Spellfire [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Spellfire [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonGhoula
07-03-07, 10:42 AM So im starting a Faerun campaign, and I would like to use the spellfire wielder feat, but I can't decide how to randomize the chances of someone in the party having the feat, and i would kind of like to have it myself......(im playing a character too, otherwise there wouldn't be enough players). Does anyone know of any way to randomize the approval of this feat without saying, "you get this, and you don't" ?
Alac Luin
07-03-07, 11:07 AM First, if you are running a character with the party do not give them Spellfire, it will lead to everything negative related to a "DMPC".

Now, is you want a relatively accurate randomization, roll a d100.
If the result is 00, you get a chance to roll them agien.
If the result is of the second roll is also 00, role a d20 and if the result is a natural 20, you get to roll again.
If this last roll is also a 20 you can have Spellfire.
Add +3 if your family has a history of being devoted to Mystra for the last role only.

Or, if your determined to have spellfire in your game, randomly pick a player.

It really works best if agreed upon by player and DM, and with a player able to be a major party plot device without stealing the spotlight from the rest of the party.
DragonGhoula
07-03-07, 01:46 PM Yea, i agree with the first part, as that's the reason i was worried about giving it to me... The next part seems like it is extremely rare to get spellfire, maybe once in 1000 years, but according to the campaign setting, there are 2 in existance at one time atleast..... But ive already decided that it does exist....how should i randomize who gets it? I know the simple way, d6, 1-2 is me, so on, so forth (we only have 3 players). Any Ideas?
Alac Luin
07-03-07, 02:09 PM Well, it is rare. Not exactly once every 1000 years....
I think the numbers I gave earlier put it at just over once every 4 million births.
That would put it at between 3 to 5 people that were born with it spontaneously on Faerun at this time.

But for your issue specifically, I'd just flip a coin between the other two players or odd and even on a single die role (1-3-5 /2-4-6)
If you still want a chance take a d10, 1-2 you, 3-6 player 1, 7-0 player 2. This gives the other players the greater chance without counting you out, with an equal chance between the other players.

For equal all 3 people, d6 role. 1-2 / 3-4 / 5-6.
durin1211
07-03-07, 02:34 PM In our Home Game we always role % and if you get 5% or less you have Spellfire.

:D
DragonGhoula
07-07-07, 09:52 PM Thanks for the help! My first character didn't have spellfire, but he died, and my new one did! On the other hand, if you do gain spellfire, do you have to take the Spellfire Wielder feat? or is that just another way to do it?
The Simbul
07-08-07, 02:19 AM Honestly, if you really wanted to you could just come up with a reason to give spellfire to all the players, in some cases right from the beginning.

Such as the entire party being twin/triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet brothers or sisters, all born during some magical/cosmological/prophesied event to a mother to who possessed spellfire as well.

Or the entire party carrying/looting a powerful artifact from the Fallen Lands (Silver Marches) and being beset by Witchfire. During the conflagration of magical energies the artifact is destroyed, the party rolls 100 on their dice, and they are all imbued with spellfire, but the imbuement is permanent (as opposed to a duration of 1d100 hours).

Or they could all be experimented clones of Shandril Shessair or some other renowned/recently-perished spellfire wielder, with their own personalities and goals (i.e. their own alignments and classes).

Or they could be the byproducts of an experiment in ways to safely transfer spellfire to another being, such as through the ability rip spell (Serpent Kingdoms). Just assume some evil, spellfire-seeking necromancer decided to gather a group of test subjects to see if he could use the spell to transfer the ability to another being (or whole groups of them). The end result would be that the original spellfire wielder dies, the players all gain the ability, and then some wild magic event occurs to disrupt the magical of their captor and allow them to attack (and slay) him.
Zanan
07-08-07, 04:39 AM Spellfire is really something that needs playtesting. You have to get a feeling about all the capabilities of it, as you can easily thwart opposing spellcasters to no end. Hence, I'd be careful using it and possibly place a LA or some XP penalty (not much though) on its use by a PC.
Alac Luin
07-08-07, 05:01 PM Spellfire as written in 3.0 really does little to thwart opposing spellcasters.
The character can do nothing but make a move action on the round they attempt to absorb a spell.
They can only absorb targeted spells, while effective at absorbing that Magic Missile it does nothing sleep.
Looking at the 1st level spells in the SRD that have direct offensive combat usage, I see only 8 spells that spellfire would absorb, as opposed to 7 spells that that spellfire would do nothing for (53-54%).
This is only 15 spells out of 39, and this is only first level spells, so the mage has many more spells to choose from, including some highly effective Buff spells which I did not include in the earlier numbers as they do not have a direct offensive ability.

