The elder outer planes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

The elder outer planes? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
varyar
05-06-07, 12:25 AM Hi, all! I'm going to be running another Forgotten Realms one-on-one game set in the distant (c. -20,000 DR) past of Faerun soon. This one is primarily outer planar in nature and I thought it'd be fun to shake up the planar set-up a little. Using the 3.x cosmology, this is what I came up with as a map of :

THE ELDER OUTER PLANES

The Abyss, an endless succession of unfettered, selfish evil worlds, all home to countless tanar'ri.
Barrens of Blood, a hideous wasteland contested by the tanar'ri and baatezu.
Deep Caverns, an endless network of twisted caverns home to even more twisted creatures.
Faerie, the forest and crystal palace home of the fairy folk and their elven allies.
Fated Depths, the foul depths of the fiendish planes, where the batrachi deities dwell.
Fury's Heart, the dark, malicious reflection of Wyldland, home to savage beast gods.
Gates of the Moon, the tranquil, moonlit realm of Selûne and her servant deities and spirits.
High Hills, a forested realm where the gods of the humans dwell in many tribal pantheons.
Jotunheim, the bleak, mountainous homeland of the giants and their gods.
Keep of the Eternal Sun, the bright, golden domain of the god of the dawn.
Nine Hells, the iron stronghold of the baatezu and their tyrannical masters.
Offalmound, a realm of rot and corruption, home to the most hideous and evil creatures in existence.
Plains of Shadow, a dark, tenebrous realm where Shar and her minion deities lurk.
Scaled Peak, the infinite mountain where the many gods of the dragons and sarrukh reside.
Silver Clouds, an infinite sky where the aearee gods and their many winged servants make their home.
Wyldland, a primal wilderness home to dozens of nature gods and spirits.

I'm not happy with Faerie as the name for Proto-Arvandor, since it doesn't really gel with Faerie as the ancestral homeland of the sun elves. But I can't think of a better name to reflect the plane before the elves overshadowed the fey races.

This one takes place even further in the past than -20,000... in a manner of speaking. The PC, Saela, is going to go back even further in time, but only by venturing into the dreams of an ancient, dying-but-not-dead god in order to seek out Uilia Mihumien, the lost elvish god of travel and exploration who herself got lost or imprisoned in the dream past.
Gray Richardson
05-06-07, 02:01 AM Sounds good!

One thought, there would likely have been both a plane of Faerie and a separate plane of Arvanador back at that time, as the fey creator race had their own plane of Faerie, and the Seldarine had already interloped sometime circa -24,000 DR or possibly as far back as -30,000 DR (or even earlier). Arvandor would seem to have split off from Jotunheim (there are giantish ruins in Arvandor) which indicates that the elves stole it, bought it, tricked it, or conquered it from the giant gods.

There should also probably be a Celestia or Seven Heavens as a home for the Archons, who probably entered the cosmology around the same time as the devils and demons. Celestia did not change its name to the House of the Triad until thousands of years later when Tyr arrived in the Realms and formed the Triad circa -247 DR.

I might suggest separating the serpentfolk gods from the dragon gods, as the World Serpent probably had his own plane at one point--which would seem to currently take the form of the World Serpent Inn--but back in the day it probably looked very different. That is not to say your instincts are wrong, It could be that the dragon gods invaded that plane and took over a layer or region. Your cosmos, your call.

Other than that it looks like a great deal of fun what you have set up. I find the history and archaeology of the FR planes to be fascinating, and you have clearly put a lot of thought and creative effort into your scheme. I hope you have a blast with your ancient planar adventuring! Good luck! :)
varyar
05-06-07, 08:20 AM Thanks for the suggestions (esp. the Celestia one)! I'll do some fiddling with the list later today.
varyar
05-06-07, 11:17 AM Et voila!

Arvandor, a land of woods and crystal palaces where the Seldarine reside, having wrested the realm from the giants of Jotunheim.
Celestia, a serene and heavenly mountain where the archons, powerful spirits of pure good, dwell in peace.
Dragon Eyrie, the infinite mountain where the many gods of the dragons reside.
Faerie, the forest home of the fairy folk and the many gods of the Seelie and Unseelie Courts.
Jotunheim, the bleak, mountainous homeland of the giants and their gods, fierce foes of the elves.
Scaly Halls, the marshy realm, closely linked to Dragon Eyrie, where the sarrukh and their mysterious gods make their home.
stclax_26
05-08-07, 12:33 AM Very interesting! If you don't mind divulging more spoilers for your campaign, I would love to read how you fleshed out these bygone, pre-Great Tree planes.

