Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meldread 11-05-07, 12:14 AM	I originally thought about resurrecting Myrkul to replace Kelemvor and Velsharoon in the Faerunian Pantheon. I then started having second thoughts about what I was attempting, because I didn't think it would achieve what I wanted. My overall goal was to create an evil presence in the Realm's that was more sinister than Bane but more obvious than Shar. It had to be something that every living person on Toril dreaded and feared with every fiber of their bodies. I thought about having Myrkul absorb Bane's portfolio's after his resurrection, because over all Bane is rather bland. However, in 4E Bane looks to have the portfolio of war (at least in the Core Pantheon), which is what I think he needs to make him more interesting. I then re-evaluated what I was attempting to do. When I think of good deities the following two groups come to mind: Lathander, Mystra and Selune or Tyr, Torm and Ilmater. There is no unified group like the Triad for team evil, with the closest thing they have being the Gods of Fury. That wasn't what I was looking for in a triad-counter. I then realized that Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal used to serve that very purpose. I like the general direction 4E seemed to be heading with how deities are worshiped and handled. As a result I thought about creating something similar by bringing back the Dark Three and calling them the "Dark Trinity." I could then use them for my ultimate goal - an evil theocratic empire. Below are my first attempts in achieving this goal. The Dark Trinity would consist of Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal each of them holding a certain place in a mortals life and complimenting the other. Each of them would be Lawful Evil. Bane represents oppression, war, tyranny and strength within the mortal world. Bhaal would represent death, murder, genocide and slaughter. He compliments Bane's oppressive and war like nature, for every battle brings death and each death empowers Bhaal. Myrkul represents the dead, necromancy, and undeath. The actions of Bane bring death which empowers Bhaal, and in the end all slain end up before Myrkul and within his divine realm. Through the power of Myrkul the dead rise again in undeath to fuel Bane's dark army. So as you can see each god compliments and empowers the other which makes it seem much more sinister than a single deity. To make things more like 4E the Dark Trinity would be united in a single church with a shared priesthood. Each priest gives praise to each of the dark powers in the Trinity but may favor one over another in their day-to-day life. In addition to the Dark Trinity there are various "saint" like servitors. They would include Loviatar and Talona in particular, among others, some of which may be regional powers. To make things more like 4E the Dark Trinity would be united in a single church with a shared priesthood. Each priest gives praise to each of the dark powers in the Trinity but may favor one over another in their day-to-day life. In addition to the Dark Trinity there are various "saint" like servitors. They would include a number of servitor deities, some of which may be regional powers. If you want to make up some servitor deities, feel free, because I am approaching them in a similar vain to saints in the Catholic Church. This means there can be an unlimited number of them. Dark Trinity The Lords of Darkness, the Twisted Three, the Dark Three, the Dark Trinity Gods: Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal Servitors: Gargauth, Assuran, Talona, Loviatar, Jergal Cleric Alignment: LN, N, CN, LE, NE, CE Teachings: The teachings of the Triad are a failure; it presumes that we are all saints or gods, not men. Look at the beasts of the field and wild. Does the wolf show generosity to the lamb, or modestly defer to the bull? Never! He eats the one, and stalks the children of the other. We are creatures of this world. The strong will prey upon the weak, and only the strong deserve to rule and survive. The teachings of the Triad fail because their ideals are impossible to achieve in a world of men. The generosity and mercy of Ilmater are a mistake and a luxury no true ruler can afford. The servants of Tyr seek some ethereal, transcendent ideal of fairness and call it justice. It will never exist. The strong rule the weak and the weak must serve in return for protection. Only the strongest man will win in battle. This is Justice, the justice that is woven into every stone and beast in this world. Why should we not live by the same standard? Fairness is the stuff of sentiment, and will get you killed on the battlefield. Mercy is for poets not warriors. We stand at the beginning of a New Age. We realize that only through serving the Dark Trinity can a man achieve true power. As the Spellplague ravaged our world we embraced the Dark Trinity and the Zhentalar Empire remained strong. This was not an accident. War and Death is the great equalizer among men. War empowers Lord Bane, for in conflict the strength of his servants is tested, where a man must survive with not only his brawn but his brains as well. Death will come to all eventually, when it does it empowers Lord Bhaal, and as you pass from this world you enter the domain of Lord Myrkul. The body you leave behind is nothing but an empty husk, which rises again to serve the Empire. You then stand before Lord Jergal to be judged, and should your loyalty to the Dark Trinity be found lacking, you will be cast down and into the realm of Loviatar to endure an eternity of torment. Those who served well and were loyal, those who sacrificed all for the Empire and the Dark Three, will someday rise again to rule the world at the feet of our patrons. There will come a day when every god and every man bends knee to them, but only the strongest and most worthy will receive the greatest rewards. Bane The Tyrant, the Warlord, the Black Hand Portfolio: Ambition, fear, hatred, strength, tyranny, war Myrkul The Lord of the Dead, the Corruptor of Life, the Lord of Bones Portfolio: Corruption of life, the dead, necromancy, undeath Bhaal The Lord of Murder, the Black Reaper, the Ravager Portfolio: Death, genocide, murder, plunder, slaughter ----- Divine entities who serve the Dark Trinity: Gargauth The Dark General Portfolio: Brutality, cruelty, planning, strategy, tactics History: Gargauth was once a former arch-devil whose foul nature was too much even for others of his ilk. Exiled from the Hells, Gargauth took to wandering the planes, returning repeatedly to Toril. Gargauth eventually found himself aligned with Bane, the Lord of Tyranny, aiding him greatly in planning the resurrection of his allies Myrkul and Bhaal. He believed that he could manipulate Bane and ultimately slay him to take his place, but he was outwitted at his own game, and was betrayed at the moment he sought to carry out his plan. Lord Bane, knowing his True Name, along with his ally Myrkul used it to force Gargauth to accept the essence of Red Knight while stripping him of the things they felt made him a liability to their cause. Gargauth now serves the Dark Trinity loyally as its general, and has brought many devils into their service. He is a cruel and brutal general with a cold and calculating mind. He has taken great pleasure in the systematic slaughter and enslavement of thousands, and is constantly plotting the next move toward conquering all of Faerun for the Dark Three. Assuran The Lord of Vengeance Portfolio: Corruption, vengeance History: Assuran was once the deity named Hoar, but the Dark Trinity managed to capture him, and force within him part of the stolen essence of Gargauth. The essence twisted Hoar into a cruel and vengeful deity known as Assuran. He no longer seeks any semblance of justice, but instead seeks to bring vengeance