Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drew1369r 05-25-07, 05:11 PM	I read it one day in F&P in the Tempus quote when the Mulhorandi and Faerunian pantheon clash and merge. I have started a campaign with that as a backdrop and the PC's decided to take an active roll in helping the faerunian side... now that being the case I'm having difficulty placing some gods on certain sides... like a put tiamat and shar on the Mulhorandi side do to being polar to say bahamut and Mystra. I've made certain adjustments to diety strengths. so I don't need that kinda help. The trickiest one I am having is Garagos. The main battle will be fought between Tempus and Anhur obviously being that both are war and well this is a war. Would Garagos side with Faerunian to keep Anhur from possibly succeding where he failed, side with Anhur just to have a bit of glee if he were to successfully help kill Tempus or sit in the shadows (which I think he personally wouldn't do because of his dogma) and hit the victor because he is now weaker? Different things will happen is alignment changes thruout like if Tempus succedes at defeating Anhur he would just subsume him because I very much doubtr Anhur would be a serviter so Tempus would more then likly have a shift towards good, and being Garagos who is already close to being evil would make the change to be the offset to Tempus. Gods will die on both sides and a very heavy burdon is on the PC's to see that the Faerunian pantheon succedes as that is the side they chose to fight on. I would like to either get some help or see how any of you would take this tasking on as a DM. Any help would be greatly appreciative. One thing is the battle between Horus-re and Lathander which I havn't even started to develope...
Duagloth 05-25-07, 08:32 PM	One thing is the battle between Horus-re and Lathander which I havn't even started to develope... Both die, and Amaunator retakes his place?
Drew1369r 05-25-07, 10:14 PM	Never like Amaunator... but I think that is what whats his face with the Heresy is getting his stuff from Horus-Re being with alignment... I was thinking of Horus-Re playing into the Amaunator reborn to get converts away from Lathander :duel:
GothWulf 05-26-07, 01:06 PM	Both die, and Amaunator retakes his place? Or maybe it isn't Lathander that battles Horus-Re at all...but a recently reborn/reawakend Amaunator? Wulfe
Lord Karsus 05-27-07, 12:09 AM	-Heh, GothWulf. Long time, no see.
dragonheart 05-27-07, 01:57 PM	or really go for some unusual play in your war and have your PCs ascending to replace both gods in some of the conflicts - or perhaps replacing some unusual mixes of gods form both. I havethat happening in my campaign where a NPC (EX PC of mine) is working to replace Shandukul and Geb (with both deity's consent). In this case it works as the PC is both a world traveling ranger and a mining geologist. Also with geb having been writen as more or less ready to return to his origins and his wife (who never came to Faerun) and shandukul being the wanderer he is potentially being ready to move on from Faerun after being here for several thousand years. this training of a new deity to replace them allows them to leave while still providing for their followers in Faerun. makes for an alternative solution to some of your conflicts.
GothWulf 05-27-07, 05:54 PM	-Heh, GothWulf. Long time, no see. Well, I heard rumors that you were speading your darkness all over again...so I had to come back to bring randomness and gaity back, Oh Crazy Mage...:) Though it seems that GD has usurped my profolio of gaiety while I was away..*snicker*..guess that leaves me with just Randomness....and Wild Theories <snags a new porfolio while no-one is looking> *laughs* Wulfe
Lord Karsus 05-27-07, 06:34 PM	-The rumors are true. I even have a cult following! :) -There's a couple of other portfolios laying around here, that no one is currently using. Let's see here... :: Opens up a an old trunk, and blows the dust off :: -Boogers -Constipation -Mauve -Parabolas -Toe Jam -Boils -Lettuce -Interested in any?