Andrew
varyar
05-08-07, 10:34 AM Very interesting! If you don't mind divulging more spoilers for your campaign, I would love to read how you fleshed out these bygone, pre-Great Tree planes.

To be honest, I haven't yet. :o I need to decide which ones will actually get visited and focus on those (definitely Arvandor, and one or two others) in terms of a longer write-up.
Nero's Boot
05-12-07, 09:22 AM Maybe Fury's Heart was previously the home of primitive gods of rage and destruction, like Borem, with Talos being a recent interloper?

--Talos could be in the process of conquering Fury's Heart NB
Nero's Boot
05-12-07, 09:31 AM ....also, maybe at one point, Talona dwelt with Moander in Offalmound, as did Ghaunadaur and the demon prince Zuggtmoy. Only later, as Netheril arose, did Talona, Ghaunadaur and Zuggtmoy move to other planes.

--at one point, Offalmound might have had five or six gods dwelling in it NB
XHereticX
05-12-07, 10:36 AM Maybe Fury's Heart was previously the home of primitive gods of rage and destruction, like Borem, with Talos being a recent interloper?

--Talos could be in the process of conquering Fury's Heart NB

Talos is a extremely ancient deity(the 1st created by Shar and selune's battles) that I think has ruled Fury's Heart for a long time. Before that I think the plane was most likely the home of evil elementals or something like that.

I have always assumed that Borem and the lost gods duelled on the Barrens of Doom and Despair.

And the Abyss and Nine Hells might have been very different before the fiends interloped and colonized the planes.
Gray Richardson
05-12-07, 10:53 AM One thing to remember is that Talos and Talona are two of the oldest gods in the universe, having been created in the War of Light & Darkness between at the dawn of time.

Up to that point, Selûne and Shar had lived in harmony with Chauntea, until Selûne and Chauntea conspired against Shar to create a sun to provide warmth and light. Shar felt betrayed by this and so launched her war against them, and from this divine conflict spawned the original gods of War, Murder, Death, Disease, Destruction and other fell gods.

These new gods would have established their own divine realms and planes at that time. Destruction (Talos) likely created Fury's Heart as a dark mirror of Chauntea's House of Nature, possibly even corrupting and tearing off a chunk of her plane to form his own.

Talona (Disease) has likely lived in the Barrens from the beginning and may have even helped create the plane along with the other "fell gods". The Barrens was the original plane of evil for Toril's cosmology.

I suspect that the original god of Murder also had his realm in the Barrens. Although, what is interesting is that Murder and Death were originally two different entities, but by the time of Netheril the two were consolidated as the one god Jergal. This intriguing fact implies that at some point either the god of Death or the god of Murder killed the other and took his portfolio.

Perhaps Jergal was the one to do this, although Jergal is not the original holder of either portfolio, as he would appear to be either an ascended mortal spellweaver or an interloper god from the spellweaver pantheon. The Fugue Plane would have likely been created by the original god of Death, whoever he was.

War (Targus/Tempus/Garagos) would have also formed his plane of War around this time, so some version of Warrior's Rest or a battle plane has likely existed from the beginning as well.
Gray Richardson
05-12-07, 11:11 AM It is thought that Moander is actually an ascended demon lord. I suspect he might even be an Obyrith. Originally his realm of Offalmound was located on the 223rd layer of the Abyss, also called Rarandreth.

It seems likely that if this became a separate plane, that he wrenched his layer free from the Abyss, much as Lolth has recently done, to form his own plane.
MarkusTay63
05-12-07, 01:09 PM Sounds good!

One thought, there would likely have been both a plane of Faerie and a separate plane of Arvanador back at that time, as the fey creator race had their own plane of Faerie, and the Seldarine had already interloped sometime circa -24,000 DR or possibly as far back as -30,000 DR (or even earlier). Arvandor would seem to have split off from Jotunheim (there are giantish ruins in Arvandor) which indicates that the elves stole it, bought it, tricked it, or conquered it from the giant gods.I have it where the Fey were the FIRST creator race, but because of their knack for Glamours (illusion magic) they were able to hide from the other creator races when they began to appear. Also, the had innate shapechanging abilities (magical, not natural like the Batrachi), so they could appear as anyone or anything. My entire take on them is as follows -

