Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 03-30-08, 12:11 AM	I mean, we all have our bad sides. I can say in all honesty that I find Shar most attractive. I like Darkness, Nihilism and Oblivion with a malignant, unmerciful touch. Cyric and Bane, whilst cool, are far too worldly... Lolth I find disgusting...I don't like Spiders much.... Talos...some sympathy.... Shar just seems like a complex and fascinating figure and her evil is superseded by her nihilism, which has a decidedly neutral tone to it....
Rauric 03-30-08, 12:32 AM	Mask. Because Greed is good! Seriously. It makes more sense for sane baddies to follow him then it does to follow the queen of pain (Loviatar), or mistress of poison(Talona) or lord of chaos(Talos), or the king of madness(Cyric) or the queen of oblivion(Shar). When ya die while worshipping Mask you get stuck doing the things you loved in life. Cheating and stealing. Sounds like a plan if your a sane baddie.
sfdragon 03-30-08, 01:10 AM	evil deity, no got one, and my bad side is my embarrassing temper... id rather be left in the shadows most of the time so nobody notices me, but that hardly fits for mask
Todesherr 03-30-08, 01:59 AM	Mask. Because Greed is good! Seriously. It makes more sense for sane baddies to follow him then it does to follow the queen of pain (Loviatar), or mistress of poison(Talona) or lord of chaos(Talos), or the king of madness(Cyric) or the queen of oblivion(Shar). When ya die while worshipping Mask you get stuck doing the things you loved in life. Cheating and stealing. Sounds like a plan if your a sane baddie. How about Bane? If you go by your way of looking at things, if you serve him loyally you will likely reap great rewards in the afterlife.
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 02:10 AM	-Who do I feel most sympathetic for? Selvatarm. Selvatarm was born to Zandilar the Dancer when Vhaeraun captured her, and had his way with her. So, from the start, things weren't good. He then walked the fine line of neutrality until his Grandmother, Lolth, tricked him into absorbing the Demon Zannasu, turning him to evil. Then, to make matters worse, Lolth enslaved poor Selvatarm. -But, he's dead now, so no more suffering for him.
Meldread 03-30-08, 04:01 AM	I have the most sympathy toward Shar as well. I like her because she isn't your typical 'evil' deity. There is a complexity behind Shar that I find appealing, and I think that most people who dislike her simply don't understand her or see her the way I do. I see Sharran philosophy as something that is complex beyond most of the other deities. You just have to ignore what WotC, novel authors, and the like have done to her. :P Sharran Priests, in my view, preach a similar message as Buddhism. Of course, they twist it horribly, but I see laypeople as turning to Shar in hopes of escaping the loss and suffering in their lives. Do you live as a slave? Then Shar appeals to you. Hell. Shar appeals to everyone, good or evil. She is one of the few deities that I can see good aligned people eventually worshiping. An Ilmater priest who spends years seeing the worst humanity has to offer would certainly feel the call of Shar's teachings. Yet, at the same time, her teachings seem to warp people. They seem to change them in ways that they do not even understand until it is too late. Her teachings just have that perfect cult feel to them. A feel where ordinary everyday people can be drawn in and find themselves completely lost. Here is what I guess we can call the "Four Ignoble Truths" of Sharran philosophy. ;) This is what would be preached to the laypeople. 1. THERE IS SUFFERING (LOSS). According to Sharran beliefs, whatever life we lead, it will inevitably lead to suffering, dissatisfaction and loss. At first glance, it might seem untrue, even exceedingly morbid and pessimistic. Yet... is it really? Take any moment when you feel truly fulfilled, happy and content and examine it closely. Deep down under the joy, you will find the subtle, all-pervasive fear of loss, and you'll know that no matter how great that moment is, it is going to eventually end. No matter how much you just gained, you are going to lose some of it or spend the rest of your days guarding what you have and scheming how to get more. All for what? In the end, you're going to die. In the end, you lose everything. Everything in life is transitory. 2. THERE IS A CAUSE OF SUFFERING (LOSS). The reason that we experience suffering comes ultimately from our very existence. We exist and therefore we want things. We are attached to things. We hope for better things, and in our hopes and dreams, we allow ourselves to be clouded in delusion. All hope and promise of success is merely a delusion. If we achieve what we hope for it feeds into the delusion of happiness, temporarily allowing us to escape the loss and suffering, only to later lose it all and once again return to suffering. 3. SUFFERING (LOSS) CAN BE RELIEVED. Although existence is filled with suffering, it is possible to escape this pain through worshiping Shar and following the dictates of her holy servants. Her trusted servants, who are forced into secret lives by the delusional masses, strive to rid the faithful of their delusions. With their wisdom and guidance, we can rid ourselves of our delusions, and thus end our problems and suffering. It is similar to being sick. When we are ill we turn to a doctor, and she figures out what is wrong and prescribes medicine and advice. We then need to follow through with her instructions to get well. Likewise, when a Sharran Priest gives us instructions in order to assist in ending our suffering, we must follow those instructions, otherwise our suffering shall continue. 4. SUFFERING (LOSS) CAN END. There is only one way suffering can end and that is a return to the primeval void. Selune caused suffering when she destroyed the primeval void, and only Shar has the ability to return us to that perfect state. The void is a state beyond all suffering and delusions. Through empowering Shar, we herald the coming of this state of purity, a time when all suffering and loss shall end. Every follower that is brought into her worship empowers Shar and brings us a step closer to this ultimate goal.
