Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SATA 03-28-08, 02:18 AM	If a portfolio don't exist or is destroyed or is lost or is not currently held by a deity or whatever, the concept or object it represent cease to exist? I guess not, but I'm not 100% sure, so I decided to ask.
Stigger 03-28-08, 02:35 AM	Not as far as I'm aware... though that whole Cyric/Kelemvor thing does kinda throw an odd wrench into the works of how exactly that functions.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-28-08, 11:42 AM	If a portfolio don't exist or is destroyed or is lost or is not currently held by a deity or whatever, the concept or object it represent cease to exist? I doubt it.
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 12:56 AM	If a portfolio don't exist or is destroyed or is lost or is not currently held by a deity or whatever, the concept or object it represent cease to exist? -No. No Human deity has the 'Time' portfolio, and, as we all know (a little too well, sadly) time is still ticking in the Forgotten Realms.
Kiioro 03-29-08, 01:35 AM	It's more like a sponsorship. The people that have to do with PORTFOLIO are under the guidance / protection / watch of the god(dess) that manages said portfolio. Portfolios may cease to be and others may be created as times change, but that doesn't mean that the portfolio decrees the existence of an activity or race, it's a mutual relationship: thieves will need a god that watches over thieving, to reciprocate the example, a god that watches over thieving will need thieves, as s/he needs believers. That's the way I look at it.
SATA 03-29-08, 02:55 AM	I know, I just wasn't 100% sure about it. Actually I was, I just, I was hoping to be wrong 'cuz I have few ideas about some specific portfolios. Anyway, thanks all.
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 03:12 AM	-I have a long list of portfolios that are unclaimed in the Faerūnian Pantheon, if you want it.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-29-08, 03:13 AM	-I have a long list of portfolios that are unclaimed in the Faerūnian Pantheon, if you want it. I do!:D
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 03:18 AM	-Here you go. It's not 100% fully comprehensive, but me and a bunch of other people sure tried hard: Unclaimed Portfolio List Complied by: Lord Karsus -Abandonment -Abdication -Abjuration -Abjurers -Abstinence -Achievement -Acids -Activity -Addiction -Adulthood -Adults -Aerial Combat -Aggression -Aggressors -Aimlessness -Alchemy -Alcohol -Alienation -Alleviation -Alteration -Ambition -Amnesty -Ancestors -Anomalies -Antagonism -Antagonists -Antidotes -Anti-Paladins -Apathy -Apostasy -Arctic Creatures -Armistice -Artlessness -Assailment -Assassinations -Atrocity -Autumn -Avarice -Aversion -Awareness -Baking -Bandits -Banishment -Barter -Bases -Beggars -Beholders -Bitterness -Birds -Blackguards -Blindness -Bliss -Blood -Bureaucracies -Bureaucrats -Bugbears -Calmness -Canines -Captivity -Carelessness -Ceasefires -Celibacy -Chance -Charm -Chastity -Chauvinism -Civilization -Cleanliness -Cliffs -Clumsiness -Colors -Commoners -Comets -Comfort -Compassion -Confusion -Conjuration -Conjurers -Conservatism -Constraint -Contamination -Contempt -Contentment -Contraband -Convenience -Cooking -Cooperation -Corrosion -Corruption -Courage -Cowardice -Creation -Cruelty -Cures -Curses -Day -Daylight -Decadence -Decay -Defeat -Dejection -Delirium -Democracy -Demolition -Demolitionists -Denial -Dentistry -Depravity -Dereliction -Dependence -Derro -Desert Dwellers -Deserts -Desistance -Despair -Desperation -Desserts -Detachment -Diplomacy -Diplomats -Disgrace -Discouragement -Discrimination -Disloyalty -Disobedience -Disorder -Distance -Diviners -Divorces -Dogs -Domesticated Animals -Dreams -Dryness -Dusk -Dust -Elderly -Embalming -Encroachment -Engineering -Envy -Equatorial Environments -Erosion -Estrangement -Evasion -Evocation -Evokers -Evolution -Excess -Excrement -Exploration -Exploitation -Fear -Femininity -Fertility -Filth -Flexibility -Floods -Fog -Force -Forestry -Foresters -Forgiveness -Forgotten Lore -Free Will -Frost -Funerals -Fusion -Gain -Garbage -Generosity -Geography -Giants -Gifts -Gloominess -Glory -Gluttony -Goblin -Goblinoids -Good Behavior -Good Liches -Good Luck -Good Undead -Gravity -Guidance -Guides -Guilt -Gullibility -Half-Elves -Half-Orcs -Hair -Harmony -Healers -Healing -Health -Heat -Hoarders -Hoarding -Hobgoblin -Hollowness -Homosexuality -Honesty -Horses -Hubris -Hunger -Ignorance -Illiteracy -Illithid/Mind Flayers -Illusionists -Inability -Inactivity -Inarticulateness -Incompetence -Independence -Indifference -Indolence -Industrialists -Industry -Inertia -Ineptitude -Inequality -Inevitability -Inflexibility -Injustice -Immortality -Improper Burial -Impulsiveness -Indignation -Infancy -Infants -Insects -Intelligence -Intelligent Creatures -Intoxicants -Invocation -Invokers -Invulnerability -Invaders -Invasion -Isolation -Jungles -Jungle Creatures -Jungle Dwellers -Kobold -Killjoys -Kindness -Labor -Land -Land Combat -Land Dwellers -Language -Laughter -Law Enforcement -Law Enforcers -Laziness -Legacies -Leniency -Liberalism -Liberation -Libraries -Life -Life-giving -Light -Livestock -Living -Long-Distance Running -Loudness -Lust -Lythari Elves -Madness -Magical Artifice -Magnetism -Magnets -Malleability -Maritime Trade -Maritime Travel -Marriage -Masculinity -Mathematics -Maturity -Medicine -Mediocrity -Merchants -Mercy -Memory -Metamorphosis -Meteorites -Meteors -Milk -Misdirection -Misery -Mist -Moderation -Mountain Dwellers -Mountains -Mud -Mundane Items -Muscles -Music -Mute Humanoids -Neglect -Neutrality -Nightmares -Noise -Noisiness -Numbness -Obedience -Obsession -Ogres -Old Age -Openness -Opportunism -Oppression -Oral Tradition -Order -Orthodoxy -Pacts -Panic -Parodies -Paradox -Pariahs/Stigma -Pastries -Pestilence -Piracy -Pirates -Plagiarism -Plain Dwellers -Plains -Pleasure -Pollution -Potential -Poverty -Pragmatism -Preservation -Pride -Prisons -Privilege -Prodigies -Prophetic Fulfillment -Prose -Prosperity -Radiation -Rage -Rain -Readers -Reading -Reality -Recessions -Rediscovery -Reduction -Regression -Remembrance -Residents -Restoration -Revelations -Rivers -Rulers -Rules -Rulership -Rust -Sadness -Safety -Science -Scientists -Sea -Sea Dwellers -Seamanship -Secularism -Secularists -Segregation -Self-Deficiency -Self-Denial -Self-Fulfillment -Self-Loathing -Selfishness -Sexual Deviance -Sexuality -Sheep -Shortcomings -Silence -Slavery -Slaves -Sleep -Sloth -Smoke -Snow -Solace -Squander -Solitude -Spelljammers -Spelljamming -Sprinting -Stagnation -Stars -Sterility -Stillness -Stoicism -Subversion -Surface -Summoning -Sun -Surprise -Surrender -Swamp Dwellers -Swamps -Synthesis -Tamed Nature -Tears -Technology -Teeth -Temperance -Terror -Terrorism -Terrorists -Thirst -Thugs -Time -Timelessness -Tomb Raiders -Torrential Rain -Traditionalism -Tranquil Waters -Tranquil Weather -Transmuters -Transmutation -Treachery -Triplets -Trolls -Tropical Environments -Trust -Twins -Ugliness -Unchanging Art -Unfair Outcomes -Unjust Rule -Unskilled Labor -Urdennir -Vacuums -Valleys -Valor -Vanity -Vertigo -Voids -Volcanoes -Vice -Vulnerability -Wanderlust -Waste -Wasted Potential -Wastelands -Wasteland Creatures -Wasteland Dwellers -Weakness -Weather -Wood -Wolves -Wonder -Wild Animals -Wild Plants
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-29-08, 03:20 AM	-Here you go. It's not 100% fully comprehensive, but me and a bunch of other people sure tried hard: Unclaimed Portfolio List Complied by: Lord Karsus -Abandonment -Abdication -Abjuration -Abjurers -Abstinence -Achievement -Acids -Activity -Addiction -Adulthood -Adults -Aerial Combat -Aggression -Aggressors -Aimlessness -Alchemy -Alcohol -Alienation -Alleviation -Alteration -Ambition -Amnesty -Ancestors -Anomalies -Antagonism -Antagonists -Antidotes -Anti-Paladins -Apathy -Apostasy -Arctic Creatures -Armistice -Artlessness -Assailment -Assassinations -Atrocity -Autumn -Avarice -Aversion -Awareness -Baking -Bandits -Banishment -Barter -Bases -Beggars -Beholders -Bitterness -Birds -Blackguards -Blindness -Bliss -Blood -Bureaucracies -Bureaucrats -Bugbears -Calmness -Canines -Captivity -Carelessness -Ceasefires -Celibacy -Chance -Charm -Chastity -Chauvinism -Civilization -Cleanliness -Cliffs -Clumsiness -Colors -Commoners -Comets -Comfort -Compassion -Confusion -Conjuration -Conjurers -Conservatism -Constraint -Contamination -Contempt -Contentment -Contraband -Convenience -Cooking -Cooperation -Corrosion -Corruption -Courage -Cowardice -Creation -Cruelty -Cures -Curses -Day -Daylight -Decadence -Decay -Defeat -Dejection -Delirium -Democracy -Demolition -Demolitionists -Denial -Dentistry -Depravity -Dereliction -Dependence -Derro -Desert Dwellers -Deserts -Desistance -Despair -Desperation -Desserts -Detachment -Diplomacy -Diplomats -Disgrace -Discouragement -Discrimination -Disloyalty -Disobedience -Disorder -Distance -Diviners -Divorces -Dogs -Domesticated Animals -Dreams -Dryness -Dusk -Dust -Elderly -Embalming -Encroachment -Engineering -Envy -Equatorial Environments -Erosion -Estrangement -Evasion -Evocation -Evokers -Evolution -Excess -Excrement -Exploration -Exploitation -Fear -Femininity -Fertility -Filth -Flexibility -Floods -Fog -Force -Forestry -Foresters -Forgiveness -Forgotten Lore -Free Will -Frost -Funerals -Fusion -Gain -Garbage -Generosity -Geography -Giants -Gifts -Gloominess -Glory -Gluttony -Goblin -Goblinoids -Good Behavior -Good Liches -Good Luck -Good Undead -Gravity -Guidance -Guides -Guilt -Gullibility -Half-Elves -Half-Orcs -Hair -Harmony -Healers -Healing -Health -Heat -Hoarders -Hoarding -Hobgoblin -Hollowness -Homosexuality -Honesty -Horses -Hubris -Hunger -Ignorance -Illiteracy -Illithid/Mind Flayers -Illusionists -Inability -Inactivity -Inarticulateness -Incompetence -Independence -Indifference -Indolence -Industrialists -Industry -Inertia -Ineptitude -Inequality -Inevitability -Inflexibility -Injustice -Immortality -Improper Burial -Impulsiveness -Indignation -Infancy -Infants -Insects -Intelligence -Intelligent Creatures -Intoxicants -Invocation -Invokers -Invulnerability -Invaders -Invasion -Isolation -Jungles -Jungle Creatures -Jungle Dwellers -Kobold -Killjoys -Kindness -Labor -Land -Land Combat -Land Dwellers -Language -Laughter -Law Enforcement -Law Enforcers -Laziness -Legacies -Leniency -Liberalism -Liberation -Libraries -Life -Life-giving -Light -Livestock -Living -Long-Distance Running -Loudness -Lust -Lythari Elves -Madness -Magical Artifice -Magnetism -Magnets -Malleability -Maritime Trade -Maritime Travel -Marriage -Masculinity -Mathematics -Maturity -Medicine -Mediocrity -Merchants -Mercy -Memory -Metamorphosis -Meteorites -Meteors -Milk -Misdirection -Misery -Mist -Moderation -Mountain Dwellers -Mountains -Mud -Mundane Items -Muscles -Music -Mute Humanoids -Neglect -Neutrality -Nightmares -Noise -Noisiness -Numbness -Obedience -Obsession -Ogres -Old Age -Openness -Opportunism -Oppression -Oral Tradition -Order -Orthodoxy -Pacts -Panic -Parodies -Paradox -Pariahs/Stigma -Pastries -Pestilence -Piracy -Pirates -Plagiarism -Plain Dwellers -Plains -Pleasure -Pollution -Potential -Poverty -Pragmatism -Preservation -Pride -Prisons -Privilege -Prodigies -Prophetic Fulfillment -Prose -Prosperity -Radiation -Rage -Rain -Readers -Reading -Reality -Recessions -Rediscovery -Reduction -Regression -Remembrance -Residents -Restoration -Revelations -Rivers -Rulers -Rules -Rulership -Rust -Sadness -Safety -Science -Scientists -Sea -Sea Dwellers -Seamanship -Secularism -Secularists -Segregation -Self-Deficiency -Self-Denial -Self-Fulfillment -Self-Loathing -Selfishness -Sexual Deviance -Sexuality -Sheep -Shortcomings -Silence -Slavery -Slaves -Sleep -Sloth -Smoke -Snow -Solace -Squander -Solitude -Spelljammers -Spelljamming -Sprinting -Stagnation -Stars -Sterility -Stillness -Stoicism -Subversion -Surface -Summoning -Sun -Surprise -Surrender -Swamp Dwellers -Swamps -Synthesis -Tamed Nature -Tears -Technology -Teeth -Temperance -Terror -Terrorism -Terrorists -Thirst -Thugs -Time -Timelessness -Tomb Raiders -Torrential Rain -Traditionalism -Tranquil Waters -Tranquil Weather -Transmuters -Transmutation -Treachery -Triplets -Trolls -Tropical Environments -Trust -Twins -Ugliness -Unchanging Art -Unfair Outcomes -Unjust Rule -Unskilled Labor -Urdennir -Vacuums -Valleys -Valor -Vanity -Vertigo -Voids -Volcanoes -Vice -Vulnerability -Wanderlust -Waste -Wasted Potential -Wastelands -Wasteland Creatures -Wasteland Dwellers -Weakness -Weather -Wood -Wolves -Wonder -Wild Animals -Wild Plants :eek: I don't know what's more imprsive, the quantity of it or that I can match mos with current dieties/demon lords/arcdukes of hell. (as far as I see).Why not put Dogs with Domesticated animals altogether?
