Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baptor 04-21-07, 04:51 AM	Heya folks, When 3rd Realms first hit the shelves, I was confused by this entry in the Magic section on this "Shadow Weave". I'd never heard of it before. I assumed it was some minor thing I simply never picked up (I had only been playing Realms a few years prior). As the years passed, I had a wizard that was interested in the SW, and I began picking more lore up from MoF and Troy Denning's novels. After playing the SW user only a few sessions, the said player decided he did not like it and re-rolled a normal wizard. That's been the trend for the small number (3) of players I've had interested in the SW. They pick it up, realize its not what they want, and drop it. Anyways, as I've learned more about WotC's new fangled SW and its mechanics, rules and lore, I've liked it less and less. Basically, mechanically, its a terrible feat and set of abilities, and from a RP perspective, its a ton of danger for not much benefit. From a mechanical standpoint, you can take a feat that gives a slight bonus to a few schools and a penalty to a couple others, prohibition from light spells, and either a Wisdom penalty or a high Wisdom requirement (depending on your version). The only real way to make use of it is to take several more feats or a prestige class. Not entirely worth it. From a roleplaying standpoint, which can never be totally divorced from a mechanical one, you are forever hated and hunted. In exchange for what could at most be marginal benefits, you are hated by Weave users who want to kill you because you use a corrupted magic, and hated by Shar's church unless you join that church (and really, who does?). In the end, it supports a whole "weave is good, shadow weave is evil" mentality IMO, which is not right. While some could argue the SW is inherently evil, the weave has always been regarded as Neutral. All creatures, good and bad, fair and foul can use magic and become mages. Why do we need another "dark side" to magic, when magic was never truly "light" to start? Now some of you may love the SW and hats off to ya. But this point ain't for those of ye who love the SW. It's a question to anyone out there that is frustrated with it as I am. The question is, if you don't like the SW, what do you do with it? A few options came to my mind. 1. Ignore it. It doesn't exist. 2. It exists, but plays a minor role. Basically, Shar has her own weave that her followers can use, such that they not need fear Mystra or her agents. 3. It exists, but is not as divorced from the weave as written. Its basically a portion of the Weave itself that Mystra has lost control over that Shar now operates. (A friend of mine suggested this idea) Those are only a few ideas. At present, we are simply ignoring the problem, but I'd like to slap down a "Baptor's canon" version of what I feel about the SW soon in my campaigns. One last thought. A friend of mine who loves playing arcane casters had this to say. "What I really hate about the SW is that the books keep trying to tell us its not really "evil" when it clearly is. It is controlled and monitored by an evil church and an evil goddess. You can't take the PrC if you are good, and the schools it enhances are typically seen as "shady" schools, no pun intended. Joining the ranks of the SW users is like joining the Nazis. They may say they aren't really evil, but the fact almost everyone on earth despises them says otherwise." Maybe a bit dramatic, but I think he makes one heck of a point.
Karsus the Mad 04-21-07, 06:50 AM	It exists in my Realms, but is strictly for NPCs. While the players may know it exists, the characters don't, nor is there any reason for them to. I also ignore the whole anti-SW stuff, like the Rend Shadow Weave spell, etc.
The Ubbergeek 04-21-07, 10:43 AM	Keep it for nPC if you wish. But let us not forget it is canon, and should not be dismissed like that just because.
Stigger 04-21-07, 12:11 PM	Completely ignore its existance personally, at least in the home campaign... once that gets back to its regular schedule anyway. By the same token though, I pretty much ignore the whole tree thing as anything other than academic musing on cosmological models.
The Ubbergeek 04-21-07, 04:10 PM	Ignorating it is lazy, ignore the fact it's canon, and potentialy remove an usefull plot hook. Instead of going the eazy way, one should try to add things to complete any hole left.
Karsus the Mad 04-21-07, 05:11 PM	Ignorating it is lazy, ignore the fact it's canon, and potentialy remove an usefull plot hook. Instead of going the eazy way, one should try to add things to complete any hole left. Ignoring something that wasn't made for, intended to be in, or developed in mind with, FR, isn't nearly as 'bad' as ignoring say....something as iconic as the Chosen, but people do it, and run fun, successful games. Canon doesn't always mean good. It simply means it got past the editors;) No need to call people lazy simply because they don't include everything printed;) ..ironic actually, since simply accepting anything published is the easier path. With ignoring something published, one must also work out how to alter everything else that's affected by not including something...huh.
