Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ephealy 04-16-07, 06:14 AM	I'm looking to properly place an adventure. Unfortunately, my Realms-foo is not very strong... I generally stick to Greyhawk. I'm hoping some of you kind folks can help steer me in the right direction. NOTE: For those familiar with Greyhawk, I need a location similar to White Plume Mountain / Iggwilv's Lost Caverns of Tsocjanth. Here's what I need: - In / near a border area between two countries that are in a state of tension (either hot or cold war). A conflict between these two states could be recent or active, but if the conflict is active, the location should be as close to the border region as possible. - I'd prefer a castle / keep / stronghold that was used at some time by a powerful magician of some sort. If this person had "questionable ethics," all the better. - A location that hasn't appeared in a published adventure (by WotC or Dungeon Magazine) in the last two or three years. A short description of the site's use (background info to help narrow suggestions): The site needs to be relatively vacant, so that in the adventure background I can stipulate it's attempted take-over (by one of the warring states or a powerful organization with an axe to grind against one of the nearby states, for instance). I hope I've not been too vague, but provided enough info. Thanks in advance for any help.
Stigger 04-16-07, 07:47 AM	Not being too familiar with Greyhawk, I can't really provide much for those two refereces. However, going off the other stuff, I suppose I have a few suggestions. The border region of Southeastern Tethyr and Mintar, though the opposing armies in the area might be a problem. Take a look at Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea for 2e for a semi-detailed look at the region, though it is fairly out of date by now. Should at least provide some geography and basic outline of the conflict. Lands of Intrigue should be available on the main WotC site under older edition downloads, and Empires should be available as a PDF at your favorite online gaming site. In the same sort of region, you could try the northeastern border of Tethyr and Amn, since the region recently seceeded itself to Tethyr and is of course a source of tension. Same with the Southwestern border of Tethyr with Calimshan. Should all be in the Lands of Intrigue download, if memory serves. Tethyr's got a lot of problems on its borders really... but the whole region used to belong to Calimshan and the current leader seems to have designs on getting some of it back, so could be a decent plot hook. In other regions, you could try the border of Cormyr and Sembia, which should be somewhat detailed in Volo's Guide to Cormyr, again available on the WotC site if I recall correctly. Not a very detailed and somewhat unpopulated region I think, so could be good for your purposes. And you have some historic tension over the area as well, since both sides are kinda hazy on where the border begins precisely, at least I seem to recall reading that somewhere. Could always try Raven's Bluff and Tantras as well, they're both city-states in the Vast with some historic rivalry or other you could exploit a bit. The Living City of Raven's Bluff goes into it kinda vaguely, which should be available as a PDF somewhere. Don't think its a terribly hot rivalry, but DM's Fiat can always change that one nicely. Triboar and Red Larch I think have some pretty intense competition, mostly stemming from their rivalry with the local guide business. They're situated in the North, and you should be able to find information on them in The Savage Frontier, The North, and Volo's Guide to the North, which are all available on the WotC site, I think. Both are towns, not terribly large, so they could serve pretty well if you want a sparsely populated area and not having to deal with major armies coming to blows. Mulhorand and Thay of course... well, Thay and any of its neighbors really if you want to ignore the whole Enclave thing. The Unapproachable East details that, but I don't think its in print any longer, so you might have to turn to the 2e Spellbound PDF to find much information on the area... which could be kinda good if you want to ignore some of the recent developments in the region and keep your players at least a little surprised if any of them have read UE. There are quite a few others I'm sure, but those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head. Good luck with it though. :)
Karsus the Mad 04-16-07, 02:29 PM	Does it have to be a canon location? If not, I have something that might work for you. It's located between the Empire of Shade and Cormyr, with everything that entails. Varanor's Holding: This nondescript keep located in the Desertmouth mountains between Cormyr and the Anauroch desert was once the home of Varanor of Spiel. Varanor was a rather unknown, yet talented arcanist who spent his early life in the flying city of Spiel. Varanor took advantage of Spiel's abundance of universities, learning everything he could, but focusing his interest in the darker arts of necromancy. After several decades, feeling he had learned everything he could, Varanor left his home in search of greater necromantic secrets. This, of course, brought him to the attention of Aumvor the Undying. Aumvor took Varanor in as an apprentice, teaching him the greatest secrets of the foul Art, and inwardly gloating as to his own ability as a tutor. Varanor eventually left Aumvor's tutalage to set up his own demesne. Varanor magically created his keep via powerful magics and claimed mastery over the surrounding region. Over time Varanor began withdrawing further and further into his necromantic studies, ever trying to find the keys to mortality and unlife (a fascination he garnered from his years under Aumvor). He had entire caverns carved out from the hill on which his keep stood, filling them with laboratories, torture chambers, and every manner of foul creature of undeath he created and experimented upon. When the Fall of Netheril happened, Varanor's longevity magic failed spectacularly. His mortal frame, already brimming with the life energy he had been leeching from his living zombies, blasted appart and destroyed much of the above ground portion of his lair. Varanor's soul however was forever imprinted in the vile tunnels beneath his hold, where to this day he seeks release.
ephealy 04-16-07, 02:41 PM	Does it have to be a canon location? Canon would be best, yes.
ephealy 04-16-07, 04:35 PM	- I'd prefer a castle / keep / stronghold that was used at some time by a powerful magician of some sort. If this person had "questionable ethics," all the better. The above element is also important, but I suppose I can fudge some more backstory if the need arises. Thanks for the suggestions!
Karsus the Mad 04-16-07, 08:19 PM	Canon would be best, yes. Hmmm....not many around that's not either taken over by something big and scary, or in which the original mage is still there...<picks brain and finds cobwebs> The above element is also important, but I suppose I can fudge some more backstory if the need arises. Thanks for the suggestions! Actually, in one of the Elminster novels (Temptation of Elminster) one of the scenarios take place in one of Karsus's many strongholds in which he stored clones and magic items. There wasn't much of a keep left other than the stone structure itself, but underneath (accessible via the well) was a cavern where the rotting remains of one of Karsus's clones, and a horde of magic items and such. - In / near a border area between two countries that are in a state of tension (either hot or cold war). Check. Can't remember exactly where it's at, but I'd assume it'd be somewhere around Anauroch, and Shade Enclave has tensions with...everyone. - I'd prefer a castle / keep / stronghold that was used at some time by a powerful magician of some sort. If this person had "questionable ethics," all the better. Check. It's a keep (and underground cavern). Karsus definitely qualifies as having been a powerful magician. And he most definitely had questionable ethics. - A location that hasn't appeared in a published adventure (by WotC or Dungeon Magazine) in the last two or three years. Check. Only time it's ever appeared (as far as I'm aware) has been in the novel.
ephealy 04-17-07, 10:48 AM	Actually, in one of the Elminster novels (Temptation of Elminster) one of the scenarios take place in one of Karsus's many strongholds in which he stored clones and magic items. There wasn't much of a keep left other than the stone structure itself, but underneath (accessible via the well) was a cavern where the rotting remains of one of Karsus's clones, and a horde of magic items and such. If anyone could verify the location of this tower, I'd be most grateful. Assuming there is some political instability in the area, it sounds like just what I need! Thanks.
Karsus the Mad 04-17-07, 11:11 AM	PM'd Sage and asked. If anyone knows, it's that chap:)
Old Sage 04-18-07, 08:48 AM	I apologise for not seeing this thread earlier... Karsus's repository does in fact appear in Temptation of Elminster -- the second part of the novel, as I recall. It's location was in or around Starmantle, given the information presented in the chapter.
ephealy 04-18-07, 10:50 AM	Karsus's repository does in fact appear in Temptation of Elminster -- the second part of the novel, as I recall. It's location was in or around Starmantle, given the information presented in the chapter. I'd like to learn more about its supposed location. If I could get my hands on Temptation of Elminster, I would. Unfortunately, I'm in Iraq and don't have access to a library :( I do, however, have some FRCS sourcebooks here. If you're certain Starmantle is the area, I could always look into that location. Any bibliographic notes (where I could read about Starmantle) for sourcebooks would be nice. A book that has a map of the area (where is Starmantle?) would also be good.
Old Sage 04-18-07, 10:59 AM	Both Paul Kemp's Twilight Falling and Dawn of Night also feature lore on Starmantle, as well as a map. See also Pirates of the Fallen Stars and Sea of Fallen Stars, which have some lore, as does 2e's Vilhon Reach -- which is available as a free PDF download (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads) at WotC. Starmantle is also marked on the map in Vilhon Reach. Starmantle itself sits just north of the Gulthmere Forest on the southern shore of the Sea of Fallen Stars.
Karsus the Mad 04-18-07, 11:32 AM	Whoa...I was wayyyyyyyy off in my guessing an approximate location:embarrass I figured in or around the High Forest as a possible location as I remember El popping into a forest when leaving the underground cavern and given that the big K was associated with that region. However, looking at the map, there's a nice big forest right there next to Starmantle. Plopping the location down south-ish of Starmantle would put it in the proper setting the book described, and what Old Sage said above, it is likely the most accurate location for the place. Definite kiitos Old Sage:tiphat: <marks location on wall map>
ephealy 04-18-07, 12:50 PM	Karsus's Repository sounds obscure enough to be useful. I'm going to summarize what you've both told me, and ask a huge favor... be warned! Karsus's Repository - Karsus stronghold - stored clones and magic items - one of the clones was there, rotting - the above-ground structure is nothing special - the underground area is reached via a well - in or around Starmantle Sources: Temptation of Elminster Starmantle - just north of Gulthmere Forest - southern shore of Sea of Fallen Stars - map of Starmantle found in one of Paul Kemp's novels. - Starmantle's placement can be found on the Vilhon Reach map Sources: Twilight Falling, Dawn of Night, Pirates of the Fallen Stars, Sea of Fallen Stars, Vilhon Reach Now, I've got Pirates of the Fallen Stars and Vilhon Reach. I haven't found anything in the former, though I admit I haven't read the entire book yet. In the latter, I've found incidental information, but nothing solid. If you can think of any other source material on Karsus's Repository or Starmantle, please let me know. Here's the "huge favor": Would either of you be willing to peruse Temptation of Elminster and create some crib notes on Karsus's Repository? If I'm going to use it, I'd like to stay as true to the original source as possible.
MarkusTay63 04-18-07, 03:14 PM	Mulhorand and Thay of course... well, Thay and any of its neighbors really if you want to ignore the whole Enclave thing. The Unapproachable East details that, but I don't think its in print any longer, so you might have to turn to the 2e Spellbound PDF to find much information on the area... which could be kinda good if you want to ignore some of the recent developments in the region and keep your players at least a little surprised if any of them have read UE.Personally, I would think this works best. There is no handy-dandy wizard tower in the region, but your adventures provide that. technically, the region between the the Thay and Mulhorand is part of Murghôm and the province of Thay known as Thazalhar, an area often under contention. With recent events (Mulhorand taking out Unther), tensions are running high in this region and hostilities are immenent. Given that this area was LOADED with wizard towers back when Thay was part of Mulhorand, many of wich were destroyed when Thay gained it's independence, its a an excellent location for what you have described. Also this region was part of the Imaskar frontier at one time, and more recently part of Raumanthor, so the opportunities for a lost wizard stronghold abound! There is also the southern tip of the Sunrise mountains and the the forest of Ganatwood in this area, so any type of local geography is easily conformed to the adventure maps. Nearby, if you want a pre-made wizard-type dungeon, you have Winterkeep, which has never been detailed (besides a sentence or two). It is located on the soouth shore of the Great Ice sea and was a major location in the old Raumanthor Empire. If you need local feuding factions you could say that the Tuigan (a Hun-like people) are fighting with the Khassidi (a people similar to the Gepids, a Germanic barbarian people allied with the Huns) over the control of the Golden way. However, I don't know the background material for the adventure and the two tribes I mentioned are very superstitious and avoid the ruins. There is also a ruin from Raumanthor called Beacon Cairn in the town by the same name, located just east of Thay near the lake of Mists. The town was pratically destroyed during the Tuigen invasions, but it most likely has been resettled (being along the Golden Way). There is an ancient prophecy attached to the ever-lit blue-green fire at the top of the tower, and it wouldn't be beyond belief that there would be raumanthor ruins beneath it. Thay and Rashemen have been squabbling over this region recently, with Thay covertly ruining (by killing patrols) any attempts to re-occupy the Citadel Rashemar region. Once again you have two powers at each others throats in a region with magical ruins. The reason why I have recomended these locales over those further west is that they are barely covered in any source material, so anything you add would most likely NEVER intefere with future canon. The locale around Erlkazar (shameless plug) is also excellent, as mentioned previous, with contention between Amn and Tethyr over Riatavin and problems on Tethyr's southeastern border after losing Kzelter to Mintarn. Lots of ruins in this region dating back to the Shoon Imperium, High Shanatar, and the kindom of Valashar, not to mention ancient giant and Elvish settlements having been in this area as well. The only problem I see would be that this region is TOO detailed already, so changing things could 'possibly' upset the status quo.
Karsus the Mad 04-18-07, 04:21 PM	Here's the "huge favor": Would either of you be willing to peruse Temptation of Elminster and create some crib notes on Karsus's Repository? If I'm going to use it, I'd like to stay as true to the original source as possible. Alas I'm unable to. All of my novels (other than the 2 I've bought here) and 2e material that's not a free download are in storage back home on the opposite side of the planet.
Old Sage 04-18-07, 08:34 PM	Here's the "huge favor": Would either of you be willing to peruse Temptation of Elminster and create some crib notes on Karsus's Repository? If I'm going to use it, I'd like to stay as true to the original source as possible.I don't have the time to do so at the moment, unfortunately. I've got two deadlines to meet, though one actually expired on Monday. ::But don't tell anyone.:: :P :D I may be able to get to it sometime next month, if you're still interested.
ephealy 04-18-07, 11:11 PM	I'll still be interested. I won't have access to a library for the better part of the next year, so any help is appreciated. Like they say, "Beggers can't be choosers."
Old Sage 04-19-07, 12:44 AM	Aye. I would ask, however, that you occasionally remind me of this in the coming weeks. I've got a lot on my schedule right now... and 'tis likely tasks such as this may unintentionally be forgotten.
ephealy 04-19-07, 01:26 AM	I'm also still considering the Mulhorand vs. Unther (Thay) scenario, BTW. One thing that isn't clear to me is whether Mulhorand knows Thay is supporting Unther. In know Thay and Mulhorand have a long history... but the little I've read says they aren't in conflict (at the moment). Whatever the case, it would seem that the best spot to highlight this conflict would be the Mulhorand / Unther border... right?