to any who seek it. He corrupts the hearts of all who cry out for him, turning them toward hatred and toward the Dark Trinity. Talona The Mistress of Poison, the Lady of Rot, Mother of all Plagues Portfolio: Decay, disease, evil reptiles, parasites, poison, rot History: Talona served Bhaal before his death during the Time of Troubles. Although she found herself slowly falling under the sway of Shar, after the return of Bane she quickly found herself in his service. She continues to serve the Dark Trinity loyally, both out of fear and respect, even as she envies many of the others who serve them. She has taken on many of Myrkul's disregarded duties in addition to her own, and with the help of the Dark Trinity she managed to slay the Mulhorandi Deity Set. As a result of this there are many Yuan-ti and other evil reptilian creatures who venerate her name even as they praise the Dark Trinity that she serves. Loviatar The Mistress of Agony, the Tormentor, the Willing Whip Portfolio: Agony, suffering, torture History: Like Talona, Loviatar served Bhaal until the time of Troubles, and afterward found herself being lured into the service of Shar. However, with the return of Bane she quickly found herself in his service. She continues to serve the Dark Trinity loyally, and like Talona both fears and respects them, even though she does occasionally enjoy tormenting those who serve them. She enjoys bringing both physical and emotional pain, and any who earn the wrath of the Dark Trinity will quickly find out why Loviatar is known as the Tormentor. Even those who are loyal live in constant fear that their loyalty may be questioned, and find themselves brought before one who venerates Loviatar. Jergal Lord of the End of Everything, Scribe of the Doomed, the Pitiless One Portfolio: Fatalism, judge of the dead History: Jergal is an ancient and alien being that predates most of the other divine powers on Toril. It was Jergal who bestowed the gift of divinity upon Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal, but at the time none of them knew the true intention behind the actions of Jergal. Since the beginning of time and the first death Jergal has existed to keep a record of the dead. He keeps with him a single tome which details every creature that will ever live and how that creature will ultimately die. Though few things are fixed in stone, the tome constantly rewrites itself to fit each new outcome. Jergal read his own name within the Tome, and in order to elude death himself, he passed on much of his divine power onto the Dark Trinity. He then used them to instigate the Time of Troubles, in a secret plan with Shar, which would eventually bring about the end of the world. Through his actions he ensured that the Dark Three were slain, but he did not anticipate them being resurrected. When Bane returned he gained vengeance upon Jergal by learning his True Name and using that to bind him into his service. Jergal now functions as the judge of the dead. Those who are considered faithless or are unwanted by their patron deities are given to Myrkul to do with as he wishes. Otherwise, Jergal records their name and ensures that the souls of those who are wanted by their patrons arrive to them without incident. After the Time of Troubles it seemed that the world had finally seen the end of the Dark Three. Yet, those who let their guard down did so far too soon. On Midwinter night of 1372 DR, the half-demonic son of Bane burst in a conflagration of diabolical green light. From the smoking husk of his remains emerged a newly reinvigorated Bane with his right hand ablaze with green fire. Immediately after Bane's return he realized how the Dark Three had been manipulated since their ascension to divinity. The alien mind of Jergal was difficult to understand, but the hand he played in their ascension and ultimate destruction was clear for all to see. Bane vowed vengeance, but for the time being, he turned his attentions toward reconsolidating his lost power. Near the end of 1375 DR, Bane turned to his Chosen Fzoul and delivered to him an important mission. He was charged with locating and recovering the missing Crown of Horns, which held the remaining divine essence of Myrkul. As his Chosen searched for the Crown Lord Bane turned his attention to a potential ally. He sought out the banished devil Gargauth and proposed a deal that was too good for the devil to turn down. Bane knew the treacherous nature of Gargauth but he also knew that the devil would not act until it was certain he would achieve a major victory. Fzoul was ultimately successful in 1376 DR in locating the Crown of Horns and delivered it to his Dark Patron. With the assistance of Gargauth the Crown's true nature was masked. The duo then approached the fledgling deity Velsharoon. Velsharoon was in a difficult situation, as Talos the god of destruction wished to destroy him and absorb his divine essence. At the same time he chaffed under the benevolent rule of Mystra. It seemed that only Shar offered comfort to Velsharoon, but he was intelligent and wise enough to see that serving Shar would pose a completely new set of problems. Bane knew all of this and offered Velsharoon a way out in exchange for his service. Velsharoon was skeptical of Bane but then was presented with the Crown of Horns as a bribe. The Crown's true nature, which was masked by Gargauth, went undetected by Velsharoon who took it as a gift. As the Crown was placed upon his head, he immediately realized his folly but it was too late. On the last day of Uktar, the night before the Feast of the Moon, on 1376 DR Myrkul won the struggle against the essence of Velsharoon completely taking over the fledgling deity and his power. Two of the Dark Three now once again knew life. These events went largely undetected by most of the other deities, and Myrkul, for the time being, pretended to be Velsharoon. It was then that vengeance for the manipulations of Jergal was nearly at hand. With the aid of Gargauth, Jergal was lured from his duties into a meeting where Bane and Myrkul laid in wait. As Jergal appeared Bane called him by his True Name, which had been obtained at a high price with the assistance of Gargauth. Jergal was then bound to the service of Bane and ordered to allow the three other deities to enter the Realm of Kelemvor undetected. Forced to comply with the demand, Jergal did as he was told, and before Kelemvor could muster a reaction Myrkul, Bane and Gargauth had slain him. Myrkul once again Ascended to the God of the Dead and revealed his presence once again to Faerun. All of the living trembled and wept at his rebirth, but the Dark Trio was not yet complete. Tyr assembled the Triad in an attempt to counter Myrkul and Bane. He reached out to Tempus, the Lord of Battle, and urged him to move against both Bane and Myrkul by assisting him. Tempus, not wishing to see his fallen warriors rise as undead by evil Myrkul, agreed to the alliance with Tyr. The forces of Tempus waged unyielding war against the forces of Bane, and by 1379 DR Zhentil Keep was surrounded and under siege. It seemed that the allied forces of Tempus, Red Knight, and the Triad were about to crush Zhentil Keep itself when Lord Bane appeared on the battlefield flanked by Gargauth and Jergal. Myrkul was notably absent; for the plan was simply to delay the attack on Zhentil Keep, not to prevent it. Through the use of Jergal and his own powers Myrkul was capable of determining the best approach that would lead to the most desired outcome of the war. Six months before Zhentil Keep was surrounded key individuals and the strongest men were placed on ships and sailed south to Cimbar in Chessenta. What on the surface had seemed a near endless series of crushing defeats of the forces of Bane was in fact a number of risky and strategic moves toward an even larger victory. As Lord Bane, Jergal and