Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-22-07, 06:44 PM	Where were the Scrolls stored during the time the Netherese possessed them? What were the security measures like that the thieves had to overcome? After the first theift what kind of security measures were put in place to prevent the second theft? What kind of access did the typical arcanist have to the scrolls? Did one have to be an Archwizard to view the scrolls? Or could even a novice get access to the scrolls? If so what parts were shared? Could they see all the scrolls or only a few at a time?:confused: I know all of these questions can’t be answered from published materials. I’m asking our Netherese experts to make a best guess with what we know about Netherese culture.:cool: I have some ideas of my own, but I’m interested to know what everyone else thinks. What I really want to know is what kind of access did the average magic user have to the Scrolls?:)
Stigger 02-22-07, 07:23 PM	Unless you were an Enclave Master, I doubt most Netherese mages would have had access at all... obviously some exceptions would have existed, but it seems a sensible base point. As to security... whatever the fiendish minds of Archmages could come up with. Probably more guarded against other mages than anything else, so possibly it would be easier for a non-mage to get to them considering the at best condescending attitude the Netherese Archmages had for non-mages, clerics included in that condescension it seems at times.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 03:23 AM	Unless you were an Enclave Master, I doubt most Netherese mages would have had access at all... obviously some exceptions would have existed, but it seems a sensible base point. As to security... whatever the fiendish minds of Archmages could come up with. Probably more guarded against other mages than anything else, so possibly it would be easier for a non-mage to get to them considering the at best condescending attitude the Netherese Archmages had for non-mages, clerics included in that condescension it seems at times. What about the Archwizard of doubloon enclave? She was a renegade? Do you think she would have been allowed access? I ask because I’m planning on using her.
Stigger 02-23-07, 03:40 AM	Possible... at least a couple perhaps, but it wouldn't really be all that likely given the circumstances of her creating the enclave and who she chose to ally herself from the beginning. She might have been sneaky enough at the beginning to conceal it from the others just long enough to get a look at a few though, she seems like a pretty resourceful lady. Hell, possible she even stole a few of the one set the Netherese had left... wouldn't put that past her based on what little there is on her.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 02:42 PM	Possible... at least a couple perhaps, but it wouldn't really be all that likely given the circumstances of her creating the enclave and who she chose to ally herself from the beginning. She might have been sneaky enough at the beginning to conceal it from the others just long enough to get a look at a few though, she seems like a pretty resourceful lady. Hell, possible she even stole a few of the one set the Netherese had left... wouldn't put that past her based on what little there is on her. That’s very true! She might have snagged up a few of the scrolls. Maybe that’s why Karsus was so hell bent on capturing her. They never did any Stats on her. Not even a stat line. Which bugs me cuz no I have to create her from scratch. You think she had some levels as a thief? You know what I want to know?!? Why 3rd edition ignored the fact that Doubloon was not present at the fall and there for likely to have survived the fall of Netheril?
Stigger 02-23-07, 03:17 PM	Not sure really... could be an interesting question. Could be why Mask has been so active lately... that hidden card up his sleeve... lots of potential there really. Could perhaps salvage that whole storyline if handled correctly.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 03:23 PM	Not sure really... could be an interesting question. Could be why Mask has been so active lately... that hidden card up his sleeve... lots of potential there really. Could perhaps salvage that whole storyline if handled correctly. Mask is the God of shadows. Maybe they have Shades on doubloon as well? Maybe the Archwizard is still around as a Shade. I hate to use that though.
Stigger 02-23-07, 03:28 PM	Was more thinking Mask, god of thieves, rather than the shadow part of him.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 03:43 PM	Was more thinking Mask, god of thieves, rather than the shadow part of him. Yeah but he is both. Would be interesting. Who held the thief portfolio when Netheril was at it height? Was it Shar? Or somebody else? Regardless would make for an interesting Novel or mega adventure. One that doesn’t destroy El and sake Shadow Dale AGAIN! gerr. Leave that little town allow writers!
Stigger 02-23-07, 06:26 PM	Don't think anyone held that portfolio per se actually.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 06:54 PM	Don't think anyone held that portfolio per se actually. Naa. I looked it up. Shar held the portfolios of Thieves and Thievery during the time of Netheril. Although the Archwizard of Doubloon enclave was probably like most archwizards of the time and disdained divine worship. Although the counterfeiters of the Enclave probably paid homage to Shar. I wish there was more information on where Doubloon ended up. I was thinking of having it run aground on a Prime Material world similar to Earth during the Roman era. After 2000 years the survivors would have significantly influenced the culture of the world. Think MEGA-magical Rome! Or I was thinking of putting them in the Astral plane. Unable to return to Abeir-Toril because most of the Citizens will turn to ash as soon as they arrive. I don’t know. What do you think? How would you bring them back into play in the Realms?
