Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 11-17-07, 11:26 AM	Not only should Torm stay and not become a 'saint' of Tyr, he should take over Helm's portfolio and be elevated in power.... Let's petition WotC to do it...who's with me?
Sol_Odlanier 11-17-07, 11:32 AM	Count me in!
SmartPaladin 11-17-07, 06:02 PM	The SmartPaladin of Hoar too backs this petition.
GreenKnight 11-17-07, 07:07 PM	I think the rumors are that Torm's going to be picking up Helm's Porfolios, so no worries in that regard. That, however, isn't good enough for me. I want that interloping schmuck Tyr OUT of the Forgotten Realms, especially after what he did to Helm, and have the Portfolio of Justice handed over to Torm. If it were up to me, Torm's entry in the upcoming Forgotten Realms Player's Guide would be something like this. TORM (Greater God) The True God, the Just God, the Watcher Symbol: Upright war gauntlet holding the scales of justice, with a staring eye engraved on the front Alignment: Lawful Good Portfolio: Justice, Duty, Loyalty, Obedience, Protection, Protectors, Guardians, Paladins Domains: Good, Law, Protection, Retribution, Strength, War Favored Weapon: Bastard Sword Now that would be awesome. He'd make a great opponent for Bane, Cyric, and Mask. Not to mention he'd be pretty powerful. Tyr by himself is already Divine Rank 18. If Tyr had all those Portfolios then he could very well be Divine Rank 19, if not 20. The same would probably be true of Torm, as well. That might be enough for him to be able to hand out seven Domains to his Clerics, putting Planning on the list of available Domains. When it comes to his Favored Weapon, I figured Bastard Sword would be a good compromise. Tyr favored the Longsword, Torm the Greatsword, while Helm favored the Bastard Sword. The Bastard Sword is the best compromise between all of those, and I can see Torm adopting it as his Favored Weapon in honor of both Tyr and Helm (Especially Helm, a good friend of his who's now dead). Or he could simply stick with the Greatsword. It doesn't really matter. As for his holy symbol, another idea I had was a symbol of a sword pointing down (a Bastard Sword or Greatsword), with a crossguard which has the symbol of the scales of justice etched on them, and the symbol of the vigilant eye on the pommel. Whatever the case, I'd love to see Torm elevated to Greater God status. It'd accomplish several things at once. 1) It'd remove an interloping deity from the Faerunian Pantheon. Tyr? They may as well have thrown in Thor or Hercules, that's how much of a sore thumb he is. Bad enough that they redid the story of Fenris with Kezef the Chaos Hound. 2) Removing Tyr would also serve the added benefit of distancing 4E Forgottem Realms from that abortion of a plotline involving Tyr/Helm/Tymora. If Tyr leaves Faerun in shame over what he did to Helm, then that, IMO, would be enough to salvage that plotline and make that story worthwhile. 3) Torm is beginning to occupy a pretty important part in Faerunian mythology, especially after the Time of Troubles. He killed Bane in what was an epic battle. And with Bane's return, people have been looking to Torm to protect them. Think about it. How many people are afraid due to the return of Bane to the world? And that fear is something which Bane feeds on. Now out of those people, how many are filled with a sense of hope at the thought that Torm will rise up again and cast Bane down? How many look to brush away that fear with the thought of Torm destroying Bane, again? With Bane's return, Torm suddenly occupies a much more important place in the Faerunian Pantheon. 4) Last but not least, there's the story of his actions during the Time of Troubles, itself. It's a magnificent story which I'm sure only becomes more amazing and moving with each telling. Torm sacrificed himself to save his worshippers. And then he rose again. Seriously, he's like the Jesus Christ of the Forgotten Realms. Couple that with the return of Bane, and you've got the perfect recipe for a god who's destined to become the head of a continent spanning church. You've got God, and you've got the Devil. You've got Christ, and you've got Anti-Christ. It doesn't get any better then that.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-17-07, 09:33 PM	Not with you, because Helm should never have died.
Todesherr 11-17-07, 09:53 PM	I think the rumors are that Torm's going to be picking up Helm's Porfolios, so no worries in that regard. That, however, isn't good enough for me. I want that interloping schmuck Tyr OUT of the Forgotten Realms, especially after what he did to Helm, and have the Portfolio of Justice handed over to Torm. If it were up to me, Torm's entry in the upcoming Forgotten Realms Player's Guide would be something like this. TORM (Greater God) The True God, the Just God, the Watcher Symbol: Upright war gauntlet holding the scales of justice, with a staring eye engraved on the front Alignment: Lawful Good Portfolio: Justice, Duty, Loyalty, Obedience, Protection, Protectors, Guardians, Paladins Domains: Good, Law, Protection, Retribution, Strength, War Favored Weapon: Bastard Sword Now that would be awesome. He'd make a great opponent for Bane, Cyric, and Mask. Not to mention he'd be pretty powerful. Tyr by himself is already Divine Rank 18. If Tyr had all those Portfolios then he could very well be Divine Rank 19, if not 20. The same would probably be true of Torm, as well. That might be enough for him to be able to hand out seven Domains to his Clerics, putting Planning on the list of available Domains. When it comes to his Favored Weapon, I figured Bastard Sword would be a good compromise. Tyr favored the Longsword, Torm the Greatsword, while Helm favored the Bastard Sword. The Bastard Sword is the best compromise between all of those, and I can see Torm adopting it as his Favored Weapon in honor of both Tyr and Helm (Especially Helm, a good friend of his who's now dead). Or he could simply stick with the Greatsword. It doesn't really matter. As for his holy symbol, another idea I had was a symbol of a sword pointing down (a Bastard Sword or Greatsword), with a crossguard which has the symbol of the scales of justice etched on them, and the symbol of the vigilant eye on the pommel. Whatever the case, I'd love to see Torm elevated to Greater God status. It'd accomplish several things at once. 1) It'd remove an interloping deity from the Faerunian Pantheon. Tyr? They may as well have thrown in Thor or Hercules, that's how much of a sore thumb he is. Bad enough that they redid the story of Fenris with Kezef the Chaos Hound. 2) Removing Tyr would also serve the added benefit of distancing 4E Forgottem Realms from that abortion of a plotline involving Tyr/Helm/Tymora. If Tyr leaves Faerun in shame over what he did to Helm, then that, IMO, would be enough to salvage that plotline and make that story worthwhile. 3) Torm is beginning to occupy a pretty important part in Faerunian mythology, especially after the Time of Troubles. He killed Bane in what was an epic battle. And with Bane's return, people have been looking to Torm to protect them. Think about it. How many people are afraid due to the return of Bane to the world? And that fear is something which Bane feeds on. Now out of those people, how many are filled with a sense of hope at the thought that Torm will rise up again and cast Bane down? How many look to brush away that fear with the thought of Torm destroying Bane, again? With Bane's return, Torm suddenly occupies a much more important place in the Faerunian Pantheon. 4) Last but not least, there's the story of his actions during the Time of Troubles, itself. It's a magnificent story which I'm sure only becomes more amazing and moving with each telling. Torm sacrificed himself to save his worshippers. And then he rose again. Seriously, he's like the Jesus Christ of the Forgotten Realms. Couple that with the return of Bane, and you've got the perfect recipe for a god who's destined to become the head of a continent spanning church. You've got God, and you've got the Devil. You've got Christ, and you've got Anti-Christ. It doesn't get any better then that. I'd be satisfied with his just acquiring Helm's portfolio and being raised in power. I think game developers know how much we fans love Torm. He is the peoples' god, approachable, righteous and self-sacrificing. But who knows, they could well do away with all trappings of divine rank....we just don't know. For the record, btw, I don't like Tyr much either.
Dark Wizard 11-17-07, 10:05 PM	I liked the whole Triad setup plus Helm as a 'consultant', but if I had to choose one to drop, Tyr would be who I let go. Talk about taking out the "safeties" in the Realms. If they removed him, it would rid of one of the pillars of good and order in the Realms. His allies (much weaker deities) struggling to keep evil at bay.