Gargauth knew would happen their presence caused Tempus, Red Knight, Tyr, Torm and Ilmater to appear on the battlefield. It seemed that the defeat of Bane and Gargauth was at hand, and that Myrkul had abandoned them in their hour of need. Little did the Triad and its allies know that he was with Fzoul standing in the shadow of Boareskyr Bridge, and little did Fzoul know the role he was about to play. Myrkul called forth the ancient enemy of Tempus, Garagos the Reaver. As Myrkul knew he would the insane Garagos immediately set upon a path of destruction. Within moments every living soul in Trollclaw Ford had been slain as Garagos made his way toward the bridge, toward Myrkul and Fzoul. It was then that Myrkul cast down into the black waters the essence of Kelemvor that represented death, and the water began to stir with a sense of life. It called out in hunger, and it was then that Myrkul crossed the bridge and hurled Fzoul into the water that seemed to have a life of its own. It reached out and grabbed Fzoul with tar like tentacles preventing his escape as he screamed and cursed the name of Myrkul who simply watched impassively from the shore. Finally, as Fzoul was being pulled into the inky depths to feed the water, Garagos appeared in the clearing. He saw Myrkul standing on the opposite shore and Fzoul struggling within the tar like water. Without a thought, the insane Reaver charged forward to kill Fzoul first before attempting to destroy Myrkul. Garagos charged into the black water, and with a single stroke he slew Fzoul. As his blood fed the water, it moved with renewed strength. It latched onto the deity known as Garagos as Myrkul watched from the opposite shore silently. Garagos struggled and slashed at the water, but his actions were in vain. As he howled and thrashed, the black water began to enter into his every pore, within moments Garagos the Reaver was no more, and the final member of the Dark Trinity, Bhaal had been reborn with renewed strength. Back at Zhentil Keep it became clear that Bane was losing and Tyr had the upper hand. Bane was badly wounded as Jergal and Gargauth attempted to hold the others at bay. Around their feet mortals died by the hundreds on both sides, but Tempus, seeing an opening charged toward Bane. It seemed to be the end of the Black Hand, but at that moment Myrkul and Bhaal appeared, distracting the Lord of Battle for only the briefest of moments, long enough for Lord Bane to land a killing blow and block another by Tyr. Bhaal, the Lord of Murder then suddenly appeared half way across the battlefield as Red Knight was engaged in battle with Gargauth. With the flick of his blade Red Knight was fatally wounded, falling to her knees. Standing within the ruins of Zhentil Keep Myrkul lifted his hand and blasted Torm, nearly incinerating him in black fire. Torm recoiled and was forced to flee and horribly scarred from the encounter. Tyr realized that the battle had suddenly shifted in the favor of Lord Bane. The dark deity simply glared at him with hateful eyes, but he could not contain a spiteful smirk. As Myrkul walked across the battlefield to engage Ilmater, the fallen around his feet began to rise as undead. Gargauth receiving a moment of respite noticed the badly wounded Bane continuing to battle Tyr. Believing that he had finally received the opportunity he wanted, he moved quickly toward Bane, but before he could reach him Jergal appeared and uttered the True Name of Gargauth. Unknown to Gargauth Lord Bane had anticipated his betrayal, and when he used Gargauth to learn the True Name of Jergal he also did the same for Gargauth. Bane then used Jergal to determine when Gargauth would attempt to strike, and once uncovered ordered Jergal to prevent it from happening by using the True Name of Gargauth against him. The Hidden Lord then found himself bound to the service of Bane, his once ally, now master. As Tyr and Ilmater fled with the scarred Torm the Dark Three loomed over the dying Red Knight, the slain Tempus and Gargauth the Betrayer. As a final act to ensure loyalty, the essence of Red Knight was ripped from her divine body and forced into Gargauth, merging them into a single deity. By the year 1382 DR the Zhentalar Empire stretched from the Vilhon Reach in Chondath to the River Alamber in Unther, and by 1384 DR Mulhorand itself had fallen to the ever growing army of the Zhentalar Empire. The method of approach I am taking is this: Shar and Jergal have conspired for a very long time to bring about the eventual end of the world. They have been secret allies since the beginning of time, and Jergal was the first incarnation of death spawned during the original conflict between Selune and Shar. He sided with Shar over Selune. Jergal foresaw a time when three mortals would eventually come before him and challenge him for power but he also foresaw the Dawn Cataclysm and his potential death during it. He passed his power over to the Dark Three, but maintained the ability to withdraw it at any time should it be required. He served them as an advisor over the centuries that they were in power as he plotted and schemed with Shar. When the Time of Troubles came it was in a large part due to Jergal. He is the deity who informed the Dark Three about the Tablets of Fate, knowing full well that they were useless. However, the Time of Troubles was the catalyst that Shar needed to bring about the events we are about to experience. (The Spellplague.) What they did not anticipate was the return of the Dark Three from the dead. It is actually the consequence of the return of Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal that saves the world from utter destruction even though it was completely by accident on their part. The world we are getting in 4E is the best possible scenario that could have been obtained. Deities such as Savras long foresaw what was coming, but were powerless to stop it. They realized that if they did anything to upset the delicate balance that was about to take place it would shift things into Shar's favor. Shar and Jergal knew this as well, which is why they did not fear Savras. He did not warn Mystra of what was coming because he foresaw her death no matter what he did, and the consequences were always worse. He allowed himself to die as Dweomerheart was torn apart, because it was part of the greater balancing act to prevent Shar and Jergal from being successful. It was actually Savras with the aid of Oghma, who ensured that Xvim was destroyed and Bane reborn at the appointed time. He knew that only through this action could it shift things enough against Shar and Jergal to give the world a fighting chance to survive. It was Oghma who granted Bane inspiring ideas on how to proceed. He ensured that Xvim was kept safe during the Time of Troubles (kept locked under Zhentil Keep) and he gave Bane the idea of seeking out Jergal's True Name. It was actually a powerful divine servant of Oghma who gave Bane the True Name's of Jergal and Gargauth. You can think of the situation similar to the belief that if a butterfly flaps its wings, causing a minor stir in the wind, it could eventually lead to a hurricane in the Atlantic. This is the type of balancing act that Savras had to perform, because if just one mistake was made it could have resulted in a victory for Shar. It is also important to keep the scope of things in mind. This isn't a recent development. This is something that was centuries in the making - in the making since the beginning of time itself. This is the climax of the events between Selune and Shar that began in the very beginning. This is the approach I might be using for my 4E Realm's. I am basically planning to drop the "Zhentalar Empire" down where Chessenta, Chondath, and Unther are right now. Mulhorand may be included as well but a lot depends on the map being used in 4E. What are your thoughts?
