Three-Face Sun, Jergal and Myrkul [Archive] - Wizards Community

Three-Face Sun, Jergal and Myrkul [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
customdrapery
05-29-07, 05:14 PM I was reading in the archives recently and I got to thinking about the whole three-faced sun idea. That the sun is a tripartite overdeity who is split up into three aspects, dawn, highsun, and dusk and that only two of those aspects are visible at any one time and that there are occasionally times when only one is visible.

Just to give a little background, currently, the only visible aspect is Dawn (held by Lathander). During the age of Netheril, two aspects were visible (highsun by Amaunator and Dusk by Jergal). It was proposed by Gray Richardson that it was possible that one of the reasons that Jergal wanted to give up his power was that he held the portfolio of Dusk and knew that that meant that he would eventually fade, so he gave it to Myrkul, who was therefore destined to fade instead of him.

I got to thinking about this idea and I realized that any of these three portfolios is like a "hot potato" that they need to rid themselves of. Amaunator didn't fade into dusk, he instead faded away and died entirely. Then a new power arose (Lathander), who I believe is a new god (or from a different pantheon who assumed the role of Dawn) instead of being a re-born Amaunator (although you could argue that as an aspect of the same overdeity they are the same, but I doubt the consciousness travels through each of them because that would mean that Myrkul was in some way the same as Lathander). Myrkul eventually died as well as the three-faced sun rotated and his time was up. This leaves only Lathander, who is probably greatly disturbed by the idea that he will fade as well and a different deity will arise as highsun.

My guess is that Lathander is going to do anything in his power to either keep himself from fading (and dying) by assuming the role of highsun for himself. I'm not sure if that is possible, but it may be what he was trying to do during the Dawn Cataclysm and may be trying to do currently with the Deliverance.

I think this whole thing was a pretty good idea by Jergal who instead of giving up his own divine essence to the Dead Three, had them kill off Borem so he could retain his divinity and eventually take back his power after he rid himself of his unwanted Dusk portfolio.

Thanks for reading my wanderings...
Burningspear
05-29-07, 07:35 PM these "topics" have been touched often, and i really really dislike any notion of that crappy Lathander being a revamped Amaunator.
as i stated before, at least Amaunator had a stiff upperlip and a backbone to match when he knew he was to die because his followers fled him after he did not react to the mishaps of the fall of netheril, that shows Lawfullness to the bone..

No other god can do that good for me, compared to Amaunator handling his decline the way he did.
I am not usually inclined to LG but with Amaunator i would go for it, maybe LN or NG, not sure what concept character wise would fit to support this Stiff god... that gives me nice food for thought... :plotting:

my rantings :rant: :tie:
Lord Zeb
05-29-07, 10:03 PM Personally, I'd like the next Dawn Cataclysm to incorporate Lathander taking on the Highsun aspect, and perhaps going for Dusk as well. This would be like the anti-eclipse: all aspects of the Tri-Sun active under one deity, raising him up to achieve his goals of spreading NG across the land. He's making inroads to gain Highsun already, granting spells to the heretics in his own church.

I don't know if he should be successful, but it'd be a good story. :)
Burningspear
05-29-07, 10:11 PM Personally, I'd like the next Dawn Cataclysm to incorporate Lathander taking on the Highsun aspect, and perhaps going for Dusk as well. This would be like the anti-eclipse: all aspects of the Tri-Sun active under one deity, raising him up to achieve his goals of spreading NG across the land. He's making inroads to gain Highsun already, granting spells to the heretics in his own church.

I don't know if he should be successful, but it'd be a good story. :)

:yuck: :pbbbtt: :rant:I HOPE NOT :banghead: :hides: :gah:

but then again, to each his own preferences
customdrapery
05-30-07, 10:49 AM BurningSpear - I agree with you about the fact that Lathander is NOT Amaunator. That's my point really, Amaunator didn't become Lathander, he died, a slow and painful death it seems. Lathander can only hope for the same. He won't suddenly morph into the highsun aspect, he's going to die and a new deity will rise to take on the portfolio of highsun.

