Psionics > than both Arcane and Divine and here is why. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psionics > than both Arcane and Divine and here is why. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 06:18 PM Dear all,

I have come to conclusion that Psionics are new and better form of "Magic". I realise that this view is bit controversial so please let me explain and provide reasons why.

To understand this view we have to first take a look at the case of ioulaum. He is the best and most powerful Arcanist ever (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot).

So:

1. Divine (Clerics and so forth.) rely on power given and granted them by Divine Powers or whatever you want to call them. Divine "casters" rely on powersource of outside origin. If this powersource is taken away or not granted to them anymore they lose all power they had at that very second. They can no longer do anything. Divine COMPLETELY RELY ON 3rd PARTY TO GIVE OR NOT GIVE THEM POWER.

2. Arcanists/Mages/Wizards or whatever you want to call them, rely on power given to them or rather acess outside power source (the weave). Some of them are granted more acess than others like Larloch is. If this powersource goes boom or if their access to this powersource is denied all their power they have is gone. They can no longer do anything. WIZARDS/ARCANE COMPELTELY RELY ON 3rd PARTY TO GIVE/GRANT OR DENY THEM POWER.

3. Unlike magic, call it divine or arcane, psionics stems from the mind and body, rather than external sources. Please read that again. Psionics is the ability to harness, shape, and control natural forces through the power of the mind. The power source for psionics is Psion himself. Power is not taken or granted or anything remotely like that.

4. As we all know there is no better weapon than the mind (human brain in real life but in D&D lets just use term mind as in D&D there are other "races" on par with humans.) Psionics are all about the mind.

Ioulaum realised that what he has is borrowed power that can be taken away just like that from him any second wether he likes it or not. He also something better and new... Psionics!

Psionics is VERY flavorful concept and frankly said is great for the realms. A new type of powersource compeltely independent from any of the so called gods or other major powers. It is a power source these "gods" and other uber beings can not just grant or take away just like that.

Ioulaum realised that and is now after NEW power that can not be taken away from him. A new power that has potential to surpass the existing divine and arcane or at least to be on par. When you have one of the best Arcanists ever give up arcane magic in order to study and rely on this new power you know there is something special to it.

Thanks for taking time to read this,

Liquid_Technique
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 07:08 PM http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=990742

"Unlike spells, which derive their power from Faerūn's Weave (or the Shadow Weave), psionic ability taps only the inner reservoirs of the manifester. In a sense, each psionic creature is its own Weave, using the magic of its own lifeforce and mind to create psionic effects. Mystra and Shar have no ability to deny psionic creatures access to powers, and they do not control the promulgation of psionic lore and ability throughout the populace of Faerūn."

So both Arcane and Divine can lose it all just like that while Psions can not.
Red_Wizard
02-13-08, 09:06 AM Psionics suffer all the same restrictions as Arcane and Divine magic. They can be Dispelled, Countered, and Suppressed in an Antimagic Field.

The only thing that by canon is not in the Realms are dead Psionic zones. That said, the designers have stated that it is entirely likely such things exist, as at the end of the Time of Troubles, when magic had restored itself, Psionics went on the fritz.

-RW
The_Shaman
02-13-08, 04:10 PM ...

When you have one of the best Arcanists ever give up arcane magic in order to study and rely on this new power you know there is something special to it.

Thanks for taking time to read this,

Liquid_Technique

And you were going so well until then... Overall you make some good points, really. However, you make a big thing out of an incorrect example. I'm sorry, but Ioulaum has not, in any way, given up on arcane magic. He has taken on a form with insanely powerful psionic abilities, yes, and he probably has had more than a little interest in the Invisible Art; so much I can give you. However, he is pursuing arcane magic secrets with no less vigor; in fact one of the few things that can motivate him to do anything for a current practitioner is being given epic spells. Not powers; spells. Neither has he spent any effort (in either feats or levels) to build up on his "innate" psionic abilities from then on.