Stigger 02-23-07, 07:08 PM	Supposedly it was some fiendish realm Shadow discovered from what I recall of the entry, but the alternate prime could work pretty well too... Astral seems a bit shaky as they'd have certainly come into conflict with the gith by now and would at least be somewhat known to certain arcane types. FR mage types do seem to enjoy the jaunts into the planes after a certain point before coming back home and settling down for some reason... As to how to bring them back into play... hard to say without bringing too much cheese to the table. Presumably they would have been fairly well into the illusion sorts of schools to help with the counterfeiting thing, so you could use them as a vehicle to bring back Leira maybe, have them show up over Nimbral and use it as a launching point for her renewed church... and getting into a bit of a tussle with Halruaa over it... but that seems a bit cheesy too really. Maybe over the southern Sword Coast to bring the beat down on the Cyricists in Darkhold and Amn... and maybe doing a bit to undermine old Lord Shadow in revenge for helping Karsus banish them in the first place... dunno really, there's a lot of options, but making it plausible could be kinda tough.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-23-07, 07:16 PM	Supposedly it was some fiendish realm Shadow discovered from what I recall of the entry, but the alternate prime could work pretty well too... Astral seems a bit shaky as they'd have certainly come into conflict with the gith by now and would at least be somewhat known to certain arcane types. FR mage types do seem to enjoy the jaunts into the planes after a certain point before coming back home and settling down for some reason... As to how to bring them back into play... hard to say without bringing too much cheese to the table. Presumably they would have been fairly well into the illusion sorts of schools to help with the counterfeiting thing, so you could use them as a vehicle to bring back Leira maybe, have them show up over Nimbral and use it as a launching point for her renewed church... and getting into a bit of a tussle with Halruaa over it... but that seems a bit cheesy too really. Maybe over the southern Sword Coast to bring the beat down on the Cyricists in Darkhold and Amn... and maybe doing a bit to undermine old Lord Shadow in revenge for helping Karsus banish them in the first place... dunno really, there's a lot of options, but making it plausible could be kinda tough. Well it was said they just vanished! Some assumed that the Archwizard of the city found a way to clock or hide the city. Others believed that Karsus transported it away to a demi-plane. I think that was probably propaganda on his part because he didn’t know what became of the city. The astral plane is infinite. They could spend 10 thousand years there and never run into the Gith. You could hide an entire prime material world in the Astral plane. Remember the deep Astral is largly unexplored and left that way. Even the Gith fear to tread to far from their places of power. At least according to Plane Scape. I love that campaigning setting!
Stigger 02-23-07, 07:20 PM	Good point on the Astral I suppse, kinda forgot about that. Never was much into the astral though. It does tend to limit your options a bit sticking them there from what little I recall of it. Personally I'd say the alternate prime or demi-plane thing made life a bit easier story-wise, so would be a better way to go with it.
MarkusTay63 02-24-07, 02:04 AM	Or, they could have escaped to the plane of Radiance, and be Shades Polar opposites. :D Although I'd prefer that for the Chronomancer, the ONLY altruistic Netherese Mage. But he's in charge of Chronal-Prime, the plane of time. Reports of his death were greatly exagerrated... ;) Where'd you guys read the stuff about Doubloon, I don't rememder it. Also, she sounds like she might have been smart enough to pilfer a few when she was the head of an enclave. Having permission to view them, she had an opportunity to replace a few with forgeries. Then when the thieves stole those copies and crushed them up for the gold, they were REALLY the fake ones. :devil:
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-24-07, 03:45 AM	Or, they could have escaped to the plane of Radiance, and be Shades Polar opposites. :D Although I'd prefer that for the Chronomancer, the ONLY altruistic Netherese Mage. But he's in charge of Chronal-Prime, the plane of time. Reports of his death were greatly exagerrated... ;) Where'd you guys read the stuff about Doubloon, I don't rememder it. Also, she sounds like she might have been smart enough to pilfer a few when she was the head of an enclave. Having permission to view them, she had an opportunity to replace a few with forgeries. Then when the thieves stole those copies and crushed them up for the gold, they were REALLY the fake ones. :devil: The information about Doubloon is in Netheril: Empire of Magic the 2nd edition box set. Seeing as Doubloon was a renegade Enclave by the Golden age. So I don’t know if the officials at Seventown would have allowed Tempera of Fenwick to view the scrolls.:( That was her name by the way. She was a crafty Archwizard with access to a lot of sneaky thieves so she might have been able to pull off the theft and replace them with forgeries. I mean that was the reason everyone was ******; the Doubloon Enclave’s ability to forge the empires coinage. So forging the Nether Scrolls would have been cake! Thanks Markus for a great idea!:D
Stigger 02-24-07, 04:46 PM	Interesting thought... I smell evil afoot!
