance he could consider it non-canon or at least optional? |
| Shuuya09-24-07, 07:41 AM | I believe Ed Greenwood co-authored it with Brian James. So yeah it is canon, but I think there'll be some changes between now and FR 4th Edition. They might bump another few years onto the timeline in the sourcebook and we could see a suitable replacement for Mystra, perhaps they'll bring back the Weave and Shadow Weave but it works differently, so no more Vancian casting. Afterall Mystra changed how people could use the Weave after Karsus and the death of Mystryl so it's not exactly impossible or even illogical. |
| Bluenose09-24-07, 09:40 AM | Ok, there's another reason for me to hate GHotR, without even having read the book (and the OP almost spoiled it for me - I learned an hour ago from here). 2 pages of the book deal with this little bit of the Realms future, the rest is excellent, from the little bit I had a chance to read since my copy arrived as I was leaving for work this morning. I like the Realms for several reasons, one of them was because they were unique. A news flash for you. ALL settings have unique aspects. It's not something peculiat to the Realms. That you like the particular bits of the Realms that were unique doesn't change that. The weave - and Mystra and her gang - were a part of that. I haven't had and probably never will have a character who uses spellfire or casts epic spells, but I liked the idea of how the Weave interacts with them. Now this. Do the Realms HAVE to be no more than Generic Fantasy Setting or Standard Fantasy Setting #2? Yes. The Realms have never been Wildly Original Fantasy Setting #1 or Bizarre Variant Fantasy Setting #4. They have to a certain extent defined what mainstream FRPGs are like, so this should hardly come as a surprise I consider this decision a grave mistake that will sooner or later be corrected. BTW, is Mr. Greenwood involved in the GHotR, and is there any chance he could consider it non-canon or at least optional? Virtually everything in it is history, history that EG either created himself or at least consulted on. Even if you ignore the period 1375-1385 which so many people are worked up about, the rest is worth getting it for. |
| customdrapery09-24-07, 09:48 AM | AGHotR is an excellent book, the last two pages (1375-1385) basically provide for me some hooks to use in future adventures. The whole mystra-cyric-shar debacle and the Tyr-Tymora-Sune-Helm thing I'm just going to ignore. You buy the book for the nice detail you get about the HISTORY of the realms, not the future, which is such a minimal part of the book it's not worth ignoring the rest of it for. |
| Burningspear09-24-07, 10:06 AM | AGHotR is an excellent book, the last two pages (1375-1385) basically provide for me some hooks to use in future adventures. The whole mystra-cyric-shar debacle and the Tyr-Tymora-Sune-Helm thing I'm just going to ignore. You buy the book for the nice detail you get about the HISTORY of the realms, not the future, which is such a minimal part of the book it's not worth ignoring the rest of it for. Does not change the pure 'idiotisism' (is that even a word :D .), that Wotc has been throwing around at us since they went 3.5.. It hurts me that EG is actually in on it all, that just saddens me even more. |
| Andyr09-24-07, 11:48 AM | Do you attend Oxford university or do you just live there? I both attend Oxford University, and live there, yes... though am not entirely sure whether that is relevant to my post! |
| msatran09-24-07, 11:52 AM | Well, it's my hope that they will retconn all of it. Undo the Sundering completely, get rid of all this nonsense, and reboot completely. I know that sounds insane, but it's really our best chance right now. |
| Burningspear09-24-07, 12:08 PM | I both attend Oxford University, and live there, yes... though am not entirely sure whether that is relevant to my post! Maybe it has to do with the words you use?, not American style 'slang'?... I also live in England, do not attend Oxford, and i do regard my quality of English (incl. pronunciation) as far better then that of the local residents. (no insult meant, just fact.) But anyway, i say, lets whack those WotC'ers, give them a jolly good hiding, and make them run for their money/ lives :plotting: |