18DELTA 11-05-07, 12:49 AM	I like it.:)
Charles Phipps 11-05-07, 02:23 AM	Honestly, I think you should take note about some factors. 1. It's a filthy, filthy, filthy religion. What you've established is a religion that united all of Faerun's evil under one banner but it destroys any credibility the faith has. There's not a damn thing appealing in Bane's faith to anyone that isn't absolutely revoltingly evil. Tempus, Talos, and Cyric would probably join with Lathander and everyone else to oppose it. You've established an impressive and united evil force but when you have Bane allied with Gargauth, you pretty much remove any capacity for anyone whose LN to follow him. It's now less a religion like Hextor but a religion of Nerull or Tharizdun. 2. The True Name business is a bit deus es machine. What happens if the player characters or whoever learns the true name of Bane or others and sends them to a well deserved end? Also, all of the below deities are pretty much slaves to Bane, which works if you want to establish them as nothing more than his pawns but seems to grossly devalue individuals like Gargauth. 3. Myrkul as the Judge of the Dead is an abomination and you're honestly telling me they're letting him have Kelemvor's Job with this new work. I can't imagine Tyr not sacrificing his immortal existence, destroying himself if he has to, along with every other God of Good to see Myrkul prevented from being the ont to hold dominion over the afterlife's judgement. The Myrkul of Old was Evil but Greedy. This one is one that cannot be trucked with. It works in the Great Wheel where souls don't get judged by anyone but not in the Realms. Which is why Kelemvor was a much better god of the dead. 4. I can buy "Jergal was CE all along" fine. He was the God of Strife after all. Nevertheless, two deities working for the end of all things seems a bit of a stetch. 5. Oghma is acting pretty damn evil. 6. The Zhentalar Empire will pretty much be larger than Thay ever was and pretty much able to invade everything in the world at their leisure. I've used a lot of the stuff here but you're pretty much setting the game up for Armageddon as opposed to an evening of the Odds.
GreenKnight 11-05-07, 03:36 AM	I like the idea of bringing back Myrkul and Bhaal, but meh, I don't care for the rest. There's no need for Ragnarok type scenarios in the Realms, nor is there any need to kill off half the Faerunian Pantheon just to bring back two gods.
GothicDan 11-05-07, 08:59 AM	I absolutely love Myrkul, but I'm not sure I'd bring him back as a God, IF you used the ToT. An evil "Necromocracy," however, with a reborn Epic level Necromancer the likes of which Faerun has not seen before - Myrkul, reborn through the Crown of Horns - would be cool. I do agree that I find Bane to be bland, but I see no reason to personally change him because of this. I find ALL tyrants bland, but they're still tyrants, so he's good for his job. I see absolutely nothing in Bhaal, and would never resurrect him. It must be a sign of never having played out those video games, which seem to be his primary source of fan support.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-05-07, 11:23 AM	I see absolutely nothing in Bhaal, and would never resurrect him. It must be a sign of never having played out those video games, which seem to be his primary source of fan support. I played those games and I like Bhaal, but even I wouldn't want Bhaal to come back. Heck, part of the point of those games (especially if you played a heroic character) was that Bhaal was the bad guy and you didn't want to help bring him back! In short, I find his story, and that of the Bhaalspawn to be somewhat played out and dare I say it, passe.
MarkusTay63 11-05-07, 01:25 PM	My FR underwent a homemade RSE called the 'Great Conjunction', which effectively moved around a few countries, added in some new ones (and races), and un-did all of the divine cr@p from the ToT. So I've had the unholy trinity all along. ;) The three 'replacements' got de-moted to demi-powers Kelemvor is simply the Judge of the dead Midnight is the mistress of spells Cyric was the god of 'unconstrained ambition' (although he also went crazy IMG and sits in a straight Jacket locked away in his own demi-plane). Now he's just the god of madness, until his sanity is restored (probably never IMG). Also, I pretty much had all the lesser powers serving greater powers, so the new cosmological set-up sounds like something I'm going to like (since mine was already like that). The Dark Triad is just one of my 'mini-religions'. ;)
GothicDan 11-05-07, 01:44 PM	I love the mini-pantheons within the larger pantheon context. But I like it being unofficial and NOT having statistical backing - that is, I see no reason to demote or promote deities based on it, since it's all completely fluid anyway, and it has no daily impact in the lives of the people of Abeir-Toril.
Charles Phipps 11-05-07, 02:34 PM	I liked the idea that Bhaal HAD his chance to be ressurected and it FAILED. Actually, it sort of disappoints me those 5 or 6 attempts to ressurrect Bane were made unimportant.