GreenKnight 11-18-07, 12:19 AM	I'd be satisfied with his just acquiring Helm's portfolio and being raised in power. Becoming an Intermediate Deity wouldn't really help him for your purposes, anyway, as he'd still just be a servitor deity to Tyr. Apparently, unless you're a "Greater God", then you're just a regional god/hero of the faith. A saint in the church of the Greater God. So boosting him to Intermediate God status wouldn't change anything for him. He'd have to become a Greater God in order to be treater as an out-and-out god in the Forgotten Realms, and not just an Angel or Saint in Tyr's service.
johnkretzer 11-18-07, 02:38 AM	I'd be satisfied with his just acquiring Helm's portfolio and being raised in power. I think game developers know how much we fans love Torm. He is the peoples' god, approachable, righteous and self-sacrificing. Except for the fact that Tyr would be the one getting the Helm portfolio...he was the one who killed him after all. Also I doubt the designers know what the fans love.
Todesherr 11-18-07, 02:48 AM	Becoming an Intermediate Deity wouldn't really help him for your purposes, anyway, as he'd still just be a servitor deity to Tyr. Apparently, unless you're a "Greater God", then you're just a regional god/hero of the faith. A saint in the church of the Greater God. So boosting him to Intermediate God status wouldn't change anything for him. He'd have to become a Greater God in order to be treater as an out-and-out god in the Forgotten Realms, and not just an Angel or Saint in Tyr's service. This is disturbing as it alludes to the total ovehauling of the the deific power range. It seems there are only gods, i.e. Greater Powers and that's it; those are the gods and everything else is some immortal being or servitor...very disturbing.... Torm has died a second death and he won't be resurrected....:weep:
Lord Karsus 11-18-07, 04:43 PM	-I'm all for Torm gaining a whole lotta power.
Duagloth 11-18-07, 05:03 PM	I stay with the "replace the name Helm with Torm in GhotR". Would make more sense.
GreenKnight 11-18-07, 05:33 PM	I stay with the "replace the name Helm with Torm in GhotR". Would make more sense. It'd make less sense. Torm's got a thing for the Red Knight. Why would anyone think he was sweet on Tymora?
Sol_Odlanier 11-18-07, 10:34 PM	I stay with the "replace the name Helm with Torm in GhotR". Would make more sense. -Don't mind Duagloth Green, he/she is just a HATER!!!:)
johnkretzer 11-19-07, 12:06 AM	It'd make less sense. Torm's got a thing for the Red Knight. Why would anyone think he was sweet on Tymora? Yeah as much sense as Tymora having a thing for Tyr or Helm.
Lord Karsus 11-19-07, 12:16 AM	Yeah as much sense as Tymora having a thing for Tyr or Helm. -She digs guys in uniform?
Dark Wizard 11-19-07, 12:21 AM	It'd make less sense. Torm's got a thing for the Red Knight. Why would anyone think he was sweet on Tymora? Don't worry, there's plenty of Torm to go around.
GreenKnight 11-19-07, 01:06 AM	In 4E, Torm's titles will be The True, The True God, The Loyal Fury, and Big Pimpin'.
Duagloth 11-19-07, 02:41 AM	It'd make less sense. Torm's got a thing for the Red Knight. Why would anyone think he was sweet on Tymora? Same with Helm. But why would Tyr send Helm to do anything? Why would Helm do it? Tyr would send Torm. Torm would do it. Just makes more sense. :) Not that everything must make sense.