| The WarOverlord09-24-07, 12:23 PM | So now Mystra has been killed off to make way for Wizard$ to make more money on an idiotic new realms setting. How will magic work in the new non realms realms? Ding dong Mystra's dead Mystra's dead Mystra's dead Ding Dong the mighty goddess of Magic is dead She's gone where the forgotten godlings go below,below,below... I mean,really. The Weave is an interface to "real Magic" and Mystra was the leash holder of the Magical interface to pacify the arrogant and irresponsible from blowing themselves or the Realms up. If the Mages of the Forgotten Realms can't find a way to tap into the real Magical "ether" or find a new means if drwing magical energy cause they are to used to being spoonfed waterdowned magic via the Weave then they don't deserve to be magic users...yes? No godling of magic means no rules governing the dynamics of Magic....or at least nobody around to seing you dabbling with them anyway...lol |
| customdrapery09-24-07, 12:35 PM | Originally posted by Burningspear Does not change the pure 'idiotisism' (is that even a word .), that Wotc has been throwing around at us since they went 3.5.. Oh, I don't disagree that most of the WOC stuff is awful. I'm still angry that they had to re-do 3.0 with 3.5 (I mean, didn't they play test anything?). What I find is that while TSR was willing to put out books about the Realms and lore without too much edition specific material, the WOC books are full of useless prestige classes and feats. It sort of reminds me of all the cards Magic used to put out that repeated earlier ones with different art and a new name. I just think that AGHotR is actually the closest to a true Realms book that they were willing to publish and while it has it's problems (the art not matching the caption, for instance), it's still better than most. I'm not a huge fan of where they are taking the Realms, but I'm just going to ignore the big changes and keep the Realms how I want them. If the change to 4E needs to kill Mystra, I'm just not going to ever use 4E. Shrug. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-24-07, 01:54 PM | Maybe it has to do with the words you use?, not American style 'slang'?... I also live in England, do not attend Oxford, and i do regard my quality of English (incl. pronunciation) as far better then that of the local residents. (no insult meant, just fact.) I don't know what you're implying here, but everyone has "slang", not just Americans. And there isn't only one set-in-stone pronounciation for many words, even though most people tend to think there is. The OP may not have broken any rules, but I do stand by what I said before: it's not very courteous. |
| MerrikCale09-24-07, 10:34 PM | The OP did absolutely nothing wrong. This information isn't from a novel, so it doesn't require spoilers. I agree. I'm not sure what everyone is carping about |
| Arbourean09-24-07, 10:35 PM | Does having no leash mean non elves can cast high magic? Because I find it absurd they can cast spells that either wipe out empires with a tsumani; eradicate all knowledge of a god thus eradicating them, or rearranging the entire planet. I can just imagine the fun if even more races could cast it. |
| SgtAnjay09-25-07, 12:52 AM | I agree. I'm not sure what everyone is carping about It may not be rule breaking, but its still dickery. |
| MarkusTay6309-25-07, 02:07 AM | Not only is high magic available to everyone now, but even six year olds can form circles and kill gods in 4e. :P Its a brave new world. :cool: |
| Todesherr09-25-07, 02:23 AM | Maybe it has to do with the words you use?, not American style 'slang'?... I also live in England, do not attend Oxford, and i do regard my quality of English (incl. pronunciation) as far better then that of the local residents. (no insult meant, just fact.) But anyway, i say, lets whack those WotC'ers, give them a jolly good hiding, and make them run for their money/ lives :plotting: It has nothing to do with anything; Yanks write quality English sometimes, Englishmen write shite sometimes and vice versa. Na, I was just curious, you know, having an Oxford atendee and all. |
| fitalony09-28-07, 10:18 PM | Nothing like assainating a classic as a petty backhand at its creator for leaving your team. :mad: closing the threshold of freedom and creativity for the players. They are eliminating the reason I left dragonlance for Forgotten Realms. :weep: I for one wont touch a fourth edition book if this is the kind of crap they'll pull. Especially after thier lawsuit against candlekeep.com Nothing like ******* on your fans to put your wallet on a diet:evillaugh |
