Post/Author/DateTime	Post
First_Legion 08-10-07, 09:27 AM	Is it possible for a character to worship both of these gods. It seems to me that Mask is out to get something from Shar or at least do something to her. Would he allow a cleric into his fold if she is already worshiping Shar, or would Shar allow one who worships Mask?
ShadezofDis 08-10-07, 10:08 AM	Is it possible for a character to worship both of these gods. It seems to me that Mask is out to get something from Shar or at least do something to her. Would he allow a cleric into his fold if she is already worshiping Shar, or would Shar allow one who worships Mask? Define the level of worship you're talking about. Are you saying a cleric of mask who offers prayer to shar in appropriate situations? Or vice verca? Or are you saying a cleric of shar trying to also be a cleric of mask? The first is absolutely fine and is actually the way 99% of the Realms work (ie. a cleric of Mystra will offer a prayer to Azuth when engaging in a particularly tough bit of spellcasting, or will offer a prayer to Tyr when in a situation where justice is heavily involved, etc) but the second doesn't have any canon support, so far as I know and I'd be hesitant to allow it as a DM.
Green Elven Vampire 08-10-07, 10:40 AM	Is it possible for a character to worship both of these gods. It seems to me that Mask is out to get something from Shar or at least do something to her. Would he allow a cleric into his fold if she is already worshiping Shar, or would Shar allow one who worships Mask? Actually, yes this can happen. It has happened before with a cannon NPC named Liriel Baenrae(sp). She's a drow princess who is a cleric/Wizard of Loth and Mystra and also courted by Eilestraee.
ShadezofDis 08-10-07, 10:57 AM	Actually, yes this can happen. It has happened before with a cannon NPC named Liriel Baenrae(sp). She's a drow princess who is a cleric/Wizard of Loth and Mystra and also courted by Eilestraee. That's right, though I'd want to check Elaine's candlekeep scrolls to see what she has to say about who was granting spells to Liriel at what time. ie. Was it "Cleric 1 of Lolth, gained Cleric 2 still worshiping Lolth, gained Cleric 3 and stopped worshiping Lolth and started worshiping Mystra" or was it "Cleric 3 of Lolth/Mystra". The latter I would find hard to swallow, unless it was a sort of competition between Lolth and Mystra for the follower. Actually, I'll see if I can find something about this on candlekeep right now.
First_Legion 08-10-07, 12:18 PM	If it is at all possible I would like her to have both of them as her gods. Say she prayed to Mask for spells and he gave her all he wanted she would then pray to Shar and get more spells. Maybe some of them are the same but some of the others would be different. She could have healing spells from both of them, I know that each god gives some spells that are alike and some that are different, so she would have both.
ShadezofDis 08-10-07, 12:29 PM	If it is at all possible I would like her to have both of them as her gods. Say she prayed to Mask for spells and he gave her all he wanted she would then pray to Shar and get more spells. Maybe some of them are the same but some of the others would be different. She could have healing spells from both of them, I know that each god gives some spells that are alike and some that are different, so she would have both. So are you just looking for an expanded domain list? Or are you going for something like; Level 1: Cleric of Mask 1 Level 2: Cleric of Mask 1/Cleric of Shar 1 Level 3: Cleric of Mask 2/Cleric of Shar 1 ie. different caster progressions (as if you had a cleric/wizard, but separating the two cleric spell lists) Or are you going for something like; Level 1: Cleric of Mask and Shar 1 Level 2: Cleric of Mask and Shar 2 ie. joined caster progression but with access to both gods domains
First_Legion 08-10-07, 01:59 PM	The character would have access to both the domains of Mask and Shar. She will be accepted into both churches. Besides being a thief she is also a monk. I haven't yet decided if she is going to be a member of the Order of Shadows or a member or Shar's monks, rather the Monks of the Dark Moon or Darkness. I doubt she could be a member of both, but that is a way to go. She will alreayd be unquie with having two gods to worship.