Stigger 03-29-08, 09:14 AM	Because not all dogs are domesticated? I'd say that most animals were handled by the Beast Lords (or something like that) from Planescape myself...
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 12:08 PM	Why not put Dogs with Domesticated animals altogether? -The same reason why 'glades', 'the ocean', and 'water' are all seperate portfolios, even though they represent inherently connected things. -And, as Stigger said, not all dogs are domesticated. I'd say that most animals were handled by the Beast Lords (or something like that) from Planescape myself... -Sounds like good reasoning. That said, I've never seen the portfolios of these Beast Lords, so...
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-29-08, 01:51 PM	Oh..yeah. well it was late and I wasn't thinking straight (that's my story and I'm sticking to it dammit! :P)
Stigger 03-29-08, 01:56 PM	Don't think they have portfolios per se... they're mentioned in one of the MM Appendices... can't recall which exactly which offhand. What I do recall was a particularly yummy drawing DiTerlizzi did for the Catlord however... :D
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 02:24 PM	Oh..yeah. well it was late and I wasn't thinking straight (that's my story and I'm sticking to it dammit! :P) -It works. Don't think they have portfolios per se... they're mentioned in one of the MM Appendices... can't recall which exactly which offhand. -Then that's why we can't elminate those portfolios from the list, then. -Oh, and if anyone has anything to add, by all means...
Stigger 03-29-08, 02:29 PM	Well, it did say that they were something of the deities of their respective species... so... kind of a gray area.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-29-08, 02:34 PM	-It works. -Then that's why we can't elminate those portfolios from the list, then. -Oh, and if anyone has anything to add, by all means... There was this guy in the "core" forums that wanted to make a god of TOILETS so...
Lord Karsus 03-29-08, 02:36 PM	There was this guy in the "core" forums that wanted to make a god of TOILETS so... -Toilets, as we know them, don't exist in the Forgotten Realms.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-29-08, 02:43 PM	just saying...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-29-08, 04:57 PM	-Toilets, as we know them, don't exist in the Forgotten Realms. What about a god of privies? :P
Stigger 03-29-08, 08:32 PM	I tend to think it would be more about privy makers, rather than the privy's themselves... which would probably head towards Gond as it could easily be justified as falling under artifice, craft, and/or construction. Toilets/privies wouldn't require a deity, as they certainly can't offer worship to merit one... and if they can... well, I prefer not to go into that. ;)
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 01:53 AM	What about a god of privies? :P -That would fall under the portfolio of Excrement. :)
Todesherr 03-30-08, 02:01 AM	Round 1, Paladin squats to take dump, round 2 nuts lopped off by gnoll's axe....;)
Khaelieth 03-30-08, 10:55 AM	You're missing Hangovers! The God of Hangovers is mighty, indeed! He's evil personified. And you had Adulthood and Adults... But not Adultery?=(
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 07:33 PM	You're missing Hangovers! The God of Hangovers is mighty, indeed! He's evil personified. And you had Adulthood and Adults... But not Adultery?=( -Both Adultery and Hangovers have been added.