The original homeland of the Fey was in Osse, where they lived and frolicked for millenia (True Fey are immortal). Eventually, being inquisitive creatures by nature, they began to explore other worlds and planes. Unfortunately, they found out that the further they went from their homeland, the weaker they would become. On other 'prime' worlds they would loose many of their abilities, and in the outer planes they could actually grow old and die! They figured out a system where they could periodically come back to their homeland in Osse (called Fäerie) and rest for awhile, and that would replenish them. After a time, some of their mages developed a type of magic that would allow them to take a 'piece of Fäerie' with them wherever they traveled (the Windwalker is an artifact from this time). However, problems still arose occasionally because certain planes and worlds were not easy to travel to or get away from. This is when they created the GREATEST magic ritual ever conceived by non-devine beings (being back before Mystra's ban helped). They decided to take their homeland with them! Fäerie was a massive plateau in central Osse, and the ritual allowed them to tear the entire plateau free of Faerûn and create their own demi-plane. The plane was bordered by mists, and by walking into the mists Fey could easily come and go on an infinite number of worlds. The area where Fäerie had previously been became a barren landscape (called the Osse Outback today), and is the largest known magic-dead zone in Realmspace. Some few Fey chose to remain behind, but they had to 'anchor' themselves to something in nature in order to retain their immortality (hence Dryads, Fossergrim, KT spirits, etc...).

Over time, several things occurred - The Fey born after Fäerie was seperated from Osse had 'dwindled'. They were not as powerful as the originals, and they were not immortal. It was slow in coming, but with each generation the 'new' Fey lived less and less, until today they live a mere thousand years. Many of these 'children of the Fey' began to break away from their parent race, not feeling the same connection to the land as the True Fey did. Many became 'stuck' in shapes their parents had taken at the time of their birth, because they lacked the Fey's natural shapechanging abilities. This is how many of the lesser Fey races came to be - the Centaurs, Saytrs, etc... The Fey children that still looked 'Elfen' became known as the Sidhe, while those that still had the tall and regal bearing like their parents became known as the Alfar. Over the millenium the Alfar split into 12 great tribes - the Daoine Shee (gold), the LiosAlfar (light), the Vanir (Moon), etc..

The children broke away from their parents (that is a grand tale in and of itself) and formed their own realm called Aryvandor, on the misty borders of Fäerie. Their leader built a magnificent city, Tintageer, and lead them for several millenium, until their faith in him raised him amongst the powers. After several others of these Alfar (now called Elves) 'ascended', they chose to break their land away from their mortal followers, much as their Fey ancestors had done in the past. They took with them much of the lands surrounding Tintageer, leaving behind just an island in the Sea of Dreams. Aryvandor became it's own demi-plane, although many believe it's located on Arboria. The truth is that it is a seperate realm that you can enter from most worlds, but when you leave and step through the borders of Aryvandor you are automatically brought back to the place you entered from. Their is an entire forest on Arboria that acts as a portal, hence the confusion.

Eventually Fäerie itself broke off several other realms, like the demi-plane of dread, which is a dark mirror of the beauty and harmony of Fäerie. It is said the the Unseelie did this, and the evil realm of Ladinion (on the border of Fäerie) still has connections to both. Then the god of sleep took it upon himself to gather together three realms to orbit his own, and this triumverate of demi-planes is known as Fantasia. It includes Somnambula (Plane of Dreams), Nocturnia (The Nightmare Lands), and Fäerie (Daydreams, sometimes called 'fancies). Each of these three is still it's own seperate demi-plane, but each has infinate connections to other planes as well (and in the case of Nocturnia, parts of it actually exist on another demi-plane). The god of Dreams and sleep does not rule these realms, he merely keeps them linked and close at hand for his own uses; each has it's own ruler.

As for the true Fey themselves, well... they're still around... if you know where to look. ;)

The primitive aboriginies of Osse have legends of the time of the 'spirit people', and occasionally their powerful Shamans still go to visit them... in the "Dreamtime". :D
And that, in a nutshell, is Fäerie. I started research on it for a different game system back in the late 70's, but the company I was writing the supplement for moved to the west Coast and I lost touch. Over the years I have adapted most of it to the various iterations of the D&D system, and have most recently added in the part about Osse. After all, canon does say the Fey started on Toril. :cool:

EDIT: I almost forgot! - A LINK (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54652539/) to my latest version of Fäerie
varyar
05-12-07, 01:30 PM Excellent stuff all around. :)

