Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-29-08, 04:42 PM	Just because it just poped in to my head how would Black Adam's powers would work in The Realms, Then I just wondered this? WHO would win between Black Adam and Elminster.:D
sfdragon 01-29-08, 04:52 PM	who is black adam???? Dr. Strange would win
Kenzuki 01-29-08, 05:24 PM	I've got a better one. Elminster vs Karsus My bet is on Karsus:D
Rauric 01-29-08, 05:28 PM	Both are crazy but El has a bit humility than Karsus.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-29-08, 05:57 PM	Is a DC Comics "bad guy", Think a Magic powered Superman
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-29-08, 05:58 PM	Both are crazy but El has a bit humility than Karsus. Maybe but El doesn't have a cool "face covering hood". :emp:
Kenzuki 01-29-08, 05:59 PM	Both are crazy but El has a bit humility than Karsus. No I mean Karsus would kill Elminster, Chosen or not. He's a level 40 spellcaster! Though I'm gussing his 3.5 stats would be as follows. 30th level wizard 5th level archmage 5th level netherese arcanist I think he could beat Elminster. Plus he became a god!:D
18DELTA 01-29-08, 09:11 PM	Maybe but El doesn't have a cool "face covering hood":emp: -Fixed it for ya.;) 18DELTA:P
Lord Karsus 01-29-08, 09:46 PM	-We are discussing Black Adam versus Thor in the Rec-Room. I came to this startling discovery: -Jumble up the letters in 'Thor', add a random 'W' and 'A', while subtracting the 'O', and you come up with 'Wrath'. Jumble up the letters in 'Black Adam', add a random 'U' and 'H', while subtracting the 'L' and one of the 'A's, and you come up with, 'A Dumb Hack'. Clearly, Thor is more badass. I've got a better one. Elminster vs Karsus -There really isn't any contest...
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-30-08, 06:14 AM	-Fixed it for ya.;) 18DELTA:P Thanks @ Lord Karsus: :rofl: that makes no sense, still funny though
Alleran 01-30-08, 08:12 AM	Does Elminster rip people in half on national TV? No? I thought not. ;)
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 11:25 AM	Does anyone remember the made for TV Thor vs the Hulk movie that came out in like the 80's early 90's? The one where the Hulk throws Thor around like a rag doll?
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 11:28 AM	@ Lord Karsus: :rofl: that makes no sense, still funny though -Thik about it...think about it...:cool: Does anyone remember the made for TV Thor vs the Hulk movie that came out in like the 80's early 90's? The one where the Hulk throws Thor around like a rag doll? -No. I remember the Hulk cartoon, but I don't this... -Hulk wouldn't beat Thor, though.
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 11:33 AM	I think he would. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWmHEF_PT8E
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 11:41 AM	I think he would. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWmHEF_PT8E -Oh, G-d. My eyes are burning. Holy crap, that was crappy, in so many ways. -No, Thor would beat Hulk. Hulk is lucky that Thor wasn't around during World War Hulk. I mean, Thor is a deity.
dethmetal 01-30-08, 12:12 PM	-Jumble up the letters in 'Thor', add a random 'W' and 'A', while subtracting the 'O', and you come up with 'Wrath'. Jumble up the letters in 'Black Adam', add a random 'U' and 'H', while subtracting the 'L' and one of the 'A's, and you come up with, 'A Dumb Hack'. Clearly, Thor is more badass. I LoL'ed.
MarkusTay63 01-30-08, 01:06 PM	Superman beat Thor, and even later hefted his hammer (along with Captain America's shield in his off-hand). http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Superman_Thor.jpg He said it was toughest fight of his life, but then again, he said the exact thing about The Hulk in an earlier cross-over. The Hulk has single-handedly battled the Avengers numerous times, including Thor, so I think he's a little tougher (given enough time). Even Superman said if he allowed him to continue getting angrier, eventually the Hulk would have been far stronger then him. In the Secret Wars series, the hulk held up a mountian range on another planet - and the mountain range was HEAVIER then Earth. Sure, thats pure-Bullsh_t... but it happened. ;) Don't know who Black Adam is, but if he entered Realmspace, El would kick his _ss!
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 02:08 PM	Superman beat Thor, and even later hefted his hammer (along with Captain Ameria's shield in his off-hand). -Of course. What can't Superman do? :rolleyes:
dethmetal 01-30-08, 02:09 PM	-Of course. What can't Superman do? :rolleyes: his taxes?
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 02:13 PM	his taxes? -See the April '73 issue, Superman vs. the IRS.
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 02:14 PM	-Of course. What can't Superman do? :rolleyes: Realize that you don't walk up to Lex Luthor and engage in dialogue with him until he pulls out Kryptonite for the 51st time. You fly in at the speed of light and crush his skull in.
dethmetal 01-30-08, 02:20 PM	also...he can't shave with a regular razor.
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 02:32 PM	-See the April '73 issue, Superman vs. the IRS. Superman lost, hard.....
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 02:37 PM	Superman lost, hard..... -Actually, no, not as bad as it seemed in that issue. There was a follow-up to that story in the June '73 issue, where the IRS actually admitted to making an error while auditing Clark. So, the two superpowers butted heads, but no one came out the winner or loser.
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 02:43 PM	Doesn't anyone find it funny that no one knew who Superman really was considering the only thing he did to hide his identity was put on a pair of glasses.....I mean are the forces of evil THAT stupid!?