I think the "Deliverance" could be taken in many ways, it may be some war against the evil gods or it could be something a lot more subtle, like trying to obtain all three aspects of the sun. He has been some inroads into highsun, but I don't think that he's made a play for dusk yet. My guess is that he feels that the only way for him to avoid death is to gather all three aspects to himself. Either that, or he has to find some gullible god who would be willing to take on the portfolio of dawn, like Jergal did with Myrkul.

As it was discussed on an earlier thread, if Lathander does manage to obtain all three aspects, he may become some sort of overdeity. This could be manifest in a couple of ways. He may become the "head" of the Faerunian Pantheon and get a power boost that way. Or, he may simply increase his Divine Rank significantly(possibly above 20). Of course, both could happen and Ao might have to step in. Which might explain why the Sun is split into different aspects in the first place.
The Ubbergeek
05-30-07, 12:17 PM A theory that sprung to me one day, on a tengent;

Since we know there is quite a few 'interlopers' - gods from other worlds and pantheons - in the faerunian one...

Would Lathander be in reality.... Apollo, the greek go? Changed a bit, perhaps united with another one... But Apollo, interlopping?
customdrapery
05-30-07, 01:30 PM I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lathander was an interloper Apollo. My understanding is that he was part of the Talfiric Pantheon, but that still doesn't mean that he wasn't an interloper. He might also possibly be an ascended human.

He "feels" like Apollo and may have been the original seed for his development, but other than part of the sun portfolio they don't overlap very much. Deities and Demigods gives Apollo Light, Prophecy, Music and Healing, which Lathander has almost none of. Of course, that doesn't mean that Apollo didn't change his portfolio when coming to Faerun. Maybe that's how he got stuck with Dawn.
GothicDan
05-30-07, 05:18 PM Months (years?) back, I made a slightly in depth thread concerning the idea of more Greek interlopers coming into Realmspace, and the deific emergences thereof.

That's where I asserted that a fragment of Apollo interloped over, chasing Tyche, and he ended up melding with the dying Amaunator. Thus, Lathander was born - a more lawful, harsh Lathander than the one we know today, due to Amaunator's influence. This is the Lathander that I thought would go on to perform the Dawn Cataclysm.

