Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gift_of_Fury 06-01-07, 10:45 PM	Who do you think holds the title as the most powerful evil Wizard? Would it be Lord Manshoon of Zhentil Keep? Or The Red Wizard of Necromancy (Szass Tam?) or another perhaps?
XHereticX 06-01-07, 10:49 PM	Larloch.
GothicDan 06-01-07, 10:51 PM	I'd say the following are all possibilities: Larloch, Aumvor, Lord Telamont Tanthul, Rhangaun, Shoon, Ythazz Bvar. I think, 'officially,' Shoon is the highest (in terms of caster level) evil wizard in canon. Ythazz Bvar has never been officially statted, officially, but he's a Demilich former Zulkir of Thay, which in my opinion would make him more powerful than Szass Tam. I tend to envision Larloch's power level as described roughly by Ed Greenwood, which thematically paints him higher than portrayed in canon. I'd make it go: Larloch, Shoon, Lord Telamont Tanthul, Ythazz Bvar, Rhangaun, Aumvor. Respectively... Lich (Or 'Ultra-Lich' with powers far exceeding those of your standard MM Lich), Demilich, Shade, Demilich, Lich, Lich.
MaskedOne 06-01-07, 10:52 PM	Larloch, Shoon, the demi-lich that preceded Szass as Zulkir of Necromancy or any other demi-lich you care to name. Provided that we're talking purely about personal ability not influence through an army of pawns. Szass and Manshoon are formidable but they aren't in the same weight class as a decent strength demi-lich and Larloch is a little unique.
XHereticX 06-01-07, 10:54 PM	Well if we go by Ed's Larloch, then a lv 46 Ultralich would pwn anything else. Ironically, he is afraid of silver fire. If canon Larloch, then I'd have to say shoon.
GothicDan 06-01-07, 11:02 PM	Let's correct this before anyone starts to go on and on about it: he said "around" 46th level. Which, despite what many people say, could also mean theoretically higher. Thus using 46th level for an average is entirely safe given the word choice. If Ed had not wanted him to be higher than 46th level, I would assume he would have said "no higher than 46th level." Considering that even during Ed's run of the Realms under TSR, there were insanely-leveled characters stated, when HE says "Just don't go there"? I think that's quite enough reason for me to believe that Larloch is as good as he says he is.
XHereticX 06-01-07, 11:12 PM	Let's correct this before anyone starts to go on and on about it: he said "around" 46th level. Which, despite what many people say, could also mean theoretically higher. Thus using 46th level for an average is entirely safe given the word choice. If Ed had not wanted him to be higher than 46th level, I would assume he would have said "no higher than 46th level." Considering that even during Ed's run of the Realms under TSR, there were insanely-leveled characters stated, when HE says "Just don't go there"? I think that's quite enough reason for me to believe that Larloch is as good as he says he is. Of course dan, I always hold Greenwood's word above wizards' canonitically. Not doing so would be like saying that TOR fanatsy is more accurate on LoTR than Tolkien.
Old Sage 06-01-07, 11:17 PM	GD has the right of it. Another important point about Larloch that many of you should note is that -- he's meant more to be a legend than anything else; so the fewer hard facts about him, his power, and his 'plots'... the better.
XHereticX 06-01-07, 11:21 PM	GD has the right of it. Another important point about Larloch that many of you should note is that -- he's meant more to be a legend than anything else; so the fewer hard facts about him, his power, and his 'plots'... the better. He is just a poor lich who just wants to be left alone with his dust bunnies and spellbooks. Most of the problems he causes are not by him but by the stupidity of his servant liches anyway. He often dosen't seem very evil.
MaskedOne 06-01-07, 11:31 PM	He enslaved a LG archwizard for use as a personal scribe. Larloch may not be particularly malevolent but he ain't particularly moral.
GothicDan 06-01-07, 11:45 PM	Amoral in a NE way, I think. ;)
MerrikCale 06-01-07, 11:54 PM	Who do you think holds the title as the most powerful evil Wizard? either GothicDan or LordKarsus
GothicDan 06-02-07, 12:02 AM	Tyvm!
MaskedOne 06-02-07, 12:09 AM	either GothicDan or LordKarsus Neither, GD wields High Magic with Corellon's support and if either of the known aspects of Karsus were truly evil than I'd have been forced into more direct conflict by now and the results would be messy.
GothicDan 06-02-07, 12:10 AM	But I can still be severe when times call for it. *Stern Sun Elf Look at Merrik.*
Karsus the Mad 06-02-07, 01:47 AM	Who do you think holds the title as the most powerful evil Wizard? Would it be Lord Manshoon of Zhentil Keep? Or The Red Wizard of Necromancy (Szass Tam?) or another perhaps? Going by published material, and purely on level. Top four goes Shoon (demi-lich Necromancer 31/ Archmage 5), Telemont Tanthul (Wizard 20/ Shadow Adept 10/ Archmage 5), Larloch (Wizard 20/ Epic 12, but I think he'd update as Wizard 27/ Netherese arcanist 5), Aumvor (Necromancer 22/ Archmage 5/ Netherese arcanist 5, despite not actually meeting the prerequisites for NA). For "power" in the subjective meaning (which is IMO), I'd go Larloch, Shoon, Telemont, Aumvor. Such titles tho' are subjective. Ask me the same question again in few months and I'll prolly have changed my mind as one or more ascend higher, descend lower, have fall backs or boons, and so forth.
GothicDan 06-02-07, 02:02 AM	So "official" levels at 36, 35, 32, and 32. Rhangaun is also 33rd level, if I remember correctly. And people complain that the Chosen of Mystra are too powerful. Oi.
Dioxin 06-02-07, 04:37 AM	So "official" levels at 36, 35, 32, and 32. Rhangaun is also 33rd level, if I remember correctly. And people complain that the Chosen of Mystra are too powerful. Oi. You don't see those people running about constantly and personally intervening to hold their evil empires together. Too powerful or not, at least they have much better human resources management skills than the chosen.
Tyberian 06-02-07, 11:47 AM	No one mentions Ioualom? Sorry if I misspelled it. I'm working off vague memory from other quotes, but isn't he something like a 41st level caster with maybe another 15 h.d. from being an undead elder brain or something like that? That's a lot of epic level feats not to mention that he could have another 15 or so ranks in spellcraft and braking 65 rks in skills would also increase your synergy bonuses. (An additional +2 for every 20 ranks above 5.) That is some serious epic spellcasating capability not to mention the number (6 or more per day.) Of course, my 3rd hand information on his stats may be wrong... Is he is Champions of Ruin?
