Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VulcanStormwrath 05-14-07, 03:10 PM	Given the knowledge of the history and dogma of the Fearunian gods, which would you choose to serve: A) As a regular worshipper B) As a cleric/paladin/champion. Pro's and cons are welcome.
Alediran 05-14-07, 03:13 PM	A) Mystra, Oghma, most of the Seldarine. B) As a cleric, probably Corellon Larethian. Pros: when I die I get my afterlife on Arvandor in the shape of an elf. Plus great domains like Magic and War. Cons: don't have, Corellon is an awesome god to have as patron.
DaelricHearthsinger 05-14-07, 03:20 PM	Is this some kind of loaded question or what? :heehee Well I'm already a card carrying member of the Feline Ladies faith, and by extension Sune as well. I mean really whats not to (pun so not intended :headexplo ) love? Besides the obvious benefits (and for the record her faith is not all about physical beauty and love), theres just something about going to a worship by drinking, reveling and well other things. And sides what the downside? Exhaustion? Hangovers? I think spells got them covered ;)
GothicDan 05-14-07, 03:32 PM	A) Almost all of the Gods, to one extent or another. B) Azuth, Oghma, Corellon Larethian, Labelas Enoreth, or Talos.
VulcanStormwrath 05-14-07, 03:57 PM	A) As a follower being surrounded by beautiful women who tend to the needs of the flock is defenitely a mark in the Sune, Elistree, Sharess column. B) there is definitely something to be said for gods who support the beating of infidels for a just cause (Torm, Helm, TEMPUS!!!) pros: Church sanctioned violence Cons: Inqisitors watching your every step
Stigger 05-14-07, 04:00 PM	Sune, possibly Lliira, for both.
MaskedOne 05-14-07, 07:11 PM	Shrug, what I'd prefer abstract Good isn't a true option so I'll take the second options in both. Conveniently enough, same two options in both. Mystra: I love the concept of magic and the truly free spread of magic tends to complicate life for would be tyrants. Torm: Don't ask, certain degrees of devotion to duty appeal to me and he's the god of duty. I agree with some of what Lathander stands for but I'm not sure I like him. I'm ignoring cults of the One God (popped up in Temptation of Elminster, not sure if it was an AO cult) because of lack of information.
Zevox 05-14-07, 09:44 PM	A) Tyr, Ilmater, Oghma, Deneir, Azuth, Istishia. Plus the occassional prayer to folks with more wide-reaching portfolios, like Tymora, Talos, etc. B) As a Cleric or Paladin, Tyr. No contest. Zevox
Burningspear 05-14-07, 10:42 PM	A) Akadi, Lurue?, Milil, Savras, Sharess, Eilistraee. B) ehm...I am very curious minded, very communicative and very independent minded, i love "loving"(sexual) a person, dance (am a good dancer) and song (love singing along with old 1970 and Motown music that makes me tear), i love air and soft luke-warm rain, so i guess because i am a very expressionate person i would firstly go for Milil, then Sharess, then Savras.
GothicDan 05-14-07, 10:50 PM	I forgot about Savras! If I was a human, I'd worship him a lot. Labelas would take his place if I was an elf.
Burningspear 05-14-07, 11:25 PM	I forgot about Savras! If I was a human, I'd worship him a lot. Labelas would take his place if I was an elf. :plotting: :tie:, your welcome to my faith :smirk:
Mad Mage 05-15-07, 01:05 AM	1) Any god. I can't decide which. 2) As a Cleric: - Azuth - Bane - Dugmaren Brightmantle - Gond - Ilneval - Mystra - Oghma - Torm As a Paladin: - Azuth - Baravar Cloakshadow - Gaerdal Ironhand - Moradin - Mystra - Torm
Amon Hok 05-15-07, 03:51 AM	Savras rules! I wish his faith was stronger so he would be more of a contender in forgotten realms! I like Shiallia a quiet goddess who cares for animals and the forests Siamorphe she is also one of my favs! and Eldath gotta love her Hands down though i would totally become a priest of Savras.
Zandilar 05-15-07, 04:08 AM	Heya, A) As a regular worshipper Probably the whole pantheon in general, but specifically Tymora, Mystra, Eilistraee, Sharess, Sune, and Lliira. :) B) As a cleric/paladin/champion. Pro's and cons are welcome. The first four of the ones I listed are the ones most likely to get my whole hearted devotion. Of them, Tymora is probably The One, since I already worship her more earthly counterparts (Tyche, Fortuna, Lady Luck). :D
Karsus the Mad 05-15-07, 09:11 AM	A) The entire pantheon, in one form or another, with a patron depending on the scenario (Chauntea if I was a farmer, Gond if I was a smith, etc). Myself as well cuz we're just that cool:cool: B) Azuth (possibly. I have a penchant for the study of all things esoteric), Gond (positively love Gond. He's the closest representative of my own thinking in FR), Oghma (to learn all that can be known, and most of all the rest).
Lady_Mhaor 05-15-07, 05:52 PM	A) Tempus; wandering realms as a sword-for-hire B) Mask: Kezef would learn to fear the followers of the shadowlord :fight!:
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-15-07, 05:59 PM	a) Azuth rather than Mystra, Ogmah, or Meliki. Im a quiet, orderly Scholary type with a deep love of nature. B) Druid of Meliki, caring for the environment os laerning to live with it, not dumbly preserving it.
Burningspear 05-15-07, 08:19 PM	Savras rules! I wish his faith was stronger so he would be more of a contender in forgotten realms! Hands down though i would totally become a priest of Savras. Yeay, another soul for my beloved searcher of truth and knowledge/ fate... :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :bow: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Lady_Mhaor 05-15-07, 08:25 PM	What you think is truth is only what the shadowlord allows you to see
Burningspear 05-15-07, 08:59 PM	What you think is truth is only what the shadowlord allows you to see who is that shadow dude u r on about? Mask?, if someone else, who in heavens name can keep info from being sought out but maybe Shar, she has that in her portfolio, no other god has.
Lady_Mhaor 05-15-07, 09:36 PM	who is that shadow dude u r on about? Mask?, if someone else, who in heavens name can keep info from being sought out but maybe Shar, she has that in her portfolio, no other god has. Mask of course, the true god of intrigue
Burningspear 05-15-07, 09:42 PM	Mask of course, the true god of intrigue does not mean the truth cannot be found by the Diviner God of truth..tsss.. And to make a point, Intrigue is not keeping truths from other ppl to find out, u just don't go out of your way to tell them. Shar is the only one remotely in a position to keep any god from finding something out, regarding her portfolio's of forgetfulness, loss and unrevealed secrets...not Mask. edit: ps, sorry to diverge from the origin of this post :smirk:
Lady_Mhaor 05-15-07, 09:48 PM	But if you weave the intrigue does not the 'truth' become whatever the spinner makes of it and not what the diviner says it is and shar. . meh I call her an upstart godling but shes been around far too long
Dark Wizard 05-15-07, 09:58 PM	Who are you? What do you want? Who do you serve? Sorry couldn't resist.
Burningspear 05-15-07, 10:04 PM	But if you weave the intrigue does not the 'truth' become whatever the spinner makes of it and not what the diviner says it is and shar. . meh I call her an upstart godling but shes been around far too long Nah, intrigue only befuddles the mind of the "unknowing" plebs... it takes a keen mind though to find out that u need the piercing sight of a proper diviner, one that will give u a true answer, and it is then up to u to acknowledge that and use it as u see fit, thats just another feat in itself :plotting: :smirk:
GothicDan 05-15-07, 10:48 PM	The only way I could imagine anyone thinking Mask is in any way 'cooler' or more adept than Shar is reading pure novel propaganda. All too often people judge deities based on how well (or poorly) authors portray them or their clergy. I prefer not to judge deific personalities on such isolated events that are completely up to the inidividual author to glorify or butcher at a whim. See the Avatar Trilogy as an example.
Burningspear 05-15-07, 10:55 PM	The only way I could imagine anyone thinking Mask is in any way 'cooler' or more adept than Shar is reading pure novel propaganda. All too often people judge deities based on how well (or poorly) authors portray them or their clergy. I prefer not to judge deific personalities on such isolated events that are completely up to the inidividual author to glorify or butcher at a whim. See the Avatar Trilogy as an example. :clap: Agreed :smirk:
Lord_Madrigan 05-15-07, 11:53 PM	Whom do you Trust?