GreenKnight 11-19-07, 03:22 AM	Same with Helm. Helm's single, while Torm's putting his cheap moves on the Red Knight. It's a bit more plausible to believe that Helm might be seduced by Tymora then the "God of Loyalty". The Red Knight doesn't ever have to worry about Torm stepping out on her. But why would Tyr send Helm to do anything? I think the idea is to keep an eye on her, and make sure she doesn't two-time Tyr (What with Tymora having a well earned rep for being a skank and all). And who better to keep an eye on her then Helm, a guy who bills himself as "The Vigilant One" and "The Watcher"? Why would Helm do it? Cause Tyr's his boss, too. Just makes more sense. Not really, as the job Tyr wanted done was right up Helm's alley. That's his whole schtick, after all. So in that regard, sending Helm makes more sense. But that's not saying much, as that whole abortion of a plotline makes no sense whatsoever.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-19-07, 01:44 PM	Yeah, if Tyr really wanted to woo Tymora, why didn't he friggin' do it himself? Was he too important to meet Tymora in person?:rolleyes:
Duagloth 11-19-07, 02:06 PM	Helm's single, while Torm's putting his cheap moves on the Red Knight. It's a bit more plausible to believe that Helm might be seduced by Tymora then the "God of Loyalty". The Red Knight doesn't ever have to worry about Torm stepping out on her. I think the idea is to keep an eye on her, and make sure she doesn't two-time Tyr (What with Tymora having a well earned rep for being a skank and all). And who better to keep an eye on her then Helm, a guy who bills himself as "The Vigilant One" and "The Watcher"? Cause Tyr's his boss, too. Not really, as the job Tyr wanted done was right up Helm's alley. That's his whole schtick, after all. So in that regard, sending Helm makes more sense. But that's not saying much, as that whole abortion of a plotline makes no sense whatsoever. If Torm isnt single anymore, a reason more to send him instead of Helm. And Torm as god of loyality makes a good messenger for Tyr. (Why he needed one is just ... well i really cant give an answer to that.) I dont know if Helm has to do what Tyr says, just because Tyr is a greater god. Maybe because they have their realms on the same plane? Bah, Torm or Helm. The whole storie has some senseless parts.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-19-07, 03:58 PM	If Torm isnt single anymore, a reason more to send him instead of Helm. Almost all of the gods tend to be "single" on a regular basis. I dont know if Helm has to do what Tyr says, just because Tyr is a greater god. I can say that *I* don't recall that Helm has to do whatever Tyr tells him to. I don't think Helm is Tyr's servant the way Torm and Ilmater are. And speaking as a woman, if a man was interested in me, I'd want to hear all the sweet nothings from him, not some go-between. "Hey, by the way, my friend really, really likes you, and he's asked me to tell you about how interested he is. How about you two talk back and forth to each other through me?" How corny.:rolleyes:
Sol_Odlanier 11-19-07, 04:15 PM	Helm, a guy who bills himself as "The Vigilant One" and "The Watcher"? It Just realize the whole thing, Helm's A "Pipping Tom"!!!:eek:
Lord Karsus 11-20-07, 12:10 PM	Yeah, if Tyr really wanted to woo Tymora, why didn't he friggin' do it himself? Was he too important to meet Tymora in person?:rolleyes: -Wooing by proxy doesn't cut it? ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-20-07, 12:16 PM	-Wooing by proxy doesn't cut it? ;) I think it's dumb.:) Old-fashioned in a bad way.
The_Shaman 11-20-07, 12:17 PM	Sheesh, talk about demeaning... A god being made into a matchmaker? Ouch. Anyway, I can live without Tyr, but I think Torm tends to be rather harsh in his justice. Without Ilmater to balance him, the Triad - or what's left of it - can have too much law and not enough good. I don't think you'd need to have weaker good deities to make a darker Faerun, mind you - and besides, it can be pretty dark at times even now.
Todesherr 11-20-07, 10:27 PM	Sheesh, talk about demeaning... A god being made into a matchmaker? Ouch. Anyway, I can live without Tyr, but I think Torm tends to be rather harsh in his justice. Without Ilmater to balance him, the Triad - or what's left of it - can have too much law and not enough good. I don't think you'd need to have weaker good deities to make a darker Faerun, mind you - and besides, it can be pretty dark at times even now. Actually it's Tyr who is the overly lawful one...Torm is in the middle...
Lord Karsus 11-20-07, 11:23 PM	Actually it's Tyr who is the overly lawful one...Torm is in the middle... -Torm is lawful too. Tom is Lawful Good, however.
Stigger 11-21-07, 02:33 AM	Feh, kill off all the LG deities and replace them with the divine Muppet pantheon I say...
Lord Karsus 11-22-07, 01:08 AM	Feh, kill off all the LG deities and replace them with the divine Muppet pantheon I say... -Sweedish Chef: Patron of Meatballs
Stigger 11-22-07, 02:22 AM	All shall bow to him, and it will be good... :bow:
Sol_Odlanier 11-22-07, 09:58 AM	- I can't see "Lord Kermmit Overseer Of The Green" killing "Lord Gonzo Of the Far Realm, Alienist Supreme" over "Mistress Peggy The Chubby Attittude" though:confused:
Stigger 11-22-07, 12:03 PM	No, Muppets don't do that sort of thing, they're superior that way, and leave such folly to human pantheons. :D
unrepentantweed 11-26-07, 10:49 AM	Hail Torm!
