Shar ... her preferred Evil Outsider Minions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shar ... her preferred Evil Outsider Minions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Craig C.
03-16-07, 12:55 PM I'm in the process of creating my own Forgotten Realms campaign arc that features a significant waxing of Shar's power and some large-scale power grab attempts by her and her clergy.

The campaign will be running from 6th to 18th level in play.

I come to you experts for some assistance on finding the most appropriate Evil Outsiders that would mesh well in working with Shar's clergy to expand her influence and work towards her ultimate goal in the snuffing out of existence as we know it. These Evil Outsiders will come about via her clerics use of Planar Binding and Planar Ally spells, as well as some custom-made magic items and rituals.

All of the WotC 3.0/3.5 D&D evil outsiders are open for consideration. So are creative uses of template-applied creatures (Fiendish, Half-Fiendish, Shadow Creature, Fiend of Possession, etc.).

Since I am not really-well versed in the type of Evil Outsiders that Shar has historically/traditionally used in the past, any help you can provide on that angle is helpful as well.

I'm having a challenged time thinking of good creatures for this project. Primarily because of the dearth of Neutral Evil creatures who share her unique take on dogma and destiny.

Thanks for your help! :tiphat:
Optimystik
03-16-07, 02:14 PM I don't have too much literature on her so I can't provide specifics, but here are a couple of ideas:

She lives on the plane of shadow, so I wouldn't see her summoning too many denizens of other deity's planes, e.g. Fury's Heart, Demonweb Pits.
Her status as Neutral Evil doesn't make her opposed to Chaotic or Lawful outsiders as followers - quite the opposite in fact. Rather, it represents her lack of interest in her followers' underlying motivation so long as they further her cause in some way. So she would have no qualms about summoning both tanar'ri and baatezu (demons and devils).
Having said that, the higher-level baddies and foozles the PCs end up facing (particularly any avatars/manifestations of her) should probably be female, share her alignment, and be related to some form of shadow/darkness theme. You probaably already have that planned but I thought it deserved mentioning anyway.

In short I think you're limiting yourself unnecessarily by trying to find Neutral Evil servants for her clergy. Most forms of neutrality, particularly Shar's, represent more a lack of interest in extreme viewpoints than an actual focus on balance between them. This is particularly true if her situation is about to become as desperate as you describe.
Snow Savant
03-16-07, 02:29 PM Optimystik brings up some excellent points.

Her status as Neutral Evil doesn't make her opposed to Chaotic or Lawful outsiders as followers - quite the opposite in fact. Rather, it represents her lack of interest in her followers' underlying motivation so long as they further her cause in some way. So she would have no qualms about summoning both tanar'ri and baatezu (demons and devils).That's true. Although I think that any ultra-powerful outsiders that work for her and her clergy at higher level play ... would better serve her goals if they bought in to some of her tenets. They'd also be more manageable and less resource-intensive than powerful fiends who are only in it for mercenary means or angrily locked-in via calling magicks.

**

Also Craig, if you look at Dragon Magazine #353 on pg. 70, there is an awesome high level outsider who are considered some of Shar's most valued servitors. They are called Umbral Glooms (CR 11, 10 HD), and their game mechanics are an accurate reflection of what you would expect in a powerful/influential Shar minion.

You are also on track with the various conversion templates that make creatures more associated with the Plane of Shadow. I don't have a list of them at the moment, so I'll look into that unless someone beats me to it.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-16-07, 03:00 PM There's past precident for Shar purchasing the services of yugoloths (there's an arcanaloth in The Black Bouquet). They share her alignment, her divine domain is located on the Gray Waste, and despite the 'loth racial disdain for deities, if you offer enough, they'll nominally work on your behalf.