Meldread 11-05-07, 02:59 PM	Charles, The over all goal for me is to try and envision what my Realm's might look like in 4E. I already know that large sections of the map will be left open for the DM's to throw in whatever they want. We already know that the Realm's is going for a Points of Light approach, and I want my Realm's to be Darker, but less chaotic. But to your points... 1. It depends on how you frame it. Bane isn't that appealing right now, but I think my approach gives him a much wider appeal. In my FR, he's more than just a pathetic wannabe Tyrant. He's the god of strength, and offers people the ability to achieve power if they have the ability to take it. He has taken on an almost Sith-like nature, which makes him a very nationalistic deity. Nationalism is a very key and core component to Fascism which leads to Tyranny, which ultimately is Bane's goal. I am debating on having things in my FR change after the Spellplague with Ao decreeing that the gods will have a less direct role in the world. What I want to do is shift the focus away from the gods themselves and toward their churches. It allows more morally ambiguous deities like in Eberron, but it won't be quite that free form. Basically, there will be no more avatars or gods appearing on Toril, and the only communication you'll have with a deity will be through a member of the clergy. The god will communicate vague messages through visions and dreams to his priests, but it would be things that are easy to misinterpret. If you no longer serve the interests of your deity (which may have a number of different dogmas that change with various churches) you lose your spells. This allows for a much more appealing religion. It's no longer, "I am Bane! Booga-booga! Fear me!" It's now more along the lines of a philosophy that somewhat resembles the following: The overall philosophy of the Dark Trinity will be one that emphasizes conflict. Their followers would believe that conflict empowers both individuals and civilizations by forcing them to change, grow and evolve. It ensures that only the strong survive, as a civilization is only as strong as the weakest link in its chain of command. Sentient beings deserve only what they are strong enough to take and hold for themselves and those too weak to protect themselves should turn to the strong leaders for protection. The views of the "lesser" deities, in particular the Triad, are to be viewed as obstructions standing in the way of social progress. The lack of conflict they promote leads only to stagnation and decline, and the morality that they espouse is an illusion that must be overcome. Nothing should get in the way of the Empire's ability to recognize and grasp opportunities for its advancement. Not it's people and not its enemies. These are views that many, many people hold in real life. In a wider social context, it is much like in our real world where at the moment everyone knows that the United States tortures people. It is just done behind closed doors and in countries that allow it. Yet, over all, because people do not see it happening they are not overly outraged. The greatest evils propagated by the Church are not put on display for the public to see. They make effective use of propaganda to explain why things happen the way that they do, and seek to shift public opinion in their favor. The people of the Empire also benefit greatly as a whole. Overall, their lives are much more secure and peaceful, and most of them are wealthier than their fathers were. Everything that happens is explained away, and the people as a whole have been desensitized to evils that would have made their forefathers outraged. This is the goal. To slowly desensitize the people to the vilest of evil deeds until they have become morally complacent. When that happens, they are much more willing to embrace the true evil that they serve. Additionally, you are looking at things through modern lenses. Take a look at individuals like Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar and Alexander the Great just to name some well known names. Their actions have been romanticized in history, but they were not "good" or "nice" people by any stretch of the imagination. They slaughtered and butchered innocent people, including women and children. Caesar once said that his men fought just as well smelling like perfume, meaning that he allowed his men to run rampant and rape "barbarian" women and children after they had won a battle. Khan was a master of fear and the military tactics that he employed will be similar to those employed by the Zhentalar Empire. If you want to see an even more modern look at things, take a look at the Nazi's in Germany and Fascism in Italy. This is the type of society that is being built, so you cannot say basing things off our modern world that it has no appeal. There is plenty of appeal, it just takes the right society. That is why I have moved them down into the region of Chessenta. They are a warlike people who overall long to be united in an Empire once again. It is very easy to dig down into their history to draw up a sense of national pride, and unite them under a single banner, provided you have the military power to back it up. Which they do and they use it to great effect. 2. That is true and I realize that. However, keep in mind that Cyric learned the True Name of Mystra. It was the easiest way to deal with these deities without having them killed outright. I like them overall, and wanted to keep them, but could not keep them as they currently were. 3. First, Myrkul is the previous judge of the dead and held the post before Cyric and after Jergal. Tyr is most familiar with Myrkul in that role. However, what I have presented Myrkul is simply the ruler of the dead, whereas Jergal is the judge, which I think is a fitting role for Jergal. I have changed Myrkul in personality. He is very similar to Velsharoon, a deity obsessed with necromancy. However, overall he is a very patient and quiet deity. He has no desire to be the leader, like Bane, who he serves as an equal, but would rather be the power behind the Throne. Which is exactly what he is… he is the power behind Bane. He is cold, indifferent and systematic in his dealings. 4. It is part of cannon that Jergal was once an ally of Shar. Netheril Empire of Magic states: "He admired the ineffable evil and seductive Power, grace of Shar and had formally courted her on several occasions, though he was well aware of the many attempts she made to manipulate him." I have taken that and built upon it. What is important to understand is that view of the world held by Jergal - the inevitability of the end of everything - hell that is one of his titles "The Lord of the End of Everything" works well with Shar and her ultimate goal. Which is to literally end everything, including herself and Jergal, which would make him one of the view, if not the only deity, agreeable toward that goal. I have taken that and tried to string together a series of events, reaching back to the Dawn Cataclysm, to the rise of the Dark Three, to the Time of Troubles and toward present events with the Spellplague. I have worked to put it all in a single context. Overall, I think with only a tiny bit of change it works out rather well and makes more sense than what we have currently. Also, it is important to note that Jergal was once a LE deity who has shifted to LN with Kelemvor. 5. Oghma and Savras are neutral deities, not evil, and they are not good aligned. They are acting in a way that they believe preserves the world as a whole. Yes, things ultimately end up being really dark and evil, but the alternative was the end of the world completely. Through their actions the world was saved from utter and complete annihilation. While their actions were ultimately to aid evil deities, in the end it was for the greater good. Additionally, I like the way I have set things up with Savras and Oghma and how the gods themselves have participated in events. The gods being immortal beings it makes sense for them to view things as centuries in the making. Also, I find it rather ironic Bhaalspawn just happened to end up in Candlekeep, of all places, which also just happened to be run by followers of Oghma and made famous by a servant of Savras. Of course, the Bhaalspawn gave up her essence in the end, which was what Savras and Oghma wanted to happen. Had Bhaal returned when he did or another deity had taken Bhaals place events would have taken a turn for the worse, throwing things in favor of Shar. The return of Bhaal had to happen at the right moment in time. 6. The Empire will be the equivalent of the Roman Empire in my 4E game. So yes, they will be the strongest super power in the world. However, I have events brewing over in Tethyr, which will eventually lead to the death of Helm and all that took place with Cyric and stuff. Tethyr will see the rise of a new and mysterious religion, which will ultimately find itself in direct opposition to the Empire of the Zhentalar and the second major, but weaker super power. As all this stuff with Bane happens the rest of the world is not stagnant.
Suin Bahhar 11-05-07, 03:52 PM	I like the way the gods interact in your setting, Meldread. But certain actions are far fetched, such as the relationship the gods of war have with Bane and Myrkul; or the way Oghma gives away true names. The Trinity vs Triad story is really good though. I like the nice little divine ecosystem they form, as they empower eachother with growth in their portfolios. It's really scary though to imagine the Trinity's Zhentilar actually holding your neighboring countries; seeing their efficient empire working by blackening the sky with soot from their empirial forges and hearing the chanting from armored undead and slave armies.
Charles Phipps 11-05-07, 03:53 PM	Weird, in my games, Bane would ally with Tyr to destroy your Bane. I guess I'm not seeing a move from Evil to Neutrality here but my take on Bane is more similiar to yours in canon while you seem to have made him an utter monster. I guess I missed what you wanted. Oh well, good luck with your game.
Meldread 11-05-07, 11:48 PM	Charles- Yes, Bane is supposed to be an evil deity. What I have done is exactly what I intended for him to be - an evil entity that is ambitious, cunning and tyrannical. Myrkul and Bhaal serve him, but they serve him under the guise of equals. Myrkul is somewhat the power behind the throne, while Bhaal is perhaps the most obviously evil out of the three. If you want to see an utter monster, you should look to Bhaal. What I have turned him into makes my stomach twist into knots. Have you ever seen the movie Hostel? Well, if you have Bhaal is the type of person who would endorse it and have is priests run a place like that. He feeds off death, literally, growing more powerful with each killing committed in his name. However, he takes a sick and twisted pleasure in interesting or creative deaths that twist the very soul of the killer. If Bhaal was a real god and existed in our world, he would have been the one whispering encouraging words into the ears of those who ran Nazi Concentration Camps. He would have enjoyed watching those locked within them slowly wasting away. He would have enjoyed the sick and twisted experiments performed on them that often led to their deaths. Bhaal sees himself as an artist and death as a particularly beautiful form of art. When killing you must perform the act slow enough to savor the moment, but not so slow that the victim thinks that there might be hope for survival. Death to Bhaal is more than simply the act, but everything leading up to and after it. The planning of the act, the preparation, the act itself, and the aftereffects such as the mourning of those left behind. These are the things that Bhaal enjoys and savors. He grows neither tired nor bored with his work. He does not seek power, like Bane, he has all that he wants in godhood. He is a simple deity, but can be cunning when he needs to be and he is not foolhardy in his actions. He serves and admires Bane for his strength and effectiveness. Bane empowers him through his conquest, but also through his governance over occupied lands. There are always those that must be disposed of and so long as these things hold true Bhaal will be there to assist Bane. Bhaal in turn empowers Myrkul through his actions and thus it makes him a useful ally. While you might think Bhaal may have few worshipers, you would be wrong. There are many who give praise to him. Many soldiers give praise to Bhaal along with Bane, because on the battlefield it is far more preferable to be the killer than the corpse. Various supernatural beings worship him as well, such as Vampires (who may also venerate Myrkul), Succubae, and many types of demons. Anyone who kills on a regular basis could find themselves giving praise to Bhaal even if they do not embrace his darker nature. To this end, it would not be uncommon for an adventurer to give at least passing praise to Bhaal, as they are in situations where they must kill or be killed on a regular basis. The danger that lays within killing is that with each death Bhaal is empowered, but you come to realize that you are also empowered. With each life you take you find that taking the next becomes that much easier. The first killing is always the hardest, but the dark whisperings of Bhaal always promise that it will be easier the next time. For a follower of Bhaal, there is always a next time, because killing can easily become an addiction that is hard to end. To have the power of life in your hands and know that you can take it away is to some even more seductive than the power promised by Bane or Myrkul.