Kinokono 05-16-07, 12:24 AM	A) I would prolly say I would would give praise to any deity that had no qualms with Umberlee B) I would serve Umberlee as a cleric or palidan, no contest
Boda 05-16-07, 10:42 AM	A) one of trio: Mask(if i want it, i take it), Waukeen(there's never enough money), Tymora(better lucky than good) B)Red Knight(armies to play), Savvras(new magic tricks), Kossuth( i get to blow stuff)
Karsus the Mad 05-16-07, 02:05 PM	who is that shadow dude u r on about? Mask?, if someone else, who in heavens name can keep info from being sought out but maybe Shar, she has that in her portfolio, no other god has. Oghma actually;) Who are you? What do you want? Who do you serve? Sorry couldn't resist. Whom do you Trust? You two forgot "Where are you going?":cool:
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 02:42 PM	What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen City of Shade? Oh, sorry.;) See the Avatar Trilogy as an example. Dan, it happened, accept it and move on. At this point it's akin to "I don't like that whole WW2 thing, I'll think ignore it." ;)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 02:45 PM	Dan, it happened, accept it and move on. At this point it's akin to "I don't like that whole WW2 thing, I'll think ignore it." How? I know it 'happened.' But we've had several designers telling us that divine events can't quite be perceived correctly by mortals, anyway (Eric and Ed), so to take everything that happened in such novels at face value is... Assuming a lot. Oddly enough, I first picked up the 2E campaign setting and then immediately read Shadowdale. It was that novel that turned me off of the Realms for a long time, before I started talking to people online more about it, and realizing there was a lot of GOOD in the Realms if you ignored the ToT. I was all of 12 at the time and could smell the defecation. ;)
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 02:53 PM	How? I know it 'happened.' But we've had several designers telling us that divine events can't quite be perceived correctly by mortals, anyway (Eric and Ed), so to take everything that happened in such novels at face value is... Assuming a lot. Oddly enough, I first picked up the 2E campaign setting and then immediately read Shadowdale. It was that novel that turned me off of the Realms for a long time, before I started talking to people online more about it, and realizing there was a lot of GOOD in the Realms if you ignored the ToT. Well, when you put it that way I fully agree. Add that the ToT has yet to end as far as the Pantheon is concerned and you have a myriad of ways to fix "discrepencies" in the outcomes. But that's not a problem with the novels or writers. Thats a problem with lack of (mortal)understanding. :) I would also like to offer that the ToT was very very very good for the Realms. It being coin dependent and all. Just a thought.:D
GothicDan 05-16-07, 02:59 PM	Again, anyone who uses 'popularity' of the campaign setting in an argument with me will be shot on sight. ;) Except for Brennon. Popularity is overrated!
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 03:29 PM	Again, anyone who uses 'popularity' of the campaign setting in an argument with me will be shot on sight. ;) Except for Brennon. Popularity is overrated! Yes, yes it is. Then again when popularity is what causes your continuing existence........;)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 03:36 PM	But it's not. More often, it provides us with a lot of crunch and new lore I don't approve of, so I end up falling back on the older lore and the FREE information that Ed gives us, anyway. ;) So you can see why I'm not all that thrilled when new material comes out.
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 04:01 PM	But it's not. More often, it provides us with a lot of crunch and new lore I don't approve of, so I end up falling back on the older lore and the FREE information that Ed gives us, anyway. ;) So you can see why I'm not all that thrilled when new material comes out. Hmm. I think that explained alot. What color do you want your patina Dan?
Zsych 05-16-07, 04:04 PM	Serve? Serve??? I suppose I could tolerate Karsus, and make it my mission to resurrect the dude(apart from working to become a god myself... even if its not on Toril)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 04:22 PM	What kind of Pantina?
Lady_Mhaor 05-16-07, 04:32 PM	The only way I could imagine anyone thinking Mask is in any way 'cooler' or more adept than Shar is reading pure novel propaganda. All too often people judge deities based on how well (or poorly) authors portray them or their clergy. I prefer not to judge deific personalities on such isolated events that are completely up to the inidividual author to glorify or butcher at a whim. See the Avatar Trilogy as an example. Or simply because I see him as the greatest god of the realms, novels be damned. And who said he was more adept than shar? surely not me, though cooler yes
GothicDan 05-16-07, 04:35 PM	Or simply because I see him as the greatest god of the realms, novels be damned. How do you define greatness and coolness, then? Just from looking at their respective entries in F&A/F&P? Mind you, I have nothing against Mask. I just don't like the tide of ZOMG MASK ROCZXXX!!1 that has followed from Mr. Kemp's novels (even if they ARE good novels). It's Cyric who I dislike, and Kelemvor who I hate, almost solely because they had no characterization BEFORE they were introduced in novels - which are innately flawed in terms of presenting anything remotely resembling an unbiased POV.
Lady_Mhaor 05-16-07, 04:39 PM	How do you define greatness and coolness, then? Just from looking at their respective entries in F&A/F&P? Mind you, I have nothing against Mask. I just don't like the tide of ZOMG MASK ROCZXXX!!1 that has followed from Mr. Kemp's novels (even if they ARE good novels). It's Cyric who I dislike, and Kelemvor who I hate, almost solely because they had no characterization BEFORE they were introduced in novels - which are innately flawed in terms of presenting anything remotely resembling an unbiased POV. Been following of mask before I even started reading kemps Cale novels, mind you I don't like cale, it started when I still played the first Nwn and need a god for my tiefer
GothicDan 05-16-07, 04:59 PM	Ah. Okay, then!
Karsus the Mad 05-16-07, 07:24 PM	Except for Brennon. Popularity is overrated! Meh. Popularity is what sells. Serve? Serve??? I suppose I could tolerate Karsus, and make it my mission to resurrect the dude(apart from working to become a god myself... even if its not on Toril) Do you mean ME personally, or Karsus as an abstract ideal? Very important distinction, given the amount of credibility given to LK and myself.
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 10:17 PM	What kind of Pantina? I think a lite blue-green would look nice. Just a bit of black for the adamantine stubborn streak.:D
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:18 PM	Sounds sexy!
BrennonGoldeye 05-16-07, 10:20 PM	Without a doubt. Sexy Gothic Elitist Bastage. Grrrrrrr......
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:35 PM	Grrr! ... Disregard my newly-dyed blonde hair and blue contacts. *Sips protein supplement.*
Dark Wizard 05-18-07, 02:35 AM	Whom do you Trust? Where are you going? Why are you here? Do you have anything worth living for? And so it begins. (A bit out of order, but we get the idea. :) ) Now I want to buy some DVDs.
boards 05-18-07, 05:43 AM	It would probably have to be Corellon for me. The human gods are too focused on one aspect. I could possibly go for Lathander but the others meh.
Zsych 05-18-07, 05:58 AM	@KtM: If you were there, I might worship you to help you along on your way to godhood. Your knowledge of science might come in handy with some demonstratably non-magical, magical effects :)
Khaelieth 05-18-07, 08:38 AM	Regular worshipper: Hanali Celanil (if I was an elf), Sune or perhaps Sharess if I was human. Champion: Bane. No doubt about it! Though I would consider Loviatar if I got a better deal.
XHereticX 05-18-07, 10:42 PM	Asmodeus!!!:P
Arbourean 05-19-07, 03:38 AM	My opinion of Kelemvor improved greatly after his transformation during Crucible (assuming those events are true). For the first time probably ever, Faerun has a true god of the dead, and not just a supremely powerful necromancer (Myrkul) a madman (Cyric) or a tyrant (Jergal). I just find his newfound personality to be more befitting the judge of the dead. Like almost all inhabitants of the Realms, I would pray to different gods depending on what the situation was. My patron would be a harder choice, but I would say Oghma, despite his refusal to allow the free flow of ideas.
MaskedOne 05-19-07, 01:25 PM	I'd appreciate Kelemvor more if (and I don't believe I'm about to say something good about that utter abomination of a novel) he was portrayed more as Crucible did. Mainly, why do we have a Wall of the Faithless again? Kelemvor pretty much turned his realm into a place of eternal boredom, no real punishment or reward. Why is there a bloody wall of mortared souls?!!!
Arbourean 05-19-07, 01:43 PM	I'd appreciate Kelemvor more if (and I don't believe I'm about to say something good about that utter abomination of a novel) he was portrayed more as Crucible did. Mainly, why do we have a Wall of the Faithless again? Kelemvor pretty much turned his realm into a place of eternal boredom, no real punishment or reward. Why is there a bloody wall of mortared souls?!!! The Wall is probably something Kelemvor is forced to maintain by Ao's decree. Personally I feel both the False and Faithless should just be sentenced to spend eternity as petitioners in the Spire. Neither punishment nor reward. It doesn't fit into Kelemvor's personality to simply obliterate atheists. He shouldn't care either way.
