Post/Author/DateTime	Post
creyzi4zb12 03-23-07, 12:33 AM	Where can I find Alustriel's children? I'm veryconfused as to why Mystra wanted her to have children before, and in the present books right now like the one with Drizzt on it there isn't any sign of her having children. If so, who's the father? What happened between her and Torm?
Stigger 03-23-07, 12:42 AM	Your guess is as good as mine... it's usually been stated that the Chosen don't have children unless Mystra allows it, and that seems to be a very rare thing for everyone but Alustriel from what I can tell. That's one aspect of them that's never made a whole lot of sense to me really.
creyzi4zb12 03-23-07, 12:59 AM	Yeah, Alustriel's more like a hoe in my opinion. I mean she's always laughing, hugging and kissing people. Even that infamous son******* drow got seduced. Alustriel's had too many lovers I think. But I still think she's nothing compared to that Elminster fellow. Dang those wizards and their sex-appeal!!
Old Sage 03-23-07, 01:10 AM	The father of all the Aerasumé is Taerntym Tanagathor/"Taern Moonweather" -- per Steven Schend here (http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0005C&L=realms-l&P=R13472). And Ed has confirmed she has daughters, though they've received little attention in published Realmslore.
Old Sage 03-23-07, 01:16 AM	Your guess is as good as mine... it's usually been stated that the Chosen don't have children unless Mystra allows itThat is correct. The Chosen can't get with child without Mystra's permission. Ed's discussed this at Candlekeep. ...and that seems to be a very rare thing for everyone but Alustriel from what I can tell. That's one aspect of them that's never made a whole lot of sense to me really.Qilue has a daughter. Alustriel has sons and daughters. Dove has a son. There's Narnra, from Elminster. And Khelben's and Laeral's children.
Stigger 03-23-07, 02:12 AM	A hoe? Strong description there Creyzi... and a bit off considering the dramatically different attitudes to sexuality that are prevalent in the Realms. There's not much in the way of stigma attached to sexuality from what I've read of the Realms, so I don't think having 'too many' lovers is something that would even remotely be an issue. Kinda hard to apply real world morality on a culture that has absolutely zero concept of 'original sin' and the demonization of sexual appetites. But otherwise, thanks for the information there Old Sage, handy stuff.
runestar 03-23-07, 02:16 AM	Qilue has a daughter Has, or had?:P Is there a list of just who the fathers of all her children are? I must admit that I am kinda amazed with how she can just get pregnant with all those children with narry a sweat. To be overly amarous is one thing, but to agree to bear the children of all her paramours?:eek:
boards 03-23-07, 02:54 AM	That is correct. The Chosen can't get with child without Mystra's permission. Ed's discussed this at Candlekeep. Qilue has a daughter. Alustriel has sons and daughters. Dove's had sons. There's Narnra, from Elminster. And Khelben's and Laeral's children. Dove had sons. I thought she only had 1?
Khaelieth 03-23-07, 04:55 AM	A hoe? Strong description there Creyzi... and a bit off considering the dramatically different attitudes to sexuality that are prevalent in the Realms. There's not much in the way of stigma attached to sexuality from what I've read of the Realms, so I don't think having 'too many' lovers is something that would even remotely be an issue. Kinda hard to apply real world morality on a culture that has absolutely zero concept of 'original sin' and the demonization of sexual appetites. But otherwise, thanks for the information there Old Sage, handy stuff. Well, we're taking about a place where old, shady looking men with pointy hats can turn into sheep and mate with huge jackdaw lizards. Any kind of sex is bound to be a bit less taboo.
GothicDan 03-23-07, 06:55 AM	I mean she's always laughing, hugging and kissing people. This counts as being a hoe? *Boggle.* I may be one of the most uptight people ever as far as physical intimacies go, but I'd consider a person who did that just "friendly" and "amicable." Not a libertine or nothin'.
Stigger 03-23-07, 07:13 AM	Why do I get the suspicion that she's referring to that little tidbit Ed released about her... parties rather than just a simple laugh/hug/kiss situation. Creyzi's more cunning than she seems at times... which I suspect is pointedly supposed to be a lesson on orcish superiority... except for that whole not being an orc problem she has, but I doubt she'd let that stop her. :D As to being a libertine, I'd say it was a pretty safe assumption that Alustriel was indeed a libertine, but I fail to see that as a fault, at least as far as my own particular subculture defined that term. :P Personally, my own impression of this thread is that it is Creyzi's attempt to somehow discredit and tarnish the Lady Hope in the aspiration of making Obould look better. ;)
GothicDan 03-23-07, 07:23 AM	That's a given, isn't it? Anything who could potentially be a threat to any Orc anywhere is automatically uncool. ;) I haven't slept for 2 1/2 days. I should go to class and then sleep.