Meldread 11-06-07, 12:45 AM	Suin Bahhar- But certain actions are far fetched, such as the relationship the gods of war have with Bane and Myrkul; or the way Oghma gives away true names. Well the gods of war (Tempus and Red Knight) opposed Bane due to the fact that he assisted in the resurrection of Myrkul. Tempus is at heart an honorable warrior and the reason he sided against them was that he did not want brave soldiers who died in war to be raised as undead. Keep in mind that he is also a god of war, and there is nothing that sparks a real war like religious strife and conflict. So to that end and aided along with persuasive arguments by the Triad, Tempus was brought into conflict with Bane and Myrkul, and because Red Knight serves Tempus she was brought along for the ride. Tempus was then slain by Bane, and Red Knight was slain by a recently resurrected Bhaal. As for the True Names, I realize that it is pretty much a deus ex machina, but there really was not a better way to ensure the loyalty of those deities outside of killing them. I killed enough deities to bring back the Dark Three and I like both Gargauth and Jergal. By having them technically slaves to the Dark Trinity it also opens up possible future stories where they might find a way to get free. The Trinity vs Triad story is really good though. I like the nice little divine ecosystem they form, as they empower eachother with growth in their portfolios. It's really scary though to imagine the Trinity's Zhentilar actually holding your neighboring countries; seeing their efficient empire working by blackening the sky with soot from their empirial forges and hearing the chanting from armored undead and slave armies. Thanks this is exactly what I am going for, and I am trying to tie everything into how I envision the 4E Realms will appear. Here is an example how the three work and compliment each other: To fuel the army of the Empire they have captured many Orc Tribes. The strongest of them remained alive, while the weakest were slaughtered. The females are kept alive in a concentration camp like setting, where their sole purpose is to breed. The Priests of the Dark Trinity observe the pregnancies of these women and assist them in giving birth. The strongest children are kept, while those who exhibit imperfections are taken aside and slaughtered while chanting the name of Lord Bhaal. The most viable children are taken aside and allowed to develop. As they mature the females are separated from the males, and the females that will serve as the best candidates for breeding are kept while the others are slaughtered. The males are divided between breeding males, males that are viable for war, and males destined to be slaughtered. The non-viable males are slaughtered and given to Lord Bhaal and Lord Myrkul. The males that are viable for breeding purposes are forced to breed with the females and the process repeats itself. In effect, the Orcs are being treated similar to how you would breed dogs, and are treated as little more than sentient animals that exist to live, to fight and to die at the whims of the Empire. The males that are suitable for war are then taken and infected with a very insidious and sentient parasite that is inserted through the nose. This parasite is undead, and it forces the males to undergo a similar process to ceremorphosis (the process used in creating new Illithid). It also shares a relationship to how Necrotic Cysts work (check out Libris Mortis). In effect the parasite latches onto the victims brain. The victim is aware of all that happens, but loses all control of his body. The parasite begins too slowly cause the death of the victim, which is extremely painful, lasting roughly a week. Once the victim is dead the corpse of the victim becomes a sentient form of undead that is under the complete control of the parasite, which is slightly more intelligent than a horse. This allows the undead orc to learn, to follow somewhat detailed instructions, and to operate with some degree of autonomy. The particular parasites used also hold a small degree of pre-programmed knowledge on effective ways to kill and do battle. All of this makes these Undead Orcs very effective creatures to form the backbone of the Zhentalar Army. They require no food, no rest, no pay and are completely loyal. The fast breeding nature of Orcs and their physical strength make them ideal candidates, combined with the general dislike of their race made it an easy sell to the public. It makes them expendable. It also contrasts very well what is happening in 4E up in the Silver Marches region according to the Drizzt book the Orc King. Are Orcs monsters to be exploited by the Zhentalar as they see fit, or are they sentient creatures deserving of mercy, compassion and understanding?
GreenKnight 11-06-07, 02:32 AM	I killed enough deities to bring back the Dark Three You don't have to kill any deities to bring them back, though. As I mentioned in the other thread, most of Myrkul's old Portfolios are still left unclaimed. He could come back and reclaim them just like how Bane came back and reclaimed the Fear Portfolio, which nobody had at the time. The only problematic one is Bhaal, and that's easily solved by stealing the Portfolio of Murder from Cyric and giving it to Bhaal (It's not as if Cyric doesn't have plenty of Portfolios to spare). It wouldn't be the first time a deity lost Portfolios without having been killed, first, after all. Kelemvor being a prime example, as he took the Portfolios of Death and the Dead from Cyric, but Cyric is still out and about with half-a-dozen other Portfolios. Mask has also been plotting to take Intrigue from Cyric (Someone around here mentioned that he succeeded, but I haven't seen anything that says so. Although I might have missed something). End result? Myrkul and Bhaal are back, and it isn't required to demolish half the Faerunian Pantheon to get it done. Incidentally, I prefer Myrkul as a Greater God, Neutral Evil as he used to be, and sometimes ally of Bane. I don't like the idea of him being an Intermediate God in Bane's service. In addition, one can easily get the whole "Evil Triad" feel without having to bring them back (You don't need Myrkul for it, at least). Several gods already reside in the Barrens of Doom and Despair, all of whom Bane can bend to his will, if they don't serve him, already. You've got Beshaba (Intermediate God), Hoar (Demigod), Loviatar (Lesser God), and Talona (Lesser God). Loviatar's a pretty obvious choice, what with being opposed to Ilmater. The rest are CE or LN, so you'd probably still need Bhaal. Bring him back as an Intermediate God, or bring him back as a Lesser God while boosting Loviatar to Intermediate, and you've got your Dark Triad. Bane/Bhaal/Loviatar.
Charles Phipps 11-06-07, 02:36 AM	Yes, you've clearly thought this out quite well. One thing, you might be a bit TOO recognizably "Mordor-esque" here.
Darth-Incognito 11-06-07, 08:42 AM	I will say this. Very fantastic plot about the return of the Lords of the Darkness, but i dont need it. Kelemvor Lyonsbane is a good guy so he must be a Lord of the Deads. But I know that it must needs to be in balance. Good vs Evil. So i suppose its okay for the returning of Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal.
Red_Wizard 11-09-07, 09:52 AM	Meldread, I think you did an excellent job of summing up Bhaal and his views. Well done. One thing I'll point out in regards to the portfolio of Murder, is that originally Bhaal is only stated as acquiring Death. So while getting Murder from Cyric might be desired, it would seem more likely to kill Kelemvor first so as to get Death back from him. To the overlying argument of Bring Bhaal back of not, personally I'd not have done it normally -- Being the canon stickler that I am-- however currently I am playing a Warlock who is hoping to do just that. *Shrugs* I don't think it has anything to do with having played Baldurs Gate personally, as that didn't deal with bringing the God of Murder back, so much as Becoming the lord of Murder instead. -RW
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-09-07, 01:22 PM	*Shrugs* I don't think it has anything to do with having played Baldurs Gate personally, as that didn't deal with bringing the God of Murder back, so much as Becoming the lord of Murder instead. Well, both actually. Bhaal's plan regarding the Bhaalspawn was about bringing himself back, not nurturing a replacement. Of course, other NPCs (and possibly the PC) had their own designs of achieving godhood for themselves.
Red_Wizard 11-10-07, 09:09 AM	Well, both actually. Bhaal's plan regarding the Bhaalspawn was about bringing himself back, not nurturing a replacement. Of course, other NPCs (and possibly the PC) had their own designs of achieving godhood for themselves. I know :). I was just saying that sometimes it can be fun to play out the ending the game didn't offer the PC's ;) :) -RW
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-10-07, 05:56 PM	I know :). I was just saying that sometimes it can be fun to play out the ending the game didn't offer the PC's ;) :) -RW True, true.:)
Zireael 11-16-07, 02:49 AM	The Dark Trinity back?! I am all for it!