Lord_Steve 05-19-07, 01:49 PM	1. Pretty much any god that would serve me as much as I serve them....I'd probably go with Sharress thoguh...hells, you worship by pleasuring yourself! and you are rewarded with pleasure! Tymora too, nobody can ever have enough luck. 2. The Halgling Trickster, Definitely, sounds like a fun diety......Tricksters hair toes!!!!! lol.......Milil would be nice, always good for one to love the arts.....Sharress and Sune.....I'd worship Vhaerun too if it werent for the fact that the Drow and all their back stabbing idiotic ways didnt constantly **** me off....I can understand the whole darkness and sadistic nature but bloody hells!!!!! No honor whatsoevere, a sad sad bunch, trying to find order where none exists, toturing themselves to please their goddess and crossing over to suffer even more.....idiots. That's pretty much.
Lady_Mhaor 05-19-07, 03:09 PM	Then join us maskarrans we have honor and since Mask kidnapped Vhaerun and will soon absorb him completely *this is all just wishful thinking* u can have the best of both worlds
Arbourean 05-19-07, 04:01 PM	Mask and Vhaeruan: The personal b****es of their respective pantheons...
Lady_Mhaor 05-19-07, 04:05 PM	Mask and Vhaeruan: The personal b****es of their respective pantheons... *ignores such blasphemous and ignorant comments such as that* :bored:
Karsus the Mad 05-19-07, 04:36 PM	@KtM: If you were there, I might worship you to help you along on your way to godhood. Your knowledge of science might come in handy with some demonstratably non-magical, magical effects :) I am here....worship away! Just because I don't share doesn't mean I don't have;)
Zevox 05-19-07, 11:19 PM	Then join us maskarrans we have honor :uh-huh: ...you haven't read the Shadowlord's dogma in a while, have you? Zevox
GothicDan 05-19-07, 11:19 PM	Teehee. Mask and honor... It's like, "Girls and sexy" going together. .... For me. Not you guys.
XHereticX 05-19-07, 11:22 PM	Teehee. Mask and honor... It's like, "Girls and sexy" going together. .... For me. Not you guys. U actually gay or u just pretending?:P Oh, Mask's followers have as much honor as a politician on campaign week, which is more then I expected.
GothicDan 05-19-07, 11:24 PM	I'm a big 'ol f-a-g. (Seriously.)
Lady_Mhaor 05-19-07, 11:25 PM	:uh-huh: ...you haven't read the Shadowlord's dogma in a while, have you? Zevox *cough* uh hello? Converting new followers, you know anything goes then and if I can make them believe that we, maskarrans, have honor then its extra points for me I mean REALLY tsk tsk
XHereticX 05-19-07, 11:26 PM	*cough* uh hello? Converting new followers, you know anything goes then and if I can make them believe that we, maskarrans, have honor then its extra points for me I mean REALLY tsk tsk You just said that out loud, a very unmaskarran way to do it.
Lady_Mhaor 05-19-07, 11:26 PM	I'm a big 'ol f-a-g. (Seriously.) *toss you a cookie* I have no idea why dont ask
GothicDan 05-19-07, 11:38 PM	No! They Make Me Fat!
XHereticX 05-19-07, 11:44 PM	Bah, I would never serve mask. Rogues have never been my style.
GothicDan 05-20-07, 12:02 AM	Wizards > Greater than all.
Lady_Mhaor 05-20-07, 09:32 AM	You just said that out loud, a very unmaskarran way to do it. Shush you that was OOC
Lady_Mhaor 05-20-07, 09:33 AM	Wizards > Greater than all. Wizard-ShadowDancers > Wizards
ElberethSilverleaf 05-20-07, 09:56 AM	Corellon baby...he's cuter than hell and goes both ways. ;)
GothicDan 05-20-07, 01:19 PM	Anything vaguely roguish is about as useless as you can get. Shadowdancers are cooler than standard rogues, but still useless. I hate rogues. Ahem. GO CUTE CORELLON!
Lady_Mhaor 05-20-07, 01:41 PM	O.o ahh. . . ahh. . ..okay then *shadow steps away*
GothicDan 05-20-07, 01:42 PM	*Heightened Finger of Death on the rogue!* DARN YOU!!11one
XHereticX 05-20-07, 03:18 PM	Wizard-ShadowDancers > Wizards Chuck Norris>>>>>>>>>>anything that has ever been said before:P
Lord_Steve 05-20-07, 04:35 PM	Then join us maskarrans we have honor and since Mask kidnapped Vhaerun and will soon absorb him completely *this is all just wishful thinking* u can have the best of both worlds Exactly how does Mask and his crew have honor? Though he does sound interesting, judging from his role in that Shade dude's life....damn, if only I could remember names.
Lady_Mhaor 05-20-07, 05:03 PM	Exactly how does Mask and his crew have honor? Though he does sound interesting, judging from his role in that Shade dude's life....damn, if only I could remember names. Cale. . . I dont like him but yeah Cuz thieves have honor. Question us and we kill you.
XHereticX 05-20-07, 05:13 PM	Cale. . . I dont like him but yeah Cuz thieves have honor. Question us and we kill you. compared to what some people do, that is pretty honorable.
Lady_Mhaor 05-20-07, 05:15 PM	im glad you agree
Zandilar 05-20-07, 08:09 PM	Heya, Chuck Norris>>>>>>>>>>anything that has ever been said before:P Chuck Norris would probably burn DnD books. Does he still win?
XHereticX 05-20-07, 08:11 PM	Heya, Chuck Norris would probably burn DnD books. Does he still win? Chuck Norris is God, he can do anything.
Zandilar 05-20-07, 08:17 PM	Heya, Chuck Norris is God, he can do anything. Knowing what I know about the guy, I doubt he'd appreciate hearing you say that.
Xamo'das 05-20-07, 09:17 PM	Ilmater, both as Layman, Cleric and Champion. A) (...)Talos. I must admit to certain curiosity as to what could possibly motivate a sensible person to worship a deity such as him? He seems senseless, destuctive, and little else. I doubt spending your afterlife with him would prove to be much fun either.
Aegis_Chiron 05-21-07, 02:56 AM	I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Selune. I think out of all the 'good' gods, I find her the most appealing. I mena, she's an intemediate power succusfully fighting a greater power to a atandstill. Then Lathander and maybe Tymora. As a cleric/Paly/Champion: Well my Y chromosome takes out Selune.... so then I'd go with Lathander or Tymora.
Zandilar 05-21-07, 06:44 AM	Heya, I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Selune. I think out of all the 'good' gods, I find her the most appealing. I mena, she's an intemediate power succusfully fighting a greater power to a atandstill. Then Lathander and maybe Tymora. Selune has allies, not the least of which is Mystra, and that's quite probably the only reason Shar hasn't long since crushed her. I like Selune, but I feel a stronger affinity for Eilistraee. :) As a cleric/Paly/Champion: Well my Y chromosome takes out Selune.... so then I'd go with Lathander or Tymora. I don't think being male would count you out of concideration, though she does seem to favour females.
Alediran 05-21-07, 10:01 AM	Wizards > Greater than all. Add Archmage and/or Elven High Mage and I'm with you.
Renvale999 05-21-07, 01:18 PM	1. Torm, no question...I have a tatoo that reads "Duty" which means to me "Duty to one's country and one's family", nuff said. 2. Torm again, and Bane would be in for a surprise when I run my sword through him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lady_Mhaor 05-21-07, 06:57 PM	1. Torm, no question...I have a tatoo that reads "Duty" which means to me "Duty to one's country and one's family", nuff said. 2. Torm again, and Bane would be in for a surprise when I run my sword through him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *titters like a little girl*
BrennonGoldeye 05-21-07, 09:18 PM	1. Torm, no question...I have a tatoo that reads "Duty" which means to me "Duty to one's country and one's family", nuff said. 2. Torm again, and Bane would be in for a surprise when I run my sword through him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *titters like a little girl* He is awful cute isn't he......*titters like a little girl*
Renvale999 05-21-07, 09:49 PM	He is awful cute isn't he......*titters like a little girl* Why do people make fun of me? I'm being serious...but whatever..
Lord_Steve 05-22-07, 03:30 PM	Rises from whatever he was doing before to show a bastardized portrait of Torm, complete with mustache, scars, eye patch and boobs. "Here ye go my friends!" Hangs the picture on the wall.
Arbourean 05-23-07, 12:54 AM	Torm is awesome. I wouldn't mind seeing him absorb Helm and become an intermediate or greater power.
BrennonGoldeye 05-23-07, 07:43 AM	Why do people make fun of me? I'm being serious...but whatever.. Come now Ren, so sensative. I can't help it I think Torm's sorta "titterworthy".:D
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 09:41 AM	Always liked Torm. Not as much as much as Mystra but he amuses me enough to intervene on his behalf. The rest might require exertion on my part but if Brennon is irritating you Renvale, just look up some of the elven titles for his master. His position, seen from the right perspective is at least as amusing as that of anyone serving Torm.
Renvale999 05-23-07, 09:50 AM	Come now Ren, so sensative. I can't help it I think Torm's sorta "titterworthy".:D I think the joke is completely lost to me, but that's nothing new...tittering is a nervous giggle...not really sure how that applies here...
BrennonGoldeye 05-23-07, 01:20 PM	I think the joke is completely lost to me, but that's nothing new...tittering is a nervous giggle...not really sure how that applies here... Ah, to have the ability to make my own emoticon. Lets just say I took Lady_Mhaor's titter as a sign of adoration. Mine was just the same. Torm's a hottie, a lawful:yuck: hottie, but a hottie none the less. Add the fact He actually acts like the God of Duty and He's every :cheer:'s ultimate prom date.:D Oh yeah, Karsus is not my master. He just happens to be my Regional Director. My Master slumbers still with an Avatar of The Lady watching over Him.
Mikayla 05-23-07, 01:32 PM	Who would I serve? Well, if you mean my player-character, then Lolth obviously (at least until my current character is no more). If you mean me, Mikayla, then I would directly serve Eilistraee I think - though I would offer respect and prayers to the other gods and goddesses in appropriate situations (asking Tymora for luck, paying respect to Umberlee before setting sail, etc.)
GothicDan 05-23-07, 01:34 PM	If Torm was a human on Earth, he'd be the captain of the football team and an Eagle Scout. I'd do 'em. Twice.
Mikayla 05-23-07, 01:57 PM	Yes, but Torm would be in the closet and after you two hooked up he would denounce all gay folks and seek legislation preventing you from rising past 10th level. Then you would "out" him, and he would go into rehab/atonement, and the only folks who would profit would be the Waterdeep tabloids.
GothicDan 05-23-07, 02:02 PM	I'm a physicist. We care not for society. "You are ghei?" "lawl yeah..." "Cool, can you pass me those Helmholtz coils, ***?" "Yeah." I do, however, care for quarterbacks.
Renvale999 05-23-07, 02:49 PM	I'm a physicist. We care not for society. "You are ghei?" "lawl yeah..." "Cool, can you pass me those Helmholtz coils, ***?" "Yeah." I do, however, care for quarterbacks. I wish there was a emote or smiley for squirming uncomfortably...that would be me right now lol.
GothicDan 05-23-07, 03:55 PM	... You aren't a quarterback, are you?
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 05:55 PM	Ah, to have the ability to make my own emoticon. Lets just say I took Lady_Mhaor's titter as a sign of adoration. Mine was just the same. Torm's a hottie, a lawful:yuck: hottie, but a hottie none the less. Add the fact He actually acts like the God of Duty and He's every :cheer:'s ultimate prom date.:D Oh yeah, Karsus is not my master. He just happens to be my Regional Director. My Master slumbers still with an Avatar of The Lady watching over Him. Brennon, is there anyone you report to that I do not oversee part or all of the security for?
Karsus the Mad 05-23-07, 06:03 PM	Oh yeah, Karsus is not my master. He just happens to be my Regional Director. My Master slumbers still with an Avatar of The Lady watching over Him. Auppenser? I'll talk to LK about that promotion.
Renvale999 05-23-07, 07:46 PM	... You aren't a quarterback, are you? I was one...so yeah I'm squirming uncomfortably lol.
Lady_Mhaor 05-23-07, 08:54 PM	On an unrelated note, Torm is a sexy beast
GothicDan 05-23-07, 09:01 PM	He is! Rawr.
BrennonGoldeye 05-24-07, 08:26 AM	Brennon, is there anyone you report to that I do not oversee part or all of the security for? Nope, I guess not. :globe: Auppenser? I'll talk to LK about that promotion. That's my Guy! I havn't visited His bedside in a bit, the Avatar that watches over Him is all that remains of M2, and She isn't that happy about the whole "Hand of Karsus" gig...:mage: I was one...so yeah I'm squirming uncomfortably lol. Sorry Ren. Dan and I promise to be nice.;) On an unrelated note, Torm is a sexy beast He is! Rawr. When he manifests my name magically changes to "Randy".:D
Renvale999 05-24-07, 09:53 AM	Nope, I guess not. :globe: That's my Guy! I havn't visited His bedside in a bit, the Avatar that watches over Him is all that remains of M2, and She isn't that happy about the whole "Hand of Karsus" gig...:mage: Sorry Ren. Dan and I promise to be nice.;) When he manifests my name magically changes to "Randy".:D Again, the whole squirming uncomfortably again LOL....but anyway to get the thread back on topic...Torm would be my first choice, although I have to say I think Lolth is really sexy in drow form...so even though I'm male, I'd think I'd submit to the will of the Spider Queen.
Alediran 05-24-07, 10:49 AM	Again, the whole squirming uncomfortably again LOL....but anyway to get the thread back on topic...Torm would be my first choice, although I have to say I think Lolth is really sexy in drow form...so even though I'm male, I'd think I'd submit to the will of the Spider Queen. Why do that when you can be with her daughter and with less danger for the spirit? :cool:
Soltares 05-24-07, 11:09 AM	Leira, for both layperson and clergy. I don't care if she's dead. Nobody will believe me anyway... Truthy Tyr just missed the point of honesty. Trust isn't something you give away to all and sundry, it's something you bestow on those that have earned it. Like all things, moderation is the key. Besides, 'a truth told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent.' As a Druid, I'd be torn, as I like aspects of Malar (nature, red in tooth and claw), Talos (thunderstorms!), Set (Eeeeeevil!), Aerdrie Faenya (where eagles dare), Angharradh (three, three, three goddesses in one!) and Deep Sashelas (born in the sight of water). Depends on my mood... Pity Auril doesn't count as a 'nature' god. She's also a fave. If I had to be a Paladin, it would be Torm. Tyr and Helm are dullsville.
Drew1369r 05-24-07, 03:26 PM	My two favorite gods... Tempus and Mask nothing more changing then what these two provide the realms
Lady_Mhaor 05-24-07, 06:36 PM	My two favorite gods... Tempus and Mask nothing more changing then what these two provide the realms I agree wholehearted I mean thieves and war. . .c'mon it doesn't get any better than that
Karsus the Mad 05-24-07, 09:30 PM	That's my Guy! I havn't visited His bedside in a bit, the Avatar that watches over Him is all that remains of M2, and She isn't that happy about the whole "Hand of Karsus" gig... Don't worry. Ioulaum is working on that (ya really think the second 41st level NPC is self contained?). He's already achieved 41 arcane levels (best level), and is already epic psionic (telepath 20th level). No need to fear lay offs. The Tripartite Karsi rewards generously. LK and I have everything ready. You'll be well compensated. Turn such false belief away from your soul. Auppenser dislikes Mystra's Ban as much as we do. By following the Karsite Philosophy, you fulfill Auppenser's goals....
Phoenix0124 05-24-07, 09:53 PM	Who would I worship? There are three that come to mind. Eilistraee, Mystra, and Waukeen. The pros are simple: Elistraee: If your a single male elf, your probably never be bored again when at the temples. ;) Mystra: You'll probably live for an awful long time in one shape or another and you have cool magic to keep you occupied. Waukeen: Who has the money, makes the rules. Any of thoses could be fun to play as a Cleric or even a Paladin (Which is probably my least favorite class, so yes, I don't like Torm.) I'll even add Mask to the list of deity to worship. Why do I add him? Because what's more fun then stealing from Paladins of Torm? Except maybe killing them. :D
GothWulf 05-24-07, 10:37 PM	I'll even add Mask to the list of deity to worship. Why do I add him? Because what's more fun then stealing from Paladins of Torm? Except maybe killing them. :D Weeeeellllll....I can think of one thing....:angelhide As for who I'd serve...well...my sig says it all ;) Wulfe
XHereticX 05-25-07, 10:59 PM	1. Torm, no question...I have a tatoo that reads "Duty" which means to me "Duty to one's country and one's family", nuff said. 2. Torm again, and Bane would be in for a surprise when I run my sword through him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! plz do so, then Asmodeus can absorb his divinity:devil:
ElberethSilverleaf 05-26-07, 12:32 AM	Yes, but Torm would be in the closet and after you two hooked up he would denounce all gay folks and seek legislation preventing you from rising past 10th level. Then you would "out" him, and he would go into rehab/atonement, and the only folks who would profit would be the Waterdeep tabloids. So true, So true! ROFL
The WarOverlord 05-26-07, 05:29 AM	Given the knowledge of the history and dogma of the Fearunian gods, which would you choose to serve: A) As a regular worshipper B) As a cleric/paladin/champion. Pro's and cons are welcome. A) The "Great Celestial Light" that is Overlord Ao's Master....lol B) Most of my PCs take a older and now immortal PC's "Avatar" known as "The Helm of White Dragonstar" as their Patron (It technically isn't the PC, and denies that it grants the spells prayed for up to 7th Level Clerical,9th Magic User, or Special Case spells/effects, but most consider that the former Pc's modesty) Pros on Ao's Boss: None can think off other then not having to bow to petty godlings Cons: Worshiping Ao's Boss might make the PC end up in the withering wall in the Fugue plane if It doesn't take supplecators...lol Pro on "Helm of White Dragonstar": Same as Pro on Ao's Boss (don't have to bow to petty godlings), as well as PC actually having a few Homeplanes (based on which version of the PC you are talking about) as well as Minions, place for worshippers etc as this PC is a overachiever that reached godhood 3 times, Overlordhood (like Ao) 2 times, and "Celestial Light" light Status effectively removing the PC from Time/Space (Yeah,yeah..probably should have retired the PC way before that...lol) Con: The "Helm" isn't actually the granter of the Spells, one of the many Greater god versions of the PC is, so they do little more then irritate the Helm with constant praises and prayers and are basically in the dark about afterlife perks that varies with which version of the PC is the real Patron (Being reborn a Dragon is the ultimate surprise)
GothWulf 05-26-07, 07:52 AM	[QUOTE=Zandilar;12453553]Heya, Selune has allies, not the least of which is Mystra, and that's quite probably the only reason Shar hasn't long since crushed her. QUOTE] Actually, this was kinda discussed a long time ago in a different thread...my opinion is that Shar simply CAN'T kill Her. <lots of different reasons for that, but Im not going to get into them unless you really want to...> Wulfe
MerrikCale 05-26-07, 11:30 PM	I would serve Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance
Zandilar 05-26-07, 11:49 PM	Heya, Actually, this was kinda discussed a long time ago in a different thread...my opinion is that Shar simply CAN'T kill Her. <lots of different reasons for that, but Im not going to get into them unless you really want to...> I think you're probably right there, though I don't know what reasoning you have behind it. :) One alternate theory I've played around with in my head is that Shar loves Selune intensely, so intensely that she's jealous of everything else in reality. It is for this reason that she wants to snuff it all out - so that all that is left is Selune and Shar, alone, together again for all eternity. (The side effect of this is, if Shar was ever in the position to deliver a killing blow to Selune, she wouldn't do it.)
GothWulf 05-26-07, 11:58 PM	Heya, I think you're probably right there, though I don't know what reasoning you have behind it. :) One alternate theory I've played around with in my head is that Shar loves Selune intensely, so intensely that she's jealous of everything else in reality. It is for this reason that she wants to snuff it all out - so that all that is left is Selune and Shar, alone, together again for all eternity. (The side effect of this is, if Shar was ever in the position to deliver a killing blow to Selune, she wouldn't do it.) My reasoning exactly....though when I first proposed it, you would not belive how hard it got slapped down. *chuckles* But like I said then, to TRUELY hate something, you must have first loved it...and then it all becomes twisted to where you would do anything to get it back. Wulfe
The WarOverlord 05-27-07, 03:19 AM	Heya, I think you're probably right there, though I don't know what reasoning you have behind it. :) One alternate theory I've played around with in my head is that Shar loves Selune intensely, so intensely that she's jealous of everything else in reality. It is for this reason that she wants to snuff it all out - so that all that is left is Selune and Shar, alone, together again for all eternity. (The side effect of this is, if Shar was ever in the position to deliver a killing blow to Selune, she wouldn't do it.) Without Darkness how do you know you have seen the light? Without Evil how do you measure what is good? Thing about Pantheons is that there are checks and balances for the most part between the portfolios and there might be some truth to the legend of Selune and Shar being "Twins" via a physical splitting of 1 being to represent 2 sides of Magic and Life and the Time/Space it effects...thus if Shar destroys Selune she is actually Destroying an aspect of herself and may well croak herself in the process. And though he may not appear at every switch of hands or Ascension physically, it seems the Warden, Lord Ao, would have to approve every power play...even if it's a casual "whatever" and would most likely stop anything that could majorly effect how things work in his Realmspace.
Zandilar 05-27-07, 04:47 AM	Heya, Without Darkness how do you know you have seen the light? Without Evil how do you measure what is good? Thing about Pantheons is that there are checks and balances for the most part between the portfolios and there might be some truth to the legend of Selune and Shar being "Twins" via a physical splitting of 1 being to represent 2 sides of Magic and Life and the Time/Space it effects...thus if Shar destroys Selune she is actually Destroying an aspect of herself and may well croak herself in the process. And though he may not appear at every switch of hands or Ascension physically, it seems the Warden, Lord Ao, would have to approve every power play...even if it's a casual "whatever" and would most likely stop anything that could majorly effect how things work in his Realmspace. Well the theory I proposed is just one alternate theory I have for Shar and Selune's endless "battle". Here's another one: Selune doesn't represent pure good - she's "tainted" with Chaos (ie: she's Chaotic Good) - Shar's actual equal and opposite at the moment is, in fact, Mystra or Lathander (Mystra is Neutral Good, is as strong as Shar, and controls the Weave (which is in opposition to Shar's Shadow Weave). Lathander, while not as strong as Shar, is associated with the Sun, he is Neutral Good, and is literally the god of beginings - plus he is male to Shar's female!). (Yep, I'm throwing that out there, I haven't really thought about it that deeply - so everyone feel free to pick that apart!) In truth though, going solely by what is presented in Faiths and Pantheons - Shar wants to destroy everything, including herself (She wants to return to "calm non-existance" as is stated in her entry). This means that she'll inevitably come into conflict with Ao, provided she's successful in destroying everything else... And if she is victorious over Ao, her last act will be to quietly snuff herself out.
captaincarot 05-27-07, 07:29 AM	if shar killed everything she wouldn't have any worshipers left so she would automatically kill herself. it is only through having worshipers that the gods gain their divine powers, that was the point of the time of troubles. the problem being she has to snuff out absoulutely everything while keeping her worshipers alive, if she misses one before she killes her last worshiper she will cease to exist. before everthing else does and fail.
Arbourean 05-27-07, 12:28 PM	Hence the ultimate pointlessness of evil. Still, Shar>>>all.
GothicDan 05-27-07, 01:34 PM	if shar killed everything she wouldn't have any worshipers left so she would automatically kill herself. it is only through having worshipers that the gods gain their divine powers, that was the point of the time of troubles. the problem being she has to snuff out absoulutely everything while keeping her worshipers alive, if she misses one before she killes her last worshiper she will cease to exist. before everthing else does and fail. Deities also gain power through their portfolios and dogmas being carried out. The loss of everything is a huge boost of power.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 03:16 PM	Please no one take this personally. (I say this 1st because there are weak egos who can't take what they see as a personal criticism) In my mind, someone who worships Shar, fully knowing her dogma and ultimate plan for Faerun & Toril has GOT to be a nut case! I can see worshipping Mask maybe, or nutty Cyric if you're evil, but Shar? I could see evil and good dieties getting their followers to at least temporarily cooperate to root out these nut jobs.
XHereticX 05-27-07, 03:17 PM	Please no one take this personally. (I say this 1st because there are weak egos who can't take what they see as a personal criticism) In my mind, someone who worships Shar, fully knowing her dogma and ultimate plan for Faerun & Toril has GOT to be a nut case! I can see worshipping Mask maybe, or nutty Cyric if you're evil, but Shar? I could see evil and good dieties getting their followers to at least temporarily cooperate to root out these nut jobs. Some people actually do perfer nihilism, as long as it is painless. As Issac Aasmiov once said: "Life is joyous, death is peaceful, it is the transition that is troublesome."
GothicDan 05-27-07, 04:30 PM	Note that Shar's philosophy isn't exactly nihilism, though. Google it you want. "Total end of the world destruction" is not what the nihilists wanted. It's more a state of being, of viewing life, than actually a goal you pursue. I've had characters of Shar (a Crusader [2E], and a Cleric), but I'd only give her worship as laymen. I'm way too much a combination of Epicureanism and Empiricism to worship her wholly. Actually, I probably would like Lliira more than I have always realized. I still think either a son of Milil and Sune or Lathander and Sune would sky rocket up to my favorite list of deities immediately.
Meldread 05-27-07, 08:23 PM	In my mind, someone who worships Shar, fully knowing her dogma and ultimate plan for Faerun & Toril has GOT to be a nut case! The followers of Shar are numerous and there is diversity among them, but I don't think you fully understand how Shar and her followers view the world. A Sharran prospective is something like this: Death for all living things is inevitable. Not even the divine are immune to this, as the time of troubles recently demonstrated. If you live, you will die - that is a certainty. Shar's main objective is to survive long enough to be there at the point when she, her last remaining followers, and a handful of other deities are all that is left. In an ideal scenario, Shar might see the greatly weakened Chauntea, Mystra and Selune as the last remaining deities, having consumed, slain or otherwise removed the others from the picture. A Sharran views the world as an evil thing - full of suffering, pain and loss. Life is an innately evil thing and it is merciful to snuff it out. After all, to live is to suffer and while your life may have its good moments it is ultimately pointless because in the end you will die and be forgotten. Therefore, it is pointless for you to hope and strive to better your lot in life - doing so will only lead to disappointment if you fail, and even if you are successful, you will still die in the end. Shar preys upon the negative emotions of others, and by far most of her followers serve her for this reason. Her followers work to undermine governments and local authorities because when there is less order people are more likely to turn to their baser instincts and emotions, thereby bringing pain and suffering to others, which can then in turn be harnessed to bring others closer to Shar. Shar looks for vengeance because when people turn to vengeance they bring pain and loss into the lives of others. Vengeance creates a cycle that serves to fuel Shar's power. The more you seek it, the more you harm others, and the closer all are brought to Shar. Shar preys upon bitterness because when you are bitter you are less compassionate and willing to help others, thereby allowing pain and suffering to occur around you - allowing others to be brought closer to Shar. Shar preys upon secrets because even a small secret can be manipulated into even greater secrets, until an individuals life is full of secrets and they are living a lie. They turn to Shar to guard those secrets, afraid of what would happen if others uncovered them. In the end, a Sharran views life as one might view a fire. It burns for as long as it has fuel, consuming everything in the process. However, inevitably, even the largest fire will run out of fuel and be snuffed out. Darkness is the natural state, the state from which the world emerged, and when fire (life) is finally extinguished, it will return to that state. It is an inevitable thing. The Sharran who sees this then turns to her for this very reason. After all, if her victory is inevitable do you wish to be on any other side? ---- Secondly, you should know how Shar views Selune. Understand that in the beginning Shar and Selune co-existed happily. They loved each other as sisters. However, Shar -is- darkness personified. Darkness itself is not evil, just as light itself is not good - it is likely in the beginning both deities were true neutral. It was not that Shar did not wish for life to exist, but that for the existence of life light was necessary - and light is antithetical to Shar's very existence. Light pushes back darkness, and it is for this reason that Shar and Selune did battle. Shar wanted to prevent Selune from bringing about light - because in the process it would harm her. Shar views the actions of Selune harmful and a deep betrayal. It was so deep, and she hates her so much, because she loved (and likely - in her own twisted way - still loves) her sister. Shar was not born an evil deity, but rather became one through bitterness and spite. In the end, it was Selune's actions that created the Shar that exists today. Shar if given the chance would not likely destroy Selune, because deep down - very deep down - she still loves her too deeply. No, Shar would much rather prefer for Selune to turn to her - to understand the world as she does, and embrace her in the way so many of her followers do. For her sister to repent the wrongs she has committed, and work with her to correct them - by ending all life and returning to the state before the betrayal occurred. Shar would do this in the same way, as she directs her followers to act as discussed above. She would cause Selune loss through killing her friends, her followers, taking away all things she cares for and forcing her to turn more and more to bitterness and hatred. What Shar does -not- understand is that Selune will -never- love her again, and in the end even if she is successful, resent her until her last moments. Shar is not the same being she was when they were close and therefore the bond they shared is broken - Shar's evil is directly tied to the memory and the pain of the bond they once shared. This is personally why I love Shar so much as a deity. She has emotional complexity and is almost Shakespearian in her tragedy – she loves her sister, but at the same time hates her for her betrayal. She would want nothing more than for her sister to understand her wrongs, admit to them, so that they can make up and once again share the bond they once shared. However, at the same time she is completely blind to what she has become, and has sank to depraved and evil actions in order to achieve something that is unachievable, and even if it were possible – by the very actions she commits in the attempt to bring it about, completely ensures that it will never happen. It completely matches Shar as a deity of loss, the loss of the very deep bond she once shared with her sister, and the very inability to exist and function with out it.
GothWulf 05-27-07, 08:53 PM	<snip> I still think either a son of Milil and Sune or Lathander and Sune would sky rocket up to my favorite list of deities immediately. You only say that because you would be the first to volenteer as "Divine Valet"...*grins* Wulfe
GothWulf 05-27-07, 09:00 PM	What Shar does -not- understand is that Selune will -never- love her again, and in the end even if she is successful, resent her until her last moments. Shar is not the same being she was when they were close and therefore the bond they shared is broken - Shar's evil is directly tied to the memory and the pain of the bond they once shared. . Actually, I disagree with this part, though the rest that I snipped was rather well thought out. I belive that Selune still loves Her sister, very deeply in fact...what She hates is Shar's actions, much like knowing that your beloved twin <which is what they are after all> is a serial-killer...you hate what they do, and in fact do anything within your power to stop it, even if it means killing them yourself....but you still love them. Wulfe
GothicDan 05-27-07, 09:12 PM	You only say that because you would be the first to volenteer as "Divine Valet"...*grins* Hush your mouth, boy!!
Meldread 05-27-07, 09:42 PM	I think you are true to a point Wulfe. I think Selune loves who her sister used to be, but realizes fully that her sister is no longer that person. I believe that she realizes that the sister she once loved is dead, and what has replaced her is a horrible, evil and depraved thing. She also likely feels responsible for the creation of what Shar has become, and because of that feels obligated to fight her - and protect others from her. She may not hate her, per-say, but hates what Shar has become. Selune like Shar may be loathed if given the opportunity to kill her - because she may also hope that her sister will see the error of her ways. Selune's prospective is something like this: It was necessary to bring about life. It was the right thing to do, and she wishes that she could have done it without bringing harm to her sister. However, there was just no way around it. If only Shar could understand that it was a small sacrifice to be made in order for a greater good to come about, things could be the way they once were. When Selune looks down upon Toril she sees the good in things. She sees people who are happy, who are prospering - she also sees the bad things, but likes to believe that the good outweighs the bad. By contrast when Shar looks down upon Toril she sees only the bad things. She makes note of the good things, but sees the pain and loss that mortals experience. She looks to her sister and wonders why she would hurt her, in order to bring life into existence - only so they could suffer - it is more merciful for them to die than to live. She also looks at those on Toril and is filled with jealousy and spite. What can they give Selune that she could not? What do they provide that she could not? Their very existence reminds her, endlessly, of the loss and pain she feels and she lashes out by harming and causing them pain. She wants -them- to suffer just as much as she has - it is -their- fault that Selune turned against her... and if only they were all dead, Selune would then be forced to turn back to her and things could be like they once were. When Shar lashes out against mortals, Selune tries to intervene, both out of guilt ("She is this way because I harmed her...") and out of compassion ("They don't deserve to be hurt...") This in turn fuels Shar's bitterness anew, and so the cycle continues endlessly. Selune might be persuaded to kill Shar, if she were ever in that position - but it is likely that it would morph her in the same way that Shar was morphed by the loss. As Selune stands over a defeated and defenseless Shar, she has to suppress all emotions - she has to forget what they once shared and give up all hope of rekindling it - and in so doing... she embraces all that Shar has become.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 10:18 PM	Well, I plan on running having fun running around naked in Arvandor/Olympus. Cavorting, reveling, learning new things. Bright sunlight and beautiful night skies for me...
Soltares 05-27-07, 10:30 PM	It seems to me that Shar considers everything from the warm, dark peace of the womb and the cold, dark peace of the grave to be too harsh, too loud, too bright and too full of pain. In surrender there is strength. From defeat, victory. In finality, peace. [Note, I sure don't go for that sort of thing, but as I GM'd a few Sharite NPCs, I had to be able to make them sound kinda bleak without sounding completely bugnuts, like a Nerull worshipper from that other setting. I'm not a big fan of 'bwa-ha-ha' Eeeeevil caricatures, and I prefer them to all *think* that there way is the best way, without having to turn them into raving fruitcakes.]
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 10:45 PM	I enjoy thinking "from the other's point of view" too. I can't stand card-board evil guys. Hitler was a vegetarian and loved pets....looked what he did.
Meldread 05-27-07, 10:50 PM	Well, I plan on running having fun running around naked in Arvandor/Olympus. Cavorting, reveling, learning new things. Bright sunlight and beautiful night skies for me... To which a Sharran uses the following logic: Forever is a long time. Sure, that sounds fun and all peaceful and such... for the first 100 years or so. However, what about 1,000 years? 100,000 years? 1,000,000 years? 100,000,000 years? 1,000,000,000 years? Or how about 1,000,000,000,000 years after I've been there? Compared to a peacefully slipping away into non-existence, once again merging with the darkness that gave birth to the world? Soltares- That's the best part about Sharran's. They aren't your typical 'evil villain'. Banites and Cyrists are normally pretty straight forward. It's all about power and conquering others. Sharrans are the real evil because their evil is the corrosive type that can corrupt even the most noblest of souls. In most cases, it happens with out them even realizing it.
GothicDan 05-27-07, 10:52 PM	To which a Sharran uses the following logic: Forever is a long time. Sure, that sounds fun and all peaceful and such... for the first 100 years or so. However, what about 1,000 years? 100,000 years? 1,000,000 years? 100,000,000 years? 1,000,000,000 years? Or how about 1,000,000,000,000 years after I've been there? Compared to a peacefully slipping away into non-existence, once again merging with the darkness that gave birth to the world? You merge with your deity after awhile, though, as a worshipper of any deity, unless that deity has othe rplans for you.
Soltares 05-27-07, 11:12 PM	Soltares- That's the best part about Sharran's. They aren't your typical 'evil villain'. Banites and Cyrists are normally pretty straight forward. It's all about power and conquering others. Sharrans are the real evil because their evil is the corrosive type that can corrupt even the most noblest of souls. In most cases, it happens with out them even realizing it. I vaguely recall Shar being described as the goddess of sorrow and loss, whose tenets appeal most directly to those who have loved and lost, or suffered great heartbreak or are in grieving. There's certainly not any shortage of such people, and a faith that preaches an end to pain, and quiet strength and acceptance in the face of the inevitable tragedies that life throws at one could certainly look appealing. And to the one who has loved and lost, how far a step is it to resenting the happy lovers across the way? How far a step is it to sabotaging their happiness, if only (rationalizing) to 'save them the inevitable pain' of heartbreak? By laughing and celebrating, they are only partying in the ashes, denying their fates and setting a poor example for everyone around them, perpetuating the eternal lie that life can end in other than loss and tragedy and heartbreak. Only in sober acceptance of one's fate is there wisdom, not in drunken oblivious revelry, like that of a Lliiran celebrant. Better to accept that early, and not live life blind to one's fate, the Sharran maintains, noting how the 'gods of light' ironically want their followers blind to the truth, living in some fantasy-land of delusion, while the goddess of the night is the one who opens eyes and shows the way to eternal peace...
Alediran 05-28-07, 01:32 AM	I hope you have some heavy arguments to try convincing me, I already choose what this elf is going to be.
XHereticX 05-28-07, 10:45 AM	To which a Sharran uses the following logic: Forever is a long time. Sure, that sounds fun and all peaceful and such... for the first 100 years or so. However, what about 1,000 years? 100,000 years? 1,000,000 years? 100,000,000 years? 1,000,000,000 years? Or how about 1,000,000,000,000 years after I've been there? Compared to a peacefully slipping away into non-existence, once again merging with the darkness that gave birth to the world? Soltares- That's the best part about Sharran's. They aren't your typical 'evil villain'. Banites and Cyrists are normally pretty straight forward. It's all about power and conquering others. Sharrans are the real evil because their evil is the corrosive type that can corrupt even the most noblest of souls. In most cases, it happens with out them even realizing it. Bascically Baneite=devils, cyricists=demons, Sharrans=loths And I love your view on Shar, it is so complex and intriguing and kind of reminds me of Dicefreaks's Mephistopheles, a lost, depressed, emotional deity who dosen't have a purpose beside to infect others with the betrayal and loss she suffered. It makes me wanna give her a hug for some reason.:weep: Selune however I think, would kill Shar if given the chance, for the greater good of life and the world, she would be willing to make that personal sacrifice. However, because of those flaws you pointed out, Shar is more like a victim rather than the villain in some ways and was most likely corrupted to her current evil state by something far more corrupt. Was it Tharizdun? Was it a Baernloth? I don't know...
MerrikCale 05-28-07, 12:20 PM	Well, I plan on running having fun running around naked in Arvandor/Olympus. great. now I can't go to Arvandor
GothicDan 05-28-07, 06:25 PM	I can!
Deren 05-29-07, 09:06 AM	Favourite gods: Uthgar, Shaundakul, Valkur and Ilmater. For me to worship: Would have to be Azuth cos he is kind of the god of geekery or Red Knight, cos tactics are where its at.
Elven Avenger 05-29-07, 02:13 PM	My favorite gods are The Seldarine and Silvanus. For me to worship...well If I could live in a wild place I would choose Silvanus for sure.
DojiHoturi 06-01-07, 10:30 PM	First off, I do not understand why people think they would get bored in Heaven (or whatever paradise they are thinking of). The whole point is that it would not ever get boring, otherwise it isnt really Heaven is it. Second off, I think the dogma of Shar is a sham, I believe they are hypocrits...It is like folks that live in thriving capitalist republics with all kinds of wonderful freedoms and technological toys and a home of their own on their own land, then whine about how much better it is in the People's Democratic Republic (North) Korea (or any other failing communist/socialist nation). "If it is so nice, why dont you go there?" I ask. "Because we are trying to spread the word of the virtues of communism," they say, while talking on their cellphone and typing on their laptop w/ wireless internet. Well, it is a little different, but you get what I am saying I hope. Now, on topic... I like Eilistraee. I would have to be a lay worshipper though...I do not have woman's parts and pieces. I also like Torm, Lathander, Ilmater, Tyr, Helm, Tempus, Tymora, Sune, and Selune. I think I would probably be a priest or paladin of Torm or Tyr, and a lay worshipper of the others. My sense of duty and justice have always been a bit overdeveloped. Also, in every 'what class would you be' test I have taken, I have come out as a Paladin. 2 pennies, Doji
Meldread 06-02-07, 08:23 AM	I do not understand why people think they would get bored in Heaven (or whatever paradise they are thinking of). The whole point is that it would not ever get boring, otherwise it isnt really Heaven is it. It depends on how you define it. FR wise, if you're stuck in your deities plane for thousands of years, only to be absorbed into the plane / into the deity... Eh, I don't see that big of difference from ending up being absorbed into the darkness that created the world / Shar - same end result. You no longer exist. I think the dogma of Shar is a sham, I believe they are hypocrits... I'm not sure how they are hypocrites... If they are preaching the dogma, and are actively serving Shar then they can't be hypocrites. To be a hypocrite you have to do one thing while saying or doing another. A hypocrite is someone who drinks and drives, while telling others not to drink and drive, or someone who preaches the virtues of celibacy while having sex. In FR terms, it is like a Paladin who is pretentious and believes in his own moral superiority, while actively condemning others who are pretentious and believe that they have a moral superiority. In a sense, a hypocrite sees certain flaws in others, but lacks the ability to correct their own. It normally arises in individuals with the inability to critically examine themselves or individuals who are in denial. However, it also arises from an inflated self-importance and a belief that one commands a higher moral ground, the Paladin above is a good example. In the end, a hypocrite has two rule sets, one that they use to measure themselves and another that they use to measure everyone else. This is what makes a hypocrite a hypocrite. I like Eilistraee. I would have to be a lay worshipper though...I do not have woman's parts and pieces. There are ways to fix that in the Realm's... I think I would probably be a priest or paladin of Torm or Tyr, and a lay worshipper of the others. My sense of duty and justice have always been a bit overdeveloped. Also, in every 'what class would you be' test I have taken, I have come out as a Paladin. I can imagine that. ;)
Sir Percival the Gallant 06-02-07, 09:09 PM	A. Lathander, Chauntea or possibly Sune. B. Torm.
Lady_Mhaor 06-02-07, 09:29 PM	all you paladin types are fouling up the air
GothicDan 06-02-07, 10:00 PM	Not nearly as much as the rogues. ;)
Lady_Mhaor 06-03-07, 12:51 AM	*sputters indignantly* Insolent cyric-spawned goat >.< paladins smell far worse
Zevox 06-03-07, 02:02 AM	all you paladin types are fouling up the air Us? Pah, last I checked it was you Rogues that spent too much time hiding in the gutter and not nearly enough in the bathtub :P . Zevox
DojiHoturi 06-04-07, 10:36 AM	Alright, You got me on the use of the term 'hypocrit'. I am sure there is a better word I am thinking of for it. Anyhow, essentially I am pointing out the irony that they want to destroy the world because of the pain it causes. In the process of destroying the world causes the most pain that could ever be produced. They are the worst sources of what they are trying to destroy. (Sorry, I am talking about Shar worshippers if you didnt catch on) I think that is lame... ...but that is me. Meldread, if I did not know better, I would say you knew me in RL. ;) And Paladins smell all nice and clean and fresh, to include the nice, clean, fresh scent of the blood of mine enemies spattered on my blade and armor. Too bad I cannot be a coed nekkid paladin of Eilistraee. That would be most excellent. I could be a trend setter. Rogues, well, they smell of, well, rogue things. I imagine it something along the vein of used Hockey or Football equipment that has not been properly cleaned or stored. It is about the closest thing to the smell of death without actually smelling a dead person, I think. 2 pennies, Doji
Meldread 06-04-07, 05:40 PM	You got me on the use of the term 'hypocrit'. I am sure there is a better word I am thinking of for it. How about irony? :P Sharrans are a twisted lot, no doubt about it, but that is what makes them interesting. What I think is important to remember is that while Shar promises to "numb" her followers to their pain and suffering, in reality she warps them into defining themselves by their pain, their bitterness, their hatred, and all other things that ruin their lives. She wants you to dwell on those emotions until they become your defining characteristics. It is a highly successful technique when used with subtle manipulation. After all, a follower of Cyric, Bane or Talos will most likely never successfully "break" a Paladin. A skilled Sharran, given the ability and opportunity can send a Paladin down a road of self-destruction. It is why I regard her as the most evil deity out of all the evil deities - her evil is subtle and more dangerous. It is not "in your face" like Cyric or Bane. It is the type of evil that ordinary people can be pulled into unaware... That is what makes a Sharran so dangerous.
faellamos 06-08-07, 08:20 AM	As for the question that started this thread: (A): Lathander. No question. Such a positive message, i love the Morninglord. Hell, his dogma is really something you can use and learn from in real life. It's how i try to live mine anyway. (B): Mystra. Since all my characters are mages or something equally interesting (i dont know how ne1 could be stay interested with a plain old fighter) i'd say Mystra would be the one. Also i agree with Meldread about Shar, she's the pinnacle of true evil. She's so wickedly sinister, she'll have your soul for breakfast without you even realising you lost it.
Lady_Mhaor 06-08-07, 08:43 AM	Why not Maskarran mages hmmm? hmmm? And rogues dont smell. . .well the good ones dont.. . we cant sneak up on our prey if we smell like wet death And as for shar, she's. . .scary as hell. . .her and her followers >.<
GothicDan 06-08-07, 12:19 PM	The idea of Maskarran mages makes me laugh. Rogues are utterly the most useless class at mid to high level, because mages can basically do everything they can, only better, making them utterly superfluous.
ShadezofDis 06-08-07, 12:39 PM	The idea of Maskarran mages makes me laugh. Rogues are utterly the most useless class at mid to high level, because mages can basically do everything they can, only better, making them utterly superfluous. Psh :p Rogues are pretty sweet at higher levels. It's all skill based but I'll take that. It's nice to be able to manipulate people without resorting to magic.
ShadezofDis 06-08-07, 12:40 PM	Also i agree with Meldread about Shar, she's the pinnacle of true evil. She's so wickedly sinister, she'll have your soul for breakfast without you even realising you lost it. Shar isn't evil, she's just a purist. :P
GothicDan 06-08-07, 01:27 PM	Rogues are pretty sweet at higher levels. It's all skill based but I'll take that. It's nice to be able to manipulate people without resorting to magic. Granted, I see why Rogues exist, and in such numbers: wizardry is freaking hard. But I don't shy away from the hard stuff. ;)
Zevox 06-08-07, 01:34 PM	The idea of Maskarran mages makes me laugh. Come on now Dan, you have a more creative mind than that. Is it so hard to believe that Mask may have some Arcane Tricksters and Illusionists worshiping him? Zevox
GothicDan 06-08-07, 02:29 PM	Oh, he certainly does! It was more a philosophical giggle than a realistic one. :)
ShadezofDis 06-08-07, 03:22 PM	Granted, I see why Rogues exist, and in such numbers: wizardry is freaking hard. Elitist :P But I don't shy away from the hard stuff. ;) Oh, I'm absolute sure of that.
XHereticX 06-08-07, 08:41 PM	I seriously cannot play a rogue. Spellcasters by far are my favorites and warriors are decent too. But rogues...no..., I always die with them.
Lady_Mhaor 06-08-07, 10:01 PM	But rogues are easy to play and survive :P all you need is a sharp wit and sharper daggers
Holy Warrior 06-09-07, 10:40 AM	A and B: Sune, Eilistraee or Lathander. though Sune would be my first choice.
Tyberian 06-09-07, 01:07 PM	After all, a follower of Cyric, Bane or Talos will most likely never successfully "break" a Paladin. Ever heard of Scyllua Darkhope? (spelling?)
BlackHalfDragon 06-09-07, 01:26 PM	In real life Catlick God is most like Illmater I think so prolly him. But probably Lovitar and be a Blackguard !! Like Mr T says; " I'll Introduce you to my friend PAIN!" "
Kelmech_Ra 06-10-07, 08:07 PM	Fenmarel Mestarine. He is the god of feral elves, scapegoats, and isolation. Auril would be another diety of choice. I've always had a thing for cold...
Renvale999 06-11-07, 12:52 PM	But rogues are easy to play and survive :P all you need is a sharp wit and sharper daggers Agreed, but for some reason, the rogues in my game end up becoming the second tanks...doesn't matter what player plays one, they all end up rushing into combat...lots of dead rogues in my game...guess that explains it lol :P
captaincarot 06-11-07, 01:10 PM	After all, a follower of Cyric, Bane or Talos will most likely never successfully "break" a Paladin. Ever heard of Scyllua Darkhope? (spelling?) the only problem with this theory is the bloke who first tipped her from good wasn't a banite but a disguised pit fiend, and his consort was a disguised erinyes. so thechnically a follower of bane or cyric or talos didn't do it.
Lady_Mhaor 06-11-07, 07:36 PM	But they could! Banites are cunnning enough to break them. . cyricist are far to slow and chaotic and talossans would never even bother
captaincarot 06-12-07, 02:37 AM	But they could! Banites are cunnning enough to break them. . cyricist are far to slow and chaotic and talossans would never even bother apart from the fact that their gods would probably give them a nice big gold star in their home work book for doing it.
ShadezofDis 06-12-07, 10:23 AM	But they could! Banites are cunnning enough to break them. . cyricist are far to slow and chaotic and talossans would never even bother Ummm. . . except each priest/priestess is an individual. Thus, there ARE cyricists who are cunning, quick, subtle and entirely more dangerous that the fools who get the press. and There are Talossans who are a bit more complex than "I like to blow stuff up!" Well, there should be anyhow. One last thing though, I'd put my money on the Pit Fiend (to corrupt a paladin) almost every time.
Lady_Mhaor 06-12-07, 12:45 PM	Ummm. . . except each priest/priestess is an individual. Thus, there ARE cyricists who are cunning, quick, subtle and entirely more dangerous that the fools who get the press. and There are Talossans who are a bit more complex than "I like to blow stuff up!" Well, there should be anyhow. One last thing though, I'd put my money on the Pit Fiend (to corrupt a paladin) almost every time. pfft cyricits cunning? pfffffffftttttt well of course some Talossans are cunning enough to convert, corrupt, a paladin I still just dont think they would bother and a pit fiend? that goes without saying
ShadezofDis 06-12-07, 02:07 PM	pfft cyricits cunning? pfffffffftttttt Hey now, I'm saying it's possible, not that it's likely. ;) well of course some Talossans are cunning enough to convert, corrupt, a paladin I still just dont think they would bother If it's a paladin of mystra or of any other god that Talos has a hate on for (which. . . is pretty much every god AFAIK) and a pit fiend? that goes without saying Sometimes, I've seen far too many pit fiends portrayed as Stupid Evil. :)
Lord Zeb 06-17-07, 05:05 PM	A. Oghma, Lathander, Tymora B. Oghma, Lathander, Tymora :cool: