4E: Handy Handbooks [Archive] - Wizards Community

4E: Handy Handbooks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
White_Wizard
09-18-07, 05:59 AM Ok, I wasn't sure where to open this thread. On one side I see that most (if not all) 4E threads are in FR General, but this thread could be strongly tied with Faerunian People and Places, because it will speak about NPCs.

I was thinking that it wouldn't be bad if they published, along with the incoming 4E a FR handbook devoted to NPCs: a complete list of major and minor characters with stats, history and so on. And I wasn't thinking about the usual offiacial NPC write-ups (which are usually made with core-only material and with close observance of NPC treasure level possessions). I'm speaking of write ups made with non-core material if needed (PrCs, magic items, feats - obviously I'm referring to 3.x terms because I've no idea of what will be used in 4E, just to give the idea).
I'm speaking of having the novel authors involved in the creation of the write-ups.

A whole book devoted to NPCs from the novels. Bad idea or good one?
Karsus the Mad
09-18-07, 07:25 AM I'd prefer something like this if it doesn't have full writeups (those are annoying, take up way too much space, and invariably are so full of flaws that a DM has to redo them anyway. In short, complete waste). A simple Race/Alignment/class line with the only mechanics being any unique special abilities and/or unique items known to be in the possession of said npc. That'd leave much more room for background information of the npc.
Something along the lines of 2e's Heroes and Villians Lorebooks (combined tho') with better art.
Faraer
09-18-07, 10:53 AM I would mix prominent novel characters with less prominent ones, characters mentioned or alluded to in sourcebooks, and brand new individuals and groups, including potential PC rivals and foes. That would maximize the book's versatility and appeal. There are lessons to be taken from FR7 and the Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks.

3E-length stats for characters PCs likely won't interact with in rules terms would obviously be a ridiculous waste of space.
Lord Karsus
09-18-07, 06:53 PM -If you are looking for a listing of NPCs, take a look at Kuje's compilation of FR NPCs. Sure, it's mostly in 2e format, with the 3e conversion currently being worked out, but NPCs don't really change, more or less- especially the more obscure ones.
Ranger REG
09-19-07, 02:09 AM A whole book devoted to NPCs from the novels. Bad idea or good one?
If the NPC stats is based on story characters as well as iconics (from Ed Greenwood's own FR campaign), then I have to say NO. :noway:

I don't like players trying to size up against NPC iconics thinking they can and will beat them someday. I'm experiencing far too many vocal resentment toward Elminster and Drizzt. They may be few but they were certainly LOUD.

Each DM have a responsibility to make it their own FR campaign regardless of Ed's or WotC's vision for the world. THEIR OWN ... to play with. I don't like diluting my campaign by having iconics appearing in what is to be the player's game. The player's PCs are the "stars" of the game.
White_Wizard
09-19-07, 06:04 AM In fact 2E handbooks like Villains lorebook and (mainly) Hall of Heroes gave me the idea of a similar handbook with the incoming 4E.
Obviously the goal shouldn't be overshadowing PCs, because they are the one and only(s). Basically such a handbook should provide 1) quick reference stats (not too detailed), 2) rare and even unique magic items, 3) detailed history, background and timelines and maybe 4) a selection of feats and PrCs from novel characters, usable by the PCs.

The reasons are (numbered for easy reference): 1) NPC stats are useful for short combat scenes where the PCs can fight alongside their heroes or against their nemesis (I know players tend to become strongly competitive in such cases, but they also tend to have fun); of course such stats should be carefully considered by the DM so the PCs are not overshadowed if they fight alongside a Drizzt or Elminster. Overshadowing is mainly a DM problem to solve: I had to introduce Drizzt as a NPC on my players' request and I did him at a more than decent level of power, but I played him in ways that he was simply helping PCs, rather than solving matters for them.
2) rare magic items can be useful as treasure for PCs and as base for creation of new ones (a character like Jarlaxle could provide an entire section with ideas and funny non-conventional magic items).
3) background informations are for pure entertainment, but a detailed timeline could be dread useful.
4) New feats and PrCs can add a huge bonus to such a handbook, because it is what many players want: how many drizzt-like character are made? How many Erevis Cales/Pharauns etc. are created? Also feats and PrCs can be used to create entirely new character types.

Also, while I was writing this very reply, it occurred to me that such a handbook could include maps of novel locations (both city maps, like Mithral Hall and adventure squared maps, like Castel Perilious).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
White_Wizard 09-18-07, 05:59 AM	Ok, I wasn't sure where to open this thread. On one side I see that most (if not all) 4E threads are in FR General, but this thread could be strongly tied with Faerunian People and Places, because it will speak about NPCs. I was thinking that it wouldn't be bad if they published, along with the incoming 4E a FR handbook devoted to NPCs: a complete list of major and minor characters with stats, history and so on. And I wasn't thinking about the usual offiacial NPC write-ups (which are usually made with core-only material and with close observance of NPC treasure level possessions). I'm speaking of write ups made with non-core material if needed (PrCs, magic items, feats - obviously I'm referring to 3.x terms because I've no idea of what will be used in 4E, just to give the idea). I'm speaking of having the novel authors involved in the creation of the write-ups. A whole book devoted to NPCs from the novels. Bad idea or good one?
Karsus the Mad 09-18-07, 07:25 AM	I'd prefer something like this if it doesn't have full writeups (those are annoying, take up way too much space, and invariably are so full of flaws that a DM has to redo them anyway. In short, complete waste). A simple Race/Alignment/class line with the only mechanics being any unique special abilities and/or unique items known to be in the possession of said npc. That'd leave much more room for background information of the npc. Something along the lines of 2e's Heroes and Villians Lorebooks (combined tho') with better art.
Faraer 09-18-07, 10:53 AM	I would mix prominent novel characters with less prominent ones, characters mentioned or alluded to in sourcebooks, and brand new individuals and groups, including potential PC rivals and foes. That would maximize the book's versatility and appeal. There are lessons to be taken from FR7 and the Heroes' and Villains' Lorebooks. 3E-length stats for characters PCs likely won't interact with in rules terms would obviously be a ridiculous waste of space.
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 06:53 PM	-If you are looking for a listing of NPCs, take a look at Kuje's compilation of FR NPCs. Sure, it's mostly in 2e format, with the 3e conversion currently being worked out, but NPCs don't really change, more or less- especially the more obscure ones.
Ranger REG 09-19-07, 02:09 AM	A whole book devoted to NPCs from the novels. Bad idea or good one? If the NPC stats is based on story characters as well as iconics (from Ed Greenwood's own FR campaign), then I have to say NO. :noway: I don't like players trying to size up against NPC iconics thinking they can and will beat them someday. I'm experiencing far too many vocal resentment toward Elminster and Drizzt. They may be few but they were certainly LOUD. Each DM have a responsibility to make it their own FR campaign regardless of Ed's or WotC's vision for the world. THEIR OWN ... to play with. I don't like diluting my campaign by having iconics appearing in what is to be the player's game. The player's PCs are the "stars" of the game.
White_Wizard 09-19-07, 06:04 AM	In fact 2E handbooks like Villains lorebook and (mainly) Hall of Heroes gave me the idea of a similar handbook with the incoming 4E. Obviously the goal shouldn't be overshadowing PCs, because they are the one and only(s). Basically such a handbook should provide 1) quick reference stats (not too detailed), 2) rare and even unique magic items, 3) detailed history, background and timelines and maybe 4) a selection of feats and PrCs from novel characters, usable by the PCs. The reasons are (numbered for easy reference): 1) NPC stats are useful for short combat scenes where the PCs can fight alongside their heroes or against their nemesis (I know players tend to become strongly competitive in such cases, but they also tend to have fun); of course such stats should be carefully considered by the DM so the PCs are not overshadowed if they fight alongside a Drizzt or Elminster. Overshadowing is mainly a DM problem to solve: I had to introduce Drizzt as a NPC on my players' request and I did him at a more than decent level of power, but I played him in ways that he was simply helping PCs, rather than solving matters for them. 2) rare magic items can be useful as treasure for PCs and as base for creation of new ones (a character like Jarlaxle could provide an entire section with ideas and funny non-conventional magic items). 3) background informations are for pure entertainment, but a detailed timeline could be dread useful. 4) New feats and PrCs can add a huge bonus to such a handbook, because it is what many players want: how many drizzt-like character are made? How many Erevis Cales/Pharauns etc. are created? Also feats and PrCs can be used to create entirely new character types. Also, while I was writing this very reply, it occurred to me that such a handbook could include maps of novel locations (both city maps, like Mithral Hall and adventure squared maps, like Castel Perilious).