| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Charles Phipps01-31-08, 04:18 AM | Odd thought exercise. Wee Jas has come to the Realms after hearing of Mystra's departing from the Realms. She sets up shop. How would she fair amongst the Faerun pantheon? Who would be her allies and enemies? |
| Gray Richardson01-31-08, 09:24 AM | I don't know that she could enter the cosmos without permission from Ao. My impression is that this could only happen if she had a critical mass or worshipers migrate to the Realms, or perhaps by sponsorship of an existing deity. But assuming that the conditions were met, and she were able to enter, then I imagine she would be opposed strongly by Shar, and also Cyric. We are told that Shar jealously opposes any god who would try to establish dominion over any aspect of magic. Cyric is also a god of magic (illusion) and I am sure he would like to assert control of more portfolios. They would view Wee Jas as an usurper and would fight her bitterly, trying to kill or expunge her from the Realms by any means necessary. I wouldn't put it past Cyric, as god of murder, to spearhead a campaign of assassination, targeting her chief priests and as many worshipers as possible, on the theory that if Wee Jas loses her worshiper base she cannot maintain her ties to Toril. |
| Zanan01-31-08, 10:09 AM | Can I have Hecate instead? She dwells in one of the Nine Hells these days and thus has far easier access to the Realms :) (Well, at least her clerics might ...) In earnest ... I would assume that WotC would/will have included a deity of magic in the new Realms, given that 100 years will pass after old Mystra's demise. |
| Alediran01-31-08, 10:59 AM | They'll not Zanan, they already said that. Which I honestly think it's BS. |
| Charles Phipps01-31-08, 02:28 PM | Yes, well Cyric's not in the best of shape right now. But I'd be interested in how her relationships with goodly and neutral (or evil) gods might go too. |
| Lord Karsus01-31-08, 02:46 PM | -She'd probably be friendly with Kelemvor, if I am recalling her portfolios correctly: Magic and the Afterlife. |
| Storm_Silverhand01-31-08, 04:33 PM | Heya, -She'd probably be friendly with Kelemvor, if I am recalling her portfolios correctly: Magic and the Afterlife. Wee Jas: Magic, Death, Vanity, Law. Depending on who you ask, she's either LN or LN (E), or LE. Also, depending on who you ask, or what part of her history she's come over during, she's an Intermediate deity (which is fine) or a Greater deity (which is not fine, since she possesses Death in her portfolio, and she'd have to give it up since supposedly only one Greater deity can be in possession of part of a portfolio). There's a chance she could clash, since Kelemvor is the absolute authority over death in the Realms. However, they might get along like a house on fire - they might end up the super couple of the Realms. :P I think she'd probably be at odds with Sune. |
| Lord Karsus01-31-08, 04:53 PM | -Wee Jas could bridge the gap between living and the afterlife. She could become the proverbial 'Grim Reaper'. In Egyptian legends, Anubus wasn't the deity of death, he was the deity of the dead (or was it the other way around?). Point it, perhaps Wee Jas could take the mantle of the actual action of dying, and the transport of the soul, while Kelemvor has the mantle of being in charge of what to do with the dead once they die. |
| Zanan01-31-08, 06:39 PM | Please, stop making any more s*lly suggestions the designers may actually take up. It's going to be bad enough as it is right now. |
| GothicDan01-31-08, 07:20 PM | Anubis was the Opener of the Ways. He guided the dead, sort of like a ferryman, or like Hermes did in Greek mythology. Originally, he was partnered with the wolf-headed god of Wawewep, who opened other paths/doorways, and had a more war-like aspect, I beliieve. |
| Kenzuki01-31-08, 07:24 PM | If memory serves. Anubis was the God of Judgement and Death. His father Osiris was the God of The Dead and the Underworld. |