Lord Karsus 01-30-08, 02:49 PM	Doesn't anyone find it funny that no one knew who Superman really was considering the only thing he did to hide his identity was put on a pair of glasses.....I mean are the forces of evil THAT stupid!? -When I take off my glasses, no one recognizes me either, so...
Darth_Khan 01-30-08, 02:55 PM	Superman beat Thor, and even later hefted his hammer (along with Captain Ameria's shield in his off-hand). Yes he did, but at the end of that issue, when Superman went to pick up the hammer and hand it back to Thor, he couldn't. Why? Cause Superman, the golden boy of DC isn't WORTHY to to wield the hammer...at least not in a non multiverse threatening situation. That said, Black Adam is powered by 7 gods, totally whups the El.
Darth_Khan 01-30-08, 03:08 PM	Doesn't anyone find it funny that no one knew who Superman really was considering the only thing he did to hide his identity was put on a pair of glasses.....I mean are the forces of evil THAT stupid!? I don't remember the issue number, but in a issue of Action Comics (i think) one of Lex Luthor's computers upon analyzing all know data on Superman comes to the conclusion that Superman is Clark Kent. Lex summarily rejects this conclusion, with the reasoning that no one of of Superman's powers and abilities would be able to humble themselves and pretend to be a "no one" like Kent. So evil in comics, may not be stupid, but very arrogant..hence it's downfall.
dethmetal 01-30-08, 03:13 PM	-Actually, no, not as bad as it seemed in that issue. There was a follow-up to that story in the June '73 issue, where the IRS actually admitted to making an error while auditing Clark. So, the two superpowers butted heads, but no one came out the winner or loser. When you're getting audited by the IRS you never win, even if they decide you don't owe anything extra you've somehow lost. they're that evil.
Storm_Silverhand 01-30-08, 05:02 PM	Heya, I don't really see what relevance to the Realms this thread has, but... Black Adam would be stomped by El, at least right at the moment. He is powerless at the moment. One of the members of the other Marvel family, Mary, currently has his powers.
Kenzuki 01-30-08, 05:08 PM	Heya, I don't really see what relevance to the Realms this thread has, but... Black Adam would be stomped by El, at least right at the moment. He is powerless at the moment. One of the members of the other Marvel family, Mary, currently has his powers. We don't know how powerful El is post Spellplague, so we can't be sure. El is no longer a Chosen of Mystra so he might have taken a hit in power. He might just be a powerless old man for all we know.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:29 AM	He is powerless at the moment. One of the members of the other Marvel family, Mary, currently has his powers. -Which? Mary-Sue? Ehehehehe...
MarkusTay63 01-31-08, 01:24 AM	Why do so many super beings WITHOUT lightning-based powers have lightning bolts on their chests? :confused:
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 01:27 AM	Why do so many super beings WITHOUT lightning-based powers have lightning bolts on their chests? :confused: -Flash, Quicksilver, Shazaam (?)...
Alleran 01-31-08, 01:32 AM	-No, Thor would beat Hulk. Hulk is lucky that Thor wasn't around during World War Hulk. I mean, Thor is a deity. Thor tried to kill Hulk in Hulk #300, IIRC. Not just defeat - he was going for the kill. Yes he did, but at the end of that issue, when Superman went to pick up the hammer and hand it back to Thor, he couldn't. Why? Cause Superman, the golden boy of DC isn't WORTHY to to wield the hammer...at least not in a non multiverse threatening situation. In order to wield Mjolnir, according to the rules of the Marvel Universe, you have to be willing to do absolutely anything to protect/save your people - which is why those such as Beta Ray Bill can lift Mjolnir. Superman, however, refuses to kill, and is disqualified under those reasons. The multiverse situation was a special scenario. Normally, because he won't kill (DC always seems to retcon his kills away as "not actually happening" or "not counting"), he can't lift the hammer. Wonder Woman, however, could (she is willing to kill). I don't remember the issue number, but in a issue of Action Comics (i think) one of Lex Luthor's computers upon analyzing all know data on Superman comes to the conclusion that Superman is Clark Kent. Lex summarily rejects this conclusion, with the reasoning that no one of of Superman's powers and abilities would be able to humble themselves and pretend to be a "no one" like Kent. It was an old John Byrne story. I forget which. Part of the reason that people don't attach "Superman" to "Clark Kent" is because of their massive personality differences (Clark's bumbling, Supes is, well, godly), the way they carry themselves, and partly in how people view Superman. They don't see him as somebody who could ever go around in disguise. Clark has had people comment that he looks a bit like Superman, but they just don't make the connection. People reading the comic books do, because to us, it's obvious, but in-universe, it's different. :) -Flash, Quicksilver, Shazaam (?)... Shazam (old magician) can transform via a lightning bolt if he speaks the word Vlarem. Generally, though, the lightning bolt is meant to epitomise speed. Hence the common phrase "he moves like lightning".
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 01:36 AM	Shazam (old magician) can transform via a lightning bolt if he speaks the word Vlarem. -Wasn't sure if his powers were actually tied to lightning.
