Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zacharov 07-13-07, 06:48 PM	Now I've been wondering where most of the Finnish Pantheon disappeared... I know they went away to some location, but WHERE? it's a shame there aren't that many of them left in the FR :P (Mielikki, Loviatar...)
Gray Richardson 07-13-07, 07:23 PM	Mielikki and Loviatar are going strong in the Realms. Kiputytto also came to the Realms but was killed and absorbed by Talona. No doubt the others came over too, but were less successful and could get no purchase in the Realms. Their Realms fragments died out long ago, and are long forgotten or absorbed into other gods. Likely, Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal even killed off a few. They may have migrated to other worlds and could still survive in some aspect on worlds far from their native Finnland. Back on Earth, Ukko secretly runs Nokia under an assumed human name. Tuonetar also works for Nokia as a call center manager. Ahto constructs cruise ships for Aker Finnyards. Hissi went into politics and is currently a member of the Finnish parliament. Ilmatar runs a dairy outside of Jyväskylä. Tuoni is a geologist for Neste Oil. Untamo had a brief stint as a prog rock musician of some note in the late 60's, but moved to Los Angeles in 1982 where he became a noted producer for Capital Records. Last I heard he was working for DreamWorks SKG in their IP department procuring licenses for musical works to use in films.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-13-07, 08:38 PM	The pantheon as a whole is largely fading away, though some of its members like Loviatar, etc have gained a purchase against slipping further into the twilight of an Astral grave. The rest of the pantheon is still out there at large on the planes, but scattered (though Surma is imprisoned in Carceri) and not all that interested in one another for the most part. Those with worshippers on toril seem likely to branch out further to other worlds beyond their original worshipper base and likely evolve in portfolio and form once they outlast their forther brethren.
MarkusTay63 07-14-07, 04:08 AM	Kiputytto also came to the Realms but was killed and absorbed by Talona.When did this happen? :confused: I pegged Talona AS Kiputytto, but is just known under a different name now, like Baast/Sharess.
Old Sage 07-14-07, 04:25 AM	Markus, see the entry for "Talona" in Faiths & Avatars. In Ed's original "Down-to-Earth Divinity" from DRAGON #54, Talona is Kiputytto named.
Zacharov 07-14-07, 08:03 AM	Back on Earth, Ukko secretly runs Nokia under an assumed human name. Tuonetar also works for Nokia as a call center manager. Ahto constructs cruise ships for Aker Finnyards. Hissi went into politics and is currently a member of the Finnish parliament. Ilmatar runs a dairy outside of Jyväskylä. Tuoni is a geologist for Neste Oil. Untamo had a brief stint as a prog rock musician of some note in the late 60's, but moved to Los Angeles in 1982 where he became a noted producer for Capital Records. Last I heard he was working for DreamWorks SKG in their IP department procuring licenses for musical works to use in films. OMG that's hilarious :D I had no idea ;) But yeah, it's a shame that they've disappeared.. they are quite cool deities.. let's hope someone brings at least one of them back :) I'd love to see Väinämöinen in the FR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4in%C3%A4m%C3%B6inen I remember seeing his D&D stats once... I think he was a bard/fighter... http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/v/vainamoinen2.jpg
Psionycx 07-14-07, 08:05 AM	It's like a sequel to American Gods!
Zacharov 07-14-07, 08:13 AM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaasa I think this is kind of funny... I'd love to start a game with "Finnish" characters in the FR... a small village somewhere in the north :P perhaps an adventuring group with a goal to revive a former deity from the Finnish pantheon :) hmmm....
MarkusTay63 07-14-07, 02:11 PM	I'm doing some work on this so people can run Finnish-style campaigns in FR, I found a perfect placement for them. Unfortunatley, that campaign information will not be released for about six months.
Zacharov 07-14-07, 02:57 PM	I'm doing some work on this so people can run Finnish-style campaigns in FR, I found a perfect placement for them. Unfortunatley, that campaign information will not be released for about six months. hurry up! :D lol no but seriously, that's very nice to hear :) I remember playing Icewind Dale II and finding the small village with Finnish people living there :P it made my day!