ShadezofDis 08-10-07, 02:06 PM	The character would have access to both the domains of Mask and Shar. She will be accepted into both churches. Besides being a thief she is also a monk. I haven't yet decided if she is going to be a member of the Order of Shadows or a member or Shar's monks, rather the Monks of the Dark Moon or Darkness. I doubt she could be a member of both, but that is a way to go. She will alreayd be unquie with having two gods to worship. Ummm. . . well, first off, almost all the people of Faerun worship more than one god/goddess. If your character isn't a cleric (or other divine casting class) then there is nothing preventing you to worship Mask and Shar and Waulkeen and to pray to Umberlee when taking a voyage or pray to Sylvanus when traveling in the woods or whatever. So is your character a divine caster? As for being a member of the Order of Shadows and a member of a Sharan order, well, that depends on the orders themselves, AFAIK Mask or Shar wouldn't care.
ShadezofDis 08-10-07, 02:22 PM	Actually, yes this can happen. It has happened before with a cannon NPC named Liriel Baenrae(sp). She's a drow princess who is a cleric/Wizard of Loth and Mystra and also courted by Eilestraee. Actually, after looking into this a bit more it seems that you're not quite correct. http://www.elainecunningham.com/Why%20did%20(Windwalker%20Characters)%20 die Is Elaine's site and that's a write up of her thoughts on Fyodor's death which includes the statement that Liriel isn't a priestess of Eilistraee. I'm not sure where you get the idea that she's a priestess of Mystra, could you explain that part?
First_Legion 08-10-07, 10:12 PM	[QUOTE=ShadezofDis;13369736]Ummm. . . well, first off, almost all the people of Faerun worship more than one god/goddess. If your character isn't a cleric (or other divine casting class) then there is nothing preventing you to worship Mask and Shar and Waulkeen and to pray to Umberlee when taking a voyage or pray to Sylvanus when traveling in the woods or whatever. So is your character a divine caster?[QUOTE] I know that a charcter can pray to any god. But my charcter does use divine magic. She will get it from both Mask and Shar, she carries both of these gods holy symbols so she can pray to them and recieve their spells.
GothicDan 08-10-07, 10:51 PM	I think Shar in particularly is too jealous of a deity to allow this. With other gods, I think it'd be possible (Mystra/Azuth, Lliira/Sune, Tyr/Illmater/Torm, etc.), but not when Shar's involved.
Green Elven Vampire 08-10-07, 11:12 PM	Actually, after looking into this a bit more it seems that you're not quite correct. http://www.elainecunningham.com/Why%20did%20(Windwalker%20Characters)%20 die Is Elaine's site and that's a write up of her thoughts on Fyodor's death which includes the statement that Liriel isn't a priestess of Eilistraee. I'm not sure where you get the idea that she's a priestess of Mystra, could you explain that part? Sure thing. There is a new book antholgy by Elaine Cunningham that has a short story that takes place like 9 years after the events in Starlight and Shadows. It states very clearly that she's now a cleric of Mystra. I also never said she was a cleric of the Dark Dancer, but that she was being smiled on by her.
MerrikCale 08-10-07, 11:12 PM	I think Shar in particularly is too jealous of a deity to allow this. With other gods, I think it'd be possible (Mystra/Azuth, Lliira/Sune, Tyr/Illmater/Torm, etc.), but not when Shar's involved. I agree. Doesn't Shar want Mask's portfolio in particular
GothicDan 08-10-07, 11:14 PM	It doesn't state as such specifically - she 'may want to subsume him' or some such. Frankly, I think her holding the Darkness portfolio makes that of Shadows almost superfluous, and she currently has bigger fish to fry. I could see her temporarily allying with Mask now and then, and using him mostly as the cat's paw, so to speak.
Telagaunt 08-11-07, 03:12 AM	I haven't read the novels of Liriel Baenre in a long while but I thought she just worshipped Lolth and Eilistraee? Technically in the novels she went back and forth with casting from their divine powers. I remember an old write up too WotC had up in archives where they said Lolth was her chosen deity. Anyway, AFAIK, maybe PHB2 changes this, you can only cast divine spells from 1 deity. Certainly you can have roleplaying where a character may be a cleric of Mask specifically, but still in a sense 'worship' Shar. Though.. Mask might get a tad mad :P And it wouldn't be uncommon (though maybe hard) for a priest of X deity pose as a deity of Y deity. Also I dont think you can do Cleric of Mask 1/Cleric of Shar 2 for example. Cleric levels stack. Just like a Necromancer can't then take levels in Abjuration. Though as a priest you can certainly change deities. I forget if Paladins need to select a deity, but if so, would be interesting if you could be Cleric 6 of Mystra/Paladin of Helm for example lol but if that is possible, more likely good-aligned deities would be more welcomed to that, than evil deities, or rival deities lol.