Alleran 01-31-08, 01:46 AM	-Wasn't sure if his powers were actually tied to lightning. He has the same ability that Billy Batson, Teth-Adam and the rest of the Marvel/Black Marvel family have: he can transform into a champion empowered by seven ancient gods. His word is "Vlarem", just like "Shazam" is Billy's and Teth's (though, amusingly enough, at the end of the Black Adam six-issue series, it was revealed that when BA had his word removed initially, Marvel actually had it changed to "Chocolate Egg Creams" - he transferred all his power to Mary Marvel later on, in Countdown). On top of that power, Shazam has even more magical backup, plus his role as Guardian of the Rock of Eternity (although Billy is now just "Marvel" and took over that role after Shazam and the Spectre went at it in Day of Vengeance*). * Shazam even proved himself to be (with prep time) able to take on Spectre and match him temporarily. Spectre still killed him eventually, though.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 01:55 AM	-I know nothing of DC, and would only pick up a DC comic if: 1) I had a very good incentive to do so 2) The world was in peril (ties to point 1, but more extreme) 3) Didn't have any newspapers for my dogs.
Alleran 01-31-08, 06:03 AM	Heh. In terms of getting comic issues, I'm exactly the reverse at the moment - I'm boycotting Marvel as a result of them not having anything that interests me (Thor vol. 3 is mildly interesting, but it's moving too slowly), doing what they said they wouldn't do (major crossover after major crossover, world-changing retcons), and destroying (for me) Spiderman. Plus I generally like DC more than Marvel. It's just much, much, much more pronounced at the moment.
Rauric 01-31-08, 08:51 AM	I think Adam now has some powers like before.
GreenKnight 01-31-08, 11:37 AM	he can transform into a champion empowered by seven ancient gods. Six gods, not seven. * Shazam even proved himself to be (with prep time) able to take on Spectre and match him temporarily. Spectre still killed him eventually, though. Unfortunately for him, he'd been weakened in a fight against Mordru right before the fight with the Spectre (happened in a JSA issue), so that didn't help. Originally Posted by Lord Karsus -Jumble up the letters in 'Thor', add a random 'W' and 'A', while subtracting the 'O', and you come up with 'Wrath'. Jumble up the letters in 'Black Adam', add a random 'U' and 'H', while subtracting the 'L' and one of the 'A's, and you come up with, 'A Dumb Hack'. Clearly, Thor is more badass. Jumble up the letters in "Karsus", add a random 'c' and 's', while subtracting the 'r', and you get 'Suckass'. :P Anyway, THIS (http://members.cox.net/psychopracter/images/ICBA1.jpg) is Black Adam. When he speaks the magic word "Shazam" he becomes Black Adam, and gains the Stamina of Shu, the Swiftness of Heru, the Strength of Amon, the Wisdom of Zehuti, the Power of Aton, and the Courage of Mehen. And yes, he could most definitely kill Elminster.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 12:26 PM	Jumble up the letters in "Karsus", add a random 'c' and 's', while subtracting the 'r', and you get 'Suckass'. :P -Jumble up the letters in 'GreenKnight', add two random 'D's, 'C', and 'A', while subtracting the 'G's, the 'R', an 'E', the 'N's, the 'K' and the 'T', and, well...;)
Bonzai 01-31-08, 12:34 PM	How good are Black Adams saves?
Khaelieth 01-31-08, 01:23 PM	-Originally Posted by Lord Karsus -Jumble up the letters in 'Thor', add a random 'W' and 'A', while subtracting the 'O', and you come up with 'Wrath'. Jumble up the letters in 'Black Adam', add a random 'U' and 'H', while subtracting the 'L' and one of the 'A's, and you come up with, 'A Dumb Hack'. Clearly, Thor is more badass... You can easily get something funnier; swap the T for a W, and add an E.
GreenKnight 01-31-08, 04:37 PM	-Jumble up the letters in 'GreenKnight', add two random 'D's, 'C', and 'A', while subtracting the 'G's, the 'R', an 'E', the 'N's, the 'K' and the 'T', and, well...;) Subtracting eight letters out of 11 and adding four letters in return? You lose, Karsus. This post is made of 'FAIL'! :P Incidentally, after all that, you still misspelled it (Leave the 'K' in and you'll get it right). :D You can easily get something funnier; swap the T for a W, and add an E. :heehee:heehee:heehee How good are Black Adams saves? This reminds me of a crazy idea I had a while back. Namely that I wanted to run a game which took place in the Palladium Fantasy world (Which I really liked, although I think the rules system is absolutely abysmal), but play it with the Mutants & Masterminds rules, instead. The twist, though, is that the PC's would play fantasy versions of Justice Society of America characters. Captain Marvel could be 'The Champion of Light', the Flash could be 'Garrick Swiftfoot', Hourman could be 'The Knight of Hours' (Or The Hour Knight), Starman could be 'The Knight of Stars' (Or The Star Knight), Hawkgirl could be 'Lady Hawk', and of course, Green Lantern could be 'The Green Knight'. :) To bad my old gaming group isn't still around. Otherwise I would've had a readymade group to test this crazy idea on.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 04:55 PM	Subtracting eight letters out of 11 and adding four letters in return? You lose, Karsus. This post is made of 'FAIL'! :P -Who says there has to be an equal ratio? It just has to be funny, clever and/or witty. Incidentally, after all that, you still misspelled it (Leave the 'K' in and you'll get it right). :D -Damn it, I knew I was going to misspell something doing that eventually.
