Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grinning_Flagg 02-14-08, 01:53 PM	Hello all! *Introduces self* I've recently became aware of whats happened in the realms a few weeks ago and it was surprising to say the least. For those who have even remote intentions of including Midnight's death in their campaigns would you create a new god to take her place? What I'm asking here is for people to share their preferred image of what the supreme god of all magic should be, and then discuss it. This doesn't mean just one god, it could involve existing ones as well.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-14-08, 02:09 PM	Hello all! *Introduces self* I've recently became aware of whats happened in the realms a few weeks ago and it was surprising to say the least. For those who have even remote intentions of including Midnight's death in their campaigns would you create a new god to take her place? What I'm asking here is for people to share their preferred image of what the supreme god of all magic should be, and then discuss it. This doesn't mean just one god, it could involve existing ones as well. I feel I should point out that the designers are getting rid of Mystra precisely because they don't want a supreme god of magic--they've stated that many players feel Mystra dominated the setting, and from their comments they seem to feel much the same way. I guess my point is, why get rid of Mystra in the first place if you are just going to replace her with a similar deity? Also, it seems like the new magic system is based on the idea that you don't need a god behind the scenes controlling everything (for example, Shar no longer will have control over the Shadow Weave).
Grinning_Flagg 02-14-08, 02:19 PM	I'm aware of that, I'm talking about people who don't plan on following WotC's cannon like mindless drones. This isn't a thread for speculation about what's planned for the future but about sharing our own ideas about what we want to be in our own campaigns. This is about an exchange of ideas between the gamers to build on the Realms
Alediran 02-14-08, 02:37 PM	I'll not even kill Mystra II for the canonical line of Realmslore we are begining to create in The Realms Vault. She'll absorb the SW and merge both, creating a new way of casting magic.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-14-08, 03:22 PM	I'm aware of that, I'm talking about people who don't plan on following WotC's cannon like mindless drones. This isn't a thread for speculation about what's planned for the future but about sharing our own ideas about what we want to be in our own campaigns. This is about an exchange of ideas between the gamers to build on the Realms Understood. This is a thread for those who don't necessarily follow what is canon. So, do I have a place in this thread if I say I'm not going to introduce Mystra's death (or the Spellplague) into my Realms at all?:)
Grinning_Flagg 02-14-08, 03:57 PM	I'll not even kill Mystra II for the canonical line of Realmslore we are begining to create in The Realms Vault. She'll absorb the SW and merge both, creating a new way of casting magic. But then we'd miss out on her humorous death at the hands of helm.. Understood. This is a thread for those who don't necessarily follow what is canon. So, do I have a place in this thread if I say I'm not going to introduce Mystra's death (or the Spellplague) into my Realms at all? Everyone has a place in this thread! Whatever keeps it at the top of the forum is is good with me. But there really isn't that much to discuss if Midnight or Mystra are still living it up in Dwemerheart.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-14-08, 04:26 PM	Everyone has a place in this thread! Thanks.:) Whatever keeps it at the top of the forum is is good with me. But there really isn't that much to discuss if Midnight or Mystra are still living it up in Dwemerheart. True. Just figured I'd mention I wasn't going with what's canon in my Realms, for what it's worth.
Markustay 02-14-08, 04:46 PM	Not sure yet - I want to see what they do officially before I make up my mind. Being an ex-GHer, I like Boccob, and Wee Jas would make a nice fit as well. However, I've always been partial to Hecate - much more personal, and feminine. I picture strange witch-cults conducted in out-of-the-way places under the light of a full moon. Maybe a cross between Mystra, Selūne, and Chauntee - something along the lines of Wicca. It would make an interesting new magical tradition for 4e, but I'm not sure how I want to play it yet. I suppose it all depends on what they do with Selūne in canon.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 04:58 PM	I'll probably make new god(ess) or rip them off from somewere for each school, reading MK idea I'll probably have WeeJas as the godess of necromancy and so on...
The_Shaman 02-14-08, 08:26 PM	Hello all! *Introduces self* I've recently became aware of whats happened in the realms a few weeks ago and it was surprising to say the least. For those who have even remote intentions of including Midnight's death in their campaigns would you create a new god to take her place? What I'm asking here is for people to share their preferred image of what the supreme god of all magic should be, and then discuss it. This doesn't mean just one god, it could involve existing ones as well. I'd probably look for a way to restore Mystra, tbh. She had an aspect that most other deities of magic lacked, which was specific to her relation ot the Weave. Unlike other deities, which are administrators and stewards of magic, she literally is magic - the Weave itself, given conscience and form. Thus, I do not think another deity can replace Her nearly well enough.
