Post/Author/DateTime	Post
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 03-26-07, 11:47 PM	How do you think the Chosen would fare in the underdark. If you look at stats of creatures from the underdark, most everything is 15th and above. Teleporting would be suicidal, their first spell to cast except for Qilue would be Darkvision. face them off against Mind Flayers with levels, Beholder Mages, Aboleths, high level drow, and all sorts of other nasty goodies. Whats your take on it?
Tevin Kevlak 03-27-07, 01:41 AM	Well if you get all the chosen together in the Underdark and have them fight a bunch of level 15 things I don't think it would be any less of a slughter than it would be to put all the chosen together to fight a bunch of level 15 things on the surface. I'm pretty sure that all of the Chosen are epic characters so say bye bye to your CR 15 Mindflayer.
Old Sage 03-27-07, 01:50 AM	They would do well to steer clear of Skixtalq, the Chosen of Gzemnid. ;) ::winks at LK::
Zanan 03-27-07, 02:46 AM	"The Chosen" (Seven Sisters et al is what you refer to here, right?) will not go on suicidal missions, nor will they go unprepared. That's not to say they will waltz it all. Obviously, it all depends on the way you want them performing. If you go by novels, e.g. the Archwizards' series about the return of Shade, where they "play" about with dragons et al, you can see where the denizens of Har'oloth will end up. Same happened to some drow in Silverfall. They are, IMHO, not meant to be playable by DMs and the like, they are heroes for novels and do what novel-heroes do. Rules or not.
redmagefish 03-27-07, 06:56 AM	:invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: the chosen of bane would face dark magic so they would do not be as good with there darker magic.the chosen of grusmmh or some thing like that the guy for hunters blade would most likey fall to the mind flayers. the chosen of deinier and the sibmul,seven sisters,and el would slowy use there magic but the would fair the best out of the chosen i know (sorry for the spelling but i think you know what i mean:D
Sortfiere 03-27-07, 08:41 AM	How do you think the Chosen would fare in the underdark. If you look at stats of creatures from the underdark, most everything is 15th and above. Teleporting would be suicidal, their first spell to cast except for Qilue would be Darkvision. face them off against Mind Flayers with levels, Beholder Mages, Aboleths, high level drow, and all sorts of other nasty goodies. Whats your take on it? Mystra's Eyes!, he really can't help himself, can he? bait anyone?
Alediran 03-27-07, 09:06 AM	Not again... Xul, if a group of 4 10th lvl characters can survive City of the Spider Queen then the chosen of mystra would laugh at those little aberrations. They have fought them in the past, and they have fought greater enemies without breaking a sweat. The only dangerous ray of the beholder (disintegrate) is useless against the chosen, thanks to their inmunity to disintegrations. The other rays are even easier to counter, and beholders don't have DR, so they can be killed by a simple dagger made of steel. Beholder Mage, I'll just laugh, chosen of Mystra are even more prepared to go against an arcane spellcaster Mind Blank provides inmunity against Mind Flayers psionic attacks, and the famous polymorph done by Harkle Harple in Siege from Darkness would render somebody inmune to a extract brain attack (unless the Mind Flayer has time to find where the brain is, time he doesn't have because he is already dead) Aboleths aren't even going to be found if you don't throw your bones into the water. High level drow, just treat them like another nuisance.
Stigger 03-27-07, 09:06 AM	Bait indeed... kinda amazing the lengths that he'll go to...
Lord Karsus 03-27-07, 09:30 AM	They would do well to steer clear of Skixtalq, the Chosen of Gzemnid. ;) ::winks at LK:: -I mentioned him in another thread a few minutes ago. -Whadda (G)eye, whadda (G)eye...:rimshot:
The Ranger 03-27-07, 09:34 PM	Am I the only one who's grown somewhat weary of the Chosen being the answer to each and every problem in the Realms? Don't get me wrong, Khelben was great and all, but he was the only one who seemed to have any sort of life to him. All the others? Well, it just seems to me that another god or two must have a Chosen out there who could help out every now and again. I know, I know, we've learned about the Chosen of Bane, Cyric, Mask, Deneir and others in some of the novels and those characters have all been a welcome relief precisely because they are flawed beings with interesting quirks. But Mystra's Chosen? A very boring goody-goody lot. And that brings me to my greatest pet peeve about Mystra's Chosen -- why in the Nine Hells is a priestess of Eilistraee a Chosen of Mystra? I don't mind that she's drow, that's actually pretty cool. It just seems to me that if I'm a god who's going to invest some mortal with my divine energy, blessing or whatever I'd expect that mortal to at least pick me as a patron and maybe show up for services in my church once in awhile instead of gallavanting about in some other goddess's name End random anti-Chosen rant.
