The Sleeping Deities [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Sleeping Deities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 01:33 PM -This is compiling ideas I've had, with help from others, into one thread. Basically, I think I've unraveled the "mystery" behind the 'Sleeping Deities', and what not.

-Long ago, apparently, Aberations and their deities either ruled Abeir-Toril, or attempted to rule Abeir-Toril. As we know from the events of Stardeep, their incursion was repelled at the hands of some ancient, "lost deities". Basically, this conforms with the idea of "Antediluvian Aberrations", from Lords of Madness. Now, this brings up the question, who were these deities who existed long ago, before the dawn of recorded history, and what happened to them?

-Linking a lot of little things together, I've come to the conclusion that these "lost deities" are the Five Unnamed Yuir deities. The first piece of evidence I have to back this up is the fact that Stardeep, is in the posession of the Star Elves, who inhabit the Sildeyuir, and whose ancient empire, Yuireshanyaar, existed within the Yuirwood. Connected to this is the fact that The Traitor is a Star Elf. Because the Star Elves are the keepers of such ancient secrets, it seems to me that they must somehow be related all everything that happened in the past, with the Aberations, and what not. They inhabit, in the present, to a degree, and in the past, the Yuir, an area with ancient, "lost" deities.

-Next, we have a little hint, in which the "Sleeping Deities" are mentioned in the novel The Simbul's Gift, and Demihuman Deities, which goes on to talk about the Ancient Yuir Deities. Some of the Yuir deities, such as Zandilar the Dancer, or Magnar the Bear survive today, in some fashion or another. However, there are the five Yuir deities whose names and identities have faded away from their stone menhirs, and the collective history of the world. These deities were primordial entities as well, whose names had already been lost and forgotten by the time the Wood and Star Elves settled down in the area thousands of years ago.

-Furthermore, having a deity called "XYZ of the Cerulean Sign" would keep in the naming rituals that have already been established with the Yuir deities- Zandilar the Dancer, Relkath of the Infinite Branches, and so on.

-Now, why would these five deities be "sleeping", having been forgotten. One plausible theory is that these deities, like the other deities of the Yuir, were extremely weakened. But, instead of sacrificing themselves to bond with other deities, as the other Yuir deities did, these deities simply went into a "comatose" state, much like Auppenser. Why did they choose not to bond with other deities? Perhaps because of the knowledge of the threat from the past. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. The Yuir deities lie in a comatose state, simply waiting in the wings, in case the Aberations and the "Elder Evil" powers who they worship make their way back to Abeir-Toril.

-Another thing to consider is Ghaunadaur. Traditionally, he was a much stronger power in the past, but sacrificed much of it in anger, as he was unable to absorb and subsume Lolth, who had only recently been cast into the Abyss from Arvandor. AGHotR states that Lolth attempts to absorb and subsume Ghaunadaur, but is unable to, as the Elder Eye is suddenly much more powerful than Lolth gave him credit for. So, Ghaundaur, who was bested by a powerful Tanar'ri at the time, is now strong enough to resist the advances of a Greater deity. Perhaps this ties into the fact that Aberrations are gaining strength and numbers across the Realms, for whatever reason, and the Elder Eye is an obvious source of power?

-Thoughts?
msatran
12-16-07, 01:38 PM It is the best idea I have seen in quite some time.
Khaelieth
12-16-07, 01:45 PM Very intriguing (sp?) indeed. Do we only know of Zandilar, Magnar and Relkath?
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 01:58 PM Do we only know of Zandilar, Magnar and Relkath?

-No, there are ten Yuir deities in total, five known and five unknown. I just used those specific ones because they are the easiest to spell, and the first ones that popped into my mind. The entire list contains:

Zandilar
Relkath
Magnar
The Simbul
Elikarashae
Five Unknowns
Suin Bahhar
12-16-07, 02:18 PM Ack. I feel for the Simbul now. I want her to survive! Even if she doesn't someone in the Yuirforrest should step up to represent the Simbul (the totem).
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 03:44 PM Ack. I feel for the Simbul now. I want her to survive! Even if she doesn't someone in the Yuirforrest should step up to represent the Simbul (the totem).