Stigger 03-30-08, 09:15 AM	Loviatar... I definitely have the most sympathy for her. Then again, I think pain is a good thing that keeps a species from killing itself off. Pain, both physical and emotional, teach us quite a bit about both the world and ourselves, and definitely a good survival mechanism. Beyond even that, it gives us a way to appreciate pleasure, as it provides contrast for more positive sensations. Suffice to say, I've build an interesting, I think, heresy around thoughts like this... :D
Khaelieth 03-30-08, 10:28 AM	Beshaba
SATA 03-30-08, 01:21 PM	Since I don't like long posts, I will just name names: Shar Lolth Cyric Set Kiaransalee Tiamat
SmartPaladin 03-30-08, 02:22 PM	-Who do I feel most sympathetic for? Selvatarm. Selvatarm was born to Zandilar the Dancer when Vhaeraun captured her, and had his way with her. So, from the start, things weren't good. He then walked the fine line of neutrality until his Grandmother, Lolth, tricked him into absorbing the Demon Zannasu, turning him to evil. Then, to make matters worse, Lolth enslaved poor Selvatarm. -But, he's dead now, so no more suffering for him. Indeed, Selvatarm and Vhaeraun would be my pick for the Drow Gods. :( Loviatar... I definitely have the most sympathy for her. Then again, I think pain is a good thing that keeps a species from killing itself off. Pain, both physical and emotional, teach us quite a bit about both the world and ourselves, and definitely a good survival mechanism. Beyond even that, it gives us a way to appreciate pleasure, as it provides contrast for more positive sensations. Suffice to say, I've build an interesting, I think, heresy around thoughts like this... :D I don't think Loviatar would call it heresy, maybe I read her dogma wrong, but she seems a lot more caring then one would think. Which is why I like to entertain thoughts of her and Illmater together. :P So I'll put Loviatar on the as well. So, it's Selvatarm, Vhaeraun and Loviatar.
The_Shaman 03-30-08, 03:12 PM	I'd say Beshaba, Mask, Shar, and Bane. I'd say Beshaba's portfolio over misfortune is a very interesting one, and it ties into some of the dual pairs which I in general consider quite fascinating in Realmsian religion. Mask is a natural trickster deity - the main one in the standard pantheon - and thus his exploits can be much more varied and multifaceted than most other evil deities. Shar earns respect as a primordial power of darkness and void, and I'd rate her much highly if it weren't for what I think were fits of pique that somehow don't sit very impressively with a being nearly as old as the multiverse itself. Finally, Bane... In many ways, Bane deserves respect. Like Cyric, he was once a mortal who ascended through his own skill, drive and undoubtedly luck - but that is where the similarities pretty much end. Bane has wadded through the mountains of corpses and rivers of blood - his and his enemies' - to earn the right to challenge Jergal as part of the old three. He had no avatar of Mask to back him up and save his bum - he, Bhaal and Myrkul faced the Lost Gods with their own resources. He has also weathered the test of time well with centuries of divinity, while Cyric's escapades have lasted a few decades. Finally, his own dogma can be used for constructive purposes as well - as few can bring order and justice, if harsh and cruel, better to a land of chaos as Bane's disciples can. Among millenial beings of many worlds and strange, ancient powers, Bane - once a mere mortal - stands proud and justly commands fear. You can't ignore that.
Khaelieth 03-30-08, 05:18 PM	Well, Selvetarm too. Poor fellow.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 08:00 PM	-Who do I feel most sympathetic for? Selvatarm. Selvatarm was born to Zandilar the Dancer when Vhaeraun captured her, and had his way with her. So, from the start, things weren't good. He then walked the fine line of neutrality until his Grandmother, Lolth, tricked him into absorbing the Demon Zannasu, turning him to evil. Then, to make matters worse, Lolth enslaved poor Selvatarm. -But, he's dead now, so no more suffering for him. I feel sorry for him, Vhaeraun, and Kiaransalee for being victims of various silly plot devices, all in the self-same series of novels.