Mirtek 07-14-07, 06:41 PM	No doubt the others came over too, but were less successful and could get no purchase in the Realms. Don't think so. The reason for which Mielikki, Loviatar and Kiputytto tried to etablish themselves in new pantheons was the finnish pantheon fading away and being content with it. It only were those three who thought of themselves being not yet ready to move on to the divine afterlife with the rest of their brethen.
ripvanwormer 07-14-07, 08:25 PM	On Hallowed Ground does suggest that Mielikki, Kiputytto, and Loviatar were the only Finnish gods who sought worshippers on Toril. It also suggests that Tyr was the only Norse god who tried to gain a worshipper base there (because he fell from prominence in his pantheon), and Tyche the only one of the Olympians (because Nike and Eris were trying to get rid of her). On the other hand, Powers & Pantheons says that Toril had "an influx from a land of desert governed by the seasonal pulse of a mighty river; then an influx from two neighboring lands---one a land of glory and empire, the other a patchwork of city-states and bold philosophies---whose pantheons reflected, but did not precisely duplicate, each other; followed by folk from a more rugged land tied to nature, the sea, and the warrior history of its dozen-king greater god." That seems to indicate that the Greek, Roman, and Celtic pantheons (at least) were once worshiped in full by people dwelling in Faerun. Perhaps that means the Finnish and Norse pantheons were not. Or perhaps they were, and they completely died out, with the interlopers arriving in a second wave later on. Or perhaps they were and they almost completely died out, with the present-day interlopers only sticking it out because they wanted it so much more. Dragon #290 indicates that the reason the Finnish god Ukko is fading in popularity is because of competition from Dazhbog and Perun, incidently.
Mula 07-15-07, 12:34 AM	The Finnish pantheon's original worshipers abandoned their gods and were converted to another faith. This faith is monotheistic and very successful. Mielikki and Loviatar, though, managed to get a new presence in Toril. The others probably drift in the Astral now. They're supposed to be revived at some point, I think. Or that's what Väinämöinen claimed... maybe.
ripvanwormer 07-15-07, 12:56 AM	Well, apart from Kiputytto they're not dead yet. The world or worlds where they're currently worshiped may not be Earth, however, at least not exactly the Earth we know. Wherever they are, they're facing competition from the Slavic pantheon and others, and the problem that their worshipers seem to prefer their heroes to their gods.
Gray Richardson 07-15-07, 01:26 AM	Don't think so. The reason for which Mielikki, Loviatar and Kiputytto tried to etablish themselves in new pantheons was the finnish pantheon fading away and being content with it. It only were those three who thought of themselves being not yet ready to move on to the divine afterlife with the rest of their brethen.Possibly, but my thinking is that Mielikki, Loviatar, and Kiptytto could not have interloped to Toril on their own, but rather had to have some worshippers come over and "bring" their gods with them. The most likely explanation is that a group (or groups) of Finns wandered through a portal and ended up in Toril. This probably happened around 2000 years ago. Perhaps they only had those three as their patrons, but they likely worshipped all the gods of the Finnish pantheon, and so I think it likely that more of the Finnish gods had an opportunity to come over. Perhaps the other gods never availed themselves of the opportunity like Mielikki, Loviatar and Kiputytto did. Or perhaps some of the others came over too but their worship died out early on, either from dwindling faith or from direct competition from native Faerûnian gods. Or maybe they just did not have enough of a critical mass of worshippers to make the leap. But it is worth considering that all the Finnish gods might have had a presence once in Faerûn, if only briefly. Mielikki probably flourished because she was aided by Silvanus who took her under his wing and pretty much adopted her as his daughter. Loviatar was probably aided by throwing her lot in with Bane. While Kiputytto went up against Talona all on her own and lost out. If the other Finnish gods had made some successful alliances with native gods, they might still have a presence on Toril to this day.