Storm_Silverhand 11-26-07, 04:57 PM	Heya, (What with Tymora having a well earned rep for being a skank and all). Hey, watch your language!! :mad:
GreenKnight 11-26-07, 06:02 PM	But it's true! :rofl:
Stigger 11-26-07, 07:34 PM	No idea how it is even vaguely true there... the word 'skank' was one that never entered my mind to describe any deity of the Realms.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-26-07, 08:04 PM	No idea how it is even vaguely true there... the word 'skank' was one that never entered my mind to describe any deity of the Realms. Nor mine, I must admit...
infinite_ant 11-26-07, 11:08 PM	I don't know, making Torm a higher deity just seems weird, he has the portfolios: Duty, Loyalty and Obedience and removing his status as a servitor might make him look like a Tyrant. "Torm serves Tyr as a war leader and champion, as he once did for a mortal monarch in the days immediately following the Fall of Netheril." -F&P I hope there is a station for this level of servitor in 4e that will fit him, he looks like a really cool deity. Maybe you'd settle for Red Knight absorbing Tyr or Tempus and Torm serving her?
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 12:40 AM	No idea how it is even vaguely true there... the word 'skank' was one that never entered my mind to describe any deity of the Realms. Skank 1) A rhythmic dance performed to reggae or ska music, characterized by bending forward, raising the knees, and extending the hands. (Eilistraee, the only deity I can think of who likes to dance.) 2) Disgusting or vulgar matter; filth. (Moander, filthy, rotting bastard that he is.) 3) One who is disgustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl. (Sharess, being sexually promiscuous and all that.) -See, so the Realms has multiple skanks. :)
johnkretzer 11-27-07, 01:09 AM	Skank 1) A rhythmic dance performed to reggae or ska music, characterized by bending forward, raising the knees, and extending the hands. (Eilistraee, the only deity I can think of who likes to dance.) um...you forgot poor Lliira, the best goddess ever but always overlooked. 2) Disgusting or vulgar matter; filth. (Moander, filthy, rotting bastard that he is.) There is also the god of ooze, slimes, etc...I just can't think of his name right now. Also I find Cyric very vulgar and disgusting. 3) One who is disgustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl. (Sharess, being sexually promiscuous and all that.) I don't think that fits Sharess very much as she is not disgustingly foul or filthy. So not all sexual promiscous women are skanks. Also this defination is very offensive. -See, so the Realms has multiple skanks. :) There are but I really can't think of any that fit the third desciption...though hags of all kinds do.
Stigger 11-27-07, 01:58 AM	:P @ LK... I can't say I've ever heard of Reggae or Ska having migrated to the Realms so... no. I can't say it would ever occur to describe Moander that way. And I most certainly would not describe Sharess in such a manner. Nor do I see anything innately wrong with sexual promiscuity, so... no. So... no. :P
GreenKnight 11-27-07, 03:01 AM	Skank 3) One who is disgustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl. Hmm. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/278025/2251098skankityskank.jpg So what do I win? :devil: But just to be fair, Tymora can't compare to the likes of Elminster in general skankiness. Bad enough that he's spreading around every STD known to Faerun. But he's a wrinkly old guy, too. And that's just plain gross. -This message has been brought to you by the Green Knight, #1 Doubter of Tymora's Virtue, and proud member of O.D.O.M. (Opponents of Dirty Old Men. "Keep yer hands off muh wimmin, gramps!")