Stigger 03-23-07, 07:27 AM	Good point. :D Sleep is probably a good idea, unless you like the idea of hallucinations setting in... and eventually those fun permanent personality changes.
creyzi4zb12 03-23-07, 09:54 AM	And so the orc campaign begins! :) Gothic: Get some sleep...It's okay to sleep in class, but don't make it too obvious. I sometimes sleep at class when there's a guy reporting, and his report mostly (wait scratch that/entirely) consists of him reading the whole article like a bee humming in the room. Hey I've got an idea. If Obould's that much of a threat to Alustriel because she's afraid the Silver Marches would get plundered, why don't she NEGOTIATE with him. After all, ALustriel's a VERY UNDERSTANDING PERSON.
Old Sage 03-23-07, 10:03 AM	Dove had sons. I thought she only had 1?A son -- Azalar.
Alediran 03-23-07, 10:06 AM	Alustriel could send Obould to the next crystal sphere any day she wants. It's not him what worries Alustriel, it's the thousands of orcs who will go berserk without a leader and could destroy much of the Silver Marches (except Silverymoon thanks to it's Mythal, wich no orc can bypass) before they are stopped.
Zevox 03-23-07, 10:59 AM	Qilue has a daughter. Alustriel has sons and daughters. Dove has a son. There's Narnra, from Elminster. And Khelben's and Laeral's children. Based on Elminster's Daughter, El seems to have a lot more than just Narnra. Queen Filfaeril and Laspeera were revealed to be his daughters at the end of that, after all, and Laspeera even outright said "there are a lot of us." Oh, and Khelben seems to have at least a few more than just the twins. Not by Laeral, but hes fathered children before. That ghost girl in Blackstaff was either his daughter or granddaughter if memory serves, and he mentioned a few more children in there I believe. Zevox
ravennight 03-23-07, 11:07 AM	While it seems a matter of canon that they can't have children unless Mystra allows it, there is no reason to believe that she doesn't let it happen fairly often, or that she disallows it most of the time. It is stated pretty obviously in Elminster's Daughter that he is the biggest 'ho' of all of them, although from my gays in the realms thread it seems necessary to mention that the Realms doesn't have the same sorts of sexual stigmas and taboos that we have. Also...in Blackstaff, Laeral pretty much lists off Khelben's better known children, he fathered children when he lived in Neverwinter for a time, and from that line came the son who was a Lord of Waterdeep, and husband of Lhestyn the Masked Lord, and thus Khelben the Younger, brother of Lady Thann. Laeral admits to having had fewer children, though the daughter who is together with Prince Lamruil doesn't seem to have been the only one. Alustriel, well...she had at least a big brood of half-elven sons, and seems fertile enough to populate a city so most-likely had many other children, and Elminster fathered countless children, including Laspeera of Cormyr and even the Dowager Queen Filfaeril, so most likely has many many many others. And frankly...in a similar vein, many of the Magister's had tons of children. I think the only Sister that is specifically mentioned as having never had children, now that I think about it, is Storm, but Sylune has never been mentioned in canon as having had children either, I don't think. But these are people who have lived for hundreds and hundreds of years, had many lovers, and lived many lives, so it is silly to think that Mystra kept them from having more than one or two children. And aside from the benefits of having such powerful parents, they don't necessarily seem to have inherited any special powers from their Chosen parents.
GothicDan 03-23-07, 11:39 AM	Gothic: Get some sleep...It's okay to sleep in class, but don't make it too obvious. I sometimes sleep at class when there's a guy reporting, and his report mostly (wait scratch that/entirely) consists of him reading the whole article like a bee humming in the room. I'll sleep in a few hours. The idea of sleeping in class is utterly horrific to me! Hey I've got an idea. If Obould's that much of a threat to Alustriel because she's afraid the Silver Marches would get plundered, why don't she NEGOTIATE with him. After all, ALustriel's a VERY UNDERSTANDING PERSON. Because she's not really that afraid. :)
Boda 03-23-07, 12:38 PM	if alustriel is a very...libertine person, maybe she can solve the hole orc horde problem by having an affair with obould?(a quarter elf half orc brat!...scary sight!) She would should the marches problem and scrath that itch in one nasty move! The hole chosen children thing its just another part of mystra plan to takeover the realms by numbers.