Warning 01-31-08, 05:47 PM	Master Chief would rock both of em.http://youtube.com/watch?v=uCsdPszJLNQ
GreenKnight 01-31-08, 06:15 PM	-Who says there has to be an equal ratio? It just has to be funny, clever and/or witty. The goal is to rearrange a name in an insulting way while making only a small number of changes. When you have to take out pretty much every single letter in the name, it defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. That, my young Padawan, is why you fail. -Damn it, I knew I was going to misspell something doing that eventually. And your failures continue to mount. At this rate, the world shall soon be mine! :evillaugh
Alleran 01-31-08, 06:35 PM	Six gods, not seven. Gah. Don't know where seven came from. Must have miscounted somehow. Unfortunately for him, he'd been weakened in a fight against Mordru right before the fight with the Spectre (happened in a JSA issue), so that didn't help. I didn't start picking up JSA until the current run. Which issue?
GreenKnight 01-31-08, 06:51 PM	I think it happened in JSA #78-80. One of those three. And you've gotta pick up the TPB's for the previous JSA series (Except for the last one which features a really weak story written by Levitz). It was fantastic. It's what got me back into comics after a 10 year hiatus, and I absolutely love that team in every way.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 07:54 PM	The goal is to rearrange a name in an insulting way while making only a small number of changes. When you have to take out pretty much every single letter in the name, it defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. That, my young Padawan, is why you fail. And your failures continue to mount. At this rate, the world shall soon be mine! :evillaugh -Just remember who you signed your soul and your little sister to...;)
Warning 01-31-08, 08:01 PM	-Just remember who you signed your soul and your little sister to...;) BANG! BANG! FIRE FEIR! http://youtube.com/watch?v=qxUZUnRwH7s
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 08:14 PM	-Of course, that has nothing to do with anything.
Darth_Khan 01-31-08, 08:24 PM	Gah. Don't know where seven came from. Must have miscounted somehow. I didn't start picking up JSA until the current run. Which issue? Yeah I was thinking it was 7 as well, and I used to work at a Comic Book Shop. Generally I like Marvel characters more, but damn DC has been on a role in the last few years with very good stories.
Warning 01-31-08, 09:10 PM	-Of course, that has nothing to do with anything. On the contrary my friend, everything has to do with something. Choose your words carefully. "Has to do with FR?": No
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 09:42 PM	Yeah I was thinking it was 7 as well, and I used to work at a Comic Book Shop. -I'd never be able to do that. For whatever reason, I don't get along very well with people who really like the same things I do. I'd probably end up punching someone who came to me and started telling my why, say, Flash is better than Quicksilver, or something like that. Happens to me with Star Wars, happens to me with RPGs (as in video games), and it used to happen to me when I liked anime. On the contrary my friend, everything has to do with something. Choose your words carefully. "Has to do with FR?": No -Good point. You did quote my post, however, so one would assume it would have had something to do with what I said.
Alleran 01-31-08, 10:56 PM	I'd probably end up punching someone who came to me and started telling my why, say, Flash is better than Quicksilver, or something like that. Quicksilver maxes out at Mach 5. Flash can not only go FTL with ease (avoiding all the negative effects that go with lightspeed) and hit somebody with an 'Infinite Mass Punch (does what it says on the tin), but he can also vibrate himself intangible and invisible (and walk on water, create whirlwinds, etc etc), take kinetic energy from others and use it to increase his speed even further, etc, etc, etc. And to top it all off, he actually made his clothes out of 'goes fast'. Sorry. Couldn't resist. :D
Darth_Khan 01-31-08, 11:02 PM	-I'd never be able to do that. For whatever reason, I don't get along very well with people who really like the same things I do. I'd probably end up punching someone who came to me and started telling my why, say, Flash is better than Quicksilver, or something like that. Happens to me with Star Wars, happens to me with RPGs (as in video games), and it used to happen to me when I liked anime. I was the RPG guy there so every one who came through and was into gaming would want to talk to me about there characters, game, what have you. Now, as you may have guessed since I am on this board, I love role playing. I love talking about Role Playing. I can have discussions for hours and hours about characters, rules games, conversely I can discuss Comics or wrestling for hours as well. Know ye this, tho, there are Gamer/Comic trolls who haunt your local game/comic shop. The stalk others seeking to trap them in inane conversations. THE HORROR!! THE HORROR!!!
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 11:14 PM	Quicksilver maxes out at Mach 5. Flash can not only go FTL with ease (avoiding all the negative effects that go with lightspeed) and hit somebody with an 'Infinite Mass Punch (does what it says on the tin), but he can also vibrate himself intangible and invisible (and walk on water, create whirlwinds, etc etc), take kinetic energy from others and use it to increase his speed even further, etc, etc, etc. And to top it all off, he actually made his clothes out of 'goes fast'. Sorry. Couldn't resist. :D http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/icon/15663.gif ...conversely I can discuss Comics or wrestling for hours as well. -Kane with the mask, when he was first introduced, is far superior to the current Kane.
Darth_Khan 01-31-08, 11:47 PM	http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/icon/15663.gif -Kane with the mask, when he was first introduced, is far superior to the current Kane. Well, tho I HATED the way he just ripped the cage door off in the first hell in a Cell match, mute burn victim Kane is much better than pseudo creepy bad hair cut Kane. I honestly don't watch much WWE anymore, I mostly watch ROH, IWA-MS, PWG, or Puroresu.
Lord Karsus 01-31-08, 11:55 PM	Well, tho I HATED the way he just ripped the cage door off in the first hell in a Cell match, mute burn victim Kane is much better than pseudo creepy bad hair cut Kane. -Pseudo creepy bad hair cut Kane is alright, but he should be his own seperate character, not an evolution of mute burn victim Kane. -Hmm...Could Kane take Elminster? Both can shoot fireballs and summon lightning... I honestly don't watch much WWE anymore, I mostly watch ROH, IWA-MS, PWG, or Puroresu. -I haven't watched wrestling in about ten years now, but I saw, on Youtube, the 15th Anniversary episode of RAW.