Lord Karsus 03-30-08, 08:22 PM	Indeed, Selvatarm and Vhaeraun would be my pick for the Drow Gods. :( -Vhaeraun, he was going along with his mother through his own volition, so the fact that he was banished from Arvandor doesn't phase me much. That said, as we were discussing, if Vhaeraun simply followed along with her, because he simply wanted maternal/paternal attention, as his father so clearly favored Eilistraee, then I certainly can sympathize with him. All of that, however, is simply hypothesis, and isn't necessarily true. -Now, asides for being killed in a stupid manner is the Lady Penitent trilogy, why do people have sympathy for Kiaransalee? That, I don't understand.
Khaelieth 03-31-08, 07:56 AM	-Now, asides for being killed in a stupid manner is the Lady Penitent trilogy, why do people have sympathy for Kiaransalee? That, I don't understand. She... keeps getting beaten up by Orcus?
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 08:58 AM	She... keeps getting beaten up by Orcus? -That's really like feeling bad for Franco, because Hitler overshadowed him.
Valgard 03-31-08, 09:58 AM	-That's really like feeling bad for Franco, because Hitler overshadowed him. Well, overshadowed only during WWII... we got our country paralyzed for about forty years. But let's not talk about politics... :rolleyes: Favored evil deity? Poor Gargauth, I don't know anything about him but his flavor makes him a great character/deity to follow... There's always Bane. Can an archwizard, who kills a greater deity and becomes a demigod for a few moments before all the Empire where he lived is condemned, be considered evil? :D
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 10:05 AM	Well, overshadowed only during WWII... we got our country paralyzed for about forty years. -Overshadowed, as in "the most evil dictator" category. ;) -Not for nothing, but most of those with only a pasing knowledge of 20th century European history and politics don't even know Franco, sadly...
MarkusTay63 04-01-08, 02:54 AM	Asmodeus. Because as Mick Jager says, we should all have Sympathy for the Devil. "Just as every cop is a criminal And all the sinners saints As heads is tails Just call me lucifer cause Im in need of some restraint So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy, and some taste Use all your well-learned politesse Or Ill lay your soul to waste, um yeah Pleased to meet you Hope you guessed my name, um yeah But whats puzzling you Is the nature of my game" :devil:
Jiggawha 04-01-08, 11:08 AM	Cyric, cause he's free
Khaelieth 04-01-08, 11:29 AM	Asmodeus. Because as Mick Jager says, we shuld all have Sympathy for the Devil. Damnit! Please allow me to introduce myself! i'm a man of wealth and taste! Awesome tune!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-01-08, 12:43 PM	-Now, asides for being killed in a stupid manner is the Lady Penitent trilogy, why do people have sympathy for Kiaransalee? That, I don't understand. Don't know if you were asking me, among others, but I have sympathy for her only because of the aforementioned stupid plot device.:)
johnkretzer 04-01-08, 02:23 PM	Besheba and Loviator...just because I can twist there dogma to serve non-evil ends, heck even to heroic ends. I don't veiw either as totaly evil... Talos also isn't bad for it either... My opinion of Shar has definitly dropped but that is mostly due the novelist depictions of her...
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 03:17 PM	Don't know if you were asking me, among others, but I have sympathy for her only because of the aforementioned stupid plot device.:) -I was asking everyone besides you, who mentioned Kiaransalee. That's why I said, "...asides for being killed in a stupid manner is the Lady Penitent trilogy...".
Alediran 04-01-08, 03:45 PM	Auril, love a cool drink. I don't see her as evil either, more CN than anything, which is the way I consider the deities of fury as, except for Malar (stinkin' dog who dared to attack Corellon and failed miserably), they are forces of nature, nature isn't evil, it simply is.
SATA 04-01-08, 04:26 PM	I named her so I'll justified: I like her as any of the deities I named above, mainly 'cuz of the concept they are based on and the concept they represents, 'cuz with time I tend to be disappointed of what happen in the evolutionary progress of those concepts and subjects.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 04:48 PM	I like her as any of the deities I named above, mainly 'cuz of the concept they are based on and the concept they represents, 'cuz with time I tend to be disappointed of what happen in the evolutionary progress of those concepts and subjects. -The question isn't "What evil deities do you like?". It's "What evil deities do you feel bad for?". That said, it's a more 'metagame' reason like/feel bad for Kiaransalee, then, and not an in-game reason, then?
