Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arbourean 03-11-07, 05:17 PM	Considering he orchestrated the Dawn Cataclysm, tried to murder both Beshaba and Tymora to reform Tyche (betraying allies in the process) and is currently plotting yet another Realms shaking event, when is he finally going to just fall outright to evil? I have a hard time considering him NG considering his actions.
Jax_Nightstalker 03-11-07, 06:00 PM	Considering he orchestrated the Dawn Cataclysm, tried to murder both Beshaba and Tymora to reform Tyche (betraying allies in the process) and is currently plotting yet another Realms shaking event, when is he finally going to just fall outright to evil? I have a hard time considering him NG considering his actions. Finally somebody who sees what I see. Lathander is a arrogant Greater Power who should be slapped around alittle bit by another high up or even placed in that silver void by Horus-Re. It is hard to believe this so called god is Neutral Good after his actions with Tymora and Beshaba. Just goes to show not even so called good gods are above causing injustice to others.:rolleyes:
Perun 03-11-07, 06:03 PM	Well, hopefully, Sunmaster Orndeir will get to do his stunt in Elversult, which will bring on the transformation of Lathander into Amaunator, or at least split him into two separate deities. Yes, I know, not realistic, but one can hope :)
GothicDan 03-11-07, 07:35 PM	I really like Lathander. He's following his portfolio to a T; that's what matters.
Old Sage 03-11-07, 08:30 PM	We currently don't know enough about what Lathander's plans are surrounding "the Deliverance", so it's difficult to say. We have only the initial bits Eric wrote into F&P and that's about it.
ericlboyd 03-11-07, 08:33 PM	We currently don't know enough about what Lathander's plans are surrounding "the Deliverance", so it's difficult to say. We have only the initial bits Eric wrote into F&P and that's about it. You know, it's been so long I don't remember for sure, but I'm pretty sure Erik Mona did the Lathander write-up. In any event, I really like it, and I've been playing with Lathander's "evolution" ever since. --Eric
GothicDan 03-11-07, 08:35 PM	Keep at it, Mr. Boyd! Lathander is one of my favorite deities - because he has personality, among other things.
Old Sage 03-11-07, 08:35 PM	::cue ominous music::
Dark Wizard 03-11-07, 08:39 PM	Good beings can make mistakes too, just like evil beings can have a 'touch of benevolence.'
Arbourean 03-11-07, 08:46 PM	Lathander has caused considerably more damage to the Balance than Mystra, Cyric or Kelemvor ever did, yet I cannot recall the Morninglord ever being brought to trial and faced with annihilation by the Circle. He's got connections.
Wizard56 03-11-07, 08:50 PM	He's also much older than those other 3 gods. That probably counts for something.
createvmind 03-11-07, 09:11 PM	He did not intend to murder either of the ladies of Luck, he sought to reunite them to regain his buddy Tyche since Chauntea wasn't paying him any attention at the time. Actually it was Chauntea who put the idea in his head.
Wizard56 03-11-07, 10:50 PM	Perhaps Lathander's planning from time to time includes more enthusiasm than clear thinking.
Aldareth 03-12-07, 08:40 AM	Lathander has caused considerably more damage to the Balance than Mystra, Cyric or Kelemvor ever did, yet I cannot recall the Morninglord ever being brought to trial and faced with annihilation by the Circle. He's got connections. That was not a "connection" thing, mystra was brought to the trial because she misused her portofolio. Lathander on the other side follows his portofolio, so there is no reason for a trial.In following his portofolio he didnt "damage" the balance because this is what he is expectet to do.