I also considered Milil to be a fragment of this original Lathander. Perhaps Apollo's aspect of music and bards was 'forced out' by the more Lawful Amaunator influence, and became the burgeoning Milil.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
customdrapery 05-29-07, 05:14 PM	I was reading in the archives recently and I got to thinking about the whole three-faced sun idea. That the sun is a tripartite overdeity who is split up into three aspects, dawn, highsun, and dusk and that only two of those aspects are visible at any one time and that there are occasionally times when only one is visible. Just to give a little background, currently, the only visible aspect is Dawn (held by Lathander). During the age of Netheril, two aspects were visible (highsun by Amaunator and Dusk by Jergal). It was proposed by Gray Richardson that it was possible that one of the reasons that Jergal wanted to give up his power was that he held the portfolio of Dusk and knew that that meant that he would eventually fade, so he gave it to Myrkul, who was therefore destined to fade instead of him. I got to thinking about this idea and I realized that any of these three portfolios is like a "hot potato" that they need to rid themselves of. Amaunator didn't fade into dusk, he instead faded away and died entirely. Then a new power arose (Lathander), who I believe is a new god (or from a different pantheon who assumed the role of Dawn) instead of being a re-born Amaunator (although you could argue that as an aspect of the same overdeity they are the same, but I doubt the consciousness travels through each of them because that would mean that Myrkul was in some way the same as Lathander). Myrkul eventually died as well as the three-faced sun rotated and his time was up. This leaves only Lathander, who is probably greatly disturbed by the idea that he will fade as well and a different deity will arise as highsun. My guess is that Lathander is going to do anything in his power to either keep himself from fading (and dying) by assuming the role of highsun for himself. I'm not sure if that is possible, but it may be what he was trying to do during the Dawn Cataclysm and may be trying to do currently with the Deliverance. I think this whole thing was a pretty good idea by Jergal who instead of giving up his own divine essence to the Dead Three, had them kill off Borem so he could retain his divinity and eventually take back his power after he rid himself of his unwanted Dusk portfolio. Thanks for reading my wanderings...
Burningspear 05-29-07, 07:35 PM	these "topics" have been touched often, and i really really dislike any notion of that crappy Lathander being a revamped Amaunator. as i stated before, at least Amaunator had a stiff upperlip and a backbone to match when he knew he was to die because his followers fled him after he did not react to the mishaps of the fall of netheril, that shows Lawfullness to the bone.. No other god can do that good for me, compared to Amaunator handling his decline the way he did. I am not usually inclined to LG but with Amaunator i would go for it, maybe LN or NG, not sure what concept character wise would fit to support this Stiff god... that gives me nice food for thought... :plotting: my rantings :rant: :tie:
Lord Zeb 05-29-07, 10:03 PM	Personally, I'd like the next Dawn Cataclysm to incorporate Lathander taking on the Highsun aspect, and perhaps going for Dusk as well. This would be like the anti-eclipse: all aspects of the Tri-Sun active under one deity, raising him up to achieve his goals of spreading NG across the land. He's making inroads to gain Highsun already, granting spells to the heretics in his own church. I don't know if he should be successful, but it'd be a good story. :)
Burningspear 05-29-07, 10:11 PM	Personally, I'd like the next Dawn Cataclysm to incorporate Lathander taking on the Highsun aspect, and perhaps going for Dusk as well. This would be like the anti-eclipse: all aspects of the Tri-Sun active under one deity, raising him up to achieve his goals of spreading NG across the land. He's making inroads to gain Highsun already, granting spells to the heretics in his own church. I don't know if he should be successful, but it'd be a good story. :) :yuck: :pbbbtt: :rant:I HOPE NOT :banghead: :hides: :gah: but then again, to each his own preferences
customdrapery 05-30-07, 10:49 AM	BurningSpear - I agree with you about the fact that Lathander is NOT Amaunator. That's my point really, Amaunator didn't become Lathander, he died, a slow and painful death it seems. Lathander can only hope for the same. He won't suddenly morph into the highsun aspect, he's going to die and a new deity will rise to take on the portfolio of highsun. I think the "Deliverance" could be taken in many ways, it may be some war against the evil gods or it could be something a lot more subtle, like trying to obtain all three aspects of the sun. He has been some inroads into highsun, but I don't think that he's made a play for dusk yet. My guess is that he feels that the only way for him to avoid death is to gather all three aspects to himself. Either that, or he has to find some gullible god who would be willing to take on the portfolio of dawn, like Jergal did with Myrkul. As it was discussed on an earlier thread, if Lathander does manage to obtain all three aspects, he may become some sort of overdeity. This could be manifest in a couple of ways. He may become the "head" of the Faerunian Pantheon and get a power boost that way. Or, he may simply increase his Divine Rank significantly(possibly above 20). Of course, both could happen and Ao might have to step in. Which might explain why the Sun is split into different aspects in the first place.
The Ubbergeek 05-30-07, 12:17 PM	A theory that sprung to me one day, on a tengent; Since we know there is quite a few 'interlopers' - gods from other worlds and pantheons - in the faerunian one... Would Lathander be in reality.... Apollo, the greek go? Changed a bit, perhaps united with another one... But Apollo, interlopping?
customdrapery 05-30-07, 01:30 PM	I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lathander was an interloper Apollo. My understanding is that he was part of the Talfiric Pantheon, but that still doesn't mean that he wasn't an interloper. He might also possibly be an ascended human. He "feels" like Apollo and may have been the original seed for his development, but other than part of the sun portfolio they don't overlap very much. Deities and Demigods gives Apollo Light, Prophecy, Music and Healing, which Lathander has almost none of. Of course, that doesn't mean that Apollo didn't change his portfolio when coming to Faerun. Maybe that's how he got stuck with Dawn.
GothicDan 05-30-07, 05:18 PM	Months (years?) back, I made a slightly in depth thread concerning the idea of more Greek interlopers coming into Realmspace, and the deific emergences thereof. That's where I asserted that a fragment of Apollo interloped over, chasing Tyche, and he ended up melding with the dying Amaunator. Thus, Lathander was born - a more lawful, harsh Lathander than the one we know today, due to Amaunator's influence. This is the Lathander that I thought would go on to perform the Dawn Cataclysm. I also considered Milil to be a fragment of this original Lathander. Perhaps Apollo's aspect of music and bards was 'forced out' by the more Lawful Amaunator influence, and became the burgeoning Milil.