Darth_Khan 02-01-08, 12:26 AM	-Pseudo creepy bad hair cut Kane is alright, but he should be his own seperate character, not an evolution of mute burn victim Kane. -Hmm...Could Kane take Elminster? Both can shoot fireballs and summon lightning... Agreed. Hmm, I says its close but Elminster, thinking ahead, casts Kinetic control on himself at the opening bell. Absorbs a monstrous beating from the big red machine, even taking the dreaded choke slam. Kane goes for the cover for the 1..2...NO!! Elminster "greenwoods" up hits the "finger poke of Doom" (ironically the same one that put down Kevin Nash) releasing the stored kinetic energy and getting the W. He then poses for all the forgotten realmsiacs as his music blares.
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 12:48 AM	Could Kane take Cane?
dethmetal 02-01-08, 09:51 AM	-I'd never be able to do that. For whatever reason, I don't get along very well with people who really like the same things I do. I'd probably end up punching someone who came to me and started telling my why, say, Flash is better than Quicksilver, or something like that. Happens to me with Star Wars, happens to me with RPGs (as in video games), and it used to happen to me when I liked anime. Is that weird that, that just makes me want to talk about starwars more? I'm not sure why it's just a topic i enjoy argueing about. So how about this instead.... Luke (the current EU grand master jedi luke) Vs. El(pre spellplauge height of his power still a chosen) Kane with the mask, when he was first introduced, is far superior to the current Kane mute burn victim Kane is much better than pseudo creepy bad hair cut Kane. You are both correct!
Lord Karsus 02-01-08, 01:41 PM	Is that weird that, that just makes me want to talk about starwars more? I'm not sure why it's just a topic i enjoy argueing about. -Things like that just get me angry because I know far too many "die-hard fans" who don't know what the hell they are talking about. So how about this instead.... Luke (the current EU grand master jedi luke) Vs. El(pre spellplauge height of his power still a chosen) -Statistically, I believe that Elminster has more levels than Luke, who is statted in the SWRPG books. The Force is slightly more versatile, however, than Arcane magic. Regardless of the fact that I dislike Luke, I am going to give the win to Elminster. You are []correct! -As usual. :cool:
GreenKnight 02-01-08, 05:33 PM	-Just remember who you signed your soul and your little sister to...;) Considering that I have neither a little sister nor a soul, I'd say I came out ahead in the deal. :P Generally I like Marvel characters more, but damn DC has been on a role in the last few years with very good stories. Three words. Sinestro. Corps. War. Amazing storyline, all around. When I first started collecting comics, I was mainly a Marvel fan at first, and now I'm mainly a DC fan. DC has just so many good titles going for it right now. Although I'm starting to buy up more Marvel Comics, lately. I've been buying Astonishing X-Men for a while (And Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, but Marvel up and cancelled that), but I started back up again with the main X-Men line with the Messiah Complex storyline. Some good things in that story, well-written, although I'm not happy with all the deaths. And what's up with that baby? Was it Rachel? If so, how was she even born? Jean's dead/Phoenix, her and Scott hadn't had sex for months before her death/resurrection as Phoenix/etc, so it's not as if she was pregnant when she became Phoenix, unless I totally missed something. I also started picking up Captain America with last issue, along with Annihilation: Conquest (I've been told it was really good, so I ordered both the current mini-series and the TPB's that preceeded it). I'm staying FAR away from Spider-Man, though. One More Day, what the hell?!? It was crappy storylines from the 90's that made me quit comic books for years, and it seems like Joe Quesada is hellbent on bringing back the 90's.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-01-08, 07:11 PM	-Statistically, I believe that Elminster has more levels than Luke, who is statted in the SWRPG books. The Force is slightly more versatile, however, than Arcane magic. Regardless of the fact that I dislike Luke, I am going to give the win to Elminster. Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike Luke?:) I will say also that I am only a casual fan of the SW franchise; I like the movies, the setting, and Knights of the Old Republic, but I don't read the novels and don't have much knowledge about what's "canon" and what isn't.
MarkusTay63 02-01-08, 08:02 PM	Because he makes out with his sister, and thats just gross. :yuck:
Darth_Khan 02-01-08, 11:08 PM	Considering that I have neither a little sister nor a soul, I'd say I came out ahead in the deal. :P Three words. Sinestro. Corps. War. Amazing storyline, all around. When I first started collecting comics, I was mainly a Marvel fan at first, and now I'm mainly a DC fan. DC has just so many good titles going for it right now. Although I'm starting to buy up more Marvel Comics, lately. I've been buying Astonishing X-Men for a while (And Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, but Marvel up and cancelled that), but I started back up again with the main X-Men line with the Messiah Complex storyline. Some good things in that story, well-written, although I'm not happy with all the deaths. And what's up with that baby? Was it Rachel? If so, how was she even born? Jean's dead/Phoenix, her and Scott hadn't had sex for months before her death/resurrection as Phoenix/etc, so it's not as if she was pregnant when she became Phoenix, unless I totally missed something. I also started picking up Captain America with last issue, along with Annihilation: Conquest (I've been told it was really good, so I ordered both the current mini-series and the TPB's that preceeded it). I'm staying FAR away from Spider-Man, though. One More Day, what the hell?!? It was crappy storylines from the 90's that made me quit comic books for years, and it seems like Joe Quesada is hellbent on bringing back the 90's. Yes!! The Sinestro Corp War was great, as was 52. I also highly recommend Annihilation. Haven't read A:C tho. If you are a fan of the Hulk WWH was pretty good. I haven't heard anything good about One More Day..glad I am not a Spidey fan. It saddens me that Ennis is leaving the Punisher as well. From what you said Messiah Complex is worth checking out, so I really need to do that. Finally I miss the Exiles :(
Alleran 02-02-08, 12:33 AM	-Statistically, I believe that Elminster has more levels than Luke, who is statted in the SWRPG books. Luke's SAGA stats are set at his RotJ level, not the current EU level. Going by EU time passed, feats, and natural "power scaling", if you look at what he could do in RotJ and the levels given to him for that, then at the moment, he would be well into Epic levels with ease. The problem being that SAGA doesn't have Epic levels at the present time. Three words. Sinestro. Corps. War. Amazing storyline, all around. I agree, though I wasn't as fond of some parts of it. Overall, it was indeed excellent, though. Some of the storylines coming about as a result of it, though, I'm a bit wary of (Alpha Lanterns...).
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:28 AM	Considering that I have neither a little sister nor a soul, I'd say I came out ahead in the deal. :P -Who is this girl then? :confused: Some good things in that story, well-written, although I'm not happy with all the deaths. And what's up with that baby? Was it Rachel? If so, how was she even born? Jean's dead/Phoenix, her and Scott hadn't had sex for months before her death/resurrection as Phoenix/etc, so it's not as if she was pregnant when she became Phoenix, unless I totally missed something. -Who the baby is was never mentioned. It can't be Rachel, however, since the baby was born to random people in Alaska. Though, for those who remember, Cable was born to Scott and Madyline in Alaska, so... -That's some good detective work, though. Truthfully, I didn't give that possibility one thought. But, Rachel does become Mother Askani, and does become the savior of the future, as this baby girl is destined to, so sayth Cable. I'm staying FAR away from Spider-Man, though. One More Day, what the hell?!? It was crappy storylines from the 90's that made me quit comic books for years, and it seems like Joe Quesada is hellbent on bringing back the 90's. -Odd thing is, I used to defend Joe Q. F' him now, though. Just out of curiosity, why do you dislike Luke?:) -Luke reminds me off too many people I know. They are good people overall, like Luke is, but they let their own religiously preconcieved notions blind them from certain things, as Luke has done time and time again, most recently concerning his nephew. Jacen, on the other hand, is someone I can relate to. Not only is he willing to do what is needed, no matter who says what, but he doesn't let preconcieved notions of certain things prevent him from learning about the universe.
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 01:48 AM	-Who is this girl then? :confused: No idea. I just grabbed the first small child I could find. I'm surprised you didn't notice something was up, though. After all, it was a little asian girl, and since I'm not asian... :shifty: -Who the baby is was never mentioned. It can't be Rachel, however, since the baby was born to random people in Alaska. Though, for those who remember, Cable was born to Scott and Madyline in Alaska, so... Well, nothing is ever said as to who the kids parents are. So it could be that Jean/Phoenix popped in, gave birth, and took off. And those flashbacks sure made it seem like it was Rachel (Two of them are of Scott having to give up Nathan, and one's of Scott having to give up Jean, so the idea seems that Scott's once again having to give up a member of his family). Not to mention that it's a little red-headed, green eyed baby girl. And Rachel's seemingly tied in to both Bishop's future and Cable's future, and the baby in question apparently plays a pivotal role in both their timelines. -That's some good detective work, though. Truthfully, I didn't give that possibility one thought. But, Rachel does become Mother Askani, and does become the savior of the future, as this baby girl is destined to, so sayth Cable. Yeah, I was rereading New X-Men the other day, and after his ordeal with Apocalypse, Scott hadn't touched Jean in months. Gotta reread the latter issues, though. Maybe they had a booty call towards the end? I honestly don't remember.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:52 AM	No idea. I just grabbed the first small child I could find. I'm surprised you didn't notice something was up, though. After all, it was a little asian girl, and since I'm not asian... :shifty: -Hmm...Well, back in the cage she goes. Well, nothing is ever said as to who the kids parents are. So it could be that Jean/Phoenix popped in, gave birth, and took off. And those flashbacks sure made it seem like it was Rachel (Two of them are of Scott having to give up Nathan, and one's of Scott having to give up Jean, so the idea seems that Scott's once again having to give up a member of his family). Not to mention that it's a little red-headed, green eyed baby girl. And Rachel's seemingly tied in to both Bishop's future and Cable's future. -Right before heading into this thread, I actually read up on the end of Messiah Complex, because I was referencing Caliban's death to someone. -I like Rachel. I hope when/if she returns from Shi'ar space, she is actually utilized. Yeah, I was rereading New X-Men the other day, and after his ordeal with Apocalypse, Scott hadn't touched Jean in months. Gotta reread the latter issues, though. Maybe they had a booty call towards the end? I honestly don't remember. -She baby was just born, though. There would need to be a mother, and with Jean dead for a while now. I was actually thinking maybe Emma, but...She has been acting weird, though, lately.
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 02:49 AM	-I like Rachel. I hope when/if she returns from Shi'ar space, she is actually utilized. Yeah, I've always liked Rachel. Hell, one of the main draws of Excalibur for me back in the day was the fact that she was in it. I preferred having her on the X-Men, though. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/137/137974/folders/264157/2277421Phoenix.jpg -She baby was just born, though. There would need to be a mother, and with Jean dead for a while now. I was actually thinking maybe Emma, but...She has been acting weird, though, lately. Well, with with comic time being what it is, her "death" may've occured less then 9 months beforehand (And technically she's still around, although she seems to be hanging out in that White Hot Room doing who knows what. Whatever she's doing, though, it's a colossal waste of her character). As for Emma? Nah. At what point could Emma have been pregnant? Besides, the baby's got red hair and green eyes. Scott and Emma have neither (And I'm including Emma pre-cosmetic surgery).
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 02:57 AM	Yeah, I've always liked Rachel. Hell, one of the main draws of Excalibur for me back in the day was the fact that she was in it. I preferred having her on the X-Men, though. -I never used to be a fan of Rachel. But, I was young then. I've come to see the truth. Plus, I like the name a lot. If I ever produced offspring that was female, I'd consider the name. Emma? Nah. At what point could Emma have been pregnant? Besides, the baby's got red hair and green eyes. Scott and Emma have neither (And I'm including Emma pre-cosmetic surgery). -Note, the appearence Emma wears isn't her true appearence. I forget what Uncanny X-Men issue (Post issue 400, but before House of M...The X-Men were infiltrating HYDRA, I believe) it was, but Emma and Rachel finally 'had it out', as Rachel was unhappy that her father was sleeping with Emma and all, and Rachel dug into Emma's subconscious, and it was revealed that underneath everything, Emma was actually a fairly ugly and fat woman. I read that to be literal, and not metaphoric for her personality, or whatever.
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 03:06 AM	-I never used to be a fan of Rachel. But, I was young then. I've come to see the truth. Plus, I like the name a lot. If I ever produced offspring that was female, I'd consider the name. Truly we have plumbed the depths of nerddom, for I have had the same thoughts. That is, until 'Friends' premiered. Jennifer Aniston ruined the name for me. and it was revealed that underneath everything, Emma was actually a fairly ugly and fat woman. I read that to be literal, and not metaphoric for her personality, or whatever. I haven't read it, but I'm pretty certain that it's metaphorical, as for it to be the literal truth, it'd contradict far to many other bits. For instance, when Jean did similar to Emma, we learned that Emma had cosmetic surgery (but she was skinny). On top of which, she had her own title, 'Emma Frost', where she wasn't fat (They showed her before and after her mutant powers appeared). Not to mention that she'd have to be a ridiculously powerful telepath to get everyone to see her like that. Including machines, who apparently also see her as a hot blonde, too. So nah. That's definitely metaphorical.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 03:10 AM	Truly we have plumbed the depths of nerddom, for I have had the same thoughts. -Let's chalk that up to great minds who think alike. I haven't read it, but I'm pretty certain that it's metaphorical, as for it to be the literal truth, it'd contradict far to many other bits. -Oh well. Not to mention that she'd have to be a ridiculously powerful telepath to get everyone to see her like that. Including machines, who apparently also see her as a hot blonde, too. -She's an Omega Level mutant, don't forget. I mean, the Phoenix Force did possess her... -Hmm...Elminster versus Emma Frost. I think Elminster might throw that match.
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 03:18 AM	-Hmm...Elminster versus Emma Frost. I think Elminster might throw that match. Yeah, best to get this thread SOMEWHAT back on topic. ;) Though now I got a hankering to talk about the aformentioned 'comic time' (Cyclops is 29? Are you kidding me?!?).
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 03:43 AM	Yeah, best to get this thread SOMEWHAT back on topic. ;) Though now I got a hankering to talk about the aformentioned 'comic time' (Cyclops is 29? Are you kidding me?!?). -That's what the Rec-Room is for. :)
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 04:44 AM	-That's what the Rec-Room is for. :) Rec-Room? Tell me more of this... "Rec-Room".
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 10:05 AM	Rec-Room? Tell me more of this... "Rec-Room". -The Rec-Room (http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=405). It's like Heaven and Hell wrapped into one, but better.
dethmetal 02-02-08, 11:11 AM	Luke reminds me off too many people I know. They are good people overall, like Luke is, but they let their own religiously preconcieved notions blind them from certain things, as Luke has done time and time again, most recently concerning his nephew. Jacen, on the other hand, is someone I can relate to. Not only is he willing to do what is needed, no matter who says what, but he doesn't let preconcieved notions of certain things prevent him from learning about the universe. i dissagree with that assement of Jacen. But i don't wanna de-rail the thread into a starwars disscussion. But yeah the "EU" luke is for sure epic level, I haven't played or even skimed through the new saga edition rules for SW yet though. so level wise it would be about an evenly matched fight.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:26 PM	i dissagree with that assement of Jacen. But i don't wanna de-rail the thread into a starwars disscussion. -Elaborate. And, as long as you throw in the word 'Elminster' here or there, it won't be off-topic. ;)
dethmetal 02-02-08, 04:16 PM	Jacen is caught up as deeply in the Sith dogma as Luke is in the jedi. He was a whiney little kid that wanted a diffrent religion then his parents had, as soon as he found a teacher for one the crazy bird alien from NJO, Verge-whateverhernameis, who was really a sith pretending to be a jedi he jumped all over it as an act of rebelion, sort of...[at the time he dind't have much choice, convert or die kind of a thing] he only went out and searched on his own after that. Had it not been for the war he would still be the same whiney teenager complaining at luke that the jedi dogma just dosen't feel right. now jump ahead to the current storyline and he's even worse. He's gone against every ideal he used as a justification for the start of his current campaign. to protect his child from living the same life he did as a child in a galaxy of constant war he even goes so far as to kidnap his own child from her mother, takes her into a warzone under the guise of 'protecting' her. And holds the child hostage from her mother to force her mother to commit thier planets defence forces to Jacens war. Which is the very type of thing that he started this little sith quest to protect her from in short i just don't like the direction the character has taken and i'll be glad when the current series of books is over with. Also Jacen Vs. Elminster. Jacen wins because he'd blow up the planet El was on then go running off in an escape pod while his fleet finished fighting the remnants of the Toril Space Defence squads.
