Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hot_Line_To_Hell 06-30-07, 12:42 PM	Has any one come up with artifacts powers for other vecna bodyparts ?
Dr_Tough 06-30-07, 01:17 PM	I once heard that a DM came up with a false artifact called the Head of Vecna and actually talked some PCs in killing their characters by decapitation.
Hot_Line_To_Hell 06-30-07, 01:22 PM	lm was think about the hart as a new artifact with the power to let you control unlimited undead is that to powerful ??
captaincarot 06-30-07, 01:26 PM	I once heard that a DM came up with a false artifact called the Head of Vecna and actually talked some PCs in killing their characters by decapitation. if this is true the man should be given a medal, that is some seriously good dming. lm was think about the hart as a new artifact with the power to let you control unlimited undead is that to powerful ?? unlimited numbers sounds a bit broken to me, doubling or quadrupling the number for an evil cleric then possibly.
Drew1369r 06-30-07, 04:06 PM	Yeah unlimited is way too much... Try this Since there are some items that can quad your amount of controled undead try it with also maxing the undeads HD as well of those you control!
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 04:27 PM	Thats good for a lesser artifact, but I think a greater artifact would quad AND give max HD, and would also stack with any other 'limit-breaking' magical device (but only one). Greater Artifacts should NOT be god-like, but they should be Uber-potent. I like the idea of 'The Heart of Vecna', but I would give it a different spin... more like the Davey Jones thing from PotC. Vecna probably tore out his own heart as part of the ritual that turned him into THE Archlich/demigod, and it could conceivably be used against him somehow. A villain's heart should be anethema to him. Use the brain for the 'control undead' thing, its more appropriate... and grosser. ;)
Lord Karsus 06-30-07, 10:50 PM	-I'm sure the people in the General D&D section have more ideas...
customdrapery 07-01-07, 01:33 AM	Enjoy! http://users.tkk.fi/%7Evesanto/link.fun/stupid.pcs.html
MarkusTay63 07-01-07, 03:35 AM	-I'm sure the people in the General D&D section have more ideas...But my good Archwizard, Vecna IS FR canon. :D Several prominent people went to Ravenloft at the time Vecna was trapped there and interacted with him. Not only was there some travel between the two worlds. in a novel (with a kender!), but FR and RL are the only settings AFAIK that had a two-part adventure crossover. If he was just GH, I'd have to agree with you, but since he went multi-spheric (and especially RL), he could very well be looking to kill a few FR undead gods and take their place. An he is SO much cooler then Velsharoon and Kiaransalee. :coolcthul
Aegis_Chiron 07-01-07, 04:55 PM	Several prominent people went to Ravenloft at the time Vecna was trapped there and interacted with him. Not only was there some travel between the two worlds. in a novel (with a kender!), but FR and RL are the only settings AFAIK that had a two-part adventure crossover. Hey Markus, what books/adventures are you talking about? Up until know, I thought I was familiar with the storylines of most FR novels, even if I haven't yet read them, but I have no idea which ones you are referring to. And I thought the only FR novel with a kender was Tymora's Luck, a DL crossover. If you can help me justify a god so awesome that people want to cutoff their own heads to acheive some of his power, and bringing him into the realms, than please help me out. BTW, when I quote, how do I have it state who originally posted it?? I'm a newb... forgive me
Eladrinstar 07-01-07, 06:57 PM	Vecna only lost an eye and an arm. Why would his other body parts be floating around, in the Realms of all places?
Dielzen 07-01-07, 09:22 PM	And I thought the only FR novel with a kender was Tymora's Luck, a DL crossover. Yes, Tymora's Luck is the third of the books in the crossover event. Book 1 - Finder's Bane (Harpers #15) Book 2 - Fistandantilus Reborn (Lost Legends Volume II) Book 3 - Tymora's Luck However, I don't recall any Ravenloft and/or Vecna in this series -- it mainly deals with the Hand of Bane, Moander, and Finder. I could be wrong tho, it's been a while. The only RL/FR connection I remember is Jander Sunstar getting taken by the mists in one of the Anthologies and then he got a whole novel in the RL line.