DrBoron 03-12-07, 12:04 PM	Not to mention that it would seem unlikely for Lathander to be considered "evil" for any of the above listed actions in a world where the Harpers are a rather unambiguously "good" organization. Ends justify means for non-lawful good characters, it would seem :)
The_Shaman 03-12-07, 12:22 PM	I think it's more naivete than ill will on his part. He may like or hate Beshaba and Tymora, but if he thinks that they'll be better off united he could do it with the purest feelings towards both. Okay, this would imply a far-from-divine wisdom score, granted. However, maybe it's because he doesn't just mess up some minor plan; he messes up some royally big plans :)
Optimystik 03-12-07, 02:27 PM	I think you're all forgetting the real problem: THIS GUY (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fp_gallery/fp1/Bane_p16.jpg) Compared to that, is another cataclysm so bad?
createvmind 03-12-07, 02:33 PM	Lathander is far more problematic simply due to him not thinking through the reprucussions of his "desires", again he was thinking of neither Luck goddess, he simply figured they'd obviously rather be united and Tyche would surely wish to return. So as compared to Bane who has plans that he wishes to see accomplished without creating evn far larger problems, I'd take a Bane for 300 over a Lathander double jeopardy anyday.
Optimystik 03-12-07, 02:54 PM	So as compared to Bane who has plans that he wishes to see accomplished without creating evn far larger problems, I'd take a Bane for 300 over a Lathander double jeopardy anyday. Of course, he doesn't. That's because there *is* no larger problem than Bane's plans - at least in my opinion! And a bunch of the gods agree with me. From F&P: Oghma, Chauntea, and Lliira know of Lathander's plans, but so far, each has remained silent. With the return of Bane, many progressive deities believe that direct action must be taken to destroy evil once and for all, and that no unintended consequences of Lathander's plans could be as threatening to the world as simply standing by and doing nothing. So the Morninglord's getting a bit crazy. I don't see YOU coming up with anything!
Stigger 03-12-07, 04:46 PM	Well if one looks at the issue from the point of a view of undoing a great evil against Tyche by Moander, then it makes perfect sense, and definitely fits in with a NG alignment.
Wizard56 03-12-07, 05:50 PM	I'm inclined to think Lathander has a good heart, but likes to rush cheerfully into projects without a lot of planning.
Arbourean 03-12-07, 07:45 PM	I'm inclined to think Lathander has a good heart, but likes to rush cheerfully into projects without a lot of planning. Which on reflection I must admit fits in perfectly with his portfolio of youth, but I do expect better considering from a Faerunian Greater Power not named Cyric.
bloodtalon 03-12-07, 08:20 PM	He's also much older than those other 3 gods. That probably counts for something. his is not older then Mystra she has the knowledge, experince and stuff from all the others who had her place. unless you go by how i think that she has the knowledge but is more likely to follow her human mind for the first 100 or so years
Jax_Nightstalker 03-13-07, 03:57 PM	Yes, Lathander is much much older than the current Mystra. It doesn't really matter if she does have the knowledge of the past Mystra's, Lathander has the experience of being a divine being. Yes some of the other gods know of Lathander plans, but to rid the world of evil once and for all is not realistic. There will be evil in the world always. What's next? Is Lathander going to try to clean up the Lower Planes by going up against the Abyssal Lords and Archdevils? Is he going to force his will on the mortals on how they choose to live their lives? Take away free will? With the plans Lathander is making would it cause the Balance to be threaten? I don't know about everyone else but Lathander plans are far reaching and is doom to fail once again with prehaps lose of more divine lives. For a Greater Power he is not wise.
Stigger 03-13-07, 04:46 PM	Power doesn't equate to Wisdom... sure its doomed to fail, but he just wouldn't be him if he didn't try. Besides, he's got the example of Tyr to look to, great idea (crusade for justice in the Vilhon), stick around to keep things good (join the pantheon), and be the big paternal figure everyone looks to (founded the Triad and did the greater deity thing)... Lathander's not doing anything Tyr hasn't done, just on a much larger scale that Tyr never had the vision to undertake (well, more likely the wisdom not to try, but we're taking Lathander's POV here) and won't it be fantastic? Not the brightest of plans, but well, that's Lathander for you. ;)
Optimystik 03-13-07, 08:23 PM	Power doesn't equate to Wisdom... sure its doomed to fail, but he just wouldn't be him if he didn't try. Besides, he's got the example of Tyr to look to, great idea (crusade for justice in the Vilhon), stick around to keep things good (join the pantheon), and be the big paternal figure everyone looks to (founded the Triad and did the greater deity thing)... Lathander's not doing anything Tyr hasn't done, just on a much larger scale that Tyr never had the vision to undertake (well, more likely the wisdom not to try, but we're taking Lathander's POV here) and won't it be fantastic? Not the brightest of plans, but well, that's Lathander for you. ;) My point exactly! If he sat around being *wise* he'd just turn into A-monotone-r and be done with it. Let the boy dream!
Pystian 03-13-07, 11:26 PM	Could anyone lead me in the direction of more information about how Lathander wanted to put Tymora and Beshaba "back together"?
Arbourean 03-14-07, 12:27 AM	Could anyone lead me in the direction of more information about how Lathander wanted to put Tymora and Beshaba "back together"? The novel Tymora's Luck shows the way.
Azar_of_Faerun 03-14-07, 01:47 AM	How can you even begin to judge the actions of a god? That is real arrogance :)
Stigger 03-14-07, 02:56 AM	And there's suddenly some shortage of that among humans? ;)
mwbeeler 03-14-07, 03:10 AM	It's a philosophical question really: Is unchecked good really the true evil? Out of a desire to reshape the cosmos in Lathander’s view of what is right, he systematically oppresses all opposing viewpoints; thus neutrality is truly the only "good."
Stigger 03-14-07, 03:14 AM	I tend to view neutrality as apathy, with a few exceptions of course, so I'd rather have rampant goodness than someone who just doesn't care one way or another. Personally at least. But regardless, I doubt Ao would let Lathander get far if he actually started succeeding in the harebrained scheme.
Terraneaux 03-14-07, 03:20 PM	It seems that lathander is particularly exempt from any requirement of his alignment-but iirc Amaunator was LN, so it makes sense that as he imposes his worldview on the other gods (could be a lawful act) and in doing so slips to neutral. Remember, though, the gods in FR *can* be second-guessed-they're not omniscient, just mentally a few levels of magnitude above most mortals. And sometimes they are wrong, both morally and factually.
GothicDan 03-14-07, 04:37 PM	I really don't understand why people think Lathander's so not-good. Read his entry in Faiths and Pantheons (or Faiths and Avatars). He is clearly of good alignment. One event done long ago for what he thought was the greater good does NOT define who he is as a whole, nor would it with ANY deity - or any mortal. And given his good intentions, I think it would have weighed out whatever one could consider were the evil side effects of his plan, to make it a neutarl act overall anyway.
Optimystik 03-15-07, 01:46 AM	One event done long ago for what he thought was the greater good does NOT define who he is as a whole, nor would it with ANY deity - or any mortal. Ah, but his subsequent REACTION to that event *would*. And the fact that he shows no repentance whatsoever for the Dawn Cataclysm but instead (a) blamed it totally on Shar and (b) is actively planning another speaks more to his character than the mistake itself. I personally don't see him as even close to evil, I'm just playing baatezu's advocate to promote discussion.
Stigger 03-15-07, 06:14 PM	Neutral Good... does whatever he must for the greater good, regardless of ethics, just so long as the good part is done. How is trying to get rid of evil in the world not fitting into that, regardless of how stupid the plan actually is?
The_Shaman 03-16-07, 08:44 AM	It's a means and end scenario. If some of the means are evil, the end can not be unequivocably good. The matter is, are they?
Stigger 03-16-07, 08:57 AM	Depends... it really depends on how you're defining evil as well. Ethics and morality are two pretty different things, easily confused, and really hard, if not impossible, to define a lot of times given the intermingling they often receive by most people. It's kinda like trying to find a clear definition of what constitutes art... or beauty for that matter.
ShadezofDis 03-16-07, 10:06 AM	Depends... it really depends on how you're defining evil as well. In my FR evil is what the gods say evil is evil, good is what the gods say good is good. I got by the god's alignment and their dogma, if your actions follow a particular dogma then that is how you will "detect" (note: your actions in general, I am a-ok with good guys doing evil things for the greater good {ie. ends justify the means}) Ethics and morality are two pretty different things, easily confused, and really hard, if not impossible, to define a lot of times given the intermingling they often receive by most people. It's kinda like trying to find a clear definition of what constitutes art... or beauty for that matter. Indeed, I've taken quite a few ethics courses and as far as I can tell it's just a general social agreement as to what is ethical and what is not. But if we continue to converse in this vein we're likely to run into some kinda big argument ;D
Stigger 03-16-07, 03:21 PM	Only problem, presuming we're going by D&D standards on alignment, where good is concerned, the end never justifies the means. Evil is still evil and it's not a matter of degrees, in the strictest sense of goodness. At least as far as exalted goes... not sure exactly where I'd stick Lathander though. Not sure he fits in with the theme of exalted.
Zsych 03-17-07, 04:55 AM	I think, with Lathandar, you attribute such actions to well-meaning stupidity. And Since I'm sure many of us could out-plan most of these gods(as they have been represented in the literature), I'd say we do have the right to judge them :) Not that being judged idiots by mortals stops them from being gods :)
GothicDan 03-17-07, 11:23 AM	h, but his subsequent REACTION to that event *would*. And the fact that he shows no repentance whatsoever for the Dawn Cataclysm but instead (a) blamed it totally on Shar and Of course he would show no repentance for it. He's a god that is ALL ABOUT giving up old things and picking up the new; rejuvenation, REBIRTH. He did some dumb things. He's changed, moved past it, and learned from it. And we know so little about the Dawn Cataclysm. We have very few "facts" and a lot of myths. In my rendition, it WAS all Shar's fault, and the entire event is so vaguely defined that there's no reason to consider it wasn't in canon, too. (b) is actively planning another speaks more to his character than the mistake itself. Actively pursuing another.... What? We don't even know what he tried the first time, and all we know that he MAY be planning this time is a NAME.
ShadezofDis 03-17-07, 02:08 PM	I think, with Lathandar, you attribute such actions to well-meaning stupidity. And Since I'm sure many of us could out-plan most of these gods(as they have been represented in the literature), I'd say we do have the right to judge them :) Not that being judged idiots by mortals stops them from being gods :) And we know so little about the Dawn Cataclysm. We have very few "facts" and a lot of myths. In my rendition, it WAS all Shar's fault, and the entire event is so vaguely defined that there's no reason to consider it wasn't in canon, too. Actively pursuing another.... What? We don't even know what he tried the first time, and all we know that he MAY be planning this time is a NAME. Alright, first off, I COMPLETELY ignore the fact that the gods are portrayed as a bunch of bumbling idiots in the novels. As far as I am concerned there is no way to sustain a world where the gods can barely put thier pants or skirts on. That said, I very much take Dan's approach to the gods "bumbled" schemes. I see the gods as a balance, the reasons the gods don't interfere with mortals is because the other gods will take that as an opportunity to do any number of things while that gods attention is focused away from them. I also lump the outter planes in there because in my realms, my cosmology, whatever you want to call it, the outsiders maintain the same sort of balance the gods of FR do and a way to tip that balance is to draw a Prime into thier plane. That's a side point though. I absolutely agree that we know next to nothing about the Dawn Cataclysm and, in fact, it could have been what thwarted a Sharran plot but had horrid consequences, we got no clue. Further, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Landather see's a bad moon on the rise. We've got 3 brand spankin new greater gods on the block. They've been messin around like a 10 year old on a construction site, with access to all the power tools. I think that Landather, Selune, Chauntea, the Triad and basically any good god are all VERY concerned about what may happen in the next. . . few years even. Godhood is a VERY delicate balance and if Shar is going around eating other gods and we've got 3 VERY inexperienced greater gods just lookin to get ko'd then things are at a pretty desperate state. Or maybe that's just a pessimistic view. Anyhow, what Dan has said about Landather's portfolio, what Landather IS at the core, shows how valid it is that Landather wouldn't be inactive because of the Dawn Cataclysm and why it isn't really evil at all. I think I've really show how it's possible that many gods may feel that the very world could be at risk in the coming years.
Zsych 03-17-07, 11:02 PM	The gods in FR, with their mortal like thinking are defined that way by Ed. Perhaps its so they can be more reachable, more easy to understand... more easy to include in the plot if need be. Other worlds may not define gods that way. But this one does(in the lore anyway).... kinda like Roman and Greek gods.
GothicDan 03-17-07, 11:47 PM	The way the Gods were portrayed in the Avatar trilogy... No. That is NOT how Ed would have wanted them portrayed.
Old Sage 03-18-07, 12:49 AM	Indeed. The depiction of the gods in the "Avatar" novels is literary licence: it doesn't match the deities as conceived elsewhere in Realmslore and shouldn't be taken as definitive of them.
Zsych 03-18-07, 03:48 AM	How about Mystra in Elminster's stories. How about Mystra lusting after Elminster. How about Midnight getting memories and urges from Mystra's memories for Elminster? Mystra's avatar getting killed by unexpected magic.. Ed's own work? ... looks like they're super-humans to me. --- Which is why I go with the opinion that these gods are as people imagine them, and since people only have themselves to base gods off of when they worship, and since most people in FR aren't knowledgeable enough to imagine anything vastly superior to a human in every sense... the gods who feed on their power, become what the worshippers expect. Super powered humans.
GothicDan 03-18-07, 12:44 PM	How about Mystra in Elminster's stories. How about Mystra lusting after Elminster. How about Midnight getting memories and urges from Mystra's memories for Elminster? What about them? I see nothing wrong with those. Mystra's avatar getting killed by unexpected magic.. Ed's own work? To keep an idiotic story as written by Slade in the NEoM boxed set canon. Ed loves consistency in his Realms.
BrennonGoldeye 03-18-07, 02:54 PM	You put that very nicely Dan, kudos.;)
Zsych 03-19-07, 07:22 AM	Baah... even Ed describes them with completely human emotions, behaviors and thoughts. These are not ominscient beings, or the core forces of reality. Describing them as such would not have been hard if Ed wanted them that way. He didn't. Those emotions humans feel aren't great or superior things. They're animal things, born of the needs of animal survival. For even half-decent gods they'd have no meaning at all. -- As for Mystra being killed, since Ed uses it as an excuse for Mystra not sticking around with El so much, I don't think its just a random thing forced by necessity.. its something he considers a valid plot device. And in the days when Mystra is a slobbering loon turned goddess, I don't see why you feel there's any reason at all to think all that highly of these gods(even those that aren't ascended humans... Mystryl's suicide was an act of complete stupidity. To the best of her knowledge, she had forever destroyed magic, and doomed Toril with her death)
Stigger 03-19-07, 07:28 AM	Um... those emotions are what give purpose and meaning to life. Well, a good life anyway, as I would define it. As to Mystryl... it pretty much point blank said she sacrificed herself to save the weave last I looked. Kinda like a system reboot. If you don't like gods, fine, great, good on you, but if I might make a suggestion, I'd look for a setting that they weren't integral to if you want to avoid the silly things. ;)
Zsych 03-19-07, 04:33 PM	Ed says that she self-destructed with no backups and no expectation of the Weave somehow being reborn. He also says that without the Weave Toril will die. Looks like a bad decision to me. That as a side-effect of Karsus' spell, Mystryl's divinity remained mostly coherent and quite accidentally merged with a mortal to create Mystra, was good luck for Toril, but that has no relation with Mystryl's decision. --- As for my opinion on gods. Where I've said this before... I don't dislike the FR gods. I even like some of them... I just don't think that they are meant to be considered primal forces of nature, definable only by superlatives. They are human understandable super-beings. Scaled-up human(oid)s.... bearing many of the faults of humans, in being like humans. Humans can aspire to become gods, and when they do, they don't suddenly turn into an utterly alien creature completely divorced from its source. (Most proto-gods(demi-gods and such) apparently don't even immediately realize that an actual change has taken place) --- As for what constitutes a good meaningful life. I'm sure we have different opinions of such :) Emotions are just a low-end form of decision making(or rather of trying to keep humans(and the human race) alive by having them make decisions that are better for them, and the human species in general... sadly they are also simple things, and so don't always work well with our more complex lives).
