| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Jhiroth02-10-08, 01:32 PM | As an owner of every single FR book of the 3rd edition, as well as almost all of the 2nd edition, I am fairly certain I will likely boycott the 4e sourcebooks. I can't say its very appealing from the previews etc that I have read. How are the rest of you hardcore FR players viewing what your likely purchases will be? Am I alone in thinking this amazingly unique world has been diluted by WoTC's desire to standardize the rules for all world-types? Are the Eberron sales so good that WoTC has an actual reason for this change other then poor market-research? And finally, who is the person I can point to and say "This change is your fault". Is it the FR developers, the CEO of Hasbro, etc? I'd love to hear feedback here. |
| The Ubbergeek02-10-08, 01:42 PM | Not every fan is outraged and closed to the changes. I will at the very least read the books. I am still and will always be a Realms fan. BTW, the changes came also because of problems the Realms have on a few levels, like rigidification and growing weight of the canon. |
| Thinblade02-10-08, 01:59 PM | No, you are certainly not alone, Jhiroth. The 4e move has done an exceptional job of shattering a once-cohesive fan base. As for me, I promised Ed that I would at least read the 4e FRGS. I'm not, however, going to buy it (that what chairs in Borders are for). I'm probably not even going to look for it on the internet, which is about as scathing a condemnation as I can think of. |
| Another Gnome02-10-08, 02:02 PM | Short answer: Yes. You. Longer answer: Most people are going to wait the final product until they pass judgment, and it's a safe bet that the sales numbers will be at least on par with 3E. As for the reason for the changes, it's you, us, the gamer population; 3E Realms was essentially the same meal warmed up again with a few cosmetic changes here and there. Perhaps that's what some fans expect, judging from the vocal opposition to even the slightest changes, but I seriously doubt the majority wants a Groundhog Day. Are there financial motives and plain old artistic ambition involved as well? Of course, the executives want to sell more stuff and the designers want to show off their work (obviously, that's what they're paid to do), but in the end they can and will not make a product they don't think people will go out and buy in hordes. 4E Realms slaughters sacred cows and there's a whole lot of collateral damage done on the side, sure, but the ultimate outcome is that newcomers and veterans alike will be on the same starting line. The history doesn't go anywhere; those familiar with the old, whether in-character or outside the game, will recognize certain iconic people and places, but they can now also enjoy the same thrill of exploration and uncertainty as the new generation. |
| sir_mullich02-10-08, 03:06 PM | I will not buy it, because I play 3.5 only since 2006, and all the scenarios (in the North) I wrote would be lost if i was going for 4th Ed. So as long as all my personal scenarios are not played, i will stay with 3.5 --> game year 1368-1370 :) Maybe in 6 or 7 years when i'm done with those scenarios, i can buy the 5th edition :) |
| Alkasyn02-10-08, 03:18 PM | I wont buy the books, and thers a couple of reasons - -they wont be released in Poland until probably mid 2009 -my troupe doesnt want to play in the new edition. -I bought the old books and the new ones feel like a waste of money. In fact, Ive even bought the books which are aviable here and I didnt posses them yet - dunno why I did so at this moment. Maybe cause they tricked me into dming for them, while earlier I was just a player:P |
| XHereticX02-10-08, 03:45 PM | Yes, or else I woun't feel like I'm moving forwards and the setting would essentially fall down dead for me. |
| Charles Phipps02-10-08, 04:00 PM | Yep. I'm buying them. |
| MarkusTay6302-10-08, 04:45 PM | I'll buy all the core books, because the rules sound interesting. I'll buy the 4e FRCG out of curiousity, and if I like more then 50% of it, I may just use it and continue making purchases. On the other hand, if I like less then ½ of it, I will probably NEVER make another FR purchase again, including novels and video games. |
| XHereticX02-10-08, 04:54 PM | I'll buy all the core books, because the rules sound interesting. I'll buy the 4e FRCG out of curiousity, and if I like more then 50% of it, I may just use it and continue making purchases. On the other hand, if I like less then ½ of it, I will probably NEVER make another FR purchase again, including novels and video games. Now that I think about it, if the core world is interesting enough and FR turns out to be utter crap, I might do the same thing. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-10-08, 05:30 PM | BTW, the changes came also because of problems the Realms have on a few levels, like rigidification and growing weight of the canon. Canon is going to "grow" no matter what the designers do with the setting. Rich Baker (I believe) has stated that the novels will still be canon. And they aren't going to stop putting out Realms fiction. As for the OP's question--I do not plan to purchase any 4E Realms sourcebooks. I do, however, plan to purchase the 4E core books. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-10-08, 05:32 PM | Short answer: Yes. You. Let's not be mind-readers and future-tellers. It's annoying. |
| Storm_Silverhand02-10-08, 05:38 PM | Heya, Like another poster, I too promised Ed Greenwood I would at least flip through the book in the shop. Some days I think I won't be buying it, other days I think I might... I'm really unimpressed by the changes, but if there's enough in the FRCG that is adaptable to my version of the 3.5e Realms (ie: pre Spellplague and the Crisis Crossover of Days of Our House of the Triad and Another Brightwater), I might be tempted to buy it. Ed says there'll be stuff worth looking at, and at this moment in time I have to trust that he's right. (Oh yeah, and I am buying the 4e core books... I've found 4e itself to be intriguing.) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-10-08, 05:56 PM | If I like Greenwood's stuff enough to want to own the 4E FRCG for myself, I will buy it second-hand, rather than straight from the bookstore. |
| EytanBernstein02-10-08, 06:27 PM | I spent most of the last year in Poland and I was also disappointed about the speed of releases there. I wont buy the books, and thers a couple of reasons - -they wont be released in Poland until probably mid 2009 -my troupe doesnt want to play in the new edition. -I bought the old books and the new ones feel like a waste of money. In fact, Ive even bought the books which are aviable here and I didnt posses them yet - dunno why I did so at this moment. Maybe cause they tricked me into dming for them, while earlier I was just a player:P |
| Andferne02-10-08, 06:37 PM | I'll buy the core books and the FR book, then depending on how those turn out is if I will continue or not. |
| Darth_Khan02-10-08, 07:21 PM | I will by the Core books, the FR setting book, and anything else that strikes my fancy. If I enjoy the edition, I will get everything. If not only what I need to play. |
| Dark Wizard02-10-08, 09:24 PM | I'll likely buy the 4E core rules, at the very least a PHB, so I can actually play 4E. I might get by without it, but it's a handy reference to have. No matter what anyone says about the WotC Edition Police not storming my house to forcibly burn my old edition books, a new edition is a new edition. Inevitably, older edition games will come to an end, others will update/transfer over to 4E, and soon most new games will start in 4E. That is simply how it works with rules. The newest edition is the most readily available set to find and as time passes it will increase in prevalence. When 3e first came around, I saw numerous 2e games still start on a regular basis for a few years, but after a while 2e games became extremely rare, about as numerous as 1e and OD&D games nowadays, once in a blue moon. I'm speaking of PBEM games. My home games switched over to 3e almost immediately. We'll probably go 4E soon after it comes out. The 4E FR books I will check out in book stores and learn about from these forums. Based on some of the widespread, excessively heavy-handed changes to the Realms already, I will either get it second hand or wait two months before buying each FR release. I don't want to contribute to WotC getting the wrong idea, not that my measly purchasing power matters. Just like with the edition change for the core rules, FR games will inevitably drift towards the new Realms. The difficulty of finding an old Realms game will increase with the years. It's not a sign of quality over the old stuff, more just what is available. |
| MarkusTay6302-11-08, 12:34 AM | I just wonder how many of those second-hand FRCG's will be floating around by the end of the year. :P At the very least, you can always keep it in your medicine cabinet in case you poison yourself. ;) |
| 18DELTA02-11-08, 12:34 AM | -I am going to get the Core Books, the FRCG and the FRPG I will have to look at before I make an informed decision.;) 18DELTA:P |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 12:54 AM | -I'm not buying anything. Third Edition still works for me. I might pick up the 4e FRCS, but odds, but since I don't want to send the wrong message, I am probably going to simply read it at the book store, note interesting points, and then ask you guys to elaborate/clear things up. |