Khaelieth 03-30-08, 07:36 PM	-Both Adultery and Hangovers have been added. Excellent! Who in the Realms do you reckon would try grabbing the Hangovers portfolio? He'd get one helluva lot of worshippers on Saturday and Sunday mornings!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 08:07 PM	-That would fall under the portfolio of Excrement. :) Ah, that makes sense. I'm glad that portfolio is in there!
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 08:10 PM	Who in the Realms do you reckon would try grabbing the Hangovers portfolio? He'd get one helluva lot of worshippers on Saturday and Sunday mornings! -Perhaps Ilmater, since one of saints is Dyonisius (Sp?), who likes wines and other spirits. That said, Saturdays and Sundays don't exist in the Realms. I'm glad that portfolio is in there! -And I'd wager that Talona might like it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 08:12 PM	-And I'd wager that Talona might like it. Ah, but excretion is necessary for any organism and keeps it healthy, as opposed to making it sick.:) I think ANY deity would want that!
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 08:27 PM	Ah, but excretion is necessary for any organism and keeps it healthy, as opposed to making it sick.:) -Yes, but excretion does spread disease, which is Talona's speciality.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 03-31-08, 01:04 PM	Can't belive we talking bout **** :nonono:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-31-08, 01:20 PM	I was thinking. If excretion is in there, what about secretion? That's an important bodily function, too.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-31-08, 01:45 PM	And speaking of secretion, how come there is a portfolio for blood, but none for other bodily fluids such as sebum? Sebum is important, too.:)
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 07:42 PM	Can't belive we talking bout **** :nonono: -I can. ;) And speaking of secretion, how come there is a portfolio for blood, but none for other bodily fluids such as sebum? Sebum is important, too.:) -I hate sebaceous glands...That said, I shall add all of that.
SATA 03-31-08, 10:04 PM	...back to the topic. It's a kind of "Twilight Zone" type of day for me so bear with me 'cuz my analytic skills took a vacation today... ...so, what was the cause behind The Spellplague? resume, among others, the destruction of Mystra, meaning, the Weave, which is a portfolio in 3e. Raw magic exist so The Realms still have magic, but a major disaster happened so I guess the destruction of a portfolio have some consequences after all. I was going for something bigger with that but now I can't quite get a grip to the trail of thought behind it. ...the train leave without me. Anyway, To Be Continue.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 02:31 AM	...so, what was the cause behind The Spellplague? -Don't worry, it's not your analytic skills; it's them. The Spellplague is just a giant continuity mess. The reason for it happening was simply the death of Mystra, and the destruction of the Weave. Of course, the last time the Weave was destroyed under normal circumstances (had something to do with me, I don't know...), the continent/planet/Crystal Sphere was plunged into a massive Dead Magic Zone. The same should have happened this time.
SATA 04-01-08, 11:16 AM	It's a complete mess, I know. It's their plot device to advance and excuse themselves for the choices they have made. That's why I dislike an unspecified concept/subject/theme... ...Anyway, my point is, you well point out the consequences of Karsus's Folly, so like I said, a destruction or disturbances on a portfolio, may well have certain consequences in The Realms, maybe not always the same effect... but at least something. So, I guess the portfolios do have a connection with the concept/being/subject/element and so on, it represents and the destruction of said portfolio may bring some disgrace to it. But since the lack of proof, I guess it will remain a matter of each own deliberation, so... How would all of you manage it?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-01-08, 12:38 PM	-I hate sebaceous glands...That said, I shall add all of that. Don't knock those glands! Imagine what would happen if they weren't there.:( I'm so happy you are adding those portfolios!:D
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 03:55 PM	...Anyway, my point is, you well point out the consequences of Karsus's Folly, so like I said, a destruction or disturbances on a portfolio, may well have certain consequences in The Realms, maybe not always the same effect... but at least something. -Why wouldn't there be the same effect? In situation 1, Mystra dies. In situation 2, Mystra dies. Why should there be different results? Don't knock those glands! Imagine what would happen if they weren't there.:( -We'd all be less oily, and not have to deal with any of the problems that stem from that. Of course, technically, we'd all be brittle, and break apart like a piece of wood or something.