| Lord Karsus01-31-08, 08:00 PM | Please, stop making any more s*lly suggestions the designers may actually take up. It's going to be bad enough as it is right now. -Sure, let's stifle what little creative discussion that there is that isn't somehow related to 4e. Anubis was the Opener of the Ways. He guided the dead, sort of like a ferryman, or like Hermes did in Greek mythology. Originally, he was partnered with the wolf-headed god of Wawewep, who opened other paths/doorways, and had a more war-like aspect, I beliieve. -There you go. Kelemvor and Wee Jas could work in that fashion, with a little tinkering of Wee Jas. Wee Jas guides the dead, and protects them on their journey to the Fugue Plane, and then it's up to Kelemvor to judge them. Perhaps Wee Jas also escorts those dead who don't get picked up by another deity to the Crystal Spire, or the Wall of the False/Faithless. |
| Storm_Silverhand02-01-08, 07:47 AM | Heya, -There you go. Kelemvor and Wee Jas could work in that fashion, with a little tinkering of Wee Jas. Wee Jas guides the dead, and protects them on their journey to the Fugue Plane, and then it's up to Kelemvor to judge them. Perhaps Wee Jas also escorts those dead who don't get picked up by another deity to the Crystal Spire, or the Wall of the False/Faithless. That might work, but we'd have to cut her loose from her ties to the Suel (I think that's the name of her people)... There is a rather interesting series of articles on Wee Jas that can be found on the Canonfire! (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/index.php) website (just search on her name), which I believe is a fan based site for Greyhawk. (I'm not an expert by any means, I was just curious about Wee Jas and one day decided to go digging to see what I could find about her.) In any event, I don't think Wee Jas has the right feel for Faerun, it wouldn't sit right with me for her to be brought across. (I'm also going through a phase where I'm hoping they don't "replace" Mystra.) Besides, I thought they were cutting the deity list down, not adding more deities. |
| XHereticX02-01-08, 09:03 AM | Bah, I'd rather have them bring back Anubis than insert a random Greyhawk deity. But that's just me. If we have a guide of the dead's souls, I think we should also have a guardian of tombs and bodies. Anubis could serve as the tomb guardian (which was one of his functions in the Egyptia Pantheon) while Jergal could be brought out a little more to serve as essentially the "boatman" to death (like Charon). |
| Charles Phipps02-01-08, 09:11 AM | For me, I'm explicitly looking at Wee Jass as trying to seize Mystra's former role as goddess of magic and then going for Kelemvor's portfolio or perhaps seizing Velsharoons. She might even try to steal from Sune. If she can stand up to Shar, then she can probably win over most of Mystra's old faith as well. |
| XHereticX02-01-08, 09:13 AM | For me, I'm explicitly looking at Wee Jass as trying to seize Mystra's former role as goddess of magic and then going for Kelemvor's portfolio or perhaps seizing Velsharoons. She might even try to steal from Sune. If she can stand up to Shar, then she can probably win over most of Mystra's old faith as well. Hmm, that would be an interesting idea, giving magic a darker face without necessarily being nihilistic (like Shar). But I think a better one would be to have Vecna enter the Realms, kill Velsharoon and take his position, and try to take Mystra's place. It'll be Die, Vecna, Die all over again. |
| Zanan02-01-08, 09:19 AM | I read that Magic in the Realms article again and ... well. There is more Ragnageddon involved than I had feared and what remains looks - right now - not like the Realms to me. Hard as the old hands may try, this all sounds so wrong and not FRish any more. And I have serious doubts that they will reintroduce anything that holds as much power as either Mytsra or Shar held over the Weave. BTW, I see absolutely no sense in the chucking of Mystra. They painted here as some deus-ex-machina deity who could do as she pleased - which she couldn't. Or as a deity who held back the new developement. Yet, even that is not the case. Now they played the deus-ex-machina card themselves - because they could do something not even Mystra was able to - and for what sake? Has any spellcaster in the Realms, players I think of, felt the look of the Lady of Magic on their backs? Ever? |
| Charles Phipps02-01-08, 09:25 AM | Uhhhh, Mystra may or may not be back. Probably she will be in some Module or another when they have an idea for her. Frankly, I never used the Shining South so this really doesn't effect me that much but for the loss of Mulhorandi. But, really, Wee Jass is an interesting substitute for Mystra in my games since I want to chuck her because so much of the material will be about her disappearance in the future. |