But I can easily see Shar cultivating allies amongst the Abyssal Lords and Baatezu nobles, gaining fiends from both races on loan effectively, so long as her use of them doesn't end up conflicting with the overall goals of the fiends, or the specific goals of the archfiend loaning her their servitors. It's in her best interest even if their particular brand of evil they represent doesn't follow her own, because let's face it, it's not in any gods best interest to rely on yugoloths.

More than just buying loyalty from the various major fiend races, I can see Shar having servitors crafted from her own petitioners in forms unique to her outlook, similar to how Set crafts the 'Minions of Set' from his own petitioners rather than rely on the Baatezu (especially given him being on the outs, politically speaking, with at least one Lord of the 9).
Stigger
03-16-07, 03:42 PM Given F&A's description of her lackeys as 'mysterious shadow monsters', I'd go with Shemeska's crafted petitioner theory over everything else.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
03-16-07, 04:18 PM Given F&A's description of her lackeys as 'mysterious shadow monsters', I'd go with Shemeska's crafted petitioner theory over everything else.
Yeah. This would give you a good opportunity to go crazy with using those fiendish and shadow themed templates on non-outsiders that seem more thematically-attuned to Shar.
Soltares
03-16-07, 07:06 PM Having Shar served by formerly good aligned creatures that have 'fallen into despair' would be awesome. Change the alignment descriptors around, reverse some of the spells (cures to inflicts, prot from evil to prot from good), and perhaps a shadow creature template, and a pale skinned gaunt fallen Deva in tattered finery would be a scary 'demon of Shar.'

Otherwise, yeah, throwing shadow / fiendish templates on appropriate feeling critters, like Ogre Magi, or Half-Shadow Dragon Cloud Giants, could be fun.
Paix
03-16-07, 08:28 PM There are those shadow fiends, that devour both the body and the soul of their victims. They would match Shar's ethos perfectly. I cannot remember their exact name however. They inhabited a particular layer of the Abyss and I remember them appearing in one of the Sembia novels.

In the 2e version there was the paraelemental plane of the Void and one of the creatures there, was essentialy a kind of 'black hole' on legs. Again it would match her nihilistic approach if you have access to the Planescape monstrous compendium IV and do not mind a bit of updating.

Nightshades, nightwalkers and similar shadow creatures are bound to have found their way into her graces too.
Rude
03-16-07, 09:41 PM Gloom Golems, Shadow Templated anything, Shadow Demons (I had a high level campaign with a high level Shadow Adept PC. He had recieved dream visions from Rhixali, Princess of Shadow Demons [I believe from the Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement]. She was allied with Shar)I've used vampire clerics of Shar. If they hit epic levels, you can use the Gloom from the Epic Level Handbook somehow. Check the Tome of Magic if you have it I think there are some shadow creatures in there too.
Book
03-16-07, 10:08 PM Indeed, Rude's suggestion about ToM "shadow" creatures are right on target.

Note: Ephemeral Hangman, Khayal Genie, & Shadow Elementals are all perfect for being Shar minions. As other's stated above, template them if you feel they need more tweaking to be Shar-friendly.

Like the various Shadow themed templates (does anyone have a list of these 3 or 4 templates and their locations?), the Dark Creature template in ToM is also a good candidate for use.

Oh yes - in the newish Monster Manual IV, check out the Skiurid on page 126. It's a shadow-born version of a squirrel (!!) that specifically states that they share a "mystical connection with Shar". Awesome! They are only CR 1/2, so for your lowest level of play (6th level), you'll need a bunch of them.

Last, the MotP book has the 3 Ephemera creatures - Dusk Beast, Ecalypse, and Umbral Banyan. They look, feel, smell, and taste like Shar minions. :devil:
The Simbul
03-16-07, 10:15 PM The Shades are Outsiders.
Wire
03-17-07, 06:18 PM One of the older 3.X Web Enhancements has a list of preferred avatars and Planar Ally selections for each of the Faerunian deities.