Certainly, psionics is less dependent on the weave or on any deities; this makes it more reliable at present. However, that doesn't mean there aren't psionic-only problems that the practitioners are simply unaware of... for now. Two years ago pretty much no one here could imagine the Weave going bye-bye on us, either - so just because so far we don't know of anything like that being possible for the psionic characters doesn't mean they can't have a catastrophe of their own some day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 06:18 PM	Dear all, I have come to conclusion that Psionics are new and better form of "Magic". I realise that this view is bit controversial so please let me explain and provide reasons why. To understand this view we have to first take a look at the case of ioulaum. He is the best and most powerful Arcanist ever (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot). So: 1. Divine (Clerics and so forth.) rely on power given and granted them by Divine Powers or whatever you want to call them. Divine "casters" rely on powersource of outside origin. If this powersource is taken away or not granted to them anymore they lose all power they had at that very second. They can no longer do anything. Divine COMPLETELY RELY ON 3rd PARTY TO GIVE OR NOT GIVE THEM POWER. 2. Arcanists/Mages/Wizards or whatever you want to call them, rely on power given to them or rather acess outside power source (the weave). Some of them are granted more acess than others like Larloch is. If this powersource goes boom or if their access to this powersource is denied all their power they have is gone. They can no longer do anything. WIZARDS/ARCANE COMPELTELY RELY ON 3rd PARTY TO GIVE/GRANT OR DENY THEM POWER. 3. Unlike magic, call it divine or arcane, psionics stems from the mind and body, rather than external sources. Please read that again. Psionics is the ability to harness, shape, and control natural forces through the power of the mind. The power source for psionics is Psion himself. Power is not taken or granted or anything remotely like that. 4. As we all know there is no better weapon than the mind (human brain in real life but in D&D lets just use term mind as in D&D there are other "races" on par with humans.) Psionics are all about the mind. Ioulaum realised that what he has is borrowed power that can be taken away just like that from him any second wether he likes it or not. He also something better and new... Psionics! Psionics is VERY flavorful concept and frankly said is great for the realms. A new type of powersource compeltely independent from any of the so called gods or other major powers. It is a power source these "gods" and other uber beings can not just grant or take away just like that. Ioulaum realised that and is now after NEW power that can not be taken away from him. A new power that has potential to surpass the existing divine and arcane or at least to be on par. When you have one of the best Arcanists ever give up arcane magic in order to study and rely on this new power you know there is something special to it. Thanks for taking time to read this, Liquid_Technique
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 07:08 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=990742 "Unlike spells, which derive their power from Faerūn's Weave (or the Shadow Weave), psionic ability taps only the inner reservoirs of the manifester. In a sense, each psionic creature is its own Weave, using the magic of its own lifeforce and mind to create psionic effects. Mystra and Shar have no ability to deny psionic creatures access to powers, and they do not control the promulgation of psionic lore and ability throughout the populace of Faerūn." So both Arcane and Divine can lose it all just like that while Psions can not.
Red_Wizard 02-13-08, 09:06 AM	Psionics suffer all the same restrictions as Arcane and Divine magic. They can be Dispelled, Countered, and Suppressed in an Antimagic Field. The only thing that by canon is not in the Realms are dead Psionic zones. That said, the designers have stated that it is entirely likely such things exist, as at the end of the Time of Troubles, when magic had restored itself, Psionics went on the fritz. -RW
The_Shaman 02-13-08, 04:10 PM	... When you have one of the best Arcanists ever give up arcane magic in order to study and rely on this new power you know there is something special to it. Thanks for taking time to read this, Liquid_Technique And you were going so well until then... Overall you make some good points, really. However, you make a big thing out of an incorrect example. I'm sorry, but Ioulaum has not, in any way, given up on arcane magic. He has taken on a form with insanely powerful psionic abilities, yes, and he probably has had more than a little interest in the Invisible Art; so much I can give you. However, he is pursuing arcane magic secrets with no less vigor; in fact one of the few things that can motivate him to do anything for a current practitioner is being given epic spells. Not powers; spells. Neither has he spent any effort (in either feats or levels) to build up on his "innate" psionic abilities from then on. Certainly, psionics is less dependent on the weave or on any deities; this makes it more reliable at present. However, that doesn't mean there aren't psionic-only problems that the practitioners are simply unaware of... for now. Two years ago pretty much no one here could imagine the Weave going bye-bye on us, either - so just because so far we don't know of anything like that being possible for the psionic characters doesn't mean they can't have a catastrophe of their own some day.