O Yugolothe, quo vadis editione quarta? Quid appellamini et facetis? [Archive] - Wizards Community

O Yugolothe, quo vadis editione quarta? Quid appellamini et facetis? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Todesherr
03-13-08, 11:43 PM There seems to have been little information on Yugoloths in 4th ed....so what is going to happen with them?
Lord Karsus
03-14-08, 12:27 AM -If I recall correctly, their roles were going to be more 'defined', as to seperate them more from Demons and Devils.
MarkusTay63
03-14-08, 03:28 AM Actually, I'm pretty sure they just became Demons.

I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles...

Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along.

I kid you not. :(
Another Gnome
03-14-08, 03:34 AM So, that differs from earlier yugoloths... how?
MarkusTay63
03-14-08, 06:38 AM Weren't the 'Loths a seperate race from the Demons?

Now I'm confused. :confused:

They are Daemons, right? Like the Demodands...
yarethon
03-14-08, 06:56 AM They will be demons living in the elemental chaos.
I am not sure where I read that, so I am apologize for not giving a course.
I think one of the designers said so at some point.
Khaelieth
03-14-08, 07:41 AM Actually, I'm pretty sure they just became Demons.

I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles...

Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along.

I kid you not. :(

Yeah, that's what i heard too.
Jiggawha
03-14-08, 07:47 AM I'll ignore this bs, loths are too complex for 4e
Stigger
03-14-08, 08:13 AM Doesn't matter to me one way or another to be honest, I stopped paying attention to all things planar once they ditched the Planescape concept... so it stopped being relevant since 2e for me.
Todesherr
03-14-08, 09:16 AM Doesn't matter to me one way or another to be honest, I stopped paying attention to all things planar once they ditched the Planescape concept... so it stopped being relevant since 2e for me.

I think the 4ed. folks are hoping for a miracle.

No Bloodwar...

No Yugoloths...

No REAL difference in the alignment system...

I guess they like taking chances...;) :eek:
Lord Karsus
03-14-08, 11:33 AM I'll ignore this bs, loths are too complex for 4e

-Good point.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-14-08, 11:46 AM Yugoloths are indeed becoming 4E demons. That doesn't mean they are "disappearing" into that classification, though (ie. there still will be creatures called Yugoloths).

Although of course, their roles are definitely going to become more "defined" (as with every other monster in the game). One point that is repeated over and over again by the designers is that they want to avoid elements in the game that seem repetitive and/or indistinct.
18DELTA
03-14-08, 01:03 PM -Check this out. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=979010)

18DELTA:D
Jiggawha
03-14-08, 02:05 PM -Check this out. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=979010)

18DELTA:D

whoa

yugodemons, lol

in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45 http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Yugo.jpg
18DELTA
03-14-08, 02:22 PM whoa

yugodemons, lol

in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45 http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Yugo.jpg
-:OMG! :gah: :blink: :twitch: :shifty: :rofl: :bow: I never want to see one of those again. That's why Communism fell!!!(A good thing):P TO FUNNY!!!:D

18DELTA;)
Khaelieth
03-14-08, 02:57 PM -:OMG! :gah: :blink: :twitch: :shifty: :rofl: :bow: I never want to see one of those again. That's why Communism fell!!!(A good thing):P TO FUNNY!!!:D

18DELTA;)

Yugoloths?

And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about!
GothicDan
03-14-08, 03:17 PM 'Loths would have made better Devils, if anything.
Lord Karsus
03-14-08, 03:28 PM And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about!

-Wasn't I just saying last night how it was all the Communists fault? :P
Fabius Maximus
03-14-08, 06:31 PM 'Loths would have made better Devils, if anything.
As they say: "Word!"
Shemeska the Marauder
03-14-08, 10:33 PM They're being turned into demons in 4e. Considering that the succubus was apparently too devilish to remain a demon for 4e, the rather devilish at times 'loths were made demons. I don't understand it either.

The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon.

The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization.

In my opinion the reasons for the 4e changes don't hold water if you're familiar with those sources. It seems to be change for the sake of change, and I can't say I'm very impressed with the substance of the 4e planar material (with slim exception like the changes made to the gelugon and its backstory).
Lord Karsus
03-14-08, 10:35 PM The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon.

-I know I've never pronounced it 'Demon'. The 'ae' makes a 'ay' sound.
GothicDan
03-15-08, 01:08 PM Like in Aesir.

That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them.
Todesherr
03-15-08, 10:58 PM Like in Aesir.

That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them.

Hae mutationes novae non mihi placent. Cur longam historiam huius mundi annullare volunt? Nonne intelligunt omnes mutationes istae ut periculum magnum pro futuro huius venalicii sint?
GothicDan
03-15-08, 11:39 PM I should really take a Latin WRITING class one day.

I can understand most of that, but can't reply.

Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world. :)
Todesherr
03-15-08, 11:44 PM I should really take a Latin WRITING class one day.

I can understand most of that, but can't reply.

Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world. :)

Yes, composition is important but particle physics is more important. Don't mind me. Weirdo Sum!

Basically it steals away any sense of realism from a fantasy setting...fantasy needs realism for the RPG experience...
GothicDan
03-15-08, 11:50 PM Weirdi sumus. ;)

And I agree 100%.
Todesherr
03-16-08, 12:11 AM Weirdi sumus. ;)

And I agree 100%.

That particle physics is more important than Latin composition or the bit about realism in a fantasy setting?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-16-08, 06:52 PM The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization.

Wow, that is odd. :-/
Another Gnome
03-17-08, 07:20 PM Differences between 3E and 4E core yugoloths need no more explanation than differences between D&D and Middle-Earth trolls. Sure a bit of backstory is nice to have to bridge edition changes in established campaign worlds, but where 'loths are concerned, they don't even have Realms-specific lore to explain. I mean, they got, what, a whopping 1 line of text in all the 3E Realms products combined?

When in all likelihood yugoloths in the Realms only experience the cosmetic changes to their stats, you might as well presume nothing's changed at all, regardless of core fluff.
MarkusTay63
03-18-08, 12:33 PM Maybe they'll have the Yugoloths take the Eladrins place in this crazy, mixed-up 4e world. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 03-13-08, 11:43 PM	There seems to have been little information on Yugoloths in 4th ed....so what is going to happen with them?
Lord Karsus 03-14-08, 12:27 AM	-If I recall correctly, their roles were going to be more 'defined', as to seperate them more from Demons and Devils.
MarkusTay63 03-14-08, 03:28 AM	Actually, I'm pretty sure they just became Demons. I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles... Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along. I kid you not. :(
Another Gnome 03-14-08, 03:34 AM	So, that differs from earlier yugoloths... how?
MarkusTay63 03-14-08, 06:38 AM	Weren't the 'Loths a seperate race from the Demons? Now I'm confused. :confused: They are Daemons, right? Like the Demodands...
yarethon 03-14-08, 06:56 AM	They will be demons living in the elemental chaos. I am not sure where I read that, so I am apologize for not giving a course. I think one of the designers said so at some point.
Khaelieth 03-14-08, 07:41 AM	Actually, I'm pretty sure they just became Demons. I think that was in the preview book, or maybe in one of those early articles... Yugoloths were just lying to everbody, and they were Demons all along. I kid you not. :( Yeah, that's what i heard too.
Jiggawha 03-14-08, 07:47 AM	I'll ignore this bs, loths are too complex for 4e
Stigger 03-14-08, 08:13 AM	Doesn't matter to me one way or another to be honest, I stopped paying attention to all things planar once they ditched the Planescape concept... so it stopped being relevant since 2e for me.
Todesherr 03-14-08, 09:16 AM	Doesn't matter to me one way or another to be honest, I stopped paying attention to all things planar once they ditched the Planescape concept... so it stopped being relevant since 2e for me. I think the 4ed. folks are hoping for a miracle. No Bloodwar... No Yugoloths... No REAL difference in the alignment system... I guess they like taking chances...;) :eek:
Lord Karsus 03-14-08, 11:33 AM	I'll ignore this bs, loths are too complex for 4e -Good point.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-14-08, 11:46 AM	Yugoloths are indeed becoming 4E demons. That doesn't mean they are "disappearing" into that classification, though (ie. there still will be creatures called Yugoloths). Although of course, their roles are definitely going to become more "defined" (as with every other monster in the game). One point that is repeated over and over again by the designers is that they want to avoid elements in the game that seem repetitive and/or indistinct.
18DELTA 03-14-08, 01:03 PM	-Check this out. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=979010) 18DELTA:D
Jiggawha 03-14-08, 02:05 PM	-Check this out. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=979010) 18DELTA:D whoa yugodemons, lol in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45 http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Yugo.jpg
18DELTA 03-14-08, 02:22 PM	whoa yugodemons, lol in terms of quality 4e loths = yugo 45 http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Yugo.jpg -:OMG! :gah: :blink: :twitch: :shifty: :rofl: :bow: I never want to see one of those again. That's why Communism fell!!!(A good thing):P TO FUNNY!!!:D 18DELTA;)
Khaelieth 03-14-08, 02:57 PM	-:OMG! :gah: :blink: :twitch: :shifty: :rofl: :bow: I never want to see one of those again. That's why Communism fell!!!(A good thing):P TO FUNNY!!!:D 18DELTA;) Yugoloths? And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about!
GothicDan 03-14-08, 03:17 PM	'Loths would have made better Devils, if anything.
Lord Karsus 03-14-08, 03:28 PM	And China, Cuba and North Korea's still about! -Wasn't I just saying last night how it was all the Communists fault? :P
Fabius Maximus 03-14-08, 06:31 PM	'Loths would have made better Devils, if anything. As they say: "Word!"
Shemeska the Marauder 03-14-08, 10:33 PM	They're being turned into demons in 4e. Considering that the succubus was apparently too devilish to remain a demon for 4e, the rather devilish at times 'loths were made demons. I don't understand it either. The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon. The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization. In my opinion the reasons for the 4e changes don't hold water if you're familiar with those sources. It seems to be change for the sake of change, and I can't say I'm very impressed with the substance of the 4e planar material (with slim exception like the changes made to the gelugon and its backstory).
Lord Karsus 03-14-08, 10:35 PM	The reasons for the decision in the preview book were that the old 1e name for the 'loths: daemons, was pronounced demons, so it made sense based on that. Of course the only published pronunciation for the 1e daemons pronounced it daymon, not demon. -I know I've never pronounced it 'Demon'. The 'ae' makes a 'ay' sound.
GothicDan 03-15-08, 01:08 PM	Like in Aesir. That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them.
Todesherr 03-15-08, 10:58 PM	Like in Aesir. That being said, Shemmy's reasons for 4E's switching them to "demons" makes me laugh. It's like a bunch of elementary school kids thinking they're slick, with the teacher just shaking his head behind them. Hae mutationes novae non mihi placent. Cur longam historiam huius mundi annullare volunt? Nonne intelligunt omnes mutationes istae ut periculum magnum pro futuro huius venalicii sint?
GothicDan 03-15-08, 11:39 PM	I should really take a Latin WRITING class one day. I can understand most of that, but can't reply. Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world. :)
Todesherr 03-15-08, 11:44 PM	I should really take a Latin WRITING class one day. I can understand most of that, but can't reply. Suffice it to say, the changes are unintelligent, and they don't care about the history of the world. :) Yes, composition is important but particle physics is more important. Don't mind me. Weirdo Sum! Basically it steals away any sense of realism from a fantasy setting...fantasy needs realism for the RPG experience...
GothicDan 03-15-08, 11:50 PM	Weirdi sumus. ;) And I agree 100%.
Todesherr 03-16-08, 12:11 AM	Weirdi sumus. ;) And I agree 100%. That particle physics is more important than Latin composition or the bit about realism in a fantasy setting?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-16-08, 06:52 PM	The other reason given was that since the first 1e daemons appeared in the the module Queen of the Demonweb Pits, and the drow were CE, and the daemons they had summoned were working for them... it made perfect sense for the yugoloths in 4e to be CE demons. Back to their roots supposedly. Of course the fact that the module explicitely stated that those daemons were natives of Hades and Gehenna, and equally likely to be found in the Abyss of the 9 Hells and had no special connection to either of those latter planes is curiously overlooked for the 4e rationalization. Wow, that is odd. :-/
Another Gnome 03-17-08, 07:20 PM	Differences between 3E and 4E core yugoloths need no more explanation than differences between D&D and Middle-Earth trolls. Sure a bit of backstory is nice to have to bridge edition changes in established campaign worlds, but where 'loths are concerned, they don't even have Realms-specific lore to explain. I mean, they got, what, a whopping 1 line of text in all the 3E Realms products combined? When in all likelihood yugoloths in the Realms only experience the cosmetic changes to their stats, you might as well presume nothing's changed at all, regardless of core fluff.
MarkusTay63 03-18-08, 12:33 PM	Maybe they'll have the Yugoloths take the Eladrins place in this crazy, mixed-up 4e world. :P