Does anybody remember which Web Enhancement that is ???
Link182
03-17-07, 07:07 PM It was a supplement called Do's and Don'ts for FR deities. Shar has Nightshades and Beholders listed as creatures she uses as well as Crows and Ravens as animals that are sacred to her.
Hola
03-17-07, 07:58 PM the gloom from the epic level hand book would make the perfect ach-minion for shar, the things are just creepy and have a huge CR. Make a good big bad evil guy if you take it past 18th. But I love the suggestion about the fallen deva, make it a very charming devil...deva, fit the deception and creepyness bit.
Craig C.
03-17-07, 09:30 PM A hearty "Thank You" goes out to all of you for your most excellent contributions and suggestions. Wow. That's some great stuff!

I got a hold of Dragon magazine #353, Snow. Those Umbral Glooms are fantastic! Exactly the kind of creature I wanted as a Shar minion.

Shadow Demons, Gloom Golems, Murder of Crows (a new swarm), Nightshades, Ephemeral Hangemn, Half-Shadow templated creatures ... all good ideas. :devil:

***

Shemeska or anybody knowledgeable about the Lower Planes Outsiders - I have a question for you regarding their applicability to work for Shar:

What about the Neutral Evil Demodands from the Fiend Folio (Farastu, Kelubar, and Shator)?
helicopter
03-17-07, 11:40 PM It was a supplement called Do's and Don'ts for FR deities. Shar has Nightshades and Beholders listed as creatures she uses as well as Crows and Ravens as animals that are sacred to her.
Download link =
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020504a

to avoid confusion, it's the FIRST of the two web enhancements for Faith & PAntheons.
Shemeska the Marauder
03-18-07, 12:22 AM Shemeska or anybody knowledgeable about the Lower Planes Outsiders - I have a question for you regarding their applicability to work for Shar:

What about the Neutral Evil Demodands from the Fiend Folio (Farastu, Kelubar, and Shator)?

The Demodands (gehreleths) will not serve anyone without the explicit approval of their own racial creator/god Apomps the Triple Aspected. Apomps was an exiled Baernaloth who created the demodands prior to the formation of the prime material plane, roughly at the same time that his kindred were creating the yugoloths. His creations were subtly tainted with chaos, and as a result of what his fellows regarded as blasphemy, he fled into self-imposed exile (likely causing the first incarnation of Carceri to form as a result of his actions and flight).

The demodands are all individualls created by Apomps, and link into a racial mind and pool of memory in constant communication with their god through a black obsidian triangle they each wear. On some level they're each virtual proxies of the Triple Aspected, vessels of his power and consciousness, and they're zealots that make the yugoloths' obsessions look like a mild quirky habit.

That said, Apomps has granted the service of some of his children to other gods. Specifically a pair of demodands serve as proxies for the Gehennan deity Tsung-Chiang of the Chinese Pantheon, and it's possible that he allows this merely to give himself a pair of eyes near to the yugoloths of that plane, and he might have the same thing going on with one of the gods of the Gray Waste as well (And since Shar is there, he might let her borrow a Shator or two for that alone, but she might worry about running afoul of the 'loths of Khin-Oin for such an act).
Zsych
03-18-07, 09:02 AM I'd play more on Forgotten Secrets and such... ancient magic that mostly only she remembers finally being brought into play.

The Shadow-weave too, with its deepest secrets hidden by her. Might be time for a few of them to start showing.
helicopter
03-18-07, 01:26 PM I'd play more on Forgotten Secrets and such... ancient magic that mostly only she remembers finally being brought into play.

The Shadow-weave too, with its deepest secrets hidden by her. Might be time for a few of them to start showing.that's an interesting angle.