| MarkusTay6302-11-08, 01:10 AM | see... thats the big problem I'm having, and why I keep switching back and forth. I like 3e - I think it's just fine and there's really nothing wrong with it that a few house rules couldn't fix. In fact, I just read elsewhere that Monte Cook has already done that - he addressed all of the so-called 'problems' the designers had with 3e, and made a bunch of houserules that would modify 3e to be more like 4e, without having to go out and buy the new edition. Isn't he a swell guy? You can download the PDF from his sight... Anyway, I also like the way the 4e rules sound, and I do think they will be better then the 3e ones... but I don't want to stop using 3e Realms. That means a lot of conversion work for me, but if 4e FR turns out ½ as bad as it sounds, it might be worth it. |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 01:21 AM | I like 3e - I think it's just fine and there's really nothing wrong with it that a few house rules couldn't fix. -This is basically what 4e is, as I understand it. It's d20, with some new add-ons, rule changes and what not. In short, it's 3e with a bunch of House Rules. |
| Alkasyn02-11-08, 02:24 AM | I spent most of the last year in Poland and I was also disappointed about the speed of releases there. They make the books so exspensive, that it really stops beign a hobby for young people, unfortunately:P THey have poor sales, thats why they dont print too much. |
| Ryltar Swordsong02-11-08, 03:01 AM | Not buying anything 4e. I will look at the FRCG at the store, but I will not buy it. Not even second-hand. |
| sillaric_culdanin02-11-08, 03:19 AM | I also own every 3e/3.5e book and have almost every 1e/2e source as .pdf now (had a complete 2e collection I sold years ago). I will definitely be buying all of the 4e stuff as both the core systems and the FR changes intrigue me to no end. In truth if I don't enjoy playing/running in the new Realms I'll keep going with my old stuff... but odds are I will enjoy vast parts of it (this is the same reason I run both Eberron and FR games and even WFRP and WoD when I can). I won't set games in areas of the world that don't interest me (I don't run games in the Old Empires even in 3e as an example) but that's really no stopping block. |
| Another Gnome02-11-08, 03:52 AM | Let's not be mind-readers and future-tellers. It's annoying. Only if I end up being wrong. Otherwise it's impressive. :D Besides, it was no guesswork; a fact is that people are going to buy the books, and another fact is that new books are being released because people are expected to buy them. Simple, yes? ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 03:59 AM | -One of the most powerful seers in my campaign setting is a Gnome...Perhaps, in invoking mystic rights to gain such abilities, he gave up his sense of person, and thusly calls himself 'Another Gnome'? -I'm obligated to defend Rino, however...So, 'bad' Gnome. You sleep outside tonight. |
| Another Gnome02-11-08, 04:33 AM | I'm obligated to defend Rino, however...So, 'bad' Gnome. You sleep outside tonight. On the lawn? Aw schucks, I should've seen that coming. :weep: |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 04:39 AM | On the lawn? Aw schucks, I should've seen that coming. :weep: -Don't worry, I take good care of my lawn. It's nice and springy. -Well, I don't actually have a lawn. I have some bushes in front of my house, so, close enough. Foliage is foliage. If I had a lawn, though, I'd take care of it, and make sure my grass was nice and springy. |
| Zanan02-11-08, 04:48 AM | On the lawn? Aw schucks, I should've seen that coming. :weep: Hands him a carpet of dirge repelling. :tiphat: |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 04:51 AM | Hands him a carpet of dirge repelling. :tiphat: -No singing at his funeral? Or, this guy isn't invited?: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/16/Dirge-boxart.jpg/407px-Dirge-boxart.jpg |
| Another Gnome02-11-08, 04:57 AM | Bah weep graaagnah wheep ni ni bong? |
| Lord Karsus02-11-08, 05:02 AM | Bah weep graaagnah wheep ni ni bong? -Stop talking Gnomish. I'll get a translator! |
| Alediran02-11-08, 08:20 AM | I'll probably buy the Core books, but I'm not going to use 4th edition until I have at least enough player material like the begining of 3rd edition (3/4 of my players have PrC that aren't from the core books and converting will kill the flavour of their characters). The FRCG gets only one chance to impress me, if I don't like what I read I'll not buy any single FR product that is based on 4th edition for the rest of my life and I'll concentrate in the Ye Classic Realms project and my website to continue delivering Classic Realms material for 3rd and 4th edition players. |
| Jiggawha02-11-08, 10:25 AM | If I find them useful then yes, half or more of 3e FR books are dumbed down as well, so if they continue in that tradition then no never been satisfied with 3e mechanics, the new rules look interesting ... |
| Keryth02-11-08, 11:59 AM | Well, several people here have commented on how much they've spent on 3rd Ed or how 3rd Ed can be fixed with just a few minor house rules. Said the same thing about 2nd Ed myself, back when 3rd Ed came out. Know what? MY group went 3rd Ed anyhow and I've not played 2nd Ed since (which I still prefer) 4th Ed looks interesting enought o me that I'll buy the core books. My players/fellow GMs in my group have already figured from what has been let out we're gonna have to House Rule ALOT to kepe the flavor of our shared world going. As for the New Realms, out of morbid curiosity, I'll purchase the New Realms Campaign Guide. Pretty sure that will be it for my New Realms purchases though, as I've yet to see ANYTHING in either the previews of the bit in Grand History that I like about the New Realms |
| Alediran02-11-08, 12:23 PM | Keryth, be smart, if you can read it before purchasing it you'll be able to wisely vote with your wallet. |
| Deep Dragon02-11-08, 01:05 PM | as an owner of a COMPLETE collection of all Forgotten Realms products and novels and video games from Throne of Bloodstone in the mid-80's til the Grand History of The Realms (yes, even the Great Khan Game) ... i can officially say that my collection is complete the only other products i will buy are Neverwinter Nights 2 expansions (as they are 3.5 rules) this is now two collections that have been officially ended by WotC in the past 6 months along with my Dragon Magazine collection (still need 8 issues for a complete set) these also happen to be the only two things I collected anymore, so I guess officially my childhood can now end at the age of 37, hey it was fun while it lasted I can't complain as my fairly healthy disposable income can now be directed to college funds/retirement/etc (i.e. grown up things) thanks to Ed and TSR, and the freelancers of the 80's and 90's who made Faerun a special place |
| DMD02-11-08, 01:10 PM | I will not buy 4E core books. My group and I love the idea that we now have a closed set of rules. Nothing to come out with new rules and change anything. We have all of the 3.5 books (pretty much) so why buy new ones? I have enough 2nd edition material and 3.0/3.5 to last me for decades I do not see the point in sinking more money in when I probably won't use all the material I have now anyway. I may purchase the 4E FRCS though just to see the final result of the changes the new designers came up with because 1) I am intrigued, 2) I think I will not be able to participate in any rational conversation regarding these releases on these boards or anywhere without at least reading what the designers have done, 3) I think it will be helpful (though not necessary) to read the book if I still want to continue reading the FR novels, and 4) I think Rich Baker has written some quality fiction so I should probably give this new edition a chance. Though I will say I am not pleased by most of what I have seen thus far. |
| Yaeri02-11-08, 06:04 PM | -I'm not buying anything. Third Edition still works for me. I might pick up the 4e FRCS, but odds, but since I don't want to send the wrong message, I am probably going to simply read it at the book store, note interesting points, and then ask you guys to elaborate/clear things up. Same here. I'm not opposed to 4th edition. I'm not bashing it in advance or anything. I'm just not going to buy it for the same reason I haven't bought a new computer yet. (It's nearly six years old but I can still type stories on it, surf the internet, play games, read pdf's, listen to music, watch movies, etc... I see no need to waste money on a new one every year.) |
| Crust02-11-08, 09:02 PM | As others have mentioned, I'll be buying the new books, simply because I must move forward with the material. I'm also looking forward to a more streamlined game system where I don't have to open a book everytime someone casts a spell or wants to grapple/trip/overrun, etc. As for the money issue, I'll be buying books anyway, whether it's 3.5 or 4E. It's wiser to move ahead with the rest of the world and be able to use the new materials when they're released. |
| creyzi4zb1202-11-08, 09:17 PM | I only buy novels......I don't buy core/rule books....4e novels I'll buy...if they're cheap enough |
| Lord Karsus02-12-08, 12:46 AM | I'm also looking forward to a more streamlined game system where I don't have to open a book everytime someone casts a spell or wants to grapple/trip/overrun, etc. -In 4e, it'll be something else. Remember, 3e was streamlined from 2e... |
| MarkusTay6302-12-08, 01:03 AM | Keryth, be smart, if you can read it before purchasing it you'll be able to wisely vote with your wallet.But I want EVERYONE to buy the new FRCG, which will skew their figures badly, and they will pour their heart and soul (and tons of Hasbro's money) into more FR products. Which will sit on shelves, until the bookstores mail them back and tell them they refuse to carry WotC products due to lack of sales. ;) I don't want to make a statement, I want HEADS TO ROLL! :devil: -Well, I don't actually have a lawn. I have some bushes in front of my house, so, close enough. Foliage is foliage. If I had a lawn, though, I'd take care of it, and make sure my grass was nice and springy.You need to move to the 'burbs... When I still lived at the ex's house, my backyard was up against the pine barrens - I'd sit out there some mornings with a cup of coffee and deer would come right up to the deck railing. If I had my way, I'd live somewhere where I couldn't see my neighbors house... with the hubble telescope. Bushes in the city are just good for peeing on. :P |
