Zodiac or....? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Zodiac or....? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
madoule
02-09-07, 07:13 PM I have a Cosmology and Star question...

Does Forgotten Realms have a Zodiac, or is it based on higher power deities?

In all my reading I never hear abou the stars or if there are formations based on deities, or something else in the realms. Why is this?

If there is such work, can some one point me to it?

The reason Why Im asking is that Im making some star maps, as part as a puzzel and realized that I knew nothing about the stars in this setting. Can some one help?

Thanks in advance.
Mulan Rogue
02-10-07, 03:40 AM I asked my DM this before and he pulled out an answer from Ed himself saying no theres no zodiac. Crap huh?
Besshalar
02-10-07, 03:51 AM There's an old spacejammer source that I think might have some starmaps in it . I can't for the life of me remember what the product was called but it detailed realmspace quite a bit.
madoule
02-12-07, 05:42 PM Space jammer? Wow it seems that its very odd to say the least that realms folk dont look at the sky? Some how I find this odd, and doesn't make sense. Why dont they have star maps? Does anyone care about this issue? Its huge in my book, and lacks a sense of realisim that the rest of the realm has. This is an issue that needs to be fixed, and as such since there is no soure material other than space jammer, which i think they have some older books on this site? Ill be doing a detailed search for this on the web, if I dont find the answers im looking for I will make one up then.

I will keep comming back for support and help if any one has ideas or things I should be looking for? Thanks guys
madoule
02-12-07, 06:59 PM Well, For the last few hours I have done some reading up on realmspace, and Spell jammer. For what it was worth it was intresting, but lacked from my basic preview the questions I am asking.

I got to read alot about other worlds, but the fundamental over-reaching goal for me was to see if there was some sort of star constilations attributed to the realms calander, a zodiac if you will.

Even on this website there was little, to no information about this.

So, as planned It seems that I am at a impass, and now need suggestions to remedy this.

So, im now going to re-frase the debate.

Q: Since there is no "Zodiac" or star clusters associated with month in the realm calander, what suggestions or ideas do you have that I could use to make one?

For example, do you think major gods should be associated with a certain month? It would make sense since certain dates are considered holy days by certain religons in the realms, and there fore we can associate a god for that month?

Other ideas?

Thanks
Zevox
02-12-07, 08:03 PM Perhaps, since in the Realms the Gods are given such importance, people have never felt any need to look at stars as anything special. Particularly given the lack of any deity of the stars - we've got several Goddesses of the Moon, many Gods of the Sun or some aspect of it, and a Goddess of Darkness (the void), but nobody associated with stars. Since the mortals of the Realms turn to the Gods for their beliefs about the multiverse, their existence, and so on, they've probably never cared much about the stars themselves (besides, when theres magic available to them that can send them to other planes of existence, planar travel is likely to be far more interesting to the intellectuals around the Realms than staring at some lights in the sky).

And to be perfectly honest, I've always wondered what the ancients in our world were smoking when they thought up their constellations. Orion is about the only one I can see looking anything like what its is supposed to look like myself, and even that one is iffy beyond the torso. Never made any sense to me.

Zevox
BrennonGoldeye
02-12-07, 08:36 PM The only things I have seen are the info on page 231 of the FRCS. They descibe Selune, the Tears, and the 8 planets. They are Anadia(amber with green at the poles), Coliar(steaked white with stormclouds), Abeir-Toril(:globe: ), Karpri(blue with ice caps), Chandos(best descibed as camo), Glyth(gray, with rings and 3 moons), Garden(green speck), and finally H'Catha(White and huge even at its distance). Add the "King-killer" star and thats all I know of. Everybody concentrate on Old Sage and maybe he will pop up and enlighten us.:)

Orion is about the only one I can see looking anything like what its is supposed to look like myself, and even that one is iffy beyond the torso. Never made any sense to me.

Once I read the Dragonlance Saga Orion became Raistlin's Hourglass.
madoule
02-12-07, 08:55 PM Zevox makes some good points about this subject, but I will have to contest that it doesn't make sense from a logical stand point why there are no constellations in forgotten realms setting.

Why? Well look at the imperical evidence, that being wizards have observatories and astrolabes, and to sail around the seas, you will need some point of reference (ie stars) to guide you on your way. Also, looking at the symbolisim of the gods, many have stars in them (mystra) or elude to their nature as from this realm. Also, astronomy isn't just about stars, its about moons, and other objects in the sky, something the realms people have a great deal of affinity for (Moon goodess, sun etc).

Its a small detail to overlook, but one I find that almost all game settings are lacking. Heck you could come up with a complete source book just from mythos and other things that orginated from stars, worship of heavenly bodies and what not.

But from a simplistic point of view I can understand Zevox's point why no major worship of stars, but find the lack of information on the subject is quite perplexing. Even if one aspect of the population didn't venerate or worship stars There are more than enough sects and different races in the realms that one of them would have. All it is is a minor overlook by the authors part but should be fixed.
Aegis_Chiron
02-23-07, 02:25 PM "In the skies over Waterdeep, the stars winking into view were the first heralds of the wintertime constellations: Auril Frostmaker, White Dragon, and the Elfmaid's Tears" - Dream Spheres by Elaine Cunningham (Chapter 1)

That's all I know of Forgotten realms star charts...

Hope it helps
Faraer
02-23-07, 05:39 PM There certainly are constellations -- here's (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/stars.htm) a webpage compiling information on them. They just aren't identified in mainstream Faerūnian religion with the gods, though they have religious associations and portents among sky-gazers and mystics, and among animist cultures such as the Bedine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
madoule 02-09-07, 07:13 PM	I have a Cosmology and Star question... Does Forgotten Realms have a Zodiac, or is it based on higher power deities? In all my reading I never hear abou the stars or if there are formations based on deities, or something else in the realms. Why is this? If there is such work, can some one point me to it? The reason Why Im asking is that Im making some star maps, as part as a puzzel and realized that I knew nothing about the stars in this setting. Can some one help? Thanks in advance.
Mulan Rogue 02-10-07, 03:40 AM	I asked my DM this before and he pulled out an answer from Ed himself saying no theres no zodiac. Crap huh?
Besshalar 02-10-07, 03:51 AM	There's an old spacejammer source that I think might have some starmaps in it . I can't for the life of me remember what the product was called but it detailed realmspace quite a bit.
madoule 02-12-07, 05:42 PM	Space jammer? Wow it seems that its very odd to say the least that realms folk dont look at the sky? Some how I find this odd, and doesn't make sense. Why dont they have star maps? Does anyone care about this issue? Its huge in my book, and lacks a sense of realisim that the rest of the realm has. This is an issue that needs to be fixed, and as such since there is no soure material other than space jammer, which i think they have some older books on this site? Ill be doing a detailed search for this on the web, if I dont find the answers im looking for I will make one up then. I will keep comming back for support and help if any one has ideas or things I should be looking for? Thanks guys
madoule 02-12-07, 06:59 PM	Well, For the last few hours I have done some reading up on realmspace, and Spell jammer. For what it was worth it was intresting, but lacked from my basic preview the questions I am asking. I got to read alot about other worlds, but the fundamental over-reaching goal for me was to see if there was some sort of star constilations attributed to the realms calander, a zodiac if you will. Even on this website there was little, to no information about this. So, as planned It seems that I am at a impass, and now need suggestions to remedy this. So, im now going to re-frase the debate. Q: Since there is no "Zodiac" or star clusters associated with month in the realm calander, what suggestions or ideas do you have that I could use to make one? For example, do you think major gods should be associated with a certain month? It would make sense since certain dates are considered holy days by certain religons in the realms, and there fore we can associate a god for that month? Other ideas? Thanks
Zevox 02-12-07, 08:03 PM	Perhaps, since in the Realms the Gods are given such importance, people have never felt any need to look at stars as anything special. Particularly given the lack of any deity of the stars - we've got several Goddesses of the Moon, many Gods of the Sun or some aspect of it, and a Goddess of Darkness (the void), but nobody associated with stars. Since the mortals of the Realms turn to the Gods for their beliefs about the multiverse, their existence, and so on, they've probably never cared much about the stars themselves (besides, when theres magic available to them that can send them to other planes of existence, planar travel is likely to be far more interesting to the intellectuals around the Realms than staring at some lights in the sky). And to be perfectly honest, I've always wondered what the ancients in our world were smoking when they thought up their constellations. Orion is about the only one I can see looking anything like what its is supposed to look like myself, and even that one is iffy beyond the torso. Never made any sense to me. Zevox
BrennonGoldeye 02-12-07, 08:36 PM	The only things I have seen are the info on page 231 of the FRCS. They descibe Selune, the Tears, and the 8 planets. They are Anadia(amber with green at the poles), Coliar(steaked white with stormclouds), Abeir-Toril(:globe: ), Karpri(blue with ice caps), Chandos(best descibed as camo), Glyth(gray, with rings and 3 moons), Garden(green speck), and finally H'Catha(White and huge even at its distance). Add the "King-killer" star and thats all I know of. Everybody concentrate on Old Sage and maybe he will pop up and enlighten us.:) Orion is about the only one I can see looking anything like what its is supposed to look like myself, and even that one is iffy beyond the torso. Never made any sense to me. Once I read the Dragonlance Saga Orion became Raistlin's Hourglass.
madoule 02-12-07, 08:55 PM	Zevox makes some good points about this subject, but I will have to contest that it doesn't make sense from a logical stand point why there are no constellations in forgotten realms setting. Why? Well look at the imperical evidence, that being wizards have observatories and astrolabes, and to sail around the seas, you will need some point of reference (ie stars) to guide you on your way. Also, looking at the symbolisim of the gods, many have stars in them (mystra) or elude to their nature as from this realm. Also, astronomy isn't just about stars, its about moons, and other objects in the sky, something the realms people have a great deal of affinity for (Moon goodess, sun etc). Its a small detail to overlook, but one I find that almost all game settings are lacking. Heck you could come up with a complete source book just from mythos and other things that orginated from stars, worship of heavenly bodies and what not. But from a simplistic point of view I can understand Zevox's point why no major worship of stars, but find the lack of information on the subject is quite perplexing. Even if one aspect of the population didn't venerate or worship stars There are more than enough sects and different races in the realms that one of them would have. All it is is a minor overlook by the authors part but should be fixed.
Aegis_Chiron 02-23-07, 02:25 PM	"In the skies over Waterdeep, the stars winking into view were the first heralds of the wintertime constellations: Auril Frostmaker, White Dragon, and the Elfmaid's Tears" - Dream Spheres by Elaine Cunningham (Chapter 1) That's all I know of Forgotten realms star charts... Hope it helps
Faraer 02-23-07, 05:39 PM	There certainly are constellations -- here's (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/stars.htm) a webpage compiling information on them. They just aren't identified in mainstream Faerūnian religion with the gods, though they have religious associations and portents among sky-gazers and mystics, and among animist cultures such as the Bedine.