Perhaps channelling those Forgotten Secrets via a Shade who is a Truenamer (the newish core class from Tome of Magic). If you don't want to use the Truenamer due to its rather obtuse and sub-optimal game mechanics, you can use a Divine Oracle PrC based spellcaster. One who is steeped heavy into divination magic such as a Cloistered Cleric (UA) who gets the free Knowledge domain or an arcane Diviner
Craig C.
03-18-07, 10:30 PM More helpful and insightful replies. Thanks to everybody! :tiphat:

Shemeska - I appreciate the detailed response to my specific inquiry. I can see that my love of Demodands does not come close to trumping your sagacious knowledge of said creatures. :teach: That whole "hive mind" cultural engineering aspect of Apomps is something I was not aware of - and I bet that I'm missing that information from certain 2E Planescape sourcebooks (all my references for Demodands are in 3E).

In fact, you gave me a very interesting avenue to pursue regarding some plot structuring for my campaign's higher level of play. Specifically that of Shar courting the favour of Apomps ... and succeeding. :devil:
Mad Mage
03-18-07, 10:54 PM This is what I came up with for Shar a while back.

Shar

Herald: Nightwalker
Allies: Shadow Mastiff, Greater Shadow, Nightwing

Then again, I made this entry in my Heralds & Allies thread back in 2005, when I didn't have as many books as I had now. Still, as far as any given outsider or divine servants for whatever purpose, a lot of what's suggested works.
creepy drifter
03-19-07, 12:44 PM That was a great document, Mad Mage.

For the OP, I would grab your Tome of Magic book and apply some of the Shadowcaster [a new alternate core class] levels to whatever creatures you choose. The Child of Night, Master of Shadow, Shadowblade, and Noctumancer PrCs [from the same book] are also ideal for what you are looking for.
Wire
03-19-07, 06:42 PM I was just reading my Cormyr sourcebook that I got in the mail today. Boy howdy - lots of information about Sharran minions. Including stuff like Displacer Serpents.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
03-20-07, 03:39 PM Looks like the OP's campaign is not too far off from the current FR Shar based events as per the Cormy book (mentioned by Wire up above)
Book
03-21-07, 12:22 PM I recall too, that Shar likes to use the creatures known as darktentacles. To convert them into outsiders, maybe go with the fiendish template or seomthing.
helicopter
03-22-07, 10:24 AM I was just reading my Cormyr sourcebook that I got in the mail today. Boy howdy - lots of information about Sharran minions. Including stuff like Displacer Serpents.Yeah, it looks like Shar is the HOT deity of the moment. Lots and lots of threads as of late on the Keeper of Secrets.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
03-24-07, 12:17 PM There's past precident for Shar purchasing the services of yugoloths (there's an arcanaloth in The Black Bouquet). They share her alignment, her divine domain is located on the Gray Waste, and despite the 'loth racial disdain for deities, if you offer enough, they'll nominally work on your behalf.Just read that book (B. Bouquet) - very cool. And I can definitely see the interest and applicability that Shar would have in renting out yugoloths for her agendas.
DavidBedlam
03-25-07, 09:49 AM I was just reading my Tome of Magic and while I was looking at the Dark Creature template, I spotted something interesting:

"Dark" is an aquired or inherited template that can be added to any creature

Emphasis mine. Also:

Alignment: Usually one step different from the base creature, rarely good.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? :) Take a devil/demon, add the template to it, and cause it's alignment to shift to Neutral Evil. Since it's a template that could be aquired, it's possible that on the Plane of Shadow Shar could have minions turning recruited/captured fiends into Dark Creatures bound to her will.

Fun stuff, I'm sure you will agree.
pale_enchantress
03-26-07, 04:15 AM Id say night hags would deffinetly be a favored minion of shar.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
03-27-07, 04:48 PM :smirk: David, that's a great idea. Dark templated Baatezu and Tanari would be a great "stealing" coup for Shar. It would probably net her some more enemies amongst the lords and princes of the Abyss and Nine Hells, but if Shar took advantage of such fiend "conversions" quickly and in the short-term, her power base addition may make those lords and princes think twice about seeking retribution or revenge for such acts.
Wire
04-08-07, 08:32 AM just wanted to mention -
I got a lot of great ideas from this thread. Thanks to Craig C. and the others who posted all these great ideas!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Craig C. 03-16-07, 12:55 PM	I'm in the process of creating my own Forgotten Realms campaign arc that features a significant waxing of Shar's power and some large-scale power grab attempts by her and her clergy. The campaign will be running from 6th to 18th level in play. I come to you experts for some assistance on finding the most appropriate Evil Outsiders that would mesh well in working with Shar's clergy to expand her influence and work towards her ultimate goal in the snuffing out of existence as we know it. These Evil Outsiders will come about via her clerics use of Planar Binding and Planar Ally spells, as well as some custom-made magic items and rituals. All of the WotC 3.0/3.5 D&D evil outsiders are open for consideration. So are creative uses of template-applied creatures (Fiendish, Half-Fiendish, Shadow Creature, Fiend of Possession, etc.). Since I am not really-well versed in the type of Evil Outsiders that Shar has historically/traditionally used in the past, any help you can provide on that angle is helpful as well. I'm having a challenged time thinking of good creatures for this project. Primarily because of the dearth of Neutral Evil creatures who share her unique take on dogma and destiny. Thanks for your help! :tiphat:
Optimystik 03-16-07, 02:14 PM	I don't have too much literature on her so I can't provide specifics, but here are a couple of ideas: She lives on the plane of shadow, so I wouldn't see her summoning too many denizens of other deity's planes, e.g. Fury's Heart, Demonweb Pits. Her status as Neutral Evil doesn't make her opposed to Chaotic or Lawful outsiders as followers - quite the opposite in fact. Rather, it represents her lack of interest in her followers' underlying motivation so long as they further her cause in some way. So she would have no qualms about summoning both tanar'ri and baatezu (demons and devils). Having said that, the higher-level baddies and foozles the PCs end up facing (particularly any avatars/manifestations of her) should probably be female, share her alignment, and be related to some form of shadow/darkness theme. You probaably already have that planned but I thought it deserved mentioning anyway. In short I think you're limiting yourself unnecessarily by trying to find Neutral Evil servants for her clergy. Most forms of neutrality, particularly Shar's, represent more a lack of interest in extreme viewpoints than an actual focus on balance between them. This is particularly true if her situation is about to become as desperate as you describe.
Snow Savant 03-16-07, 02:29 PM	Optimystik brings up some excellent points. Her status as Neutral Evil doesn't make her opposed to Chaotic or Lawful outsiders as followers - quite the opposite in fact. Rather, it represents her lack of interest in her followers' underlying motivation so long as they further her cause in some way. So she would have no qualms about summoning both tanar'ri and baatezu (demons and devils).That's true. Although I think that any ultra-powerful outsiders that work for her and her clergy at higher level play ... would better serve her goals if they bought in to some of her tenets. They'd also be more manageable and less resource-intensive than powerful fiends who are only in it for mercenary means or angrily locked-in via calling magicks. ** Also Craig, if you look at Dragon Magazine #353 on pg. 70, there is an awesome high level outsider who are considered some of Shar's most valued servitors. They are called Umbral Glooms (CR 11, 10 HD), and their game mechanics are an accurate reflection of what you would expect in a powerful/influential Shar minion. You are also on track with the various conversion templates that make creatures more associated with the Plane of Shadow. I don't have a list of them at the moment, so I'll look into that unless someone beats me to it.