| Lord Karsus02-12-08, 01:08 AM | When I still lived at the ex's house, my backyard was up against the pine barrens - I'd sit out there some mornings with a cup of coffee and deer would come right up to the deck railing. -The only wildlife I want to ever enounter "in the wild" are pigeons, sea gulls, squirells (sp?- I can never spell that right), random bugs, and that's about it. |
| Alediran02-12-08, 08:14 AM | I've seen plenty wildlife when I lived in Puerto Madryn. Mostly was the water kind: Crabs (mmmmhhh), Medusae, fishes, whales, sea lions, sea gulls, authoctonous (sp?) birds. I saw once a scorpion. |
| GothicDan02-12-08, 10:28 AM | I will not be buying any of them, though I will read/look over the FR book. To anyone who talks about "moving forward" as if it was inherently a good thing, I say: moving forward isn't the same thing as progressing. |
| Flicker02-12-08, 11:44 AM | i tend to be in the same place as Deep Dragon here, with a D&D collection stretching back to 1st Ed and a roleplaying collection getting into serious bookcase space, it may be time to take a hard look at whether I will use any of the published information. Arcanis lured me into 3.5 and once in I was happy enough to look at the rules set and agree that 'this time' maybe it did cover everything it needed to,(this was after vowing never to play 3e) sure it was a bit cumbersome here and there and it tended to promote the roll play type rather than the role play, but it worked and was quite well thought out. I'll look at 4e, but i'm likely to only play Arcanis as 4e, my home games will stay 3.5e and I will convert what i can. Why? I think most people have covered it, I don't see this as anything other than a cynical marketing ploy from Hasbro to boost sales. Remembering back to the days of TSR and when Wotc acquired them, I remember that profit wasn't the main driver for TSR, i think that has changed, I don't see anything in the future that will be released unless it can be profitable. I seem to remember something about GHTR been the last book to the 'old crowd' and future books will likely be just packed full of prestige classes and not really expand what the Realms is about. Its interesting that the last piece of feedback I read with regards to the designers outlook was that the 'online' feedback was a minority and most people supported a change. Indeed the guys at PCI have taken a business approach and confirmed that they are 90% likely to convert to 4e but it will be their customers that drive the change, not them telling the customers, wow thats unique for a business, listening to people who purchase the product. So can I ask a slightly different question? Do we think that sales will remain sustainable in the new edition, we have to accept I believe that the figures will be good enough in the short term, but I cant see the medium/long term sustainability, at which point, theres 5th ed. |
| glitter02-12-08, 11:47 AM | If I must speak about my RPG club: We have a confortable collection of first and second edition + nearly all available books of the 3ed in two languages. Honnestly, unless the rules are a real revolution, we don't plan to buy the 4ed. And since nobody cares of the official background ... |
| DMD02-12-08, 01:32 PM | I really do not think their sales will fall off very much if at all. |
| MarkusTay6302-12-08, 03:59 PM | We're talking belly-up, me bucko! :P Seriously, I remember a couple of years ago when the WH boards were filled with negativity about the increasiing prices coupled with inferior quality. So Games Workshop shut down their boards... They choose to ignore the 'small minority of naysayers' and continue on with their current business model (less for more). On the miniatures board I'm a member of, we cheer every time one of those quarterly earnings graphs gets published by them... It looks like a ski slope and it's ALL downhill. :D There is no greater satisfaction then watching a company that has treated its customers badly crumble and fall. |
| Soltares02-12-08, 04:08 PM | I got the 3E FRCS, and all of the 2nd Edition books (and all the novels up to the Avatar Trilogy, which cured me of my Realms-addiction). That'll do me for now. In a few years, I might pick up the core setting book to see if it's got anything I want to incorporate, but I'll probably get it used. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-12-08, 04:16 PM | Bah weep graaagnah wheep ni ni bong? *hand Enegon bar* Bah weep graaagnah wheep ni ni bong!!!! . . . I can't belive I got that one :P |
| sfdragon02-12-08, 04:43 PM | getting the phb, and maybe the mm the frcs i will look at. the changes are NOT impressive, and if i dont like it then i wont buy it. then i will initiate Cole protocol: article 2 and abandon ship with the AI |
| Alediran02-12-08, 06:44 PM | That's why The Realms Vault (http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com) was born :D. We'll do what WotC won't. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 06:57 PM | I just wonder how many of those second-hand FRCG's will be floating around by the end of the year. :P That's exactly what I am counting on.;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 07:03 PM | Besides, it was no guesswork; a fact is that people are going to buy the books, and another fact is that new books are being released because people are expected to buy them. Simple, yes? ;) Not quite, because you flat-out stated (maybe jokingly?) that the OP would be one of those people. The fact is, no one knows that. It's one thing to say that people out there will buy the FRCG, it is quite another to say that any specific person will (especially if they specifically state that they won't). It's not a big deal, but I do find it rather cheeky. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 07:04 PM | I like 3e - I think it's just fine and there's really nothing wrong with it that a few house rules couldn't fix. In fact, I just read elsewhere that Monte Cook has already done that - he addressed all of the so-called 'problems' the designers had with 3e, and made a bunch of houserules that would modify 3e to be more like 4e, without having to go out and buy the new edition. Isn't he a swell guy? You can download the PDF from his sight... Link please? I'm not familiar with MC's site. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 07:05 PM | -I'm obligated to defend Rino, however...So, 'bad' Gnome. You sleep outside tonight. Awww, thanks!:embarrass :D |
| Lord Karsus02-12-08, 07:05 PM | I really do not think their sales will fall off very much if at all. -Things will more or less stablize themselves. For every fan they lose, there will probably be a fan they gain somewhere else, seeing the FRCS 4 and picking it up. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 07:19 PM | -The only wildlife I want to ever enounter "in the wild" are pigeons, sea gulls, squirells (sp?- I can never spell that right), random bugs, and that's about it. What about cute backyard songbirds?:) |
| Lord Karsus02-12-08, 07:40 PM | What about cute backyard songbirds?:) -Good point. Add 'random' birds to that list- finches, sparrows, the ocasional cardinal, blue jay, oriole, etc. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-12-08, 09:04 PM | -Good point. Add 'random' birds to that list- finches, sparrows, the ocasional cardinal, blue jay, oriole, etc. Yay!:) I love those birds, there are a lot that live in my backyard. Do you get mourning doves? Pigeons are after all a type of dove. |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 12:04 AM | Yay!:) I love those birds, there are a lot that live in my backyard. Do you get mourning doves? Pigeons are after all a type of dove. -Yeah. When I was younger, the apartment I lived in had a tree right in front of it, and I lived in the front room. In the summers, I'd always wake up circa dawn, or a little after, when the doves began cooing. At least, I think they were doves. They sound something like this: "Who, who, whoooo.oooo, whoooooo, whooooooo, whooooooo." They weren't owls... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-13-08, 01:38 PM | -Yeah. When I was younger, the apartment I lived in had a tree right in front of it, and I lived in the front room. In the summers, I'd always wake up circa dawn, or a little after, when the doves began cooing. At least, I think they were doves. They sound something like this: "Who, who, whoooo.oooo, whoooooo, whooooooo, whooooooo." They weren't owls... I think I know exactly what you are talking about.:) That might have been a mourning dove. Although, there are other birds that make similar "mourning" sounds. I have, by the way, actually heard an owl, although I haven't seen one in the wild, yet. |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 01:51 PM | I think I know exactly what you are talking about.:) That might have been a mourning dove. Although, there are other birds that make similar "mourning" sounds. -Yeah, that's what I figured. Awesome to see my onomatapia is spot-on, too. :D I have, by the way, actually heard an owl, although I haven't seen one in the wild, yet. -I've never seen one before. My stepfather claims to have seen one while walking our dogs, but I've come to realize he likes to BDS when talking. So, I take everything he normally says at face value. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-13-08, 02:04 PM | -Yeah, that's what I figured. Awesome to see my onomatapia is spot-on, too. :D I distinctly remember waking up to hear the same wistful birdcall... :) -I've never seen one before. My stepfather claims to have seen one while walking our dogs, but I've come to realize he likes to BDS when talking. So, I take everything he normally says at face value. LOL! I imagine that the wouldn't be easy to see, considering they are mainly active when it's dark out... |
