Relatively new to FR but need advice [Archive] - Wizards Community

Relatively new to FR but need advice [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daydreamer
04-17-07, 07:22 PM I've been playing in Eberron for years. And have recently been asked to potentially dm a game in forgotten realms...a game that would be heavy on the 'metaphysics' of the world.

In eberron-the gods basically are a nonfactor-and the cosmology has no connection with core cosmology.

Whats it like in forgotten realms? I guess i have specific questions.

1) What gods 'exist' in the forgotten realms multiverse? Obviously the ones detailed in the Fr campaign setting, but what about the core gods? Or gods like Zues etc? Because of certain planes in the core cosmology being like..umm..places from historical mythology.
It would be awesome if someone had a link to a complete list of this.

2) What is FR cosmology like, ive heard it varies slightly from core cosmology? Details on the basic comsology would be great-and what books detail them...i havnt even got my hadns on the campagin setting yet though.

3) any other insights you have, im less interested in the speciifcs of the material plane, that ill learn easy from reading the sourcebook, but about the planes, gods , and how the pieces fit in the big picture.

THANKS IN ADVANCE :D
Dielzen
04-17-07, 07:46 PM The main cosmology overview can be found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, starting on pg 256.

Check my sig for a deity list. I haven't updated the page in a while, so the list of PrCs and Feats is fairly out of date, but the deities are broken down by pantheon and divine rank.
Daydreamer
04-17-07, 08:06 PM hmm useful sig. is that list complete by chance?
Dielzen
04-17-07, 09:22 PM Complete excepting any books published in the last 2 years, and the only new deities that might have been introduced are minor ones. (I don't think any have, but my memory grows fuzzy after 16ish FR books)
Shemeska the Marauder
04-17-07, 09:29 PM 2) What is FR cosmology like, ive heard it varies slightly from core cosmology? Details on the basic comsology would be great-and what books detail them...i havnt even got my hadns on the campagin setting yet though.

Of course if the 3e FR cosmology doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. Many of us, myself included, prefer to use the "core" cosmology which prior to 3e was also FR's cosmology. Fiendish Codex I as well doesn't take into account any seperate cosmology for FR and presents it, and relevant FR gods, as being there within the Abyss of the "core" cosmology.

Use what works best for you.
Daydreamer
04-17-07, 09:35 PM i heard someone remakr that Fr cosmology 'links' into standard cosmology via sigil.

i presume this is his world and not the rules as written?
Shemeska the Marauder
04-17-07, 09:38 PM i heard someone remakr that Fr cosmology 'links' into standard cosmology via sigil.

i presume this is his world and not the rules as written?

There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology.

Of course if I'm using Sigil I'm not going to bother with FR's cosmology retcon, I'll just use FR as part of the Great Wheel. Less of a headache in using the planes that way.
Stigger
04-17-07, 09:39 PM That was the case under 2e, no longer the case after 3... at least not officially.

Hmmm... interesting note there Shemeska... nice little loophole to use there. :D
GothicDan
04-17-07, 09:43 PM So, as Shemmy stated, Sigil IS officially linked to the Faerunian cosmology, and thus is a portal to the Great Wheel. So the redundancy is painfully obvious. Now it's just two clone cosmologies connected to each other, forming another over-cosmology all over again.
Daydreamer
04-17-07, 10:19 PM There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology.

Of course if I'm using Sigil I'm not going to bother with FR's cosmology retcon, I'll just use FR as part of the Great Wheel. Less of a headache in using the planes that way.

what book is that? i hope its not a novel -_-;;
Old Sage
04-17-07, 10:26 PM Of course if the 3e FR cosmology doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. Many of us, myself included, prefer to use the "core" cosmology which prior to 3e was also FR's cosmology. Fiendish Codex I as well doesn't take into account any seperate cosmology for FR and presents it, and relevant FR gods, as being there within the Abyss of the "core" cosmology.

Use what works best for you.I'll point out that Ed prefers to use both 'cosmologies' as fallible mortal maps of the same 'place'. As he once said -

"The Great Wheel or any other cosmology doesn’t bother me, just as avatar stats and the endless “but this god came first, or can beat that god” arguments don’t: mortal PCs can’t know the truth about the gods anyway, because every in-game source (supreme priests, avatars of the gods themselves, holy writings) they could possibly learn all this stuff from is biased. Everything. So it really is all up to the DM."
Old Sage
04-17-07, 10:26 PM There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology.It's from the "Abbey of the Sword" reference in F&P on pg. 161 P3-Magic Portal -- though it's one-way, from Sigil to Toril.
Old Sage
04-17-07, 10:27 PM what book is that? i hope its not a novel -_-;;See my reply above.
Old Sage
04-17-07, 10:28 PM So, as Shemmy stated, Sigil IS officially linked to the Faerunian cosmology, and thus is a portal to the Great Wheel.Indeed.

In 3e, Sigil does still exist as the City of Doors, but it now occupies a completely separate planar environment all its own inside the Great Wheel of the 3e D&D core cosmology -- as confirmed by Rich Baker. What is special about this individual plane inside the Great Wheel (and atop the Spire) is that the independent nature of the plane in which Sigil rests allows this Sigil to be the only Sigil in the entire multiverse -- thus, the Sigil of the Great Wheel is also the Sigil of the Great Tree for the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign setting.
Daydreamer
04-18-07, 12:17 AM It's from the "Abbey of the Sword" reference in F&P on pg. 161 P3-Magic Portal -- though it's one-way, from Sigil to Toril.

faiths and pantheons?
Old Sage
04-18-07, 12:29 AM That's the one. ;)
Daydreamer
04-18-07, 12:31 AM im still surprised to hear this....

I hate contradicting official fluff rules...but that means that all the greyhawk gods exist as well as all the FR gods....