| MerrikCale09-28-07, 10:31 PM | It may not be rule breaking, but its still dickery. Thats a bit strong |
| The WarOverlord09-28-07, 11:12 PM | Does having no leash mean non elves can cast high magic? Because I find it absurd they can cast spells that either wipe out empires with a tsumani; eradicate all knowledge of a god thus eradicating them, or rearranging the entire planet. I can just imagine the fun if even more races could cast it. The Armageddon Spell is only High end 9th Level at best and pretty much destroys everything and everyone except the Caster. The Spell is usually for "information purposes only" as only an idiot would want to destroy everything and everyone...but Without a Mystra it's knowledge can now be used in the Forgotten Realms Realmspace....lol Knowledge and Power are useless without a double dose of Wisdom |
| Daurgothoth09-29-07, 12:32 AM | You can't be serious if you think that people who read these boards don't already know Mystra has been killed. *Lifts hand...* Didnt know it yet... |
| SgtAnjay09-29-07, 05:58 PM | Thats a bit strongAs with many things, that's relative. If you didn't care about being spoiled, it may well come across as harsh. If you didn't want to be spoiled, however, it is entirely on the mark. The act was, at the very least, arrogant and inconsiderate. |
| Thayth0109-30-07, 12:12 AM | Wow! I don't know what is worst: the fact that WotC couldn't write one CORRECT stat for any of the Chosen of Mystra in the last 15 years or that fact that they are going to kill Mystra and try to make a new edition that is going to suck worst than 3.5? After reading this post I've come to the conculsion that WotC is stealing their money making ways from Sciencetology. I keep putting in money in hopes of learning more about the Realms and the more I put in...the more I feel like it's not working. I'm not sure what they are going to do but as far as I can tell it's just bad. I just find it amazing that the people who can't develop ONE CORRECT STAT are going to ruin the only thing the Realms has going for it. It just sad that a bunch of people who can't write or do basic math are developing this for thousands of people who could just do a better job in general. It's also sad to see something that had such great promise demolished for the sake of sales. I know that people don't like Mystra and that's fine. You don't have to. I'm pretty sure that Shar will kill Cryic in the process. Then Shar will kill Ao and then Shar will be killed by some dumb Psionic...oh well. LONG LIVE TSR!!! |
| MarkusTay6309-30-07, 03:14 AM | The new setting is all about destruction, not creation. You may have actually hit the nail on the head Thayth01 - since they weren't competent enough to write correct stats, they decided to end their embarasment and just kill off Mystra. In fact, now that I think about it, they've always screwed up high-end character stats, so killing them off is a very efficient (and neanderthal-like) method of solving their own inadequacies. Brilliant deduction - my hats off to you. :tiphat: ;) |
| Dark Wizard09-30-07, 04:02 PM | The new setting is all about destruction, not creation. You may have actually hit the nail on the head Thayth01 - since they weren't competent enough to write correct stats, they decided to end their embarasment and just kill off Mystra. In fact, now that I think about it, they've always screwed up high-end character stats, so killing them off is a very efficient (and neanderthal-like) method of solving their own inadequacies. Brilliant deduction - my hats off to you. :tiphat: ;) I'll quote this because it is my thinking as well. The New Realms is too much destruction without replacement for my tastes. It's nihilistic. It abruptly ends most plot hooks and gives nothing new. Not a good way to build a setting or a fan-base. And their way of addressing problems with the Realms by just killing or eradicating anything and everything that doesn't go with their concept of the new Realms is just primitive. Even Hollywood remakes work with the basic concepts of a given property or franchise. They would re-imaging the Chosen of Mystra and Mystra herself rather than get rid of them entirely. Oh, to preempt