SATA 04-01-08, 05:08 PM	-Why wouldn't there be the same effect? In situation 1, Mystra dies. In situation 2, Mystra dies. Why should there be different results? It should but they don't see it that way apparently so, at least what remains a constant was that in both occasions there were repercussions. That was what I wanted to point out. ...Anyway, my point is, you well point out the consequences of Karsus's Folly, so like I said, a destruction or disturbances on a portfolio, may well have certain consequences in The Realms, maybe not always the same effect... but at least something.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 05:14 PM	It should but... -As long as you see there's no real reason for two very different effects...
SATA 04-01-08, 05:25 PM	It's a complete mess, I know. It's their plot device to advance and excuse themselves for the choices they have made. That's why I dislike an unspecified concept/subject/theme... ...Anyway, my point is, you well point out the consequences of Karsus's Folly, so like I said, a destruction or disturbances on a portfolio, may well have certain consequences in The Realms, maybe not always the same effect... but at least something. So, I guess the portfolios do have a connection with the concept/being/subject/element and so on, it represents and the destruction of said portfolio may bring some disgrace to it. But since the lack of proof, I guess it will remain a matter of each own deliberation, so... How would all of you manage it? I cover all of that above, without the need of having a page to explain myself. I thought I was pretty clear, I guess my bad. ...finito.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-01-08, 06:55 PM	-We'd all be less oily, and not have to deal with any of the problems that stem from that. Of course, technically, we'd all be brittle, and break apart like a piece of wood or something. That's right, and our skin would be less waterproof, too. :)
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 11:48 PM	I cover all of that above, without the need of having a page to explain myself. I thought I was pretty clear, I guess my bad. ...finito. -Ah, I don't think so. That's right, and our skin would be less waterproof, too. :) -We'd be like sponges. Smelly sponges.
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 03:30 PM	-Why wouldn't there be the same effect? In situation 1, Mystra dies. In situation 2, Mystra dies. Why should there be different results?... Just to look scientifically at the problem: 1. Mystra's death because of Karsus's Folly was a result of a mortal trying to absorb her power - Mystra's recent death is the result of divine affairs. 2. Magic was different at the time of Karsus's Folly. Now it is restricted to level 9 spells (not counting epic, but epic isn't level 10). So this might be the reason. 3. The two events are separated by some thousands of years. It is entirely possible that the Weave changed over those years slowly. Just like the weather does in RL. 4. It could be a(ny) combination of the above.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 03:43 PM	1. Mystra's death because of Karsus's Folly was a result of a mortal trying to absorb her power - Mystra's recent death is the result of divine affairs. -Wrong. Mystryl's death was because she decided to kill herself. The involvement of Karsus was a catalyst, but did not ultimatley kill Mystryl. That said, the result is the same: Mystryl/Mystra was destoyed by a divine entity.
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 04:04 PM	-Wrong. Mystryl's death was because she decided to kill herself. The involvement of Karsus was a catalyst, but did not ultimatley kill Mystryl. That said, the result is the same: Mystryl/Mystra was destoyed by a divine entity. So it's suicide vs. murder then. That's a sufficient difference I would say. Don't get me wrong we could assume all kinds of things. We just don't know for sure what is supposed to happen in different situations. There is no 'Complete Deicide' book which would clarify things (and it's probably better this way).
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 04:07 PM	So it's suicide vs. murder then. That's a sufficient difference I would say. -Why? In the end, the same result comes about: Mystryl/Mystra is dead, and the hands of a divine entity. Is being shooting yourself, and dying, all that different from someone else killing you, in terms of what happens to your body?
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 04:13 PM	-Why? In the end, the same result comes about: Mystryl/Mystra is dead, and the hands of a divine entity. Is being shooting yourself, and dying, all that different from someone else killing you, in terms of what happens to your body? No, but I am not a god of magic either. We just don't know for sure what is supposed to happen and whether it makes a difference for gods. The fact that something went in one direction in the past doesn't mean that it will in the future as well, especially if the circumstances are different.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 04:15 PM	The fact that something went in one direction in the past doesn't mean that it will in the future as well, especially if the circumstances are different. -That defies the laws of logic. If X happens one time, when Y happens, X is supposed to happen again, when Y happens again. Mystryl died, and the Weave unraveled. This caused a massive dead magic zone until she reformed. Mystra died, and the Weave unraveled...
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 04:21 PM	-If X happens one time, when Y happens, X is supposed to happen again, when Y happens again. You're right. The problem is that we have to different cases of X here. I would be more on your side if they would have said that a powerful wizard created an epic spell to absorb Mystra's power and failed just like Karsus did. That would be a closer scenario and we could say "Hey, why is it different this time?". And even then my other points (different magic, possible changes to the weave) would still apply.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 04:35 PM	You're right. The problem is that we have to different cases of X here. I would be more on your side if they would have said that a powerful wizard created an epic spell to absorb Mystra's power and failed just like Karsus did. That would be a closer scenario and we could say "Hey, why is it different this time?". And even then my other points (different magic, possible changes to the weave) would still apply. -No, we don't have an X, and a Z, with X being one thing, and Z another. X represents the deity of magic dying. In both the past and in the near future, the deity of magic is dying. Two X scenarios.
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 04:49 PM	-No, we don't have an X, and a Z, with X being one thing, and Z another. X represents the deity of magic dying. In both the past and in the near future, the deity of magic is dying. Two X scenarios. You obviously don't want to see my point that we don't have the exact same scenario. I think it is up to everyone individually to decide whether X = Mystryl killing herself a few thousands of years ago, when a different set of natural laws regarding magic was in place is the exact same thing as Z = Mystra being assassinated by another god in the present time with another set of rules regarding magic. I made my point more then clear. So I'm outta here.
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 04:54 PM	-The death of the deity of magic results in X. The circumstances that perpetuate that do not matter. If you are fatally stabbed in the heart by a crazy person on the street, shot in the head by a jealous lover, or drown in a fishing accident, the result is the same. You die. Assuming, using the generic Christian viewpoint, that you are then judged, and are sent to a specific place in the afterlife, the way you die doesn't alter the fact that you make that trip to the judge.
Stigger 04-03-08, 07:04 AM	I think a different analogy is in order... I think Lum's point was that there's a difference between a power line going down and a power plant blowing up... the effect is the same to the consumer in loss of electricity, but the problems are worlds apart at their root and very different in the scale of their solutions.
Eli_the_Tanner 04-04-08, 11:24 AM	I was under the impression that Mystra was the Weave not magic itself, so her death would have no bearing on the existance or not of magic but rather mortals abilities to interact with it. So continuity on that front doesn't seem too bad....not to say there aren't some glaring inconsistencies about Mysta's (various) deaths. :whatsthis Also my Lord Karsus you seem to have missed out Rot from you unclaimed portfolio list, unless Finder has let someone claim it without my knowledge.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-04-08, 12:31 PM	You obviously don't want to see my point that we don't have the exact same scenario. Work on your "people skills."
LumTheMad 04-04-08, 01:40 PM	Work on your "people skills." Yeah, that's exactly the kind of remark I would expect from someone who has the mentioned skills.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-04-08, 06:43 PM	Yeah, that's exactly the kind of remark I would expect from someone who has the mentioned skills. :P
LumTheMad 04-05-08, 07:44 AM	:P :D I like your style. :thumbsup:
Lord Karsus 04-05-08, 11:59 PM	I was under the impression that Mystra was the Weave not magic itself, so her death would have no bearing on the existance or not of magic but rather mortals abilities to interact with it. -The Weave exists because mortals cannot utilize "pure", "raw" magic. The closest there is is Spellfire, which is only a manifestation of Raw Magic. And, they "burn" themselves out rather quickly, Spellfire users. That is why the Weave exists in the first place- to allow mortals to touch magic without excessive risks. -That said, in effect, magic ceases to exist. What good is it is a mortal cannot touch/manipulate it. :whatsthis Also my Lord Karsus you seem to have missed out Rot from you unclaimed portfolio list, unless Finder has let someone claim it without my knowledge. -Rot is a funny case. Finder Wyvernsput altered the 'Rot' portfolio into his 'Crusade against the Stagnation of Music'. Was the 'Rot' portfolio simply given a new name, was in inherently altered, or did Finder Wyvernsput simply get a new portfolio, leave 'Rot' for grabs. There isn't a concrete answer.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 04-07-08, 11:17 AM	What about famine? Curiosity? exciment?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-07-08, 01:43 PM	:D I like your style. :thumbsup: Thanks.:D
Lord Karsus 04-07-08, 02:40 PM	What about famine? Curiosity? exciment? -Famine, I think is Talona's. The others, I honestly don't know. I'm not home, but I can check when I do get home.