Higher level spells seem have a higher percentage of AoE spells. (I have not done the math but from 48% to 50% at 2nd level, again I'm only speaking of direct offensive spells)
So spellfire looks as though it has a diminishing capability of offering protection from spellcasters as levels increase.

When you look at the variety of spells have AoE, Conjurations, and Buffs a spellcaster has many other options then using targeted spells.
By school, it looks as if Necromancy has the strongest dependency on targeted spells.
DragonGhoula
07-09-07, 04:03 PM Thanks you guys for everything, but i went with the 5% thing, and i got it, so my question is, do i have to take the feat now or what?
XHereticX
07-09-07, 08:10 PM Hmm, here could be a couple of reasons adding to Simbul's

1. Your Characters in life adventure with a chosen of mystra for a time. At the end of a cataclysmic battle the chosen sacrifices himself an with the heroes help, defeat the evil. His last words are a prayer to Mystra to grant the PCs a special boon, in that case, it could be the ability to wield spellfire.

2. Or your characters could have adventured to the plane of Dweomerheart and picked up the spellfire ability as a side effect for spending time on the plane.

3. The characters could have been blessed directly by Mystra herself after doing something of importance.

4. If you are playing evil PCs, your characters could be the evil, spellfire-hungry villains that try to seize spellfire from its nomial wielders:)

5. A simple and always effective one is a wizard's magical accident. (like how superheroes gain powers after exposure to radiation)

Hmm, I assume the feat is required for the prestige class in Magic of Faerun. Dunno if you can use spellfire without the prestige class though.
Alac Luin
07-09-07, 08:21 PM Hmm, I assume the feat is required for the prestige class in Magic of Faerun. Dunno if you can use spellfire without the prestige class though.

As written, you need the Feat to use Spellfire.
You need the PrC to advance the ability to use spellfire.
The PrC requires the feat, as the PrC requires the ability to use spellfire, and according to the rules, the only way to have a way to use spellfire is to have the Feat.

As with any other Feat and/or special ability, a DM has an option of granting Feats and/or special abilities for free.
(in the OP's situation, IMO, if you give your own charicter the spellfire feat for free, you will almost guarantee everything negative about the "DMPC").
Alleran
07-10-07, 11:10 AM Related question: Has there ever been a situation where Spellfire and the Shadow Weave interacted with the same results as Silver Fire and the Shadow Weave? It came up in my current campaign, with a Spellfire wielder throwing a blast at a Shadow Weave user. One of the players argued that because Spellfire is half raw magic and half fire, it should have created one of those tears just like Silver Fire, but in response, I pointed out that Spellfire is raw magic, while Silver Fire is specifically raw Weave magic (since a Spellfire wielder is, IIRC, capable of absorbing Shadow Weave effects in the same fashion as normal Weave spells), and that there was a difference between the two as a result. Anyway, is there a clear right and wrong, such as a confrontation where this took place or a comment from Ed, or is it down to interpretation?
The Simbul
07-11-07, 03:37 AM Related question: Has there ever been a situation where Spellfire and the Shadow Weave interacted with the same results as Silver Fire and the Shadow Weave? It came up in my current campaign, with a Spellfire wielder throwing a blast at a Shadow Weave user. One of the players argued that because Spellfire is half raw magic and half fire, it should have created one of those tears just like Silver Fire, but in response, I pointed out that Spellfire is raw magic, while Silver Fire is specifically raw Weave magic (since a Spellfire wielder is, IIRC, capable of absorbing Shadow Weave effects in the same fashion as normal Weave spells), and that there was a difference between the two as a result. Anyway, is there a clear right and wrong, such as a confrontation where this took place or a comment from Ed, or is it down to interpretation?In terms of classification, note that as per page 56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Silver Fire and Spellfire are two subclassifications of the same ability/energy. As in they are both classified as "Spellfire", with one being "true spellfire" and the other being a special power given to Mystra's Chosen.