zerodeviere 03-23-07, 01:12 PM	the orc problem could be solved fairly easily by having a bunch of elves sneak into their camps and slit their throats while they sleep.. but that wouldn't make for good reading or good roleplaying.... but for Drizzt to not be able to Kill O'bould EASILY.. according to their lvl's maybe they need to Add 10 levels to O'bould to make him a little more accurate in the Role playing books... as is even Girtie the frost giant would crush his miserable skull.... the world needs a few more solutions to the growing evils.. there are very few GOOD nations when compared to all the evil ..... I will be adding atleast one GOOD organization to the world soon if i can get my book published by TSR. you would think the powerful people like Alustrial would do more.... and i know they do alot but they need to not do it secretly
GothicDan 03-23-07, 01:51 PM	So, it seems like there's a good balance of people who think that there's too many good people in the Realms that are too powerful, and people on the other side of the bench. I think the truth lies somewhere there in!
Stigger 03-23-07, 02:48 PM	Come down on the side of not having enough... personally. ;)
Boda 03-23-07, 02:49 PM	Good and evil nations?! Please explain what do you mean by that? There are more Human good deities than evil, but that doesnt make humans good. And just because we dont know about many goodly organazations, that doesnt mean they dont exist (if they are a secret, then they would like to remain so).
Boda 03-23-07, 02:52 PM	Elf assassins - good.....,i dont see your point, but by all means, feel free to elaborate.
Stigger 03-23-07, 02:57 PM	=There are more Human good deities than evil, but that doesnt make humans good. But it does pretty strongly suggest that since the upper planes are getting more deities, they're getting more love from the populace... so it would probably be safe to say that a slight majority of people were of good alignment throughout the Realms as a whole.
JaiaDrottsingr 03-23-07, 04:42 PM	A cousin of mine (another writer), invented an entire interplanar group of humans (and, ocassionally, a band of time-travellin', world-switchin' Cat Elf Bards) with a disposition towards good, though had questionable dealings, entering a "morally grey area" (cookies for the reference) more than most would consider necessary, and often with more than shady characters. The Jai are prehaps some of the best characters I have ever heard described. Tivar alone, man, that guy is strange. Who could possibly knows how old he is, where's he's from, how he got that strange heritage, and why, just why, he sent him and some others on a quest for the good of others. A Cat Elf bard. Those do not mix well, but somehow, Austin pulled it off.
Boda 03-23-07, 08:49 PM	or maybe the good people are a lot more faithful then evil( who tend to see divine service has a means to an end). Anyway, my point is that people choose to be good or evil, not deities, or political ideals.
BrianCritchley 03-23-07, 08:57 PM	But it does pretty strongly suggest that since the upper planes are getting more deities, they're getting more love from the populace... so it would probably be safe to say that a slight majority of people were of good alignment throughout the Realms as a whole. keep in mind that evil deities aren't going to get much love from people who are neutral, but good deities are gonna, being good is oft seen as a more desireable trait then being evil. thus you'll have evil people holding good goods in high esteeme but few good people holding evil gods in high esteme.
Old Sage 03-23-07, 09:09 PM	Based on Elminster's Daughter, El seems to have a lot more than just Narnra. Queen Filfaeril and Laspeera were revealed to be his daughters at the end of that, after all, and Laspeera even outright said "there are a lot of us."No, that's not quite right. Filfaeril and Laspeera aren't literally daughters of Elminster. As Ed said - "Narnra is a “direct” daughter of Elminster; Laspeera and Filfaeril were bending the truth a little to make her feel better when they spoke thus: they’re among Elminster’s many grand and great-grand, and great-great-grand (and so on) -children." We also know Elminster has sons... some of which are still alive.
Old Sage 03-23-07, 09:14 PM	Oh, and Khelben seems to have at least a few more than just the twins. Not by Laeral, but hes fathered children before.Many of which exist as brief references in sources like Steven Schend's mind and as part of his work on the "Khelben Arunsun Official Timeline". And in Blackstaff.
Old Sage 03-23-07, 09:22 PM	It is stated pretty obviously in Elminster's Daughter that he is the biggest 'ho' of all of them...Not exactly. From Ed - "Over his thousand-some years of lusty living, he’s sired quite a few offspring, though not nearly as many as he would have done if Mystra hadn’t been applying her silent “you’re one of my Chosen, and I don’t want you to father anyone just now, so here’s my birth control” powers so often." And - "Let me just note that MYSTRA decides when or if any of her Chosen will “cause” children, and if any such offspring will have any aptitude for magic or become Chosen." ...although from my gays in the realms thread it seems necessary to mention that the Realms doesn't have the same sorts of sexual stigmas and taboos that we have.From Ed - "In ‘my’ Realms, there’s no stigma attached to homosexual relationships, only to any sexual behaviour that involves exploiting children, and any sexual behaviour that involves force or coercion (please note: WILLINGLY undergoing pain or bondage doesn’t count)." ...Elminster fathered countless children, including Laspeera of Cormyr and even the Dowager Queen FilfaerilAs I pointed out earlier, this isn't entirely correct.
creyzi4zb12 03-23-07, 09:37 PM	I wonder if there are soom evil guys in the Realms that were portrayed in a novel as good. Is there a book that shows Thayans being the protagonist?