| Markustay02-13-08, 02:47 PM | Sorry, I'm usually better then that...Link please? I'm not familiar with MC's site.The Tome that turns 3e into 4e (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOXM) All for $9. ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-13-08, 03:29 PM | I distinctly remember waking up to hear the same wistful birdcall... :) LOL! I imagine that the wouldn't be easy to see, considering they are mainly active when it's dark out... -Eh, who knows. Sorry, I'm usually better then that...The Tome that turns 3e into 4e (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOXM) All for $9. ;) -Why that looks exactly like 4e, only it's now. New levels for magic, a new class that is a martial class that uses magic to augment itself... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-13-08, 06:57 PM | Sorry, I'm usually better then that...The Tome that turns 3e into 4e (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOXM) All for $9. ;) It's OK! Thanks for the link.:) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-13-08, 06:59 PM | OK, I took a look: So Monte took a break from his fiction work to compile this book, a collection of the house rules he currently uses in his own games. These include a spell progression system that ranks spells from levels 1 to 20, new rules for healing and curative magic, magical disciplines for spellcasters that always give them an active power and a way to contribute, and much more. Whoa, that sounds familiar! |
| 18DELTA02-14-08, 01:36 AM | -Birds, I love it when my kitty is stalking them in the back yard. Great morning fun. The kitty don't like it when the BlueJays are around, cause they dive bomb her relentlessly!;) :P :D -Owls rock, seen and heard them out in the field at Ft.Campbell Ky, and at Ft.Sill Ok. Ft Sill has Geronimo's(sp) grave on post. Whats crazy is two christian missonary's are buried in the Apache cemetary. They were with them(his apache tribe) during their 10 year flight from the US Calvary. Most of Ft. Sill was built by the indians(my barracks were)!:teach: 18DELTA:) |
| glitter02-14-08, 04:15 AM | -Things will more or less stablize themselves. For every fan they lose, there will probably be a fan they gain somewhere else, seeing the FRCS 4 and picking it up. Obviously, it's what WOTC expect and I think that I really understand their point of view even if as a player it's a different question. |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 07:19 AM | :teach: 18DELTA:) -Look at Delta with the history lesson. ;) Obviously, it's what WOTC expect and I think that I really understand their point of view even if as a player it's a different question. -Same here. I don't like what they are doing, and vehemently disagree with most of it, but, let's be realists here. Things are going to chug on as always, albeit with a few more hiccups now. |
| Alediran02-14-08, 07:37 AM | Ohhh, look our Delta all grown up. |
| sfdragon02-14-08, 12:58 PM | but would it be enough sells...... how many of them will sell it at flea markets, burn the 4e frcs, or drop it off in places like hastings or page 1 too? to get anything in life, something of equal value must be given up. you cant get something for nothing |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 01:46 PM | -Birds, I love it when my kitty is stalking them in the back yard. Great morning fun. The kitty don't like it when the BlueJays are around, cause they dive bomb her relentlessly!;) :P :D Awww! That's cute.:) Cats are, from what I understand, not the greatest at catching birds. I love it when they "stalk", though. |
| Alediran02-14-08, 03:07 PM | I saw one how two female dobbermans (dogs) catched a Seagull in the act of taking flight. That is VERY hard to do. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 03:20 PM | I saw one how two female dobbermans (dogs) catched a Seagull in the act of taking flight. That is VERY hard to do. Yes, that's quite a feat! |
| Markustay02-14-08, 03:47 PM | Awww! That's cute.:) Cats are, from what I understand, not the greatest at catching birds. I love it when they "stalk", though.In season, my sister's cat on the average annihilates a bird every other day - she's even climbed trees and wiped out entire nests. She a LOT smaller then a normal cat (a little bigger then the average squirrel), and she lost her tail in an accident when she was very young. Between her strange 'looks' and savage demeanor, we've nick-named her Psycho-Cat. Currently we have 'something' living in our attic, and my sis wants me to put her cat up there for a day. I really don't have the heart... or the desire to clean up animal guts when she's 'finished'... :rolleyes: As far as the FRCG goes - if they are going to pick up one new customer for every one they lose, then what the hell was the point in nuking the setting? Do they think the 'newbs' will outlive the 'grognards' or something? :confused: Seriously, had they just made the thing even better in 4e (by ADDING to it), rather then destroying a good chunk of it, they could have kept their existing fanbase and garnered new interest. Remember how they gave everyone a deal on the 3e PHB and DMG when they came out? I think I got them for $20 or so... thats what they SHOULD do with the FRCG... People WILL buy it because it's a great deal... and then continue to buy FR products because you've piqued their interest. Seriously, did ANY of the people in charge go to business school? :bored: |
| Lord Karsus02-14-08, 04:02 PM | Remember how they gave everyone a deal on the 3e PHB and DMG when they came out? I think I got them for $20 or so... -Really? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-14-08, 04:22 PM | In season, my sister's cat on the average annihilates a bird every other day - she's even climbed trees and wiped out entire nests. She a LOT smaller then a normal cat (a little bigger then the average squirrel), and she lost her tail in an accident when she was very young. Between her strange 'looks' and savage demeanor, we've nick-named her Psycho-Cat. Currently we have 'something' living in our attic, and my sis wants me to put her cat up there for a day. I really don't have the heart... or the desire to clean up animal guts when she's 'finished'... :rolleyes: Why not? Let the kitty have fun.:D I can understand not wanting to clean up the results though... Remember how they gave everyone a deal on the 3e PHB and DMG when they came out? I think I got them for $20 or so... Yes I do. I got my 3E core rule books (PHB, MM, DMG) for $20.00 each. |
| jimmyjimjam0102-15-08, 01:24 AM | I'll buy it if they give me a good reason to. |
| Mad_Mickelson02-15-08, 03:10 AM | -The only wildlife I want to ever enounter "in the wild" are pigeons, sea gulls, squirells (sp?- I can never spell that right), random bugs, and that's about it. -Whats wrong LK bit scared of animals more than half the size of a human??? -Have to get you down under and take you roo shooting mate :P -I nearly had an accident, the other week, a roo jumping across the road (was a big red), missed it by about half a meter, the damn thing was nearly bigger than me at around 6 foot tall. If you hit one of those irrespective of what you are driving (nothing less than a semi),going 100Ks an hour, you're a goner. -I wont be getting any 4th edition material, spent to much as it is on 3.0 & 3.5, lol atm im picking up books for $11.00AU. As long as there is enough 3.5 material (which there is) that will keep me and my group going indefiantely. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 04:43 AM | -Oh, wait a second. The price of those books were $19.99. I didn't realize that. I thought they were $29.99 each, like most other books, but there was some kind of sale/program going on when the books first came out. -Whats wrong LK bit scared of animals more than half the size of a human??? -I just like being in a civilized area, which entails random animals not walking around. -Have to get you down under and take you roo shooting mate :P -While I abhor shooting as a sport, that sounds strangely fun. Is that legal? |
| Alediran02-15-08, 06:16 AM | -I just like being in a civilized area, which entails random animals not walking around. Go to the movies to see I am Legend and you'll not think the same anymore. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 06:25 AM | Go to the movies to see I am Legend and you'll not think the same anymore. -A post-apocalyptic world isn't exactly civilized, is it? ;) |
| Alediran02-15-08, 06:34 AM | But it's based in New York :D |
| Old Sage02-15-08, 06:45 AM | -Have to get you down under...LK couldn't handle Australia. ;) After all, he has enough trouble with Osse! :P |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 06:50 AM | LK couldn't handle Australia. ;) After all, he has enough trouble with Osse! :P -Now, now, Sage. Osse isn't Australia. It's based off of an amalgamation of Polynesian/Aboriginal culture. :P |