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-16-07, 03:00 PM	There's past precident for Shar purchasing the services of yugoloths (there's an arcanaloth in The Black Bouquet). They share her alignment, her divine domain is located on the Gray Waste, and despite the 'loth racial disdain for deities, if you offer enough, they'll nominally work on your behalf. But I can easily see Shar cultivating allies amongst the Abyssal Lords and Baatezu nobles, gaining fiends from both races on loan effectively, so long as her use of them doesn't end up conflicting with the overall goals of the fiends, or the specific goals of the archfiend loaning her their servitors. It's in her best interest even if their particular brand of evil they represent doesn't follow her own, because let's face it, it's not in any gods best interest to rely on yugoloths. More than just buying loyalty from the various major fiend races, I can see Shar having servitors crafted from her own petitioners in forms unique to her outlook, similar to how Set crafts the 'Minions of Set' from his own petitioners rather than rely on the Baatezu (especially given him being on the outs, politically speaking, with at least one Lord of the 9).
Stigger 03-16-07, 03:42 PM	Given F&A's description of her lackeys as 'mysterious shadow monsters', I'd go with Shemeska's crafted petitioner theory over everything else.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-16-07, 04:18 PM	Given F&A's description of her lackeys as 'mysterious shadow monsters', I'd go with Shemeska's crafted petitioner theory over everything else. Yeah. This would give you a good opportunity to go crazy with using those fiendish and shadow themed templates on non-outsiders that seem more thematically-attuned to Shar.
Soltares 03-16-07, 07:06 PM	Having Shar served by formerly good aligned creatures that have 'fallen into despair' would be awesome. Change the alignment descriptors around, reverse some of the spells (cures to inflicts, prot from evil to prot from good), and perhaps a shadow creature template, and a pale skinned gaunt fallen Deva in tattered finery would be a scary 'demon of Shar.' Otherwise, yeah, throwing shadow / fiendish templates on appropriate feeling critters, like Ogre Magi, or Half-Shadow Dragon Cloud Giants, could be fun.
Paix 03-16-07, 08:28 PM	There are those shadow fiends, that devour both the body and the soul of their victims. They would match Shar's ethos perfectly. I cannot remember their exact name however. They inhabited a particular layer of the Abyss and I remember them appearing in one of the Sembia novels. In the 2e version there was the paraelemental plane of the Void and one of the creatures there, was essentialy a kind of 'black hole' on legs. Again it would match her nihilistic approach if you have access to the Planescape monstrous compendium IV and do not mind a bit of updating. Nightshades, nightwalkers and similar shadow creatures are bound to have found their way into her graces too.
Rude 03-16-07, 09:41 PM	Gloom Golems, Shadow Templated anything, Shadow Demons (I had a high level campaign with a high level Shadow Adept PC. He had recieved dream visions from Rhixali, Princess of Shadow Demons [I believe from the Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement]. She was allied with Shar)I've used vampire clerics of Shar. If they hit epic levels, you can use the Gloom from the Epic Level Handbook somehow. Check the Tome of Magic if you have it I think there are some shadow creatures in there too.
Book 03-16-07, 10:08 PM	Indeed, Rude's suggestion about ToM "shadow" creatures are right on target. Note: Ephemeral Hangman, Khayal Genie, & Shadow Elementals are all perfect for being Shar minions. As other's stated above, template them if you feel they need more tweaking to be Shar-friendly. Like the various Shadow themed templates (does anyone have a list of these 3 or 4 templates and their locations?), the Dark Creature template in ToM is also a good candidate for use. Oh yes - in the newish Monster Manual IV, check out the Skiurid on page 126. It's a shadow-born version of a squirrel (!!) that specifically states that they share a "mystical connection with Shar". Awesome! They are only CR 1/2, so for your lowest level of play (6th level), you'll need a bunch of them. Last, the MotP book has the 3 Ephemera creatures - Dusk Beast, Ecalypse, and Umbral Banyan. They look, feel, smell, and taste like Shar minions. :devil:
The Simbul 03-16-07, 10:15 PM	The Shades are Outsiders.
Wire 03-17-07, 06:18 PM	One of the older 3.X Web Enhancements has a list of preferred avatars and Planar Ally selections for each of the Faerunian deities. Does anybody remember which Web Enhancement that is ???
Link182 03-17-07, 07:07 PM	It was a supplement called Do's and Don'ts for FR deities. Shar has Nightshades and Beholders listed as creatures she uses as well as Crows and Ravens as animals that are sacred to her.
Hola 03-17-07, 07:58 PM	the gloom from the epic level hand book would make the perfect ach-minion for shar, the things are just creepy and have a huge CR. Make a good big bad evil guy if you take it past 18th. But I love the suggestion about the fallen deva, make it a very charming devil...deva, fit the deception and creepyness bit.
Craig C. 03-17-07, 09:30 PM	A hearty "Thank You" goes out to all of you for your most excellent contributions and suggestions. Wow. That's some great stuff! I got a hold of Dragon magazine #353, Snow. Those Umbral Glooms are fantastic! Exactly the kind of creature I wanted as a Shar minion. Shadow Demons, Gloom Golems, Murder of Crows (a new swarm), Nightshades, Ephemeral Hangemn, Half-Shadow templated creatures ... all good ideas. :devil: *** Shemeska or anybody knowledgeable about the Lower Planes Outsiders - I have a question for you regarding their applicability to work for Shar: What about the Neutral Evil Demodands from the Fiend Folio (Farastu, Kelubar, and Shator)?
helicopter 03-17-07, 11:40 PM	It was a supplement called Do's and Don'ts for FR deities. Shar has Nightshades and Beholders listed as creatures she uses as well as Crows and Ravens as animals that are sacred to her. Download link = http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020504a to avoid confusion, it's the FIRST of the two web enhancements for Faith & PAntheons.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-18-07, 12:22 AM	Shemeska or anybody knowledgeable about the Lower Planes Outsiders - I have a question for you regarding their applicability to work for Shar: What about the Neutral Evil Demodands from the Fiend Folio (Farastu, Kelubar, and Shator)? The Demodands (gehreleths) will not serve anyone without the explicit approval of their own racial creator/god Apomps the Triple Aspected. Apomps was an exiled Baernaloth who created the demodands prior to the formation of the prime material plane, roughly at the same time that his kindred were creating the yugoloths. His creations were subtly tainted with chaos, and as a result of what his fellows regarded as blasphemy, he fled into self-imposed exile (likely causing the first incarnation of Carceri to form as a result of his actions and flight). The demodands are all individualls created by Apomps, and link into a racial mind and pool of memory in constant communication with their god through a black obsidian triangle they each wear. On some level they're each virtual proxies of the Triple Aspected, vessels of his power and consciousness, and they're zealots that make the yugoloths' obsessions look like a mild quirky habit. That said, Apomps has granted the service of some of his children to other gods. Specifically a pair of demodands serve as proxies for the Gehennan deity Tsung-Chiang of the Chinese Pantheon, and it's possible that he allows this merely to give himself a pair of eyes near to the yugoloths of that plane, and he might have the same thing going on with one of the gods of the Gray Waste as well (And since Shar is there, he might let her borrow a Shator or two for that alone, but she might worry about running afoul of the 'loths of Khin-Oin for such an act).
Zsych 03-18-07, 09:02 AM	I'd play more on Forgotten Secrets and such... ancient magic that mostly only she remembers finally being brought into play. The Shadow-weave too, with its deepest secrets hidden by her. Might be time for a few of them to start showing.
helicopter 03-18-07, 01:26 PM	I'd play more on Forgotten Secrets and such... ancient magic that mostly only she remembers finally being brought into play. The Shadow-weave too, with its deepest secrets hidden by her. Might be time for a few of them to start showing.that's an interesting angle. Perhaps channelling those Forgotten Secrets via a Shade who is a Truenamer (the newish core class from Tome of Magic). If you don't want to use the Truenamer due to its rather obtuse and sub-optimal game mechanics, you can use a Divine Oracle PrC based spellcaster. One who is steeped heavy into divination magic such as a Cloistered Cleric (UA) who gets the free Knowledge domain or an arcane Diviner