BrennonGoldeye 03-27-07, 10:28 PM	-Whadda (G)eye, whadda (G)eye... Yes? Oh. Sorry. Let me tune down the Mantle. Ah, that's better. How do you think the Chosen would fare in the underdark. If you look at stats of creatures from the underdark, most everything is 15th and above. Teleporting would be suicidal, their first spell to cast except for Qilue would be Darkvision. face them off against Mind Flayers with levels, Beholder Mages, Aboleths, high level drow, and all sorts of other nasty goodies. Whats your take on it? I think better than they do up top. It's the good aligned surface bystanders that stop them from opening up. Come on, these people surfed the cosmic waves for years. Underpark is more like it. I will admit some rides are more dangerous than others. You best watch out for Sshamath Springs. ;)
Lord Karsus 03-27-07, 11:12 PM	I think better than they do up top. It's the good aligned surface bystanders that stop them from opening up. Come on, these people surfed the cosmic waves for years. Underpark is more like it. I will admit some rides are more dangerous than others. You best watch out for Sshamath Springs. ;) -Nice subliminal messaging. :)
Stigger 03-28-07, 12:58 AM	Ranger, I'd suggest reading over The Seven Sisters 2e supplement, it sheds a lot of light on them and would, I suspect, change your attitude towards them considerably. From your take on Qilue, I am doubting that you have. :)
Old Sage 03-28-07, 02:12 AM	And that brings me to my greatest pet peeve about Mystra's Chosen -- why in the Nine Hells is a priestess of Eilistraee a Chosen of Mystra? I don't mind that she's drow, that's actually pretty cool.Qilue was born to a drow female and prominent worshipper of Eilistraee. Elue Shundar, the mortal host of Mystra, died before Mystra/Shundar could carry the seventh child, Qilue, to full term. And so, a new mother had to be found before Mystra's own power consumed the child. Mystra set about looking for another suitable womb for the unborn Qilue, and found Iliryztara Veladorn. Veladorn was also pregnant but her adventuring ways had resulted in the death of her own unborn child -- she was not aware of this however -- and as a result, her own life was threatened because of it. Mystra decided to replace Iliryztara's dead unborn child with Qilue, thus saving both Qilue's and Iliryztara's lives. However, Eilistraee had plans for Iliryztara and her unborn child. Mystra, thus, sought permission from Eilistraee about whether the Goddess of Mysteries could intervene in Veladorn's life. Eilistraee agreed and Qilue was placed in Iliryztara's womb. When Qilue was born, she was born a drow and servant of both Mystra and Eilistraee. This is explained fully in Seven Sisters.
Zanan 03-28-07, 04:52 AM	We should have a FAQ named Qiluč, shouldn't we?
Lord Karsus 03-28-07, 08:59 AM	We should have a FAQ named Qiluč, shouldn't we? -It's asked often enough, yes.
Alediran 03-28-07, 09:01 AM	We should have a FAQ named Qiluč, shouldn't we? Agree.
Old Sage 03-28-07, 09:17 AM	We should have a FAQ named Qiluč, shouldn't we?Indeed. Until then, all relevant tidbits regarding Qiluč's unique status are featured in the Candlekeep's Guide to Forgotten Realms FAQ that I'm presently compiling.
Boda 03-28-07, 03:14 PM	The chosen of mystra would fare pretty well in the underdark.Drow?Aha! Since they grovel around their females, and El would dominate them with is mojo, drow are nothing. Aboleh? Only if El goes fishing! Mind-flayer?fire magic in use would dehydrate them all! Beholders?Why would they be more efficient them their kin that work with the zhents? Besides, if by chance, the chosen of mystra be in any kind of trouble, big magic mommy to the rescue!
BrennonGoldeye 03-28-07, 05:18 PM	Hmm, very petulant, but true....:cip:
The Ranger 03-28-07, 09:59 PM	Qilue was born to a drow female and prominent worshipper of Eilistraee... Well, now that makes (some) sense. I suppose I just haven't warmed to the majority of the Chosen. It's not that I hate Mystra or anything (she's done right by my PCs who've called her patron), but the Chosen just seem to show up with far too much regularity for my tastes. As I mentioned in my first post I was a big Khelban fan, but have found the others rather uninspiring. At least now I understand why Qilue is a Chosen, and will try to track down a copy of Seven Sisters as Stigger suggested.