Stigger 11-27-07, 03:25 AM	Your Freud is showing there GK... :P ;)
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 03:34 AM	um...you forgot poor Lliira, the best goddess ever but always overlooked. -Ah, that's right. Her too. There is also the god of ooze, slimes, etc...I just can't think of his name right now. -Ghaunadaur. I don't think that fits Sharess very much as she is not disgustingly foul or filthy. So not all sexual promiscous women are skanks. -You ever hear her mouth? One might even say that she has a filthy mouth. She likes to talk dirty in bed. She also is into some of those odd...kinks. Trust the Momentary deity...:shifty: ;) Also this defination is very offensive. -To skanks, sure. Are you a skank? I'll admit, you didn't seem very skanky, John. ;) I can't say I've ever heard of Reggae or Ska having migrated to the Realms so... no. -What do you think Drow listen to in their dance clubs? I can't say it would ever occur to describe Moander that way. -The deity was a giant rotting mound of offal. If that doesn't qualify as a disgusting, filthy, rotting bastard, I don't know what does anymore! Nor do I see anything innately wrong with sexual promiscuity, so... no. -That anything is inherently wright or wrong about it doesn't matter. That's the definition. :: Shrug ::
Stigger 11-27-07, 03:38 AM	The word has distinctly negative connotations in modern parlance, and prejudices in its use, hence I wouldn't use it in relation to a good-aligned goddess. Beyond that, its just plain rude. Sure, the Moander thing might work, but its not a word I'd use there to describe him. I'm not sure there are that many words vile enough to really describe him actually...
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 03:52 AM	The word has distinctly negative connotations in modern parlance, and prejudices in its use, hence I wouldn't use it in relation to a good-aligned goddess. Beyond that, its just plain rude. -Negative connotations, in relation to our moral structures. In a moral system apart from the mainstream one, being "skanky" does not necessarily have negative implications- at least, the second half of the definition, anyway. But, regardless or not, that's the definition. I'm not sure there are that many words vile enough to really describe him actually... -Would ****, ******, *******, or ****ing **** ****** ****er work? :cool:
Stigger 11-27-07, 03:54 AM	Somehow I just don't see the word skank really being in the vernacular of Faerun... ;) And yes, they would.
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 03:58 AM	Somehow I just don't see the word skank really being in the vernacular of Faerun... ;) -Who knows... And yes, they would. -I had a feeling they might work.
Stigger 11-27-07, 04:01 AM	Well, I can't say for every facet of Faerun of course, but as far as my facet is concerned, that word will never exist in any form. ;)
Storm_Silverhand 11-27-07, 05:22 PM	Heya, Hmm. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/278025/2251098skankityskank.jpg So what do I win? :devil: Nothing, since she doesn't fit this part of that definition... Skank 3) One who is disgustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl. The key word there, as you can see is AND. While Tymora is rather amorous, the Forgotten Realms doesn't carry the same kinds of baggage our world does when it comes to sex and sexuality. I also think Tymora probably has nothing on Sune, and Sune herself probably has nothing on Sharess. (As you can probably tell, this has annoyed me to all ends, and leeched my sense of humor away... but then again, I don't find this kind of thing funny even when I'm in the best of moods... I guess (some) of you guys don't realize how misogynistic the attitude is towards women who are perceived to be promiscuous, given that guys are usually lauded for such behaviour (Elminster not withstanding, but I think that's jealousy talking. ;)).)
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 06:30 PM	-Disgustingly foul or filthy is a relative term.
Stigger 11-27-07, 06:58 PM	I guess (some) of you guys don't realize how misogynistic the attitude is towards women who are perceived to be promiscuous, given that guys are usually lauded for such behaviour (Elminster not withstanding, but I think that's jealousy talking. ;)).) Heh, I was thinking that Elminster part myself but didn't want to say it...
Fingoldfin 11-28-07, 12:17 PM	Check out what Rich posted on his thread. Torm will most likely be a hero/demigod with no clerics. He seems to imply that gods can only have clerics if they are lesser gods or greater gods. :uh-huh: :nonono: :allalone:
GothicDan 11-28-07, 02:11 PM	(As you can probably tell, this has annoyed me to all ends, and leeched my sense of humor away... but then again, I don't find this kind of thing funny even when I'm in the best of moods... I guess (some) of you guys don't realize how misogynistic the attitude is towards women who are perceived to be promiscuous, given that guys are usually lauded for such behaviour (Elminster not withstanding, but I think that's jealousy talking. ).) I think the first key to better communication and empathy is being able to have a sense of humor about anything. It's hard to offend someone unless they WANT to be offended. Of course, me and a few friends have been tossing around the idea of starting a "Racial Slur Day." We're probably a bit off. But we sure don't have weird prejudices and such, at least!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-28-07, 02:31 PM	Check out what Rich posted on his thread. Torm will most likely be a hero/demigod with no clerics. He seems to imply that gods can only have clerics if they are lesser gods or greater gods. :uh-huh: :nonono: :allalone: Yet another reason for me not to use the 4E Realms setting.