Stigger 03-24-07, 01:37 AM	Just because you're the protagonist of a story doesn't necessarily make you a good guy... just not as bad as the other guy. ;)
creyzi4zb12 03-24-07, 02:37 AM	No Thayans? I've always thought of the Red Wizards to be cool. In fact I was so annoyed with ELminster and the Simbul always minding other people's business. Is it just me, or are there too many goodly folks in the realms?
Stigger 03-24-07, 04:23 AM	Umm... usually when those two are beating on Thayvians is when the said Thayvians are messing around with other nations and their politics. Ultimately what they're doing is maintaining the status quo, not battering the bad guys at every turn... subtle difference, but an important one. And no, it isn't just you... but I'd say there weren't enough of late. :P
Alediran 03-24-07, 10:49 AM	No Thayans? I've always thought of the Red Wizards to be cool. In fact I was so annoyed with ELminster and the Simbul always minding other people's business. Is it just me, or are there too many goodly folks in the realms? Only people who really don't see the whole thing complain about this. And they are usually the ones who play neutral/evil characters and the DM used the "good" guys to kick their a***. People who like to play with good characters, like me (I also DM the Realms every saturday, in a couple hour today's session will start), or understand the truth about characters like Elminster, never complain about them, because we also know much about the powers of evil most players seem to forget all the time.
Zevox 03-24-07, 11:41 AM	No Thayans? I've always thought of the Red Wizards to be cool. In fact I was so annoyed with ELminster and the Simbul always minding other people's business. Is it just me, or are there too many goodly folks in the realms? Yeah, like the others said, when they get involved with the Thayans, its nearly always to prevent them from meddling with other nations. Especially now that the Simbul is disallowed from trying to destroy them. And no, I'd actually say theres not enough goodly folks in the realms. I mean, just think about all the high-power villains out there. Larloch, Aumvor, the Shadovar, the Thayans, the Zhentarim, Eltab, the Cult of the Dragon, the Twisted Rune, various ancient Dragons, the list goes on and on. And thats not counting the lesser ones, such as Obould, various other demihuman races' tribes, Menzoberranzan and other Drow cities, the ambitions of local nobles or groups, the Fire Knives, any demons or devils that happen to find their way to the prime, and so on. The good guys are lucky they've managed to maintain as much of the status quo as they have. Zevox
Alediran 03-24-07, 11:47 AM	Yeah, like the others said, when they get involved with the Thayans, its nearly always to prevent them from meddling with other nations. Especially now that the Simbul is disallowed from trying to destroy them. And no, I'd actually say theres not enough goodly folks in the realms. I mean, just think about all the high-power villains out there. Larloch, Aumvor, the Shadovar, the Thayans, the Zhentarim, Eltab, the Cult of the Dragon, the Twisted Rune, various ancient Dragons, the list goes on and on. And thats not counting the lesser ones, such as Obould, various other demihuman races' tribes, Menzoberranzan and other Drow cities, the ambitions of local nobles or groups, the Fire Knives, any demons or devils that happen to find their way to the prime, and so on. The good guys are lucky they've managed to maintain as much of the status quo as they have. Zevox It's because of Tymora, she is the Greatest Power of Good, she gives good luck to the good guys.
Boda 03-25-07, 04:28 PM	So many evils! And there only Elsminster, simbul, the other sisters, the Harpers, Gareth dragonsbane and co., the knights of myth drannor, ancient gold and silver dragons, the moonstars, agents of the crown of tethyr, cormyr, impiltur, mulhorandi, halruaa, evermeet agents, and even neutral align powers that more esealy cooperate with good then evil! And the fact that evil also fights evil?! Poor good guys! For me, there a nice balance.The real nuisance is how the good guys are depicted solving problems( ex: and harper and a centaur stupidly stop Szass Tam plot to enslave eltab!?, Drizzt beating Errtu!?)
Stigger 03-25-07, 05:14 PM	One of the reasons I try to avoid the novels for the most part, with a few exceptions... life in the Realms is much easier for me to comprehend without them mucking things up. :D
Alediran 03-25-07, 07:46 PM	Drizzt beating Errtu!? It's easy to kill powerfull demons if you have the propper magical items.