Storm_Silverhand 02-15-08, 02:23 AM	Heya, Midnight-Mystra won't die in my Realms. She'll avoid Cyric's assassination attempt with a little bit of help from her friends. (I've stated the above a few times before, but I thought I'd state it again for this thread. :)) She will be the one making the changes to the system of magic (her motivation is to make it more "user friendly" and thus encourage the spread of magic), and as such there will be no spell plague either. Also, since there is no Shadow Weave in my version of the Realms, there's no need for me to explain why it goes away, which makes the whole process simpler.
Alediran 02-15-08, 06:14 AM	MT: Boccob feels too boring for me.
Red_Wizard 02-15-08, 08:59 AM	As interested as I still am in seeing all the changes the new Realms have to offer, I, Nor my group have any intent on going 4E in any aspect. There are more than enough un-played plot hooks in the FRCS alone, that buying a new one makes little sense. Besides by the time we catch up to the new realms, 13th edition will be out anyway. That's the one I'm sure we're all really waiting for. ;) :P -RW
Lord Karsus 02-15-08, 09:50 AM	I'm aware of that, I'm talking about people who don't plan on following WotC's cannon like mindless drones. -Said individuals wouldn't randomly kill Mystra, then. ;)
Grinning_Flagg 02-15-08, 01:08 PM	Said individuals wouldn't randomly kill Mystra, then. Still its something to think about, up until now I've only used FR created gods, I used this to put more of myself into a campaign. I find the idea of a post apocalyptic realms appealing actually, I doubt I'm going to buy the new books though I'll probably look them over in the bookstore and take the bits I like. Well this is my own idea of a magic deity. Quixote Greater Deity Portfolios: Magic, Creativity, Invention, Knowledge, Madness and the Unknown Alignment: True Neutral Quixote would come into being much like Mystryl did. As I'd see it when Midnight dies her remains are reabsorbed by Shar and Selune and her Portfolios regarding the weave and magic would disappear entirely when the weave disappears. Selune would ignite a godswar in retribution against Shar for her shenanigans and gods would rally to either side of the conflict. When the two clash Quixote would take form from parts of both of them. The two goddesses would realize they can't attack each other directly, and the war ends in a tense truce for fear that they would completely lose themselves. Shar would lose the shadowweave to the new god when he forms, Quixote disposes of it leaving the Shade and shadowweavers on equal footing with everyone else. Ao would bestow the Portfolios of magic and the weave onto Quitox making him the new god of magic. To deal with the spellplague he would create a new weave that differs from the original so its users could evade the worst of the plague's ravages. Because of how brief the war was, there would be no casualties except the god of drow hating who trips and is felled by his own sword, there was much rejoicing. Quixote would be quite different then his predecessors. He would be noticeably insane, speaking with Shar, Selune, Mystryl, or Mystra despite them being dead or keeping themselves as far removed from him as possible. Quixote and the new weave are affected by the shifting power in the realms, as the strength of the gods that declared for either goddess waxes and wanes the nature of Quixote and the weave are similarly affected. The portions of Mystra that were safeguarded in Azure and the chosen would have been reabsorbed by Shar and Selune and then by Quixote. Azure would be reduced to a demigod and the chosen would similarly be diminished. Quixote would opt to make a new majordomo and raise new chosen for a different purpose then Mystra's. The majority of Quixote's chosen To aid his new Chosen Quixote would install would be picked from a bizarre range of spellcasters with differing and often conflicting views about the nature of magic, a few would be raised in an effort to protect longstanding orders from extinction (Such as the red wizards). This is a reflection of Quixote own belief that the purpose of magic is what the user dictates it to be, that all weavers as as much a part of magic as he is. To aid them, the Chosen would be bestowed powerful knowledge regarding the arcane in addition to part of his divine essence, almost all of his Chosen are driven mad by the transfer. Quixote leaves it up to his Chosen and other worshipers to decide what magic is and what they should do with the power Quixote grants them. Many of the Chosen spread their own views about Quixote, and began cults devoted to him, imagine a batch of Manshoons and Samasters, then you'd have the Chosen of Quixote. Rather then a church, a variety of cults devoted to Quixote are formed, many of them founded by his Chosen, Quixote has no established dogma, because of this Quixote has become very appealing to many clerics and arcanists. Those that followed specific gods for power alone were quick to change to Quixote who had no bias about his worshipers nor what they did with his blessings. Quixote would become increasingly disliked by other gods because of his growing number of followers. A follower of Quixote could be anyone, ranging from the most pious and pure to the most despicable sort which causes problems for others trying to make sense out of the tangled mass of cults and beliefs about the god.
Alediran 02-15-08, 01:26 PM	Not for me, thanks. I always hated Dragonlance's approach to Arcane Spellcasters. I preffer Wizards to be recognized as true heroes too.
Storm_Silverhand 02-15-08, 06:05 PM	Heya, Quixote Greater Deity Portfolios: Magic, Creativity, Invention, Knowledge, Madness and the Unknown Portfolios item two is Lathander's, three is Gond's, four is Oghma's, five was Cyric's. So a number of deities would be weakened. I don't like him. Don't like his name, don't like that he's a he, and don't like what needs to be done to make him. Sorry. :(
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-15-08, 07:07 PM	The name is rather odd. And I have to admit...I don't care for the fact that he's male, either.
Grinning_Flagg 02-15-08, 07:32 PM	I didn't really think he'd be popular *comforts Quixote* "there there son, don't listen to them they're just jealous that they didn't think you up first." I added two through three because they belonged to Mystryl when she was born, I didn't think Madness was really a Portfolio and I never read of Cyric having it except in Charles Phipps version of the realms. The name is supposed to be a reference to Don Quixote but I pronounce my god's name as Quicks-oat instead of Key-hoe-tay. Quixote is meant to be genderless, I just call him a he instead of she or s/he or it, I thought it was time for a change. I thought it would be an interesting idea that Shar and Selune can't attack each other, being the most extreme of the opposing elements they would simply cancel each other out, with Mystra completely destroyed it made sense to me that a new one would appear much as the original one.
Storm_Silverhand 02-16-08, 06:51 PM	Heya, *comforts Quixote* "there there son, don't listen to them they're just jealous that they didn't think you up first." :rolleyes: :P :D I added two through three because they belonged to Mystryl when she was born, I didn't think Madness was really a Portfolio and I never read of Cyric having it except in Charles Phipps version of the realms. The name is supposed to be a reference to Don Quixote but I pronounce my god's name as Quicks-oat instead of Key-hoe-tay. Quixote is meant to be genderless, I just call him a he instead of she or s/he or it, I thought it was time for a change. I thought it would be an interesting idea that Shar and Selune can't attack each other, being the most extreme of the opposing elements they would simply cancel each other out, with Mystra completely destroyed it made sense to me that a new one would appear much as the original one. Well those portfolios are already spoken for, so a new deity arising in the same manner as Mystryl wouldn't have them, since they're already spoken for... You know, greater gods already possess portfolios, so therefore any other deity possessing those portfolio elements needs to be lesser/subordinate to them... So from that respect it's not possible without removing those elements from the deities that already possess them. I definitely got the reference from the name (and thanks a lot for getting that old Nik Kershaw song Don Quixote in my head! :P Actually, I'm rather glad it was that than the music from the ballet that my mother always used to listen to in the morning... Not that it was bad music, just that I heard it once too often in my youth) - but somehow I don't see this deity tilting at windmills. Also, it seems I made a classic mistake with Cyric... You're right regarding the portfolio element of Madness.
Grinning_Flagg 02-16-08, 08:40 PM	it seems I made a classic mistake with Cyric... You're right regarding the portfolio element of Madness. I was unsure of it myself, I thought it was an odd thing for Cyric to pick up, as all of his portfolios were acquired second hand. But its a reasonable mistake since Cyric seems to be the only god pushing the madness angle... Until now! Well those portfolios are already spoken for, so a new deity arising in the same manner as Mystryl wouldn't have them, since they're already spoken for... You know, greater gods already possess portfolios, so therefore any other deity possessing those portfolio elements needs to be lesser/subordinate to them... So from that respect it's not possible without removing those elements from the deities that already possess them. I'll think up new portfolios, or just take more from Mystra, like Spells and the Weave. but somehow I don't see this deity tilting at windmills. I agree entirely that it's difficult to see a god, even a crazy one, assaulting a windmill. His Chosen however are a different matter. Several of Quixote's Chosen could quite possibly be even more deranged then the god himself, as I said about them before, they were selected for a variety of views on magic. It wouldn't do the god any good if they didn't really believe their ideals so the Chosen would be devoted followers of their philosophies, naturally these ideals have become warped somewhat due to insanity, mingled with immense arcane power makes them all the more dangerous. The majority of them don't mean to be malicious in their actions and often don't realize when they do cause harm. The Chosen are meant to be the Don Quixotes, they wish to make all of Toril see what they see. Although not caught up in the the romance of noble deeds the Chosen would have difficulty distinguishing between reality and their perfect image of what the world should be.
Andrekan 02-16-08, 08:59 PM	the SCEPTER OF THE SORCERER-KING
Storm_Silverhand 02-17-08, 02:17 AM	Heya, I agree entirely that it's difficult to see a god, even a crazy one, assaulting a windmill. His Chosen however are a different matter. Several of Quixote's Chosen could quite possibly be even more deranged then the god himself, as I said about them before, they were selected for a variety of views on magic. It wouldn't do the god any good if they didn't really believe their ideals so the Chosen would be devoted followers of their philosophies, naturally these ideals have become warped somewhat due to insanity, mingled with immense arcane power makes them all the more dangerous. The majority of them don't mean to be malicious in their actions and often don't realize when they do cause harm. The Chosen are meant to be the Don Quixotes, they wish to make all of Toril see what they see. Although not caught up in the the romance of noble deeds the Chosen would have difficulty distinguishing between reality and their perfect image of what the world should be. So who do sane spell casters worship?
18DELTA 02-17-08, 03:02 AM	the SCEPTER OF THE SORCERER-KING -:uh-huh: :nonono: :bored: :banghead: :twitch: :shifty: :blink: :doh: :gah: What does this have to do with what is being disscussed?:confused: ;) -I plan on keeping "Mystra"!:) 18DELTA:rofl:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-17-08, 06:40 PM	I didn't really think he'd be popular *comforts Quixote* "there there son, don't listen to them they're just jealous that they didn't think you up first." LOL I added two through three because they belonged to Mystryl when she was born, I didn't think Madness was really a Portfolio and I never read of Cyric having it except in Charles Phipps version of the realms. The name is supposed to be a reference to Don Quixote but I pronounce my god's name as Quicks-oat instead of Key-hoe-tay. Quixote is meant to be genderless, I just call him a he instead of she or s/he or it, I thought it was time for a change. I thought it would be an interesting idea that Shar and Selune can't attack each other, being the most extreme of the opposing elements they would simply cancel each other out, with Mystra completely destroyed it made sense to me that a new one would appear much as the original one. I figured the name was a play on Don Quixote. That being said, I didn't get the impression that this particular god was all that quixotic. Personally, I prefer the goddess of magic being a female, because that's how it's always been in the Realms, and because...well, I like the idea of a powerful female goddess of magic. *shrug*
Grinning_Flagg 02-18-08, 02:04 PM	So who do sane spell casters worship? I only spoke about the insane followers of Quixote because I would imagine that they would stick out more. Although there are many legitimate crazes (the population has spiked some since the spellplague) and people just joining the latest fad (I like to think of them as cult fodder), There's always people worshiping gods for the sake of power alone, although primarily associated with evil gods, I'm sure they worm their way into all faiths. many of these would transfer their prayers to Quixote because he doesn't impose any restrictions about worship or what they do with his blessings. Quixote has no grand design beyond spreading magic, he leaves it up to others to decide what that means. Imagine a Jehovah's Witness trying to get you to convert to god, instead of giving you a pamphlet he hands you a catalog describing all faiths of the world and explains he just wants you to get involved, Quixote stands for whatever it is the person believes(Something vaguely to do with magic). Those that followed Mystra would either keep praying for their goddess to return or switch to Quixote and apply his name to their beliefs, maybe worship Azure instead. Personally, I prefer the goddess of magic being a female, because that's how it's always been in the Realms, and because...well, I like the idea of a powerful female goddess of magic. *shrug* The whole goddess of magic bit was getting a little dull, by not making Quixote female I was trying to make him a bit more alien. When I'm in a campaign with the objective of putting down a Banite plot, I feel as though I'm attacking The black lord himself. I get a similar feeling whenever a church of any god becomes involved in a plot as though the deity is actively participating. Quixote would exist but still not really seem to be there, he has no agenda beyond spreading magic, he doesn't scheme against other deities or even dislike any of them. Quixote exists through his Chosen and worshipers, they are him (one or two would actually think they're Quixote), whatever they do he does. A Chosen risen from the ruins of Thay could believe without a doubt that all sorcerers are abominations and would share the magic of Thay with with non-Thayans to install his belief into them and to rebuild his country. Another Chosen allied with the Harpers and their allies hear rumors of this mad wizard and rally a force to protect fleeing sorcerers from his followers. Elsewhere, many servants of Quixote have come to see the Highmagic of the elves as an affront to their god and declare a holy war against these elven heretics. Quixote would be an extremely flexible god who I could apply to any campaign I wanted and fill any role in it, maybe all the roles at once.