GothicDan 06-02-07, 11:47 AM	Ioulaum is LN.
GothicDan 06-02-07, 11:49 AM	You don't see those people running about constantly and personally intervening to hold their evil empires together. Too powerful or not, at least they have much better human resources management skills than the chosen. You don't see them doing it OPENLY, because if they did, in of the Good people and the area, and probably a lot of the Neutral, would gang up and oppose them. They're EVIL because they treat other people 'poorly,' and no one WANTS to be treated that way, whether you're Good or Neutral. If people prefer monolithic evil overlords - which are, by the way, largely completely illogical - they should probably switch to Middle-Earth or Dragonlance. Faerun has a far more complex, variable, and clandestine political dynamic.
Tyberian 06-02-07, 12:04 PM	Ioulaum is LN. Looks like I found out why no one mentioned him then. But didn't he extend his life for a long time by using spells which drained a victim's life essence? How could he cast all those spells and remain non-evil, when to the best of my knowledge, all such spells have an evil descriptor attached to them? Or perhaps is he not evil because he is considered completely insane and that the order of law is one of the manifestations of his insanity? Also, where can I find his stats?
GothicDan 06-02-07, 12:07 PM	He has no official stats beyond just a general line of level and class. And in previous editions, there was no such thing as an 'evil descriptor,' when both the original spell and his alignment were given. "Evil" and "Good" weren't so clean-cut.
Tyberian 06-02-07, 12:11 PM	[QUOTE=GothicDan;12582818]He has no official stats beyond just a general line of level and class. I appreciate the info. Now I won't have to scour bookstores today looking for it as I am often forced to do by my bullheaded mentality.
Karsus the Mad 06-02-07, 03:33 PM	Looks like I found out why no one mentioned him then. But didn't he extend his life for a long time by using spells which drained a victim's life essence? How could he cast all those spells and remain non-evil, when to the best of my knowledge, all such spells have an evil descriptor attached to them? Or perhaps is he not evil because he is considered completely insane and that the order of law is one of the manifestations of his insanity? Also, where can I find his stats? The spell itself isn't evil. Whether a person uses it for evil purposes is something else entirely. Magic missle isn't evil, despite only being used to cause 1d4+1 damage per missle to a target;) Ioulaums 2e ability scores are listed in Netheril: Empire of Magic as Str 14, Dex 15 Con 16, Int 21 Wis 18 Cha 16. However, pretty much all of them are incorrect when considering his new form, level bonuses, age bonuses, inherent bonuses, and any likely item. Rather staggering Intelligence actually. Rhangaun is also 33rd level, if I remember correctly. I thought he was 31st level...hmmmm...well, if he's 33rd, then I change my answer to place him right after Telemont Tanthul in the official by level category. Not sure where to place in my own ranking, since I lack much information on the chap. Edit: I'm dumb...can't even remember Ol' Shadow....
Drew1369r 06-02-07, 04:30 PM	Lord Shadow would be my vote
Dioxin 06-02-07, 11:38 PM	If people prefer monolithic evil overlords - which are, by the way, largely completely illogical - they should probably switch to Middle-Earth or Dragonlance. Faerun has a far more complex, variable, and clandestine political dynamic. Here, let me bold my comment for you. You don't see those people running about constantly and personally intervening to hold their evil empires together. Too powerful or not, at least they have much better human resources management skills than the chosen. Faerun has a far more complex, variable, and clandestine political dynamic That the chosen and other true power players on the side of good more often than not totally ignore in favor of personally wielding their own level 35 hammers of plot solution.
GothicDan 06-02-07, 11:41 PM	None of the Chosen are level 35. The highest is the Simbul, who is level 33. Other than that - as I said, I think their personal human resource management skills are just as good. You don't HAVE to be as clandestine when people WANT to help you and like you in the open (such as the people of Aglarond and th Simbul, and the people of the Silver Marches and Alustriel, etc.)
Dioxin 06-03-07, 12:42 AM	None of the Chosen are level 35. The highest is the Simbul, who is level 33. I'm sorry, I meant level 33 plus Mystra's Trademeet only, no interest down, Chosen special. Other than that - as I said, I think their personal human resource management skills are just as good. You don't HAVE to be as clandestine when people WANT to help you and like you in the open (such as the people of Aglarond and th Simbul, and the people of the Silver Marches and Alustriel, etc.) It's a good thing then that the trend also holds for the people of Sembia, Tethyr, The Sword Coast, Halruaa, Chessenta, Unther, Thay, and Zentil Keep. Well, maybe that's being too harsh. I guess I'll just have to settle for the smaller mercy that Mystra's favorites at least don't repeatedly and personally take to the field in any of those places to hold their own plots together.
Lord Karsus 06-03-07, 12:49 AM	either GothicDan or LordKarsus Neither, GD wields High Magic with Corellon's support and if either of the known aspects of Karsus were truly evil than I'd have been forced into more direct conflict by now and the results would be messy. -See, I/We're a nice guy. -Anyway, my vote goes to Sememmon.
Karsus the Mad 06-03-07, 03:18 AM	None of the Chosen are level 35. The highest is the Simbul, who is level 33. Elminster is 35th level (fighter 1/ rogue 2/ cleric 3/ wizard 24/ archmage 5).
The_Shaman 06-03-07, 05:50 AM	Larloch.
XHereticX 06-03-07, 07:58 AM	So "official" levels at 36, 35, 32, and 32. Rhangaun is also 33rd level, if I remember correctly. And people complain that the Chosen of Mystra are too powerful. Oi. Actually I just checked in LEOF, he is lv 27. Oh, and el only has 29 wizards caster levels, and the simbul only has 20 sorcerer caster levels and 10 wizard caster levels, so they really aren't that capable compared to guys like Larloch and Shoon. The novels only depict them like that because it was what Ed had intended for them. Personally, I would blame wizards for making bad stats for them rather than ED for uberfying them.
Karsus the Mad 06-03-07, 09:53 AM	Actually I just checked in LEOF, he is lv 27. GD isn't talking about Larloch's scribe:) Rhangaun of the Twisted Rune is who GD is talking about. I just checked his LoD entry, and he's a wizard 20/ archmage 5/ epic 8, so 33rd level. I confused him with the other twisted rune guy in the entry above, who is a wizard 20/ archmage 5/ epic 6.
Boda 06-05-07, 08:57 AM	Maybe it's just me, but isnt Larloch supose to be the poster child for all liches? So shouldnt he be the top dog of the undead spellcasters? Besides Shoon's younger and a little elf girl now. Has for the brain lich(iolaum), he a class all by himself. Telamont also the top dog in the shade department. If it's just spellcasting power your talking about, then these guys are the likely candidates, but if it's overall power, remember there are phaerimm, sarukh liches, dragons(and dracoliches) and other nasties around to.
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 09:02 AM	If it's just spellcasting power your talking about, then these guys are the likely candidates, but if it's overall power, remember there are phaerimm, sarukh liches, dragons(and dracoliches) and other nasties around to. -Such creatures don't wield the political power, mind you, as your Larlochs, your Szass Tams, your Sememmons...
GothicDan 06-05-07, 12:34 PM	GD isn't talking about Larloch's scribe Rhangaun of the Twisted Rune is who GD is talking about. I just checked his LoD entry, and he's a wizard 20/ archmage 5/ epic 8, so 33rd level. I confused him with the other twisted rune guy in the entry above, who is a wizard 20/ archmage 5/ epic 6. Thank you Mr. the Mad. As to El - sorry, I was really only comparing spellcaster level. At levels that high, all of his levels (other than possibly Cleric) are pretty negligible. GO ARCANE CASTERS!
Boda 06-05-07, 12:45 PM	-Such creatures don't wield the political power, mind you, as your Larlochs, your Szass Tams, your Sememmons... Tam ok. But Larloch and Sememnon? A reclusive lich and former zhentarim? A few dracoliches control the Cult, a few phaerimm ootul, and sarrukh can control scaly dudes right? Besides, there are gold dragons(influence other golds), Shadow dragon-drow, the Sshinree and Amruil, the illitidliches of Ch'chtil and it's really weird how the imaskar leftovers are handeled( halaster and the deep imaskar crowd).
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 02:05 PM	Tam ok. But Larloch and Sememnon? A reclusive lich and former zhentarim? A few dracoliches control the Cult, a few phaerimm ootul, and sarrukh can control scaly dudes right? -Sure, Larloch wields political power. He gives a call to his ol' pal, ol' buddy Szass Tam and says, "Listen, I want change in Thay. If not..." Tam, not wanting to upset an "ally" such as Larloch obliges. Situations like that. Sememmon used to wield plenty of political power, with the Zhents and all. Now, who knows what he's up to. We still has powerful allies, that's for sure, though. The differences between them and those other examples (Phaerimm, Sarrukh, Dracoliches) is that Larloch, Szass Tam and Sememmon don't actually control (as in physically and mentally) those they boss around...Not always. ;)
Boda 06-05-07, 02:21 PM	I was mostly thinking of phisical power(like in the case of daurgototh), but ok. And Sharns are what? Sorcerors? Maybe you know this one: if shoon's a 35th level spellcaster and he faced sharpfangs ( 3 times i think), shouldnt he have won(since she's a cr 28)?
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 02:26 PM	And Sharns are what? Sorcerors? -The typical Sharn casts spells as a 7th level Socerer, and a 5th level Cleric, as per Monsterous Compendium: Monsters of Faerūn.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 03:01 PM	-Such creatures don't wield the political power, mind you, as your Larlochs, your Szass Tams, your Sememmons... Thats why I say Lord Shadow/Telemont has to be the most powerful... look at his city :)
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 03:15 PM	-A city that's falling apart around him, sure.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 04:01 PM	What book is that in... I havn't read anything to say otherwise?
Karsus the Mad 06-05-07, 04:27 PM	What book is that in... I havn't read anything to say otherwise? At the end of the 3rd book. After the mythallar is damaged, the blue draco-lich is approaching Shade. The illusions that kept the city shrouded are gone and he sees nothing but ramshackled houses, half ruined villa's, and Telemont's Palace is nothing but an empty yard surrounded by cracked and broken pillars.
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 05:29 PM	-That boy could never take good care of his things, I swear. -Yep, nice place to live. Plus, they've got all those Shadow Goblin..."things" running around. Krinth.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 05:56 PM	Interesting to say the least... I've never read the return of the arch-wizard books... I'm gonna have too know!
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 06:03 PM	-Eeeahhmm... -Don't expect too much.
Drew1369r 06-05-07, 08:17 PM	Well I've always had an unhealthy fascination with the netherese and their timeframe... specifically with Karsus himself... I've been hunting everywhere to get the full list of material components for his steal divinity spell :) Or just that it has to be made up not including the Gold dragon gizzard diped in tarrasque blood >:) But thats just me... thats why I can't wait for the Grand history book to come out... I WANT MORE NETHERIL LORE!!!!!!!!!! They were truly the best wizards... and if alive now they would still be the dominating force in Faerun!!!
GothicDan 06-05-07, 11:47 PM	I don't know if there will be too much more on Netheril in that tome. I think that the Netheril boxed set already pretty much spoiled what could have otherwise been an interesting culture.
Old Sage 06-06-07, 12:25 AM	According to Brian's little "GHotR" leak yesterday, we can expect - "Updated lore on Netheril, their enslavement of gnomes and the fate of General Matick."
Dark Wizard 06-06-07, 12:26 AM	Slap yourself with chill touch when the Chosen heat gets too much. Remember only DMs and Players can prevent silver fires.
GothicDan 06-06-07, 12:27 AM	Hm. Let's hope they can redeem Netheril a little more. ;)
MaskedOne 06-06-07, 12:52 AM	Well I've always had an unhealthy fascination with the netherese and their timeframe... specifically with Karsus himself... I've been hunting everywhere to get the full list of material components for his steal divinity spell :) Or just that it has to be made up not including the Gold dragon gizzard diped in tarrasque blood >:) But thats just me... thats why I can't wait for the Grand history book to come out... I WANT MORE NETHERIL LORE!!!!!!!!!! They were truly the best wizards... and if alive now they would still be the dominating force in Faerun!!! These things vary but if Karsus did what I expect than the spell didn't have many components and was a relatively swift cast. 6 hour casting time is bad for business on any live, free target and in Mystril's case she would have shunted her power to me and I'd have knocked the enclave out of the sky if the spell was more than about 15 words long. The real questions are 1) What type of ritual did he use that the influx of divine power wouldn't result in auto-immolation? Theft is easy, surviving it a bit trickier. An unprepared mage goes up in flames for pulling in divine power of such magnitude. 2) How did he get past Mystril's protections? Unlike most powers, she had defenses against just such an assault. Note: This post has little relation to printed or likely to be printed lore and should not be considered canon.
Old Sage 06-06-07, 02:12 AM	Hm. Let's hope they can redeem Netheril a little more. ;)Indeed. I felt that Lost Empires of Faerūn did well in attempting to do just that. It's my hope that Grand History will do what it can to further redeem some of the older Netherese lore that needs the "extra lovin'" that only the minds of Eric and George can provide. ;)
Karsus the Mad 06-06-07, 05:21 AM	Well I've always had an unhealthy fascination with the netherese and their timeframe... specifically with Karsus himself... I've been hunting everywhere to get the full list of material components for his steal divinity spell :) Or just that it has to be made up not including the Gold dragon gizzard diped in tarrasque blood >:) I'll let you in on a secret. Those material components you're talking about were the material components for the various spells and rituals required to enchant one of the material components of the spell itself. The primary material component of the Karsus's Avatar spell (there weren't that many) was a week old bean burito I found in the microwave. In truth, noone knows what the material components of the spell itself were. However, reading through the novels, I believe it mentions Karsus uses a large chunk of starmetal and vast qauntities of heavy magic. I haven't read the books myself, but that's what I've heard. Not sure how accurate it is tho'.
Krash 06-06-07, 06:53 AM	-Such creatures don't wield the political power, mind you, as your Larlochs, your Szass Tams, your Sememmons... Sememmon's political power is limited now that he has made his break with the Zhentarim - just the way he likes it actually ... :) -- George Krashos
Krash 06-06-07, 06:55 AM	-The typical Sharn casts spells as a 7th level Socerer, and a 5th level Cleric, as per Monsterous Compendium: Monsters of Faerūn. The sharn are a bit behind the times. Mayhap they'll be getting updated soon. -- George Krashos
Andyr 06-06-07, 04:57 PM	The sharn are a bit behind the times. Mayhap they'll be getting updated soon. -- George Krashos A sly tease?
Lord Karsus 06-06-07, 11:08 PM	Sememmon's political power is limited now that he has made his break with the Zhentarim - just the way he likes it actually ... :) -- George Krashos -Even still, he has political weight to throw around. Zhentarim or not, Sememmon is still Sememmon. Jimmy Carter isn't the current President of the United States, but he still is Jimmy Carter, you know? The sharn are a bit behind the times. Mayhap they'll be getting updated soon. -- George Krashos -It's still the best we've got, so far.
Krash 06-07-07, 04:48 AM	Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me. As for the sharn, the write-up is the best you've got. For now. -- George Krashos
The_Shaman 06-07-07, 11:48 AM	Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Unless someone manages to **** him off. I consider him one of the more intriguiging characters - a "wild card" of sorts that could pop up in any game.
Micheal_Roele 06-07-07, 01:18 PM	The wizard who is still alive after latest novel, hasn't been mindlessly stomped flat, and doesn't make us laugh when we look at his stats.
Lord Karsus 06-07-07, 07:01 PM	Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me. -Indeed, as demonstrated by some of his recent appearances and doings. But, the fact that he isn't interested in politics and power anymore doesn't change the fact that he still can command a degree of it at anytime he wishes. As for the sharn, the write-up is the best you've got. For now. -Yes...That's what I said.
Xavier_of_Cormyr 06-08-07, 11:36 AM	-A city that's falling apart around him, sure. True, but has anyone read the 1st book in the "Twilght War" dubbed "Shadowbred"???? As of autumn 1374, Shade has "repaired" its Mythallar and has risen once again... SPOILER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * and they have raised the fallen enclave of Sakkors- the next step in creating a second age of Netheril. My point being this- when you are a uber netherese archmage, and have a squad of epic level kids walking around, you hold a pretty good hand in the most powerful contest.
GothicDan 06-08-07, 12:14 PM	And the Netherese are also pretty awesome at destroying themselves and not working very well together... There's so many things I don't like about the Shades. I wish Halruaa had remained the primary bastion of Netherese tradition and history. I love that place.
Karsus the Mad 06-08-07, 07:18 PM	And the Netherese are also pretty awesome at destroying themselves and not working very well together... There's so many things I don't like about the Shades. I wish Halruaa had remained the primary bastion of Netherese tradition and history. I love that place. Halruaa can't be the primary bastion of Netherese tradition and knowledge tho'...they haven't destroyed themselves yet:P I think that's a primary requisite of being related to Netheril: self destruct. Tho' I must admit, raising a new enclave isn't exactly childs play....even back in the day it required immense magical skill. Even moreso now days. Sounds like a powderkeg being lit. Well, at least we can be assured that Shade has kept at least one of Netheril's traditions <points up to end of first paragraph>. *wanders off to snooze after 17 hour work day loving Netheril, hoping it'll stay dead*
Lord Karsus 06-08-07, 11:00 PM	True, but has anyone read the 1st book in the "Twilght War" dubbed "Shadowbred"???? As of autumn 1374, Shade has "repaired" its Mythallar and has risen once again... SPOILER * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * and they have raised the fallen enclave of Sakkors- the next step in creating a second age of Netheril. -Doesn't change the fact that the place is pretty much a hole in the wall.
XHereticX 06-08-07, 11:18 PM	Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me. As for the sharn, the write-up is the best you've got. For now. -- George Krashos Hasen't semmemmon resorted to seeking help from heroes and do-gooders?
Cloaked_in_Shadow 06-09-07, 02:27 AM	Larloch gets my vote, but Shaaan the Serpent Queen deserves a mention.
Jhiroth 06-09-07, 03:08 AM	If you go by straight CR: -Daurgothoth If you go by Ed: -Larloch In terms of pure caster levels? Shoon VII has 36 levels (Nec31/Acm5) Telamont Tanthul has 35 (Wiz20/Acm5/Sha10) Rhangaun has 33 (Wiz20/Epic8/Acm5) Larloch has 32 (Wiz20/Epic12) Aumvor has 32 (Nec15/Acm5/Epic7/Netherese Arcanist5)
XHereticX 06-09-07, 09:25 AM	If you go by straight CR: -Daurgothoth If you go by Ed: -Larloch In terms of pure caster levels? Shoon VII has 36 levels (Nec31/Acm5) Telamont Tanthul has 35 (Wiz20/Acm5/Sha10) Rhangaun has 33 (Wiz20/Epic8/Acm5) Larloch has 32 (Wiz20/Epic12) Aumvor has 32 (Nec15/Acm5/Epic7/Netherese Arcanist5) who is Daurgothoth?
Xavier_of_Cormyr 06-09-07, 11:05 AM	-Doesn't change the fact that the place is pretty much a hole in the wall. But its a flying Mythallar hole in the wall... that's still nifty. And I have no doubt that the shadovar will eventually get the smack down layed on them by someone... it'll just be another RSE that spans several novels & causes us all to fret over current maps & lore.
Jhiroth 06-09-07, 12:56 PM	who is Daurgothoth? Here is his official writeup (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020327a)
Zanan 06-09-07, 04:08 PM	My vote goes out for Ythazz Buvaat, but I'll leave you at a guess where to look for him ... or what he is ... for the time being. :evillaugh
DyneSolweaver 06-09-07, 06:15 PM	I say It would be the Oracle (aka Ioulaum), except he isn't evil per say. But his personallity and how he acts tward others, I would rethink this alignment. Ioulaum the Elder Brain Lich: Male Netherese Human Elder Brain Lich Wiz31/Acm5/Netherese Arcanist 5; CR 53; Large Undead (Augmented Aberration, Augmented Humanoid, Psionic); HD 67d12 plus 67; hp 508; Init +5; Spd 10 ft., fly 30 ft. (good), swim 30 ft.; AC 30 (touch 10, flat-footed 29); Base Atk +34; Grp +39; Atk +34 melee (1d8+5, touch) or +34 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d8+5 negative energy plus extract, tendril); Full Atk +34 melee (1d8+5, touch) or +34 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d8+5 negative energy plus extract, 4 tendrils); Face/Reach 10 ft./10 ft.; SA Damaging touch, extract, fear aura, improved grab, mind blast, paralyzing touch, psi-like abilities, psionics, spells; SQ +4 turn resistance, Archmage high arcana, backlash resistance, blindsight 240 ft., bud brain golem, DR 15/adamantine, bludgeoning and magic, epic spell artisan, field specialization, greater spell focus (epic), immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph, and mind-affecting effects, power resistance 34, regeneration 10, resistance to fire 10, spell focus (epic), telepathic awareness, undead traits; AL LN; SV Fort +29, Ref +30, Will +44; Str 13, Dex 13, Con -, Int 44, Wis 28, Cha 26 Skills and Feats: Appraise +27 (+31 with alchemical items), Bluff +33, Concentration +78 (+82 when casting defensively), Craft (alchemy) +57, Decipher Script +57, Diplomacy +50, Disguise +18 (+22 acting), Hide +9, Intimidate +40, Knowledge (arcana) +87, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +52, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +52, Knowledge (geography) +52, Knowledge (history-Netheril) +62, Knowledge (local-the North) +62, Knowledge (nature) +52, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +52, Knowledge (psionics) +52, Knowledge (religion) +52, Knowledge (the planes) +62, Listen +41, Move Silently +9, Profession (scribe) +19, Psicraft +47, Ride (dragon) +6, Search +35 (+39 with hidden or secret doors), Sense Motive +43, Speak Language (loross, common, abyssal, aquan, aragrakh, auran, celestial, draconic, dwarven, elven, ignan, illuskan, infernal, netherese, roushoum, seldriun, terran, thorass, undercommon), Spellcraft +138, Spot +41, Survival +19 (+23 underground, avoid getting lost, and aboveground; +25 on other planes); Alertness, Combat Casting, Craft Artifact{B}, Craft Construct{B}, Craft Magic Arms and Armor{B}, Craft Rod{B}, Craft Staff, Craft Wand{B}, Craft Wondrous Item, Epic Spellcasting{B}, Empower Spell, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Forge Ring, Heighten Spell, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Iniative, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity x 4, Improved Toughness, Multispell, Nonverbal Spell, Practiced Spellcaster (wizard), Psionic Mediation, Quicken Power, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll{B}, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus (divination), Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Penetration, Still Spell Special Qualities: Damaging touch (DC 51), paralyzing touch (DC 51), fear aura (DC 51), undead traits, lich immunities (immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph [though he can use polymorph effects on himself], and mind-affecting attacks). Blindsight 240 ft., bud brain golem, extract, mind blast (DC 51), power resistance 34, regeneration 10, resistance to fire 10, telepathic awareness. Archmage high arcana: arcane fire (600 ft., 5d6 plus 1d6 per spell level sacrificed), mastery of counterspelling, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, spell power +1. Field specialization, spell focus (epic), backlash resistance, epic spell artisan, greater spell focus (epic). Spell-like abilities (as 45th level caster): at will – avoid planar effects (self only, always constant, if dispelled can be reactivated as a free action); 1/day – plane shift. Psionic Powers Known (power points 513; save DC 27 + power level; manifester (telepath) level 20th): 1st–defensive precognition, detect psionics, mind thrust (DC 28), psionic charm (DC 28), vigor; 2nd–body equilibrium, ego whip (DC 29), id insinuation (DC 29), psionic levitate, psionic suggestion (DC 29), read thoughts (DC 29); 3rd–body adjustment, body purification, dispel psionics, false sensory input (DC 30), mental barrier; 4th–intellect fortress, personality parasite (DC 31), psionic dimension door, psionic divination, psionic dominate (DC 31), schism; 5th–adapt body, mind probe (DC 32), psionic plane shift, psychic crush (DC 32), shatter mind blank (DC 32); 6th–energy wave (DC 33), mass cloud mind (DC 33), psionic disintegrate (DC 33), psionic true seeing; 7th–crisis of life (DC 34), insanity (DC 34), personal mind blank; 8th-mind seed (DC 35), psionic greater teleport, true metabolism; 9th-apopsi (DC 36), assimilate (DC 36), microcosm, psychic chirurgery (DC 36). Wizard Spells Prepared (4/9/8/8/8/7/6/6/6/6/4/4/4/4; base DC = 28 + spell level, DC 29 + spell level with divination and evocation spells; caster level 45th). Arcane Epic Spells Per Day: 7 Possessions: Unknown. Description: Unknown. Note: Ioulaum has used wishes to grant himself the maximum inherent scores in Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. As an ancient Netherese he has the benefits of being venerable age, Sources: Netheril: Empire of Magic (2E), PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, MM 3.5, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3E), Player’s Guide to Faerun (3.5E), Lost Empires of Faerun (3.5E), Underdark (3.5E), Epic Level Handbook (3E), Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.5E), Deities and Demigods (3E), Planar Handbook (3.5E), Libris Mortis (3.5E), and Lords of Madness (3.5E).
XHereticX 06-09-07, 06:16 PM	For the last time Ioulaum is LN, not evil.
MerrikCale 06-10-07, 12:05 AM	Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me. Hmmm....does this little tidbit have anything to do with your Sememmon write up in the upcoming Dragon....hmmmmm
Krash 06-10-07, 05:23 AM	Hmmm....does this little tidbit have anything to do with your Sememmon write up in the upcoming Dragon....hmmmmm Could be ... :D -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 06-10-07, 11:58 PM	But its a flying Mythallar hole in the wall... that's still nifty. -Eh...It makes lightning strikes all the more common, and makes slipping on a patch of ice potentially deadly.
Xavier_of_Cormyr 06-11-07, 12:54 AM	-Eh...It makes lightning strikes all the more common, and makes slipping on a patch of ice potentially deadly. Whew... tough crowd.... :blink:
MaskedOne 06-11-07, 01:17 AM	Shrug, ok, it's pre-arranged floating geography for me to pound morons with. I'd thank Telamont but he's high on the list of people to pound and I doubt he'll appreciate my gratitude for not having tear geography up on my own when I eventually throw Sakkors at him. Shrug, what? Floating mountains are only as important as the purpose they're put to or whatever is under them when they rediscover gravity.
Xavier_of_Cormyr 06-11-07, 09:00 AM	Shrug, ok, it's pre-arranged floating geography for me to pound morons with. I'd thank Telamont but he's high on the list of people to pound and I doubt he'll appreciate my gratitude for not having tear geography up on my own when I eventually throw Sakkors at him. Shrug, what? Floating mountains are only as important as the purpose they're put to or whatever is under them when they rediscover gravity. wow, who poured sugar into your gas tank? ;)
GothicDan 06-11-07, 09:02 AM	And also, shrugging too much makes it look like you're trying too hard to care about not caring. That was a completely random observation. I've only had a handful of hours to sleep in the past 3 days.
Lord Karsus 06-11-07, 10:13 AM	Whew... tough crowd.... :blink: -Well, it's not like it's not true.
MaskedOne 06-11-07, 12:08 PM	And also, shrugging too much makes it look like you're trying too hard to care about not caring. That was a completely random observation. I've only had a handful of hours to sleep in the past 3 days. Probably an accurate one in some cases. In my case, it's just become a habit that I don't really think about anymore. It'll pass eventually when I put more effort into these posts than I have been in recent history. Since I'm pretty much interacting with the boards on reflex these days rather than actually putting a great deal of thought into anything, odd quirks will show up and stick around for months. How my odd quirks appear and are interpreted will of course vary.
Lykor 06-11-07, 12:55 PM	No one has mentioned Halaster? At least in Undermountain, it would pretty much take a god to dig him out. Other notables (certainly A-list, but not necessarily top 5) Manshoon B (Currently working as a mercenary) Vampire Moonshoon (Orloch?, leader of the Night Masks in Tantras) Gromph Baenre (highest known drow mage) Evil Elminster, from Elminster III
MarkusTay63 06-11-07, 12:56 PM	For the last time Ioulaum is LN, not evil.Define Evil. If someone gets in his way... say a Paladin... will he not instantly destroy him? Alignments are silly and abstract - sometimes you have to think beyond them. Ioulaum gets my vote as all-time bestest bad-ass. :D Of course, if I ever complete my write-up of the Nautilus Enclave you will discover the forgotten Archmage Seluj Enrev, who was as smart and powerful as Ioulaum and Karsus COMBINED. A little over-the-top perhaps, but he wasn't evil so he wouldn't count for this thread anyway. Are we talking about FR only? Because 1e's Yyrkoon (D&D) was pretty damn mean (level 37), although not nearly as tough as his level 69 cousin. ;) And since both he and his cousin were frequent plane-hoppers, there is no reason why he couldn't make an appearance in FR.
captaincarot 06-11-07, 01:17 PM	halaster can't be the most powerfull, because the other guys on here all out do him, but it does beg the question why both he and elminster are so comparatively low when compared with the others. as for them shade thingies. i don't mind em flying around on upturned mountain tops as long as the mountain tops don't realise they can't fly when they're right above my head!
Lord Karsus 06-11-07, 05:21 PM	Define Evil. -In this case, I think we're just talking about those with the 'Evil' alignment, in D&D terms. Of course, if I ever complete my write-up of the Nautilus Enclave you will discover the forgotten Archmage Seluj Enrev, who was as smart and powerful as Ioulaum and Karsus COMBINED. -Whatever...:rolleyes: -I'm #1, and I'll always be #1. Vampire Moonshoon (Orloch?, leader of the Night Masks in Tantras) -Orbakh. The Night Masks operate out of Westgate, by the way. Not Tantras. Gromph Baenre (highest known drow mage) -Untrue. Off the top of my head, without looking at any other sources, I can think of two others, in Menzoberranzan, who were/are at higher levels than Gromph- Dyrr the Lichdrow and Jalynfein the Spider-Mage.
boards 06-11-07, 11:55 PM	Define Evil. If someone gets in his way... say a Paladin... will he not instantly destroy him? Alignments are silly and abstract - sometimes you have to think beyond them. Ioulaum gets my vote as all-time bestest bad-ass. :D Of course, if I ever complete my write-up of the Nautilus Enclave you will discover the forgotten Archmage Seluj Enrev, who was as smart and powerful as Ioulaum and Karsus COMBINED. A little over-the-top perhaps, but he wasn't evil so he wouldn't count for this thread anyway. Are we talking about FR only? Because 1e's Yyrkoon (D&D) was pretty damn mean (level 37), although not nearly as tough as his level 69 cousin. ;) And since both he and his cousin were frequent plane-hoppers, there is no reason why he couldn't make an appearance in FR. Ioulaum may destroy anyone who gets in his way, but he does not seek to actively hurt, torture, corrupt or conquor people who don't enter into his domain. He simply follows his own plan without caring what happens to other beings, pretty much what Neutral seems to be about.
Duagloth 06-12-07, 10:17 AM	Ioulaum may destroy anyone who gets in his way, but he does not seek to actively hurt, torture, corrupt or conquor people who don't enter into his domain. He simply follows his own plan without caring what happens to other beings, pretty much what Neutral seems to be about. Isnt Larloch doing exactly the same?
Lord Karsus 06-12-07, 10:43 AM	-I would give Larloch a Chaotic Neutral with Evil tendencies alignment. I would have given him a Lawful alignment, but I don't think I can justify it with his bouts of "madness" and all.
Karsus the Mad 06-12-07, 01:12 PM	-Whatever... -I'm #1, and I'll always be #1. Darn right. Besides, we all know Szizomen Tor, the 96th level archmage, is the true master :incog: Isnt Larloch doing exactly the same? Pretty much, but he's also purposely affected others with his machinations. Didn't he infect Baldur's Gate with a deadly plague, almost wiping it out? Meh, my brains are so muddled when I just wake up:embarrass He also plays with adventurers, but I can't deem that as Evil. It's simply fun. -I would give Larloch a Chaotic Neutral with Evil tendencies alignment. I would have given him a Lawful alignment, but I don't think I can justify it with his bouts of "madness" and all. Never liked the whole CN = crazy thing. Larloch is cold, calculating, logical, and pretty much never random in his actions (save for those bouts of madness of course). That seems more of a Lawful trait. Tho' simply N with Evil tendencies sounds more accurate to me. Of course, I don't use alignment. I'd have his allegiance be Larloch, the Art, Law.
Lord Karsus 06-12-07, 02:43 PM	Darn right. -That's right. Never liked the whole CN = crazy thing. Larloch is cold, calculating, logical, and pretty much never random in his actions (save for those bouts of madness of course). That seems more of a Lawful trait. Tho' simply N with Evil tendencies sounds more accurate to me. Of course, I don't use alignment. I'd have his allegiance be Larloch, the Art, Law. -I agree, but you can't just ignore those bouts of madness. I never played 2e, so can someone be Lawful, with chaotic tendencies? Because if that's the case, then this would fit Larloch well. Lawful Neutral, with Chaotic and Evil tendencies.
BrennonGoldeye 06-12-07, 02:57 PM	-I agree, but you can't just ignore those bouts of madness. I never played 2e, so can someone be Lawful, with chaotic tendencies? Because if that's the case, then this would fit Larloch well. Lawful Neutral, with Chaotic and Evil tendencies. I believe the official classification would be "Neutral Grumpy". :D
Lord Karsus 06-12-07, 03:01 PM	-Could be.
GothicDan 06-12-07, 06:27 PM	NE Larloch seems to fit pretty well...
Karsus the Mad 06-12-07, 07:43 PM	-I agree, but you can't just ignore those bouts of madness. I never played 2e, so can someone be Lawful, with chaotic tendencies? Because if that's the case, then this would fit Larloch well. Lawful Neutral, with Chaotic and Evil tendencies. Reply With Quote I dunno. I always considered myself Lawfully Chaotic:embarrass so I have no probs with Larloch being LN with CE tendencies:P
XHereticX 06-12-07, 08:07 PM	For some reason Larloch has always seemed TN to me. He does whatever is most logical and beneficial to his research. He dosen't think about others, but he rarely thiks to actively harm them either. He does have evil tendencies though I admit. Just leave him alone and he will leave you alone, most likely.
BrennonGoldeye 06-12-07, 10:20 PM	Just leave him alone and he will leave you alone, most likely. Very wise words. Same goes for most Archmages, regardless of alignment. :mage:
captaincarot 06-13-07, 04:55 AM	For some reason Larloch has always seemed TN to me. He does whatever is most logical and beneficial to his research. He dosen't think about others, but he rarely thiks to actively harm them either. He does have evil tendencies though I admit. Just leave him alone and he will leave you alone, most likely. NE or even CE surely, he would have no compunctions about entirely destroying a forrest if it benefitted his research. where as a TN charachter would consider the balance. rather than being obsessed with their own power.
boards 06-13-07, 06:27 AM	I have to disagree. CE and even NE would more likely be destroying the forest for the sake of destroying the forest. The neutral one simply as a by product of his research/spell.
captaincarot 06-13-07, 07:05 AM	I have to disagree. CE and even NE would more likely be destroying the forest for the sake of destroying the forest. The neutral one simply as a by product of his research/spell. i really don't like that brain dead evil destroys things because they are there theory. they don't think tree live must kill tree must chop tree down kill tree kill kill kill aaaaggghhh! they think i want a fire an elf lives up that tree woohoo set tree on fire and get cooked elf in to the bargain. warmth and food in one. i tend to think of evil destroying some thing if it serves their purpose, neutral destroy things if it serves their purpose and does not effect the balance and good will destroy things only if others are not badly effected by it. orcs don't cut down trees because they don't like trees they cut them down because they want the wood to burn or build with but unlike a neutral charachter who would harvest the wood thoughtfully taking a little here and there. they are destructive sparing no thought to decimating entire swathes of land and giving no effort to mitigating their actions by reparing the damage through planting. just to clarify something the braindead reference above is in reference to evil not the theory or to anyone reading it.
boards 06-13-07, 09:03 AM	Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that the evil person would destroy just because it was there, but rather that they would enjoy the destruction of whatever got in there way. I see neutral as being more self absorbd, while evil enjoys dominating, and forcing there will on others. Hope that makes more sense.
captaincarot 06-13-07, 09:16 AM	i do see what you mean and i think he'd enjoy watching the results of his research take effect as well. so he would get enjoyment out of the wanton destruction.
BrennonGoldeye 06-13-07, 02:22 PM	As long as his research was based on the need for destruction. :)
boards 06-13-07, 05:29 PM	He would probably be pleased that his spell worked as designed, and maybe even clinically interested in the effects, but whether he would relish the pain that the recipients of the spell went through I dont know. Kinda difficult to get in the thought processes of a guy who thinks it fine to turn himself into a giant moldy brain:D
XHereticX 06-13-07, 07:41 PM	Larloch in many ways is actually quite similar to the Chosen. he researches magic for magic's sake, he is power hungry, but not evil and wontonly destructive. He always carefully consiters the results of his actions and never tries to disturb the natural balance of things. Mystra and him have a working relationship and in exchange for some powerful magic items he actually agrees to help spread magic by laying trinkits all over Faerun just like El does and encouraging the practice of the Art. By no means do I think he is evil, the only reason he shows such traits is because he tends to use somewhat...dubious, methods to get what he wants sometimes. But most catastrophies attributed to Larloch are mostly due to the evilness and stupidity of his servant liches.
captaincarot 06-14-07, 02:25 AM	He always carefully consiters the results of his actions and never tries to disturb the natural balance of things. this considered, not evil then but neutral as has been mentioned before.
The_Shaman 06-14-07, 09:23 AM	Mystra and him have a working relationship and in exchange for some powerful magic items he actually agrees to help spread magic by laying trinkits all over Faerun just like El does and encouraging the practice of the Art. Maybe. I think it was mentioned that this might have been just a rumor. BTW, not being destructive for the sake of destruction needn't mean you're not evil. That's one of the things I liked about Sememmon of Darkhold - he might be taking it slow for now, but if he had a cause, he would be just as ruthless and cruel as anyone else. So why is Ioulaum LN? I don't know, maybe he mellowed with age, or maybe his perspective got so broadened he sees things no one else does. Alignments do change, after all, I am pretty certain Jergal was once LE instead of LN (you can't tell me a LN would unleash a horror like Kezef) Or maybe it's a typo, and they meant LE.
Lord Karsus 06-14-07, 06:00 PM	one of the things I liked about Sememmon of Darkhold - he might be taking it slow for now, but if he had a cause, he would be just as ruthless and cruel as anyone else. -Not now, apparently. A source has stated that Sememmon is out of the politics, power and and ruthless business', much to my dismay. EDIT: Heh, right in this thread!
XHereticX 06-14-07, 07:22 PM	-Not now, apparently. A source has stated that Sememmon is out of the politics, power and and ruthless business', much to my dismay. EDIT: Heh, right in this thread! Yup, currently he is just wandering around with his elf girlfriend trying to figure out the purpose of his life. Damn, that sounded emo...
Lord Karsus 06-14-07, 10:44 PM	Yup, currently he is just wandering around with his elf girlfriend trying to figure out the purpose of his life. -Lucky guy.
Boda 06-15-07, 09:04 AM	Elsminster's the most powerful evil mage around. His constant affairs and meddling on others things have fuel more strife that anything! Besides he can use his women to trash any other candidate(mystra,simbul,that lame ghost,etc).
Krash 06-15-07, 09:18 AM	-Not now, apparently. A source has stated that Sememmon is out of the politics, power and and ruthless business', much to my dismay. EDIT: Heh, right in this thread! Who said he's out of the politics, power and ruthless business? He's still as ruthless as he ever was - maybe especially so now that he's only out for himself and Ashemmi. His debts to the Blackstaff have been repaid in full. The politics and power thing are things he can still do - when they suit him and for specific purposes. Currently, he's not navel gazing, he's looking at doing two things: finding a safe haven for himself and Ashemmi that won't endanger others they give two hoots about (not that those individuals number more than a dozen people) and coming to some sort of an 'understanding' with Manshoon to leave him alone, now and in the future. He's not sure how he's going to swing the latter, and hopes it doesn't mean that he has to spellslay Manshoon or his minions over and over before he gets the message. What Sememmon doesn't understand is that other members of the Zhentarim have had an interest in him from before he was even a member. Those who read the article very closely, may get a hint as to who that might be. -- George Krashos
BrennonGoldeye 06-15-07, 08:52 PM	I just love it when Krash gets all suggestive. :detect:
Lord Karsus 06-15-07, 11:46 PM	Who said he's out of the politics, power and ruthless business? -You did, when you said, "Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me."
Xavier_of_Cormyr 06-16-07, 11:07 AM	Who said he's out of the politics, power and ruthless business? He's still as ruthless as he ever was - maybe especially so now that he's only out for himself and Ashemmi. His debts to the Blackstaff have been repaid in full. The politics and power thing are things he can still do - when they suit him and for specific purposes. Currently, he's not navel gazing, he's looking at doing two things: finding a safe haven for himself and Ashemmi that won't endanger others they give two hoots about (not that those individuals number more than a dozen people) and coming to some sort of an 'understanding' with Manshoon to leave him alone, now and in the future. He's not sure how he's going to swing the latter, and hopes it doesn't mean that he has to spellslay Manshoon or his minions over and over before he gets the message. What Sememmon doesn't understand is that other members of the Zhentarim have had an interest in him from before he was even a member. Those who read the article very closely, may get a hint as to who that might be. -- George Krashos Am I gonna need my Cap'n Crunch decoder ring for this one? :detect:
Krash 06-16-07, 07:32 PM	-You did, when you said, "Sememmon is walking his own road now - politics don't interest him, neither does 'power' for that fact. Trust me." That's what I get for making an off the cuff post. What I meant by my first comment was that he wasn't interested in the politics and power that the Zhentarim and their machinations offered him. Truthfully, his political influence is now minimal - although he still has a few contacts and people who owe him favors - and he's realised that 'power' takes many forms. He's exploring the power of being beholden to no-one (although in saying that Ashemmi is his one weakness - although one that he welcomes). He's lived too long in Manshoon's shadow. As for my hints, that's all you are going to get. It's good to keep something up the sleeve every once in a while. Good luck working it out. Neither Eric nor Steven twigged. Ed might have, but he plays his cards closer to his chest than Larloch.:) -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 06-16-07, 09:14 PM	-Ah ha, I see.
captaincarot 06-19-07, 10:54 AM	bah durned riddles someone cast domination on him and make him tell us.
Jhiroth 06-19-07, 07:19 PM	Lots has been made of Larloch and how Ed stats him at 46th level. As I envision him in my head - Wiz32 (Per the canon) Acm5 (Almost all the uber mages have levels in Archmage) NethereseArcanist5 (The guy did come from there, duh) This gives us 42 'levels'. Throw the +4 LA bonus from the lich template, you get your 46th level. If I was just speculating that is...
Karsus the Mad 06-19-07, 08:09 PM	Lots has been made of Larloch and how Ed stats him at 46th level. As I envision him in my head - Wiz32 (Per the canon) Acm5 (Almost all the uber mages have levels in Archmage) NethereseArcanist5 (The guy did come from there, duh) This gives us 42 'levels'. Throw the +4 CR bonus from the lich template, you get your 46th level. If I was just speculating that is... You mean LA +4. Lich is a +2 CR template with +4 Level Adjustment.
Jhiroth 06-19-07, 08:11 PM	You mean LA +4. Lich is a +2 CR template with +4 Level Adjustment. I did, thanks for catching that, post edited to clarify.
Jhiroth 06-23-07, 12:56 AM	In terms of pure caster levels in the accessories. The Skulls cast as 36th level(Sor26/Acm5/Netherese Arcanist5) Shoon VII has 36 levels (Nec31/Acm5) Telamont Tanthul has 35 (Wiz20/Acm5/Sha10)
XHereticX 06-23-07, 07:05 PM	In terms of pure caster levels in the accessories. The Skulls cast as 36th level(Sor26/Acm5/Netherese Arcanist5) Shoon VII has 36 levels (Nec31/Acm5) Telamont Tanthul has 35 (Wiz20/Acm5/Sha10) Ed's Larloch Lv 46 >>>>>>>>all:P