Which gods did the first elves worship? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Which gods did the first elves worship? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kiaransalee
02-13-08, 03:09 PM In A Grand History of the Realms, it is written that when the first elves migrated to Toril, they didn't worship the Seldarine. Who did they worship?
Lord Karsus
02-13-08, 04:13 PM -It is very likely the very first Elves, the Wood Elves who came to Realmspace circa -27,000, worshipped the Seelie Court. The Elves of Tintageer, who migrated later, did, however.
Markustay
02-13-08, 05:42 PM Me. :D

Seriously, I think that GHotR specifically mentioned something about them turning to indigenous gods after their arrival (the Yuir Totems?).

Don't have my books here, so I can't check that.

But yeah, what LK said about the Gray (Gold and Silver) Elves, as per Evermeet: Isle of Elves.
Lord Karsus
02-13-08, 07:38 PM Seriously, I think that GHotR specifically mentioned something about them turning to indigenous gods after their arrival (the Yuir Totems?).

-The Wood Elves who eventually found their way in the Yuirwood, and probably the Star Elves who found themselves in the same situation, took up worship the the indiginous Yuir pantheon, correct.
Old Sage
02-13-08, 09:13 PM There were 10 gods in the Yuir pantheon, 5 of which were unnamed. In addition to the Simbul [this was an ancient god of the Yuir pantheon worshipped by humans that once resided in the Yuir {the Simbul herself takes her name from this particular deity}] we know of Magnar the Bear, Relkath of the Infinite Branches [sounds from the name like he could be an aspect of Emmantiensien] merged with Rilifane Ralathil, Elekarashae, and Zandilar the Dancer who merged with Bast to become Sharess. There really isn't anything more specific about these particular deities.
Lord Karsus
02-13-08, 10:49 PM -Information about the Yuir deities, as well as other members of the Seldarine, can be found in Elves of Faerūn.
Kiaransalee
02-14-08, 01:50 AM Where can I find Elves of Faerūn?
Lord Karsus
02-14-08, 07:28 AM Where can I find Elves of Faerūn?

:twitch:

-There is a link to it in my signature.
Alediran
02-14-08, 07:48 AM Which links to http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com. You need to register in the boards to see the Elven Netbook section.
Lord Karsus
02-14-08, 07:52 AM You need to register in the boards to see the Elven Netbook section.

-Really? I didn't know that...Well, oh well, what's done is done.
Alediran
02-14-08, 07:53 AM -Really? I didn't know that...Well, oh well, what's done is done.

The idea is to attract people so they stay :). I really want to create a good comunity there.
TheLemming
02-14-08, 08:03 AM :twitch:

-There is a link to it in my signature.

*ahem* but there is no signature to your postings at the moment.
:rolleyes:
Lord Karsus
02-14-08, 08:24 AM *ahem* but there is no signature to your postings at the moment.
:rolleyes:

-One's signature only appears in their first post on the page...*ahem* :rolleyes:
ripvanwormer
06-25-08, 11:23 PM Vanathor, the Golden Harpist, is Bahamut's advisor and bard, appearing as a gold dragon with a swirl of rainbow colors on his breast. The master of all things musical, Vanathor dwells with the Platinum Dragon in his palace. He is on good terms with all the gods of music, especially Corellon Larethian. He sometimes appears as a handsome half-elven bard. Some myths say he was actually a dead god from an ancient pantheon, given new life by Bahamut's magic.
--From "Spawn of Tiamat, Children of Bahamut" by Keith Francis Stohm in Dragon #260.

It seems possible that Vanathor was once a member of the Yuir pantheon.
MerrikCale
06-25-08, 11:25 PM Where can I find Elves of Faerūn?

the what?
ripvanwormer
06-25-08, 11:37 PM the what?

This. (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D732165)
Nymrohd
06-26-08, 08:49 AM Also take notice that the Lythari, pretty much the only well-known subrace that still retains its connection to Faerie, worshipped the Seelie Court as well.
XHereticX
06-26-08, 06:52 PM Take note that some of them could have worshipped the Unseelie Court as well.;)
Lord Karsus
06-26-08, 06:54 PM Vanathor, the Golden Harpist, is Bahamut's advisor and bard, appearing as a gold dragon with a swirl of rainbow colors on his breast. The master of all things musical, Vanathor dwells with the Platinum Dragon in his palace. He is on good terms with all the gods of music, especially Corellon Larethian. He sometimes appears as a handsome half-elven bard. Some myths say he was actually a dead god from an ancient pantheon, given new life by Bahamut's magic.
--From "Spawn of Tiamat, Children of Bahamut" by Keith Francis Stohm in Dragon #260.

It seems possible that Vanathor was once a member of the Yuir pantheon.

-Interesting. Personally speaking, I am all for the "Lost" members of the Yuir pantheon being "discovered". Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir.

the what?

-See, you are getting yourself in trouble now. :P
XHereticX
06-26-08, 06:56 PM -Interesting. Personally speaking, I am all for the "Lost" members of the Yuir pantheon being "discovered". Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir.

Wait, then which deities did the Star Elves originally worship?
Lord Karsus
06-26-08, 06:58 PM Wait, then which deities did the Star Elves originally worship?

-First, we'd need to know more about their origins. They write-up says that they all have the strongest affinity to Corellon Larethian.

-Note that the Star Elves aren't the Elves in question. They came to the Yuir later. The Yuir was already inhabited by "Green Elves", the ones I call Wood Elves.
Green Elven Vampire
06-26-08, 07:01 PM Does it truly matter anymore? 4ED retconned the crap out of the Realms!
XHereticX
06-26-08, 07:02 PM -Note that the Star Elves aren't the Elves in question. They came to the Yuir later. The Yuir was already inhabited by "Green Elves", the ones I call Wood Elves.

Ahh, you are speaking of the elves in the Yuir forest. I though you meant the star elves that retreated to Sildeyuir.
Lord Karsus
06-26-08, 07:04 PM Ahh, you are speaking of the elves in the Yuir forest. I though you meant the star elves that retreated to Sildeyuir.

-Nope. More about the Star Elves that I can possibly type right now, as well as the Sildeyuir, where the 'u' gets those two dots on top (:)) can be found in Elves of Faerūn, if any of those "burning" questions remain. :cool:

-As of right now, there isn't an article on the Yuir itself, but that is certainly something that will eventually be included.
ripvanwormer
06-27-08, 12:35 AM Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir.

That would fit with him appearing as a half-elf, I think.
Alkasyn
06-27-08, 03:41 AM What about Borem the mud guy, who Bane and his troupe killed on their quest to godhood? Could he have been one of those Yuir dieties?
Suin Bahhar
06-27-08, 11:35 AM In ancient times on other primes green or wood elves tended to worship of ancestral animal spirits (like the Sioux: bear, wolf, coyote) next to the Unseelie and Seelie gods. As a mix of animal and feyspirits The Yuir gods resembled those spirits closely so their adaptation is quite logical.
MerrikCale
06-27-08, 12:00 PM Does it truly matter anymore? 4ED retconned the crap out of the Realms!

for some reason, I sense you are not a big fan of the 4th edition
Lord Karsus
06-27-08, 12:46 PM That would fit with him appearing as a half-elf, I think.

-Meaning that the indigenous Humans worshiped the deities, and then later on, when the Elves arrived in the area, they "resurrected" the worship of these deities. I don't have my books in front of me (I'll try to get the definitive answer by sometime later today), but I believe that the indigenous Humans were gone when the Elves arrived. If this was the case, I don't see why they would see one (or all) of these deities as Half-Elves. If the two groups coexisted, then that'd make a lot more sense. All in all, for the most sense, it depends on what Demihuman Deities says.

What about Borem the mud guy, who Bane and his troupe killed on their quest to godhood? Could he have been one of those Yuir dieties?

-I don't believe so, no.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
06-27-08, 01:40 PM for some reason, I sense you are not a big fan of the 4th edition

I'm even getting the idea that he doesn't like the 4E Realms!
Lord Karsus
06-27-08, 01:57 PM -That, I cannot believe.
MerrikCale
06-28-08, 01:54 PM I'm even getting the idea that he doesn't like the 4E Realms!

blasphemy
ripvanwormer
06-29-08, 06:15 PM -Meaning that the indigenous Humans worshiped the deities, and then later on, when the Elves arrived in the area, they "resurrected" the worship of these deities. I don't have my books in front of me (I'll try to get the definitive answer by sometime later today), but I believe that the indigenous Humans were gone when the Elves arrived. If this was the case, I don't see why they would see one (or all) of these deities as Half-Elves.

I was thinking that the "true" appearance of the deities (how they appeared at rest or while meeting with their proxies and other gods in the Outer Planes) might have evolved slowly as they accepted new worshippers, but the depictions of the god by the races in question would probably have been as whatever the depictors looked like. Well, except for those gods who were big trees or bears.
Lord Karsus
06-29-08, 09:25 PM I was thinking that the "true" appearance of the deities (how they appeared at rest or while meeting with their proxies and other gods in the Outer Planes) might have evolved slowly as they accepted new worshippers, but the depictions of the god by the races in question would probably have been as whatever the depictors looked like. Well, except for those gods who were big trees or bears.

-Me, personally, I favor the other "approach"- that there is an objective, definitive appearance of the deity. That doesn't negate your hypothesis, however. It's a good one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kiaransalee 02-13-08, 03:09 PM	In A Grand History of the Realms, it is written that when the first elves migrated to Toril, they didn't worship the Seldarine. Who did they worship?
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 04:13 PM	-It is very likely the very first Elves, the Wood Elves who came to Realmspace circa -27,000, worshipped the Seelie Court. The Elves of Tintageer, who migrated later, did, however.
Markustay 02-13-08, 05:42 PM	Me. :D Seriously, I think that GHotR specifically mentioned something about them turning to indigenous gods after their arrival (the Yuir Totems?). Don't have my books here, so I can't check that. But yeah, what LK said about the Gray (Gold and Silver) Elves, as per Evermeet: Isle of Elves.
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 07:38 PM	Seriously, I think that GHotR specifically mentioned something about them turning to indigenous gods after their arrival (the Yuir Totems?). -The Wood Elves who eventually found their way in the Yuirwood, and probably the Star Elves who found themselves in the same situation, took up worship the the indiginous Yuir pantheon, correct.
Old Sage 02-13-08, 09:13 PM	There were 10 gods in the Yuir pantheon, 5 of which were unnamed. In addition to the Simbul [this was an ancient god of the Yuir pantheon worshipped by humans that once resided in the Yuir {the Simbul herself takes her name from this particular deity}] we know of Magnar the Bear, Relkath of the Infinite Branches [sounds from the name like he could be an aspect of Emmantiensien] merged with Rilifane Ralathil, Elekarashae, and Zandilar the Dancer who merged with Bast to become Sharess. There really isn't anything more specific about these particular deities.
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 10:49 PM	-Information about the Yuir deities, as well as other members of the Seldarine, can be found in Elves of Faerūn.
Kiaransalee 02-14-08, 01:50 AM	Where can I find Elves of Faerūn?
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 07:28 AM	Where can I find Elves of Faerūn? :twitch: -There is a link to it in my signature.
Alediran 02-14-08, 07:48 AM	Which links to http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com. You need to register in the boards to see the Elven Netbook section.
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 07:52 AM	You need to register in the boards to see the Elven Netbook section. -Really? I didn't know that...Well, oh well, what's done is done.
Alediran 02-14-08, 07:53 AM	-Really? I didn't know that...Well, oh well, what's done is done. The idea is to attract people so they stay :). I really want to create a good comunity there.
TheLemming 02-14-08, 08:03 AM	:twitch: -There is a link to it in my signature. ahem but there is no signature to your postings at the moment. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 08:24 AM	ahem but there is no signature to your postings at the moment. :rolleyes: -One's signature only appears in their first post on the page...ahem :rolleyes:
ripvanwormer 06-25-08, 11:23 PM	Vanathor, the Golden Harpist, is Bahamut's advisor and bard, appearing as a gold dragon with a swirl of rainbow colors on his breast. The master of all things musical, Vanathor dwells with the Platinum Dragon in his palace. He is on good terms with all the gods of music, especially Corellon Larethian. He sometimes appears as a handsome half-elven bard. Some myths say he was actually a dead god from an ancient pantheon, given new life by Bahamut's magic. --From "Spawn of Tiamat, Children of Bahamut" by Keith Francis Stohm in Dragon #260. It seems possible that Vanathor was once a member of the Yuir pantheon.
MerrikCale 06-25-08, 11:25 PM	Where can I find Elves of Faerūn? the what?
ripvanwormer 06-25-08, 11:37 PM	the what? This. (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D732165)
Nymrohd 06-26-08, 08:49 AM	Also take notice that the Lythari, pretty much the only well-known subrace that still retains its connection to Faerie, worshipped the Seelie Court as well.
XHereticX 06-26-08, 06:52 PM	Take note that some of them could have worshipped the Unseelie Court as well.;)
Lord Karsus 06-26-08, 06:54 PM	Vanathor, the Golden Harpist, is Bahamut's advisor and bard, appearing as a gold dragon with a swirl of rainbow colors on his breast. The master of all things musical, Vanathor dwells with the Platinum Dragon in his palace. He is on good terms with all the gods of music, especially Corellon Larethian. He sometimes appears as a handsome half-elven bard. Some myths say he was actually a dead god from an ancient pantheon, given new life by Bahamut's magic. --From "Spawn of Tiamat, Children of Bahamut" by Keith Francis Stohm in Dragon #260. It seems possible that Vanathor was once a member of the Yuir pantheon. -Interesting. Personally speaking, I am all for the "Lost" members of the Yuir pantheon being "discovered". Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir. the what? -See, you are getting yourself in trouble now. :P
XHereticX 06-26-08, 06:56 PM	-Interesting. Personally speaking, I am all for the "Lost" members of the Yuir pantheon being "discovered". Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir. Wait, then which deities did the Star Elves originally worship?
Lord Karsus 06-26-08, 06:58 PM	Wait, then which deities did the Star Elves originally worship? -First, we'd need to know more about their origins. They write-up says that they all have the strongest affinity to Corellon Larethian. -Note that the Star Elves aren't the Elves in question. They came to the Yuir later. The Yuir was already inhabited by "Green Elves", the ones I call Wood Elves.
Green Elven Vampire 06-26-08, 07:01 PM	Does it truly matter anymore? 4ED retconned the crap out of the Realms!
XHereticX 06-26-08, 07:02 PM	-Note that the Star Elves aren't the Elves in question. They came to the Yuir later. The Yuir was already inhabited by "Green Elves", the ones I call Wood Elves. Ahh, you are speaking of the elves in the Yuir forest. I though you meant the star elves that retreated to Sildeyuir.
Lord Karsus 06-26-08, 07:04 PM	Ahh, you are speaking of the elves in the Yuir forest. I though you meant the star elves that retreated to Sildeyuir. -Nope. More about the Star Elves that I can possibly type right now, as well as the Sildeyuir, where the 'u' gets those two dots on top (:)) can be found in Elves of Faerūn, if any of those "burning" questions remain. :cool: -As of right now, there isn't an article on the Yuir itself, but that is certainly something that will eventually be included.
ripvanwormer 06-27-08, 12:35 AM	Note, though, that the Yuir deities were originally worshiped by the indiginous Humans, and then by the Elves who came to the Yuir. That would fit with him appearing as a half-elf, I think.
Alkasyn 06-27-08, 03:41 AM	What about Borem the mud guy, who Bane and his troupe killed on their quest to godhood? Could he have been one of those Yuir dieties?
Suin Bahhar 06-27-08, 11:35 AM	In ancient times on other primes green or wood elves tended to worship of ancestral animal spirits (like the Sioux: bear, wolf, coyote) next to the Unseelie and Seelie gods. As a mix of animal and feyspirits The Yuir gods resembled those spirits closely so their adaptation is quite logical.
MerrikCale 06-27-08, 12:00 PM	Does it truly matter anymore? 4ED retconned the crap out of the Realms! for some reason, I sense you are not a big fan of the 4th edition
Lord Karsus 06-27-08, 12:46 PM	That would fit with him appearing as a half-elf, I think. -Meaning that the indigenous Humans worshiped the deities, and then later on, when the Elves arrived in the area, they "resurrected" the worship of these deities. I don't have my books in front of me (I'll try to get the definitive answer by sometime later today), but I believe that the indigenous Humans were gone when the Elves arrived. If this was the case, I don't see why they would see one (or all) of these deities as Half-Elves. If the two groups coexisted, then that'd make a lot more sense. All in all, for the most sense, it depends on what Demihuman Deities says. What about Borem the mud guy, who Bane and his troupe killed on their quest to godhood? Could he have been one of those Yuir dieties? -I don't believe so, no.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 06-27-08, 01:40 PM	for some reason, I sense you are not a big fan of the 4th edition I'm even getting the idea that he doesn't like the 4E Realms!
Lord Karsus 06-27-08, 01:57 PM	-That, I cannot believe.
MerrikCale 06-28-08, 01:54 PM	I'm even getting the idea that he doesn't like the 4E Realms! blasphemy
ripvanwormer 06-29-08, 06:15 PM	-Meaning that the indigenous Humans worshiped the deities, and then later on, when the Elves arrived in the area, they "resurrected" the worship of these deities. I don't have my books in front of me (I'll try to get the definitive answer by sometime later today), but I believe that the indigenous Humans were gone when the Elves arrived. If this was the case, I don't see why they would see one (or all) of these deities as Half-Elves. I was thinking that the "true" appearance of the deities (how they appeared at rest or while meeting with their proxies and other gods in the Outer Planes) might have evolved slowly as they accepted new worshippers, but the depictions of the god by the races in question would probably have been as whatever the depictors looked like. Well, except for those gods who were big trees or bears.
Lord Karsus 06-29-08, 09:25 PM	I was thinking that the "true" appearance of the deities (how they appeared at rest or while meeting with their proxies and other gods in the Outer Planes) might have evolved slowly as they accepted new worshippers, but the depictions of the god by the races in question would probably have been as whatever the depictors looked like. Well, except for those gods who were big trees or bears. -Me, personally, I favor the other "approach"- that there is an objective, definitive appearance of the deity. That doesn't negate your hypothesis, however. It's a good one.