Alediran 03-29-07, 01:03 PM	Ranger, you should get to know more about the Seven Sisters, each one of them is very different from the other. You got the charming and good hearted Alustriel ruling Silverymoon (she hasn't adventured in many decades, so her powers are more a foot-note than anything), the hot-headed Simbul, admired by many sorcerers and wizards who fight on a regular basis against incredible odds. Laeral is the ballance that Khelben always needed. I've never knew Sylune, but even as a ghost she can do things that the other chosen don't (in Silverfall: Stories of the Seven Sisters for example), and she is also a good way to scare the players :rofl:
MaskedOne 03-29-07, 02:00 PM	Well, now that makes (some) sense. I suppose I just haven't warmed to the majority of the Chosen. It's not that I hate Mystra or anything (she's done right by my PCs who've called her patron), but the Chosen just seem to show up with far too much regularity for my tastes. As I mentioned in my first post I was a big Khelban fan, but have found the others rather uninspiring. At least now I understand why Qilue is a Chosen, and will try to track down a copy of Seven Sisters as Stigger suggested. Seven Sisters can be downloaded for about 5 bucks from RPGnow and/or DrivethruRpg. Both sites have a sizable supply of easily affordable old TSR books for download. Just have either a decent internet connection or a lot of spare time.
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 05:09 PM	Just have either a decent internet connection or a lot of spare time. -It takes, give or take, a half hour to download 2e Sourcebook PDFs on a regular (56k) modem.
MaskedOne 03-30-07, 12:48 AM	Better than I thought. Then again, last I time I did it with a normal modem was with N:EoM and that was more than one book.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 03-30-07, 01:29 AM	What I want to know is why some of you can't admit that the Chosen can be killed. Don't think novel, think game rules. A 27th level Mind Flayer Wizard can't be touched by the Chosen. The Underdark is full of vastly powerful beings. You have Ioulaum who is now in the Underdark surrounded by a whole enclave of Mind Flayer Ghosts, you have things coming through gates from other planes in the underdark all the time. There are more things in the underdark besides drow and mind flayers. A very high level or high HD Aboleth is an insanely powerful creature. And the same with Beholders.
Stigger 03-30-07, 02:05 AM	Of course they can be killed, how else would you explain Sylune? But that's entirely besides the point Xun. They're meant to be Iconic NPC's, not PC fodder. They're the DM's deus ex button, background, history, and cameo guest appearances all rolled into one neat package. Don't like them? Don't use them, simple as that... Sure they could be killed off, no ones said, to my knowledge, that they can't be. With the exception of novels however, they've never been portrayed as galavanting off on crusades and battles just because they can, except for the Simbul, but well, she's the Simbul and does things like that. And then Mystra told her to belt up and cut it out, and start playing it more like the spiders the rest of her sisters are. In general, my view of them is that most of their battles are fought by proxy, just like most of Fzoul's are... they just don't get involved with a lot of stuff that doesn't center around maintaining the status quo and putting down those who upset that status quo. Sure they mess with the Zhents and other malignant groups, but is that because they're malignant and in need of being crushed, or because they've unleashed yet another plot to take over Cormyr or a Dale? I'm not sure I comprehend this need you seem to have in crushing them under your heel, but if it gets you off, I say go for it, waste them in your campaign and unleash every sick fantasy of punishment you've ever had upon them if it makes you feel better. And then you'll feel better and those of us who enjoy them can use them as they were intended and go right on enjoying them as much as we want. That way we'll both be happy and no one's upset, and WotC will go on doing whatever it is WotC is want to do and we'll vote for their results with our purchases. :)
BrennonGoldeye 03-30-07, 07:37 AM	Xun, I will admit loudly and openly that the Chosen can be killed. Khelban anyone? But you really must leave out goofy statements such as.. A 27th level Mind Flayer Wizard can't be touched by the Chosen. Hmm, 27th level vs a 24/5 wizard/archmage with triple the flayers HP. I don't think any touching will be invovled. Just wanting to point that out.;)
MaskedOne 03-30-07, 09:08 AM	What I want to know is why some of you can't admit that the Chosen can be killed. Don't think novel, think game rules. A 27th level Mind Flayer Wizard can't be touched by the Chosen. The Underdark is full of vastly powerful beings. You have Ioulaum who is now in the Underdark surrounded by a whole enclave of Mind Flayer Ghosts, you have things coming through gates from other planes in the underdark all the time. There are more things in the underdark besides drow and mind flayers. A very high level or high HD Aboleth is an insanely powerful creature. And the same with Beholders. Shrug, provide a halfway believable sequence of events for the death of a Chosen and I might accept it. As is Ioulaum has no reason to fight the Chosen and one or two good reasons not to so their comparative power is meaningless. More importantly, since the original question was can the Chosen survive in the Underdark, why are people who can hide from just about any form of mortal scrying fighting level 27 mind flayer wizards? They don't need to and the Mind Flayer has no reason to be aware of who or what they are therefore won't be hunting them, no contact means no conflict here. The more normal versions that the Chosen might meet randomly aren't really a threat. The same premise applies to any other race in the bounds of the underdark.
Red_Wizard 03-30-07, 10:15 AM	What I want to know is why some of you can't admit that the Chosen can be killed. I'd like to know why you keeping trying to. Sure by stats, ignoring some of the glaring errors on both sides, one on one, both unprepared, the chosen might be killed. But face the facts, the chosen are unlikely to be caught alone, unknowing with anything that is dangerous enough to threaten them. The only way this happens is if the DM, suddenly and without warning hands the character sheet of one to one player, and then a monster to the others, and says, ok, suddenly you are teleported into the same room...FIGHT!. I just don't see what you hope to garner from your posts like these. Would you like to come on one day and have everyone suddenly run to you saying, "You were right Xun, I killed the chosen in my campaign, it can be done"? Cause it won't. I know what you're saying, and I still say that your arguments, are pointless, and nonsensical at best. If it'll make you happy though, and stop asking these things, then Yes, the chosen can be killed.....Just like everything else. But the likelihood of them being taken out is much less than the life expectancy of your average wandering Kobold. p.s. Building NPCs with the specific purpose of killing the chosen is silly at best. No one can, has, or ever will learn enough of any chosen, or high level being to flawlessly plan out their level progression, solely to destroy said person. And if they did, they'd be shite out of luck against anything not that particular person...
Zevox 03-30-07, 12:35 PM	What I want to know is why some of you can't admit that the Chosen can be killed. Don't think novel, think game rules. A 27th level Mind Flayer Wizard can't be touched by the Chosen. Of course the Chosen can be killed. Its just not so easy as you seem to think. Certainly it takes a hell of a lot more than just saying "put them in the Underdark!" Just like on the surface, most of the creatures in the Underdark are significantly weaker than them. Then you go and presume they'd run into a one-in-a-million creature, like that Mind Flayer. Thats not a common creature, theres no guarantee of running into any such thing, and theres not even a guarantee it'd be hostile to them. Even then, you're looking at a creature that is only about the same level as most of them, hardly untouchable. Then, of course, you forget that the Chosen are intelligent. If they get in trouble, they will take steps to get out, unless what they're doing is more important than their life (and "randomly wandering the Underdark" doesn't qualify). Even if they happen to be in one of the Underdark's regions where teleporting is inadvisable, they can always Plane Shift off to Dweomerheart (and you can bet that if they go into the Underdark they'll have contingency spells to send them there, or similar safety-reaching contingencies that don't rely on teleporting). It takes a lot more than running into one strong being to kill them off - if it didn't, they'd all have been dead hundreds of years ago. Zevox
BrennonGoldeye 03-30-07, 11:01 PM	Then, of course, you forget that the Chosen are intelligent. He didn't forget. He never knew. :dbl:
Sortfiere 03-31-07, 09:18 AM	He didn't forget. He never knew. :dbl: Oh, he knew...he just wishes it wasn't so :P
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 05:53 PM	-Sage and I just want to raise the public awareness of Skixtalq the Obscurant, Chosen of Gzimnid, again. Alright, carry on...:cool:
Old Sage 03-31-07, 08:08 PM	Indeed. Though, again, I must point out that it is Gzemnid. And, I have a feeling LK is intentionally making the incorrect spelling of the beholder god's name part of our little *game*. ;)
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 09:04 PM	Indeed. Though, again, I must point out that it is Gzemnid. And, I have a feeling LK is intentionally making the incorrect spelling of the beholder god's name part of our little *game*. ;) -Indeedy-deed. -Well, so long folks. Me 'n Sage are headed to Osse for the weekend! :cool:
Old Sage 03-31-07, 09:32 PM	I suppose you'll want to make a quick trip to the 'gnomish-infested' lands of Lantan as well? ;)
BrennonGoldeye 03-31-07, 09:57 PM	I've set up the elemental feed-trough. Enjoy fellahs. Just turn off your tech. I promise all will be the same when you return......:D
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 10:54 PM	I suppose you'll want to make a quick trip to the 'gnomish-infested' lands of Lantan as well? ;) -Yeah, we probably have to pick up KtM from Lantan. He has an eye for those Lantanese Gnomes, and wanders off to Lantan often...:: Shrugs :: I promise all will be the same when you return......:D -I'll keep note of that. ;)
Old Sage 03-31-07, 11:00 PM	::shudders in fear:: ;)