Nullifying an Anti-magic shell / Sphere [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nullifying an Anti-magic shell / Sphere [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gift_of_Fury
05-09-07, 06:05 PM What would you say is the quickest and easiest way to nullify an Anti-magic shell / sphere which has been cast by a high level Fighter/Mage?

It seems to me that as a 6th level (2nd Ed AD&D) spell, rhere is no easy way to nullify this spell.

"He was a man...." said Conan "I drink to his Shade"
Karsus the Mad
05-09-07, 06:28 PM An epic spell utilizing the ward seed can cause an anti-magic field to not function within the warded area.
Gift_of_Fury
05-09-07, 06:43 PM An Epic Spell....hmmmm, Thanks Karsus, do you think there is a lower level spell that may have the same effect, It just seems to me that the Anti Magic shell / sphere seems too powerful a spell ie It blocks the weave (Both) itself.
MaskedOne
05-10-07, 01:01 AM In 3.X it can be destroyed by

Epic dispellings or epic spells that use the destroy seed.

Silverfire

A lucky Disjunction (1% chance per caster level. I.E. a level 20 caster has a 1 in 5 chance without CL modification to break the work of a level 11 wizard)

Presumably a properly worded wish, if a wish fails offer to beat to your DM to death with his DMG and ask again.

Bypassing an anti-magic field can be managed by:

KtM's ward will shut them down

Invoke Magic (a level 9 spell) will allow a level 4 or lower spell to operate through one at the mere price of a 1000 gp gem.

Iniates of Mystra reserve the right to laugh at anti-magic.

Major Artifacts and divinities aren't affected.

There may be one or two more tricks and 2E had more options.
Gift_of_Fury
05-10-07, 07:52 PM Hmmm....

Thanks for the help, I cant blame my players for using it to a tactical advantage, they really do come up with some great ideas when it comes to creative casting. The spell does seem a bit over powered to me though, how would you handle this situation.

The group consisting of

3 fighter/rogues 20/20 level
1 Priest/fighter 25/15 level
1 fig/Wiz/Rog 20/25/15

encounter a lone Wizard level 20

round one

two fighters attack using missile weapons while one circle around and closes to engage in combat.

the priest uses an innate ability (lightning bolt) in an attempt to disrupt casting

The party Wiz moves into close range whilst attacking with a set of hand cross bows.

Target Wiz casts defensive /offensive spell

Round two

all fighters engage wizard in hand to hand while party priest casts dispel magic on target Wiz

Party wizard (now in range) casts anti-magic shell.

Target Wiz better hope he isn’t around by this time.

no matter how you run this encounter it seems to really come down to either the roll of initiative or pre preparation on the target wizards part.

What would you guys do?

P.S thaks for taking the time to post guys.
BrennonGoldeye
05-10-07, 08:07 PM Your party doesn't need the antimagic sphere. It's a slaughter from the start.

I would make the one spell the wizard gets to cast either...

A) A prearanged Conjuration/Summoning of the CR 62 :devil: Bossman:devil: that is the actual challenge.

or

B) Use wizard hand to drop his Bag of Holding in his Portable Hole. :bigeyes:
Gift_of_Fury
05-10-07, 09:56 PM lolrof!!!

ok lets up the Anti (sorry about the pun)

say there are 3 Target Wizards...

I guess the conclusion that I'm drawing to is that this 6th level spell can in fact render even a 25th level Wizard powerless.

What do you guys think?
GothicDan
05-10-07, 10:23 PM This is why super high level D&D games usually don't work so well. Any truly intelligent 20th+ level Wizard wouldn't be wandering around with just a few other party members. They'd be sitting in their towers/dungeons/etc., using projected illusions, summoned monsters, elementals, etc. to do the work for them, while they remain in perfect safety!
Burningspear
05-10-07, 10:47 PM The target Wizard might have several Contingencies in place, so if they overlap him with the anti magic sphere, that moment the spell triggers and teleports him to safety? etc.

:plotting:

i hope the wizard is good and has several nice dragon friends, that will kick even this party's butt :D
MaskedOne
05-10-07, 11:55 PM At level 25, epic destroy or dispel isn't really hard to arrange. Break the overused cliché trinket and fry the party that tries to use it for their lack of creativity.

Invoke Magic is a swift action and followed by D-Door gets you out almost all anti-magic based traps due to the simple point that the anti-magic field suppresses any transport blocks aren't epic or protected by slightly uncommon measures. I'd modify Invoke Magic to have an XP cost rather than material component but it isn't truly necessary in many cases.