Stigger 03-20-07, 12:53 AM	Yes, well, Magic of Faerun has a different take on the matter... so that's the one I tend to use, given that it's the only one I've ever seen in print. I can somewhat see your point about the gods, though I'd say that much of what we've seen was viewed through a 'human-palatable' lense and not necessarily a 'true' view of them... my own interpretation there. Though I'd wonder why you'd expect them to become utterly alien and divorced from their own worshippers... there'd be little point to them if they were since they'd have no way to relate to their own followers if they were... too much of a Judeo-Christian view of how they should be if that's what you're expecting out of them. Nor can I see why they wouldn't have faults... faults are ultimately what truly define us, particularly when we overcome them and succeed in spite of them. I don't see a reason a god would be any different... just a matter of scale. Why would a god have to become a primal force of nature? That just eludes me as a concept... As to emotions and meanings of life, probably safest just to agree to disagree and leave it at that. :)
ShadezofDis 03-20-07, 09:55 AM	The problem I have with the gods acting almost exactly like jumped up mortals is that I don't believe such a world is sustainable. I run the gods as master chess players who have all the time in the world to finish their game. They don't work on a day to day basis, they work on a century to century basis. They don't take a direct role in the world because that's a slippery slope down into a godswar and not even Shar or Cyric want that (yet). I run things this way because it feels like a much more sustainable world.
GothicDan 03-20-07, 07:22 PM	That is the way that, traditionally and theoretically, the Realms work - not taking into account the sort of sensationalistic novels that contain massive, divine RSE's that TSR and WoTC have ordered up.
Zsych 03-22-07, 06:44 AM	Are you sure that that's not the FR that Ed envisions? No doubt a DM can run the game as he chooses, but that doesn't mean that its official FR. ... as for the gods being master chess players. Being super-geniuses would divorce them considerably from their mortal sources. Not that I don't expect gods to be like that. That's exactly what I expect from gods, but still my interpretation of FR gods isn't that. I'm still sure I can outplan gods like Shar, and get things done in less than the countless millenia that have already passed. Just give me 1000 years with her powers :P
GothicDan 03-22-07, 07:25 AM	No body can be sure what is going on in another person's head. So far, however, we only have reality (including his words and explanations) to go on as evidence. And the major issue with the gods in Faerun is that they are ultimately ambigiuous in terms of power, scope, knowledge, and interaction (with each other and other elements of the cosmos); no one knows exactly what Shar's "powers" are, or her restrictions, or her plans.
ShadezofDis 03-22-07, 10:04 AM	Are you sure that that's not the FR that Ed envisions? No doubt a DM can run the game as he chooses, but that doesn't mean that its official FR. ... as for the gods being master chess players. Being super-geniuses would divorce them considerably from their mortal sources. Not that I don't expect gods to be like that. That's exactly what I expect from gods, but still my interpretation of FR gods isn't that. I'm still sure I can outplan gods like Shar, and get things done in less than the countless millenia that have already passed. Just give me 1000 years with her powers :P While I have mighty respect for Ed, if he makes the gods act in a way that I find to be unsustainable then I'll have to deviate from what he does (and I'm sure in 100 different little ways I do that already *g*). However, given that the ToT didn't happen in his own personal world, I'd say his gods don't act like jumped up mortals who've suffered major head trauma. The whole "master chess players" idea is based off the fact that they are gods, they have int and wis scores that far exceed any mortals (most mortals) they can exist and act in multiple places at the same time with almost no ill effects (I say almost because as their attentions divide they aren't as perceptive, however I don't buy how ignorant they could become of an avatar as presented in the series of that name), ect. The only places I see the gods acting like complete idiots are in the novels, the only suppliments that support this view that I've seen are the suppliments that support those novel's canon.
