Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sillaric_culdanin 07-19-07, 10:27 PM	Alright, this will sound a bit extreme but I've recently begun an experiment in an online Realms game. What I've done is eliminate all of the extraneous deities in the Realms, leaving a single non-unified pantheon that is not specifically tied to any race. I am aware of the similarity to Eberron's religious system and I would be lieing if I said it didn't influence my decision a bit. Basically almost all of the 'racial pantheons' don't exist. The non-human races have patron deities in the core gods of the Realms. For example the elves hold Mystra in the highest regard, followed closely by Selune, Sune and Milil as well as many of the good/neutral nature deities. A few of the racial deities that fill niches unfilled by 'human' deities stick around in one form or another. Corellan still exists but a demi-power that is patron of those that meld magic with swordplay (mostly patron of bladesingers, duskblades, eldritch knights and spellblades) much as Gwaerun Windstrom serves as patron to rangers and trackers. Corellan of course becomes a core deity in the service of Mystra. Other gods that would likely still exist would be Baravar, who would serve as a lesser deity and patron of illusion magic (much like Savras and Velsharoon) and also be a good patron for good-aligned rogues. All of that said, what I'm looking for is ideas on how to handle the non-core human deities (the Mulhorandi, etc), which (if any) of the other racial deities would still exist and what core gods would find large worship in the non-human races. Here are my thoughts (which aren't set in stone) - Dwarves: Tyr, Helm, Gond, Tempus, ? Gnomes: Baravar, Gond, ? Halflings: Chauntea, Shadukaul (sp?), Baravar/Mask Elves: Mystra, Selune, Sune, Selune Hobgoblins: Bane!!!!! Orcs: Garagos, Tempus, Cyric, ? Goblins: Cyric Drow: Shar, Cyric, Mask, Ellistrae (she is Shar's daughter now, but now in service to Selune and Mystra) If memory serves Gond is the patron of artifice and invention rather than actual of craft or smithwork. Should I keep Moradin as a lesser god that's patron of hard labor, smithcraft and such? He'd make a great rival for Gond, with Moradin as the traditionalist always being challenged by the brilliant young inventor, Gond. All thoughts welcome, with the caveat that I didn't post this to be criticized for wrecking my Realms. This is my experiment and I'm really looking for input.
Dark Wizard 07-19-07, 10:36 PM	First thought that came to mind, you're missing Tymora (luck/fortune and adventurers). She would probably hold some weight with the Halflings and Gnomes as well as many humans and probably a decent following in other races. You might be able to combine her and Waukeen (trade, merchants, and commerce) to get a trading, fortune, gambling, business venturing and adventuring (let's face it, adventuring is a profitable service industry) goddess. With the whole money aspect, you might be able to work in a minor dwarf angle (wealth, gold, gems). Additional thought, I would give Corellon a larger role. Going with your idea, he could still be an ally of Mystra, but he should still hold patronage of High Magic, Elves in general, and perhaps one of the schools of magic, perhaps Enchantment since elves have that fey vibe about them. This would reinforce his position and importance amongst the pantheon and mirror closer to his official status. I suggest that each demihuman race get to keep one of their main gods as a patron with greater god status in the new combined pantheon and perhaps a few interesting racial pantheon gods as demigods in service to them or other deities. Sort of like how Greyhawk handles it, this way there is more of a focusing figure for each racial sub-pantheon.
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 09:23 PM	-And...What's the point of all of this?
sillaric_culdanin 07-22-07, 11:11 PM	Basically to simplify things. The campaign I'm running here will focus on two themes, the Mystra/Shar struggle and the Elven Return to the continent. I have found it to be useful as a DM to bring these things together in a sense. Really it was about the elves and tieing them to Mystra... I was re-godding the other races for the sake of completeness. Now, were you asking to clarify so you could add something productive, or just being snide?