| Mad_Mickelson02-15-08, 08:15 AM | -I just like being in a civilized area, which entails random animals not walking around. -lol you get that down here koala with a cub the other day wandering across the road, they'll tear you to pieces, regardless of how cuddly they look. --While I abhor shooting as a sport, that sounds strangely fun. Is that legal? -legal as long as you have a gun license and are more that 7kms out of town, and are "supposed" to have a permit (no one bothers with that much, only when a farm culling happens). You spend most of the day chasing them, and yeah its fun you miss more often then not, damn things wont stand still when they catch your scent.(only been once by the way :P ) -Now, now, Sage. Osse isn't Australia. It's based off of an amalgamation of Polynesian/Aboriginal culture. -pronounced "ozzy" like Ozzy Osbourne. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 09:03 AM | -legal as long as you have a gun license and are more that 7kms out of town, and are "supposed" to have a permit (no one bothers with that much, only when a farm culling happens). You spend most of the day chasing them, and yeah its fun you miss more often then not, damn things wont stand still when they catch your scent.(only been once by the way :P ) -What do you do with them once you shoot them? Can you eat them? And, do they really box? |
| Mad_Mickelson02-15-08, 09:07 AM | -What do you do with them once you shoot them? Can you eat them? And, do they really box? -Well some places use the skins (leatherwork; bags cover and other stuff I think), you can eat roo meat its pretty tough though, made roo jerky once, think of a really chewey lolly that tastes like lamb and beef and u have a general idea as to what roo meat is like. If you get a headshot on an albino roo, thats worth about 5k and up depending on the quality and size. Thats about as much as I know on the subject. -Nope, they dont box they grab you with their upper arms and kick and scratch the hell out of you, I don't know of anyone that has been dumb enough to go that close yet. |
| Androth_Holybringer02-15-08, 09:26 AM | I probably will, but if I don't like it much I won't incorporate the events in the future of my campaign. I like Faerun as it is, but sometimes changes can be good. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-15-08, 12:57 PM | deleted |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-15-08, 12:59 PM | -I just like being in a civilized area, which entails random animals not walking around. I would enjoy that. Well...assuming they were docile animals (as far as any wild animal could be considered "docile", of course). |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 01:16 PM | I would enjoy that. Well...assuming they were docile animals (as far as any wild animal could be considered "docile", of course). -There's the rub. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-15-08, 01:30 PM | -There's the rub. Well, the good news is that the vast majority animals just run away if humans get too close. That's been my experience anyway.:) And of course, some animals just plain wouldn't want to be found (odds are you wouldn't be able to see them). |
| Mad_Mickelson02-15-08, 01:33 PM | Well, the good news is that the vast majority animals just run away if humans get too close. That's been my experience anyway.:) And of course, some animals just plain wouldn't want to be found (odds are you wouldn't be able to see them). -Animals like the Yowie and the Bunyip, also the very rare and exotic Drop Bears and Gully Bulls, the 2 latter much more dangerous and fearsome than the 2 former. CRIKEY WHAT WAS THAT!!!!!:eek: |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 02:03 PM | -Animals like the Yowie and the Bunyip, also the very rare and exotic Drop Bears and Gully Bulls, the 2 latter much more dangerous and fearsome than the 2 former. -Are Bunyip even real? I thought those were Aboriginal legendary monster creatures, like the Chupacabra. CRIKEY WHAT WAS THAT!!!!!:eek: -Ugh...They got Mick...:nonono: |
| Mad_Mickelson02-15-08, 02:10 PM | -Are Bunyip even real? I thought those were Aboriginal legendary monster creatures, like the Chupacabra. -You're right they are, but like I said its the Drop Bears and the Gully Bulls that are the real killers -Ugh...They got Mick...:nonono: -LMAO havn't laughed so hard in ages man, I was never a fan of him but its not the same without him...no other iconic ozzies to bag out for being over the top, apparantly he was like that even when the cameras wern't rolling as well. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 02:22 PM | -You're right they are, but like I said its the Drop Bears and the Gully Bulls that are the real killers -You know, those really do sounds like D&D monsters. Maybe they'll be in the 4e Monster Manual? -LMAO havn't laughed so hard in ages man, I was never a fan of him but its not the same without him...no other iconic ozzies to bag out for being over the top, apparantly he was like that even when the cameras wern't rolling as well. -I never really cared one way or the other for Steve Irwin, but you gotta give him credit for being ballsy. And, he did do a lot of animal awareness education, so that's always good. All in all, he was a good guy, I'd say. |
| Bonzai02-15-08, 02:40 PM | Well, one of our gaming group is going to break down and get the new core books. Then we are going to have a test game. If we like what we see, I will probably break down and get digital versions of the core books, and what ever crunch book piques my interest. As far as for lore books for the realms? Nope. I'm done. I have 30 or so books that are now going to be 90% useless. I will never again invest in lore books that can be made obsolete at a developers whim. For my part, I think I am going to work on a homebrew setting where I have control. I haven't bought a single dragonlance product since they messed with the setting. I haven't bought a single white wolf product since they messed with the setting. And now I am most likley going to be doing the same with the realms as well. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 02:42 PM | Well, one of our gaming group is going to break down and get the new core books. -That's good for you, then. You'll have access to them, and not have to pay! |
| Alediran02-15-08, 02:59 PM | Bonzai, you don't need to think those old books useless, now they are even more valuable, and I think you could be one of the people creating the Classic Realms for 4th edition, like the, few for now, people who are working in The Realms Vault. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-08, 03:04 PM | Bonzai, you don't need to think those old books useless, now they are even more valuable, and I think you could be one of the people creating the Classic Realms for 4th edition, like the, few for now, people who are working in The Realms Vault. -You find a way to plug that any way you can, eh? :P |
| Alediran02-15-08, 03:31 PM | -You find a way to plug that any way you can, eh? :P Some way of promotig the site I need to do and I can't make a thread just for it. |
| Khaelieth02-15-08, 04:00 PM | l'm gonna take a look at the rules in the store then make a decision after looking through them. Don't think l'll buy it so far, definitely won't buy FRCS, as it's just, in my opinion, too changed from the world l loved. |
| Diffan02-15-08, 04:13 PM | I'll probably buy the core books for 4e. From what i've read, i really like the changes they're making to the game. Fighters will finally be fun to play at higher levels, wizards will be more effective for longer periods, more in depth mechanics for characters diversity, etc..... As for FR 4e, we'll see what happens. I probably will buy it to use as references, but no way am I limiting myself to ALL the changes they're incorporating (i've never been a stickler for canon) and so the changes can just as easily be glossed over or never used. I like the idea of the Spellplague and might use it in my campaigns, sorta giving everything a fresh start and/or clean slate, and I'll probably incorporate the destruction of Unther and the new Dragonborn-sworn(whatever they're called). This whole controversy is really a two-sided coin for me. On one side, you have people who've been playing the Realms for years and years, not liking the changes that are coming and saying that the changes could be done by the DM (not someone in a corporate office) that's his/her job anyways. On the other side, people who are new or looking for change can say the changes that are now in place do not have to be incorporated and/or glossed over which is should be done by the DM, that's his/her job anyways. Either way, it's work for the DM reguardless. -oh BTW, 3 cheers for the Realmsvault. :w00t: |
| Mean Eyed Cat02-15-08, 07:23 PM | I will buy the 4th edition books. I have been a fan of the Forgotten Realms for 20 years. I have nearly all the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd/3.5 books. I currently run a campaign in the Realms. While I'm not entirely happy with what they have planned for 4th edition, I will still buy the books. |
| Jhiroth02-15-08, 08:49 PM | I will not buy 4E core books. My group and I love the idea that we now have a closed set of rules. Nothing to come out with new rules and change anything. We have all of the 3.5 books (pretty much) so why buy new ones? I have enough 2nd edition material and 3.0/3.5 to last me for decades I do not see the point in sinking more money in when I probably won't use all the material I have now anyway. I may purchase the 4E FRCS though just to see the final result of the changes the new designers came up with because 1) I am intrigued, 2) I think I will not be able to participate in any rational conversation regarding these releases on these boards or anywhere without at least reading what the designers have done, 3) I think it will be helpful (though not necessary) to read the book if I still want to continue reading the FR novels, and 4) I think Rich Baker has written some quality fiction so I should probably give this new edition a chance. Though I will say I am not pleased by most of what I have seen thus far. I think this is pretty much exactly where I am, except I will probably skim the FRCG in the bookstore first, rather then buy it. Interesting. |