Kenzuki 12-09-07, 03:58 PM	Bhaal had the following portfolios Death (especially violent or ritualistic death), Murder, Assassination (or assassins?), and Violence. Kelemvor has Death and Cyric has Murder. No one has the other two currently. So Bhaal COULD come back and claim Assassination and Violence as a start and then get Murder from Cyric while he's in prison. I just like Bhaal because I think he had a good plan in the BG series, he seemed to be a cool villan to use.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-09-07, 06:39 PM	If I recall correctly Bhaal originally had only the Death portfolio, however this retconned in the 3E sources, which said he had the Murder porfolio.
Kenzuki 12-10-07, 03:39 PM	According to Lost Empires of Faerun, Bhaal had the following portfolios. Assassination, murder, violence. While death apparantly was retconned and given to Myrkul. Myrkul: Corruption, the dead, death, old age. Cyric has Murder but to my knowledge no one has claimed the Assassination or Violence portfolios. Edite: It also said that they were assassination, murder and all forms of death by violence. So basically it's the same just worded differently :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-10-07, 07:27 PM	While death apparantly was retconned and given to Myrkul. Yes, that was a retcon.
Red_Wizard 12-12-07, 01:02 PM	I still keep death on Bhaals list, as per Tom Costa's write-up in "Prestige of the Realms, and the Knucklebones story. A combination of the two makes the best IMO. -RW
GreenKnight 12-12-07, 01:05 PM	Can't more then one god share the same Portfolio in a pantheon so long as at least one is a Demigod? So if Bhaal were to come back as a Demigod, then he could have the Portfolio of Death, even if Kelemvor also has it. If he were ever to rise to Lesser God status, though, then he'd have a problem.
Kenzuki 12-12-07, 01:53 PM	I don't know as much about the realms as you guys but at least in theory it is possible. Case in point Tempus and Garagos BOTH have the War portfolio. I've heard that this is because Garagos represents all the crueler aspects of War while Tempus represents the more honorable aspects of it. He allows Garagos to keep it so that he doesn't have to represent those aspects. If we follow this example Bhaal as a Demigod COULD have the Death portfolio and just say he represents all forms of Death by violence as I doubt Kelemvor is that kind of guy. (Also who has the Strife portfolio, Bane or Cyric? I see conflicting reports on this....)
GreenKnight 12-12-07, 01:55 PM	Cyric has Strife. Bane just has Hatred, Tyranny, and Fear. It was a mistake in the FRCS which was repeated in Faiths & Pantheons. As for Demigods sharing like Portfolios, I could've sworn I've read that somewhere, but for the life of me I can't remember where I read it or even find it. Which is why I asked. Hopefully someone who has read it can point me to it... assuming I didn't just imagine it. :allalone:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-12-07, 02:00 PM	Can't more then one god share the same Portfolio in a pantheon so long as at least one is a Demigod? As per the current rules, yes. But that might change for 4E, especially if the designers find it "redundant".
Kenzuki 12-12-07, 02:02 PM	Personally I think limiting the number of gods period is stupid. Roleplaying is all about options.
Red_Wizard 12-13-07, 09:49 AM	Can't more then one god share the same Portfolio in a pantheon so long as at least one is a Demigod? So if Bhaal were to come back as a Demigod, then he could have the Portfolio of Death, even if Kelemvor also has it. If he were ever to rise to Lesser God status, though, then he'd have a problem. Gods of separate pantheons can, as can Demi-powers and those above them. The suggestion for 4ed has been however, that any overlapping portfolios will mean deific battles, or one power being demoted to the status of demigod. -RW
GreenKnight 12-13-07, 04:48 PM	Gods of separate pantheons can, as can Demi-powers and those above them. The suggestion for 4ed has been however, that any overlapping portfolios will mean deific battles, or one power being demoted to the status of demigod. -RW Well, even in 4E, then, it'd be possible for Bhaal to have the Portfolios of Death and Murder, even though Kelemvor and Cyric have them, so long as he remains a Demigod. So Bhaal can pretty much come back as he was, before. Make him a servitor deity to Bane and you'd be set.
Kenzuki 12-13-07, 08:23 PM	Well, even in 4E, then, it'd be possible for Bhaal to have the Portfolios of Death and Murder, even though Kelemvor and Cyric have them, so long as he remains a Demigod. So Bhaal can pretty much come back as he was, before. Make him a servitor deity to Bane and you'd be set. And give him Assassination and Violence too. Then we can have a REAL patron to Assassins again.
GreenKnight 12-13-07, 08:34 PM	Excellent... BHAAL (DEMIGOD) Lord of Murder Symbol: A circle of red blood-tears, falling counterclockwise, about a white skull. Alignment: Lawful Evil Portfolio: Death, Murder, Violence, Assassination, Assassins I like! :)
Kenzuki 12-13-07, 08:40 PM	Excellent... BHAAL (DEMIGOD) Lord of Murder Symbol: A circle of red blood-tears, falling counterclockwise, about a white skull. Alignment: Lawful Evil Portfolio: Death, Murder, Violence, Assassination, Assassins I like! :) Oh yeah.....daddy likes. I don't know why but I've always liked to imagine Bhaal as being either a monk and using his fists or claw-type weapons or a shadowy assassin using a dagger. Well until he goes into the whole Ravager beasty form.
Zireael 12-17-07, 09:04 AM	Bhaal a monk? An assasin, yes, but a monk? And Ravager rocks!
Kenzuki 12-17-07, 09:36 AM	Bhaal a monk? An assasin, yes, but a monk? And Ravager rocks! Well naturally he'd have levels in Monk and Assassin. I just think the idea of him running up to you and beating your brains in with his fists would be an enjoyable passtime for him. And didn't he do that in the Avatar series?
Mirtek 12-20-07, 06:03 PM	According to Lost Empires of Faerun, Bhaal had the following portfolios. I would ignore LEoF in this case, it's nothing but a bad retcon changing Bhaal's real portfolios