SATA 04-01-08, 05:18 PM	-The question isn't "What evil deities do you like?". It's "What evil deities do you feel bad for?". That said, it's a more 'metagame' reason like/feel bad for Kiaransalee, then, and not an in-game reason, then? Well, check again the name of the thread... What evil deity do you have the most sympahty for? Not what you think... Since, 'sympahty' is misspelled and the actual spelling is sympathy, then I guess I'm right. It's about sympathy not pity.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 05:26 PM	Well, check again the name of the thread... What evil deity do you have the most sympahty for? Not what you think... Since, 'sympahty' is misspelled and the actual spelling is sympathy, then I guess I'm right. It's about sympathy not pity. Sympathy: Feelings or impulses of compassion. -Your response specifically used the phrase "I like her...". As I said, we're not discussing why we like said deities. We are discussing why we feel bad (have sympathy) for said deities.
SATA 04-01-08, 06:00 PM	Again, it's not pity is sympathy and that definition is not what I know and have found, and in any case, it well may be used your way if we take it out of context, like in the current case. Also, I quote the initial post of the thread to clarify the context. ...finito. I mean, we all have our bad sides. I can say in all honesty that I find Shar most attractive. I like Darkness, Nihilism and Oblivion with a malignant, unmerciful touch. Cyric and Bane, whilst cool, are far too worldly... Lolth I find disgusting...I don't like Spiders much.... Talos...some sympathy.... Shar just seems like a complex and fascinating figure and her evil is superseded by her nihilism, which has a decidedly neutral tone to it....
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-01-08, 08:46 PM	Lets see, I'd have to go with bane. For a few reasons. 1) Bane has gone through alot, with all his dying and coming back, and then struggling. It jsut seems that he has some dues owed to him. 2) I like Bane, because with him battling (and hopefully killing) Cyric (which I don't see happening but one can hope), he will free up one of Mask's worries and letting him focus more of his malice and time on Shar, finally destroying her and Mask will have both Intrigue and Darkness for his troubles. THREE CHEARS FOR MASK!! ... Hip-Hip- Hurray! ... Hip-Hip- Hurray! ... Hip-Hip- Hurray! and so on and so forth.
Lord Karsus 04-01-08, 11:56 PM	Again, it's not pity is sympathy and that definition is not what I know and have found, and in any case, it well may be used your way if we take it out of context, like in the current case. -Being the big, bad, cocky college student that I am, I think I know what the definition of 'sympathy' is. :rolleyes: -Being sympathetic towards =/= having sympathy for
LumTheMad 04-02-08, 12:09 AM	Cyric The fact that he killed Mystra makes me like him even more.
MarkusTay63 04-02-08, 06:47 PM	WOW... you ARE mad. :bigeyes: :P ;) Umberlee, because I think she's misunderstood. As long as you pay her tribute, she leaves folks alone. Only when you try and 'cheat her' does she get mad. And, she has GOOD clergy that rescue people! they're called Anchors, and are described as a "cross between a mercenary and a lifegaurd". Thats from the 2e Wizards and Priests of the Realms. I like that - Storm Gods should not neccessarily be evil (just hot-headed). That tome is great - there are dozens of examples of priesthoods that are very different then their deities alignment. :D I think alignment restrictions should be done away with, because we have canon that says otherwise - that might be one of the few 4e FR changes I'm in agreement with.
Khaelieth 04-02-08, 08:26 PM	WOW... you ARE mad. :bigeyes: :P ;) Umberlee, because I think she's misunderstood. As long as you pay her tribute, she leaves folks alone. Only when you try and 'cheat her' does she get mad. And, she has GOOD clergy that rescue people! they're called Anchors, and are described as a "cross between a mercenary and a lifegaurd". Thats from the 2e Wizards and Priests of the Realms. I like that - Storm Gods should not neccessarily be evil (just hot-headed). That tome is great - there are dozens of examples of priesthoods that are very different then their deities alignment. :D I think alignment restrictions should be done away with, because we have canon that says otherwise - that might be one of the few 4e FR changes I'm in agreement with. *Drunkenly attempts to high-five MT*
Lord Karsus 04-02-08, 11:29 PM	Umberlee, because I think she's misunderstood. As long as you pay her tribute, she leaves folks alone. Only when you try and 'cheat her' does she get mad. -That she is. She shouldn't be such a *****, though. She'd have more fans if she weren't.