However to the main point, there is nothing in the 3E/3.5 rules that describes Silver Fire having as much of a volatile reaction to Shadow Weave magic as is described in The Return of the Archwizards trilogy ...much in the same way that nothing in the rules allows for things like ;
-Silver Fire to instantly disintegrate a phaerimm (unless the Phaerimm is a hatchling, or has approximately 26 or fewer hitpoints, no fire resistance, and utter crap for a reflex save)
-Silver Fire to rejuvenate a shattered mythal.
-Shadow Weave Magic feat allowing someone to effortlessly bypass the wardings and protective spells of Weave spellcasters.
-Shadow Weave Magic feat causing a multiclassed fighter/sorcerer/Everskan Tombguard like Galaereon to be capable of effortlessly bypassing the SR of scores of elder phaerimm, where Elven High Mages and Chosen of Mystra had failed.

Insofar as the Return of the Archwizards Silver Fire/Shadow Weave reaction is concerned, chalk it up to a temporary phenomenon where Mystra was adjusting the Weave to accommodate the now fully emerged Shadow Weave of Shar (translation, chalk it up to a temporary phenomenon where the 3E designers and the author of a novel trilogy were still fleshing out precisely how the Shadow Weave would work in the established campaign world).
Zanan
07-11-07, 03:46 AM Obviously, if a group character "contracted" spellfire, it would make a nice background for a campaign, when every other villain might hunt the character while s/he is not even aware of the going on's. Obviously, the Spellfire novels make good background knowledge ... though need not always been taken as inspiration.
MarkusTay63
07-11-07, 05:32 PM Spellfire is the worst case of "Munchkinism" ever invented - it came from a novel, and there it should stay.

Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful, but I needed to get that off my chest.
Zanan
07-12-07, 04:30 AM Spellfire is the worst case of "Munchkinism" ever invented - it came from a novel, and there it should stay.

Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful, but I needed to get that off my chest.

Well, Spellfire in-game is not as "munchkinismish" as it comes over in the novel. If carefully treated, no problem.
Faraer
07-13-07, 07:15 PM Spellfire isn't munchkinish in the novels at all -- it's a plot device. The potential munchkinism comes when it's misapplied as an ability for PCs. That came about (like the game writeup of Elminster) when lots of people wrote in asking how to give spellfire to their characters. They should have made up their own damn powers.
XHereticX
07-14-07, 09:29 AM Well, Spellfire in-game is not as "munchkinismish" as it comes over in the novel. If carefully treated, no problem.

Nope, thats the worst part. It is too munchkinish in novels and nearly useless to most in gameplay.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonGhoula 07-03-07, 10:42 AM	So im starting a Faerun campaign, and I would like to use the spellfire wielder feat, but I can't decide how to randomize the chances of someone in the party having the feat, and i would kind of like to have it myself......(im playing a character too, otherwise there wouldn't be enough players). Does anyone know of any way to randomize the approval of this feat without saying, "you get this, and you don't" ?
Alac Luin 07-03-07, 11:07 AM	First, if you are running a character with the party do not give them Spellfire, it will lead to everything negative related to a "DMPC". Now, is you want a relatively accurate randomization, roll a d100. If the result is 00, you get a chance to roll them agien. If the result is of the second roll is also 00, role a d20 and if the result is a natural 20, you get to roll again. If this last roll is also a 20 you can have Spellfire. Add +3 if your family has a history of being devoted to Mystra for the last role only. Or, if your determined to have spellfire in your game, randomly pick a player. It really works best if agreed upon by player and DM, and with a player able to be a major party plot device without stealing the spotlight from the rest of the party.
DragonGhoula 07-03-07, 01:46 PM	Yea, i agree with the first part, as that's the reason i was worried about giving it to me... The next part seems like it is extremely rare to get spellfire, maybe once in 1000 years, but according to the campaign setting, there are 2 in existance at one time atleast..... But ive already decided that it does exist....how should i randomize who gets it? I know the simple way, d6, 1-2 is me, so on, so forth (we only have 3 players). Any Ideas?
Alac Luin 07-03-07, 02:09 PM	Well, it is rare. Not exactly once every 1000 years.... I think the numbers I gave earlier put it at just over once every 4 million births. That would put it at between 3 to 5 people that were born with it spontaneously on Faerun at this time. But for your issue specifically, I'd just flip a coin between the other two players or odd and even on a single die role (1-3-5 /2-4-6) If you still want a chance take a d10, 1-2 you, 3-6 player 1, 7-0 player 2. This gives the other players the greater chance without counting you out, with an equal chance between the other players. For equal all 3 people, d6 role. 1-2 / 3-4 / 5-6.
durin1211 07-03-07, 02:34 PM	In our Home Game we always role % and if you get 5% or less you have Spellfire. :D
DragonGhoula 07-07-07, 09:52 PM	Thanks for the help! My first character didn't have spellfire, but he died, and my new one did! On the other hand, if you do gain spellfire, do you have to take the Spellfire Wielder feat? or is that just another way to do it?
The Simbul 07-08-07, 02:19 AM	Honestly, if you really wanted to you could just come up with a reason to give spellfire to all the players, in some cases right from the beginning. Such as the entire party being twin/triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet brothers or sisters, all born during some magical/cosmological/prophesied event to a mother to who possessed spellfire as well. Or the entire party carrying/looting a powerful artifact from the Fallen Lands (Silver Marches) and being beset by Witchfire. During the conflagration of magical energies the artifact is destroyed, the party rolls 100 on their dice, and they are all imbued with spellfire, but the imbuement is permanent (as opposed to a duration of 1d100 hours). Or they could all be experimented clones of Shandril Shessair or some other renowned/recently-perished spellfire wielder, with their own personalities and goals (i.e. their own alignments and classes). Or they could be the byproducts of an experiment in ways to safely transfer spellfire to another being, such as through the ability rip spell (Serpent Kingdoms). Just assume some evil, spellfire-seeking necromancer decided to gather a group of test subjects to see if he could use the spell to transfer the ability to another being (or whole groups of them). The end result would be that the original spellfire wielder dies, the players all gain the ability, and then some wild magic event occurs to disrupt the magical of their captor and allow them to attack (and slay) him.
Zanan 07-08-07, 04:39 AM	Spellfire is really something that needs playtesting. You have to get a feeling about all the capabilities of it, as you can easily thwart opposing spellcasters to no end. Hence, I'd be careful using it and possibly place a LA or some XP penalty (not much though) on its use by a PC.
Alac Luin 07-08-07, 05:01 PM	Spellfire as written in 3.0 really does little to thwart opposing spellcasters. The character can do nothing but make a move action on the round they attempt to absorb a spell. They can only absorb targeted spells, while effective at absorbing that Magic Missile it does nothing sleep. Looking at the 1st level spells in the SRD that have direct offensive combat usage, I see only 8 spells that spellfire would absorb, as opposed to 7 spells that that spellfire would do nothing for (53-54%). This is only 15 spells out of 39, and this is only first level spells, so the mage has many more spells to choose from, including some highly effective Buff spells which I did not include in the earlier numbers as they do not have a direct offensive ability. Higher level spells seem have a higher percentage of AoE spells. (I have not done the math but from 48% to 50% at 2nd level, again I'm only speaking of direct offensive spells) So spellfire looks as though it has a diminishing capability of offering protection from spellcasters as levels increase. When you look at the variety of spells have AoE, Conjurations, and Buffs a spellcaster has many other options then using targeted spells. By school, it looks as if Necromancy has the strongest dependency on targeted spells.
DragonGhoula 07-09-07, 04:03 PM	Thanks you guys for everything, but i went with the 5% thing, and i got it, so my question is, do i have to take the feat now or what?
XHereticX 07-09-07, 08:10 PM	Hmm, here could be a couple of reasons adding to Simbul's 1. Your Characters in life adventure with a chosen of mystra for a time. At the end of a cataclysmic battle the chosen sacrifices himself an with the heroes help, defeat the evil. His last words are a prayer to Mystra to grant the PCs a special boon, in that case, it could be the ability to wield spellfire. 2. Or your characters could have adventured to the plane of Dweomerheart and picked up the spellfire ability as a side effect for spending time on the plane. 3. The characters could have been blessed directly by Mystra herself after doing something of importance. 4. If you are playing evil PCs, your characters could be the evil, spellfire-hungry villains that try to seize spellfire from its nomial wielders:) 5. A simple and always effective one is a wizard's magical accident. (like how superheroes gain powers after exposure to radiation) Hmm, I assume the feat is required for the prestige class in Magic of Faerun. Dunno if you can use spellfire without the prestige class though.
Alac Luin 07-09-07, 08:21 PM	Hmm, I assume the feat is required for the prestige class in Magic of Faerun. Dunno if you can use spellfire without the prestige class though. As written, you need the Feat to use Spellfire. You need the PrC to advance the ability to use spellfire. The PrC requires the feat, as the PrC requires the ability to use spellfire, and according to the rules, the only way to have a way to use spellfire is to have the Feat. As with any other Feat and/or special ability, a DM has an option of granting Feats and/or special abilities for free. (in the OP's situation, IMO, if you give your own charicter the spellfire feat for free, you will almost guarantee everything negative about the "DMPC").
Alleran 07-10-07, 11:10 AM	Related question: Has there ever been a situation where Spellfire and the Shadow Weave interacted with the same results as Silver Fire and the Shadow Weave? It came up in my current campaign, with a Spellfire wielder throwing a blast at a Shadow Weave user. One of the players argued that because Spellfire is half raw magic and half fire, it should have created one of those tears just like Silver Fire, but in response, I pointed out that Spellfire is raw magic, while Silver Fire is specifically raw Weave magic (since a Spellfire wielder is, IIRC, capable of absorbing Shadow Weave effects in the same fashion as normal Weave spells), and that there was a difference between the two as a result. Anyway, is there a clear right and wrong, such as a confrontation where this took place or a comment from Ed, or is it down to interpretation?
The Simbul 07-11-07, 03:37 AM	Related question: Has there ever been a situation where Spellfire and the Shadow Weave interacted with the same results as Silver Fire and the Shadow Weave? It came up in my current campaign, with a Spellfire wielder throwing a blast at a Shadow Weave user. One of the players argued that because Spellfire is half raw magic and half fire, it should have created one of those tears just like Silver Fire, but in response, I pointed out that Spellfire is raw magic, while Silver Fire is specifically raw Weave magic (since a Spellfire wielder is, IIRC, capable of absorbing Shadow Weave effects in the same fashion as normal Weave spells), and that there was a difference between the two as a result. Anyway, is there a clear right and wrong, such as a confrontation where this took place or a comment from Ed, or is it down to interpretation?In terms of classification, note that as per page 56 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Silver Fire and Spellfire are two subclassifications of the same ability/energy. As in they are both classified as "Spellfire", with one being "true spellfire" and the other being a special power given to Mystra's Chosen. However to the main point, there is nothing in the 3E/3.5 rules that describes Silver Fire having as much of a volatile reaction to Shadow Weave magic as is described in The Return of the Archwizards trilogy ...much in the same way that nothing in the rules allows for things like ; -Silver Fire to instantly disintegrate a phaerimm (unless the Phaerimm is a hatchling, or has approximately 26 or fewer hitpoints, no fire resistance, and utter crap for a reflex save) -Silver Fire to rejuvenate a shattered mythal. -Shadow Weave Magic feat allowing someone to effortlessly bypass the wardings and protective spells of Weave spellcasters. -Shadow Weave Magic feat causing a multiclassed fighter/sorcerer/Everskan Tombguard like Galaereon to be capable of effortlessly bypassing the SR of scores of elder phaerimm, where Elven High Mages and Chosen of Mystra had failed. Insofar as the Return of the Archwizards Silver Fire/Shadow Weave reaction is concerned, chalk it up to a temporary phenomenon where Mystra was adjusting the Weave to accommodate the now fully emerged Shadow Weave of Shar (translation, chalk it up to a temporary phenomenon where the 3E designers and the author of a novel trilogy were still fleshing out precisely how the Shadow Weave would work in the established campaign world).
Zanan 07-11-07, 03:46 AM	Obviously, if a group character "contracted" spellfire, it would make a nice background for a campaign, when every other villain might hunt the character while s/he is not even aware of the going on's. Obviously, the Spellfire novels make good background knowledge ... though need not always been taken as inspiration.
MarkusTay63 07-11-07, 05:32 PM	Spellfire is the worst case of "Munchkinism" ever invented - it came from a novel, and there it should stay. Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful, but I needed to get that off my chest.
Zanan 07-12-07, 04:30 AM	Spellfire is the worst case of "Munchkinism" ever invented - it came from a novel, and there it should stay. Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful, but I needed to get that off my chest. Well, Spellfire in-game is not as "munchkinismish" as it comes over in the novel. If carefully treated, no problem.
Faraer 07-13-07, 07:15 PM	Spellfire isn't munchkinish in the novels at all -- it's a plot device. The potential munchkinism comes when it's misapplied as an ability for PCs. That came about (like the game writeup of Elminster) when lots of people wrote in asking how to give spellfire to their characters. They should have made up their own damn powers.
XHereticX 07-14-07, 09:29 AM	Well, Spellfire in-game is not as "munchkinismish" as it comes over in the novel. If carefully treated, no problem. Nope, thats the worst part. It is too munchkinish in novels and nearly useless to most in gameplay.