Todenfeuer 07-23-07, 01:19 AM	, the Mystra/Shar struggle and the Elven Return to the continent. I thought it was mainly a Shar/Selüne struggle, then all about the shadowweave secondly. Thirdly the Shar/Sharess thing... instead of rearranging you could maybe downplay the role of other gods. Like the ones you list are by far the most common, and the other "normal" gods in the "normal" pantheon are obscure gods worshipped in cults,in ancient times, or in exotic places. my 2 cents.
Lord Karsus 07-23-07, 09:49 AM	Now, were you asking to clarify so you could add something productive, or just being snide? -Being snide. I find what you are doing quite asinine.
Renvale999 07-23-07, 09:58 AM	-Being snide. I find what you are doing quite asinine. Be nice LK :P
Lord Karsus 07-23-07, 10:02 AM	-I am, don't you worry.
daimyotx 07-23-07, 10:25 AM	I almost have to agree with LK in the sense that: How is it still the Forgotten Realms after someone makes vast non-canon changes to the game? There's a point at which you have to ask yourself some questions: 1) are you using FR as a base and then completely changing it around for your own ease because you either don't have time or are too lazy to create your own campaign? 2)How are you going to reconcile the changes you make to a brand known world-wide when your players make assumptions based on canon realmslore? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with using an existing campaign setting as a jumping off point for creating your own world when you don't have the time (it's sometimes hard to DM & work a 40hr job). You just need to realize that there will be lots of people on these boards who won't look kindly upon sweeping changes like that. This is, when it's all said and done, a board for fans of Forgotten Realms to discuss the current setting as it stands and their game ideas. Some people won't see what you've created as Forgotten Realms anymore. I wouldn't.
Soltares 07-23-07, 01:03 PM	I almost have to agree with LK in the sense that: How is it still the Forgotten Realms after someone makes vast non-canon changes to the game? Yeah, that's how I felt after the Avatar Trilogy, too. :/ I'm partial to smaller pantheons as well, with dieties having different aspects for different needs (which was done well in Dragonlance, and also the Scarred Lands setting, as well as Eberron). But the Realms is too heavily tied up in the disparate pantheons. The racial ones could be easily kacked off and replaced with 'core' Realms dieties, since most of them are already replicated with core Realms dieties anyway, but the Realms also assumes a seperate set of dieties for people from not-Egypt (Mulhurand), another set of dieties for people from not-Asia (Kara-Tur), another set of dieties for people from not-the-Americas (Maztica), a couple dieties for not-Africans (Chult), and yet another set of dieties for people from not-Arabia (Zakhara). It's a pretty vast undertaking, and each new book seems to present more dieties, not just for Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings, but also for Dragons, Mind Flayers, Beholders, Giants, etc. Even the freakin' Mongrelfolk have their own diety, and their claim to fame is being outcasts! Fear me, I am Shialla, patron goddess of some hairy dancing fey race that nobody has ever heard of, and might not even exist in 3e!
Faraer 07-23-07, 02:21 PM	Basically to simplify things.There's nothing wrong in principle with tweaking the pantheons to your own needs, but in this case you seem to be needlessly complicating things, not simplifying them. Why not just emphasize the deities and themes you want to and ignore the ones you see as extraneous (something which depends on the needs of your campaign, which only you really know about)? As for the Mulhorandi, Untheric and Chultan pantheons, just ignore them, unless you're playing in Mulhorand, Unther or Chult.Corellan still exists but a demi-power that is patron of those that meld magic with swordplay (mostly patron of bladesingers, duskblades, eldritch knights and spellblades)Most elven fighter/mages, as it happens, aren't any of those things.
GothicDan 07-23-07, 07:00 PM	Especially not the latter three. (In regards to Faraer's last comment.) If something requires you to actually make a post on a forum to receive aid/inspiration from many people regarding a change, is it really SIMPLIFYING things? Me, I prefer to add deities. ;)
sillaric_culdanin 07-23-07, 07:03 PM	EDIT: The people I was railing at aren't worth the time and I debased myself by answering trolling comments. EDIT: BTW, Faraer and Dan, I was aware of that. I used the names for the purpose of demonstration. In the world I envision only those that truly combine magic with melee, be they elves, dwarves or humans would emulate Corellan but thanks for your input.
GothicDan 07-23-07, 07:13 PM	No one owns the Realms besides WotC and to a somewhat lesser extent Ed Greenwood. We all have free reign, however, to talk upon it as we wish, provided we do not break the CoC. I am not against altering the core pantheon so much as I am against the idea of such huge changes being done without people properly thinking out the results. I can't imagine a single person (including Old Sage or Faraer) who would truly be able to project such changes into the past and future properly. Corellon as a demipower? Well, that certainly changes the Elves as a whole, backwards and forwards in time, gods know what else... Continuity, I guess, is what is more important to me than anything else. And I personally feel woefully under-equipped to try to give suggestions as to how to keep continuity running properly with such drastic changes.
Lord Karsus 07-23-07, 08:59 PM	I must ask, what's the point? -To make it known that what you are doing is silly. Why did those of you with purely negative comments even post? -See above. A number of you, Lord Karsus being one of the worst offenders, seem to think that your time spent here on the boards gives some sort of ownership over the Realms and frankly it doesn't. -Never have I claimed ownership of anything, but the vast amounts of time I spend here, and leaning over FR books does give me an insight that you do not have. And, those who spend more time than I do doing this have even more insight than I. Continue ad nauseum. You all have the right to voice an opinion on a public message board of course... so have at it I guess. -Exactly. When you get right down to it, I've purchased at one time or another every single FR gaming product, whether paper or electronic ever created so if we're measuring imaginary ownership of this product line, mine's bigger than most (especially you LK who regularly gripes about the quality of FR products and how you'll never buy this or that). -And, I have yet to buy a recent sourcebook. The last one I've purchased was Lost Empires of Faerūn . But, as the old addage says, "It's not the size that matters. It's how you use it". I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that I use mine a little more, and a little better- though, mine might be bigger than yours to begin with. But, let's not get into a measuring contest here. That's just a little weird. ...so thanks muchly... at the very least you made me realize why I don't spend much time around here. -Don't let the door hit you on your way out...:rolleyes:
Renvale999 07-23-07, 11:06 PM	To be honest OP, drastically changing the Realms is your own thing and I hope you have fun...but I think if you expect people to react in a positive manner to such a drastic change...well that's probably not going to happen. Like or not, these boards are mostly pro-canon. Asking for opinions on drastic changes is kind of like trying to give a starving dog a bone....it may seem like a good idea and you may get the one dog that doesn't bite your hand...but most likely your going to get bitten. Personally, I don't see the point of drastically changing the world, only because I really don't have that kind of time to write down all the changes, canon is generally easier, but that's just me. If you want a drastic change, fine, as Ed has stated...it's your world...just remember that it's our world as well and most people don't take change easily. Just my two idiotic cents from the plane of limbo.
sillaric_culdanin 07-25-07, 01:26 PM	If you want a drastic change, fine, as Ed has stated...it's your world...just remember that it's our world as well and most people don't take change easily. Renvale, thanks for the words... you make perfect sense actually. What you said at the end is the part that I can't logically reconcile. I'm positive that none of my tabletop players are even registered users on these boards and none of my PbP players posted in this thread. What I'm saying is, I'm not talking about changing your world. I'm not submitting this to WotC in an attempt to change the FR canon nor am I imposing it on any of you as players... so why do some people care so much? Either way, I'm still moving forward with this. Dan, I understand the concern regarding continuity and that's why I wasn't asking for help of that magnitude. In retrospect simplifying isn't the right word... cutting some of the fat is more accurate. LK, please take this as a polite and hearfelt request not to post in this thread anymore unless you have something useful to add. To those that posted concerns about removing the other human pantheons, your point is taken. I think I know how to handle that and I can explain further if you like, but its not relevant to the question at hand. Going back to the original question... What I'm looking for is suggestions on which core deities would find prominent worship among non-human races if their racial deities did not exist. Simple as that. Thanks in advance.
Drew1369r 07-25-07, 03:20 PM	My replies to each are in the <~> Hope it helps! Dwarves: Tyr, Helm, Gond, Tempus, ? <Grumbar (If you are still maitaining the elemental dieties) Nobainian and the Red Knight> Gnomes: Baravar, Gond, ? <Denier, Grumbar as well for the deep gnomes> Halflings: Chauntea, Shadukaul (sp?), Baravar/Mask <Tymora> Elves: Mystra, Selune, Sune, ? <Meilikki, Silvanus> Hobgoblins: Bane!!!!! <---- good choice!!! Orcs: Garagos, Tempus, Cyric, ? <I would remove Cyric from this list of orcs... even he is far to chaotic for orcs as well as Tempus, orcs being savage would really only fit with Garagos and possibly Talos> Goblins: Cyric <Talos, Garagos> Drow: Shar, Cyric, Mask, Ellistrae (she is Shar's daughter now, but now in service to Selune and Mystra) <Gargauth>
sillaric_culdanin 07-25-07, 04:35 PM	Drew, Thanks! That's actually really helpful. I hadn't thought of the elemental deities but they will definitely stay.... good call with Talos for the Orcs as a savage nature deity seems to fit their style as well. Much obliged!
Drew1369r 07-25-07, 06:48 PM	The one problem I see is the divinity levels that some of these dieties are going to face... if all of a sudden a few million orcs start worshipping Garagos, he can't have the war portfolio anymore because it will raise him past demigod status and it will conflict with Tempus. So you will have to remove it or change it to say "barbaric war." Or something to that effect.
sillaric_culdanin 07-25-07, 07:46 PM	Indeed, I had considered that. My thought is that they worship Garagos as the god of slaughter rather than war. They worship Talos as god of fury and some among them do indeed worship Tempus (although these are mostly gathered under Obould's banner in the Kingdom of Many-Arrows). Goblins by and large venerate Cyric and/or Mask depending on whether they are sneaks or murderous little savages. The most war-like goblins sing prayers to Garagos before slaughtering the innocent. Bugbears in general worship Garagos almost exclusively. I love the Gargauth idea for the drow... realizing that his alignment is LE, he wouldn't have a huge following but just enough to be a thorn in Shar's side. He will be joined in this position as minor pain in the Dark Lady's arse by Cyric, Mask and Velsharoon.
MarkusTay63 07-25-07, 08:03 PM	We really shouldn't beat the guy up because he wants to change the realms to suit his playing style. I've made drastic changes in the past myself, especially to the campaign maps (I still think mine make more sense). :P Changing the history/background is a lot harder in FR though, then in other settings. Nudging a few countries around is one thing, but when you change the cosmology, you re-arrange ALL the inter-racial dynamics - Good Luck. I really can't help because I'm with Dan - I think the world needs MORE gods. Not counting beast totems, powerful spirits, or celestial beings below divine level, there are still over 12,000 gods that we are aware of attributed to the various human cultures that have existed on Earth. Now multiply that by the well over 1000 intelligent species living on Toril... now add in the fact that each of those species have at least five sub-races... You get the idea. ;) There should be over 60 million gods available to players if Toril had the same ratio of gods as our own world. I understand completely the desire to limit the players choices, and how on the surface it seems to make your job easier, but in the grand scheme of things it winds up complicating far more then it resolves. I used to be a huge fan of change, but this site has given me some insight as to how deep the Realms are, and the butterfly effect applies as much there as it does here.
sillaric_culdanin 07-25-07, 09:26 PM	Markus, As with Dan, I wholeheartedly agree with your point about the continuity issues... but as I'm sure you've experienced in the past, the groups I'm running through the storyline in question aren't canon-junkies. Frankly none of them had any remote problem with the idea when I broached it with them. So... any ideas are welcome. Especially minor or little-known deities that you think fit really well with certain races.
GothicDan 07-26-07, 06:56 PM	Here's a bit of advice: cutting down so drastically on the number of deities will definitely affect the power levels of the existing ones. Try to rearrange the portfolios so that you roughly cover all of them even with your new pantheon.
sillaric_culdanin 07-26-07, 10:29 PM	Thanks Dan, That's great advice. Now, since the racial deities for the most part replicated portfolios that the core deities already held I could in theory use portfolios as a guide to which races would favor which core gods. Hmmm... that's delicious food for thought. As for the gross number of deities in my Realms, even with the removal of the racial-specific deities I think I still run with an extra 20-30 deities of my own creation. I have lesser/demi powers for all sorts of stuff (one for each school of magic, a patron for sorcerers to balance out Azuth and many location specific spirits and such). As this discussion has progressed I guess my reasoning behind the change has crystallized a bit. It wasn't to slim down, condense or whatever other silly terminology I may have used. It was to eliminate the racial deities that I felt interfered with the many plots in my current Realms instance (one in which I run two tabletop games and two more PbP games). Now I can use the terrific plot tools that come from the active battles between the human gods to draw in the demi-human races as well. Plus I have the cool added benefit of using the way different races view and worship the same deities for great fiction inspiration (even though both humans and dwarves worship Tyr they worship him from a different perspective and while humans generally associate Tyr with the Triad, the dwarves actively worship Tyr and Helm together in many ways and they form one of the largest bases of worship for the Red Knight.. and please don't flame as I just spit those out). Oh, and lest I forget the deities in my Realms don't rely only on their number of worshipers for their strength...
GothicDan 07-26-07, 11:43 PM	Anyone whose Realms' deific power is solely based on number of worshippers is a poorly interpreted one, in my opinion. It's sheer amount of genuine faith that powers the deities, not necessarily how many words get said in their name. I am assuming in your Realms the deities' natures will not be at all affected by the various ways in which they're viewed by their worshippers? This subtle, slow give-and-take of mortal and god, one changing the other, has always been either hinted at, inferred to, or blatantly stated in the past.
sillaric_culdanin 07-27-07, 01:08 AM	Not at all... I have always loved that idea. Mask is the God of Thieves, not Evil. If a gross majority of the Realms' thieves, burglars, pickpockets and confidence men up and decided to go all Robin Hood, giving back their takings to charity, not killing for fun or profit anymore... but still stealing and swindling it stands to reason that Mask as a deity would begin to shift slowly as well... not in a day of course... maybe not in a millenium but his outlook would have to adjust as well. In the new system the mightiest of the gods are those who hold sway over the fundamental areas of life for all races. Mystra and Shar as the sole pathways to the magic that gives Toril life are mighty and terrible, as are Chauntea, Silvanus, Kelemvor and the elemental Gods. Gods like Tyr, Bane, Cyric and Lathander that represent more of an ideal are still mighty as well but don't really approach the influence of the clergy's of the Elite Eight.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-27-07, 01:14 AM	Gods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don't share their power with mankind. No, I don't want to be a God. I just want to bring fire to the people. And I want my cut. -- Lex Luthor, Superman Returns, 2006. :D
sillaric_culdanin 07-27-07, 01:25 AM	Hehe... nice. :]
GothicDan 07-27-07, 04:15 AM	Not at all... I have always loved that idea. Mask is the God of Thieves, not Evil. If a gross majority of the Realms' thieves, burglars, pickpockets and confidence men up and decided to go all Robin Hood, giving back their takings to charity, not killing for fun or profit anymore... but still stealing and swindling it stands to reason that Mask as a deity would begin to shift slowly as well... not in a day of course... maybe not in a millenium but his outlook would have to adjust as well. In the new system the mightiest of the gods are those who hold sway over the fundamental areas of life for all races. Mystra and Shar as the sole pathways to the magic that gives Toril life are mighty and terrible, as are Chauntea, Silvanus, Kelemvor and the elemental Gods. Gods like Tyr, Bane, Cyric and Lathander that represent more of an ideal are still mighty as well but don't really approach the influence of the clergy's of the Elite Eight. Well, one reason for so many 'redundant' deities to pop up in a number of pantheons could largely be this very fact - divine metamorphosis via mortal worship. What happens when significant numbers of worshipers from different cultures put different spins on the same deity? Which 'form' does that deity assume to reflect the evolution given him or her from both sources of worship? Bane is the god of Tyranny, for instance. Now, in ancient Greece, tyrannies were no where nearly as naturally volatile a political system as they are considered today (Pericles, for instance), and even up until the past few centuries when economics started to overrule nobility, 'tyrannies' of various sorts were considered fine and dandy. While Faerun as a whole (or in general) is an egalitarian society, there's nothing terribly wrong I could see with many people supporting 'proper' tyrants (as some might consider individuals such as the Wychlaran). What would happen if people started to worship Bane and Tyr as merely two sides of the same coin, two extreme cases?
MarkusTay63 07-27-07, 10:09 PM	You're thinking of a despot Dan, and despotism. A Tyrant is a Despot gone bad. Then we had the "enlightened despots", which is a fairly modern invention - basically a monarch who is scared s__tless of beheading (as per the French Revolution) and has decided to grant the commoners rights, although still not given as many as the nobility, it was a step in the right direction. I think today we would call it a socialized monarchy, like they have in merry ol' England (the UK). ;)
ElberethSilverleaf 07-27-07, 11:15 PM	I'm retching! Corellon, a deity whose worship spans the multiverse subservient to some puling upstart like Mystra?? Good Day Sir! ..... I said Good Day!
Drew1369r 07-28-07, 04:22 AM	I'm retching! Corellon, a deity whose worship spans the multiverse subservient to some puling upstart like Mystra?? Good Day Sir! ..... I said Good Day! For correllon to practice magic on FR he has to have mystra's permission... which she grants, but she has full power to deny him and all of his elves, on FR and FR only, the ability to use magic. Corrollen sucks anyway... he's a panzy.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-28-07, 01:49 PM	Corrollen sucks anyway... he's a panzy.I agree. "Corellon" does have that fey look about him... :rolleyes: I think the Realms have done a good job talking about elves, and how elves used to dominate the whole planet, how they were great, how they're trying to come back, etc. But to be honest, elves in general do seem to be a relic of the past in the Realms. Aside from drow elves, I can't seem to remember a good, long-standing elf hero in all of the Realms novels. Sure, there's a lot of info on old elf kingdoms, etc., but there's nothing out there that remotely comes close to the info we've been fed on Menzoberranzan (drow), Citadel Adbar/Felbarr and Mithril Hall (dwarves). I don't own the Evermeet book from 2nd edition, but in terms of 3.0/3.5, I simply can't think of a big elf town being detailed in the Realms. My point is that when you pick elf as a race for your PC, there's nothing to "ground" the character. Either you're from Evermeet and "on a mission" or you're from one of the last forest holdouts spread on Faerun, which we don't really have info on. Which means that yes, Corellon is a freaggin' panzy. He's one of these "old", "long-standing" fixture-deities that are not so relevant in the modern/current era of Faerun. I think the gods of Faerun should be given more voice in novels. I like the way Vhaerun showed up in the spider queen books. They should do more similar appearances in novels in general and in other sourcebooks, using the goodly gods. Since the Time of Troubles, aren't gods supposed to drum up popularity with the masses? why don't they come down and speak to people once in a while?
MarkusTay63 07-28-07, 04:12 PM	Corellon can't be 'fey' because he is Androgynous! It seems there is a certain precedent that when another deity holds sway over a certain universal aspect of the sphere in question, all other gods that have interest in that aspect must answer to the one that holds the portfolio, even if the other god is older, wiser, and more powerful. Its called "Divine Etiquette", and it is enforced by the Overpowers. On any world that the Elves are in charge, I'm sure other gods answer to Corellon on all things magical. Thats just how the system works - when dealing with near-omnipotent beings, there has to be certain guildlines or the entire multiverse would just recede back into the Chaos that spawned it.
sillaric_culdanin 07-28-07, 04:36 PM	Its funny that the conversation has moved to this area as this was what prompted me to examine the removal of the racial gods in the first place. Corellon as a deity of magic in Faerun seems patently a bit silly to me. Mystra is magic in the Realms, the embodiment, shepherd and mediator of the Weave. Any deity in the Realms that holds a portfolio(s) having to do with magic should be subservient to her... simple as that, at least in my opinion. The exception is of course Shar... but to tell the truth the largest over-arching storyline in the campaign this change was designed for involves a drawn-out plan by Mystra to seize control of the Shadow Weave from Shar with the fore-knowledge that she would be irrevocably changed by the contact.
GothicDan 07-30-07, 12:10 AM	I am a huge fan of Corellon, but I completely agree that Mystra should have higher priority in magic in the Realms.
sillaric_culdanin 07-30-07, 12:33 AM	I am a huge fan of Corellon, but I completely agree that Mystra should have higher priority in magic in the Realms. I agree completely... I'm a total elf fanboy and Evermeet is easily my favorite Realms novel to date. These changes were in no way meant as a show of dislike for the Seldarine or Moradin and Co. or any of the others. I really wanted to find out how the Realms would feel with all the races united by their belief in the same set of deities. Thanks to those of you that posted, Drew especially for your excellent addition, as it has been an interesting discussion. Dan, thanks for your thoughts as they were very interesting and got me thinking about things in way I hadn't before.
Spelldancer 08-06-07, 04:24 AM	I love the realms, and I love the mythology/deities in source books. I find the feeling of history and the quirks between the faiths very interesting. That being said, I can understand a need to simply thing. Working on an online game based heavily on D&D, we opted to use the FR gods because they are the most known. Though we ran into several problems. With so many gods, either we allow them all, or limit them and make each feel special. Let me tell you, it was not easy getting a list down to 25 gods. Some we merged together, some are different than their cannon gods. For example. Loviatar is a combination of Loviatar and Talona. Oghma is Milil, Oghma, and Denier rolled into one, and being a patron of Gnomes. With Grumbar getting merged with Geb and Gond, to create a patron of Dwarves. Istishia and Eldath are merged together. Sune and Hanali are combined, with Sune also being a patron of enchanters. It's never easy to come up with a list that everyone can agree on. Especially when there is such a wealth of information to draw upon. If you are interested, I can pass along what we've done. It won't work for everyohe, but it works for us.
sillaric_culdanin 08-06-07, 06:08 AM	Spelldancer, That would be terrific! Even just to get someone elses viewpoint on what races would naturally gravitate to which deity would be tremendous. Please either post your work here or PM and I'll give you my email! Thanks.
Spelldancer 08-06-07, 06:47 PM	I can't claim this list as my own, as several of us have worked on it. Because we limited all the FR pantheon only to a few gods, some as I said got merged together. Some Faerun gods stand in for the Racial Gods as well. Those we kept, or added as the game grew are Akadi, Auril, Auppenser, Bane, Beshaba, Cyric, Grumbar, Helm, Istiahia, Kelemvor, Kossuth, Lathander, Loviatar, Mask, Mielikki, Mystra, Malar, Oghma, Shar, Selune. Shaundakul, Sune, Talos, Tempus, Tyr and Tymora. For the "racial gods" we went with Drow Lloth = Shar Vhaeraun = Cyric Eilistraee = does not exist in this world. Dwarves Moradin = Grumbar Berronor = Selune Clangeddin = Tempus Deep Duerra = Auppenser Dugmaern = Oghma Marthammor = Shaundakul Sharindlar = Sune Elves Aerdrie = Akadi Corellon = Lathander Deep Sashelas = Istishia Hanali = Sune Labelas = Oghma Sehanine = Selune Solonar = Mielikki Gnomes Baervan = Mielikki Baravar = Tymora Gaerdal = Torm Flandal = Grumbar Garl = Oghma Segojan = Kelemvor Urdlen = Malar Halflings Arvoreen = Torm Sheela = Sune Tymora = Tymora is seen as a protector of the Halflings as well Yondalla = Selune Urogalan = Kelemvor Orcs Gruumsh = Bane Ilneval = Tempus Luthic = Shar Shagaas = Mask Mystra we kept as Pre-Midnight, the LN goddess. The elemental gods are less TN, but still some aspect of N. Grumbar is LN, while Akadi is very much CN. Istishia, with the merging of Eldath and Istishia into one goddess, is more NG. Kossuth is more NE in this game. Grumbar had a very difficult charge for our players, preaching about not exploring and all that. That is when we merged Grumbar's faith with Geb's (really using Geb's dogma) and then added Gond's powers to make him a crafting/metal/artifice god. Sune's dogma is a combination of Sune and Hanali's making it something less flighty and fluffy (and I like Sune). We added her as the patron for enchanters, to round out her powers. This making her a quasi-goddess of magic. I guess it could be said she's also a bit of Lliira too. Cyric being another quasi-god of magic, with Illusions. Auppenser is the guardian of psionics, which we do have in the game. Though they work as just another form of magic. As I said, I know some people think this is blasphemy or just crap to tweak the pantheon of gods. There were just too many to add to our game. The race gods are something more like, the elves worship Lathander as Corelleon, while the Humans see him as Lathander. Different races view the faiths differently
GothicDan 08-06-07, 08:46 PM	I can imagine Corellon having been a hard fit, since he's such a unique being. I mean, he doesn't even share the same alignment or any of the same portfolios as Lathander, but I can see the same "feel" between the two - even though even his symbol is a moon versus a sun. ;) I could see Corellon as parts Milil, Mystra, and Tempus. Maybe a bit of Lliira in there, too.
Spelldancer 08-06-07, 11:03 PM	I can imagine Corellon having been a hard fit, since he's such a unique being. I mean, he doesn't even share the same alignment or any of the same portfolios as Lathander, but I can see the same "feel" between the two - even though even his symbol is a moon versus a sun. ;) I could see Corellon as parts Milil, Mystra, and Tempus. Maybe a bit of Lliira in there, too. Corellon was very hard. It was between Lathander and Mystra honestly, for the gods that we had. Lathander came out due to the good alignment (our Mystra being LN), and the creations/music-ish qualities of Lathander. Plus since Corellon takes the form usually of a gold elf, Lathander fits that easily. Mystra, the closest we could come to being was Angharradh. but decided to just phase her out. Because how can you really have one goddess who is the merging of three goddesses? Like I said, I know this does not work for everyone. This was just our answer to trying to get a smaller pantheon for our players. Silvanus is one I left of the list. He is there, but due to a low number of worshipers we wrote that he's turned his back on humanity and instead focuses on the nature world. In time when we get around to coding druids, I expect Silvanus to make a comeback. And perhaps Mielikki taking on some of Chauntea's portolio. I did also fail to mention that Istishia we also brought in Valkur and some of Umberlee's domains. Istishia is the water and sea goddess, the patron of sailors. She's not as destructive as Umberlee, but she is not a pacifist as Eldath is. So for the races, Lathander is the chief elven god. Shar is the chief drow goddess. Selune and Tymora serving as the chief two among the halflings. Oghma is the prime gnome deity. Bane and Malar play heavily into the orcs and goblinoids. While dwarves have Grumbar and Tempus, with heavy influences from Tyr and Helm.