Todesherr 04-03-08, 09:33 AM	-Being the big, bad, cocky college student that I am, I think I know what the definition of 'sympathy' is. :rolleyes: -Being sympathetic towards =/= having sympathy for Ah, I understand now why you think you will collect social security....;)
Stigger 04-03-08, 11:21 AM	I don't think any of us are going to be collecting social security... at least not with the current state of things. Pity clerics of Waukeen aren't running things... then we might have a chance. Not really, but gotta try to keep at least a little on topic. :D
Todesherr 04-03-08, 11:38 AM	I don't think any of us are going to be collecting social security... at least not with the current state of things. Pity clerics of Waukeen aren't running things... then we might have a chance. Not really, but gotta try to keep at least a little on topic. :D I was just aghast at how Lord Karsus blithely dismissed the mounting financial disaster of the Imperium Americanum. He strikes me as an intelligent fellow, which is why I was doubly shocked.
Lord Karsus 04-03-08, 11:44 AM	Ah, I understand now why you think you will collect social security....;) -When did I say I was going to collect Social Security? :rolleyes: -I'm going to be dead before I become eligible for that...
Stigger 04-03-08, 11:52 AM	I don't really think the financial situation of the US is in some impending meltdown... our economy is far too strong for complete meltdown as far as I can tell, despite what a few doomsayers would have us believe. My issue with social security is more from the governments consistent tactic of borrowing money from it, and the issue of more people drawing funds out of it as the boomers begin to retire than there are people putting funds into it... that was bound to happen even if there economy weren't in a downturn, has been for a good long while now. As to the Imperium Americanum... it was far, far, far worse during the 20th century if one cares to look. This modern stuff is barely a blip on the radar compared to the stuff we were pulling off in the name of business (South and Central America, Hawaii, Japan, etc) and democracy (any number of client states during the Cold War)... this recent stuff is strictly small potatos in comparison.
Ulicus 04-03-08, 12:00 PM	@ Topic Cyric, actually. I very much liked his character in Shadowdale, and the ending of the Avatar Trilogy always made me feel immense sorrow for him. :( I was rather fond of the unrequited/spurned love angle. It'll sound odd, but a part of me always wanted him to redeem himself, somehow. I really liked the idea that, for all his talk, he was still head-over-heels in love with Mystra and I pictured him actually dying to save her from Shar or something. Which is highly amusing to me in light of recent developments.
Lord Karsus 04-03-08, 12:32 PM	I was rather fond of the unrequited/spurned love angle. It'll sound odd, but a part of me always wanted him to redeem himself, somehow. I really liked the idea that, for all his talk, he was still head-over-heels in love with Mystra and I pictured him actually dying to save her from Shar or something. -Before the novel ended, I figured that Cyric would redeem himself as well.
Kiioro 04-03-08, 04:57 PM	So I looked up Sympathy. Sympathy as Lord Karsus accurately defined it, I'd say Cyric. I, too, wanted for him to reedeem himself (not becoming actually good, but less pathetic, as I had liked him in the first book of the Avatar series). Sympathy as in "the harmony of feeling naturally existing between persons of like tastes or opinion or of congenial dispositions"; one of the other definitions from Dictionary.reference.com, has more to do with the spanish meaning of the word 'simpatía'. In that case, I'd say: * Loviatar. When I'm angered, I tend to get... well... a bit sadistic. * Beshaba. Everybody who has known me for more than a few months knows that I have my bad-luck-week once or twice every year. * Mask. He doesn't seem to be the "bwahahaha, I'm so eeeevil guy", besides, the trickery and luck domain make him more appealing to me.
Todesherr 04-03-08, 08:21 PM	-When did I say I was going to collect Social Security? :rolleyes: -I'm going to be dead before I become eligible for that... As yet unrevealed plans lord?:eek:
Lord Karsus 04-03-08, 11:31 PM	As yet unrevealed plans lord?:eek: -Family history.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-04-08, 11:23 AM	I was just aghast at how Lord Karsus blithely dismissed the mounting financial disaster of the Imperium Americanum. He strikes me as an intelligent fellow, which is why I was doubly shocked. Can you please stop making these "America is doomed" comments? I like you, but these comments are annoying and inappropriate.