The Ubbergeek 04-21-07, 06:31 PM	It was intended, it IS canon. Like it or not. It is something very Sharesque, nobody can deny this. The dark wench would make such a thing to get the upper hand. Perhaps even as a trap for Mystra... It would be more constructive to fleshen it - it's a good idea, albeit marred by not as much developpement as it have.
Karsus the Mad 04-21-07, 07:57 PM	It was intended, The novel in which it first appeared, The Shadowstone, wasn't originally an FR novel. That's what I was talking about. it IS canon. Like it or not. I am confident that I never said it wasn't canon;) It is something very Sharesque, nobody can deny this. The dark wench would make such a thing to get the upper hand. Perhaps even as a trap for Mystra... Now that the SW is openly known, it doesn't seem particularly Sharesque anymore, but I am curious as to what Shar intends to do now;) It would be more constructive to fleshen it - it's a good idea, albeit marred by not as much developpement as it have. That'd be nice. I agree, it itself is a good idea. What makes it "ugh" imo is the implementation of it into FR with nothing more than "it's been here, ya just didn't know it.", which I suppose fits with Shar.
Lord Karsus 04-21-07, 08:25 PM	The novel in which it first appeared, The Shadowstone, wasn't originally an FR novel. That's what I was talking about. -If I am not mistaken, though, that was 2e Shadow Magic, which was different from the Shadow Weave, although the two have been merged together now. What makes it "ugh" imo is the implementation of it into FR with nothing more than "it's been here, ya just didn't know it.", which I suppose fits with Shar. -That's the problem with so many new additions/changes...
Stigger 04-22-07, 08:13 AM	Not lazy in the slightest... not like the conflict between Mystra and Shar is something new, we hardly needed yet another reason for them to hate each other. I just don't feel it added anything to my campaign... it just seems sloppy and tacked on, which doesn't have a place in my games. I'd much rather work with less of a blunt instrument of a plot device. The Shadow Weave just lacks the finesse I attribute to Shar, and feels more like a sideshow that has a place on daytime drama rather than something with an actually thought out plot. Simple as that... canon or no canon, if I don't like something, it ceases to exist and I come up with something to explain stuff based around it. That can take a whole lot of work to justify a few things.
Baptor 04-22-07, 09:04 AM	Yeah, I agree. I'd be more tempted to follow canon if it had stayed the same throughout, but they've changed their minds so many times now its starting to get old. I mean, It's bad enough they felt they had to go back and change everything TSR did, but they can't even agree with their own history. In one sourcebook we are told the SW was inadvertently created as part of the Weave's creation, and in another we are told Shar herself created it after Mystra was already established. So I mean what canon are you gonna follow? The canon as of today, two weeks ago? I can't keep up with all this even if I tried, so I guess I'll just do what I want :P
PharaunMizzrym 04-22-07, 05:03 PM	Minor details like that normally do not affect gameplay. I would combine both versions and say that Shar took the shadow weave (the empty space between the folds of the weave) and created the conduit through herself that allows access to the shadow weave (explaining why she controls it). In the end it really falls to the DM's interpretation of the text. If only Hawkings had played D&D we might have had a greater understanding of its cosmology.
Lord Karsus 04-22-07, 06:51 PM	Minor details like that normally do not affect gameplay. -It's not gameplay that we care about. It's the continuity and integrity of the setting that we care about.