| Connell02-01-08, 11:23 AM | Just to clarify, what is the 4E status of all the subordinate magic deities in the FRCS?? Specifically, Savras, Deneir, & Thoth. |
| Charles Phipps02-01-08, 11:28 AM | Just to clarify, what is the 4E status of all the subordinate magic deities in the FRCS?? Specifically, Savras, Deneir, & Thoth. 1. Confirmed Dead 2. Unknown but almost certainly demoted to Messanger Status. 3. Probably Dead |
| Lord Karsus02-01-08, 01:35 PM | Besides, I thought they were cutting the deity list down, not adding more deities. -This is us talking, not them. We have sense. :cool: 3. Probably Dead -I don't know if Thoth is going to be dead. Like Denier, I see him as being demoted. However, if they retroactivley label him as an aspect of Mystra, which is possible, then... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-01-08, 01:53 PM | That might work, but we'd have to cut her loose from her ties to the Suel (I think that's the name of her people)... Yes, Wee Jas is of the Suel pantheon in Greyhawk. Besides, I thought they were cutting the deity list down, not adding more deities. Rich said there will be a few new deities, although he didn't give any more details than that. |
| GothicDan02-01-08, 06:55 PM | If memory serves. Anubis was the God of Judgement and Death. His father Osiris was the God of The Dead and the Underworld. Anubis was neither the god of judgment or death. He was, as I said, more of an intermediary between the world of the dead and that of the living. Osiris primarily held control over the dead and the underworld, and if anyone, Maat would have been the deity of judgment. |
| XHereticX02-01-08, 07:28 PM | Anubis was neither the god of judgment or death. He was, as I said, more of an intermediary between the world of the dead and that of the living. Osiris primarily held control over the dead and the underworld, and if anyone, Maat would have been the deity of judgment. Hmm, as I recall. Osiris was the god of the dead and the underworld, while Anubis was the guardian of tombs and the god of death proper. Kind of like in FR where Bhaal was the god of death and Myrkul was the god of the dead. |
| Charles Phipps02-01-08, 07:57 PM | Yes, Wee Jas is of the Suel pantheon in Greyhawk. Why? Lolth is in Greyhawk and the Realms. Rich said there will be a few new deities, although he didn't give any more details than that. huh. |
| Wire02-01-08, 08:01 PM | Rich said there will be a few new deities, although he didn't give any more details than that.Interesting. New FRCS deities? Or new deities in the default D&D pantheon (like the way they borrowed Bane for their God of Tyranny in 4.0)? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-01-08, 08:36 PM | Why? Lolth is in Greyhawk and the Realms. Why what? I was just stating a fact.:) Wee Jas could be in the Realms if you wanted her to be. I've never thought about doing that myself, though. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-01-08, 08:37 PM | Interesting. New FRCS deities? Or new deities in the default D&D pantheon (like the way they borrowed Bane for their God of Tyranny in 4.0)? He didn't say, so we'll just have to wait and see.:) |
| Charles Phipps02-01-08, 08:56 PM | Why what? I was just stating a fact.:) Wee Jas could be in the Realms if you wanted her to be. I've never thought about doing that myself, though. Sorry was quoting what you were quoting and made a mistake. "Why would she have to leave the Suel pantheon?" |
| Storm_Silverhand02-01-08, 09:06 PM | Heya, Sorry was quoting what you were quoting and made a mistake. "Why would she have to leave the Suel pantheon?" Because in her development, she was the god of the dead for the Suel and for no other people. She wouldn't have to leave that pantheon, but in the Realms she'd have no people to be god of the dead for and would end up in the same position she'd have been in with Nerull if not for the fact that she was a Suel deity. Seriously, go read the articles, they make fascinating reading... Wee Jas Dissected part 1 (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=578) Wee Jas Dissected part 2 (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=579) Wee Jas Resurrected (http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=580) As for the rest, she had close ties to her people - otherwise she'd have been absorbed or overshadowed by Boccob and Nerull. (I just confused myself... oh well...) |