So can my pcs play a cleric of obad hai... in forgotten realms?
GothicDan
04-18-07, 12:34 AM Nope, not unless you want them to. AO (the Overgod) explicitely only lets certain deities have a significant amount of worshippers in various geographic areas of the Realms, according to pantheon. The core of Faerun is made up of the Faerunian pantheon, though there are other pantheons that have presence there (the demihuman ones, in particular).
Daydreamer
04-18-07, 01:23 AM what if a greyhawk cleric of obad hai gets into fauerun?
Stigger
04-18-07, 01:40 AM Then he'd probably have his spells granted by Silvanus or one of the other nature deities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 07:22 PM	I've been playing in Eberron for years. And have recently been asked to potentially dm a game in forgotten realms...a game that would be heavy on the 'metaphysics' of the world. In eberron-the gods basically are a nonfactor-and the cosmology has no connection with core cosmology. Whats it like in forgotten realms? I guess i have specific questions. 1) What gods 'exist' in the forgotten realms multiverse? Obviously the ones detailed in the Fr campaign setting, but what about the core gods? Or gods like Zues etc? Because of certain planes in the core cosmology being like..umm..places from historical mythology. It would be awesome if someone had a link to a complete list of this. 2) What is FR cosmology like, ive heard it varies slightly from core cosmology? Details on the basic comsology would be great-and what books detail them...i havnt even got my hadns on the campagin setting yet though. 3) any other insights you have, im less interested in the speciifcs of the material plane, that ill learn easy from reading the sourcebook, but about the planes, gods , and how the pieces fit in the big picture. THANKS IN ADVANCE :D
Dielzen 04-17-07, 07:46 PM	The main cosmology overview can be found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, starting on pg 256. Check my sig for a deity list. I haven't updated the page in a while, so the list of PrCs and Feats is fairly out of date, but the deities are broken down by pantheon and divine rank.
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 08:06 PM	hmm useful sig. is that list complete by chance?
Dielzen 04-17-07, 09:22 PM	Complete excepting any books published in the last 2 years, and the only new deities that might have been introduced are minor ones. (I don't think any have, but my memory grows fuzzy after 16ish FR books)
Shemeska the Marauder 04-17-07, 09:29 PM	2) What is FR cosmology like, ive heard it varies slightly from core cosmology? Details on the basic comsology would be great-and what books detail them...i havnt even got my hadns on the campagin setting yet though. Of course if the 3e FR cosmology doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. Many of us, myself included, prefer to use the "core" cosmology which prior to 3e was also FR's cosmology. Fiendish Codex I as well doesn't take into account any seperate cosmology for FR and presents it, and relevant FR gods, as being there within the Abyss of the "core" cosmology. Use what works best for you.
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 09:35 PM	i heard someone remakr that Fr cosmology 'links' into standard cosmology via sigil. i presume this is his world and not the rules as written?
Shemeska the Marauder 04-17-07, 09:38 PM	i heard someone remakr that Fr cosmology 'links' into standard cosmology via sigil. i presume this is his world and not the rules as written? There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology. Of course if I'm using Sigil I'm not going to bother with FR's cosmology retcon, I'll just use FR as part of the Great Wheel. Less of a headache in using the planes that way.
Stigger 04-17-07, 09:39 PM	That was the case under 2e, no longer the case after 3... at least not officially. Hmmm... interesting note there Shemeska... nice little loophole to use there. :D
GothicDan 04-17-07, 09:43 PM	So, as Shemmy stated, Sigil IS officially linked to the Faerunian cosmology, and thus is a portal to the Great Wheel. So the redundancy is painfully obvious. Now it's just two clone cosmologies connected to each other, forming another over-cosmology all over again.
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 10:19 PM	There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology. Of course if I'm using Sigil I'm not going to bother with FR's cosmology retcon, I'll just use FR as part of the Great Wheel. Less of a headache in using the planes that way. what book is that? i hope its not a novel -_-;;
Old Sage 04-17-07, 10:26 PM	Of course if the 3e FR cosmology doesn't work for you, you don't have to use it. Many of us, myself included, prefer to use the "core" cosmology which prior to 3e was also FR's cosmology. Fiendish Codex I as well doesn't take into account any seperate cosmology for FR and presents it, and relevant FR gods, as being there within the Abyss of the "core" cosmology. Use what works best for you.I'll point out that Ed prefers to use both 'cosmologies' as fallible mortal maps of the same 'place'. As he once said - "The Great Wheel or any other cosmology doesn’t bother me, just as avatar stats and the endless “but this god came first, or can beat that god” arguments don’t: mortal PCs can’t know the truth about the gods anyway, because every in-game source (supreme priests, avatars of the gods themselves, holy writings) they could possibly learn all this stuff from is biased. Everything. So it really is all up to the DM."
Old Sage 04-17-07, 10:26 PM	There's a portal to Sigil under the Abby of the Sword in Battledale in one of the 3e FR books, and Rich Baker has confirmed that Sigil links to FR cross-cosmology.It's from the "Abbey of the Sword" reference in F&P on pg. 161 P3-Magic Portal -- though it's one-way, from Sigil to Toril.
Old Sage 04-17-07, 10:27 PM	what book is that? i hope its not a novel -_-;;See my reply above.
Old Sage 04-17-07, 10:28 PM	So, as Shemmy stated, Sigil IS officially linked to the Faerunian cosmology, and thus is a portal to the Great Wheel.Indeed. In 3e, Sigil does still exist as the City of Doors, but it now occupies a completely separate planar environment all its own inside the Great Wheel of the 3e D&D core cosmology -- as confirmed by Rich Baker. What is special about this individual plane inside the Great Wheel (and atop the Spire) is that the independent nature of the plane in which Sigil rests allows this Sigil to be the only Sigil in the entire multiverse -- thus, the Sigil of the Great Wheel is also the Sigil of the Great Tree for the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign setting.
Daydreamer 04-18-07, 12:17 AM	It's from the "Abbey of the Sword" reference in F&P on pg. 161 P3-Magic Portal -- though it's one-way, from Sigil to Toril. faiths and pantheons?
Old Sage 04-18-07, 12:29 AM	That's the one. ;)
Daydreamer 04-18-07, 12:31 AM	im still surprised to hear this.... I hate contradicting official fluff rules...but that means that all the greyhawk gods exist as well as all the FR gods.... So can my pcs play a cleric of obad hai... in forgotten realms?
GothicDan 04-18-07, 12:34 AM	Nope, not unless you want them to. AO (the Overgod) explicitely only lets certain deities have a significant amount of worshippers in various geographic areas of the Realms, according to pantheon. The core of Faerun is made up of the Faerunian pantheon, though there are other pantheons that have presence there (the demihuman ones, in particular).
Daydreamer 04-18-07, 01:23 AM	what if a greyhawk cleric of obad hai gets into fauerun?
Stigger 04-18-07, 01:40 AM	Then he'd probably have his spells granted by Silvanus or one of the other nature deities.