any counter-arguments and criticisms of what I just said like: "You haven't seen the results of the new changes yet, you can't tell." The new Realms have proved to be all about reduction, reduction, reduction (Points-of-light, deicides, kingdom rearranging, Weave annihilation, Spellplague and death of arcanists). They had plenty of opportunities already to show something constructive about the Realms, but instead all they've done is remove more and more from the Realms. Intelligent, calculated risks of a setting for more fans is one thing, it is a stupid, unnecessary risk for the company to completely sever the established fan-base and hope to reconstruct it with an untested setting at the same time making sure it's good enough and fresh enough to gather new fans. Unfortunately, unless the way WotC handles the Realms changes, after the newness wears off from the changes, it will seem like more of the same old, same old to those who aren't particularly attached to the setting. |
| 18DELTA09-30-07, 05:20 PM | Notice how all the current novels, basically are using a new "hero". Yeah I know Drizzt and El :rolleyes: are still around. I get the impression that they are killing what the old designers did, and are birthing a new thing. Thats stating the obvious huh. Out with the old school, and in with the new school. Look its shiney, its simple, its easy.:rolleyes: Some of the changes I like for D&D, for the Realms, I think its pure overkill now. THEY BETTER BLOW UP EBERRON, LIKE THEY ARE BLOWING UP THE REALMS. Who am I kiding Eberron is the new kid on the block. Its all nice and shiney. Exactly what 13 year old boys like and want.:eek: |
| The WarOverlord10-02-07, 08:38 AM | ...........Who am I kiding Eberron is the new kid on the block. Its all nice and shiney. Exactly what 13 year old boys like and want.:eek: Oh... thought that was snooping around 13-15 year old girls Myspace Pages and Youtube Blogs or looking for unrestricted porn sites :P Nah, My PCs still pretty much live in and retired in 2.0 You don't have to play by the Current eddition Rules or even in the Current Year of the Forgotten Realms Setting. In fact I like the Idea of hanging around in Adventures 10 years before or 10 years after the Time of Troubles. Nobody is twisting your Arm to Play by 4th eddition rules or have to wonder around in the Current Age in the Forgotten Realms (Start of a "Dark Age" maybe?) You can be like mw and have you Adventures "dwell in the past"...lol |
| meto3010-09-07, 05:02 PM | As long as the DM is not particularly into acting like a Zealous Disciple of the Wizards of the Coast, I see no reason in getting so worked up about ridiculous (or are they? The Forgotten Realms is WotC's intellectual property afterall, with all rights) story changes. The DM can simply change stories or replace undesirable history with something else - he is previliged to do so, as he IS in effect the super-god of Aber-Toril rulling the realms with absolute authority, with AO as his regent. I, however, am working on a grand campaign starting on the Year of Lightning Storms which plot will seriously wreck the Realms in a very fundamental level. To my players, I'm worse than GHotR. :) The basic point is that the only real requirement any Campaign should meet is that it has to be fun. PS: This argument sounds a LOT like arguments over the addition of the Drenei as playable race in World of Warcraft, and the immense story change Warcraft underwent just to make this possible. After the Burning Crusade came to stores, the arguments made way to other, equally meaningless debate. |
| Storm_Silverhand10-09-07, 06:48 PM | Heya, PS: This argument sounds a LOT like arguments over the addition of the Drenei as playable race in World of Warcraft, and the immense story change Warcraft underwent just to make this possible. After the Burning Crusade came to stores, the arguments made way to other, equally meaningless debate. Heh. You know, I don't remember the arguments against the Draenei being as vehement as the complaints about the changes in FR. There's a reason for that too - I think there's a stigma attached to people who like Lore in WoW, they end up being tarred with the same brush as Role Players and Males who play Female Avatars. In Dungeons and Dragons, and especially the Campaign Worlds, Lore is far more important, since it enables a DM to make adventures for her players. However, I personally like the idea of the Draenei, and I don't think the changes to lore were as fundamental in order to incorporate them on the Alliance side (what can I say? I have more Draenei characters than Night Elves these days). The other thing is, the introduction of the Draenei was constructive (ie: built upon previous lore, changed a few things, but didn't really take anything away), rather than destructive (which killing Mystra and Helm, the spellplague, and the stupidity of Tyr and Sune, most assuredly is). |