selunatic2397 04-22-07, 08:57 PM	I did what I do to any other thing that pops up in the Forgotten Realms literature and source books... I let my group read and discuss it, then we brought it to a vote... The vote was unanimously no. So we have no shadow weave and continue to have fun... Which is why we play this game anyway :)
Meldread 04-22-07, 09:24 PM	Personally, I like the concept of the Shadow Weave and other forms of magic that are not linked to the Weave. I've always disliked the idea that a single deity controlled all things magical. I may have liked the concept better if the Weave was independent from the deities, a true neutral construct which could repair and operate itself. However, really the Shadow Weave plays a pretty minor role in the large scheme of things. This is in a large part because it is a secret by the very nature of its creator. Those who use it are typically worshipers of Shar, and therefore are not inclined to share their knowledge. Those who are not worshipers of Shar and use it do not know where the power comes from, and have more or less accidentally stumbled upon it. Those who do not use the Shadow Weave but know of its existence are not inclined to talk, because typically they are followers or allies of Mystra and speaking of the Shadow Weave would encourage its use. However, I do see Shar as trying to slowly advance the ideas and notion of the Shadow Weave and she is basically doing this through two approaches. First, she is seeking divine allies who will switch to the Shadow Weave. Second, she is seeking out evil aligned Wizards who train lots of apprentices. Ignore the novels for the most part, and go with what seems right. The Shadow Weave is not the only construct that is independent from the Weave. Psionics is another, as well as a few other more minor forms of magic. There are certainly a few minor holes in the lore, but they should rarely pose a problem and if they somehow come up, they are easily patched. The Shadow Weave is wonderful if you are running a game for evil PC's, as well as villains. Other than that it should have little impact unless you are basing a campaign around it.
PharaunMizzrym 04-22-07, 10:01 PM	-It's not gameplay that we care about. It's the continuity and integrity of the setting that we care about. Other people on here seem to also be looking at the gameplay side of things, so you do not care about gameplay. Nor did I say that continuity and integrity were not important. I meant that one can still play the game fine without knowing all the specifics of the shadow weaves creation. How many people in Faerun know that much about what Shar creates? Not the deity who likes to make conversation and gossip. Don't get so uptight about it, you're a vestige now Karsus, you have eternity to figure out the shadow weave.
Baptor 04-22-07, 10:30 PM	Minor details like that normally do not affect gameplay. I would combine both versions and say that Shar took the shadow weave (the empty space between the folds of the weave) and created the conduit through herself that allows access to the shadow weave (explaining why she controls it). In the end it really falls to the DM's interpretation of the text. If only Hawkings had played D&D we might have had a greater understanding of its cosmology. Ok, so my complaint about the continuity of the SW here was not relevant to gameplay Phareun, it was in response to that poster that said "it is canon, like it or not" and "you cannot dismiss canon". I was pointing out trying to follow strictly to canon is impossible, since it changes so often and contradicts itself. While yes, I care about gameplay, the post you are referencing here and later is not about gameplay. I do like your alternate view of the SW here, and I will consider it.
Stigger 04-23-07, 01:42 AM	Other people on here seem to also be looking at the gameplay side of things, so you do not care about gameplay. Nor did I say that continuity and integrity were not important. I meant that one can still play the game fine without knowing all the specifics of the shadow weaves creation. How many people in Faerun know that much about what Shar creates? Not the deity who likes to make conversation and gossip. Don't get so uptight about it, you're a vestige now Karsus, you have eternity to figure out the shadow weave. Well do consider he's a tripartite Karsus, the aspect speaking with one voice for the Three Whom are the Karsii. Kinda like the Royal We the Queen uses when speaking to the plebians. ;)
Lord Karsus 04-23-07, 08:46 AM	Other people on here seem to also be looking at the gameplay side of things, so you do not care about gameplay. Nor did I say that continuity and integrity were not important. I meant that one can still play the game fine without knowing all the specifics of the shadow weaves creation. How many people in Faerun know that much about what Shar creates? Not the deity who likes to make conversation and gossip. Don't get so uptight about it, you're a vestige now Karsus, you have eternity to figure out the shadow weave. Well do consider he's a tripartite Karsus, the aspect speaking with one voice for the Three Whom are the Karsii. Kinda like the Royal We the Queen uses when speaking to the plebians. ;) -Exactly.
Karsus the Mad 04-23-07, 10:32 AM	you're a vestige now Karsus You're confusing the FR Karsus with the non-FR Karsus. The vestige Karsus is the one from the Dragonquest adventure "The Enchanted Wood".....:incog: FR Karsus=Tripartite soul. DQ Karsus=Vestige. ':shifty: -Exactly. Precisely.