Stigger 04-07-08, 03:59 PM	Famine isn't taken specifically that I recall, though Talona seems a decent fit by extension of her other portfolios.
Lord Karsus 04-07-08, 04:48 PM	-Well, like I said, when I get home, I'll look.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 04-08-08, 10:56 AM	Hmm... Who represent best Curiosity? Oghma or Mask?
Stigger 04-08-08, 11:58 AM	Neither I don't think... Hin deity strikes me as more appropriate for Curiosity... barring that, I'd tend towards Tymora for some reason.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 04-08-08, 12:11 PM	What made me think of it as a porfolio was a DC commicbook character called "The Question" and I see him worshipping Tymora if he live in FR so I feel you on that one...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-08-08, 12:16 PM	Hmm... Who represent best Curiosity? Oghma or Mask? Oghma, IMO. But you could justify other gods holding that portfolio.
Soltares 04-16-08, 03:32 PM	Is there a god(dess) of beer, wine or brewing in general? In Egypt, Set was considered the god of beer (and other stuff, like foreigners and redheads), and in Greyhawk there's a goddess called 'the Alewife,' Wenta, known for her drunken festivals and 30 proof 'holy water.' Seems like a natural place for Finder to go, with the logical progression between rotting vegetation and drunken bards... That list is amazing. The Realms seriously could use *more* gods! No god of music? No god of the sun or the stars? No god of time? No god of prophecy or oracles? No god of wild animals / plants? No work or life or light or medicine or children? Man, there are a lot of portfolios just lying around!
Stigger 04-16-08, 04:17 PM	Chauntea would be the closest thing I can think of to Brewing and such, as well as Life.. Nothing more specific than that which I'm aware of. Think Milil is generally acknowledged as the Patron of Song, so Music would seem a good fit. Lathander is usually associated with the Sun (and Light), although not the actual portfolio, though I seem to recall that Amuanator held it. I might be hallucinating, but Selune held stars, didn't she? Or maybe she was just heavily associated with them (and possibly Children as well, though that's very unsure on my part), not sure. Silvanus and Mielikki would be good fits for animals and plants. Savras should be a good fit for prophecy and oracles with the whole divination thing. Time was Labolas (not sure if you're counting the Seldarine) I think, although Mystra used to hold it pre-Karsus if I recall correctly. Depending on the type of work, Gond might be a good patron for the 'work' portfolio. Medicine I usually associate with Ilmatar for some reason. Mind you, most of this is simply an association and not the holding of an actual portfolio. Really a DMs call as to whether that's close enough.
Lord Karsus 04-16-08, 04:38 PM	Time was Labolas (not sure if you're counting the Seldarine) I think, although Mystra used to hold it pre-Karsus if I recall correctly. -Mystryl held the 'Time' portfolio in the Netherese Pantheon, yes. She held it at the same time that Labelas Enoreth did in the Seldarine. Since they're from different pantheons, they aren't intruding on each others' turf.
Stigger 04-16-08, 07:13 PM	No, don't think there's a problem with any overlap so long as its in a different pantheon or if one is only a demipower (or something like that), but there was something of a flap with Amuanator wanting it and vaguely claiming it, although I seem to recall him coming up on the losing end of that one.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-16-08, 08:49 PM	I'm pretty sure Milil is the god of music?
Stigger 04-17-08, 04:05 AM	Poetry, Song, and Eloquence, but not music specifically. I'd include it under Song myself, but you know how semantical we can get around these boards. :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-17-08, 11:49 AM	OK, thanks for the clarification.:)
Khaelieth 04-18-08, 02:44 PM	Is there a god(dess) of beer, wine or brewing in general? In Egypt, Set was considered the god of beer (and other stuff, like foreigners and redheads), and in Greyhawk there's a goddess called 'the Alewife,' Wenta, known for her drunken festivals and 30 proof 'holy water.' Seems like a natural place for Finder to go, with the logical progression between rotting vegetation and drunken bards... Think Sharess would be a good wine godess. Festhalls and all that. Chauntea, barring that, or perhaps even Uthgar. LK, add "Drunken revelry" as a portfolio!
Lord Karsus 04-18-08, 02:51 PM	LK, add "Drunken revelry" as a portfolio! -Drunken Revelry...? No, I don't think that's on the list...Awesome.