Craig C. 03-18-07, 10:30 PM	More helpful and insightful replies. Thanks to everybody! :tiphat: Shemeska - I appreciate the detailed response to my specific inquiry. I can see that my love of Demodands does not come close to trumping your sagacious knowledge of said creatures. :teach: That whole "hive mind" cultural engineering aspect of Apomps is something I was not aware of - and I bet that I'm missing that information from certain 2E Planescape sourcebooks (all my references for Demodands are in 3E). In fact, you gave me a very interesting avenue to pursue regarding some plot structuring for my campaign's higher level of play. Specifically that of Shar courting the favour of Apomps ... and succeeding. :devil:
Mad Mage 03-18-07, 10:54 PM	This is what I came up with for Shar a while back. Shar Herald: Nightwalker Allies: Shadow Mastiff, Greater Shadow, Nightwing Then again, I made this entry in my Heralds & Allies thread back in 2005, when I didn't have as many books as I had now. Still, as far as any given outsider or divine servants for whatever purpose, a lot of what's suggested works.
creepy drifter 03-19-07, 12:44 PM	That was a great document, Mad Mage. For the OP, I would grab your Tome of Magic book and apply some of the Shadowcaster [a new alternate core class] levels to whatever creatures you choose. The Child of Night, Master of Shadow, Shadowblade, and Noctumancer PrCs [from the same book] are also ideal for what you are looking for.
Wire 03-19-07, 06:42 PM	I was just reading my Cormyr sourcebook that I got in the mail today. Boy howdy - lots of information about Sharran minions. Including stuff like Displacer Serpents.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-20-07, 03:39 PM	Looks like the OP's campaign is not too far off from the current FR Shar based events as per the Cormy book (mentioned by Wire up above)
Book 03-21-07, 12:22 PM	I recall too, that Shar likes to use the creatures known as darktentacles. To convert them into outsiders, maybe go with the fiendish template or seomthing.
helicopter 03-22-07, 10:24 AM	I was just reading my Cormyr sourcebook that I got in the mail today. Boy howdy - lots of information about Sharran minions. Including stuff like Displacer Serpents.Yeah, it looks like Shar is the HOT deity of the moment. Lots and lots of threads as of late on the Keeper of Secrets.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-24-07, 12:17 PM	There's past precident for Shar purchasing the services of yugoloths (there's an arcanaloth in The Black Bouquet). They share her alignment, her divine domain is located on the Gray Waste, and despite the 'loth racial disdain for deities, if you offer enough, they'll nominally work on your behalf.Just read that book (B. Bouquet) - very cool. And I can definitely see the interest and applicability that Shar would have in renting out yugoloths for her agendas.
DavidBedlam 03-25-07, 09:49 AM	I was just reading my Tome of Magic and while I was looking at the Dark Creature template, I spotted something interesting: "Dark" is an aquired or inherited template that can be added to any creature Emphasis mine. Also: Alignment: Usually one step different from the base creature, rarely good. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? :) Take a devil/demon, add the template to it, and cause it's alignment to shift to Neutral Evil. Since it's a template that could be aquired, it's possible that on the Plane of Shadow Shar could have minions turning recruited/captured fiends into Dark Creatures bound to her will. Fun stuff, I'm sure you will agree.
pale_enchantress 03-26-07, 04:15 AM	Id say night hags would deffinetly be a favored minion of shar.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-27-07, 04:48 PM	:smirk: David, that's a great idea. Dark templated Baatezu and Tanari would be a great "stealing" coup for Shar. It would probably net her some more enemies amongst the lords and princes of the Abyss and Nine Hells, but if Shar took advantage of such fiend "conversions" quickly and in the short-term, her power base addition may make those lords and princes think twice about seeking retribution or revenge for such acts.
Wire 04-08-07, 08:32 AM	just wanted to mention - I got a lot of great ideas from this thread. Thanks to Craig C. and the others who posted all these great ideas!