MarkusTay63 07-15-07, 03:41 AM	Nahhhh You're all wrong. :P The Finnish pantheon STARTED on Toril, and then interloped to Earth and other worlds. Think 'time frame' people - The Finnish pantheon was worshipped here what? 2 or 3,000 years ago? Calimshan was already like 5000 years old by then. Gods appeared on Toril way before they did in other spheres. Mielikki and Loviatar aren't interlopers, they are survivors. ;)
boards 07-15-07, 09:04 AM	On the other hand, Powers & Pantheons says that Toril had "an influx from a land of desert governed by the seasonal pulse of a mighty river; then an influx from two neighboring lands---one a land of glory and empire, the other a patchwork of city-states and bold philosophies---whose pantheons reflected, but did not precisely duplicate, each other; followed by folk from a more rugged land tied to nature, the sea, and the warrior history of its dozen-king greater god." That seems to indicate that the Greek, Roman, and Celtic pantheons (at least) were once worshiped in full by people dwelling in Faerun. I take it the Dozen-King is celtic? I wonder where the Greek/Roman gods were supposed to be worshipped. Obvious culture for Greeks is Chessanter but they were part of Unther so presumably worshipped those gods.
Zacharov 07-15-07, 09:16 AM	Nahhhh You're all wrong. :P The Finnish pantheon STARTED on Toril, and then interloped to Earth and other worlds. Think 'time frame' people - The Finnish pantheon was worshipped here what? 2 or 3,000 years ago? Calimshan was already like 5000 years old by then. Gods appeared on Toril way before they did in other spheres. Mielikki and Loviatar aren't interlopers, they are survivors. ;) The Fenno-Ugric tribes that settled down in Finland during the stone age (5300 BC) worshiped SOME of the OLD deities in the Finnish (and Slavic) Pantheon... but the Pantheon was worshiped in its entirety between 3200 BC and the christian crusades (~1150 AD).. and still some time after that. So I don't know :P
ripvanwormer 07-15-07, 09:26 AM	I take it the Dozen-King is celtic? Yup. Daghdha the Dozen-King, of the Tuatha de Danaan. As for the time frame, time between Earth and Toril may not always be linear. Portals might have opened, for example, to Greece in the 5th Century BCE and to Rome in the 1st Century CE simultaneously. Even if it's always linear, the dates given by Zacharov and Gray Richardson seem compatible.
MarkusTay63 07-15-07, 01:28 PM	I know, but that was a set-up for something I'm working on. ;) I take it the Dozen-King is celtic? I wonder where the Greek/Roman gods were supposed to be worshipped. Obvious culture for Greeks is Chessanter but they were part of Unther so presumably worshipped those gods.Sune is based on Aphrodite, so one can assume that that is her name on Toril. She either absorbed a local deity and took the name, or she simply takes different names in each sphere she has a presence in. Gond supposedly is based on Hephaestus, but the name leads me to believe that he is related to Goibhnie. It could be that both interloped onto Toril, and at some point one absorbed the other, becoming the new god Gond. Figure he got an intelligence boost from that and added inventivness to his portfolio.
Mula 07-16-07, 12:54 AM	The Fenno-Ugric tribes that settled down in Finland during the stone age (5300 BC) worshiped SOME of the OLD deities in the Finnish (and Slavic) Pantheon... but the Pantheon was worshiped in its entirety between 3200 BC and the christian crusades (~1150 AD).. and still some time after that. So I don't know :P Actually, there never was a "Finnish pantheon" as we now speak of it in this thread. The ancient Finns were a mixed lot, and their beliefs varied between people (there's a pretty distinct separation between the old western and eastern folks' beliefs, I think...). The concept of a deity and a spirit weren't defined very well - in D&D terms, the ancient Finnish religion was probably as much druidic as it was clerical.