A couple new additions to the list:

Battle Eaves, a plane of constant twilight and infinite woodland fringes where warrior spirits clash in endless battles.
Dweomerheart, a realm where magic reaches its ultimate potential under the guardianship of nine wise gods. (Mystryl and eight lesser powers for the eight schools of magic)

I'm thinking of at least coming up with names and portfolios for the human pantheon (or at least the one for the area Saela the PC is going to visit in the dream-past). Selûne, Shar, Chauntea, Mystryl, the sun god, Death, Murder, War, a few nature gods... Does anybody have the information/speculation on the Talfir pantheon handy?
MarkusTay63
05-12-07, 01:40 PM Does anybody have the information/speculation on the Talfir pantheon handy?Nothing official, but I have them using the Celtic Pantheon, the only survivors of which (at the time of modern Talfir) would have been Ohgma, Silvanus, and Goibhnie (Gond).

I have a theory that Mystra is somehow connected to Mystara, but I haven't figured out what yet.

Also, since this was before The Great Tree, can we call this proto-cosmology "The Sapling". ;)
varyar
05-12-07, 01:50 PM Nothing official, but I have them using the Celtic Pantheon, the only survivors of which (at the time of modern Talfir) would have been Ohgma, Silvanus, and Goibhnie (Gond).

Oh, not a bad idea.

I have a theory that Mystra is somehow connected to Mystara, but I haven't figured out what yet.

My knowledge of the Mystara setting is essentially nil, but this sounds interesting.

Also, since this was before The Great Tree, can we call this proto-cosmology "The Sapling". ;)

Heh.
XHereticX
05-13-07, 05:01 PM It is thought that Moander is actually an ascended demon lord. I suspect he might even be an Obyrith. Originally his realm of Offalmound was located on the 223rd layer of the Abyss, also called Rarandreth.

It seems likely that if this became a separate plane, that he wrenched his layer free from the Abyss, much as Lolth has recently done, to form his own plane.

Or maybe he could even be a Baernloth, since his portfolios seem to fit very well with the Baernloth theme.

As for this proto planes theory, the PGTF did say that the Barrens and Blood Rift were originally one plane.

Maybe all the fiendish planes were torn off from the Barrens when new evil interlopers showed up, since it is wisely assumed that the Barrens are the original evil plane.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
varyar 05-06-07, 12:25 AM	Hi, all! I'm going to be running another Forgotten Realms one-on-one game set in the distant (c. -20,000 DR) past of Faerun soon. This one is primarily outer planar in nature and I thought it'd be fun to shake up the planar set-up a little. Using the 3.x cosmology, this is what I came up with as a map of : THE ELDER OUTER PLANES The Abyss, an endless succession of unfettered, selfish evil worlds, all home to countless tanar'ri. Barrens of Blood, a hideous wasteland contested by the tanar'ri and baatezu. Deep Caverns, an endless network of twisted caverns home to even more twisted creatures. Faerie, the forest and crystal palace home of the fairy folk and their elven allies. Fated Depths, the foul depths of the fiendish planes, where the batrachi deities dwell. Fury's Heart, the dark, malicious reflection of Wyldland, home to savage beast gods. Gates of the Moon, the tranquil, moonlit realm of Selûne and her servant deities and spirits. High Hills, a forested realm where the gods of the humans dwell in many tribal pantheons. Jotunheim, the bleak, mountainous homeland of the giants and their gods. Keep of the Eternal Sun, the bright, golden domain of the god of the dawn. Nine Hells, the iron stronghold of the baatezu and their tyrannical masters. Offalmound, a realm of rot and corruption, home to the most hideous and evil creatures in existence. Plains of Shadow, a dark, tenebrous realm where Shar and her minion deities lurk. Scaled Peak, the infinite mountain where the many gods of the dragons and sarrukh reside. Silver Clouds, an infinite sky where the aearee gods and their many winged servants make their home. Wyldland, a primal wilderness home to dozens of nature gods and spirits. I'm not happy with Faerie as the name for Proto-Arvandor, since it doesn't really gel with Faerie as the ancestral homeland of the sun elves. But I can't think of a better name to reflect the plane before the elves overshadowed the fey races. This one takes place even further in the past than -20,000... in a manner of speaking. The PC, Saela, is going to go back even further in time, but only by venturing into the dreams of an ancient, dying-but-not-dead god in order to seek out Uilia Mihumien, the lost elvish god of travel and exploration who herself got lost or imprisoned in the dream past.
Gray Richardson 05-06-07, 02:01 AM	Sounds good! One thought, there would likely have been both a plane of Faerie and a separate plane of Arvanador back at that time, as the fey creator race had their own plane of Faerie, and the Seldarine had already interloped sometime circa -24,000 DR or possibly as far back as -30,000 DR (or even earlier). Arvandor would seem to have split off from Jotunheim (there are giantish ruins in Arvandor) which indicates that the elves stole it, bought it, tricked it, or conquered it from the giant gods. There should also probably be a Celestia or Seven Heavens as a home for the Archons, who probably entered the cosmology around the same time as the devils and demons. Celestia did not change its name to the House of the Triad until thousands of years later when Tyr arrived in the Realms and formed the Triad circa -247 DR. I might suggest separating the serpentfolk gods from the dragon gods, as the World Serpent probably had his own plane at one point--which would seem to currently take the form of the World Serpent Inn--but back in the day it probably looked very different. That is not to say your instincts are wrong, It could be that the dragon gods invaded that plane and took over a layer or region. Your cosmos, your call. Other than that it looks like a great deal of fun what you have set up. I find the history and archaeology of the FR planes to be fascinating, and you have clearly put a lot of thought and creative effort into your scheme. I hope you have a blast with your ancient planar adventuring! Good luck! :)
varyar 05-06-07, 08:20 AM	Thanks for the suggestions (esp. the Celestia one)! I'll do some fiddling with the list later today.
varyar 05-06-07, 11:17 AM	Et voila! Arvandor, a land of woods and crystal palaces where the Seldarine reside, having wrested the realm from the giants of Jotunheim. Celestia, a serene and heavenly mountain where the archons, powerful spirits of pure good, dwell in peace. Dragon Eyrie, the infinite mountain where the many gods of the dragons reside. Faerie, the forest home of the fairy folk and the many gods of the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. Jotunheim, the bleak, mountainous homeland of the giants and their gods, fierce foes of the elves. Scaly Halls, the marshy realm, closely linked to Dragon Eyrie, where the sarrukh and their mysterious gods make their home.
stclax_26 05-08-07, 12:33 AM	Very interesting! If you don't mind divulging more spoilers for your campaign, I would love to read how you fleshed out these bygone, pre-Great Tree planes. Andrew
varyar 05-08-07, 10:34 AM	Very interesting! If you don't mind divulging more spoilers for your campaign, I would love to read how you fleshed out these bygone, pre-Great Tree planes. To be honest, I haven't yet. :o I need to decide which ones will actually get visited and focus on those (definitely Arvandor, and one or two others) in terms of a longer write-up.
Nero's Boot 05-12-07, 09:22 AM	Maybe Fury's Heart was previously the home of primitive gods of rage and destruction, like Borem, with Talos being a recent interloper? --Talos could be in the process of conquering Fury's Heart NB
Nero's Boot 05-12-07, 09:31 AM	....also, maybe at one point, Talona dwelt with Moander in Offalmound, as did Ghaunadaur and the demon prince Zuggtmoy. Only later, as Netheril arose, did Talona, Ghaunadaur and Zuggtmoy move to other planes. --at one point, Offalmound might have had five or six gods dwelling in it NB
XHereticX 05-12-07, 10:36 AM	Maybe Fury's Heart was previously the home of primitive gods of rage and destruction, like Borem, with Talos being a recent interloper? --Talos could be in the process of conquering Fury's Heart NB Talos is a extremely ancient deity(the 1st created by Shar and selune's battles) that I think has ruled Fury's Heart for a long time. Before that I think the plane was most likely the home of evil elementals or something like that. I have always assumed that Borem and the lost gods duelled on the Barrens of Doom and Despair. And the Abyss and Nine Hells might have been very different before the fiends interloped and colonized the planes.
Gray Richardson 05-12-07, 10:53 AM	One thing to remember is that Talos and Talona are two of the oldest gods in the universe, having been created in the War of Light & Darkness between at the dawn of time. Up to that point, Selûne and Shar had lived in harmony with Chauntea, until Selûne and Chauntea conspired against Shar to create a sun to provide warmth and light. Shar felt betrayed by this and so launched her war against them, and from this divine conflict spawned the original gods of War, Murder, Death, Disease, Destruction and other fell gods. These new gods would have established their own divine realms and planes at that time. Destruction (Talos) likely created Fury's Heart as a dark mirror of Chauntea's House of Nature, possibly even corrupting and tearing off a chunk of her plane to form his own. Talona (Disease) has likely lived in the Barrens from the beginning and may have even helped create the plane along with the other "fell gods". The Barrens was the original plane of evil for Toril's cosmology. I suspect that the original god of Murder also had his realm in the Barrens. Although, what is interesting is that Murder and Death were originally two different entities, but by the time of Netheril the two were consolidated as the one god Jergal. This intriguing fact implies that at some point either the god of Death or the god of Murder killed the other and took his portfolio. Perhaps Jergal was the one to do this, although Jergal is not the original holder of either portfolio, as he would appear to be either an ascended mortal spellweaver or an interloper god from the spellweaver pantheon. The Fugue Plane would have likely been created by the original god of Death, whoever he was. War (Targus/Tempus/Garagos) would have also formed his plane of War around this time, so some version of Warrior's Rest or a battle plane has likely existed from the beginning as well.
Gray Richardson 05-12-07, 11:11 AM	It is thought that Moander is actually an ascended demon lord. I suspect he might even be an Obyrith. Originally his realm of Offalmound was located on the 223rd layer of the Abyss, also called Rarandreth. It seems likely that if this became a separate plane, that he wrenched his layer free from the Abyss, much as Lolth has recently done, to form his own plane.
MarkusTay63 05-12-07, 01:09 PM	Sounds good! One thought, there would likely have been both a plane of Faerie and a separate plane of Arvanador back at that time, as the fey creator race had their own plane of Faerie, and the Seldarine had already interloped sometime circa -24,000 DR or possibly as far back as -30,000 DR (or even earlier). Arvandor would seem to have split off from Jotunheim (there are giantish ruins in Arvandor) which indicates that the elves stole it, bought it, tricked it, or conquered it from the giant gods.I have it where the Fey were the FIRST creator race, but because of their knack for Glamours (illusion magic) they were able to hide from the other creator races when they began to appear. Also, the had innate shapechanging abilities (magical, not natural like the Batrachi), so they could appear as anyone or anything. My entire take on them is as follows - The original homeland of the Fey was in Osse, where they lived and frolicked for millenia (True Fey are immortal). Eventually, being inquisitive creatures by nature, they began to explore other worlds and planes. Unfortunately, they found out that the further they went from their homeland, the weaker they would become. On other 'prime' worlds they would loose many of their abilities, and in the outer planes they could actually grow old and die! They figured out a system where they could periodically come back to their homeland in Osse (called Fäerie) and rest for awhile, and that would replenish them. After a time, some of their mages developed a type of magic that would allow them to take a 'piece of Fäerie' with them wherever they traveled (the Windwalker is an artifact from this time). However, problems still arose occasionally because certain planes and worlds were not easy to travel to or get away from. This is when they created the GREATEST magic ritual ever conceived by non-devine beings (being back before Mystra's ban helped). They decided to take their homeland with them! Fäerie was a massive plateau in central Osse, and the ritual allowed them to tear the entire plateau free of Faerûn and create their own demi-plane. The plane was bordered by mists, and by walking into the mists Fey could easily come and go on an infinite number of worlds. The area where Fäerie had previously been became a barren landscape (called the Osse Outback today), and is the largest known magic-dead zone in Realmspace. Some few Fey chose to remain behind, but they had to 'anchor' themselves to something in nature in order to retain their immortality (hence Dryads, Fossergrim, KT spirits, etc...). Over time, several things occurred - The Fey born after Fäerie was seperated from Osse had 'dwindled'. They were not as powerful as the originals, and they were not immortal. It was slow in coming, but with each generation the 'new' Fey lived less and less, until today they live a mere thousand years. Many of these 'children of the Fey' began to break away from their parent race, not feeling the same connection to the land as the True Fey did. Many became 'stuck' in shapes their parents had taken at the time of their birth, because they lacked the Fey's natural shapechanging abilities. This is how many of the lesser Fey races came to be - the Centaurs, Saytrs, etc... The Fey children that still looked 'Elfen' became known as the Sidhe, while those that still had the tall and regal bearing like their parents became known as the Alfar. Over the millenium the Alfar split into 12 great tribes - the Daoine Shee (gold), the LiosAlfar (light), the Vanir (Moon), etc.. The children broke away from their parents (that is a grand tale in and of itself) and formed their own realm called Aryvandor, on the misty borders of Fäerie. Their leader built a magnificent city, Tintageer, and lead them for several millenium, until their faith in him raised him amongst the powers. After several others of these Alfar (now called Elves) 'ascended', they chose to break their land away from their mortal followers, much as their Fey ancestors had done in the past. They took with them much of the lands surrounding Tintageer, leaving behind just an island in the Sea of Dreams. Aryvandor became it's own demi-plane, although many believe it's located on Arboria. The truth is that it is a seperate realm that you can enter from most worlds, but when you leave and step through the borders of Aryvandor you are automatically brought back to the place you entered from. Their is an entire forest on Arboria that acts as a portal, hence the confusion. Eventually Fäerie itself broke off several other realms, like the demi-plane of dread, which is a dark mirror of the beauty and harmony of Fäerie. It is said the the Unseelie did this, and the evil realm of Ladinion (on the border of Fäerie) still has connections to both. Then the god of sleep took it upon himself to gather together three realms to orbit his own, and this triumverate of demi-planes is known as Fantasia. It includes Somnambula (Plane of Dreams), Nocturnia (The Nightmare Lands), and Fäerie (Daydreams, sometimes called 'fancies). Each of these three is still it's own seperate demi-plane, but each has infinate connections to other planes as well (and in the case of Nocturnia, parts of it actually exist on another demi-plane). The god of Dreams and sleep does not rule these realms, he merely keeps them linked and close at hand for his own uses; each has it's own ruler. As for the true Fey themselves, well... they're still around... if you know where to look. ;) The primitive aboriginies of Osse have legends of the time of the 'spirit people', and occasionally their powerful Shamans still go to visit them... in the "Dreamtime". :D And that, in a nutshell, is Fäerie. I started research on it for a different game system back in the late 70's, but the company I was writing the supplement for moved to the west Coast and I lost touch. Over the years I have adapted most of it to the various iterations of the D&D system, and have most recently added in the part about Osse. After all, canon does say the Fey started on Toril. :cool: EDIT: I almost forgot! - A LINK (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/54652539/) to my latest version of Fäerie
varyar 05-12-07, 01:30 PM	Excellent stuff all around. :) A couple new additions to the list: Battle Eaves, a plane of constant twilight and infinite woodland fringes where warrior spirits clash in endless battles. Dweomerheart, a realm where magic reaches its ultimate potential under the guardianship of nine wise gods. (Mystryl and eight lesser powers for the eight schools of magic) I'm thinking of at least coming up with names and portfolios for the human pantheon (or at least the one for the area Saela the PC is going to visit in the dream-past). Selûne, Shar, Chauntea, Mystryl, the sun god, Death, Murder, War, a few nature gods... Does anybody have the information/speculation on the Talfir pantheon handy?
MarkusTay63 05-12-07, 01:40 PM	Does anybody have the information/speculation on the Talfir pantheon handy?Nothing official, but I have them using the Celtic Pantheon, the only survivors of which (at the time of modern Talfir) would have been Ohgma, Silvanus, and Goibhnie (Gond). I have a theory that Mystra is somehow connected to Mystara, but I haven't figured out what yet. Also, since this was before The Great Tree, can we call this proto-cosmology "The Sapling". ;)
varyar 05-12-07, 01:50 PM	Nothing official, but I have them using the Celtic Pantheon, the only survivors of which (at the time of modern Talfir) would have been Ohgma, Silvanus, and Goibhnie (Gond). Oh, not a bad idea. I have a theory that Mystra is somehow connected to Mystara, but I haven't figured out what yet. My knowledge of the Mystara setting is essentially nil, but this sounds interesting. Also, since this was before The Great Tree, can we call this proto-cosmology "The Sapling". ;) Heh.
XHereticX 05-13-07, 05:01 PM	It is thought that Moander is actually an ascended demon lord. I suspect he might even be an Obyrith. Originally his realm of Offalmound was located on the 223rd layer of the Abyss, also called Rarandreth. It seems likely that if this became a separate plane, that he wrenched his layer free from the Abyss, much as Lolth has recently done, to form his own plane. Or maybe he could even be a Baernloth, since his portfolios seem to fit very well with the Baernloth theme. As for this proto planes theory, the PGTF did say that the Barrens and Blood Rift were originally one plane. Maybe all the fiendish planes were torn off from the Barrens when new evil interlopers showed up, since it is wisely assumed that the Barrens are the original evil plane.