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-25-07, 03:48 AM	Evil indeed!
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-25-07, 07:24 PM	So is there anyone out there that can answer some of the questions at the beginning of this thread? Or at least offer a plausible theory? Imagination is welcome! Keep the joke theories to a minimum.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-27-07, 01:18 AM	Come on people! Anyone got anything?
Xavier_of_Cormyr 02-27-07, 01:22 AM	I believe Ioulaum possessed them & then "loaned" them to Karsus. The novels of the Netheril Trilogy had more info, but I read them a loooooong ass time ago.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-27-07, 02:31 AM	I believe Ioulaum possessed them & then "loaned" them to Karsus. The novels of the Netheril Trilogy had more info, but I read them a loooooong ass time ago. I think Ioulaum has but 10 of the scrolls. The question I really want to know is who was responsible for them during the height of Netheril? I think they were stored in Seventon. Which never made sense because low Netheril was more likely to suffer attacks.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 01:45 AM	Anyone have any ideas?:detect: :globe: :ton: :waits: :surrender :allalone:
Xavier_of_Cormyr 02-28-07, 12:12 PM	I'd say all signs point to Karsus & Iolaum having complete say over them. As far as they're disappearance, I have two theories- 1- they were stolen by the elves 2- Iolaum faked the theft to secure them away (perhaps knowing what things where to come)
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 03:45 PM	I'd say all signs point to Karsus & Iolaum having complete say over them. As far as they're disappearance, I have two theories- 1- they were stolen by the elves 2- Iolaum faked the theft to secure them away (perhaps knowing what things where to come) Karsus never got them to his enclave. They were stolen in route. I believe by Ioulaum! I think he was staring to realize Karsus was a bad apple. The ones being transported to the Karsus where not a complete set however. That particular set was split by an earlier thief from Ioulaum’s enclave. No one knows why they decided to steal them and destroy them. Which means Ioulaum probably has between 20 and 24 scrolls at this time. The elves did steal one complete set which I believe they still have. Leaving about half of the first set unaccounted for and probably split up at various locations. So about 26 scrolls either destroyed or floating around out there. Unless the destroyed scrolls were forgeries. It’s not tough to find the scrolls current locations. What I want to know is where were they kept during the height of Netherils power and who had access? Only the encloave rulers? That would make the other arcanists really angry. They would fight over them if they were in someone’s enclave. The only reason Ioulaum had a set in his enclave was due to his status as a hero of Netheril. So I imagine the other set was probably kept at a neutral site like Seventon. Where the nation was born. This is what I have come up with in my research thus far. What I’m asking is if anyone has anything different?
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 12:24 PM	Anything?:D
Wizard56 03-04-07, 10:08 AM	According to the Myth Drannor sourcebook, the elves stole the first set and converted them into another form, a magical metal tree with a bird in it. It is mentioned in the last chapter. There was no info on what happened to that item when the city fell. Likely it was removed to somewhere else, possibly Evermeet. It's possible the elves also stole the second set as well. References have turned up concerning the discovery of certain parts of that set. The book "The Netehr Scroll" mentions some of that.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-04-07, 02:29 PM	According to the Myth Drannor sourcebook, the elves stole the first set and converted them into another form, a magical metal tree with a bird in it. It is mentioned in the last chapter. There was no info on what happened to that item when the city fell. Likely it was removed to somewhere else, possibly Evermeet. It's possible the elves also stole the second set as well. References have turned up concerning the discovery of certain parts of that set. The book "The Netehr Scroll" mentions some of that. The complete set the elves stole is still in Myth Dannor. The varoise guardians in the city prevented the scrolls theft and according to all the source books they are still there. However now that Myth Dannor has been reclaimed by the Elves of Evermeet. I wonder about those particular scrolls locations. Lorlock has at least 10 scrolls. I don’t believe the second thief was committed by the elves. The first thief was merely inquisitive on the part of the elves. They wanted to find out how a human nation had advanced their knowledge of the art so quickly. It was merely a security precaution by the elves. The second and third thefts were either committed by Iouluam, Lorloack, or the Archwizardess of Doubloon. The question is: What kind of access did the typical Arcanist of the time have to the scrolls while they were in the hands of the nation of Netheril Where were they stored? Who had the authority to allow a person access?