GothicDan 08-11-07, 03:25 AM	Paladins need a deity. In the Realms, deity worship doesn't work exactly as it does in core D&D. I'm sure allied/close deities would have no problem granting spells to a single Cleric. Ask Ed if you wish, but given the highly polytheistic nature of much of Faerun, I see doing so as a bit superfluous. In real life, many pagan holy people ('clerics') prayed to whatever god happened to hold sway over the area of interest they wanted divine aid in. This wasn't the case for all of them, for sure, but it wouldn't do much good asking Poseidon for aid if you were starving in a forest.
MerrikCale 08-11-07, 09:32 AM	It doesn't state as such specifically - she 'may want to subsume him' or some such. Frankly, I think her holding the Darkness portfolio makes that of Shadows almost superfluous, and she currently has bigger fish to fry. I could see her temporarily allying with Mask now and then, and using him mostly as the cat's paw, so to speak. We agree. I would see her wanting shadows though. I could see that really sticking to her craw
Alleran 08-11-07, 10:27 AM	I haven't read the novels of Liriel Baenre in a long while but I thought she just worshipped Lolth and Eilistraee? The short story "Answered Prayers" in Best of the Realms Book III clearly indicates that Liriel now worships Mystra and gains her spells from that particular source. And I can't see Shar being happy with a Cleric going to both her and Mask. She's too jealous to allow it, I think. Cases like Mystra/Azuth and the Triad are one thing, but I don't think this is one of those cases. I probably wouldn't allow it if I was the one DMing.
Bonzai 08-11-07, 01:59 PM	It does happen occasionally. Aside from the above example, there is one of the 7 sisters who is a Drow that is a chosen of Eilustrea and Mystra. Also there is a Cleric in the old Cult of the Dragon supplement that was a cleric of Talos, but actually got spells from Shar and Cyric.
1 ton ghost 08-11-07, 02:26 PM	1 patron deity only...for cleric anyway can offer as much lip service to the others you want though some discretion may be in order. don't want to **** of a god. john doe common lvl 1 pray to Chauntea for good harvest, thanks Ilmater for helping his wife through labor, pays respects/honors Kelemvor when she and baby die, beseaches Shar to help him forget and assuage his grief, takes to bottle and gambling and begs Tymora for "making it big" one night... if the shoe fits, where it.
GothicDan 08-11-07, 02:27 PM	I forgot that he got spells from Shar AND Cyric. So there's proof that it happens sometimes. I still think that Cyric is a LITTLE more acceptable than Mask, though (due to the Darkness vs. Shadows portfolios).
Mirtek 08-11-07, 02:52 PM	Well, such things usually only happen but then both gods have a very special interesst in this particular mortal. Such a mortal will never have a free live, he will always be forced to play his part in one special divine scheme or annother, having two deities always looking over his shoulder.
Meldread 08-12-07, 01:14 AM	There is away around this minor problem. Take the Heretic of the Faith feat (detailed in Power of Faerun), and have your character believe that Shar and Mask are in fact the same deity. You can easily have your character believe this by having them discover some ancient Netherese texts detailing the worship of Shar. (Check out Netheril Empire of Magic.) During that time she held most of Masks' portfolios. Alternatively, your character could have received visions from Shar revealing that she was Mask in an attempt to sway you to the heresy. It would be her attempt to spread the heresy through your character so that she could subsume Mask... or perhaps it could even be the truth! Either way this should mostly solve your problem.
1 ton ghost 08-12-07, 01:27 AM	damn, that is a good "out". i saw that Heretic feat in Powers, and it's pretty much a given if you're willing to drop a feat you get leeway. your theoretically interpretation was quite feasible/dramatic w/out too much cheese. as for shar and mask... -are the shades conflicted on that? given plane of shadow and respective portfolios between Shar and Mask and conflicting domains/portfolios -don't you need light on an obj. to make a shadowcast? or is it simply subsumed as, "shadow is dark, gets lumped w/ darknesss, etc."