| Kenzuki02-01-08, 09:32 PM | I was going on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis |
| Storm_Silverhand02-02-08, 12:49 AM | Heya, I was going on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis Wikipedia was only ever meant to be a tertiary source, since the articles are written by amateurs and professionals alike, and the content is seriously questionable at times because not everyone writing for wikipedia is objective (and it usually takes a while for them to correct articles). You're better off hitting your library if you want to learn about Egyptian mythology... And even then it can be confusing. (Such as Sekhmet, Bast, and Hathor and how they're related (if at all)...) While I recommend Wikipedia over the Realms Wikia for all things Realms, even Wikipedia gets it wrong, sometimes shockingly so. (It has been a while since I delved into the Realms with any depth there, so things might have changed.) |
| Lord Karsus02-02-08, 01:13 AM | While I recommend Wikipedia over the Realms Wikia for all things Realms, even Wikipedia gets it wrong, sometimes shockingly so. -What!? Wikipedia get it wrong? Nah...I'd never happen. |
| GothicDan02-02-08, 02:12 AM | Never trust academic endeavors that haven't been put through the gauntlet of fire that is proper academia. ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-02-08, 02:21 AM | -There was a kid in one of my classes that was angered that the teacher took off a full letter grade on his paper because he actually cited Wikipedia as one of his sources in his bibliography. Classic. |
| Kenzuki02-02-08, 07:25 AM | Not only that but alot of the books about it that I've read over the years have always said that Anubis was God of Death in some way. He was also the embalmer and sometimes the Judge over the Dead. I mean even in Deities and Demigods he's the God of Death and Judgement while Osiris was only God of The Underworld and plants and stuff. I mean Gargoyles doesn't lie about these things!!!!:P |
| The_Shaman02-02-08, 08:54 AM | I think as a death deity, she'd have some problems with the locals, to be honest. Her attitude towards the undead is rather lax for someone who ought to be working with - probably under - Kelemvor. Sure, Jergal isn't exactly that different, but I think Kelemvor respects him a bit too much for his established function to look for the proverbial skeletons in his closet. Wee Jas doesn't have that. Besides, between Kelemvor, Jergal, and the racial pantheons I think the market is full. The one exception would be if she can somehow usurp Kiaransalee's job, but that could be somewhat challenging - iirc pretty much all of her worshippers were drow. As a deity of magic, she has promise. I prefer having a LN or N magic deity to go with magic being a neutral force that could empower both good and evil causes. Mystra, even in her NG aspect, was fairly tolerant to the point where even evil deities and outsiders could use the Weave. Wee Jas strikes me as a bit of a pain to deal with, but it makes sense that the goddess of magic is stuck up - mages aren't known for their humility either. In 3.5, perhaps she usurps Velsharoon's position, especially if he's caught red-handed plotting away with Shar. In 4E, she could take over the whole job anyway |
| Lord Karsus02-02-08, 10:19 AM | I mean Gargoyles doesn't lie about these things!!!!:P -I saw that episode, where Jackal becomes an avatar of Anubuis afew weeks ago, actually. |
| XHereticX02-03-08, 12:38 PM | Never trust academic endeavors that haven't been put through the gauntlet of fire that is proper academia. ;) That is when I hit the Encyclopedia Britannica:) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-03-08, 04:39 PM | Heya, As for the rest, she had close ties to her people - otherwise she'd have been absorbed or overshadowed by Boccob and Nerull. Well, Nerull was specific to another pantheon, the Flannae pantheon, so he had his own people. Boccob, on the other hand, is more of a generic deity of unknown origin, unlike most Greyhawk deities. |