Alediran 02-18-08, 02:09 PM	Poor followers of Quixote, a simple High Magic Spell can wipe them out of the face of Faerūn, it can even imprison their god (Moander knows it well)
Soltares 02-18-08, 03:04 PM	The Simbul would make an interesting goddess of magic, as chaotic as her progenitor was good, and her progenitor before that was lawful. Elemental, fey, hot-tempered and passionate, as much servant to the power that burns through her as it's master. And with her becoming a primal elemental force (Air, Earth, Fire, Water and Magic), lesser 'powers' would arise, less god, more saint, devoted to the various schools of magic. Velsharoon and Savras and Lleira, for instance, but also Azuth, patrons of book-learnin' wizards, along with new 'powers' who patronize the arts of conjuration and evocation and enchantment, as well as powers related to aspects of magic outside of the 'eight schools,' such as shadow magic or alchemy. With no active overgod to dictate how they interact with each other, these not-really-gods, each sharing a shard of the domain of magic, would bicker and compete and intrigue, with alliances forming and dissolving, some hoping to secure more of the domain's power and influence, and others merely trying to maintain the balance and keep any one aspect of magic from rising to dominate and force out others, recognizing the strength that has come from this wild new versatility, the new proliferation of magical arts.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-19-08, 08:41 PM	The whole goddess of magic bit was getting a little dull, by not making Quixote female I was trying to make him a bit more alien. I get that you were trying to be different (for this setting, at least--there are TONS of deities of magic, in other settings, who are male), but "alien"? Not to me, as I don't consider masculinity to be particularly alien.:) On second thought...maybe it's a little alien, since I will never be male, and thus will never know what it's like. ;) Men are from Mars, after all...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-19-08, 08:43 PM	The Simbul would make an interesting goddess of magic, as chaotic as her progenitor was good, and her progenitor before that was lawful. And her progenitor was...chaotic! Sorry, I just couldn't resist.:)
GothicDan 02-19-08, 08:51 PM	I would love to see the Simbul become a magic goddess, with Azuth to sort of 'balance' her Chaoticness.
Lord Karsus 02-19-08, 09:02 PM	-Boo...No more deities of magic.
The_Shaman 02-20-08, 03:56 PM	I would love to see the Simbul become a magic goddess, with Azuth to sort of 'balance' her Chaoticness. I don't like it, truth be told. Mystra, as the Divine Magic, has a mandate - heck, a duty - to spread magic whatever it takes, whether she likes what it entails or not. I don't see the Simbul fitting that job description, truth be told. I like the her just the way she is - doing what she wants, how she wants, when she wants: an awe-inspiring whirlwind of magic in a woman's body (some of the time). She could work great as a herald or divine ally of the new deity of magic, but I think another of the Seven could do better in the boss seat.
buzzard 02-20-08, 04:22 PM	Poor followers of Quixote, a simple High Magic Spell can wipe them out of the face of Faerūn Novel-wise sure, mechanically I don't know how high the DC for an Epic Spell that can do such thing would be, in any case, many of the targets of the spell would make the required saving throw thus allowing the deity to survive and locate whomever might have created such a spell. This would give the deity the possibility to send an avatar or a powerful aspect (preferably the first) to quickly dispatch anyone foolish enough to try such a thing again. it can even imprison their god (Moander knows it well) Not possible on 3.0/3.5 (against any deity that is not a demigod or quasi-deity). We'll have to wait until 4th Edition to arrive to any conclusion :P
Soltares 02-21-08, 12:18 PM	Not possible on 3.0/3.5 (against any deity that is not a demigod or quasi-deity). We'll have to wait until 4th Edition to arrive to any conclusion :P In 4th edition we are supposed to be fighting, killing and replacing gods by 30th level, so I'm sure there will be ways to do other things to them. The Mystra-1000 will be made out of liquid magic and be able to reform herself into any magical effect she wants. She can't be reasoned with. And she never, ever stops.