Lord Karsus 11-28-07, 04:37 PM	Check out what Rich posted on his thread. Torm will most likely be a hero/demigod with no clerics. He seems to imply that gods can only have clerics if they are lesser gods or greater gods. :uh-huh: :nonono: :allalone: -Where'd you see that?
Stigger 11-28-07, 04:40 PM	Ask The Designers thread has it on there.
GreenKnight 11-28-07, 08:30 PM	Nothing, since she doesn't fit this part of that definition... Would you rather I used a more appropriate and on the nose label term found in the dictionary? :P While Tymora is rather amorous, the Forgotten Realms doesn't carry the same kinds of baggage our world does when it comes to sex and sexuality. No kidding. It's like the Summer of Love in Faerun. I've always thought it was funny that they got rules for birth control, but no rules for STD's. Though if there were STD's in the Realms, half the populace would be dead by now, and the other half would feel a burning sensation every time they went to the bathroom. I also think Tymora probably has nothing on Sune, and Sune herself probably has nothing on Sharess. That doesn't really say much in favor of Tymora, if she's only beaten out by those two... :ahem: (As you can probably tell, this has annoyed me to all ends, and leeched my sense of humor away... but then again, I don't find this kind of thing funny even when I'm in the best of moods... It's not as if I insulted you, your friend, your sister, or your mother. I insulted a fictional character in passing. It was meant in good humor, so I don't really see what the problem is. Especially since I've been called far worse right to my face, and didn't get in a huff, as it was all in good humor. In short, lighten up. It's all in good fun. :) I guess (some) of you guys don't realize how misogynistic the attitude is towards women who are perceived to be promiscuous, given that guys are usually lauded for such behaviour Well, if it makes you feel any better, put up a discussion about a man***** in the Realms, and I'll insult him, too. I'm fairly equal opportunity in that regard. Hell, I'll even throw in insults about his parentage just to grease the wheels. :P (Elminster not withstanding, but I think that's jealousy talking. ;)).) Jealousy?!? The man's a greasy, grotesque weasel. And no, that's not jealousy, but rather abject disgust. The thought of his wrinkly self going places makes me want to gag. Damn it, now you got me picturing it in my head. Oh, God, I'm gonna vomit (http://prime.shwiggie.com/Funny_Pictures/puke.jpg)!!! :twitch:
Todesherr 11-28-07, 08:40 PM	People, back on topic please: save Torm or not?
Lord Karsus 11-29-07, 12:47 AM	Ask The Designers thread has it on there. -So...How are they going to explain...you know...all his preists and preistess'? And the fact that...you know...he used to be a minor deity (or whatever), and was elevated to the mantle of lesser deity (or whatever), by Ao? No kidding. It's like the Summer of Love in Faerun. I've always thought it was funny that they got rules for birth control, but no rules for STD's. Though if there were STD's in the Realms, half the populace would be dead by now, and the other half would feel a burning sensation every time they went to the bathroom. -Well, I wouldn't say that every single person in Faerūn is a horny SOB that does it with anything that moves. But, in all seriousness, a Cure Disease spell would eliminate an STD, or whatever, so all one really needs is a single potion, or a single casting. And, though not everyone can afford things like potions and whatnot, let's not forget that Clerics do exist in various places, and I don't think that most good-aligned churches would turn away someone in need of healing, no matter what their exact problem is.
Stigger 11-29-07, 01:46 AM	Erm... just the messenger there LK, I haven't the foggiest clue as to how they're going to handle that in an even vaguely plausible manner. As to Torm, I think Mr. Baker already said he was still around in 4e on the Ask the Designers thread, though I don't recall what his 'station' was.
johnkretzer 11-29-07, 01:49 AM	People, back on topic please: save Torm or not? Sure... I am a DEfender of the Realms :fight!: I am a Defender of Torm :fight!: I am a Defender of all the gods and goddesses of the Realms :fight!:
Lord Karsus 11-29-07, 01:57 AM	Erm... just the messenger there LK, I haven't the foggiest clue as to how they're going to handle that in an even vaguely plausible manner. -I wasn't asking you, specifically. It was more rhetorical, aimed at everyone.