| Storm_Silverhand02-04-08, 01:38 AM | Heya, Well, Nerull was specific to another pantheon, the Flannae pantheon, so he had his own people. Okay. *nods* Boccob, on the other hand, is more of a generic deity of unknown origin, unlike most Greyhawk deities. I thought he was an ascended mortal? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-04-08, 12:36 PM | I thought he was an ascended mortal? Maybe, although I haven't read anything to that effect. Boccob is, however, served by a demigod who was an ascended mortal--Zagyg (Gygax spelled backwords!). |
| Kenzuki02-04-08, 06:26 PM | Um...Zagyg isn't Gygax backwards....x instead of a z there. On a more serious note. Was Anubis ever in the Mulhorandi Pantheon? |
| GothicDan02-04-08, 06:40 PM | Nope. |
| Kenzuki02-04-08, 06:50 PM | I heard that like Ptah he didn't cross over with the rest of them or something like he sent Nephtys in his place or something. I heard this over at Candlekeep. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-04-08, 07:32 PM | Um...Zagyg isn't Gygax backwards....x instead of a z there. It is indeed supposed to be a play on the name "Gygax". As are several other references in the Greyhawk setting. |
| mustafathered02-04-08, 08:42 PM | If Wee Jas did try to fill Mystra's void... hmmm... Mystra's Paladins could multiclass freely with Wizard, so it'd make sense for the same to be true of Wee Jas' Paladins. Hmmm.... that would be interesting - a Paladin with command / rebuke undead... with Wizard levels... oh it makes one want to sharpie out the "non-good" requirement of True Necromancer.... |
| Lord Karsus02-04-08, 11:28 PM | It is indeed supposed to be a play on the name "Gygax". As are several other references in the Greyhawk setting. -The final issue of DRAGON includes: Gryaz Prison of Xagig Ring of Gaxx Talisman of Zagy Zagy Yagrax Yrag the Lord Zagig Yragerne Zagyg -By the way, was there something you wanted from that last issue, I remember reading? I can scan the pages, and send them to you... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-05-08, 10:42 AM | -The final issue of DRAGON includes: Gryaz Prison of Xagig Ring of Gaxx Talisman of Zagy Zagy Yagrax Yrag the Lord Zagig Yragerne Zagyg Thanks.:) -By the way, was there something you wanted from that last issue, I remember reading? I can scan the pages, and send them to you... Hmmm...well, I do have own that issue, actually. But if I think of something and can't find the issue (which is highly probable) I'll let you know.:) Thanks for the offer. |
| Lord Karsus02-05-08, 02:10 PM | Hmmm...well, I do have own that issue, actually. But if I think of something and can't find the issue (which is highly probable) I'll let you know.:) Thanks for the offer. -Okay. I thought I remembered reading that there was something from it that you didn't have. Guess I was wrong. No problem. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-05-08, 04:00 PM | -Okay. I thought I remembered reading that there was something from it that you didn't have. Guess I was wrong. No problem. Like I said though, magazines have the tendency to get lost, so I still appreciate the offer.:) |
| Dark Wizard02-06-08, 12:42 AM | I hear one of the new core gods is modeled after her. |
| Kenzuki02-06-08, 08:16 PM | The Raven Queen perhaps? |
| Dark Wizard02-06-08, 10:21 PM | The Raven Queen perhaps? Yes, that's the 4E core deity that I read some people believe will be little more than a renamed Wee Jas. |
| Lord Karsus02-07-08, 12:17 AM | Like I said though, magazines have the tendency to get lost, so I still appreciate the offer.:) -Well, if you ever need any, I have a whole bunch of the more 'modern' DRAGON issues, from 300 to about 330 or so. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-07-08, 01:44 PM | -Well, if you ever need any, I have a whole bunch of the more 'modern' DRAGON issues, from 300 to about 330 or so. Wow, thanks! Yeah, I never actually subscribed to Dragon, so I don't have most magazines.:) |
| ripvanwormer02-07-08, 03:02 PM | Because in her development, she was the god of the dead for the Suel and for no other people. If that were true, Wee Jas would be virtually unknown on Oerth, as there are few pure Suel societies left since their empire was destroyed 1000 years ago (the Scarlet Brotherhood, the Duchy of Urnst, the Rhizian barbarians, and the Amedi savages are the only ones left since the Lendorians were exiled from their island). Wee Jas is more commonly revered among those with partly Suel blood, but she's worshiped by others as well. For example, she is a popular deity in the Theocracy of the Pale, whose people are of mixed Oeridian and Flan descent. On Oerth, the Suel, Oeridian, and Flannae peoples (and in many cases the Baklunish) are mostly thoroughly mixed, and the old "pantheons" are a thing of the distant past. On topic, Wee Jas and the old (pre-Midnight) Mystra were friends and allies according to On Hallowed Ground. It could be that with Midnight out of the way, the Ruby Sorceress would feel obliged to step in and take care of her friend's old role. |
