Asking on behalf of a friend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asking on behalf of a friend [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shiftkitty
09-05-07, 08:12 PM A friend of mine has asked me to ask you guys this question. If you don't want to post any spoilers, go ahead and PM the answer to me so I can pass the answer along.

"Does Errtu die?"

He says he just has to know. Thanks.

PS: I don't mind spoilers. I've got so many books I'm reading right now that by the time I get to whichever one this question refers to, I will have forgotten the answer.
Seraphim of Elves
09-05-07, 10:57 PM No. He's been banished to the Abyss for a hundred years.
Legdiwena
09-06-07, 02:05 PM What book was that from?
MarkusTay63
09-06-07, 02:22 PM The silly one where the bring back the incredibly boring Wulfgar.
Legdiwena
09-06-07, 02:28 PM But where does it say outsiders are banished for 100 years when defeated?
ShadezofDis
09-06-07, 02:37 PM AFAIK that's 2E rules and it's been stated in RAS's books that a fiend who's "killed" on the Prime is banished for 100 years (or 101, I forget).

I think he could be summoned back before that time, by a magic user who is specifically summoning him, but I don't remember the exact details.
Legdiwena
09-06-07, 02:46 PM I remember that from the novel, but it's not in 3.5 is it?
MarkusTay63
09-06-07, 03:04 PM Yes, it is stated that a fiend 'may' return sooner if summoned. That is the 'loophole' that is used to get out of any continuity issues later on down the line.

In fact, Errtu has already come back after the 100-year banishment, so it is pretty meaningless. All he has to do is get a minion to give his name to a stupid mage, and then have the idiot summon him.
ShadezofDis
09-06-07, 03:38 PM Yes, it is stated that a fiend 'may' return sooner if summoned. That is the 'loophole' that is used to get out of any continuity issues later on down the line.

In fact, Errtu has already come back after the 100-year banishment, so it is pretty meaningless. All he has to do is get a minion to give his name to a stupid mage, and then have the idiot summon him.

Which, AFAIK, has always been true. But I'm not 100% sure.

And getting minions from the Abyss to the Prime in order to find a gullible mage should be much harder than it's been shown. At least IMO. :)
bondious
09-06-07, 03:42 PM I might be mistaken, but I THINK that Drizzt somehow ended Errtu's first 100 year banishment, from when he took the balor out in 'The Crystal Shard'. When Drizzt and Catti-brie were with Cadderly at the Spirit Soaring, in 'Passage to Dawn' I think, Drizzt had Cadderly summon Errtu to answer some questions, and to confirm Drizzt's mistaken belief that Errtu had Zaknafain. Because of this summons, at the request of the one who banished him, the 100 years of banishment was lifted, thus enabling Errtu to be summoned once again, which he was able to make happen by having his lackeys drop his name whenever possible, playing down the fact that "Errtu" was a balor. Errtu was soon after summoned by a weakling mage, who was easily overcome, and the balor was then free in the Material Plane, found the Crystal Shard, and set up a trap for Drizzt and company.

That's the way I've always understood it, in any event.

As for Errtu's current state of afairs, he was indeed beaten in 'Passage to Dawn' by the combined efforts of Drizzt, Bruenor and their newly found Wulfgar. I don't remember who struck the final blow, either Drizzt or Wulfgar I'm thinking, and now I'm thinking that Errtu's banished anew for 100 years...unless Salvatore's going to change the rules of his "world". :rolleyes:
ShadezofDis
09-07-07, 12:34 PM Yep, that's how I remember it going down.

I'm not sure if it's the being who defeated you that has to initiate the summoning though or if it could be anyone.

And I don't know what the situation for this is in 3E.
MarkusTay63
09-07-07, 01:44 PM So what it boils down to when you send any greater fiend packing is that you've just made a BAD enemy who will probably be back fairly soon.

The "hundred year thing" is only effective against low-levs.
KnightoftheWhiteRose
09-07-07, 07:57 PM all very interesting stuff, i have a question to ask. i dont have alot of FR novels and havnt followed the series in a few years but heres my question.

what novel does wulfgar get captured by Errtu and what novel does wulfgar get released in? is there a novel telling the tale of his torment at Errtu hands and his minions.

i have the following novels, i am looking for other novels that may include this information.
Spine of the World
Servant of the Shard
Silent Blade
Sea of Swords

Complete Clerics Qintet Series. all 5 books.