Stigger 11-29-07, 02:19 AM	Well, I have a feeling you're not really going to get a better answer than the one I gave you, at least that isn't pure speculation. ;)
Fingoldfin 11-29-07, 02:47 AM	LK, Green Knight made a very good argument to Baker to keep Torm around as at least a Lesser god. He may not lose his churches and clergy. Rich also said that he thinks there should be 15-20 greater gods and 15-20 lesser gods. If this is true in 4e then that means dozens of gods who have established churches, clergy, knightly orders, monastic orders...etc will end up with no churches or clergy?!?:confused: :uh-huh: They can either completely ignore the missing churches and clergy in 4e or they can try to use the Spellplague to explain it somehow.:)
Sir_Shadow 11-29-07, 03:07 AM	Either that or all Torm's priests and followers will have quite a shock when they find out they've actually been praying to Tyr the whole time and he's been the one getting all the power from their faith. How can they logically explain any of it? Its not like people havent seen the gods up close in person during the ToT. You'd think they'd be able to tell the difference between a God and a Saint/Regional Hero. Especailly seeing as I don't recall it mentioning that AO kicked out all the saints from the planes but I do recall him kicking out all the Gods. Therefore anyone that you've been praying to that was walking around the Realms and killing Bane during the Time of Troubles is a god.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 12:57 PM	I think Rich said Torm is likely going to be a demigod, which, by the standards he delineated in the same post, would mean Torm would no longer have churches or clerics or worshippers (!).
Alediran 11-29-07, 04:31 PM	Richard loved GreenKnight's post about the rise of Torm and he sent what he wrote to the other designers for evaluation. It seems that Torm will replace Tyr if the designers like GreenKnight's story.
GreenKnight 11-29-07, 04:48 PM	We'll start the butt kissing with YOU, Todesherr! :evillaugh http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/264957/2252181buttkissing.jpg
johnkretzer 11-29-07, 05:00 PM	I am just afraid of what we are loosing in exchange.
18DELTA 11-29-07, 06:32 PM	:dancin: TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM TORM :dancin:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 07:25 PM	Richard loved GreenKnight's post about the rise of Torm and he sent what he wrote to the other designers for evaluation. It seems that Torm will replace Tyr if the designers like GreenKnight's story. I won't be using the 4E story elements, but in spite of that a part of me is delighted that Tyr will be "punished" after having killed Helm. I like Tyr and Helm, don't get me wrong, but I was really POed at both Helm's death and the way in which it was facilitated.
Suin Bahhar 11-29-07, 07:28 PM	I salute to GreenKnight. To a job well done! Praise Torm! And please... Now save Tymora!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 07:28 PM	Save Helm!
Lord Karsus 11-29-07, 08:12 PM	They can either completely ignore the missing churches and clergy in 4e or they can try to use the Spellplague to explain it somehow.:) -Well, we don't know much about the Spellplague right now, but I fail to see how it might decimate multiple religions. I mean, it's not like every single member of every single faith is some kind of spellcaster. Lay worshippers, I would think, could keep things together, to a degree. You see major problems of religions randomly "falling apart" in thew actual world? How can they logically explain any of it? Its not like people havent seen the gods up close in person during the ToT. You'd think they'd be able to tell the difference between a God and a Saint/Regional Hero. -Besides for having to rectify it in the actual Realms, to conform to continuity and whatever, you also have to convince "us"! -Save Karsus!
Dark Wizard 11-29-07, 09:27 PM	Save Helm! Quoted for Truth. I had few worries for Torm, but Helm is confirmed dead and gone. Despite often being portrayed as one of the more boring, straightforward gods, Helm had a good amount of complexity to him. The archetype he represents is not easily replaced. Raise Helm!
MarkusTay63 11-30-07, 04:46 AM	Torm must be stopped! Errr... sorry... my bad....
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 04:48 AM	-Try again.
Alediran 11-30-07, 09:47 AM	SAVE MYSTRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18DELTA 11-30-07, 10:19 AM	Torm must be stopped! Errr... sorry... my bad.... ;) :P :D
The_Shaman 12-02-07, 10:57 AM	SAVE MYSTRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seconded. Please join, everyone, we only have 34.211.118 more endorsements to go!