Shrug, vindictive response, set up a homebrew spell as a countermeasure and don't bother to mention it.

I despise anti-magic and all its related effects with a vehement and occasionally memorable passion but it's not perfect. There are bypasses. They aren't quite up to my standards but they do exist and a level 20+ wizard caged by anti-magic is either stuck because the DM is being unpleasant or they weren't properly prepared.
Krash
05-11-07, 12:31 AM I recall having a chat about this topic with Ed Greenwood once - arising out of a line in one of his novels where the elven mage Mythanthar scolds some Starym wizards that no anti-magic effect can withstand a "spell shear".

Ed made the novel and cogent point that an anti-magic spell is still a spell. It's not dead magic. It is still powered by the Weave. If it wasn't, then it would collapse upon casting, 'eating' itself in the process. Our discussion led us to ponder on the possibility that one could craft a spell specifically designed to deal with anti-magic shells/rays that could operate and be cast in anti-magic areas.

Drawing on the rules, if power level and stats mean anything in the game, why shouldn't you be able to specifically create and tailor a 9th level spell to deal with the effects of a 6th level spell - even if that spell is an 'anti-magic' one?

Food for thought.

-- George Krashos
MaskedOne
05-11-07, 01:15 AM Think that position could lead to a couple more printed countermeasures against anti-magic that are available to Arcane spellcasters?

Please.

I see one or two spells on the Sor/Wiz list and one psionic power that serve as effective counters to the use of anti-magic and I'll do my best to avoid rants on the subject for a year. A year and a half if they show up in FR supplements.
GothicDan
05-11-07, 01:22 AM Hm. Would a Prismatic Sphere be affected by Antimagic?
MaskedOne
05-11-07, 01:29 AM Anti-magic cannot suppress an active Prismatic Sphere, Prismatic Wall, Wall of Force or Force Cage. I believe it can prevent anyone in its area of effect from casting any of the above but it's remotely possible that I'm misinterpreting the rules on that.
GothicDan
05-11-07, 02:11 AM Heh. So, have a Contingency of sorts that throws up a Wall of Force if you are targeted by an Antimagic Field? I imagine the Wall of Force would be sprung before the Antimagic Field could be cast, unless it was Quickened.
Krash
05-11-07, 03:41 AM Think that position could lead to a couple more printed countermeasures against anti-magic that are available to Arcane spellcasters?

Please.

I see one or two spells on the Sor/Wiz list and one psionic power that serve as effective counters to the use of anti-magic and I'll do my best to avoid rants on the subject for a year. A year and a half if they show up in FR supplements.

Sorry my sarcasm radar is off at the moment. I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my musings. Either is fine - I just wish I knew which.:)

-- George Krashos
Derren S.
05-11-07, 03:49 AM Imo Antimagic Field should be replaced by Greater Globe of Invulnerability (and maybe also superior Globe of Invulnerability)
GothicDan
05-11-07, 03:55 AM Sometimes, for the Realms at least, I think that more spells should be scalable by level. That's why a lot of times I personally make (in character or out of character) spells like Improved This or Greater That....

I just think that the Vancian D&D magic system isn't particularly proper for the Realms. I'd really love to see something similar to the Mage system applied to it.
MaskedOne
05-11-07, 10:37 AM Sorry my sarcasm radar is off at the moment. I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my musings. Either is fine - I just wish I knew which.:)

-- George Krashos

Agree with your musings. Mostly I was using them as an exuse to make my generic plea to the universe in general to get more WotC published countermeasures to anti-magic.

On general principle, if I'm asking for more published countermeasures to anti-magic then I'm being sincere. Slightly off topic occasionally but normally sincere.
ShadezofDis
05-11-07, 11:47 AM The group consisting of

3 fighter/rogues 20/20 level
1 Priest/fighter 25/15 level
1 fig/Wiz/Rog 20/25/15

encounter a lone Wizard level 20

That lone wizard is in for a hurting. Any one of your PCs should be able to take the wizard out (dependin upon the circumstance, the noncasters would have a tough time of it if the wizard was aware of them first)

However, Dan summed up what I'd do, a 20th level wizard should have a very defensable home with quite a few allies at hand.
BrennonGoldeye
05-12-07, 03:40 PM say there are 3 Target Wizards...