Bonzai 04-04-08, 11:44 AM	Lol, believe it or not... Besheba. Think about it for a second. You are birthed from a Goddess who was torn in two. Originally, there was a balance to the portfolio. You got to administer good luck as well as bad. Now you are stuck with inflicting miss fortune on humanity. This is a necessary and crucial task. For without adversity and ill fortune, mankind would never have to strive and overcome. They would never grow, and would become lazy and complacent. Without loss, how would mankind learn and cherish what is important? This is Besheba's gift to the world, the oportunity to achieve. And yet, it is a thankless task, and she is feared and loathed almost univerally. And to make matters worse, she's incredibly hot! No one really appreciates her for who she is, they are all after her for her body. No wonder she's become bitter and angry over the last millenia. This was actually inspired by a Hexblade I had made, who of all the mortals in the realm, was actually in love with her. Lol. It inspired me to make this Heresy here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=986187&highlight=heresy+Besheba
Stigger 04-04-08, 02:11 PM	Now that's an interesting idea I might just have to swipe from you Bonzai... thanks. :D
Zsych 04-05-08, 05:48 PM	Hmm... 1. Shar because she was betrayed by her sister. 2. Mystryl, because she seems kinda like a simple minded kid to me, and died for no real reason. 3. Karsus, because he did the best he could to save his people, and on top of failing, ended up destroying them. Selvatarm... I suppose I feel some pity for that character.
Lord Karsus 04-05-08, 10:30 PM	3. Karsus, because he did the best he could to save his people, and on top of failing, ended up destroying them. -Slowly, but surely, I'm making inroads in getting my good name cleared.
JoeFirebritches 04-05-08, 11:42 PM	Imperium Americanum? You are aware that the world is nothing like a Disney movie, right? We aren't living on a globe lacking in nation states desiring dominion. China, Russia, the European Union? Everyone wants to rule the sandbox. If you happen to live here, and choose to exercise your freedom by *****ing about your government, by all means do so. Just recognize that you are able to do so because you live in this country. As to the topic at hand, I have the most sympathy for Mask. Losing part of your anatomy to the Chaos hound, your portfolio to a certain upstart whining crybaby of a deity, and surviving to strike from the shadows says a lot about the patron of thieves. He's not a complete bastich like Bane, and he's not madly in love with himself like Cyric. He's too cynical to buy into Shar's "despair" (personally I think Shar likes to snack on the souls of her adherents, a'la Warren Ellis's take on cosomology in Hellstorm. But I digress . . .) His darkness, while still deplorable (I do favor the Paladin-types), is understandable. It isn't insane. It is an almost rational evil. Almost. Because of course you're taking something you never earned, never labored for, never purchased, just because you're strong enough, or cunning enough, to victimize the true owner. Bastard. But still, if you're going to fall, my kind of bastard . . .
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-07-08, 01:16 PM	-Slowly, but surely, I'm making inroads in getting my good name cleared. You don't count here, because you are not an evil deity.:)
Lord Karsus 04-07-08, 02:31 PM	You don't count here, because you are not an evil deity.:) -We know that. The ignorant masses? Not so much...
Soltares 04-09-08, 02:11 PM	Bane. In other settings the evil god of tyranny and oppression is *major* and has multiple large countries in his thrall, dominating a good quarter to third of the map. (Chardun in the Scarred Lands being tyrant of Duhnanae, Calastia and the Land of Chains, and Hextor in Greyhawk being tyrant of Aerdie, the Great Kingdom, being two such examples.) In the Realms the Tyrant-god's got the Keystone Cops, based out of Weeble Keep, that gets knocked down, and then gets back up, and then gets knocked down again, like a Chumbawumba song. When Bane and Torn snuff each other in a climactic throwdown, the supposedly above-politics over-god pops down and says, 'Oh Torm, my woobie, you died in service to your ethos. You get a do-over! And a promotion. And maybe a lap-dance, if you play your cards right. Oh, and Bane, you *also* died in service to your ethos, attempting to spread your tyranny and take over new lands and all that rot. But I don't like you, and I make the rules, which means I don't actually have to follow them. Eat bugs and die.' Bane got totally hosed. Cyric the crazy god I've got no sympathy for, but the nice human rogue from the first novel, who comforted Midnight when Kelemvore was being a complete dick to her? Him I have sympathy for. Then he bumped his head on a rock or something and turned into a mustachio-twirling evil caricature in the next book and I wondered what the heck happened... I'm also fond of Auril, but that's nothing to do with sympathy and everything to do with my being cold-blooded and hating warm weather. :)
Meldread 04-09-08, 05:54 PM	Soltares- I agree with you in regard to Bane. I think he gets a bad rap. I mean, really, I don't consider Bane all that evil at the core. It kinda feels like the evil stuff is just tacked on, because in my minds eye I see Bane more like a strict authoritarian. It is lawfulness taken to its logical extreme. In the end, even a Paladin can become a tyrant - the old saying always holds true, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Bane may not have good intentions, but that doesn't mean all tyrants also do not have good intentions. Though, admittedly, a tyrant will normally always slide toward evil because having absolute power usually - except in extremely rare and notable circumstances - corrupts absolutely. In order to hold onto power when it is ultimately threatened by rivals it may require evil acts. However, that does not necessarily mean that the tyrant has to be evil.
Todesherr 04-11-08, 10:45 AM	Imperium Americanum? You are aware that the world is nothing like a Disney movie, right? We aren't living on a globe lacking in nation states desiring dominion. China, Russia, the European Union? Everyone wants to rule the sandbox. If you happen to live here, and choose to exercise your freedom by *****ing about your government, by all means do so. Just recognize that you are able to do so because you live in this country. As to the topic at hand, I have the most sympathy for Mask. Losing part of your anatomy to the Chaos hound, your portfolio to a certain upstart whining crybaby of a deity, and surviving to strike from the shadows says a lot about the patron of thieves. He's not a complete bastich like Bane, and he's not madly in love with himself like Cyric. He's too cynical to buy into Shar's "despair" (personally I think Shar likes to snack on the souls of her adherents, a'la Warren Ellis's take on cosomology in Hellstorm. But I digress . . .) His darkness, while still deplorable (I do favor the Paladin-types), is understandable. It isn't insane. It is an almost rational evil. Almost. Because of course you're taking something you never earned, never labored for, never purchased, just because you're strong enough, or cunning enough, to victimize the true owner. Bastard. But still, if you're going to fall, my kind of bastard . . . I don't live in the states; I used to. I have no desire to earn the pathetically weak dollar either. People are waking up and soon USD as 'the gold standard' will be out the window...
ORC_Sinister 04-11-08, 11:17 AM	Folks, Let's stay on topic. Please no political debates in this thread about evil dieties for DnD. Thanks, Sin
Kiioro 04-12-08, 12:15 AM	Oh... and Talona. The only way I'd worship her would be if I lived near a yuan-ti settlement and couldn't move out. So, only out of fear of an inescapable situation.
The_Shaman 04-12-08, 10:40 AM	BTW, does anyone have any favourites among the monstrous and monstrous demihuman deities? I thought some of the orcoid and the giant deities were interesting, but I'm not sure what their latest incarnations in the Realms look like.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 10:51 AM	BTW, does anyone have any favourites among the monstrous and monstrous demihuman deities? -Blibdoolpoolp! :)
Stigger 04-12-08, 11:03 AM	Sekolah I found interesting... though she doesn't really fit my conception of what a shark-ish deity should be.
Derren S. 04-12-08, 12:27 PM	Malar. Hating elves is a major redeeming factor.
Kiioro 04-12-08, 12:44 PM	-Blibdoolpoolp! :) I agree, I can't say that name without smirking at least. But pronunciation factors aside: The Great Mother. It goes beyond me how would anyone revere an ancient, wrinkled, one-eyed giant flying meatball that might not be a deity at all.
Lord Karsus 04-12-08, 12:53 PM	I agree, I can't say that name without smirking at least. But pronunciation factors aside: -Pretend you are a leaky pipe, and there you go.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-13-08, 08:39 PM	I agree, I can't say that name without smirking at least. Ditto!:D
Zireael 04-14-08, 03:33 AM	My two favourites are Lloth and Shar. Obvious why?
Soltares 04-16-08, 10:59 AM	BTW, does anyone have any favourites among the monstrous and monstrous demihuman deities? I'm a huge fan of tons of 'demihuman' dieties, but the monstrous ones never really impressed me that much. Semuanya seemed boring, Loagzed was pointless, Sekolah at least had the whole ultimate predator thing going on, but still, 'mindless eating machine' gets old as a 'god.' Might as well worship a Gelatinous Cube. Ilsensine and 'the Great Mother' seemed to defeat the whole 'so arrogant they don't believe in gods' nature of the Illithids and Beholders. Plus, neither was very interesting. The Giant and Dragon pantheons are just deadly dull. If I had to pick one, it would be Sekolah, because I think I could work with that one.
Uchiha_Arthas 04-17-08, 03:03 AM	Dieties I feel sympathy for: Bane, Cyric (Before his Lobotomy), Shar. Dieties I like: Shar, Lolth and Tiamat, Mask & Bane (Can I put down Asmodeous here as well?)
Khaelieth 04-17-08, 06:36 PM	Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun and Selvetarm. Reasons are pretty obvious.
Mr. Wilson 04-23-08, 03:35 AM	If preached correctly, Shar and Bane have the two most powerful selling points. Shar offers an escape from pain, and Bane offers security.
Rasputen_Bel_Kuhr 04-23-08, 07:18 AM	Shar is awesome Cyric is just wrong - he should seriously die, i mean he ****** off everyone else in the pantheon - temp alliance to kill him then back to normalcy Saved by the in-built edit
Khaelieth 04-23-08, 11:01 AM	My favourite monstrous deity's Sune... Wait, humans are monstrous? Hmmm... have to go for... ilsensine.
Lord Karsus 04-23-08, 12:14 PM	Hmmm... have to go for... ilsensine. -As Soltares said, Ilsensine kind of defeats one of the staples of Illithid society, merging with the Elder Brain and all upon death. I want to like Ilsensine, but sometimes, she is just...redundant. In my own campaign setting, within one of the Illithid cities, faction war is currently going one between worshippers of Ilsensine, and those loyal to the Elder Brain.
Jiggawha 04-23-08, 12:42 PM	I don't have sympathy, but I like to use their worshippers as villains Queen of Air and Darkness Cegilune Ravana Panzuriel
bayke 04-23-08, 07:14 PM	I could easily see myself worshipping Bane but I've always felt that his dogma in the books seemed less than Lawful. Causing strife and the overthrow of other religions seems rather Chaotic to me. I understand that he wants to replace the established order with his own, but a truly Lawful god would do it legally and with a minimum of disruption.
Khaelieth 04-23-08, 07:52 PM	-As Soltares said, Ilsensine kind of defeats one of the staples of Illithid society, merging with the Elder Brain and all upon death. I want to like Ilsensine, but sometimes, she is just...redundant. In my own campaign setting, within one of the Illithid cities, faction war is currently going one between worshippers of Ilsensine, and those loyal to the Elder Brain. it's an "it," not a "she!" But always thought of it as that their physical memories merge with the Elder Brain and their souls go to ilsy.
bayke 04-25-08, 09:54 AM	I always saw the Elder Brain as the fantasy equivilent of the Kree Supreme Intelligence (from Marvel Comics).
Lord Karsus 04-25-08, 11:34 AM	it's an "it," not a "she!" But always thought of it as that their physical memories merge with the Elder Brain and their souls go to ilsy. -She...It...Whichever. I recall Ilsensine having a female personality in her depiction in Finder's Bane.
Stigger 04-25-08, 12:31 PM	I thought Planescape gave Ilsensine a somewhat masculine personality... guess 'it' probably works best.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-25-08, 01:01 PM	I like "It" because I think it's funny.:)
Khaelieth 04-25-08, 01:27 PM	I like "It" because I think it's funny.:) it? http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/it-pennywise-howling.jpg
Soltares 04-25-08, 02:05 PM	I always saw the Elder Brain as the fantasy equivilent of the Kree Supreme Intelligence (from Marvel Comics). Me too. With shades of Eternal Overmind and Borg Collective and Hebrew guf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guf) or Islamic 'soul pool.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_of_souls)
Lord Karsus 04-25-08, 03:47 PM	Me too. With shades of Eternal Overmind and Borg Collective and Hebrew guf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guf) or Islamic 'soul pool.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_of_souls) -Well of Souls fantasy is fun. I know, in my own setting, I've incorporated the Bastion of Souls from the adventure.
Straploknight 04-28-08, 01:08 AM	Damnit! Please allow me to introduce myself! i'm a man of wealth and taste! Awesome tune! Indeed
Straploknight 04-28-08, 01:14 AM	Cyric The fact that he killed Mystra makes me like him even more. That Bastage! I'm not a fan of Mystra, but I did like Midnight. Odd how it makes me kinda sad they took her out like that. That said, I think I'll go with Cyric, the man just wanted to be free to live his own life, instead he got a raw bargin.
Straploknight 04-28-08, 01:22 AM	The Great Mother. It goes beyond me how would anyone revere an ancient, wrinkled, one-eyed giant flying meatball that might not be a deity at all. Everybody likes their mom (well most everybody).
Kiioro 04-30-08, 02:04 PM	I like my mom. That being said, I don't revere my mother nor ask for her divine favor. She can cast geas-quest at will, though. But my mom isn't an ancient, wrinkled, flying, sagging, one-eyed, evil flying meatball with extra eyestalks. (Thank goodness).
Khaelieth 05-02-08, 06:35 AM	-She...It...Whichever. I recall Ilsensine having a female personality in her depiction in Finder's Bane. Female personality? Yes, i can see how this fits in with aberrations. Also would explain the Great Mother.
Lord Karsus 05-02-08, 11:49 AM	Female personality? -As in, while the gender might be in question, it acted as if it were female. Like, Ventress the Mindflayer, for example.
BARDOBARBAROS 05-02-08, 12:12 PM	I like Myrkul and Mask