Ioulaum 03-04-07, 03:33 PM	The complete set the elves stole is still in Myth Dannor. The varoise guardians in the city prevented the scrolls theft and according to all the source books they are still there. However now that Myth Dannor has been reclaimed by the Elves of Evermeet. I wonder about those particular scrolls locations. Lorlock has at least 10 scrolls. I don’t believe the second thief was committed by the elves. The first thief was merely inquisitive on the part of the elves. They wanted to find out how a human nation had advanced their knowledge of the art so quickly. It was merely a security precaution by the elves. The second and third thefts were either committed by Iouluam, Lorloack, or the Archwizardess of Doubloon. The question is: What kind of access did the typical Arcanist of the time have to the scrolls while they were in the hands of the nation of Netheril Where were they stored? Who had the authority to allow a person access? Only a very few knows that Myth Dannar has acomplete set of the nethril Scrolls. El, Sinshree (sp?) and the guardian is about it. It is also lock away in a extra dimensional space. No one in Evermeet, Everseke and Silvermoon knows about it.
Wizard56 03-04-07, 05:25 PM	If I remember correctly reading about Netheril, in order to advance to Arcanist or beyond, people had to have access to at least some of the knowledge from the scrolls. Since there were many schools for such learning, there must have been numerous copies of at least portions of the Scrolls. If certain scrolls had already been copied, it would not have been necessary to view the originals. In addition, the learning continued at a high level, even afte the second set disappeared. That would seem to mean that translated copies were availiable somewhere. Probably in the oldest enclaves.
Ioulaum 03-04-07, 05:52 PM	If I remember correctly reading about Netheril, in order to advance to Arcanist or beyond, people had to have access to at least some of the knowledge from the scrolls. Since there were many schools for such learning, there must have been numerous copies of at least portions of the Scrolls. If certain scrolls had already been copied, it would not have been necessary to view the originals. In addition, the learning continued at a high level, even afte the second set disappeared. That would seem to mean that translated copies were availiable somewhere. Probably in the oldest enclaves. The Nethril Scroll works very differently form normal spellbooks. Depedning on the readers level of acrane knowledge, they reveal different knowledges. If the same person who read the scrolls first time as a beingger the scroll will give person the basic. Once that person becomes more advance if her reads the scrolls again, he gets access to more advance knowledge. Any copies made would only be of suitable level to the person copying it.
HVulpes 03-04-07, 06:00 PM	This is my opinion, but it might seem likely that Mystra as goddesses of magic might keep her own copy of the scroll on Dwemorheart (Either it's own plane or on Elysium). Of course given the history of the scroll she might have several test that must be passed to gain access to the hidden library. This is not offical, but it might make sense and could be use in your campaign if the DM is willing. Plus the adventure of passing the test could be fun, especially if you're a shadow adapt of Shar trying to steal that copy to increase the power of the Shadow Weave. Another option is the rare chance that Oghma might have a copy as he did have Gargauth's journal in his library.
Wizard56 03-04-07, 07:20 PM	I thought the original Nether Scrolls were written by the elves. If so, the knowledge on them would be somewhere in the possetion of Corellon, who is their god of magic.
Stigger 03-04-07, 07:35 PM	Nah, supposedly came from the Sarrukh, not the elves. Elves just stole a copy of the scrolls the Sarrukh gave the Netherese through the Terraseer.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 02:02 AM	Yes Stigger is correct the Scrolls came from The Sarrukh also known as the creator races. As for Mystra having a copy locked up on the planes. That wouldn’t make much sense since she wants to spread magic. I have always believed that the Nether Scrolls had the same protection of many other artifacts. They can’t be removed from the prime material plane. So no god could take them and lock them up or only show them to their chosen few. Supposedly the Sarrukh have a master copy somewhere that’s even more powerful then the Nether Scrolls. Now did the Sarrukh compile this knowledge from their own knowledge of spell casting or from studying human shamen? I remmeber reading something about that. Does anyone know where the living version of the Sarrukh appears in Realm’s accessories? :confused: I can’t find any reference to them except the undead versions. I’m kind of interested in what a typical member of this race would look like. :confused: Also. The entry in LEOF for the scrolls says that reading one scroll grants you a level. So conceivable if you sat down in a room for 50 months and read all 50 scrolls you would walk out a 50th level spell caster? Am I interpreting the entry correctly? :uh-huh: :schemes:
Krash 03-05-07, 04:57 AM	You can interpret that entry any way you like. It is your game after all. -- George Krashos
Stigger 03-05-07, 09:11 AM	Think it was 4 years for the entire set, but I'm not sure if the artifact one was included in that total, presuming you actually had a method to read it... as to the Sarrukh question, they showed up detailed in Serpent Kingdoms.