GothWulf 05-27-07, 09:16 PM	I'll take Lettuce....that gives me a nice start to begin slowly taking Chauntea's porfolios from Her...one tiny one at a time...*cackles maniacally* Wulfe
Drew1369r 05-27-07, 11:56 PM	I never actually thought about PC ascedence... I wonder how that can play out... hmmmm
GothWulf 05-28-07, 05:52 AM	Shoosh you....you will ruin my entire plot....;) Wulfe
Galad 05-28-07, 09:18 AM	I'll take Lettuce....that gives me a nice start to begin slowly taking Chauntea's porfolios from Her...one tiny one at a time...*cackles maniacally* Wulfe Damn I wanted lettuce! Guess I will have to take toe jam and boogers. Sigh!
Lord Karsus 05-28-07, 06:16 PM	I never actually thought about PC ascedence... I wonder how that can play out... hmmmm -I'm a case study.
Renvale999 05-30-07, 01:19 PM	-I'm a case study. :rofl: I laughed out loud at work when I read this, everyone thinks I'm nuts
Lord Karsus 05-30-07, 01:55 PM	:rofl: I laughed out loud at work when I read this, everyone thinks I'm nuts -Maybe you are. They might think you're nuts because they don't actually exists, and are merely figments of your imagination.
Renvale999 05-30-07, 03:02 PM	-Maybe you are. They might think you're nuts because they don't actually exists, and are merely figments of your imagination. Okay now you've went from funny to freaky...knock it off lol.
Stigger 05-30-07, 03:09 PM	Nah, that's just a little philosophical... freaky would be you may just be a figment of LK's imagination and all the oddity and strangeness that would imply...
Suncapcd 05-30-07, 05:21 PM	Way to go guys. I bet Drew really appreciated you hijacking his thread with your nonsense. But honestly Drew, Tempus is one of the most powerful deities in FR, having a DR of 17 I believe. The only thing stronger than DR 17 is Mystra I believe with an 18. Anhur wont even be a fight. Hes a lesser deity and a weak one at that. Hell, Anhur and Garagos working together wouldnt upseat Tempus. I can see Anhur going to Garagos and proposing a union against Tempus, promising equal "ownership" of the war domain once Garagos' main opponent, Tempus is eliminated. Garagos agrees, since he figures to easily destroy Anhur if they do defeat Tempus and if they dont, he figures worst case he is back where he is now. He knows that if Tempus wanted him dead, he would have slew him back when Tempus defeated him the last time. Fact is that Tempus would quickly dispatch Anhur and then take his sweet time on Garagos, whipping him again and enjoying every moment of it.
Drew1369r 05-30-07, 05:55 PM	I've made adjustments to the mulhorandi dieties... In my campaign I made Anhur an intermediate with one more DvR to reach Greater... Also yes some of the Faerunian pantheons have switched sides as well... alot of dieties will gang-up ON Tempus to weaken him especially with the mass deaths that are going to happen both sides are going to be hurting baddly. Now in the begining its the faithful doing the fighting not the actual gods themselves... I'm just trying to get the faiths sides hammered out... I still can't seem to place Garagos due to his mindset :p
Suncapcd 05-30-07, 06:05 PM	Its your game so you have the right to do what you want, however, making Anhur an Intermediate deity makes absolutely zero sense. Heres a deity that couldnt even take the war portfolio himself, waiting until one of Tempus' servants destroyed the old deity of war then stealing it as fast as he could. If he was strong enough to take it from the old deity of war, dont you think he would have? So basically, you have a new deity that is weaker than the old war deity who was slaughtered by a servant of Tempus. And somehow you came to the conclusion that this guy deserved Intermediate ranking and could give Tempus a run for his money???? You are either majorly partial against Tempus or have no idea how the system works. And the other deities wouldnt switch sides nor gang up on Tempus in any game other then yours. Tempus has no enemies except for Garagos who is but a gnat to him. Deities that are worshipped in mass by western civs wouldnt switch over to eastern civs that have no centers of worship for them. Either way, its your game. Just kindly leave the misguided results to yourself please.