-Well, the Simbul (Queen of Alglarond) isn't in any way associated with the Simbul (Yuir Deity). They share the same name, yes, but the Simbul (QoA) isn't an avatar or anything to that effect of the Simbul (YD). The Simbul (QoA) chose the name because she believed that her demeanor matched that which the Simbul (YD) represented and espoused.
Stigger
12-16-07, 04:06 PM As much as I despise the idea of 'elder evils' as being far too Lovecraftian, it is an intriguing idea I have to admit.
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 04:11 PM As much as I despise the idea of 'elder evils' as being far too Lovecraftian, it is an intriguing idea I have to admit.

-Agreed. Just trying to tie everything together in a manner that makes sense, and works.
Suin Bahhar
12-16-07, 04:23 PM -Well, the Simbul (Queen of Alglarond) isn't in any way associated with the Simbul (Yuir Deity). They share the same name, yes, but the Simbul (QoA) isn't an avatar or anything to that effect of the Simbul (YD). The Simbul (QoA) chose the name because she believed that her demeanor matched that which the Simbul (YD) represented and espoused.So she knows what the Yuir Totem represented and chose its name fully aware what duties that entailed. She just does it with more style then the Yuir Totem ever could muster. :)
Khaelieth
12-16-07, 05:15 PM -No, there are ten Yuir deities in total, five known and five unknown. I just used those specific ones because they are the easiest to spell, and the first ones that popped into my mind. The entire list contains:

Zandilar
Relkath
Magnar
The Simbul
Elikarashae
Five Unknowns

What little do we know of them, then? I know Zandilar got absorbed or something by Eilistraae
Suin Bahhar
12-16-07, 05:27 PM Zandilar the dancer is the mother of Selvetarm. Vhearun captured her somewhewre before the crown wars. She was later freed and absorbed by Sharess/Bast.
Khaelieth
12-16-07, 05:38 PM Zandilar the dancer is the mother of Selvetarm. Vhearun captured her somewhewre before the crown wars. She was later freed and absorbed by Sharess/Bast.

that's how it was! Cheers!
msatran
12-16-07, 07:05 PM Well, maybe the Simbul will become the deity that we hope she can be, and that will assuage our ****** off natures.
Suin Bahhar
12-16-07, 07:31 PM Simbul as the new goddes of magic. I dig that.
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 09:25 PM What little do we know of them, then? I know Zandilar got absorbed or something by Eilistraae

-You can find all of the information we know of the Yuir Pantheon in the 'Yuir Deities' section of Elves of Faerūn.
18DELTA
12-16-07, 10:06 PM I like this. Where did the idea for "The Lost Gods" come from? What source, did Richard Baker mention it? IIRC.

Also I asked Bruce Cordell about the "Cerulean Sign" at www.candlekeep.com. He said that the "Cerulean Sign" had nothing to do about "Abeir". It could be a NDA talking I don't know? Remember my Aboleth trip awhile back, because of "Star Deep"

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676 This is what Bruce Cordell had to say.
MerrikCale
12-16-07, 10:24 PM -You can find all of the information we know of the Yuir Pantheon in the 'Yuir Deities' section of Elves of Faerūn.

the what?
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 10:58 PM I like this. Where did the idea for "The Lost Gods" come from? What source, did Richard Baker mention it? IIRC.

Also I asked Bruce Cordell about the "Cerulean Sign" at www.candlekeep.com. He said that the "Cerulean Sign" had nothing to do about "Abeir". It could be a NDA talking I don't know? Remember my Aboleth trip awhile back, because of "Star Deep"

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676 This is what Bruce Cordell had to say.

-I don't know from nothing of "Abeir". As far as I am concerned, and until I see it in print, there is no seperate entity known as 'Abeir', as the planet is, was, and continues to be 'Abeir-Toril'.

-Anyway, Stardeep makes mention of "Lost Deities" who fought off and defeated the Aboleth, who were in the process of attaining rulership of the planet. I tied that concept with a few others, including the idea that 4e will have awakened "sleeping deities", and increased aberation activities.

the what?

-I don't know, It was like an unknown entity possessed me, and I was talking nonsense.
Kenzuki
12-16-07, 11:15 PM I like it Karsus, it sounds very sound from what I know. This also reminds me of two other things in different settings.

1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus.