ShadezofDis 03-22-07, 10:06 AM	And the major issue with the gods in Faerun is that they are ultimately ambigiuous in terms of power, scope, knowledge, and interaction (with each other and other elements of the cosmos); no one knows exactly what Shar's "powers" are, or her restrictions, or her plans. Yep. I'd even take that further and say we shouldn't ever know the gods plans, what we should know is Shar's clergy's plans.
helicopter 03-22-07, 10:22 AM	Yep. I'd even take that further and say we shouldn't ever know the gods plans, what we should know is Shar's clergy's plans.Well, we have to know if the novels are going to sell at all. We as customers, should have overarching insight into everything applicable within the game world. Well ... I take that back, some things WotC wants to hold back on. For cliffhanger purposes and to keep us reeled in for more future products.
ShadezofDis 03-22-07, 11:42 AM	Well, we have to know if the novels are going to sell at all. That's the issue with publishing in general. We as customers, should have overarching insight into everything applicable within the game world. The plots portrayed are plots that I do not find sustainable. I would find these plots much more sustainable if the focus on the gods were removed and instead these plots were driven by their clergy. I, as a customer, desire a world that seems sustainable. As is, we don't have a clue what goes into godhood, thus we do not have overarching insight into everything applicable within the game world.
Zsych 03-26-07, 09:12 AM	The gods being stupid actually explains why they don't turn out better strategies and why the world isn't constantly being shaken up by one divine plan or the other, with massive underground wars running between the various clergies. --- Not knowing anything about what the gods are doing, would be good though. But clerical activities would point to what the god wants... and humans being as zealous as they can be... The clerics of the darker dieties might be causing a lot more trouble than they actually are. (not that any great evil in FR, actually causes serious trouble under normal circumstances.. even the human ones)
ShadezofDis 03-26-07, 09:33 AM	The gods being stupid actually explains why they don't turn out better strategies and why the world isn't constantly being shaken up by one divine plan or the other, with massive underground wars running between the various clergies. Better plans and strategies wouldn't really involve massive upheaval. The dieties (should) understand that they exist in a tentative balance and when you upset that balance you'd best have all you're t's crossed and i's dotted because a godswar is something that no one wants (except for some of the more powerful outsiders, but that's a whole different vien that isn't really part of this one *g*) In other words, the gods understand that a straight up battle is VERY chancy and they don't want to lose, thus they'll be a lot more methodical and patient.
Rasputen_Bel_Kuhr 03-30-07, 08:56 AM	Put simply I think that lathander is interesting and so are the heresies surrounding him Myrkul and Amaununator? But I think he (lathander) should be CG as some it makes more sense a a CG persons acts may cause results which are more easily viewed as evil probably due to impulsiveness and it not being fully thought through - kinda "KINDA" like Karsus's folly Also does Myrkul still hold dusk portfolio
The Ubbergeek 03-30-07, 12:03 PM	It's not that (most) gods are stupid... It's that they ARE their godhood. Like Lanthander is youth, dawn and all.... Good guy, but often naive and hasty, probabbly. And driven when he want.
BrennonGoldeye 03-30-07, 10:57 PM	Ubber, will you send Zsych a PM and explain it to him. Pleeeease.:help:
MrDawn 03-31-07, 10:29 PM	But I think he (lathander) should be CG as some it makes more sense a a CG persons acts may cause results which are more easily viewed as evil probably due to impulsiveness and it not being fully thought through - kinda "KINDA" like Karsus's folly Also does Myrkul still hold dusk portfolio In my view, Lathander is surely a NG Greater Power. His dedication to Good, and only to Good, cause some problems, like the Dawn Cataclysm or what is going to happen with his new plan. Lathander has no sense of limits, if these limits come to him in the shape of Laws, that can stop him and his impulses. He also have not that Chaotic inclination, that makes those who have it impulsive. I think that Lathander is a fool in his beliefs, but a patient fool. And finally, I do not think in his fall to a "Dark Side Of The Force". Maybe his new plan ends just like Dawn Cataclysm. Maybe not. I alaways thought that if the Dawn Cataclysm worked well, Ao himself would not allow any harm in his beloved Balance.