BadCatMan 07-16-07, 01:54 AM	The references in P&P are odd, as FR never really received any Greek or Roman civilisations. Chessenta, as likely as it is, evolved out of Untheric colonisation of the Turami with Jhaamdathan influences. The Turami I assume are native. The Untherites are of course Mulan brought to Toril by the Imaskari. What FR did get from the Imaskari are Egyptians (who became Mulhorandi), Sumerians and Babylonians (who merged to become the Untherites), and the pantheons of all three. I believe that the P&P reference instead should apply to these three nations, after a quick Wiki. "A patchwork of city-states and bold philosophies" is Sumeria, which was a land of city-states and seem to have been quite knowledgeable and interested in education. "A land of glory and empire" would be Babylon, during their Neo-Babylonian Empire period. "Whose pantheons reflected but did not precisely duplicate each other" probably refers to the ancient practice of equating the gods of the various faiths (the statement vague enough to apply to any two polytheistic pantheons) and points to their later merger into the Untheric pantheon. As for the Greek/Roman gods we really only have a few uncertain and inconsistent references. Tyche, a Netherese god. St Dionysus, an Ilmateri saint. Chronos and Kronus who merged together due to similar names (this was back on Earth) and a following in ancient Cormyr, and later merged with Labelas Enoreth. And a whole bunch of other gods who are sorta similar to such-and-such a Realms deity, but not quite. Tyche and Chronos/Kronus probably didn't come over in any mass-migration, probably just with an independent planar traveller and subsequently gained a foothold on Toril.
ripvanwormer 07-16-07, 02:13 AM	The references in P&P are odd, as FR never really received any Greek or Roman civilisations. It did; they just didn't survive to the present day. I believe that the P&P reference instead should apply to these three nations, after a quick Wiki. That doesn't work, since the Sumerians and Babylonians didn't dwell in "neighboring lands." They lived in the exact same land. It's clearly the Greeks and Romans they were talking about.
Gray Richardson 07-16-07, 02:46 AM	Sune is based on Aphrodite, so one can assume that that is her name on Toril. She either absorbed a local deity and took the name, or she simply takes different names in each sphere she has a presence in.My own preference is to believe that Sune is the daughter of Selune and Lathander, born sometime after the fall of Netheril. But that's just my own take. I can't rule out the possibility that she is an interloper goddess, but if she were anyone, I bet it wouldn't be Aphrodite, but rather her complement in the Roman pantheon. After all, what do you get when you spell "Venus" spelled backwards? ;)
MarkusTay63 07-16-07, 03:05 AM	ATTENTION: The following is NON-canon. Once they conquered all of the lands from the Great Ice Sea to the Utter East, the Imaskari once again looked to expand their borders. They wished to colonize the region around the Alamber sea, and to that effect they opened up two portals and brought forth tens of thousands of people from another world to work on their plantations. At first everything worked out fine, and the newcomers were known as the 'Dathens' - in truth only one group was called that at first, but like the Mulan that would come later, they became known as one generic ethnic group. These two groups were 'seeded' all along the the coast of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and flourished there. The Empire had to keep several legions on hand, because these people were very warlike and clever. They tried to curb these tendencies by building great arenas were gladitorial combats and other 'war-games' could be played out in order to let the population get out its frustration. With time, the Imaskari grew lax and recalled most of their troops home, while the Dathens grew strong and honed their fighting skills. And then the unthinkable happened - the slaves revolted! It began with a gladiator named Jhaamdonis, who was in charge of a group of psionic-power wielding gladiators. He killed the arena masters and took an entire section of the city before troops arrived, but by then it was too late. News of the revolt had spread, and the city-slaves rebelled against their masters, looting and pillaging the great city of Skuldoria, and even put all of the overseers to death. The Imaskari sent their brutal Tuigan horsemen, Mighty Mechanized Jugernaughts, and scores of powerful Portificers to put down the rebellion. However, they weren't counting on the slave's allies! Over the years, the folk they had 'imported' from elsewhere kept up there ancient religous traditions, and over time their gods were able to manifest on Toril! Not all came, but enough to turn back the armies of Imaskar. They laid waste to the wizards and warforged, and it was only because of their speed that the Tuigan were able to return to their masters defeated. The slaves had won the day, and left the lands of the Imaskari. Half the former slaves chose to follow Jhaamdonis, to found an empire of their own far to the west. The other half just wanted to finally live in peace, and founded several city-states around what would become known as the bay of Chessenta. As for the Imaskari, they obliterated all record of this early failure. Having learned their lesson, they then began research on how to block gods from entering Toril's sphere.... Years later, when the Mulan finally broke from Imaskar as well and formed their own nations in the lands owned by the original slaves, they encountered the Dathen people. And so it came to be recorded in the ancient histories of the Pharoahs that the Mulan came first, and all othes came later... And so it was, and so it was recorded, and re-recorded, and so on....