Ioulaum 03-05-07, 12:44 PM	Nah, supposedly came from the Sarrukh, not the elves. Elves just stole a copy of the scrolls the Sarrukh gave the Netherese through the Terraseer. It wasn't just the Sarrukh, they started the scrolls but the scrolls actually span 3 different Creator Races in its creation.
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 01:06 PM	Three races... three sets... :devil: Working THAT into my Kara-Tur history. :plotting: Just not sure about it being the 'electrum' set...
Karsus the Mad 03-05-07, 01:14 PM	3 sets?
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 01:42 PM	3 sets?Logically, THREE races were working on them, so why would there ONLY be two sets? Hmmmm? ;) Nothing canonical, but immensly helpful for what I'm working on now.
Karsus the Mad 03-05-07, 01:48 PM	Logically, THREE races were working on them, so why would there ONLY be two sets? Hmmmm? ;) Because they weren't creating them simultaneously, but one after another added to what the previous one had done?:) It was a secret society that actually created them, it just happened to have had members of all 3 three races over time. Nothing canonical, but immensly helpful for what I'm working on now. Good enough reason:P I'm working on my own, similar artifacts (kind of a combo of the Nether Scrolls and the Imaskarcana; The Amethyst Tome....ba ba dum) for an ancient, dead race that once inhabitted Osse.
MarkusTay63 03-05-07, 02:45 PM	Seems to ba a lot of people interested in lore for that region.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 03:02 PM	Think it was 4 years for the entire set, but I'm not sure if the artifact one was included in that total, presuming you actually had a method to read it... as to the Sarrukh question, they showed up detailed in Serpent Kingdoms. The Sarrukh detailed in Serpent Kingdoms were all undead. I was interest in a typical living member of the race. How do you get 4 years? :confused: No questioning you. Just curious to know. 3 sets?:confused: I thought the first two sets were exactly the same except for the materials with which they were made? What 3 races?:confused:
Stigger 03-05-07, 03:04 PM	Were they? Guess I didn't read it that carefully... oh well, not like they ever really interested me. Always struck me as something tacked on to pacify the questions from the NWN1 crowd more than anything else for some reason though. Though I'm kinda curious as to what those 3 races are myself, as I can't think of anywhere that's mentioned.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 03:08 PM	Were they? Guess I didn't read it that carefully... oh well, not like they ever really interested me. Always struck me as something tacked on to pacify the questions from the NWN1 crowd more than anything else for some reason though. Though I'm kinda curious as to what those 3 races are myself, as I can't think of anywhere that's mentioned. Well maybe the undead Elder Brain will see fit to enlighten us! :confused: Netheril did rock!
Ioulaum 03-05-07, 03:37 PM	Well maybe the undead Elder Brain will see fit to enlighten us! :confused: Netheril did rock! The Sarukh The Batrachi The Aearee *Drains 1 wis point form LLKN *goes back to plotting a suitable punishment for that young upstart Shadow.
Stigger 03-05-07, 03:38 PM	Well yes, but what source is it from?
Ioulaum 03-05-07, 03:43 PM	Well yes, but what source is it from? Serpent Kingdoms and Lost Empire.
Stigger 03-05-07, 03:49 PM	Really? Gotta sit down and read those more carefully then, completely missed that...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 05:46 PM	The Sarukh The Batrachi The Aearee *Drains 1 wis point form LLKN *goes back to plotting a suitable punishment for that young upstart Shadow. Hey why didn’t Stigger get his wisdom drained for asking which source? You know you could have drained one of my epic spells instead. I have this really cool one called “Instant demigod” it works much better then Karsus’s silly spells.;) The question still stands to any who want to answer. Who had access to the Nether Scrolls when they were in the hands of Netheril? Was the average Arcanist allowed to peruse them at a public library?:cool: Also why did they change the lore between 2nd and 3rd edition. The guy who found the Nether Scrolls was known as “The Finder” in 2nd edition and now the guy has a name! What’s up with that?:confused:
Ioulaum 03-05-07, 05:58 PM	Hey why didn’t Stigger get his wisdom drained for asking which source? Thanks for reminding me. *drains 1 wis point form Stigger. You know you could have drained one of my epic spells instead. I have this really cool one called “Instant demigod” it works much better then Karsus’s silly spells.;) pfff, i got a better spell. a epic scrying spell allowing the caster to see into the pool where Sune and Hanali hangs out :D :P [quote]The question still stands to any who want to answer. Who had access to the Nether Scrolls when they were in the hands of Netheril? Was the average Arcanist allowed to peruse them at a public library?:cool: Probably the top Arcanist could have drop by and studie the scrolls anytime. The lower tier Arcanist probably had to request for permision to study.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 06:03 PM	Thanks for reminding me. *drains 1 wis point form Stigger. [quote] You know you could have drained one of my epic spells instead. I have this really cool one called “Instant demigod” it works much better then Karsus’s silly spells.;) pfff, i got a better spell. a epic scrying allowing the caster to see into the pool where Sune and Hanali hangs out :D :P Probably the top Arcanist could have drop by and studie the scrolls anytime. The lower tier Arcanist probably had to request for permision to study. I need a copy of that divine peeping Tom spell you ceated! :smirk: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Ioulaum 03-05-07, 06:22 PM	[QUOTE=Ioulaum;11675016]Thanks for reminding me. *drains 1 wis point form Stigger. I need a copy of that divine peeping Tom spell you ceated! :smirk: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: It is not a divine peepiing tom spell It is a epic divine scrying spell.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 06:39 PM	[QUOTE=Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron;11675064] It is not a divine peepiing tom spell It is a epic divine scrying spell. Same difference. You big mass of Brainy pervertedness. What you get out of ogling those Goddesses? You don’t have a body any more and your undead!
Karsus the Mad 03-05-07, 07:05 PM	I have this really cool one called “Instant demigod” it works much better then Karsus’s silly spells. Why you lil' silly bugger, I never!. Calling the one and only 12th level spell ever developed "silly". I should b1tchslap you back to puberty you 1st level commoner. And I can do it, I can! I slapped Candlemas into the future afterall! Dear Ao the things younglings fart out of their mouths....
Stigger 03-05-07, 07:35 PM	Feh, wisdom is highly overrated...
Wizard56 03-05-07, 07:50 PM	I think intelligence and wisdom are opposites, the more of one you have, the less of the other you use.... Have you ever noticed that people with genius level IQs seem to be impractical and have poor social skills?
Karsus the Mad 03-05-07, 07:52 PM	I think intelligence and wisdom are opposites, the more of one you have, the less of the other you use.... Have you ever noticed that people with genius level IQs seem to be impractical and have poor social skills? I have both....a base Int of 22 and Wis of 19...oh yeah...feel pity for the rest of mankind!:D
Wizard56 03-05-07, 07:58 PM	Add those two numbers together and you get my waistline....or is it my height? I get those two mixed up. Either one is my intelligence/wisdom combined. :D
Karsus the Mad 03-05-07, 08:06 PM	Add those two numbers together and you get my waistline....or is it my height? I get those two mixed up. Either one is my intelligence/wisdom combined. :D You should see it with 3.5 updates! +10 Int from level, +3 to Int, Wis, Cha from age, +12 from epic item....oh, and +5 from wish...yeah:D
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 01:19 AM	Not wise enough to pick the correct deity to steal divinity from! Real Amateur hour there. Just like the drunken guy throwing darts at the bar!
Karsus the Mad 03-06-07, 09:03 AM	Not wise enough to pick the correct deity to steal divinity from! Real armature hour there. Just like the drunken guy throwing darts at the bar! You misspelled amateur...;) Btw, I usually am the drunk guy throwing darts at the bar, and I usually win:) And also, at least I could steal divinity...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 11:00 AM	You misspelled amateur...;) Btw, I usually am the drunk guy throwing darts at the bar, and I usually win:) And also, at least I could steal divinity... Then I challenge you to a drunken dart throwing contest! Cuz I’m a 20th level expert in drunk dart throwing!:D
Karsus the Mad 03-06-07, 11:05 AM	You're on;) *casts true strike* Huh. Bulls Eye on the first try:cool:
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 11:07 AM	You're on;) *casts true strike* Huh. Bulls Eye on the first try:cool: You get extra points if you hit the Gnome bar patrons!:D
Wizard56 03-06-07, 02:54 PM	Hey, leave them gnomes alone! If you want a real challenge, plant that dart in an orc's backside, then see if you can outrun him.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 11:42 PM	Hey, leave them gnomes alone! If you want a real challenge, plant that dart in an orc's backside, then see if you can outrun him. Only if it’s a poison dart! I hate gnomes almost as much as I hate Halflings!:headexplo
Stigger 03-07-07, 05:01 AM	You hate Hin? You really are an uncivilized savage with absolutely no sense of humor... :P
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-07-07, 04:32 PM	You hate Hin? You really are an uncivilized savage with absolutely no sense of humor... :P Hey look what one Halfling did to the world of Athas?!? Do you want Faerun to become a desert wasteland? If you want to save Faerun you will help me with the Halfling genocide! I bet the phaerimm and the Halfings are mixed up in a plot against all of Netheril! They are a greater threat then the phaerimm! All Halflings must be crucified ASAP! :D :D
Stigger 03-08-07, 01:37 AM	Didn't care for the whole Athas setting... not my taste at all, so not a clue as to what you're talking about.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-08-07, 03:12 AM	Didn't care for the whole Athas setting... not my taste at all, so not a clue as to what you're talking about. Ra-jaat or what ever his name was. The Halfling antichrist type that drained all the life out of the planet and made it the crap hole it is today.
Stigger 03-08-07, 06:34 AM	So if he drained all the life out of the planet, how is anyone still living on it? ;) But yeah, that crap hole part is pretty much what turned me off the setting from the start... can only take so much of that before it gets too depressing to even think about.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-08-07, 10:56 AM	So if he drained all the life out of the planet, how is anyone still living on it? ;) But yeah, that crap hole part is pretty much what turned me off the setting from the start... can only take so much of that before it gets too depressing to even think about. Not all the life silly. Just made is a wasteland. He was with his defiling magic! Halflings are the devil!
Stigger 03-08-07, 01:50 PM	Sure it's not all silly, but I can happily ignore the parts that I don't like... not really a matter of silly or not though, just that whole pseudo post-apocalyptic thing has been so overdone.
Karsus the Mad 03-08-07, 09:04 PM	Just go with Babylon 5. Best sci-fi fantasy ever. You wanna knock it, then as a Karsus, I fry your sorry ass. Eh. Thats the benefits of being ME. Go sign a complaint.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-09-07, 03:02 AM	Just go with Babylon 5. Best sci-fi fantasy ever. You wanna knock it, then as a Karsus, I fry your sorry ass. Eh. Thats the benefits of being ME. Go sign a complaint. Babylon 5 is the shizzz nitszz!! Anyone that doesn’t like it is wicked lame! However Halflings still suck! They destroy worlds! Halflings must die! :D
Stigger 03-09-07, 04:05 PM	Don't watch television... haven't in well over a decade... but I'm sure it still sucks. :P ;) :D
Karsus the Mad 03-09-07, 07:26 PM	Don't watch television... haven't in well over a decade... but I'm sure it still sucks. :P ;) :D That lil' comment has forced me to consider you an enemy. Pity...I really liked you Stigger. I even spelled your name with a capital S.....but dissing B5....I can't forgive. I will, from this moment on, forever scour all sources just to make you look stupid:P
Stigger 03-09-07, 07:29 PM	C'mon, it shouldn't take a full blown scouring just to make me look stupid... I can manage that one on my own with barely any effort... get more imaginative than that. ;)
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-09-07, 08:26 PM	C'mon, it shouldn't take a full blown scouring just to make me look stupid... I can manage that one on my own with barely any effort... get more imaginative than that. ;) If you don’t watch TV that means you’re missing BattleStar Galactica!?!?! Good God man! Do you know what you’re doing? No B 5, no BSG, no Doc Who! You must be mentally damaged! Also TV is full of all kind of useful gaming plot scenarios! :P
Stigger 03-10-07, 12:08 AM	I refuse to have anything to do with BSG since they turned Starbuck into a girl.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-10-07, 01:58 AM	I refuse to have anything to do with BSG since they turned Starbuck into a girl. I had the same feelings until I watched the first season. But some how it works! She fits. She is a big Sl*T just like the original Starbuck! It’s an excellent character. However you will be happy to hear they killed her last episode, but I don’t’ think she will stay dead! For real watch it! Great show! :D
Stigger 03-10-07, 02:05 AM	Suppose I could rent it on DVD... Though speaking of the Nether Scrolls, it was pretty much solely the creation of the Sarrukh, from what I read. My take on it was that they pretty much just looted the other two elder races collected knowledge and compiled it with their own to come up with it... sure they contributed their lore, but they hardly collaborated with the Sarrukh on it. At least as far as I could tell.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-10-07, 03:53 AM	Suppose I could rent it on DVD... Though speaking of the Nether Scrolls, it was pretty much solely the creation of the Sarrukh, from what I read. My take on it was that they pretty much just looted the other two elder races collected knowledge and compiled it with their own to come up with it... sure they contributed their lore, but they hardly collaborated with the Sarrukh on it. At least as far as I could tell. That's kinda what I thought too. I don't know where that guy got his info.
MarkusTay63 03-10-07, 12:43 PM	That's kinda what I thought too. I don't know where that guy got his info.HEY! You talking to ME? :incog: ;) What has been stated is that the Nether scrolls are the collected knowledge of three of the creator races, put together in the form that is known as the Nether Scrolls by the Sarrukh. Nowhere does it say the other races didn't voluntarily contribute. It is left just vague enough for a good DM to draw his own conclusions. You are probably correct, since the sarrukh don't seem like the type to 'play well with others', but there is a wee bit of an opening left there... :D I'm trying to work in something about a set of them working there way East, stolen by the last of the Batrachi after he reasoned out that the Terraseer was going to kill him and the Avaree scholars once they were no longer needed. I'm still not sure where I'm going with it, but I'm working on the Kara-Tur region now and I was just trying to connect that area to the realms a little more solidly. Also, I hated Starbuck at first too, Stigger, but she grows on you. She's still the only hot chick I've ever seen that I wouldn't want to sleep with (too masculine).
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-10-07, 08:14 PM	HEY! You talking to ME? :incog: ;) What has been stated is that the Nether scrolls are the collected knowledge of three of the creator races, put together in the form that is known as the Nether Scrolls by the Sarrukh. Nowhere does it say the other races didn't voluntarily contribute. It is left just vague enough for a good DM to draw his own conclusions. You are probably correct, since the sarrukh don't seem like the type to 'play well with others', but there is a wee bit of an opening left there... :D I'm trying to work in something about a set of them working there way East, stolen by the last of the Batrachi after he reasoned out that the Terraseer was going to kill him and the Avaree scholars once they were no longer needed. I'm still not sure where I'm going with it, but I'm working on the Kara-Tur region now and I was just trying to connect that area to the realms a little more solidly. Also, I hated Starbuck at first too, Stigger, but she grows on you. She's still the only hot chick I've ever seen that I wouldn't want to sleep with (too masculine). Didn’t know it was you Markus. I see what you are saying. Makes sense. I would still sleep with StarBuck, but only after a boxing match that I win. If she beats me I don’t think I would be up to it! lol
Karsus the Mad 03-11-07, 03:06 PM	Actually, from reading Serpent Kingdoms, among other sources that briefly mention it, the Nether Scrolls are the collected magical lore of the primitive "lesser" races of Toril. I would think it also contains Sarukh and other creator race magical lore as well, but I don't think it says that (not sure, going by memory, and my memory is the last thing one would want to trust). They even contain elven high magic lore, which I find most interesting:)
Optimystik 03-15-07, 02:08 AM	Also TV is full of all kind of useful gaming plot scenarios! :P So are, y'know, books. :rolleyes: I find so much of TV today bland and overrated... In The Nether Scroll it was stated that pretty much every average citizen of Netheril could use magic to some degree. Given that, they probably would see no reason to read the scrolls unless they were scholars, right? I can drive a car, that doesn't make me want to be an engineer. I have no doubt the scrolls were kept under lock and key, but perhaps they weren't nearly as valuable and stealworthy in the days of the empire as they are now.
Karsus the Mad 03-15-07, 09:52 AM	I have no doubt the scrolls were kept under lock and key, but perhaps they weren't nearly as valuable and stealworthy in the days of the empire as they are now. Valuable enough for Cormanthyr to steal a set;)
Stigger 03-15-07, 06:18 PM	Well, just think of it as an intelligence operation to see what the other guy has... and what he's basing his thinking off of. :D
Zsych 03-17-07, 04:36 AM	Just a minor comment: From the way 10+ spells suddenly vanished from the Nether scrolls when Mystra banned them, and considering that I don't really think any of the Creator races had truely awe-inspiring knowledge, or that there is any reason for the Nether scrolls transformed to a tree to suddenly offer knowledge of High-Magic if they contained specific knowledge defined by the creators... I would think that the Nether scrolls are a kind of adaptive magic, tied to the Weave, and able to explain aspects of it in mortal tongue. (in other words.. very high-end stuff :)) As for proliferation of magical knowledge... even with the Scrolls no longer containing info on 10+ spells, Mystra apparently seems to be hiding them. So I would assume that she considers mortal understanding of the depths of magic to be a threat to herself... Look at Karsus slipping through the cracks of Mystryl's divine powers. Even if 10+ magic is banned, there is nothing to say that epic magic, ritual magic, the creation of magical artifacts, etc, could not become threats to her or other gods, if mortals possessed enough knowledge(possibly including knowledge of how Mystra's safeguards in the Weave work. Someone who knows how Mystra is able to sense spells ahead of casting, may well be able to come up with a counter-measure) Karsus Avatar for example had a casting time in hours. Most spells don't have a particularly long casting time. I would think that you could do a lot with 9th level spells that took several hours to cast. Ritual spells, epic spells etc, of that sort might carry many possibilities.