| 18DELTA02-16-08, 01:12 AM | In season, my sister's cat on the average annihilates a bird every other day - she's even climbed trees and wiped out entire nests. She a LOT smaller then a normal cat (a little bigger then the average squirrel), and she lost her tail in an accident when she was very young. Between her strange 'looks' and savage demeanor, we've nick-named her Psycho-Cat. Currently we have 'something' living in our attic, and my sis wants me to put her cat up there for a day. I really don't have the heart... or the desire to clean up animal guts when she's 'finished'... :rolleyes: -Hey thats my kinda Cat.:cool: I say let the kitty play with what ever is in the attic...unless its an Orc!:eek: 18DELTA:dancin: |
| Lord Karsus02-16-08, 06:37 AM | I think this is pretty much exactly where I am, except I will probably skim the FRCG in the bookstore first, rather then buy it. Interesting. -That's probably where the majority of us stand, at this point in time. |
| DMD02-18-08, 11:06 AM | Actually I spoke to one of the biggest gaming retailers in New Jersey the other day and he told me pre-orders for 4E core books were strong. He also stated that Gleemax aqnd the online model for gaming is well received by people that come into his store. I told him there was strong sentiment against it on many boards. (I don't know if anyone here ever goes on Paizo boards but many people there have a straight out hatred regarding 4E.) (I think people that play Dragonlance are not happy either that Sovereign Press has had their license lapse, even if they are horrible with release dates the products are pretty quality.) |
| Lord Karsus02-18-08, 11:18 AM | He also stated that Gleemax aqnd the online model for gaming is well received by people that come into his store. -The actual WotC/Gleemax data doesn't really show that. The amount of posters who have joined the site has gone up, but the overall post count has gone down. Compared to years previous, without Gleemax, that is. Which means that people are registering, but not posting, and being constructive. |
| DMD02-18-08, 01:33 PM | Of course the post count could increase once 4E is released... |
| Lord Karsus02-18-08, 01:36 PM | -One scenario, yes. |
| MarkusTay6302-18-08, 01:37 PM | I heard on one of those Animal Planet shows that Sidney is the ONLY major metropolitan city in the world with man-eating animals (Crocodiles) within the city limits. :eek: -What do you do with them once you shoot them? Can you eat them? And, do they really box?Aren't they Rodents? Wouldn't that be just like eating a Rat? :confused: -Now, now, Sage. Osse isn't Australia. It's based off of an amalgamation of Polynesian/Aboriginal culture. :PIt's just like Beatlemania... It isn't really Australia, but just an incredible simulation. :D BTW, Bunyips appeared in the 1e Fiend Folio - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Bunyip.jpg |
| Lord Karsus02-18-08, 02:34 PM | Aren't they Rodents? Wouldn't that be just like eating a Rat? :confused: -People DO do that. |
| Storm_Silverhand02-18-08, 04:34 PM | Heya, I heard on one of those Animal Planet shows that Sidney is the ONLY major metropolitan city in the world with man-eating animals (Crocodiles) within the city limits. :eek: Are you talking about Sydney? I've never heard that. (But what would I know? I live in Melbourne. :)) Aren't they Rodents? Wouldn't that be just like eating a Rat? :confused: They're marsupials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsupial), which are completely different critters. The meat of a Kangaroo is somewhat like beef in appearance, with a gamey taste that's somewhere between beef and lamb, if I had to call it. |
| KnightoftheOldCode02-18-08, 05:21 PM | I will definitely be buying 4E. Having enjoyed the new SAGA Edition of the SWRpg, I fully anticipate a similar breath of fresh air for DnD. I will also be buying the FRCG. That said, I have mixed feelings about the drastic changes in store for the Realms. I started gaming in the Realms years ago. I still love them, but I feel at times like there's simply too much with which to keep up. The weight of Realms' canon can be staggering for someone who doesn't game exclusively there in. I look forward to the changes, but can sympathize with you long time FR fans who don't want their setting changed beyond recognition. I've always felt that the real problem with the setting was that every novel is canon. True, I don't have to include those years of changes in my games, but who wants to fall behind the times/their fellow gamers. There is simply so much history in the novels--most of which I never read--that I've never felt like I could really contribute much to a FR discussion on boards like these. That has definitely put a damper on my enthusiasm for the setting over the years. While I think the setting may have needed a facelift, I'm surprised they didn't simply do away with the silly (IMO) "novels are canon" law. We just had the GHotR published. What better time to freeze canon for a while, letting those of us who are way behind catch up? Instead, they completely reimagine the Realms. (Plus, I'll eventually fall way behind again, as the silly "novels are canon" persists...:rolleyes: ) I think I'll likely enjoy the new Realms, but my heart goes out to those of you who are watching your favorite world change forever. I also have lingering concerns for the future of DnD, as the FR audience is a huge part of DnD, and many of you seem to have been alienated at this point. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-18-08, 05:44 PM | I will definitely be buying 4E. Having enjoyed the new SAGA Edition of the SWRpg, I fully anticipate a similar breath of fresh air for DnD. I will also be buying the FRCG. That said, I have mixed feelings about the drastic changes in store for the Realms. I started gaming in the Realms years ago. I still love them, but I feel at times like there's simply too much with which to keep up. The weight of Realms' canon can be staggering for someone who doesn't game exclusively there in. I look forward to the changes, but can sympathize with you long time FR fans who don't want their setting changed beyond recognition. I've always felt that the real problem with the setting was that every novel is canon. True, I don't have to include those years of changes in my games, but who wants to fall behind the times/their fellow gamers. There is simply so much history in the novels--most of which I never read--that I've never felt like I could really contribute much to a FR discussion on boards like these. That has definitely put a damper on my enthusiasm for the setting over the years. While I think the setting may have needed a facelift, I'm surprised they didn't simply do away with the silly (IMO) "novels are canon" law. We just had the GHotR published. What better time to freeze canon for a while, letting those of us who are way behind catch up? Instead, they completely reimagine the Realms. (Plus, I'll eventually fall way behind again, as the silly "novels are canon" persists...:rolleyes: ) I think I'll likely enjoy the new Realms, but my heart goes out to those of you who are watching your favorite world change forever. I also have lingering concerns for the future of DnD, as the FR audience is a huge part of DnD, and many of you seem to have been alienated at this point. I felt the same way, but being here help you out alot. If you get GHotR tells you all relevant info about the realms. But even then if you ask around here some one is bound to have an answer. people here unlike some may think or say (I'm looking at you MR.!)LOVE to help other players with lore and whatnot. I'm not a FR "lore master" but I can answer a few Q people have or at the very least point you who does. and regarding to cannon: THERE'S NO SUCH THING is your Realms as much as it's mine do what you like with it and HAVE FUN! :D |
| msatran02-18-08, 06:56 PM | My problem is that I don't like the ideas behind 4th edition in general. :) It's flavor. It's the absurd level of cinematicness. The idea that you can have a class whose role is leader. I HATE that idea. A leader comes from roleplaying, not from your character class. And yes, I'll buy it, but only so I can set it on fire or bury it in my yard. Farewell, oh Forgotten Realms. We hardly knew ye. |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 09:15 AM | My problem is that I don't like the ideas behind 4th edition in general. :) -Unfortunatley, I am in the same camp. It's too bad, because it makes me seem like one of those radicals who hate it just on principle, and don't know the first thing about it, when I'm not really like that. But, there's nothing that 4e is doing that I can say I like. At most, I'm neutral. -Maybe the artwork... |
| Alediran02-19-08, 12:48 PM | -Maybe the artwork... If they give us Evermeet and Myth Drannor... |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 01:30 PM | If they give us Evermeet and Myth Drannor... -The artwork they've released thus far for 4e, including the preview books, the stuff in the DRAGON articles, has been pretty good so far. Though, it is a bit realistic, to a degree that I don't entirely like. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-19-08, 02:13 PM | -The artwork they've released thus far for 4e, including the preview books, the stuff in the DRAGON articles, has been pretty good so far. Though, it is a bit realistic, to a degree that I don't entirely like. Meh, art doesn't do nothing for me, besides freaking out the guys showing them a high CR maonter from MM :D |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 02:18 PM | Meh, art doesn't do nothing for me, besides freaking out the guys showing them a high CR maonter from MM :D -When my DM does that, half of the time, most of the players don't even know what it is they are looking at. Depending on a Knowledge: Nature roll, our DM will let the player look at the creature's name, or stats, and so on. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-19-08, 02:53 PM | Man, that's something that my guys do (one of them in particular) they freaking know every stat of every Monster, the only creatures that they don't know are from BoVD and it's because they KNOW I'll literaly break their face if they open that book |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 05:28 PM | Man, that's something that my guys do (one of them in particular) they freaking know every stat of every Monster, the only creatures that they don't know are from BoVD and it's because they KNOW I'll literaly break their face if they open that book -I'd rather have a play who goes, "Tarrasque? Oh crap!" rather than a player who goes, "The Terwhat!?" :cool: |
| sfdragon02-19-08, 05:49 PM | the book of vile trash, you dont like that book or something?? that book was rotten to the core, literally anyway LK, is there a way i can look at the elves of faerun without having to have a log in code where-ever its at?? anyway, if nobody likes 4e realms, there is always castlemourn |
| Lykor02-19-08, 06:11 PM | Didn't Evermeet get retconned away with the whole "it's travelling through time!" thing? |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 07:11 PM | anyway LK, is there a way i can look at the elves of faerun without having to have a log in code where-ever its at?? -You'd have to ask Alediran. It's his website. I just post things. ;) |
| Lord Karsus02-19-08, 07:13 PM | Didn't Evermeet get retconned away with the whole "it's travelling through time!" thing? -Nope. There was a retcon to smooth the incorrect date listed for the Sundering in Lost Empires of Faerûn, that the Sundering tirual reached back and forwards in time, but that's all. |
| Alediran02-19-08, 07:55 PM | anyway LK, is there a way i can look at the elves of faerun without having to have a log in code where-ever its at?? The idea of login is to make people register and participate in the boards if they want to read projects under development, finished projects wil be available for guests to read (and as PDFs in the Downloads section of the website) |
| Shade_Hunter02-19-08, 08:45 PM | Yeah I'll buy 4E, just to annoy the 4E doomsayers. :D |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-20-08, 09:28 AM | -I'd rather have a play who goes, "Tarrasque? Oh crap!" rather than a player who goes, "The Terwhat!?" :cool: Yeah I don't mind that, but they go like "Oh, a minotaur. No problem the have AC17, with 17, HP +11 Atk blah, blah, blah... Or it used to be that way, you know that every DM have their "trademark monters" (My DM LOVES undead), well my trademark monters are NPCs, they can't "stat" them out :D |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-20-08, 09:32 AM | the book of vile trash, you dont like that book or something?? that book was rotten to the core, literally. I Love Book of Vile Darkness! :D that's why I'll kick their ass if they touch it, I don't want them to know the stuff I have in store for them. |
| Lord Karsus02-20-08, 10:06 AM | Yeah I don't mind that, but they go like "Oh, a minotaur. No problem the have AC17, with 17, HP +11 Atk blah, blah, blah... -That's when you penalize your players for metagaming, and you increase the power/stats of the monsters, just to mess with them. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-20-08, 10:21 AM | Meh, Its easier for me (and more fun) to do NPCs , And they way I punish them is that as soon they start Meta gaming I skip their turn for taking a whloe turn "planning" |
| DMD02-20-08, 10:47 AM | Just out of curiosity I went over to EN World messageboards. There is a pretty good feeling about 4E being able to change what was wrong with 3.5. I would say 65% of the posts I read were positive about 4E. (I was surprised at the number of gamers who went from 1E-3.5 and will continue with 4E.) Personally I never felt anything was wrong with 2ed nor 3.5 (never played 1ed) but that is besides the point I suppose. The only knock really I ever had is that other games have more "realistic" combat systems. |
| Kiioro02-20-08, 11:02 AM | I love the BoVD too, it was the first d20 book I ever bought! (I got into RPGs thanks to Vampire). Anyway, it depends a lot on a two facts: A) Any book that isn't sold in every bookstore takes more than a few months to arrive here. B) By that time, I'll have read a whole bunch of criticism and have an idea formed, with a quick view of the pages, I'll make my choice. |
| Lyvannalas02-20-08, 04:43 PM | Buying 4E? Maybe, after I had a really close look at what it is and if it is really better than 3E. I won´t really *use* it for at least 1 1/2 years, because I just started a 3.5 campaign in Aglarond, where I am the DM. Also, I am playing in another 3.5 campaign and there will be one more to come at least. So I am kinda booked out on that account. :P I am very turned off already by all the "Cool! Awesome!" blabbing from the designers, which seems like hype of the worst order, but them not being capable of good marketing to their *established* audience does not mean they are incapable at their *real* job. As for the 4E Realms... I´ll never buy those books. Never, never, never. The designers *clearly* dropped the ball big time on the storyline. The Tymora fiasco, killing Mystra by frikking Cyric and Shar... eeech. :mad: :raincloud :tantrum: :censored: :headexplo :pbbbtt: And to top it, they cave in to Eberron fans immediately and give us the middle finger. Great going, guys, just the way to build costumer loyalty. :mad: Oh, well, at least in *my* Realms this kind of written-by-a-12-year-old-with-ADD bad fanfic crap is not going to happen. I think I am going to go with that idea from Keryth, where Cyric and Shar are offed by Mask and Leiira when trying to kill Mystra. :D Magnus |
| MarkusTay6302-20-08, 04:46 PM | Just out of curiosity I went over to EN World messageboards. There is a pretty good feeling about 4E being able to change what was wrong with 3.5. I would say 65% of the posts I read were positive about 4E. (I was surprised at the number of gamers who went from 1E-3.5 and will continue with 4E.)I was thinking the split over the rules was more like 50/50, but you may be right - I didn't actually take a poll or anything. However, I do get a very general feeling of dislike about 4e FR across the board - anywhere from "not happy about some things" to outright zealous hatred. I think even the folks that are glad about the 4th edition Realms are hesitant about some of what we are hearing. Thats why I think the title of this thread is misleading - there really are two totally differetn 4e's - the rules, and the settings. You can like one, and buy the core books, and still be totally against the other. |
| Lyvannalas02-20-08, 05:18 PM | -Same here. I don't like what they are doing, and vehemently disagree with most of it, but, let's be realists here. Things are going to chug on as always, albeit with a few more hiccups now. I´m sure the writers of the Clone Saga over at Marvel thought the same thing... Michael Brian Bendis, writer par excellence of Ultimate Spiderman, wrote not long ago in an interview that when he killed off Gwen Stacy, fans were so angry that several thousands just up and stopped buying the book. So, Gwen was brought back ( kinda, sorta... the man really knows how to write ), Í´d guess partially because of that. And there are several other instances of angry costumers making managment rethink their decisions. The Batman movie franchise, for example... well, I think I got my point across. |
| Scathlock02-20-08, 05:34 PM | And there are several other instances of angry costumers making managment rethink their decisions. I swear I'd do that if I weren't living in Europe and too busy and phobic of flying. I'd even wear silly elf ears... ;) ...and I'll not buy 4e The-Setting-Formerly-Known-As-Forgotten-Realms either! |
| ikki02-20-08, 05:44 PM | On the lawn? Aw schucks, I should've seen that coming. :weep: but behind the sauna... its a death threat presented in a pleasant fashion. Come over for some sauna, and i can show you the backside of my sauna, im sure youll like it. :D viety joskus saunan taakse? :eek: |
| Lord Karsus02-20-08, 06:58 PM | And to top it, they cave in to Eberron fans immediately and give us the middle finger. Great going, guys, just the way to build costumer loyalty. :mad: -They didn't cave. They never intended on fast forwarding the timeline to begin with, and then made themselves look good to the fan base when they 'decided' to not do it, because they didn't want a time increase. I´m sure the writers of the Clone Saga over at Marvel thought the same thing... -Hey, the Clone Saga was great...:mad: |
| Lyvannalas02-21-08, 01:39 AM | -They didn't cave. They never intended on fast forwarding the timeline to begin with, and then made themselves look good to the fan base when they 'decided' to not do it, because they didn't want a time increase. Well, look at that. Double middle fingers to the audience by them, then. Hey, the Clone Saga was great...:mad: Not for sales, it wasn´t... |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-21-08, 01:51 AM | The Clone Saga almost kill the Franchaise IIRC |
| Lord Karsus02-21-08, 10:44 AM | Well, look at that. Double middle fingers to the audience by them, then. -Just my personal theory, based on the fact that we were told that development for 4e has been in the works for years now, and that the "point of no return" is past. If this part is true, then no amount of complaining, opposition, and what not, is going to sway anyone. Thus, the Eberron designers never intended for the timeline to move forwards. The Clone Saga almost kill the Franchaise IIRC -I...said...the...Clone...Saga...was...gr eat... |
| DMD02-21-08, 10:53 AM | I felt luke warm about the clone saga. I did stop buying for a while though when Norman Osborn somehow got better after being impaled. I am considering not buying now, Brand New Day not so much... More like a 70's retro if you ask me. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin02-21-08, 12:00 PM | Thus, the Eberron designers never intended for the timeline to move forwards. I can believe it. Or, the designers were flirting with the possibility of moving the timeline forward, but never really considered doing that. |
| Lord Karsus02-21-08, 12:16 PM | I can believe it. Or, the designers were flirting with the possibility of moving the timeline forward, but never really considered doing that. -Right, that works too. |
| Lyvannalas02-21-08, 04:05 PM | I...said...the...Clone...Saga...was...gr eat... Well, never read it. At least the 616 version, as I was in Paraguay during that time. Now, the Ultimate version really was good. :) |
| Lord Karsus02-21-08, 04:15 PM | Well, never read it. -I never read the Ultimate Version...Never read any of the Ultimate anythings. -Of course, I was...younger than 10 when the Clone Saga was published, and thus, it gives me happy, warm and fuzzy memories thinking about it. My opinions on it are certainly and 100% biased. |
| Alediran02-21-08, 05:36 PM | Well, never read it. At least the 616 version, as I was in Paraguay during that time. Now, the Ultimate version really was good. :) You were near my country. |
| Lyvannalas02-22-08, 02:06 AM | You were near my country. And for seven years, also. ^^ |
| Jiggawha02-22-08, 03:46 AM | I just read elsewhere that Monte Cook has already done that - he addressed all of the so-called 'problems' the designers had with 3e, and made a bunch of houserules that would modify 3e to be more like 4e, without having to go out and buy the new edition. you mean Arcana Evolved? nothing special |
| MarkusTay6302-22-08, 09:53 AM | No. I meant this -Sorry, I'm usually better then that...The Tome that turns 3e into 4e (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOXM) All for $9. ;)Its called The Book of Experimental Might Comics: I stopped reading Spidey when the Clone Wars happened... it was the last Marvel Title I was reading by then, and that just sort of killed it for me. When the only thing people in charge of an Intellectual property can think of doing is destroying stuff and changing the past, its time to move on. :( |
| Diffan02-22-08, 10:07 AM | No. I meant this -Its called The Book of Experimental Might Comics: I stopped reading Spidey when the Clone Wars happened... it was the last Marvel Title I was reading by then, and that just sort of killed it for me. When the only thing people in charge of an Intellectual property can think of doing is destroying stuff and changing the past, its time to move on. :( That's nifty, though I think I still like the spell point system (the current magic system I use in Realms games) from UA. It allows spellcasters to be more versatile, more magic wielding (aka doing what wizards are supposed to do) and the most wonderful thing, spontaneous casting for clerics doesnt sacrifice a prepared spell. Wow, now clerics aren't penalized for doing what their whole role was meant to do! That being said, I'd probably never go back to the 'true' Vancian system and if 4e can 1 up that, then it's all good. |
| MarkusTay6302-24-08, 11:10 AM | The stuff in UA is EXCELLENT - probably my favorite optional book from core. I hope at least half that stuff makes it into the core rules - I also use both the damage reduction and defense bonus rules (naturally, I run Monks, who benefit the most from wearing no armor). |
| Alediran02-24-08, 01:43 PM | I use the Spellpoints system. |
| Khaelieth02-24-08, 06:54 PM | viety joskus saunan taakse? :eek: Eisa peitaa! |
| Lord Karsus02-24-08, 08:10 PM | -I have Unearthed Arcana, but I've never used anything in it. I need to give it the once over, since I recently got it, and check out if there is anything I want to import into my games... |
| Alediran02-24-08, 08:18 PM | -I have Unearthed Arcana, but I've never used anything in it. I need to give it the once over, since I recently got it, and check out if there is anything I want to import into my games... You'll love the Spellpoint variants. |
| Lord Karsus02-24-08, 08:21 PM | You'll love the Spellpoint variants. -Is it like Psionics? I like the Psionics system, with Power Points, Augmentation, and all that good stuff. |
| Alediran02-24-08, 08:37 PM | Yep, Spellpoints are like Power Points, spells per day for those who prepare spells become the spells readied to use with Spellpoints. Augmentation with Metamagic has also optional rules for use with the spellpoint system. |
| Lord Karsus02-24-08, 08:58 PM | -I will take a look at that, then. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 08:55 AM | One of my players has it and couldn't shut his mouth about the CE "Paladin" (whitch is blasfemy for me) so I just ban the book altogether (but the sorcerer with armor thingy, that's neat;) ) |
| Alediran02-25-08, 10:46 AM | That's silly, just rename it and you are ready. I named the CG Liberator The LE Oppressor The CE Destructor And kept the LG as Paladin. The rest of the book has wonderful alternative rules you should check. |
| Soltares02-25-08, 10:57 AM | Tons of good stuff in UA. The Cloistered Cleric and Battle Sorcerer are fairly popular with some. The Domain Wizard and the Alternate Class Features for Specialist Wizards are also very neat. I also make use of Invocations, for effects that I want in game for storytelling purposes, but don't want easily available on a daily basis. Some of the race variants are neat, as well. I use Fire Hobgoblins, for example, as the mamluke slave-soldiers of the Fire Giant-led militant mountain kingdom. The idea of specialized Summoning lists goes a long way to making Summoning more thematic and cool, and *less* powerful! (Shocking. An option that sacrifices raw utility for extra flavor!) |
| Lord Karsus02-25-08, 12:05 PM | One of my players has it and couldn't shut his mouth about the CE "Paladin" (whitch is blasfemy for me) so I just ban the book altogether (but the sorcerer with armor thingy, that's neat;) ) -It is blasphemy. Hopefully, 4e will just call the class 'Crusader', 'Holy Warrior', or something to that effect, call LG ones Paladins, LE ones Blackguards, and everything inbetween something else. |
| Alediran02-25-08, 12:24 PM | -It is blasphemy. Hopefully, 4e will just call the class 'Crusader', 'Holy Warrior', or something to that effect, call LG ones Paladins, LE ones Blackguards, and everything inbetween something else. I named the CG Liberator The LE Oppressor The CE Destructor And kept the LG as Paladin :D BTW, I'm feeling a LOT better after that big blast I made in the SuperHero effect thread, I'm still amazed at my capacity to burn but without recurring to cheap insults. With the last post I made I surrounded him with his own logic. I'm dying to see how he tries to get out of his own trap. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 12:41 PM | I'm dying to see how he tries to get out of his own trap. :shifty: Well I help him some some :hides: Perdon, no me pegues!:bigeyes: |
| Alediran02-25-08, 01:04 PM | :shifty: Well I help him some some :hides: Perdon, no me pegues!:bigeyes: No, para nada, mira lo que te conteste. You actually helped me in pointing out more inconsistencies :D |
| msatran02-25-08, 02:55 PM | The American Political System has less inconsistencies than 4th edition. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 05:58 PM | @ Alediran As long as we not bashing heads.....;) |
| Alediran02-25-08, 06:50 PM | @ Alediran As long as we not bashing heads.....;) No, I'll just Fireball your hand (part of the job as a Hand of Karsus) *Casts Meteor Swarm* |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 06:52 PM | Good Thing I have my blanket of Fire Resistance over my head :D |
| Alediran02-25-08, 06:55 PM | Good Thing I have my blanket of Fire Resistance over my head :D Fire Resistance is not the same thing as Fire Immunity. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 06:56 PM | -It is blasphemy. Hopefully, 4e will just call the class 'Crusader', 'Holy Warrior', or something to that effect, call LG ones Paladins, LE ones Blackguards, and everything inbetween something else. I always wanted to make a "plead" to Mr. Baker in the "ask The Authors" Thread about that but I'm not that good with words like Green Knight to make it sound reasonamble enough for Mr. Baker to take notice :( |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 06:57 PM | Fire Resistance is not the same thing as Fire Immunity. better to be burned by a match than a Flamethower tho ;) |
| Alediran02-25-08, 10:27 PM | better to be burned by a match than a Flamethower tho ;) And Fire Spells are the most basic spells I have available :D |
| Lord Karsus02-25-08, 11:12 PM | I always wanted to make a "plead" to Mr. Baker in the "ask The Authors" Thread about that but I'm not that good with words like Green Knight to make it sound reasonamble enough for Mr. Baker to take notice :( -I'm sure others have made similar pleas. |
| Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus02-25-08, 11:18 PM | Well I asked again just for my peace of mind (is not like I'm buying 4E anyways) |
| Zsych02-29-08, 12:46 AM | In the group I'm currently playing with... the general impression seems to be more of a slight anticipation for 4E. But we're not playing in FR. |