The Hunters Blade Trilogy (all 3 books)

outside those novels my knowledge of FR is very limited so any help would be great!

also what novels follow the Two Swords?

thanks for any and all replies.:)
MarkHall
09-07-07, 10:57 PM So what it boils down to when you send any greater fiend packing is that you've just made a BAD enemy who will probably be back fairly soon.

The "hundred year thing" is only effective against low-levs.

Eh, depends on this. If I were a greater fiend, I would be leery of having my name in the minds of mortals. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead" and all that.
MarkusTay63
09-07-07, 11:04 PM Thats why I specifically said that a minion (Imp?) would whisper the fiend's name into the ear of a stupid mage...

this way, when he screws up the summoning, the fiend has a nice snack waiting when he first arrives. :D
Red_Wizard
09-07-07, 11:57 PM If a demon dies anywhere but in the abyss, it is sentenced to 101 years banishment on it's home layer. If however it is killed within the abyss itself, it simply fades into nothingness, and is truly destroyed.

Errtu was indeed released from his first 100 years banishment-- as it was 100 years in 2nd ed, vs 101 in 3.5-- but was killed by Cadderly IIRC, while torturing him for info in the Spirit Soaring.

Only the person who destroyed the demon-- ie: dealt the fatal blow-- can release the fiend from its sentence. So whispering the fiends name to some low level nobody will do little to help anything.
ShadezofDis
09-08-07, 06:32 PM Do you remember where you found that info on Demons/Outsiders being banished rather than killed Red? I looked through a few books quickly but didn't see anything in my 3E collection that dealt with this situation.

And AFAIR Cadderly had nothing to do with destroying Errtu, he just summoned him to get the info then banished him back to the Abyss, then Errtu managed to get himself summoned afterwards.

I'd need to do a reread to really be sure about the situation. . . and to be honest, I don't care enough to read some RAS right now. ;D
MarkusTay63
09-08-07, 08:06 PM If I remember correctly, Drizzt was in on the first summons, which in turn followed the rules about the banisher releasing the fiend from the 'sentence'. Afterword, he could probably get anyone to bring him back to Toril with a simple Gate spell.

I think fiends can't gate themselves to the prime, but they can gate in others once there.

Not 100% sure about any of that though - its mostly novel stuff and not 'rules' stuff - outsiders were never my strong point.
Dark Wizard
09-08-07, 11:37 PM Either way, with the direction the Realms is heading into, Errtu exceeded his 100-year ban by the time of the Orc King prologue. He's baaack!
Eccerion
09-13-07, 04:56 AM I think fiends can't gate themselves to the prime, but they can gate in others once there.

Not 100% sure about any of that though - its mostly novel stuff and not 'rules' stuff - outsiders were never my strong point.

Your partly correct, demons and devils cant planeshift or gate themselves to any plane they want to go to the way some angels and their ilk can, and a good thing too or the prime would be up to its eyeballs and the abyss would be empty:D
What demons can do however is SUMMON more of their kind. the big differance between being gated and summoned is that a summoned creature is "safe" on the plane its summoned too, if it should be "killed" it would simply go POP and find itself back on its home plane no worse for wear.

In 2E any gated outsider defeated on th eprime would be unable to reenter for 101 years unless the one who defeated it gave it permission, thus the only way to truly get rid of a demon permanently was to track it down on its own plane and kill it there, not something most sane people would attempt.

In 3E however the rules have slightly changed: summoned creatures (those brought forth by summon monster and similar spells) are still safe, but any outsiders brought in through the use of Gate or the planar ally spells would be truly dead if it is killed on the plane it is summoned to, hence why they charge for their services.

Errtu was crafty in that he made sure his minions didnt spread the word he was a Balor, since knowing an outsiders true name grants you power over it, in the form of bonuses to many summoning related spells vs the outsider in question. The mage who summoned Errtu however probably thought he'd be dealing with an imp or something, much to his chagrin what cam out wasnt what he was capable of handling.

Just goes to show the when your going to play with summoning, a little research goes along way, so you know what will be comming at you before you press the "summon" button ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiftkitty 09-05-07, 08:12 PM	A friend of mine has asked me to ask you guys this question. If you don't want to post any spoilers, go ahead and PM the answer to me so I can pass the answer along. "Does Errtu die?" He says he just has to know. Thanks. PS: I don't mind spoilers. I've got so many books I'm reading right now that by the time I get to whichever one this question refers to, I will have forgotten the answer.
Seraphim of Elves 09-05-07, 10:57 PM	No. He's been banished to the Abyss for a hundred years.
Legdiwena 09-06-07, 02:05 PM	What book was that from?
MarkusTay63 09-06-07, 02:22 PM	The silly one where the bring back the incredibly boring Wulfgar.
Legdiwena 09-06-07, 02:28 PM	But where does it say outsiders are banished for 100 years when defeated?
ShadezofDis 09-06-07, 02:37 PM	AFAIK that's 2E rules and it's been stated in RAS's books that a fiend who's "killed" on the Prime is banished for 100 years (or 101, I forget). I think he could be summoned back before that time, by a magic user who is specifically summoning him, but I don't remember the exact details.
Legdiwena 09-06-07, 02:46 PM	I remember that from the novel, but it's not in 3.5 is it?
MarkusTay63 09-06-07, 03:04 PM	Yes, it is stated that a fiend 'may' return sooner if summoned. That is the 'loophole' that is used to get out of any continuity issues later on down the line. In fact, Errtu has already come back after the 100-year banishment, so it is pretty meaningless. All he has to do is get a minion to give his name to a stupid mage, and then have the idiot summon him.
ShadezofDis 09-06-07, 03:38 PM	Yes, it is stated that a fiend 'may' return sooner if summoned. That is the 'loophole' that is used to get out of any continuity issues later on down the line. In fact, Errtu has already come back after the 100-year banishment, so it is pretty meaningless. All he has to do is get a minion to give his name to a stupid mage, and then have the idiot summon him. Which, AFAIK, has always been true. But I'm not 100% sure. And getting minions from the Abyss to the Prime in order to find a gullible mage should be much harder than it's been shown. At least IMO. :)
bondious 09-06-07, 03:42 PM	I might be mistaken, but I THINK that Drizzt somehow ended Errtu's first 100 year banishment, from when he took the balor out in 'The Crystal Shard'. When Drizzt and Catti-brie were with Cadderly at the Spirit Soaring, in 'Passage to Dawn' I think, Drizzt had Cadderly summon Errtu to answer some questions, and to confirm Drizzt's mistaken belief that Errtu had Zaknafain. Because of this summons, at the request of the one who banished him, the 100 years of banishment was lifted, thus enabling Errtu to be summoned once again, which he was able to make happen by having his lackeys drop his name whenever possible, playing down the fact that "Errtu" was a balor. Errtu was soon after summoned by a weakling mage, who was easily overcome, and the balor was then free in the Material Plane, found the Crystal Shard, and set up a trap for Drizzt and company. That's the way I've always understood it, in any event. As for Errtu's current state of afairs, he was indeed beaten in 'Passage to Dawn' by the combined efforts of Drizzt, Bruenor and their newly found Wulfgar. I don't remember who struck the final blow, either Drizzt or Wulfgar I'm thinking, and now I'm thinking that Errtu's banished anew for 100 years...unless Salvatore's going to change the rules of his "world". :rolleyes:
ShadezofDis 09-07-07, 12:34 PM	Yep, that's how I remember it going down. I'm not sure if it's the being who defeated you that has to initiate the summoning though or if it could be anyone. And I don't know what the situation for this is in 3E.
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 01:44 PM	So what it boils down to when you send any greater fiend packing is that you've just made a BAD enemy who will probably be back fairly soon. The "hundred year thing" is only effective against low-levs.
KnightoftheWhiteRose 09-07-07, 07:57 PM	all very interesting stuff, i have a question to ask. i dont have alot of FR novels and havnt followed the series in a few years but heres my question. what novel does wulfgar get captured by Errtu and what novel does wulfgar get released in? is there a novel telling the tale of his torment at Errtu hands and his minions. i have the following novels, i am looking for other novels that may include this information. Spine of the World Servant of the Shard Silent Blade Sea of Swords Complete Clerics Qintet Series. all 5 books. The Hunters Blade Trilogy (all 3 books) outside those novels my knowledge of FR is very limited so any help would be great! also what novels follow the Two Swords? thanks for any and all replies.:)
MarkHall 09-07-07, 10:57 PM	So what it boils down to when you send any greater fiend packing is that you've just made a BAD enemy who will probably be back fairly soon. The "hundred year thing" is only effective against low-levs. Eh, depends on this. If I were a greater fiend, I would be leery of having my name in the minds of mortals. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead" and all that.
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 11:04 PM	Thats why I specifically said that a minion (Imp?) would whisper the fiend's name into the ear of a stupid mage... this way, when he screws up the summoning, the fiend has a nice snack waiting when he first arrives. :D
Red_Wizard 09-07-07, 11:57 PM	If a demon dies anywhere but in the abyss, it is sentenced to 101 years banishment on it's home layer. If however it is killed within the abyss itself, it simply fades into nothingness, and is truly destroyed. Errtu was indeed released from his first 100 years banishment-- as it was 100 years in 2nd ed, vs 101 in 3.5-- but was killed by Cadderly IIRC, while torturing him for info in the Spirit Soaring. Only the person who destroyed the demon-- ie: dealt the fatal blow-- can release the fiend from its sentence. So whispering the fiends name to some low level nobody will do little to help anything.
ShadezofDis 09-08-07, 06:32 PM	Do you remember where you found that info on Demons/Outsiders being banished rather than killed Red? I looked through a few books quickly but didn't see anything in my 3E collection that dealt with this situation. And AFAIR Cadderly had nothing to do with destroying Errtu, he just summoned him to get the info then banished him back to the Abyss, then Errtu managed to get himself summoned afterwards. I'd need to do a reread to really be sure about the situation. . . and to be honest, I don't care enough to read some RAS right now. ;D
MarkusTay63 09-08-07, 08:06 PM	If I remember correctly, Drizzt was in on the first summons, which in turn followed the rules about the banisher releasing the fiend from the 'sentence'. Afterword, he could probably get anyone to bring him back to Toril with a simple Gate spell. I think fiends can't gate themselves to the prime, but they can gate in others once there. Not 100% sure about any of that though - its mostly novel stuff and not 'rules' stuff - outsiders were never my strong point.
Dark Wizard 09-08-07, 11:37 PM	Either way, with the direction the Realms is heading into, Errtu exceeded his 100-year ban by the time of the Orc King prologue. He's baaack!
Eccerion 09-13-07, 04:56 AM	I think fiends can't gate themselves to the prime, but they can gate in others once there. Not 100% sure about any of that though - its mostly novel stuff and not 'rules' stuff - outsiders were never my strong point. Your partly correct, demons and devils cant planeshift or gate themselves to any plane they want to go to the way some angels and their ilk can, and a good thing too or the prime would be up to its eyeballs and the abyss would be empty:D What demons can do however is SUMMON more of their kind. the big differance between being gated and summoned is that a summoned creature is "safe" on the plane its summoned too, if it should be "killed" it would simply go POP and find itself back on its home plane no worse for wear. In 2E any gated outsider defeated on th eprime would be unable to reenter for 101 years unless the one who defeated it gave it permission, thus the only way to truly get rid of a demon permanently was to track it down on its own plane and kill it there, not something most sane people would attempt. In 3E however the rules have slightly changed: summoned creatures (those brought forth by summon monster and similar spells) are still safe, but any outsiders brought in through the use of Gate or the planar ally spells would be truly dead if it is killed on the plane it is summoned to, hence why they charge for their services. Errtu was crafty in that he made sure his minions didnt spread the word he was a Balor, since knowing an outsiders true name grants you power over it, in the form of bonuses to many summoning related spells vs the outsider in question. The mage who summoned Errtu however probably thought he'd be dealing with an imp or something, much to his chagrin what cam out wasnt what he was capable of handling. Just goes to show the when your going to play with summoning, a little research goes along way, so you know what will be comming at you before you press the "summon" button ;)