MerrikCale 08-12-07, 01:11 PM	There is away around this minor problem. Take the Heretic of the Faith feat (detailed in Power of Faerun), and have your character believe that Shar and Mask are in fact the same deity. You can easily have your character believe this by having them discover some ancient Netherese texts detailing the worship of Shar. (Check out Netheril Empire of Magic.) During that time she held most of Masks' portfolios. Alternatively, your character could have received visions from Shar revealing that she was Mask in an attempt to sway you to the heresy. It would be her attempt to spread the heresy through your character so that she could subsume Mask... or perhaps it could even be the truth! Either way this should mostly solve your problem. bravo. well done
First_Legion 08-14-07, 07:14 AM	Thanks for all the help guys. That last bit could do the trick, I can even see Shar posing as two gods just to get more worshippers and to spread a little bit of chaos in the realms. I mean Mask is always hidden behind his mask so he could actually be Shar without any of "his" people realizing it. It would work because my thief would be working for Shar but when Mask hears that my character believes that he is Shar. He will take an interest in her to prove that he is his own person, but that will take my character some time to understand if she ever does.
Meldread 08-15-07, 05:13 PM	Alright I want to make clear what the feat actually does. Here is a quick copy and paste from Powers of Faerun. I love the book and suggest everyone get a copy, it details other ways of playing the game aside from your normal hack and slash. A must for any DM and great for players as well! Heretic of the Faith You stray significantly from the teachings of your faith. Prerequisite: Patron deity and either divine spellcasting ability or code of conduct class ability. Benefit: You can grossly violate your deity's code of conduct, but not your class alignment restriction, without risk of loss of spells or class abilities. If you are a cleric, your alignment can be two steps away from your respective deity's alignment instead of just one. (In other words, you can violate your deity's alignment restrictions by one extra step.) You can gain levels without atoning (see the atonement spell description). However, you are in no way exempt from excommunication or immune to divine retribution from your deity or his servants. In fact, your actions invite the highest level of divine scrutiny. If you have access to domains, you can exchange any one domain you already selected for another domain outside those normally available to your faith. The new domain must be consistent with the tenets of your heresy (as adjudicated by the DM). Likewise, you can exchange your favored weapon and weapon of the deity spell effect for another consistent with the tenets of your heresy (as adjudicated by the DM). Taking this feat automatically prompts a Leadership Check. All cohorts or followers who are members of your faith either agree to the heresy or are lost. Moreover, upon your death you are judged one of the False (see page 259 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) unless your deity specifically intervenes on your behalf with Kelemvor. Without the use of a miracle or wish spell, this does not happen unless your heresies are adopted by the deity and the faith as a whole. It is theoretically possible such an intervention could occur long after your death, but such cases are vanishingly rare. Normal: You grossly violate your deity's code of conduct, you risk losing spells and class abilities until you atone (see the atonement spell description and Sins and Penance, page 232 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting). Now, if I were the DM here is what things might look like... Cult of the Masked Darkness The cult was formed by a fallen priest of Mask who later embraced Shar as his patron deity. Seeking vengeance for Mask turning his back on him, the priest began to spread the lie that Mask was really Shar. There were several high profile converts to the cult, which Shar embraced, however the Church of Mask was ultimately successful in driving the cult into hiding. Even so, it has spread silently throughout Faerun over the past few years as Shar slowly encroaches upon the territory of Mask. It is Shar's ultimate goal that through this heresy she will make the lie a reality, and get revenge upon Mask for daring to hold the portfolio of Shadows. Heretical Portfolios: Caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, shadows, thievery, thieves, the Underdark Worshipers: Anarchists, assassins, avengers, beggars, criminals, rogues, shadow adepts, shadow dancers Cleric Alignments: LE, NE, CE Heretical Domains: Cavern, Darkness, Evil, Knowledge, Luck, Trickery Heretical Favored Weapons: "Stealthwhisper" (longsword) OR "The Disk of Night" (chakram) Heretical Dogma: Reveal secrets only to my faithful, and know that all that occurs in darkness and shadow is in the purview of Shar. The darkness is a time to act, not wait. Quench the light of the moon (agents and items of Selune) whenever you find it, and take to the shadows when you cannot prevail. Stealth and weariness are virtues, as are glibness and the skill to say one thing and mean another, twisting a situation to your advantage. Wealth and power rightfully belongs to those who can acquire it. Honesty is for fools, but apparent honesty is valuable. Make every truth seem plausible, and never lie when you can tell the truth but leave a mistaken impression. Subtlety is everything. Manipulation