2. Eberron with the whole Daelkyr angle (whom I personally love.).
Lord Karsus
12-16-07, 11:37 PM 1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus.

-Don't know nothing about that. Never played Warcraft.

2. Eberron with the whole Daelkyr angle (whom I personally love.).

-Markus has also said in the past that the idea of Aboleth ruling in the past, and attempting to take over yet again, heralding in a "Far Realm" like realm is very much like like Eberron's Daelkyr. Of course, I don't play Eberron either, so I don't know nothing about that either. ;)
ElMorte
12-17-07, 08:26 AM The Simbul is/was one of Labelas Enoreth aliases (Demihuman Deities, p 117).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
12-17-07, 10:30 AM If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P
Khaelieth
12-17-07, 12:51 PM I like it Karsus, it sounds very sound from what I know. This also reminds me of two other things in different settings.

1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus.

Hehe... C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus. *Rearranges C'Thun* Genius, these names! Almost as good as the Syphillisian Empire!
Kenzuki
12-17-07, 01:25 PM If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P

If you can kill a god, is it really a god?
Lord Karsus
12-17-07, 03:54 PM The Simbul is/was one of Labelas Enoreth aliases (Demihuman Deities, p 117).

-All of the five known Yuir Deities merged their essences with other deities, to survive. The unnamed five in question, as far as we know, didn't, and thus, are in a state of suspended animation, of sorts.

If you can kill a god, is it really a god?

-Yes
18DELTA
12-17-07, 05:12 PM -Yes

He knows what he is talking about. The only "Archmage of Archmages" to Kill a God!;):bow: :rofl:

Here is an idea, maybe the current Gods are aspects of the "Sleeping Gods?":looloo: Watch WotC get Retcon happy!:eek: :hides:
Lord Karsus
12-17-07, 05:23 PM *NOTE*

-I added a new paragraph, concerning Ghaundaur, and how the Elder Eye and future events strengthen my hypothesis.
18DELTA
12-17-07, 05:24 PM -Shh. Stop that! The tongue is a powerful tool!
:P
MerrikCale
12-17-07, 09:04 PM If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P

