Mystra's Cap [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mystra's Cap [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Telagaunt
03-16-08, 11:38 PM With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells?
ywhtptgtfo
03-17-08, 12:49 AM With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells?

Well, what do you think? After all, we already know that almost all important aspects of 1-3E have been scrapped thanks to Hasbro/WotC.
Red_Wizard
03-17-08, 11:04 AM It seems likely that they'll be back, as the core levels now go to 30, instead of 20, and they'll have to make those levels interesting somehow.

And besides, does it matter what powers you have available to you anymore. I mean everyone is a deity at 30th level, so hurrah no worries about anything game breaking needed.

Now, if you'll ecuse me, I must get back to elementary school so as to try and fit in. Need to sink to the new target demographic mentality before the games dazzeling inception if I hope to play 4e without vomitting avery three seconds.

-RW
Alediran
03-17-08, 11:20 AM 25th level spells will be the equivalent of 9th lvl spells. The last five are going to be the "epic" spells. They changed everything so nothing changes.
MarkusTay63
03-17-08, 02:48 PM Alediran had the 'right' of it...

With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells?Spells now go up to 25th level (although now I'm hearing rumours about 30th levels spells, which actually makes more sense, given the PC levels).

Mystra's ban only affected spells that relied on the weave. That is probably why PCs couldn't make Artifacts anymore - Artifacts require 'pure' Arcane power, not that filtered-through-the-Waeve cr@p.

Basically, I've always looked at it like this - it was all propaganda by the church of Mystra! Mystra's priesthood convinced everyone that the weave was'best' early on (like the Netherease), and after the fall of Netheril, they switched it to the "one and only methos" of casting, which we know from canon (Shadow magic, Hishna magic, etc...) is an outright LIE. Spells above 9th level require Eoic 'seeds'... but only if you use the Weave! I think Netherease Arcanists working above 9th level realized that, and were tinkering around with other methods of casting (like the Shades).

All that stuff about 'Heavy Magic' was just Karsus trying to figure out how to manipulate Arcane energy WITHOUT the weave.
________________________________________ ___________________________________

Another thing - this may help to rectify some of the inconsistencies between the Netherease fall, the ToT, and the Spellplague.

The Mythallars tapped DIRECTLY into the Weave, relying on it to power their devices and magics (psuedo-magical devices). When the Weave goes down, Mythallar-based magic goes BOOM! All 'real' magic (permanent magical devices, spells) go mostly unaffected, because the only used the weave to be cast, not to maintain their integrity.

That means most magical devices will behave normally during the ToT and the Spellplague, but direct casting becomes a problem (No Weave). The effects were so much worse during the Fall of Netheril (Karsus' Folly), because almost all of Netherease magic NEEDED the Weave to power their Psudeo-magical (Weave-based) stuff.

I always use the Internet and cmputers as an analogy when thinking about Macic. The Weave = Windows (with all its myriad versions), and for the most part spells and magical devices are backwards-compatible (Mystra's one helluva programmer). Once 'created', magical effects no longer rely on the Weave (windows) - they are 'uploaded' to the Internet (Magiverse?), and remain there, even if your local CPU (World) crashes.

The problem is, Psuedo-magical dweomers and effects run LOCALLY - in the Weave - and cannot exist without it. Its like the difference between playing a game on your computer, and playing one online. When your computer crashes, you lose EVERYTHING, but if you play online, your account and all your stuff still exists.

So Mages learned from the fall of Netheril, and no longer use Psuedo-Magical devices, knowing full well what happens when the Weave gives you the Cerulean Screen of Death. :D

The Drow took a long time to learn that, although their devices were Faezress-based, rather then Weave-based. Either way, they eventually learned the limitations of Psuedo-magical devices and switched over to the real deal as well.
Meldread
03-17-08, 06:17 PM MarkusTay63-

That is pretty much how I have always viewed the Weave, and how I think Ed pretty much saw it as well. There have always been other methods of using magic (table magic, gem magic, the Maztica types of magic, and of course Psionics) that didn't rely on the Weave. Everyone simply used the Weave because it was simple, it was free, and it was widely understood and available. Once the Weave broke they all had to convert to something new.

I had a post awhile back (maybe a year or so ago) talking about the possibilities of bypassing the Weave entirely and trying to cast using Raw Magic. I tried to develop a casting system for it that involved the risk / danger of drawing upon raw magic as well as the potential benefits.