Lord Karsus 04-23-07, 12:20 PM	You're confusing the FR Karsus with the non-FR Karsus. The vestige Karsus is the one from the Dragonquest adventure "The Enchanted Wood".....:incog: FR Karsus=Tripartite soul. DQ Karsus=Vestige. ':shifty: Precisely. -Right.
The WarOverlord 04-25-07, 04:47 PM	Heya folks, When 3rd Realms first hit the shelves, I was confused by this entry in the Magic section on this "Shadow Weave". I'd never heard of it before. I assumed it was some minor thing I simply never picked up (I had only been playing Realms a few years prior). As the years passed, I had a wizard that was interested in the SW, and I began picking more lore up from MoF and Troy Denning's novels. After playing the SW user only a few sessions, the said player decided he did not like it and re-rolled a normal wizard. That's been the trend for the small number (3) of players I've had interested in the SW. They pick it up, realize its not what they want, and drop it. Anyways, as I've learned more about WotC's new fangled SW and its mechanics, rules and lore, I've liked it less and less. Basically, mechanically, its a terrible feat and set of abilities, and from a RP perspective, its a ton of danger for not much benefit. From a mechanical standpoint, you can take a feat that gives a slight bonus to a few schools and a penalty to a couple others, prohibition from light spells, and either a Wisdom penalty or a high Wisdom requirement (depending on your version). The only real way to make use of it is to take several more feats or a prestige class. Not entirely worth it. From a roleplaying standpoint, which can never be totally divorced from a mechanical one, you are forever hated and hunted. In exchange for what could at most be marginal benefits, you are hated by Weave users who want to kill you because you use a corrupted magic, and hated by Shar's church unless you join that church (and really, who does?). In the end, it supports a whole "weave is good, shadow weave is evil" mentality IMO, which is not right. While some could argue the SW is inherently evil, the weave has always been regarded as Neutral. All creatures, good and bad, fair and foul can use magic and become mages. Why do we need another "dark side" to magic, when magic was never truly "light" to start? Now some of you may love the SW and hats off to ya. But this point ain't for those of ye who love the SW. It's a question to anyone out there that is frustrated with it as I am. The question is, if you don't like the SW, what do you do with it? A few options came to my mind. 1. Ignore it. It doesn't exist. 2. It exists, but plays a minor role. Basically, Shar has her own weave that her followers can use, such that they not need fear Mystra or her agents. 3. It exists, but is not as divorced from the weave as written. Its basically a portion of the Weave itself that Mystra has lost control over that Shar now operates. (A friend of mine suggested this idea) Those are only a few ideas. At present, we are simply ignoring the problem, but I'd like to slap down a "Baptor's canon" version of what I feel about the SW soon in my campaigns. One last thought. A friend of mine who loves playing arcane casters had this to say. "What I really hate about the SW is that the books keep trying to tell us its not really "evil" when it clearly is. It is controlled and monitored by an evil church and an evil goddess. You can't take the PrC if you are good, and the schools it enhances are typically seen as "shady" schools, no pun intended. Joining the ranks of the SW users is like joining the Nazis. They may say they aren't really evil, but the fact almost everyone on earth despises them says otherwise." Maybe a bit dramatic, but I think he makes one heck of a point. The Shadow Weave is made up of the negative strands between the normal weave (Forgotten Realms Campaign setting,0-7869-1836-5, page 57, by ED GREENWOOD, Sean Reyolds,Skip Willams,and Rob Heinsoo) The "Weave" and it's counterport is how the godlings of the Forgotten Realms try to control the flow of Magic in the Forgotten Realms and there may or may not be goddlings elsewhere in other Realms with or without their own type of "circut Breaker" system. Because the Shadow Weave is in fact a pisant version of the real Weave specifically made by Shar, it is morely in control by her and mostly for her worshipers to use though Bards tend to stumble upon the Shadow Weave cause it is sort of a "Charmed Snake" to magical music influences. The cost to even Shar's followers is a lost of Wisdom and with out the comfort of the Dark goddess the Bard types dabbling in the Shadow Weave tend to go insane the more they dabble and if there is no "Shadow King" the Bard slowly is corupted in mind and body until he/she becomes that twisted demented sorry assed creature....lol
Lord Karsus 04-25-07, 06:44 PM	Because the Shadow Weave is in fact a pisant version of the real Weave specifically made by Shar... -Almost. We don't know the exact deal with Shar and the Shadow Weave. Theoretically, she could have created it. But, at the same time, it is just as likely that she didn't create it, but gained "mastery" over it before anyone else.