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 01:02 AM	The only RL/FR connection I remember is Jander Sunstar getting taken by the mists in one of the Anthologies and then he got a whole novel in the RL line. -Vampire of the Mists
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 04:52 AM	Okay, I'm getting my novels mixed up (I didn't read either of them). I thought the kender was in the one that went from FR to RL. There are a couple of domains that originated in FR that exist in RL, including (I think) one of a Red Wizard. I haven't read any of my RL stuff in awhile, but I remember that wizard had a very cool back-story. Anyhow, the two modules that crossover from FR to RL are Castle Spulzeer and The Forgotten Terror, and that was at the time that Vecna was one of the major powers of RL. He has since busted out and made it home, but he interacted with many people from FR while he was there. I can see him being intrigued by the world where such interesting heroes hailed from. ;) Also, there may be some connection through Mellifleur, from 2e Moster Mythology. That god is said to have been created on every world, but was sponsored by a different god each time, and they mention both Bane and Nerull (GH). It is assumed that he is also known by different names on each world, so Vecna and Velsharoon could very well be two aspects of this being, or more likey, they are both aspects of Vecna. :devil:
XHereticX 07-02-07, 11:36 AM	Hmm, I have always thought Velsharoon an aspect of Melifleur, consitering their similar histories. I would say that the three gods are probably three parts of a whole. Maybe fragments of a far more powerful lich deity...
PharaunMizzrym 07-02-07, 03:28 PM	We know that Velsharoon was recently human and ascended with Tempest's help. Vecna and Mallifluer have different portfolios. Though all three are liches, I believe that is where any connection between the three ends. In Ravenloft I believe I read that Vecna had several other body parts as artifacts.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 06:05 PM	But it specifically states in MM that Bane helped Mellifleur ascend in FR. Don't know if he lasted very long, though - I remember reading 'something' pertaining to his Realmsian demise. If he wasn't destroyed yet, then he could very well be FR's aspect of Vecna.
PharaunMizzrym 07-02-07, 07:35 PM	Since Velsharoon holds the same portfolio, it is likely that Mallifluer met his demise.
selunatic2397 07-02-07, 11:20 PM	I tend to ignore velsharoon and mellifleur in my campaign... Orcus has always been the demon prince of the undead in first edition and my group has never seen the need for anyone else...
Shemeska the Marauder 07-03-07, 10:52 AM	Melif and Velsharoon are the same individual, or at this point one has absorbed the other. The mythology regarding their origin is radically similar, and some sources have them as the same person. I assume that they began seperate, but that Melif absorbed Velsharoon at some point, and has adopted the name Velsharoon as an aspect of his larger multi-spheric identity (or viceversa). Regardless, in any event, Melf(fleur) still has a deific domain in Gehenna in 3e, though he might be living on borrowed time or might have struck a deal with his new jackal-headed overlords, so to speak. ;)
sleyvas 07-03-07, 02:45 PM	Melif and Velsharoon are the same individual, or at this point one has absorbed the other. The mythology regarding their origin is radically similar, and some sources have them as the same person. I assume that they began seperate, but that Melif absorbed Velsharoon at some point, and has adopted the name Velsharoon as an aspect of his larger multi-spheric identity (or viceversa). Regardless, in any event, Melf(fleur) still has a deific domain in Gehenna in 3e, though he might be living on borrowed time or might have struck a deal with his new jackal-headed overlords, so to speak. ;) No, Mellifleur existed before Velsharoon. Mellifleur absorbed the power of Bane. Bane was dead about 10 years when Velsharoon ascended (in fact, the first mention of Velsharoon as a mortal is in a module which revolves around Bane being dead). Velsharoon ascended with the aid of Talos during a ritual in which he became a lich (my take on this is something along these lines... Velsharoon acquired the phylactery of Mellifleur and reenacted the ritual which had created Mellifleur with Talos' guidance). Now, the question that comes down is whether both still exists or whether its just Velsharoon up there. Being that the entity didn't keep the name Mellifleur, I would assume only 1 still exists (but Mellifleur may have been kicked into the "outside" place where vestiges go).
sleyvas 07-03-07, 02:49 PM	>>Also, there may be some connection through Mellifleur, from 2e Moster >>Mythology. It is assumed that he is also known by different names on >>each world, so Vecna and Velsharoon could very well be two aspects of >>this being, or more likey, they are both aspects of Vecna. Vecna and Mellifleur would have nothing to do with one another. Mellifleur gained his divinity while becoming a lich. Vecna was a lich for a long damn time before he EVER became a god. I see no similarity between the two except that they're both undead beings that became gods.
PharaunMizzrym 07-03-07, 04:49 PM	Mallifluer was a lesser deity (at least thats what I've heard), and Velsharoon has always been a demigod. Had one absorbed the other that one would have become more powerful, not less. I believe that WotC removed Mallifluer out of game during the transition from v. 2 to v. 3 ad 3.5. just as htey removed Cthulhu (copyright purposes) without an ingame explanation.
MarkusTay63 07-03-07, 04:59 PM	Cthulhu is in FR canon?! :uh-huh: Also, where is the history of Velsharoon and what module does his ascension appear in? Can't they both exist, as long as one remains a demi-god? Also, Melifleur could just be active outside of the Faerūnian Pantheon's region of control, negating the whole 'there can be only one' rule. And BTW, gods carry different portfolios in different spheres, so the idea of Vecna being somehow related to the other two is still possible. Who knows? Maybe Vecna's Jergal! (though I doubt it). ;)
PharaunMizzrym 07-03-07, 05:04 PM	Cthulhu was only FR canon in second edition and TSR got sued for it. Guess even writers have to be careful when playing with Elder Gods. :coolcthul
Shemeska the Marauder 07-03-07, 06:05 PM	I believe that WotC removed Mallifluer out of game during the transition from v. 2 to v. 3 ad 3.5. No, Melif(fluer) is still around. In fact he and his deific domain are described in the 3e Manual of the Planes. And fwiw, Cthulhu et al were never actually a part of the D&D multiverse, though the Lovecraftian pantheon was included in the 1e D&DG.
PharaunMizzrym 07-04-07, 12:48 AM	Cthulhu was in second edition which technically makes him part of the D&D universe. Manual of the Planes is not FR.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-04-07, 02:18 AM	Cthulhu was in second edition which technically makes him part of the D&D universe. The printing of D&DG that had Cthulhu was for 1st edition. The copy on my shelf was published in 1980, solidly within 1e. Cthulhu et al didn't show up in the 2e version of that book, nor elsewhere during 2e. Manual of the Planes is not FR. Non sequitur. Regardless of that statement's fact or not, it has nothing to do with what I said. You claimed that Melif was removed from D&D entirely during the 2e to 3e transition, and I pointed out that he hadn't and gave a recent source that detailed him and his deific domain.
PharaunMizzrym 07-04-07, 06:26 AM	I meant to say FR. My bad.
Lord Mortanius 07-07-07, 07:21 AM	Melif has moved his realm from Death's Embrace on Mungoth to Hopelorn in Krangath, but Velsharoon still retains his realm (Death's Embrace). They're probably allies, but it's doubtful they're the same individual.
ripvanwormer 07-07-07, 01:16 PM	Vecna's the god of secrets, not the god of liches. He doesn't have anything to do with Mellifleur, much less with Velsharoon. Mellifleur and Velsharoon might be the same being. Bane was suggested as Mellifeur's FR patron in Monster Mythology, but this is only a suggestion, by an author (Carl Sargent) who was more of a Greyhawk expert than a Forgotten Realms expert. It'd be perfectly reasonable to assume that the background on Velsharoon trumps that, so it was Talos who was Mellifleur's patron, not Bane. Mellifleur might well have more than one realm in Gehenna. The Manual of the Planes gave new realms to a number of deities, but they retained their old realms in many cases. For example, Wee Jas still has her old realm (the Patterned Web) in Tintabulus even though the MotP gave her a new realm (the Cabal Macabre) in Ocanthus.
Aegis_Chiron 07-08-07, 12:46 AM	Just to confuse things a little bit more, has anyone looked at the old 2E manual Powers and Pantheons? That was where I first saw mention of Velsharoon. Look at his aliases. Mellifleur was the only alias listed. Now, I have no idea what F&P states about Velsharoon, but I tend to think of them as the same person. the MM entry about Bane raising Mellifeur was only a suggestion, and I have decided to not follow it.
MarkusTay63 07-08-07, 03:49 PM	I say they're all 'alive' in the realms, and once a year they throw 'sexy Lich parties'. :P
Aegis_Chiron 07-08-07, 04:11 PM	I say they're all 'alive' in the realms, and once a year they throw 'sexy Lich parties'. If that doesn'y send shudders up your spine, nothing will....
Kihon 07-09-07, 02:11 PM	For all of Vecna's body parts please see the module "Die Vecna Die" which lists out other parts of his body the survived and the powers associated with them. On a different note - the Elder Gods were stated out for 3.0 - a whole book was done on them (sorry can't remember the name, but I have it at home). It could be a whole game associated to them, but they are stated for the d20 game and could easily be used in a D&D game - we have.