Gray Richardson 07-16-07, 03:06 AM	Actually, there never was a "Finnish pantheon" as we now speak of it in this thread. The ancient Finns were a mixed lot, and their beliefs varied between people (there's a pretty distinct separation between the old western and eastern folks' beliefs, I think...). The concept of a deity and a spirit weren't defined very well - in D&D terms, the ancient Finnish religion was probably as much druidic as it was clerical.Perhaps, but the Finnish Pantheon we are discussing is really the D&D version of the Finnish Pantheon as set forth in the original Deities & Demigods. Well, actually it goes back even further, because before AD&D existed, it was printed in the supplement Gods, Demigods & Heroes. The Finnish Pantheon of D&D is the pantheon worshiped in the Earth of the D&D multiverse. Not our Earth, but a gaming version of Earth that was just one of many crystal spheres accessible to the Great Wheel cosmology. As such, it does not necessarily follow closely the real world mythology of the Finnish peoples. Nor do any of the D&D pantheons follow closely Earth's real world mythologies. But the gods of that Earth's Finns do seem to have established their worship in other crystal spheres of the Great Wheel. So, presumably there is another world (or worlds) out there in which that pantheon still thrives, even though the D&D Earth has largely fallen away from polytheism and has become a more technological world where magic does not flourish.
Zacharov 07-16-07, 05:55 AM	Actually, there never was a "Finnish pantheon" as we now speak of it in this thread. The ancient Finns were a mixed lot, and their beliefs varied between people (there's a pretty distinct separation between the old western and eastern folks' beliefs, I think...). The concept of a deity and a spirit weren't defined very well - in D&D terms, the ancient Finnish religion was probably as much druidic as it was clerical. You're actually right about that, there's not been a real Pantheon of Finnish Gods... they were more considered powerful spirits than real gods... at least when you compare with the Norse mythology which has a very distinct Pantheon-style. Oh and there has been no separation, the same belief in the spirits and gods was spread out starting from Lappland and even all the way to the Ural mountains! Of course the names of the deities varied a lot, but they still were the same lot :) Druidic? No not really, more shamanistic. But does shamanism turn into druidism when translated to D&D?
boards 07-16-07, 07:56 AM	I know, but that was a set-up for something I'm working on. ;) Sune is based on Aphrodite, so one can assume that that is her name on Toril. She either absorbed a local deity and took the name, or she simply takes different names in each sphere she has a presence in. Gond supposedly is based on Hephaestus, but the name leads me to believe that he is related to Goibhnie. It could be that both interloped onto Toril, and at some point one absorbed the other, becoming the new god Gond. Figure he got an intelligence boost from that and added inventivness to his portfolio. So where did Sune/Aphrodite and Tyche first get worshipped in Faerun then?
Mirtek 07-16-07, 01:11 PM	On the other hand, Powers & Pantheons says that Toril had "an influx from a land of desert governed by the seasonal pulse of a mighty river; then an influx from two neighboring lands---one a land of glory and empire, the other a patchwork of city-states and bold philosophies---whose pantheons reflected, but did not precisely duplicate, each other; followed by folk from a more rugged land tied to nature, the sea, and the warrior history of its dozen-king greater god." That seems to indicate that the Greek, Roman, and Celtic pantheons (at least) were once worshiped in full by people dwelling in Faerun. The land by the river is Egypt and this refers to the Mulhorandi pantheon, the other land is Babylon and refers to the Untheric pantheon
MarkusTay63 07-16-07, 02:47 PM	Actually, you could be correct. I had always thought that that second group referenced the Roman Empire and the Greek City-states, and their similar (same) gods. However, it could be a reference to the Baylonians and Sumerians, with their similar (same) gods. I don't know enough about Babylonian and Sumerian culture, but the Persians could easily fit the bill for a land of "glory and empire". I suppose this was a the intent of the designer, but his own knowledge of the region was sparse, hence the Sumerian City-states sounding more like Greek.