MaskedOne 04-25-07, 07:05 PM	Other people on here seem to also be looking at the gameplay side of things, so you do not care about gameplay. Nor did I say that continuity and integrity were not important. I meant that one can still play the game fine without knowing all the specifics of the shadow weaves creation. How many people in Faerun know that much about what Shar creates? Not the deity who likes to make conversation and gossip. Don't get so uptight about it, you're a vestige now Karsus, you have eternity to figure out the shadow weave. In the absence of an active presence Karsus, the Vestige, henceforth known as the Great Exiled Ghost, aspects of the Momentary One have been known to speak on the aforementioned ghost's behalf however, neither of our active True Karsi are in fact said ghost. The tri-partite Karsus is split between Superrock, an astral corpse and if memory serves, a golem. Which of the three are represented is unclear. On top of that, we have the host of clones and their varying degrees of self-delusion.
Lord Karsus 04-25-07, 07:51 PM	On top of that, we have the host of clones and their varying degrees of self-delusion. -None of which are actually active, right now, though.
Hawkfeather 04-25-07, 08:34 PM	But, at the same time, it is just as likely that she didn't create it, but gained "mastery" over it before anyone else. If my mind isn't trick me, I think Ed said this in Candlekeep a few weeks ago. Something about Shar acting only as a "door guard" for the Shadow Weave.
Lord Karsus 04-25-07, 08:46 PM	If my mind isn't trick me, I think Ed said this in Candlekeep a few weeks ago. Something about Shar acting only as a "door guard" for the Shadow Weave. -I don't know what Ed said, but it's the classical comic-book cliche- if there's no body, there is no death. Or, in other words, if there is nothing written about that particular subject, who knows! -It was never implicitly stated that Shar, using her own powers or what not, created the Shadow Weave from scratch, from the Weave, or whatever else she could have possibly made it from. Thus, we should only believe any particular hypothesis when we metaphorically "see it".
PharaunMizzrym 04-27-07, 05:04 PM	Tome of Magic says something about this. Ill have to look it up later. Its in a sidebar. If a core D&D book states something about FR, is it considered Canon?
Stigger 04-27-07, 05:20 PM	Depends on what the reference is really, but it probably is the case.
Lord Karsus 04-27-07, 05:33 PM	If a core D&D book states something about FR, is it considered Canon? -Depends on what exactly is said. When it comes to continuity though, actual FR products always trump generic D&D products.
GothicDan 04-27-07, 05:36 PM	Ed Greenwood specifically said something that superceded the sidebar in ToM - which was mysteriously absent when the book was given to him to peruse... Old sage, care to give us a quote?
Karsus the Mad 04-27-07, 09:21 PM	Ed Greenwood specifically said something that superceded the sidebar in ToM - which was mysteriously absent when the book was given to him to peruse... Old sage, care to give us a quote? It's the sidebar that says that in FR, Shadow Magic is tied to the Shadow Weave....<cough>
Faraer 04-27-07, 10:01 PM	Tome of Magic says something about this. Ill have to look it up later. Its in a sidebar. If a core D&D book states something about FR, is it considered Canon?"Canon" is really just a hierarchy of likelihoods that particular sources will be adhered to in future ones. If the statement is unproblematic, and the new book's author is aware of it, it'll probably be kept to. If the statement is a quickie "for instance, in the Realms it works like this" hypothetical aside, or if it's ill-informed or hastily considered, the authors will readily ignore it.It's the sidebar that says that in FR, Shadow Magic is tied to the Shadow Weave....<cough>See here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/sse_010203-06.htm) and search for "Tome of Magic".
The Ubbergeek 04-27-07, 10:43 PM	It's the sidebar that says that in FR, Shadow Magic is tied to the Shadow Weave....<cough> It's logical, at least.
Lord Karsus 04-27-07, 10:50 PM	It's the sidebar that says that in FR, Shadow Magic is tied to the Shadow Weave....<cough> -I don't have the book, but is that all that ToM says on the topic? Because, if so, that really isn't...you know...helpful.
Karsus the Mad 04-27-07, 11:14 PM	See here and search for "Tome of Magic". I know. I was specifying the content of the sidebar that was absent from what was given to Ed. -I don't have the book, but is that all that ToM says on the topic? Because, if so, that really isn't...you know...helpful. Let's see....where did I put that thing...ah yes, found. "Those few who truly understand it, such as shadow magic casters, use the Shadow Weave as a source for their power, drawing on it the way shadow mages of other worlds draw directly from the Plane of Shadow." Before that it talks about the Weave being a network of mystical energies, etc, etc, and about the shadow weave being a network of "negative" magic and so on.
Lord Karsus 04-27-07, 11:20 PM	"Those few who truly understand it, such as shadow magic casters, use the Shadow Weave as a source for their power, drawing on it the way shadow mages of other worlds draw directly from the Plane of Shadow." -So, basically, what we have here is a way to bypass Shar's monopoly on the Shadow Weave, as Shadow Magic casters (Shadow Mages) are not beholden to her, nor do they have the Shadow Weave Magic feat, or any of that stuff. In short, I'm sure she loves these guys. This does help reconcile Caeldan Caledorian and son, and other Shadow Magic casters who did not really exhibit the traits of Shadow Weave casters.
Karsus the Mad 04-28-07, 08:19 AM	-So, basically, what we have here is a way to bypass Shar's monopoly on the Shadow Weave, as Shadow Magic casters (Shadow Mages) are not beholden to her, nor do they have the Shadow Weave Magic feat, or any of that stuff. In short, I'm sure she loves these guys. This does help reconcile Caeldan Caledorian and son, and other Shadow Magic casters who did not really exhibit the traits of Shadow Weave casters. With such a publication in mind (not saying I agree, as I personally disagree completely), it's no more Shar's monopoly on the Shadow Weave as it is Mystra's monopoly on the Weave...which is rediculously complete by the fanatics and, unheard of by litteral thinking. But no, it is not a way to "bypass" Shar or her control on the SW. Shadow Magic has always been accessible via the Weave. Ed's citation states such, directly contradicting ToM. This is one of those instances where I don't mind (and prefer) a section of a sourcebook that I spent hard earned money for being purposely made invalid by some obscure internet jargon. Caeldan Caledorian and son, Races of Faerun has a feat...Shadow Song (I think...can't remember), which specifically connects Talfiric Bards (come on...Veraketh...cough...gaggle...hag...) to the Shadow Weave. So yeah, it certainly seems Caledan Caldorien (spell it correctly!...only if I spelled it correctly...heh), son of the Shadow King, was a shadow weave Bard.
Lord Karsus 04-28-07, 08:20 PM	But no, it is not a way to "bypass" Shar or her control on the SW. -What I mean is that the character who casts this Shadow Magic taps the Shadow Weave without having to take the Shadow Weave feat, and "giving" Shar those Wisdom points. So yeah, it certainly seems Caledan Caldorien (spell it correctly!...only if I spelled it correctly...heh), son of the Shadow King, was a shadow weave Bard. -I went to the books, and it's "Caledan Caldorien". :)
PharaunMizzrym 04-29-07, 12:02 AM	My interpretating is that the form of shadow magic in ToM is used for the other worlds such as Greyhawk and Eberron, but in Forgotten realms shadow magic is used as the published materials for FR state, with the feat and such. Also keep in mind that mysteries aren't truly spells, whereas the shadow magic of the realms is normal spells being cast from a variant source of magic. If an FR DM greatly prefers the Shadow Magic of ToM, then run with that. The general way of running things seems to be to use shadow weave in FR and mysteries in other settings. Saying that Shar is not the conduit of shadow magic greatly reduces her power and importance, and should only be done if this is what the individual DM wants. Another variant would be to make Shar the deity of mysteries and those who use them, cutting her ties with magic while increasing her ties with shadow (which technically still belongs to Mask). If Ed Greenwood has given answers contrary to ToM, I believe that this should be on the official Wizards of the Coast website (or elaborated on in a future novel or accessory).