| meto3010-09-07, 07:14 PM | Meant no offense. Sorry. What I was implying was that it was their intellectual property, and thus their right in every aspect to do what they want to do with it, stupid or not. On the other hand, we customers are free to do whatever we want with the finished products, as well. I'm going to ignore every change that I don't like. The 4ed rules look promising, though. And may the curse of ever-clogging-toilets fall upon Rich Baker and the WotC decision to wreck FR with their pan-settingworlds view of pantheon. Is it neccesary for DnD settings to look similar..? PS: I don't know how it worked in other places, but it almost started a lynching campaign in Korea, with multiple servers crashing after repeated access abuse by hundreds of Internet Imsomniacs. I also remember seeing hundreds of level 1 troll corpses in front of Stormwind's gate with character names saying "Long live the Eredar and death to the imposting Drenei" PSS: By the way, I'm human female warrior, and has been playing Warcraft ever since Warcraft 1 went to stores. And just that aspect of my gaming life marks me as an Ohtaku, to be smirked upon and looked down upon by any Korean low-life who feels the need to redeem his self-image within himself. I myself have no problems with Drenei - as I said above, it is Blizzard's intellectual property, not mine. |
| Stigger10-10-07, 07:46 AM | Indeed they can do whatever they want to the Realms, as they own the rights to it. By the same token, I can do whatever I wish with my currency, and can choose to purchase or not to purchase whatever I wish with said currency. That being the case, I say vote your opinion with your dollar/yen/pound/euro/whatever and let them feel your happiness or wrath on their balance sheet... generally works better than anything else to be honest. |
| Ramenth10-10-07, 11:34 AM | Heya, The other thing is, the introduction of the Draenei was constructive (ie: built upon previous lore, changed a few things, but didn't really take anything away), rather than destructive (which killing Mystra and Helm, the spellplague, and the stupidity of Tyr and Sune, most assuredly is). Uhm. One issue with that. Sargeras was good before he found the eredar. The eredar, more than the Nathrezim or any other race, were responsible for his corruption. They're the most evil thing in Warcraft. The only thing it took away was the impetus for the entire plot around the start of Warcraft history. Admitidly, that plot was pretty bad to begin with... but yeah. The irony, of course, was that in the long run the Draenei were just a justification for the alliance getting Shamans, and pre-revisionist Draenei were Shamans. Hells, prerevision they were the ones who taught the Orcs shamanism to begin with,. To have them sudddenly be good... It makes about as much sense as if Shar were to step up and take over Mystras position. |
| Keahi1910-10-07, 05:59 PM | Well I think how they handle all this is what will be what determines whether its good or not. They have a chance to make it really well thought out, or kill it. Personally I want Lanten to ally with Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate and conquer the rest of TOril with their technologically superior weaponry. GOND IS GOD!!!! And riflemen to the front for volley fire on the magic dependent enemy who can't use magic properly. ANDD!!! Fire.... NOW!! |
| Storm_Silverhand10-10-07, 08:24 PM | Heya, Uhm. One issue with that. Sargeras was good before he found the eredar. The eredar, more than the Nathrezim or any other race, were responsible for his corruption. They're the most evil thing in Warcraft. The only thing it took away was the impetus for the entire plot around the start of Warcraft history. Admitidly, that plot was pretty bad to begin with... but yeah. There's no real reason why there couldn't have been multiple factions of the same race. That's one of the problems I have with the idea of "all such and such race are evil" - it is rarely ever true. It's not even realistic for it to be true. There is also no reason why some of the Eredar couldn't have... uh... seen the "light" either. I'm quite a sucker for a redemption story. And it doesn't effect the story at all. Maybe Sargeras only encountered the vile/evil ones? There are plenty of ways it can be explained, and not change what happened to Sargeras in any way. The irony, of course, was that in the long run the Draenei were just a justification for the alliance getting Shamans, and pre-revisionist Draenei were Shamans. Hells, prerevision they were the ones who taught the Orcs shamanism to begin with,. Personally I don't mind the Shaman on Alliance side... But I loathe the Blood Elf story that allows Paladins on Horde. I can see the Blood Elves are supposedly a very intricate and complex race, they have many levels within their own society. They have people who disagree with Kael'thas, you can find them in Silvermoon - sure they're shut up by a priest mind controlling them, but they're there. Hunters turned to nature magic rather than the fel magic others did, and are derided for it. And finally when they get to the Outlands, they find out exactly what King Kael'thas is up to - hence the Scryer's faction in Shattrath... And yet they're Horde, and most of the quests they do are just out and out evil - when we know not all Blood Elves are evil (in fact, not all Horde are evil). I wish they had a faction defection quest, like they do in EQ2. If they did, I'd have brought my Blood Elf over to Alliance without even thinking twice about it, and she'd be my new main. To have them sudddenly be good... It makes about as much sense as if Shar were to step up and take over Mystras position. And your last line here? :) I can see Shar trying for that, I could even see her succeeding (though she only succeeds partially). It's a logical progression from her rivalry/hatred of Mystra. (It doesn't mean I like it, but of the changes they're making to the Realms for 4e, it's the one that makes the most sense.) |
| HateMonger10-10-07, 08:52 PM | Wotc are a bunch of idiots, they've totally messed up the core game mechanics since they've ****** on 2.0. Now they're just going to make the reason whey fans love playing FR diminish for the sake of us buying new merchandise. I feel betrayed by Wotc, I've been an avid supporter for almost 15 years. I can say I'm done with purchasing anymore of their game books. |
| Ramenth10-10-07, 11:27 PM | Its intersting to see WotC be so... uncarring about their fans, especially in such a broad way. Magic has been having issues for the past few years too. With this sort of thing spreading, I've got to wonder who's making the decisions, and what they're smoking. |
| Keahi1910-11-07, 12:19 AM | Well they aren't alone. I mean why do you think the anime fad has grown so large? All the comic book creators betrayed their original fans. It's just becoming a torid little system of betrayel. I really wish it wasn't. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-11-07, 10:33 AM | Indeed they can do whatever they want to the Realms, as they own the rights to it. By the same token, I can do whatever I wish with my currency, and can choose to purchase or not to purchase whatever I wish with said currency. That being the case, I say vote your opinion with your dollar/yen/pound/euro/whatever and let them feel your happiness or wrath on their balance sheet... generally works better than anything else to be honest. Right. WotC is entitled to change the setting, but they aren't entitled to my money. Or anyone else's. |
| Keahi1910-11-07, 10:41 AM | Is there precedent for that in D&D? I haven't been at it long, just three years. Is there an example where they betrayed the owners and sales dropped? (I hear Eberron wasn't too popular.) |
| Alediran10-11-07, 10:53 AM | When D&D went to 2nd edition and they made a GAE (Greyhawkian Apocaliptic Event) |
| Keahi1910-11-07, 11:00 AM | What happened? How did the fans convince them to change it and how? Ummm just need a little details for hope that they aren't completely irrational. |
| Alediran10-11-07, 11:56 AM | MarkusTay should be a better storyteller than me since he was a Greyhawk fan during that time. |
| Zsych10-17-07, 03:07 AM | I have the urge to say this: Mystra is dead. Long Live Mystra! :P |
| faellamos10-17-07, 09:38 AM | You can't be serious if you think that people who read these boards don't already know Mystra has been killed. The only people who read these boards are those of us with a love for the realms and D&D and are usually privy to some things that can't be posted due to nondisclosure agreements I'm a hardcore FR fan. I'm always looking at these forums and i didn't have any clue that Mystra was dead. So thanx, thanx a whole hell of alot for that huge friggin spoiler! Can ne1 besides this idiot tell me what book or adventure this happens in? may as well read/play it, even if the ending is spoiled now. |
| Derren S.10-17-07, 10:39 AM | Can ne1 besides this idiot tell me what book or adventure this happens in? may as well read/play it, even if the ending is spoiled now. Technically it hasn't happened yet. The Grand History of the Realms goes a bit into the future and says that Mystra will be killed in 1385 (or 82). |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-17-07, 10:48 AM | Technically it hasn't happened yet. The Grand History of the Realms goes a bit into the future and says that Mystra will be killed in 1385 (or 82). It's 1385 DR. |
| MaskedOne10-17-07, 06:42 PM | I have the urge to say this: Mystra is dead. Long Live Mystra! :P That's my line, I'm normally more sincere about my desire for Mystra's longevity.:) |
| Zsych10-22-07, 01:58 AM | Where I find the character annoying on several levels, I don't actually want her killed :) Her rise to godhood seems similar to me to the rise of someone like Bush to the presidency. |
| Burningspear10-22-07, 05:02 AM | Where I find the character annoying on several levels, I don't actually want her killed :) Her rise to godhood seems similar to me to the rise of someone like Bush to the presidency. :rofl: |
| JRBlasingame10-22-07, 05:17 PM | And there you go. Gotta love first-class, grade-A, USDA choice prime *****. Even better when someone wont admit it was dickery. Even better when its a post on a topic already being discussed in a bunch of different posts. Even better when the answer to the question posed in the ***** is achingly obvious: Magic will work according to the 4ed D&D magic system. :nonono: Foul language and racial remarks (well country related remarks)....pot and kettle, pot and kettle. |
| SgtAnjay10-22-07, 07:52 PM | Foul language and racial remarks (well country related remarks)....pot and kettle, pot and kettle. :rolleyes: |
| Karsus the Mad10-24-07, 03:30 PM | Where I find the character annoying on several levels, I don't actually want her killed :) Her rise to godhood seems similar to me to the rise of someone like Bush to the presidency. Curses to you Zsych! I was taking a sip of my coffee and read this. Thank you for causing me to stain my white turtle neck. |
| Zsych10-25-07, 03:53 AM | My apologies my friend. |
| Link18210-29-07, 11:52 PM | Ugh. Mystra dies again huh? Thats the best they could come up with? I'm trying to get on board with this 4e thing but it's getting harder and harder. I like the default idea of "points of light in a dark world" for a default D&D setting but seeing the Realms go through another major shakeup for another D&D version is sooooooo tired. No wonder WoW seems more interesting these days. |
| xpochian10-31-07, 02:31 AM | I think I'll wait to see how all of this ends up, as personally I don't want to critique any of the authors before I get a chance to evaluate their work. However, one thing is for certain. If this is the way they intend the Realms to be, I shall be voting my disgust with my wallet. |
| aliira-sunstar10-31-07, 10:09 AM | Hi peeps! Well, I'm a Dm and I'd like some spoilers from GHotR (or any other sources) if anyone is willing...Im really not willing to navigate through a maze of threads and non-FR info! So Mystra dies and what? Does magic become just a flow of energy with no patron deity? Does Elminster die too? Which other famous character are pulled out of the picture? I've read at Enworld that druids aren't being considered for the 8 core classes in the PHB- and was shocked. Can anyone verify this rumour? If so, how would it affect FR? I mean, I can't really imagine a magical world without druids, whatever setting it is. Hoping it's false info. Can anyone outline what 4.0 FR will be like? Will it be full of more fluff or do u guys feel it will be another "errat-style" document (never ever read erratas).I still love my 3.0 FRCS and use it a every session I play. Thx guys, appreciate your guys insights and opinions! |
| Link18210-31-07, 12:23 PM | Considering they way some of the classes have been described, I think they're going to do something new with druids. The designers will probably be making the druid a sort of a "hybrid class". They'll be able to heal like a cleric, but also assume a bear and cat form, allow it to act as a lesser version of a fighter, but also sort of like a rogue...hey wait a second, this all sounds very familiar... I don't know what the 4.0 Realms will be like but I think they're trying to move it toward that "points of light in a dark world" theme. Read the beginning of the newest Drizzt novel, it hints at some crazy stuff. I really think killing Mystra to usher in the new version is so amazingly hackneyed, it almost seems like a joke. They might as well just had her switch bodies with Cyric. Perhaps the Realms has finally "jumped the shark"? |
| Stigger10-31-07, 03:54 PM | Hadn't thought of it in shark jumping terms yet, but that is pretty much where my thoughts were heading. |
| Storm_Silverhand10-31-07, 05:54 PM | Heya, Considering they way some of the classes have been described, I think they're going to do something new with druids. The designers will probably be making the druid a sort of a "hybrid class". They'll be able to heal like a cleric, but also assume a bear and cat form, allow it to act as a lesser version of a fighter, but also sort of like a rogue...hey wait a second, this all sounds very familiar... The idea of druids being able to assume animal forms far and away predates World of Warcraft. In fact, druids were doing it in Dungeons and Dragons well before World of Warcraft was a glimmer in the eyes of its designers. In MMOs that I've had direct experience in, Druids were able to take on Wolf form in EverQuest (now known as EverQuest Live), which also predates World of Warcraft. What am I saying? I'm saying that not everything boils down to WoW. However, I must admit I LOLed at this IRL. :rofl: |
| Karsus the Mad10-31-07, 10:16 PM | What am I saying? Nothing of import since it's not drastically biased in your favor? You simply MUST have real butter on your toast!!!! This margin crap just won't work! I won't have it!....here, take my tea;) I've actually made some australian marmalaide, as taught to me by a friend that you likely know...shoo, shoo....it's yummy, even by the standards of the durned colonials;) |
| GreenKnight11-01-07, 12:01 AM | I'm saying that not everything boils down to WoW. No kidding. The way some people talked, you'd think D&D didn't exist prior to November 2004. |
| Stigger11-01-07, 01:35 AM | News to me... |
| Storm_Silverhand11-01-07, 08:43 AM | Heya, Nothing of import since it's not drastically biased in your favor? You simply MUST have real butter on your toast!!!! This margin crap just won't work! I won't have it!....here, take my tea;) Butter's bad for my cholesterol level... So while I'd rather have butter (it tastes better), I better stick to the ol' cholesterol lowering margarine. *sigh* I've actually made some australian marmalaide, as taught to me by a friend that you likely know...shoo, shoo....it's yummy, even by the standards of the durned colonials;) What is in it to distinguish it from other sorts of marmelaide? (I had lime and ginger marmelaide once, it was super yummy.) |
| ripvanwormer11-02-07, 02:30 AM | Aha! It all makes sense now! (http://www.greyhawkonline.com/wogcomic/title/wogstrip144a.htm) It's a conspiracy! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin11-02-07, 11:49 AM | Aha! It all makes sense now! (http://www.greyhawkonline.com/wogcomic/title/wogstrip144a.htm) It's a conspiracy! Slander! If that's true, I swear I will hunt down and kill Boccob, Wee Jas, and Vecna. |
| MarkusTay6311-02-07, 11:57 AM | LOL - I guess he hasn't seen the bit yet about Our gods and his hanging out together now. He hasn't realized that they ARE doing GH - it's been merged!!! :eek: FR's like the Borg now - "We are the FR design team, resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated..." In the 4e jargon - FR killed GH and took it's stuff. |