shhhh....they'll hear you

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 01:33 PM	-This is compiling ideas I've had, with help from others, into one thread. Basically, I think I've unraveled the "mystery" behind the 'Sleeping Deities', and what not. -Long ago, apparently, Aberations and their deities either ruled Abeir-Toril, or attempted to rule Abeir-Toril. As we know from the events of Stardeep, their incursion was repelled at the hands of some ancient, "lost deities". Basically, this conforms with the idea of "Antediluvian Aberrations", from Lords of Madness. Now, this brings up the question, who were these deities who existed long ago, before the dawn of recorded history, and what happened to them? -Linking a lot of little things together, I've come to the conclusion that these "lost deities" are the Five Unnamed Yuir deities. The first piece of evidence I have to back this up is the fact that Stardeep, is in the posession of the Star Elves, who inhabit the Sildeyuir, and whose ancient empire, Yuireshanyaar, existed within the Yuirwood. Connected to this is the fact that The Traitor is a Star Elf. Because the Star Elves are the keepers of such ancient secrets, it seems to me that they must somehow be related all everything that happened in the past, with the Aberations, and what not. They inhabit, in the present, to a degree, and in the past, the Yuir, an area with ancient, "lost" deities. -Next, we have a little hint, in which the "Sleeping Deities" are mentioned in the novel The Simbul's Gift, and Demihuman Deities, which goes on to talk about the Ancient Yuir Deities. Some of the Yuir deities, such as Zandilar the Dancer, or Magnar the Bear survive today, in some fashion or another. However, there are the five Yuir deities whose names and identities have faded away from their stone menhirs, and the collective history of the world. These deities were primordial entities as well, whose names had already been lost and forgotten by the time the Wood and Star Elves settled down in the area thousands of years ago. -Furthermore, having a deity called "XYZ of the Cerulean Sign" would keep in the naming rituals that have already been established with the Yuir deities- Zandilar the Dancer, Relkath of the Infinite Branches, and so on. -Now, why would these five deities be "sleeping", having been forgotten. One plausible theory is that these deities, like the other deities of the Yuir, were extremely weakened. But, instead of sacrificing themselves to bond with other deities, as the other Yuir deities did, these deities simply went into a "comatose" state, much like Auppenser. Why did they choose not to bond with other deities? Perhaps because of the knowledge of the threat from the past. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. The Yuir deities lie in a comatose state, simply waiting in the wings, in case the Aberations and the "Elder Evil" powers who they worship make their way back to Abeir-Toril. -Another thing to consider is Ghaunadaur. Traditionally, he was a much stronger power in the past, but sacrificed much of it in anger, as he was unable to absorb and subsume Lolth, who had only recently been cast into the Abyss from Arvandor. AGHotR states that Lolth attempts to absorb and subsume Ghaunadaur, but is unable to, as the Elder Eye is suddenly much more powerful than Lolth gave him credit for. So, Ghaundaur, who was bested by a powerful Tanar'ri at the time, is now strong enough to resist the advances of a Greater deity. Perhaps this ties into the fact that Aberrations are gaining strength and numbers across the Realms, for whatever reason, and the Elder Eye is an obvious source of power? -Thoughts?
msatran 12-16-07, 01:38 PM	It is the best idea I have seen in quite some time.
Khaelieth 12-16-07, 01:45 PM	Very intriguing (sp?) indeed. Do we only know of Zandilar, Magnar and Relkath?
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 01:58 PM	Do we only know of Zandilar, Magnar and Relkath? -No, there are ten Yuir deities in total, five known and five unknown. I just used those specific ones because they are the easiest to spell, and the first ones that popped into my mind. The entire list contains: Zandilar Relkath Magnar The Simbul Elikarashae Five Unknowns
Suin Bahhar 12-16-07, 02:18 PM	Ack. I feel for the Simbul now. I want her to survive! Even if she doesn't someone in the Yuirforrest should step up to represent the Simbul (the totem).
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 03:44 PM	Ack. I feel for the Simbul now. I want her to survive! Even if she doesn't someone in the Yuirforrest should step up to represent the Simbul (the totem). -Well, the Simbul (Queen of Alglarond) isn't in any way associated with the Simbul (Yuir Deity). They share the same name, yes, but the Simbul (QoA) isn't an avatar or anything to that effect of the Simbul (YD). The Simbul (QoA) chose the name because she believed that her demeanor matched that which the Simbul (YD) represented and espoused.
Stigger 12-16-07, 04:06 PM	As much as I despise the idea of 'elder evils' as being far too Lovecraftian, it is an intriguing idea I have to admit.
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 04:11 PM	As much as I despise the idea of 'elder evils' as being far too Lovecraftian, it is an intriguing idea I have to admit. -Agreed. Just trying to tie everything together in a manner that makes sense, and works.
Suin Bahhar 12-16-07, 04:23 PM	-Well, the Simbul (Queen of Alglarond) isn't in any way associated with the Simbul (Yuir Deity). They share the same name, yes, but the Simbul (QoA) isn't an avatar or anything to that effect of the Simbul (YD). The Simbul (QoA) chose the name because she believed that her demeanor matched that which the Simbul (YD) represented and espoused.So she knows what the Yuir Totem represented and chose its name fully aware what duties that entailed. She just does it with more style then the Yuir Totem ever could muster. :)
Khaelieth 12-16-07, 05:15 PM	-No, there are ten Yuir deities in total, five known and five unknown. I just used those specific ones because they are the easiest to spell, and the first ones that popped into my mind. The entire list contains: Zandilar Relkath Magnar The Simbul Elikarashae Five Unknowns What little do we know of them, then? I know Zandilar got absorbed or something by Eilistraae
Suin Bahhar 12-16-07, 05:27 PM	Zandilar the dancer is the mother of Selvetarm. Vhearun captured her somewhewre before the crown wars. She was later freed and absorbed by Sharess/Bast.
Khaelieth 12-16-07, 05:38 PM	Zandilar the dancer is the mother of Selvetarm. Vhearun captured her somewhewre before the crown wars. She was later freed and absorbed by Sharess/Bast. that's how it was! Cheers!
msatran 12-16-07, 07:05 PM	Well, maybe the Simbul will become the deity that we hope she can be, and that will assuage our ****** off natures.
Suin Bahhar 12-16-07, 07:31 PM	Simbul as the new goddes of magic. I dig that.
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 09:25 PM	What little do we know of them, then? I know Zandilar got absorbed or something by Eilistraae -You can find all of the information we know of the Yuir Pantheon in the 'Yuir Deities' section of Elves of Faerūn.
18DELTA 12-16-07, 10:06 PM	I like this. Where did the idea for "The Lost Gods" come from? What source, did Richard Baker mention it? IIRC. Also I asked Bruce Cordell about the "Cerulean Sign" at www.candlekeep.com. He said that the "Cerulean Sign" had nothing to do about "Abeir". It could be a NDA talking I don't know? Remember my Aboleth trip awhile back, because of "Star Deep" http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676 This is what Bruce Cordell had to say.
MerrikCale 12-16-07, 10:24 PM	-You can find all of the information we know of the Yuir Pantheon in the 'Yuir Deities' section of Elves of Faerūn. the what?
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 10:58 PM	I like this. Where did the idea for "The Lost Gods" come from? What source, did Richard Baker mention it? IIRC. Also I asked Bruce Cordell about the "Cerulean Sign" at www.candlekeep.com. He said that the "Cerulean Sign" had nothing to do about "Abeir". It could be a NDA talking I don't know? Remember my Aboleth trip awhile back, because of "Star Deep" http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676 This is what Bruce Cordell had to say. -I don't know from nothing of "Abeir". As far as I am concerned, and until I see it in print, there is no seperate entity known as 'Abeir', as the planet is, was, and continues to be 'Abeir-Toril'. -Anyway, Stardeep makes mention of "Lost Deities" who fought off and defeated the Aboleth, who were in the process of attaining rulership of the planet. I tied that concept with a few others, including the idea that 4e will have awakened "sleeping deities", and increased aberation activities. the what? -I don't know, It was like an unknown entity possessed me, and I was talking nonsense.
Kenzuki 12-16-07, 11:15 PM	I like it Karsus, it sounds very sound from what I know. This also reminds me of two other things in different settings. 1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus. 2. Eberron with the whole Daelkyr angle (whom I personally love.).
Lord Karsus 12-16-07, 11:37 PM	1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus. -Don't know nothing about that. Never played Warcraft. 2. Eberron with the whole Daelkyr angle (whom I personally love.). -Markus has also said in the past that the idea of Aboleth ruling in the past, and attempting to take over yet again, heralding in a "Far Realm" like realm is very much like like Eberron's Daelkyr. Of course, I don't play Eberron either, so I don't know nothing about that either. ;)
ElMorte 12-17-07, 08:26 AM	The Simbul is/was one of Labelas Enoreth aliases (Demihuman Deities, p 117).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 10:30 AM	If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P
Khaelieth 12-17-07, 12:51 PM	I like it Karsus, it sounds very sound from what I know. This also reminds me of two other things in different settings. 1. The Old Gods of the Warcraft setting. There were Five of them as well and the Titans imprisoned them beneath the earth where they slumber until they can be freed from their prison. In the MMORPG, WoW, you can fight the Avatar of the Old God, C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus. Hehe... C'Thun in the desert of Sillithus. Rearranges C'Thun Genius, these names! Almost as good as the Syphillisian Empire!
Kenzuki 12-17-07, 01:25 PM	If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P If you can kill a god, is it really a god?
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 03:54 PM	The Simbul is/was one of Labelas Enoreth aliases (Demihuman Deities, p 117). -All of the five known Yuir Deities merged their essences with other deities, to survive. The unnamed five in question, as far as we know, didn't, and thus, are in a state of suspended animation, of sorts. If you can kill a god, is it really a god? -Yes
18DELTA 12-17-07, 05:12 PM	-Yes He knows what he is talking about. The only "Archmage of Archmages" to Kill a God!;):bow: :rofl: Here is an idea, maybe the current Gods are aspects of the "Sleeping Gods?":looloo: Watch WotC get Retcon happy!:eek: :hides:
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 05:23 PM	NOTE -I added a new paragraph, concerning Ghaundaur, and how the Elder Eye and future events strengthen my hypothesis.
18DELTA 12-17-07, 05:24 PM	-Shh. Stop that! The tongue is a powerful tool! :P
MerrikCale 12-17-07, 09:04 PM	If a god needs to sleep, they can't be that powerful.:P shhhh....they'll hear you