It is also one of the reasons I never had a problem with the Shadow Weave. There really was no reason why Shar couldn't have created it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Telagaunt 03-16-08, 11:38 PM	With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells?
ywhtptgtfo 03-17-08, 12:49 AM	With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells? Well, what do you think? After all, we already know that almost all important aspects of 1-3E have been scrapped thanks to Hasbro/WotC.
Red_Wizard 03-17-08, 11:04 AM	It seems likely that they'll be back, as the core levels now go to 30, instead of 20, and they'll have to make those levels interesting somehow. And besides, does it matter what powers you have available to you anymore. I mean everyone is a deity at 30th level, so hurrah no worries about anything game breaking needed. Now, if you'll ecuse me, I must get back to elementary school so as to try and fit in. Need to sink to the new target demographic mentality before the games dazzeling inception if I hope to play 4e without vomitting avery three seconds. -RW
Alediran 03-17-08, 11:20 AM	25th level spells will be the equivalent of 9th lvl spells. The last five are going to be the "epic" spells. They changed everything so nothing changes.
MarkusTay63 03-17-08, 02:48 PM	Alediran had the 'right' of it... With 4E, and Mystra dead, what happens with the 10th+ level spell cap? Have devs or anyone made any comment about this (and/or maybe it's relevant to the 4E spellcasting system) ? And any word on how 4E will change epic spells?Spells now go up to 25th level (although now I'm hearing rumours about 30th levels spells, which actually makes more sense, given the PC levels). Mystra's ban only affected spells that relied on the weave. That is probably why PCs couldn't make Artifacts anymore - Artifacts require 'pure' Arcane power, not that filtered-through-the-Waeve cr@p. Basically, I've always looked at it like this - it was all propaganda by the church of Mystra! Mystra's priesthood convinced everyone that the weave was'best' early on (like the Netherease), and after the fall of Netheril, they switched it to the "one and only methos" of casting, which we know from canon (Shadow magic, Hishna magic, etc...) is an outright LIE. Spells above 9th level require Eoic 'seeds'... but only if you use the Weave! I think Netherease Arcanists working above 9th level realized that, and were tinkering around with other methods of casting (like the Shades). All that stuff about 'Heavy Magic' was just Karsus trying to figure out how to manipulate Arcane energy WITHOUT the weave. ________________________________________ ___________________________________ Another thing - this may help to rectify some of the inconsistencies between the Netherease fall, the ToT, and the Spellplague. The Mythallars tapped DIRECTLY into the Weave, relying on it to power their devices and magics (psuedo-magical devices). When the Weave goes down, Mythallar-based magic goes BOOM! All 'real' magic (permanent magical devices, spells) go mostly unaffected, because the only used the weave to be cast, not to maintain their integrity. That means most magical devices will behave normally during the ToT and the Spellplague, but direct casting becomes a problem (No Weave). The effects were so much worse during the Fall of Netheril (Karsus' Folly), because almost all of Netherease magic NEEDED the Weave to power their Psudeo-magical (Weave-based) stuff. I always use the Internet and cmputers as an analogy when thinking about Macic. The Weave = Windows (with all its myriad versions), and for the most part spells and magical devices are backwards-compatible (Mystra's one helluva programmer). Once 'created', magical effects no longer rely on the Weave (windows) - they are 'uploaded' to the Internet (Magiverse?), and remain there, even if your local CPU (World) crashes. The problem is, Psuedo-magical dweomers and effects run LOCALLY - in the Weave - and cannot exist without it. Its like the difference between playing a game on your computer, and playing one online. When your computer crashes, you lose EVERYTHING, but if you play online, your account and all your stuff still exists. So Mages learned from the fall of Netheril, and no longer use Psuedo-Magical devices, knowing full well what happens when the Weave gives you the Cerulean Screen of Death. :D The Drow took a long time to learn that, although their devices were Faezress-based, rather then Weave-based. Either way, they eventually learned the limitations of Psuedo-magical devices and switched over to the real deal as well.
Meldread 03-17-08, 06:17 PM	MarkusTay63- That is pretty much how I have always viewed the Weave, and how I think Ed pretty much saw it as well. There have always been other methods of using magic (table magic, gem magic, the Maztica types of magic, and of course Psionics) that didn't rely on the Weave. Everyone simply used the Weave because it was simple, it was free, and it was widely understood and available. Once the Weave broke they all had to convert to something new. I had a post awhile back (maybe a year or so ago) talking about the possibilities of bypassing the Weave entirely and trying to cast using Raw Magic. I tried to develop a casting system for it that involved the risk / danger of drawing upon raw magic as well as the potential benefits. It is also one of the reasons I never had a problem with the Shadow Weave. There really was no reason why Shar couldn't have created it.