Drew1369r 05-30-07, 07:00 PM	ouch... I ask for help and get insulted. Anhur is an interloper diety, he hasn't stolen any portfolio from anyone, he is a completly different pantheon then the faerunian dieties, other dieties in faerun are using this in an attepmt to strike at their enemies not just Tempus... wow, lets look at the intrigue factor of this set-up as well... Shar gets a chance to strike at selune, well lets help the mulhorandi out and use them to do it. This is a merging of the pantheons, not just an attempt to kill gods... Read FnP... there is more to a gods stength the DvR. Kill their worshippers, you kill the god... and its not just Anhur, but Horus-re, Set, Thoth, Geb, Isis, Osiris etc etc... not all of the Faerunian pantheon is going to get involved either... just those with the same portfolios. Open you eyes dude... lets leave the insults to children.
Stigger 05-30-07, 07:25 PM	Personally I don't see a problem with them co-existing really... they both approach their portfolios from a cultural perspective on warfare, the two don't need to be mutually exclusive. Honestly, I just don't see Tempus getting all that worked up about it... nor Anhur for that matter. Their worshippers might be a different story though, and that could draw the two of them into conflict if one side does something really atrocious to the other. Though just a matter of clarity, Tempus does indeed have enemies, though I doubt Sune or Eldath would really go out of their way to harm him much. Personally, from the descriptions, the major conflict would be between Red Knight and Anhur, more than with Tempus. Those two seem more alike in how they approach and view warfare, so the conflict between the two makes more sense to me. Though if Anhur gets into it with Red Knight, I don't see Tempus just sitting there and letting it happen... in all honesty, I don't see why the two wouldn't just continue on with the status quo, but its not my game, so have fun. :)
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 12:01 AM	Nah, that's just a little philosophical... -Descartes. Freaky would be you may just be a figment of LK's imagination and all the oddity and strangeness that would imply... -More Descartes. I know this isn't the case though, since G-d is benevolent, and is not a great deciever. That's what Descartes said, anyway. Personally, I don't like his answer. Though I agree with the idea behind it, I don't like his answer. He presumes too much about the nature of G-d. Way to go guys. I bet Drew really appreciated you hijacking his thread with your nonsense. -He should have. Anytime I associate with you plebians, it should be an honor. But honestly Drew, Tempus is one of the most powerful deities in FR, having a DR of 17 I believe. The only thing stronger than DR 17 is Mystra I believe with an 18. -There's plenty of deities who are "stronger"- Corellon Larethian, Moradin, Yondella, Garl Glittergold, possibly Gruumsh...
Renvale999 05-31-07, 01:19 PM	Way to go guys. I bet Drew really appreciated you hijacking his thread with your nonsense. Well, I've been his friend for over 3 years now and we served in Korea and went through h*ll together, so that basically means I can hijack his threads anytime I want....so sit down, be quiet and leave the intelligent conversation to the adults. Anyway drew, from what you've told me and what I've read you've got great ideas so just keep running with it. And to just to set the record straight, Drew is by the far the best dang Epic level DM I've ever seen and I've played with ALOT of people, so if anyone I know has chance of pulling this off, Drew does. As far as Garagos goes, I would have him just be a thorn in EVERYONE sides, picking at Tempus and Anhur at the same time, but also not getting involved too much, instead waiting to see who wins and possibly taking that one down while they are weak.
Burningspear 05-31-07, 03:55 PM	I really, Really dislike Tempus with his equal-chaos (read neutrality) crap :smirk: I much more prefer Garagos (even though i don't know if he would be a better war god with the way he portrays himself). Anhur is crap as well, and although he was not strong enough indeed to take a war portofolio from the Untherite war god by himself, it was basically given on a silver platter, by said god when said Untherite wargod got his ass wupped by Assuran. Go Assuran :clap: :bow: I dislike this "crap" about merging 2 pantheons, i don't think it s really needed, then if they merge these, they should merge the Zhakara'n and all other pantheons on Toril as well. IMNSHO....:tie: more to come..