PharaunMizzrym 04-29-07, 12:12 AM	In past posts I recall someone mentioning that shadow magic worked differently in 2E of FR. Some of the past novels are then not neccessarily reliable for the current way shadow magic works. If anyone can explain to me how shadow magic worked back in 2E, that would be much appreciated.
GothicDan 04-29-07, 11:34 AM	Im 2E, Shadow Magic was magic that was part of the School of Shadow, which accessed spells (typically of one or more of the following schools: necromancy, enchantment, illusion/phantasm) that were powered in some way or other by the demiplane of shadow. It had nothing to do with the Shadow Weave, which didn't exist.
PharaunMizzrym 04-29-07, 03:05 PM	Thanks Dan.
Lord Karsus 04-29-07, 10:49 PM	In past posts I recall someone mentioning that shadow magic worked differently in 2E of FR. Some of the past novels are then not neccessarily reliable for the current way shadow magic works. If anyone can explain to me how shadow magic worked back in 2E, that would be much appreciated. -See Curse of the Shadow Mage and Crypt of the Shadowking.
Karsus the Mad 04-30-07, 09:54 AM	-See Curse of the Shadow Mage and Crypt of the Shadowking. That would be bardic shadow magic, which even then was different than Shadow Magic, as only the bloodline of Veraketh could use it, and it was originally gifted by the Shadevari..let's see...how many shady shadow magics are there currently wiggling through the shaded alley... Shadow Weave Illusion (Shadow) subschool Shadow Magic (ToM style) Shadow Magic (Talfiric bard stuff that only the bloodline of Veraketh the Shadowking could use....as of RoF is now merely bardic magic via the Shadow Weave) Shadow effect (Lantanese artificers tap into the Illusion (Shadow) subschool to empower certain artificer devices with supernatural abilities).
Greowhiste 05-01-07, 12:44 AM	I have a question in a more adjacent line of response, I have BBEG in my campaign using the SW. If someone casting a spell who uses the SW is standing right next to one that doesn't, does the Weave user recognize that the SW user is casting from a different source? is there some sort of increase to the spellcraft DC? I'm a bit fuzzy on the mechanics, would like some help. Thanks!
Karsus the Mad 05-01-07, 12:31 PM	I have a question in a more adjacent line of response, I have BBEG in my campaign using the SW. If someone casting a spell who uses the SW is standing right next to one that doesn't, does the Weave user recognize that the SW user is casting from a different source? is there some sort of increase to the spellcraft DC? I'm a bit fuzzy on the mechanics, would like some help. Thanks! I believe there's an increased Spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast. I could be wrong tho'. I don't have my books with me at the moment, as I'm at an internet cafe.
Greowhiste 05-01-07, 01:00 PM	i have my books, but i don't know where it would be...
Lord Karsus 05-01-07, 06:17 PM	i have my books, but i don't know where it would be... -The "Feats" section of the FRCS.
Greowhiste 05-02-07, 01:18 AM	olright, well, there's nothing in there about someone being able to tell you are using the SW when you cast. I mean, in the same way that you can just use Spellcraft to identify what another caster is casting, is there a way to tell if that caster is tapping into the Shadow Weave?
Nicholas the Paladin 05-14-07, 09:39 AM	I mean, It's bad enough they felt they had to go back and change everything TSR did, but they can't even agree with their own history. In one sourcebook we are told the SW was inadvertently created as part of the Weave's creation, could you please tell me what source this is? and in another we are told Shar herself created it after Mystra was already established. This is FRCS right?
Zsych 05-16-07, 03:26 PM	Hmm... Shadow magic may draw upon the Shadow-weave.. possibly creating an interface in between the caster and the Shadow-weave. I don't really recall any particularly amazing shadow spells, and Shar would probably be able to block someone's access to Shadow Weave magic from the Weave(by disrupting whatever they use as a conduit). So you get partial benefit(not really getting all the benefits of being a shadow-weave user), and partial risk(in that Shar can control a bit of your magic).