ripvanwormer 07-16-07, 03:33 PM	The land by the river is Egypt and this refers to the Mulhorandi pantheon, the other land is Babylon and refers to the Untheric pantheon The quote refers to four distinct lands: a land by a river, then an influx from two neighboring lands, and finally the land of nature and sea. That's four. You're right that the land by the river is Egypt. The two "neighboring lands" cannot be construed as anything but Greece and Rome (Italy). The last is Ireland. I'm not sure which of these last three you're calling the "other land." Mesopotamia isn't on the list. We know there was an influx of immigrants from there at one point, but they aren't mentioned in that particular quote. This shows that the list isn't exhaustive; immigrations from Finland and Iceland are also strong possibilities.
Gray Richardson 07-16-07, 07:45 PM	So where did Sune/Aphrodite and Tyche first get worshipped in Faerun then?Tyche was worshiped in ancient Netheril, but we do not know for sure where she was first worshiped. I tend to think that she has been around at least as long as before the Seldarine war with Araushnee, as her realm of Olympus is mentioned in the Evermeet novel, so that would put her back at least as far as -30,000 DR. I suspect that Tyche was one of the gods that heeded the call of Selûne for aid against Shar and her armies of fiends in the War of Light and Darkness, in which case she has probably had a presence of some kind in the Realms since the dawn of time (Realms time that is). If so, then she might be a very ancient deity indeed. Probably she has been prayed to by humans for luck since before recorded human history in the Realms. As for Sune, my best guess is that she was originally part of the Talfiric pantheon, way back when. She has prominent temples in Waterdeep, Daerlun, Neverwinter, Everlund, Silverymoon, and Crimmor, Riatavin, Ordulin, and Selgaunt among others. Which is all over the North and in the western part of Faerûn. Lathander was Talfiric, so if he is her father, then it would be natural for her to be part of the Talfiric pantheon as well.
MarkusTay63 07-17-07, 01:36 AM	The quote refers to four distinct lands: a land by a river, then an influx from two neighboring lands, and finally the land of nature and sea. That's four. You're right that the land by the river is Egypt. The two "neighboring lands" cannot be construed as anything but Greece and Rome (Italy).Not so, if you had read my previous post. It could just be our 'western predjudices' coming into play. Babylonia could easily fit the bill for a land of "Glory and Empire", and Sumeria was a group of City-states. Just like the Greeks and Romans, they're two religions are closely related (actually the same, but time changed the names), so the passage in source fits them very well.
Soltares 07-17-07, 11:17 AM	The rule of Finnish dieties being adopted in the Realms is that they have to be hotties. The 'Minster don't do the fuglies.
ripvanwormer 07-17-07, 11:55 AM	Not so, if you had read my previous post. It could just be our 'western predjudices' coming into play. Babylonia could easily fit the bill for a land of "Glory and Empire", and Sumeria was a group of City-states. Just like the Greeks and Romans, they're two religions are closely related (actually the same, but time changed the names), so the passage in source fits them very well. Not so. Like I said before, the passage specifically says they were neighboring lands. The Babylonian Empire and the Sumerian city-states weren't neighboring lands: it'd be like saying that the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany were neighboring lands, or like saying pre-Columbian Mexico and post-colonial Mexico were neighboring lands. It ignores the plain meaning of the word "neighboring" in favor of some weird stretchy metaphorical interpretation of the word. It's simply not a viable interpretation. Sumeria had no philosophers, either - there weren't any philosophers in the sense modern philosophers use the word until ancient Greece. The only way to interpret Sumeria's clerks and priests as "philosophers" is to ignore the meaning of the word and substitute your own vaguely analogous definition. The excerpt in question is really unambiguous: Egypt, Greece, Rome, Ireland. Those are the only places that fit the descriptions. Anything else requires stretching or twisting the words used, and unless you think Eric L. Boyd was trying to trick you, that should be a flashing red light that you're not reading it correctly.