| MarkusTay6302-08-08, 01:19 AM | -The final issue of DRAGON includes: Gryaz Prison of Xagig Ring of Gaxx Talisman of Zagy Zagy Yagrax Yrag the Lord Zagig Yragerne Zagyg -By the way, was there something you wanted from that last issue, I remember reading? I can scan the pages, and send them to you...Hmmmm... I don't see the EGG of Coot in there. :P E.G.G. are Gygax's initials, and that artifact was created by Dave Arneson to poke fun at his one-time friend. We need to borrow a god from Marvel comics - how about Konshu? He was an Egyptian god (but only in the Marvel Universe), and it would be cool to have an army of 'Moonkights'. :D |
| ripvanwormer02-08-08, 10:56 AM | E.G.G. are Gygax's initials, and that artifact was created by Dave Arneson to poke fun at his one-time friend. That would make sense, but according to Gygax himself, 'According to Dave Arneson the "Egg of Coot" was created from the name "Gregg Scott," the chap who ran the MicroArmor casting company some years back. Gregg dismissed fantasy games as childish and claimed wargaming was "manly."' There are other Gygax anagrams (the city of Gryrax, the Duchy of Urnst, and the wizard Gygar from the D&D Basic Set), but the evidence is that the Egg of Coot is not one of them. |
| MarkusTay6302-08-08, 11:53 AM | Why couldn't it be both? From what I've read, 'Egg' was one of Gygax's nicknames. On topic, Wee Jas and the old (pre-Midnight) Mystra were friends and allies according to On Hallowed Ground. It could be that with Midnight out of the way, the Ruby Sorceress would feel obliged to step in and take care of her friend's old role.It also said that the old Mystra was the ONLY real friend Wee Jass had, and after her death during the ToT, Wee Jass 'lost it' - that is why she now leans towrd evil, even though her alignment is LN. I loved it back when the cosmologies mixed together - I miss those days. :( |
| Alediran02-08-08, 12:07 PM | Why couldn't it be both? From what I've read, 'Egg' was one of Gygax's nicknames. It also said that the old Mystra was the ONLY real friend Wee Jass had, and after her death during the ToT, Wee Jass 'lost it' - that is why she now leans towrd evil, even though her alignment is LN. I loved it back when the cosmologies mixed together - I miss those days. :( When I read On Hallowed Grounds I had the same feeling. |
| MarkusTay6302-08-08, 12:14 PM | I just got it last night, and I've been pouring through it (and drooling) since then. There might have been quite a lot of bad in 2e, but it was definately the most extensive period of lore in D&D history. I think I can forgive things like Giant Space Hamsters, considering the thousands of other wonderful things 2e gave us. ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-09-08, 12:32 AM | I just got it last night, and I've been pouring through it (and drooling) since then. -And, if only you came to the FRCC meeting, you'd have it, free of charge, on a CD, as promised. :P |
| MarkusTay6302-09-08, 02:30 AM | I found a very lovely little torrent, but thank you anyway. Now I have EVERY Planescape book. :P In my defense, if that was available ANYWHERE as a download, I would have paid for it (I've probably given Paizo around $300 the last few months). |
| Charles Phipps02-09-08, 02:43 AM | My Wee Jas in the Realms. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15047518&postcount=64 |
| Drew1369r02-12-08, 01:54 AM | Perhaps I'm wrong (and hopefully I am) But Wee Jas doesn't like magical secrets... so spellfire and silverfire could have more access in the Realms if she took over dominian of Magic? |
| ripvanwormer02-12-08, 02:04 AM | Why couldn't it be both? It could be both, but there's no evidence for it apart from the purely circumstantial. I'd be wary of repeating internet rumors as if they were true, especially when they're somewhat insulting to one of the parties in question. |