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 04:52 PM	I dislike this "crap" about merging 2 pantheons, i don't think it s really needed, then if they merge these, they should merge the Zhakara'n and all other pantheons on Toril as well. IMNSHO....:tie: -Well, at various points, all of the deities in the "Greater Faerūnian Pantheon" belonged to different Human pantheons. Remember, there is no such thing as a "unified Human culture". Human culture is different in different places. The current incarnation of the Faerūnian pantheon consists of former members of the Netherese Panthon, the Coramshan Panthon, the Talfiric Pantheon, and a few others. It only makes sense that as cultures grow, shrink and move around that deities will be shifted from pantheon to pantheon as well. -The Zakharan Pantheon (in the present) would never merge with the Faerūnian pantheon because the people of Faerūn, for the most part, do not worship these deities. The people of Zakhara stay in Zakhara, for the most part. A large degree of cultural diffusion is needed for pantheons to start merging.
Burningspear 05-31-07, 05:01 PM	-Well, at various points, all of the deities in the "Greater Faerūnian Pantheon" belonged to different Human pantheons. Remember, there is no such thing as a "unified Human culture". Human culture is different in different places. The current incarnation of the Faerūnian pantheon consists of former members of the Netherese Panthon, the Coramshan Panthon, the Talfiric Pantheon, and a few others. It only makes sense that as cultures grow, shrink and move around that deities will be shifted from pantheon to pantheon as well. -The Zakharan Pantheon (in the present) would never merge with the Faerūnian pantheon because the people of Faerūn, for the most part, do not worship these deities. The people of Zakhara stay in Zakhara, for the most part. A large degree of cultural diffusion is needed for pantheons to start merging. Does not mean i have to actually like it, right? :ahem::bigeyes: :yuck:
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 05:07 PM	-No, but I'm just explaining why it happens.
Burningspear 05-31-07, 05:15 PM	-No, but I'm just explaining why it happens. I personally think its just another load of crap to write another book for more money
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 05:25 PM	I personally think its just another load of crap to write another book for more money -Well, like I said earlier, sometimes it's inevitable for two different pantheons to merge. When you've got two deities who have, more or less, the same job, and there's only one opening, what are you supposed to do? -The whole Tempus/Garagos/Anhur is only a plothook though, and I doubt that any future sourcebooks and/or novels will progress that "storyline".
Burningspear 05-31-07, 05:44 PM	-Well, like I said earlier, sometimes it's inevitable for two different pantheons to merge. When you've got two deities who have, more or less, the same job, and there's only one opening, what are you supposed to do? -The whole Tempus/Garagos/Anhur is only a plothook though, and I doubt that any future sourcebooks and/or novels will progress that "storyline". Unfortunately there are more of these plothooks going around witch i find very disturbing :smirk: like the Lathander wannabee Amaunator thing, :yuck:
Lord Karsus 05-31-07, 07:59 PM	Unfortunately there are more of these plothooks going around witch i find very disturbing :smirk: like the Lathander wannabee Amaunator thing, :yuck: -Well, which ones disturb you, and why do they disturn you so? Personally, I like the whole Dawn-Day-Dusk triangle going on, but that's just me.
Drew1369r 06-01-07, 12:51 AM	Well, I've been his friend for over 3 years now and we served in Korea and went through h*ll together, so that basically means I can hijack his threads anytime I want....so sit down, be quiet and leave the intelligent conversation to the adults. MOPP 4 ALARM BLUE MOPP 4... 16 hours later... HOLY CHRIST!!! And to just to set the record straight, Drew is by the far the best dang Epic level DM I've ever seen and I've played with ALOT of people, so if anyone I know has chance of pulling this off, Drew does. The words... too kind:blush: -The whole Tempus/Garagos/Anhur is only a plothook though, and I doubt that any future sourcebooks and/or novels will progress that "storyline". I know thats why it peaked my interest Personally, I like the whole Dawn-Day-Dusk triangle going on, but that's just me. I LOVE THIS!!!!! Sorry gonna steal it ;) I dislike this "crap" about merging 2 pantheons, i don't think it s really needed, then if they merge these, they should merge the Zhakara'n and all other pantheons on Toril as well. The only reason I'm doing these two pantheons is because of their relationship on the Faerun itself... I've never, as a player OR dm ventured into Kara-Tur or Maztic/whatever else is out there... Hell I don't think I've ever been to Chult... -He should have. Anytime I associate with you plebians, it should be an honor. :bow: As far as Garagos goes, I would have him just be a thorn in EVERYONE sides, picking at Tempus and Anhur at the same time, but also not getting involved too much, instead waiting to see who wins and possibly taking that one down while they are weak. I'm see that more and more each time I look at it... that might be how I play it... but his dogma Any who strike down a foe from ambush or from behind demonstrates cowardice. He has this same dagma when he was known as Targus in the Netheril era... But waiting for either one in its weakened state wouldn't be an ambush... marching his army against the victor would still be honorable... in his eyes I'm assuming.
Renvale999 06-01-07, 01:21 PM	MOPP 4 ALARM BLUE MOPP 4... 16 hours later... HOLY CHRIST!!!/ God that sucked, I hated every minute of that crap. Anyway as far as Garagos, he doesn't have to strike from the back, ambushing is completely legal(atleast in my book) as long as you fight straight up when it begins. I think he would be all about guerilla warefare. Picking at each army then bringing hell once one side loses.
Burningspear 06-01-07, 10:13 PM	I read it one day in F&P in the Tempus quote when the Mulhorandi and Faerunian pantheon clash and merge. Different things will happen is alignment changes thruout like if Tempus succedes at defeating Anhur he would just subsume him because I very much doubtr Anhur would be a serviter so Tempus would more then likly have a shift towards good, and being Garagos who is already close to being evil would make the change to be the offset to Tempus. The one thing i am afraid of is that this little bit of info is just a ruse to whittle down the number of gods in Faeruhn, and to write up another source book for the sole money making scheme... And Garagos does not need to change alignment just because you need a polar personality of a god for every other god, they do not need to be exact opposite copies of each other in order to exist. on another note: thruout = throughout, serviter = servitor, succedes = succeeds (not to be funny, but just to help you out with the spelling)
Drew1369r 06-02-07, 12:14 AM	Im lazy when I type thruout... tho the others are legitimate... Yes its a ruse... but I'm hopeing to have something before Canon comes out... Tempus is my all time favorite god... Tho he could very well lose this fight... as I stated before... The PC's are going to have a major outcome on who wins and whatnot
Lord Karsus 06-02-07, 07:18 PM	:bow: -That's the spirit! :)
Gears_of_Gond 06-03-07, 02:59 AM	there is more to a gods stength the DvR. Kill their worshippers, you kill the god... Indeed. Are you focusing on actual Deity-fights here? As in duking it out in the streets like the ToT? I started a pretty sweet Godswar with the first cleric i ever had. I was a Fire Genasi Cleric of Kossuth... Stole a Luskan volcano that was holy to Talos by erecting a shrine inside. Following that i started to convert all the shivering masses to the warmth of The Flame. I guess i always saw the real fights going down with the folks on the ground, but the big guys do have stats for a reason i guess. Sounds like a really good plot though. either way. Don't forget Set though, Set would just LOVE an all out war. He is one of the trickiest gods there are. He could enlist ANY (well, mostly evil) Faerunian deity to get on his side, if only to weaken them so he can stab them in the back and subsume them. Hmm... i might just look into using that. Oh, and now he sorta owns the Yuan-ti, thats a lotta fingers in a lotta cookie jars..
Drew1369r 06-03-07, 05:12 AM	No, not walking at the moment, they are using their strengths by having petitioners invade the gods realms so they are needed there atm... On faerun I have it focused on the faithful.