stclax_26 07-17-07, 09:17 PM	I hope I'm not wresting the topic too much, but a question comes to mind: If the other Finns somehow survived their introduction into Faerun, where would their worshippers be located/their worship be strongest? I saw Sossal as an excellent candidate.
Zacharov 07-18-07, 06:36 AM	I hope I'm not wresting the topic too much, but a question comes to mind: If the other Finns somehow survived their introduction into Faerun, where would their worshippers be located/their worship be strongest? I saw Sossal as an excellent candidate. They're not arctic gods :) and the Finnish people aren't arctic either ;) I'd say more or less all around Faerûn... http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/char/deity018.html#Ukko
Zacharov 07-18-07, 06:45 AM	The rule of Finnish dieties being adopted in the Realms is that they have to be hotties. The 'Minster don't do the fuglies. they're hotties alright :D Umm.. and this is a picture from the national epic of Finland, "Kalevala" (Väinämöinen fighting off Louhi; Loviatar) http://www.rug.nl/scholieren/profielwerkstukken/pws/afbeeldingen/kalevala1.gif and this is.. something completely different yet somehow very much the same ;) http://duckman.pettho.com/sc_story/kalevala.jpg :P
stclax_26 07-18-07, 04:14 PM	They're not arctic gods :) and the Finnish people aren't arctic either ;) I'd say more or less all around Faerûn... http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/char/deity018.html#Ukko True enough, but we aren't talking about the true Finnish people but the D&D version, just as with the their pantheon of gods. Besides, if the Netherese were intrepid enough to shift their northern sub-arctic climate (granted, with a 11th level spell) to a temperate one who's to say that the Sossarhim (sic?) could not do the same, yet in a different manner. My original question though was: had you or anyone else reading this thread decided that the other Finnish gods had successfully interloped into Faerun, where would you place them and their worshippers? I'm interested to hear any of your ideas. Thank you for the link, although On Hallowed Ground covers all of what the site covers along with some more juicy fluff. Interestingly enough, while I was perusing through Wiki learning about the Sampo, Seppo Ilmarinen, and Vainamoinen, I read the "Trivia" section and it spoke about a Scrooge McDuck adventure involving those topics and was wondering what the comic looked like. So, thank you for letting me get a small peek! :)
Zacharov 07-18-07, 04:17 PM	:D np... I've read the comic and it's hilarious! :)
MarkusTay63 07-20-07, 09:54 PM	I hope I'm not wresting the topic too much, but a question comes to mind: If the other Finns somehow survived their introduction into Faerun, where would their worshippers be located/their worship be strongest? I saw Sossal as an excellent candidate.Nope, try right across the water in Kalmyk... Kalmyk=Kalevala ;) Keep your eyes peeled for more... :D
Asgetrion 07-22-07, 07:16 PM	Hissi went into politics and is currently a member of the Finnish parliament. Actually, he was, in his mortal guise as 'Tony Halme' (following his questionable career as a professional wrestler in the U.S). Since politics were never his strong suit, he started to drink and retired from the parliament last year. ;) :D
MarkusTay63 07-23-07, 03:57 PM	So Americans aren't the only idiots who elect professional wrestlers into office? :D I guess that makes sense - they are just another form of 'actor'. ;)
stclax_26 07-26-07, 07:54 PM	Nope, try right across the water in Kalmyk... Kalmyk=Kalevala ;) Keep your eyes peeled for more... :D Wait, I don't understand, there's a place in FR named Kalmyk? Or do you mean the Oirat/Kalmyk ethnic group in the real world? If so, I still don't quite understand.