is better than force, especially when you can make people think they have done something on their own initiative. Never do the obvious except to conceal something else. Trust in the darkness, for the bright way makes you an easy target. Consorting with the faithful of good deities is a sin except in business dealings or to corrupt them from their beliefs. Obey ranking clergy unless it would result in your own death. So what is different? Well first of all Shar now has the portfolios and domains of Mask added to her own. The alignment requirements for both deities was the same so they remain the same for the heresy. Those who embrace the heresy can also use either deities favored weapon. The dogma is obviously a combination of both deities, but it deemphasizes the focus on wealth that Mask had and the nihilistic aspects of Shars dogma so they mesh better. I would play the cult as small and organized into cells just like the Sharran cult. For whatever region the group is playing in there would be one base for the cult there and they would want to expand. This gives the group huge plot hooks and ready made conflicts. How do followers of Mask in the area feel? How do Sharrans feel? How does the general population feel? It lends itself to seriously evil thieves guilds, political intrigue… hell it has the works! Almost any type of major plot hook you can imagine for an evil group can be shaped to fit the cult. Since the original poster also talked about monk orders for both deities I decided that the cult might have a small order of monks of their own. I haven't play tested the PrC but I believe it should be relatively balanced. The requirement is high but in essence the order is a group of highly specialized monk assassins. They are very focused on disappearing, remaining unseen, reappearing out of nowhere, and relentlessly hunting down their targets. They make the perfect assassin to send after a group and could be a fun character to play as a PC. Order of the Shadowed Hand Hit Die: d6 Requirements To qualify to become a Shadowed Hand, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment: Lawful Evil Skills: Disguise 5 ranks, Hide 10 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks, Jump 5 ranks Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Heretic of the Faith Patron Deity: Shar (Cult of the Masked Darkness) Special: The character must be trained by another Shadowed Hand and be in good standing with the Order. Class Skills: The Shadowed Hand's class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Notes: The attack bonus, save progression, unarmed combat damage, unarmored speed bonus, and AC bonus progresses the same as for the Monk Class. 1st: Darkvision, Sneak Attack +1d6, Paralyzing Attack, Shadowed Disguise, Shadowed Foot 2nd: Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Hide in Plain Sight, Shadowed Alignment 3rd: Sneak Attack +2d6, Darkness 4th: Slippery Mind, Improved Uncanny Dodge 5th: Sneak Attack +3d6, Shadowed Existence 6th: Defensive Roll, Shadow Jump 20 feet 7th: Sneak Attack +4d6 8th: Shadow Jump 40 feet 9th: Sneak Attack +5d6, Improved Evasion 10th: Shadow Jump 80 feet, Death Bond Class Features All of the following are features of the Shadowed Hands prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shadowed Hands do not gain proficiency with any new weapons or armor. Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th). If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack. Paralyzing Attack: If a Shadowed Hand studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with an unarmed strike that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of paralyzing the target. While studying the victim, the Shadowed Hand can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the Shadowed Hand or recognize the Shadowed Hand as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the Shadowed Hand’s class level + the Shadowed Hand’s Wis modifier) against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the Shadowed Hand. If the victim's saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the Shadowed Hand has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the paralyzing attack within the next 3 rounds. If a paralyzing attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the Shadowed Hand does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another paralyzing attack. Shadowed Disguise (Ex): You have mastered the ability of blending in and seeming non-conspicuous. When attempting to disguise yourself or your clothing, armor, weapons or equipment you gain a +5 bonus on the Disguise Check. Shadowed Foot (Su): You have the frightening ability to pass an area without leaving a trace. You can move through any type of terrain and leave neither footprints nor scent. Tracking you through nonmagical means is impossible. Darkness (Su): You have learned to summon forth an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area showed in this magical darkness. You are unaffected by the darkness and can see normally. If the darkness is conjured onto a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed. Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area. The summoned darkness counters or dispels any light spell of 5th level or lower. The summoned darkness can be called once per day and will last five minutes per Shadowed Hand level. Shadowed Alignment (Su): Your mastery of the darkness has extended to hide the dark stain of your very soul. Your alignment is concealed from all forms of divination. Shadowed Existence (Su): You have mastered the ability of existing undetected. You are no longer detectable by divination spells and magic items. If a divination is attempted against you or an item in your possession, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 15 + your Shadowed Hand level. Death Bond (Su): Whenever you intend to kill someone you have the ability to forge a Death Bond with the target. From that point forward no matter where the target runs you will be able to find it. You will not know the exact location or distance, but you will know which direction to find your target. You will also gain the ability to go without food, water or rest for long periods so long as you are searching for your target. However, once a bond is forged it cannot be removed. For as long as the target lives you will sense its presence and feel compelled to track it down and kill it. It does not matter how long it takes. You are effectively under a compulsion to kill the target, but you may ignore it for forty-eight hours before you must begin the hunt again. If you attempt to ignore it longer than that you will be unable to sleep, and your mind will constantly be focused upon your target. A week after ignoring it you take a -2 penalty to each of your ability scores. Each day, another -2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -8. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after you resume your hunt. Nothing can prevent you from finding your target outside of divine intervention. If your target dies through other means you will instantly know the moment it happens. If your target leaves the plane you are currently on you will know the moment it happens, but will not know to which plane they fled. Shar or one of her senior clergy may compel the use of your death bond onto a target without your permission, but otherwise you must willingly forge the bond. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Shadowed Hand retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.) If you gained uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below). Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Shadowed Hand can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the Shadowed Hand. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the Shadowed Hand can flank him (and thus sneak attack him). If you gain uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank you. Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A Shadowed Hand can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a Shadowed Hand can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. Evasion (Ex): A Shadowed Hand can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Shadowed Hand is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Shadowed Hand does not gain the benefit of evasion. Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion (see above). A Shadowed Hand takes no damage at all on successful saving throws against attacks that allow a Reflex saving throw for half damage. What’s more, she takes only half damage even if she fails her saving throw. Darkvision (Su): A Shadowed Hand can see in the dark as though she were permanently under the effect of a darkvision spell. Shadow Jump (Su): A Shadowed Hand gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow. A Shadowed Hand can use this ability once each day, but he need not use it all in a single jump. The minimum distance that can be jumped is ten feet each time the ability is used. Defensive Roll (Ex): Once per day, when a Shadowed Hand would be reduced to 0 hit points or less by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), she can attempt to roll with the damage. She makes a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt) and, if successful, takes only half damage from the blow. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll. If she is in a situation that would deny her any Dexterity bonus to AC, she can’t attempt a defensive roll. Slippery Mind (Ex): If a Shadowed Hand is affected by an enchantment and fails her saving throw, 1 round later she can attempt her saving throw again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw. If it fails as well, the spell’s effects occur normally. I love heresies and I'm totally going to use this.
MarkHall 08-15-07, 05:56 PM	So, Paladins of Sune essentially have the Heretic of Faith feat as a free class feature?
Meldread 08-15-07, 07:59 PM	No. "You can grossly violate your deity's code of conduct, but not your class alignment restriction, without risk of loss of spells or class abilities. " The bold is for emphasis added. Sune is just "special" in that she can have Paladin's even though Chaotic Good deities typically do not have them. There is nothing heretical involved, although that does not mean they can't develop a particular heresy to make her religion more palatable toward their chosen profession.
Larloch_the_Ultra_Lich 08-15-07, 09:00 PM	I forgot that he got spells from Shar AND Cyric. So there's proof that it happens sometimes. I still think that Cyric is a LITTLE more acceptable than Mask, though (due to the Darkness vs. Shadows portfolios). Vraggen from the Erevis cale book 1 also worshiped both Cyric and Shar, but was a shadow adept, not a cleric. Hard to remember exactly,
Green Elven Vampire 08-17-07, 12:39 AM	Vraggen from the Erevis cale book 1 also worshiped both Cyric and Shar, but was a shadow adept, not a cleric. Hard to remember exactly, Ummm... Shadow Adept PrC applies to both Wizards and Clerics! You could be a Shadow Adept Cleric or a Shadow Adept Bard if you like. There is no Arcane or Divine restrictions to the Shadow Adept.