Get someone to push a "Fast Service" button in electronics. :bump:

Then strike at the checklanes while they are distracted..:rimshot:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gift_of_Fury 05-09-07, 06:05 PM	What would you say is the quickest and easiest way to nullify an Anti-magic shell / sphere which has been cast by a high level Fighter/Mage? It seems to me that as a 6th level (2nd Ed AD&D) spell, rhere is no easy way to nullify this spell. "He was a man...." said Conan "I drink to his Shade"
Karsus the Mad 05-09-07, 06:28 PM	An epic spell utilizing the ward seed can cause an anti-magic field to not function within the warded area.
Gift_of_Fury 05-09-07, 06:43 PM	An Epic Spell....hmmmm, Thanks Karsus, do you think there is a lower level spell that may have the same effect, It just seems to me that the Anti Magic shell / sphere seems too powerful a spell ie It blocks the weave (Both) itself.
MaskedOne 05-10-07, 01:01 AM	In 3.X it can be destroyed by Epic dispellings or epic spells that use the destroy seed. Silverfire A lucky Disjunction (1% chance per caster level. I.E. a level 20 caster has a 1 in 5 chance without CL modification to break the work of a level 11 wizard) Presumably a properly worded wish, if a wish fails offer to beat to your DM to death with his DMG and ask again. Bypassing an anti-magic field can be managed by: KtM's ward will shut them down Invoke Magic (a level 9 spell) will allow a level 4 or lower spell to operate through one at the mere price of a 1000 gp gem. Iniates of Mystra reserve the right to laugh at anti-magic. Major Artifacts and divinities aren't affected. There may be one or two more tricks and 2E had more options.
Gift_of_Fury 05-10-07, 07:52 PM	Hmmm.... Thanks for the help, I cant blame my players for using it to a tactical advantage, they really do come up with some great ideas when it comes to creative casting. The spell does seem a bit over powered to me though, how would you handle this situation. The group consisting of 3 fighter/rogues 20/20 level 1 Priest/fighter 25/15 level 1 fig/Wiz/Rog 20/25/15 encounter a lone Wizard level 20 round one two fighters attack using missile weapons while one circle around and closes to engage in combat. the priest uses an innate ability (lightning bolt) in an attempt to disrupt casting The party Wiz moves into close range whilst attacking with a set of hand cross bows. Target Wiz casts defensive /offensive spell Round two all fighters engage wizard in hand to hand while party priest casts dispel magic on target Wiz Party wizard (now in range) casts anti-magic shell. Target Wiz better hope he isn’t around by this time. no matter how you run this encounter it seems to really come down to either the roll of initiative or pre preparation on the target wizards part. What would you guys do? P.S thaks for taking the time to post guys.
BrennonGoldeye 05-10-07, 08:07 PM	Your party doesn't need the antimagic sphere. It's a slaughter from the start. I would make the one spell the wizard gets to cast either... A) A prearanged Conjuration/Summoning of the CR 62 :devil: Bossman:devil: that is the actual challenge. or B) Use wizard hand to drop his Bag of Holding in his Portable Hole. :bigeyes:
Gift_of_Fury 05-10-07, 09:56 PM	lolrof!!! ok lets up the Anti (sorry about the pun) say there are 3 Target Wizards... I guess the conclusion that I'm drawing to is that this 6th level spell can in fact render even a 25th level Wizard powerless. What do you guys think?
GothicDan 05-10-07, 10:23 PM	This is why super high level D&D games usually don't work so well. Any truly intelligent 20th+ level Wizard wouldn't be wandering around with just a few other party members. They'd be sitting in their towers/dungeons/etc., using projected illusions, summoned monsters, elementals, etc. to do the work for them, while they remain in perfect safety!
Burningspear 05-10-07, 10:47 PM	The target Wizard might have several Contingencies in place, so if they overlap him with the anti magic sphere, that moment the spell triggers and teleports him to safety? etc. :plotting: i hope the wizard is good and has several nice dragon friends, that will kick even this party's butt :D
MaskedOne 05-10-07, 11:55 PM	At level 25, epic destroy or dispel isn't really hard to arrange. Break the overused cliché trinket and fry the party that tries to use it for their lack of creativity. Invoke Magic is a swift action and followed by D-Door gets you out almost all anti-magic based traps due to the simple point that the anti-magic field suppresses any transport blocks aren't epic or protected by slightly uncommon measures. I'd modify Invoke Magic to have an XP cost rather than material component but it isn't truly necessary in many cases. Shrug, vindictive response, set up a homebrew spell as a countermeasure and don't bother to mention it. I despise anti-magic and all its related effects with a vehement and occasionally memorable passion but it's not perfect. There are bypasses. They aren't quite up to my standards but they do exist and a level 20+ wizard caged by anti-magic is either stuck because the DM is being unpleasant or they weren't properly prepared.
Krash 05-11-07, 12:31 AM	I recall having a chat about this topic with Ed Greenwood once - arising out of a line in one of his novels where the elven mage Mythanthar scolds some Starym wizards that no anti-magic effect can withstand a "spell shear". Ed made the novel and cogent point that an anti-magic spell is still a spell. It's not dead magic. It is still powered by the Weave. If it wasn't, then it would collapse upon casting, 'eating' itself in the process. Our discussion led us to ponder on the possibility that one could craft a spell specifically designed to deal with anti-magic shells/rays that could operate and be cast in anti-magic areas. Drawing on the rules, if power level and stats mean anything in the game, why shouldn't you be able to specifically create and tailor a 9th level spell to deal with the effects of a 6th level spell - even if that spell is an 'anti-magic' one? Food for thought. -- George Krashos
MaskedOne 05-11-07, 01:15 AM	Think that position could lead to a couple more printed countermeasures against anti-magic that are available to Arcane spellcasters? Please. I see one or two spells on the Sor/Wiz list and one psionic power that serve as effective counters to the use of anti-magic and I'll do my best to avoid rants on the subject for a year. A year and a half if they show up in FR supplements.
GothicDan 05-11-07, 01:22 AM	Hm. Would a Prismatic Sphere be affected by Antimagic?
MaskedOne 05-11-07, 01:29 AM	Anti-magic cannot suppress an active Prismatic Sphere, Prismatic Wall, Wall of Force or Force Cage. I believe it can prevent anyone in its area of effect from casting any of the above but it's remotely possible that I'm misinterpreting the rules on that.
GothicDan 05-11-07, 02:11 AM	Heh. So, have a Contingency of sorts that throws up a Wall of Force if you are targeted by an Antimagic Field? I imagine the Wall of Force would be sprung before the Antimagic Field could be cast, unless it was Quickened.
Krash 05-11-07, 03:41 AM	Think that position could lead to a couple more printed countermeasures against anti-magic that are available to Arcane spellcasters? Please. I see one or two spells on the Sor/Wiz list and one psionic power that serve as effective counters to the use of anti-magic and I'll do my best to avoid rants on the subject for a year. A year and a half if they show up in FR supplements. Sorry my sarcasm radar is off at the moment. I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my musings. Either is fine - I just wish I knew which.:) -- George Krashos
Derren S. 05-11-07, 03:49 AM	Imo Antimagic Field should be replaced by Greater Globe of Invulnerability (and maybe also superior Globe of Invulnerability)
GothicDan 05-11-07, 03:55 AM	Sometimes, for the Realms at least, I think that more spells should be scalable by level. That's why a lot of times I personally make (in character or out of character) spells like Improved This or Greater That.... I just think that the Vancian D&D magic system isn't particularly proper for the Realms. I'd really love to see something similar to the Mage system applied to it.
MaskedOne 05-11-07, 10:37 AM	Sorry my sarcasm radar is off at the moment. I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with my musings. Either is fine - I just wish I knew which.:) -- George Krashos Agree with your musings. Mostly I was using them as an exuse to make my generic plea to the universe in general to get more WotC published countermeasures to anti-magic. On general principle, if I'm asking for more published countermeasures to anti-magic then I'm being sincere. Slightly off topic occasionally but normally sincere.
ShadezofDis 05-11-07, 11:47 AM	The group consisting of 3 fighter/rogues 20/20 level 1 Priest/fighter 25/15 level 1 fig/Wiz/Rog 20/25/15 encounter a lone Wizard level 20 That lone wizard is in for a hurting. Any one of your PCs should be able to take the wizard out (dependin upon the circumstance, the noncasters would have a tough time of it if the wizard was aware of them first) However, Dan summed up what I'd do, a 20th level wizard should have a very defensable home with quite a few allies at hand.
BrennonGoldeye 05-12-07, 03:40 PM	say there are 3 Target Wizards... Get someone to push a "Fast Service" button in electronics. :bump: Then strike at the checklanes while they are distracted..:rimshot: