Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 11-16-07, 07:29 PM	elding together? I just skimmed some stuff here about 4th edition and new ecclesiastical structures, deities becoming 'heroes' and some other things. What's going on? Please Inform This Benighted Soul! Cheers...
Stigger 11-16-07, 07:47 PM	The deities are getting wiped after Cyric kills off Mystra in Dweomerheart, bring an apocalyptic event into the Realms... Shar seems to be pulling the strings, most divine realms not maintained by Greater Powers are swept away in the chaos... Helm got whacked by Tyr just prior to it... a great bloody mess to be honest. Take a look at A Grand History of the Realms (published, not the pdf), the last two pages specifically give a brief overview of this stuff.
Todesherr 11-16-07, 08:25 PM	The deities are getting wiped after Cyric kills off Mystra in Dweomerheart, bring an apocalyptic event into the Realms... Shar seems to be pulling the strings, most divine realms not maintained by Greater Powers are swept away in the chaos... Helm got whacked by Tyr just prior to it... a great bloody mess to be honest. Take a look at A Grand History of the Realms (published, not the pdf), the last two pages specifically give a brief overview of this stuff. I know. I have the book. BUT it mentions nothing of new hierarchies, new organisation, etc....is that all just speculation, mentioned in another thread...?
Mula 11-16-07, 11:33 PM	I think it was Rich Baker who's hinted at what's to come. Basically, we'll only have around 20-40 actual deities who have their very own continent wide churches. All the rest are servitor godlings, a bit like saints or hero deities, serving the proper gods and goddesses. Think Hermes and Iris from Greek mythology, or something close.
Stigger 11-17-07, 12:51 AM	Ah, sorry misinterpreted the question... what Mula said then seems to sum up about all that we know of it. No specifics have been given that I'm aware of.
Todesherr 11-17-07, 01:27 AM	I think it was Rich Baker who's hinted at what's to come. Basically, we'll only have around 20-40 actual deities who have their very own continent wide churches. All the rest are servitor godlings, a bit like saints or hero deities, serving the proper gods and goddesses. Think Hermes and Iris from Greek mythology, or something close. By Ao, I hope Torm stays a true deity....:eek:
GreenKnight 11-17-07, 01:46 AM	I hope he stays a true deity, too... by taking the Portfolios possessed by Helm and Tyr and becoming a Greater God. :D
Todesherr 11-17-07, 03:10 AM	I hope he stays a true deity, too... by taking the Portfolios possessed by Helm and Tyr and becoming a Greater God. :D I am for at least Intermediate Power status and just taking over Helm's portfolio. That seems realistic, more so than elevation to Greater Deity status..plus Torm is super popular as a god; people would (fans) be outraged if he were turned into some quasi-divine hero!
Stigger 11-17-07, 12:15 PM	I'm leaning towards Torm being reduced to minion status in the great shake-up... seems the way its headed at least. As to fan outrage... have you looked at the boards lately? Since when does fan outrage seem to come into play with WotCs strategies here?
18DELTA 11-17-07, 03:47 PM	Lets not forget that Bane is now a core God!:teach: :gah: :blink: :emp: :D
Todesherr 11-17-07, 10:06 PM	Lets not forget that Bane is now a core God!:teach: :gah: :blink: :emp: :D Explain Core God, Please...:confused:
Puritan13 11-17-07, 10:36 PM	Bane is part of the Core pantheon of gods now. You know, along with Pelor and some of the other Greyhawk deities.
Mula 11-17-07, 10:38 PM	Lets not forget that Bane is now a core God!:teach: :gah: :blink: :emp: :D And that affects the Realms how...? Did you check Corellon's description in the 3e PHBs? Yondalla's? Garl Glittergold...? Moradin? Uhm, Gruumsh?
Todesherr 11-17-07, 11:14 PM	Bane is part of the Core pantheon of gods now. You know, along with Pelor and some of the other Greyhawk deities. So.....Oerth gods are Toril gods too now?! I can't see the need on Oerth for Bane; they already have Hextor. I just don't get it....very strange indeed....:eek:
Dark Wizard 11-17-07, 11:24 PM	So.....Oerth gods are Toril gods too now?! I can't see the need on Oerth for Bane; they already have Hextor. I just don't get it....very strange indeed....:eek: WotC hinted at dropping Hextor from the core along with Heironious. Bane steps in for Hextor and Bahamut will fill a similar role to Heironious (diversified to include non-dragons of course).
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 11:45 PM	For core, but perhaps not for GH - it's all so confusing. They said they were moving away form 'core' vs 'setting' at Gencon, yet they sem to be divorcing 'core' form GH now - either that or FR is becoming the new 'core', which would make some sense in light of the RPGA taking it for their stuff now.
18DELTA 11-18-07, 12:03 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071029 There you go, also Bahamut is now the God of Paladins in 4E. Thats why Bahamut was recently given a bigger role in Realmslore.;) They dont want to confuse the 13yr olds!:P
Todesherr 11-18-07, 12:08 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071029 There you go, also Bahamut is now the God of Paladins in 4E. Thats why Bahamut was recently given a bigger role in Realmslore.;) They dont want to confuse the 13yr olds!:P And what of Torm? He IS the Paladin god!:mad:
18DELTA 11-18-07, 12:24 AM	Its good to see ya around Todesherr.
Mula 11-18-07, 12:26 AM	The fantasy world described in the 4e core books has nothing to do with Forgotten Realms. Greyhawk, FR, or Eberron are not the "core" setting in 4e. It's a brand new fantasy world, though I doubt they'll actually publish a proper campaign guide for it. Bane appears in the PHB pantheon because the designers wanted a tyrannical evil deity there, and they figured Bane fit the requirements better than Hextor, since they decided that Heironeous wasn't as coo--wait, uhm, interesting as Bahamut, who now, in the 4e PHB, represents more than just good dragons and... arctic winds? Hextor isn't as--fascinating as Bane.
Todesherr 11-18-07, 12:29 AM	The fantasy world described in the 4e core books has nothing to do with Forgotten Realms. Greyhawk, FR, or Eberron are not the "core" setting in 4e. It's a brand new fantasy world, though I doubt they'll actually publish a proper campaign guide for it. Bane appears in the PHB pantheon because the designers wanted a tyrannical evil deity there, and they figured Bane fit the requirements better than Hextor, since they decided that Heironeous wasn't as coo--wait, uhm, interesting as Bahamut, who now, in the 4e PHB, represents more than just good dragons and... arctic winds? Hextor isn't as--fascinating as Bane. So is Bane in the FR too?
GreenKnight 11-18-07, 12:37 AM	The Core Pantheon /= Oerth Pantheon /= Faerunian Pantheon. The Core Pantheon is for the Points of Light implied setting in the 4E PHB. The Points of Light setting is not Greyhawk, so it doesn't impact on Greyhawk, in any way. Nor does it impact Forgotten Realms. Corellon Larethian, Moradin, and Gruumsh were in the 3.5 PHB, and yet Boccob, Hextor, and all the rest didn't find their way into Faerun. Just because they exist on both Oerth and Faerun, it doesn't mean that EVERY SINGLE GOD from Oerth HAS to appear on Faerun. Likewise with Bane. Just because Bane exists in the Core Pantheon, it doesn't mean that Asmodeus and Bahamut are gonna find their way into Faerun, either. Yes, Bane exists in more then one Pantheon. So what? Tyr's originally from the Asgardian Pantheon. Is anyone worried about Loki, Thor, and Odin showing up just because Tyr's got a membership in another pantheon? Oghma and Silvanus are also from other Pantheons, yet they're not dragging their buddies from those Pantheons over to Faerun. Likewise, just because Bane is part of another pantheon, it doesn't mean all the gods from that pantheon are suddenly gonna swoop into Faerun and supplant all the native gods. And for those who aren't aware, this isn't the first time that Bane has been worshipped on other worlds. He's also worshipped in Ravenloft, as well. The only other Forgotten Realms god there is Lathander, and they're worshipped alongside the likes of Ezra, Belenus, and Hala. And yet Ezra, Belenus, and Hala haven't shown up in the Realms, despite both Bane and Lathander existing there. So relax. Bane being a member of the Core Pantheon doesn't mean the Core Pantheon is gonna supplant the Faerunian Pantheon. And Bane being God of War in the Core Pantheon doesn't mean he's gonna kill Tempus and become God of War in Faerun. Once again, just look at Tyr. In the Faerunian Pantheon, he's a Greater God of Justice. But in the Asgardian Pantheon, he's an Intermediate God of Courage, Trust, Strategy, Tactics, and Writing. Lolth is another example, as she's got more Portfolios in Faerun then she does in Oerth. It's possible to not only exist in more then one pantheon, but to have wildly divergent powers and Portfolios in each of those pantheons.
18DELTA 11-18-07, 12:39 AM	So is Bane in the FR too? Yes sir, he got promoted so to speak.;) He is still Bane, he is also now a Core God.:D I always thought Bane was the Sex, I hated that he Died, was jumping for Joy when He made the big come back(Closet Banite ok, now you now!:P) He is the new Mystra, I hope they dont off him for good in 4.5E, or 5E(THEY WILL SAY HE IS TO TRYANNICAL IN THE GAME, DUH THATS WHAT HE DOES)!:D
Todesherr 11-18-07, 01:00 AM	The Core Pantheon /= Oerth Pantheon /= Faerunian Pantheon. The Core Pantheon is for the Points of Light implied setting in the 4E PHB. The Points of Light setting is not Greyhawk, so it doesn't impact on Greyhawk, in any way. Nor does it impact Forgotten Realms. Corellon Larethian, Moradin, and Gruumsh were in the 3.5 PHB, and yet Boccob, Hextor, and all the rest didn't find their way into Faerun. Just because they exist on both Oerth and Faerun, it doesn't mean that EVERY SINGLE GOD from Oerth HAS to appear on Faerun. Likewise with Bane. Just because Bane exists in the Core Pantheon, it doesn't mean that Asmodeus and Bahamut are gonna find their way into Faerun, either. Yes, Bane exists in more then one Pantheon. So what? Tyr's originally from the Asgardian Pantheon. Is anyone worried about Loki, Thor, and Odin showing up just because Tyr's got a membership in another pantheon? Oghma and Silvanus are also from other Pantheons, yet they're not dragging their buddies from those Pantheons over to Faerun. Likewise, just because Bane is part of another pantheon, it doesn't mean all the gods from that pantheon are suddenly gonna swoop into Faerun and supplant all the native gods. And for those who aren't aware, this isn't the first time that Bane has been worshipped on other worlds. He's also worshipped in Ravenloft, as well. The only other Forgotten Realms god there is Lathander, and they're worshipped alongside the likes of Ezra, Belenus, and Hala. And yet Ezra, Belenus, and Hala haven't shown up in the Realms, despite both Bane and Lathander existing there. So relax. Bane being a member of the Core Pantheon doesn't mean the Core Pantheon is gonna supplant the Faerunian Pantheon. And Bane being God of War in the Core Pantheon doesn't mean he's gonna kill Tempus and become God of War in Faerun. Once again, just look at Tyr. In the Faerunian Pantheon, he's a Greater God of Justice. But in the Asgardian Pantheon, he's an Intermediate God of Courage, Trust, Strategy, Tactics, and Writing. Lolth is another example, as she's got more Portfolios in Faerun then she does in Oerth. It's possible to not only exist in more then one pantheon, but to have wildly divergent powers and Portfolios in each of those pantheons. Meh, I like Bane fine...just want to keep Torm around... No God of Magic then, huh? All of them die apparently?
GreenKnight 11-18-07, 01:09 AM	No God of Magic then, huh? All of them die apparently? Who're you talking about?
Todesherr 11-18-07, 01:15 AM	Who're you talking about? Mystra, Azuth, Savras, etc...dead, gone, floating in the Astral...
GreenKnight 11-18-07, 01:32 AM	Mystra is dead. That doesn't mean that Azuth, etc are dead. Maybe one or two more are, but I haven't heard anything to say that all the gods in Dweomerheart are dead. I'm fairly certain, at any rate, that Azuth and Velsharoon survived.
Zireael 11-19-07, 09:39 AM	I heard that Velsharoon and Azuth are dead 'cause they got out in Astral and I hope Torm will stay as a god of paladins - I don't want Bahamut in FR!
Mula 11-19-07, 01:09 PM	Bahamut is in the Realms already.
Asgetrion 11-22-07, 04:41 AM	Mystra is dead. That doesn't mean that Azuth, etc are dead. Maybe one or two more are, but I haven't heard anything to say that all the gods in Dweomerheart are dead. I'm fairly certain, at any rate, that Azuth and Velsharoon survived. Well, IIRC it's mentioned in the GHoTR that all the "lesser" deities of Magic (Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon) have either died or been banished to the Astral Plane. Corellon is the only deity of Magic left in FR.
Asgetrion 11-22-07, 04:44 AM	The Core Pantheon /= Oerth Pantheon /= Faerunian Pantheon. The Core Pantheon is for the Points of Light implied setting in the 4E PHB. The Points of Light setting is not Greyhawk, so it doesn't impact on Greyhawk, in any way. Nor does it impact Forgotten Realms. Actually, Rich Baker has mentioned that they'd like to see FR becoming more "Points-of-Lightish". In my opinion it is more than evident that this *concept* is being shoehorned into FR -- just take a look at what little we know of the upcoming changes (especially in 'The Orc King' and GHotR).