The nature of spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

The nature of spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
boards
06-23-07, 09:08 AM A couple of questions on spells.

1. In the Last Mythal trilogy the main character looks at a couple of mythals and sees "threads", while in one of the source books there is a pic of a mage checking wards and he sees what appears to be glyphs. So when casting a spell is a mage "knitting a web" like a spider, or are the really drawing glyphs, using words and spell components etc.

2. If a mage casts a spell, say acid arrow for example, is the arrow magic and as such can be dispelled, or does the magician simply call on magic to manipulate the elements to make the arrow. In this case the arrow is made of the elemental building blocks rather than the weave itself.

Cheers
Lord Karsus
06-23-07, 08:21 PM -Thus, the idea of a magical "Weave". When casting spells, a Mage pulls on the various strings and what not (metaphorically) to cast his/her spell.
Alac Luin
06-23-07, 10:10 PM A couple of questions on spells.

1. In the Last Mythal trilogy the main character looks at a couple of mythals and sees "threads", while in one of the source books there is a pic of a mage checking wards and he sees what appears to be glyphs. So when casting a spell is a mage "knitting a web" like a spider, or are the really drawing glyphs, using words and spell components etc.

FRCS pg 54
Whenever a spell, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, or magic item functions, the threads of the weave intertwine, knit, warp, twist and fold to make the effect possible."

Not every spellcaster is aware they are affecting the weave in this manner.

It is also harder to see the strands of the weave that make a spell effect, typically only a powerful mage can see the strands of a mythal as is the case with the Last Mythal books.

Almost any mage can cast detect magic and see where the weave is "knit" in a particular fashion, as is the case of the mage checking the glyphs.

Lets reverse this, as the mage placing the glyph.
The mage would write the glyph on the area he is warding, that is the action they know.
The combination of the material, verbal, and somatic components of the spell will twist the strands of the weave for the desired effect, the casting mage need not be aware of the strands themselves, but accepts that it happens.

2. If a mage casts a spell, say acid arrow for example, is the arrow magic and as such can be dispelled, or does the magician simply call on magic to manipulate the elements to make the arrow. In this case the arrow is made of the elemental building blocks rather than the weave itself.

This is something that is different, depending on the spell.
It can take DM interpretation depending on the spell.

In the case of Acid Arrow,
(from the 3.5 SRD)
Acid Arrow
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: One arrow of acid
Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
A magical arrow of acid springs from your hand and speeds to its target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The arrow deals 2d4 points of acid damage with no splash damage. For every three caster levels (to a maximum of 18th), the acid, unless somehow neutralized, lasts for another round, dealing another 2d4 points of damage in that round.
Material Component: Powdered rhubarb leaf and an adder’s stomach.
Focus: A dart.

we note the school of magic used...
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]

now we look at this (also from the SRD)....
"Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence."

now look at Acid Arrow agien and note "Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels"

The arrow can be dispelled by Dispel Magic or an Anti Magic Field (AMF).

Another spell we from the same school we can look at, Wall of Iron.
This one has Duration: Instantaneous.
So dispel magic will have no effect on the wall.

So, of you are a mage, and your foe is in an AMF, if you cast Acid Arrow, the arrow will dissipate at the edge of the AMF.
But, If you cast Iron Wall above your foe AND out of the range of the AMF, the newly created wall will still fall and hopefully crush your foe.
boards
06-24-07, 02:46 AM Ahh thanks Alac, that makes sense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boards 06-23-07, 09:08 AM	A couple of questions on spells. 1. In the Last Mythal trilogy the main character looks at a couple of mythals and sees "threads", while in one of the source books there is a pic of a mage checking wards and he sees what appears to be glyphs. So when casting a spell is a mage "knitting a web" like a spider, or are the really drawing glyphs, using words and spell components etc. 2. If a mage casts a spell, say acid arrow for example, is the arrow magic and as such can be dispelled, or does the magician simply call on magic to manipulate the elements to make the arrow. In this case the arrow is made of the elemental building blocks rather than the weave itself. Cheers
Lord Karsus 06-23-07, 08:21 PM	-Thus, the idea of a magical "Weave". When casting spells, a Mage pulls on the various strings and what not (metaphorically) to cast his/her spell.
Alac Luin 06-23-07, 10:10 PM	A couple of questions on spells. 1. In the Last Mythal trilogy the main character looks at a couple of mythals and sees "threads", while in one of the source books there is a pic of a mage checking wards and he sees what appears to be glyphs. So when casting a spell is a mage "knitting a web" like a spider, or are the really drawing glyphs, using words and spell components etc. FRCS pg 54 Whenever a spell, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, or magic item functions, the threads of the weave intertwine, knit, warp, twist and fold to make the effect possible." Not every spellcaster is aware they are affecting the weave in this manner. It is also harder to see the strands of the weave that make a spell effect, typically only a powerful mage can see the strands of a mythal as is the case with the Last Mythal books. Almost any mage can cast detect magic and see where the weave is "knit" in a particular fashion, as is the case of the mage checking the glyphs. Lets reverse this, as the mage placing the glyph. The mage would write the glyph on the area he is warding, that is the action they know. The combination of the material, verbal, and somatic components of the spell will twist the strands of the weave for the desired effect, the casting mage need not be aware of the strands themselves, but accepts that it happens. 2. If a mage casts a spell, say acid arrow for example, is the arrow magic and as such can be dispelled, or does the magician simply call on magic to manipulate the elements to make the arrow. In this case the arrow is made of the elemental building blocks rather than the weave itself. This is something that is different, depending on the spell. It can take DM interpretation depending on the spell. In the case of Acid Arrow, (from the 3.5 SRD) Acid Arrow Conjuration (Creation) [Acid] Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Effect: One arrow of acid Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No A magical arrow of acid springs from your hand and speeds to its target. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit your target. The arrow deals 2d4 points of acid damage with no splash damage. For every three caster levels (to a maximum of 18th), the acid, unless somehow neutralized, lasts for another round, dealing another 2d4 points of damage in that round. Material Component: Powdered rhubarb leaf and an adder’s stomach. Focus: A dart. we note the school of magic used... Conjuration (Creation) [Acid] now we look at this (also from the SRD).... "Creation: A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates (subject to the limits noted above). If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence." now look at Acid Arrow agien and note "Duration: 1 round + 1 round per three levels" The arrow can be dispelled by Dispel Magic or an Anti Magic Field (AMF). Another spell we from the same school we can look at, Wall of Iron. This one has Duration: Instantaneous. So dispel magic will have no effect on the wall. So, of you are a mage, and your foe is in an AMF, if you cast Acid Arrow, the arrow will dissipate at the edge of the AMF. But, If you cast Iron Wall above your foe AND out of the range of the AMF, the newly created wall will still fall and hopefully crush your foe.
boards 06-24-07, 02:46 AM	Ahh thanks Alac, that makes sense.