GreenKnight 02-02-08, 09:42 PM	'Vs' threads tend to assume one-on-one fights, not fleets or whole armies in addition. :P So Elminster Vs. Jacen, and Elminster wins (Unless Jacen's a Level 30 character, which I doubt). Same with Luke. Luke is 11th-Level in Star Wars Saga, so assuming he adds nine more levels of Jedi Knight (For a 10th-Level Jedi Knight), and a few levels besides, that'd make him say 23rd, 24th-Level? Elminster is 29th-Level, and that's all in Wizard levels. He has another 3 Cleric levels, 2 Rogue levels, and 1 Fighter level. To top it off, he's also a Chosen. So even if Luke is about 24th-Level, that still puts Elminster about 15 levels higher then him. So yeah, Elminster > Luke.
Alleran 02-03-08, 06:34 AM	-She's an Omega Level mutant, don't forget. I mean, the Phoenix Force did possess her... No, she isn't Omega level - she wasn't able to contain the Phoenix Force. She's powerful, but not Omega. Were I to make a guess, I'd say she's on the next tier down. Xavier was able to contain a shard of the Phoenix Force at one point, but he's pretty much the pre-eminent psychic of 616 (yes, Jean is technically stronger, I know). Luke is 11th-Level in Star Wars Saga, so assuming he adds nine more levels of Jedi Knight (For a 10th-Level Jedi Knight), and a few levels besides, that'd make him say 23rd, 24th-Level? Actually, I'd have him maxed out in all the Jedi and Ace Pilot levels (completely retool his build). So Jedi 20 / Jedi Knight 10 / Jedi Master 5 / Ace Pilot 10 - that's just me, though (and I could be convinced to bring his Jedi levels back down to 10-15, leaving him as a level 35-40 character). I just use him as a DM tool more than anything else. No point in statting him.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-03-08, 11:47 AM	I love the way the Tread is going :D More info of Adam here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Adam . and to answer Storm question about why I started this thread is because people say that El is the "superman" of FR and the Chosen are a JLA kinda thing, ans since I Black Adam is my fav. "villian" in DC AND his powers are magic base ....:P
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 12:23 PM	Jacen is caught up as deeply in the Sith dogma as Luke is in the jedi. He was a whiney little kid that wanted a diffrent religion then his parents had, as soon as he found a teacher for one the crazy bird alien from NJO, Verge-whateverhernameis, who was really a sith pretending to be a jedi he jumped all over it as an act of rebelion, sort of...[at the time he dind't have much choice, convert or die kind of a thing] he only went out and searched on his own after that. Had it not been for the war he would still be the same whiney teenager complaining at luke that the jedi dogma just dosen't feel right. now jump ahead to the current storyline and he's even worse. He's gone against every ideal he used as a justification for the start of his current campaign. to protect his child from living the same life he did as a child in a galaxy of constant war he even goes so far as to kidnap his own child from her mother, takes her into a warzone under the guise of 'protecting' her. And holds the child hostage from her mother to force her mother to commit thier planets defence forces to Jacens war. Which is the very type of thing that he started this little sith quest to protect her from in short i just don't like the direction the character has taken and i'll be glad when the current series of books is over with. -Interesting perspective on things...I don't agree with a lot of that, but you're entitled to your opinion.
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 12:24 PM	No, she isn't Omega level - she wasn't able to contain the Phoenix Force. She's powerful, but not Omega. Were I to make a guess, I'd say she's on the next tier down. Xavier was able to contain a shard of the Phoenix Force at one point, but he's pretty much the pre-eminent psychic of 616 (yes, Jean is technically stronger, I know). -Has there ever been a 'Cerebro File', or something to that effect book, listing known mutants and their relative power levels and powers, do you know?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-03-08, 04:04 PM	-Luke reminds me off too many people I know. They are good people overall, like Luke is, but they let their own religiously preconcieved notions blind them from certain things, as Luke has done time and time again, most recently concerning his nephew. Jacen, on the other hand, is someone I can relate to. Not only is he willing to do what is needed, no matter who says what, but he doesn't let preconcieved notions of certain things prevent him from learning about the universe. Thanks for explaining that to me--here and in person.;)
Storm_Silverhand 02-03-08, 04:34 PM	Heya, I love the way the Tread is going :D More info of Adam here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Adam . and to answer Storm question about why I started this thread is because people say that El is the "superman" of FR and the Chosen are a JLA kinda thing, ans since I Black Adam is my fav. "villian" in DC AND his powers are magic base ....:P Well I think one of the most important questions to ask is... What battleground will they use? You're also talking pre-powerless Adam, I'm assuming (I don't know where Black Adam's powers have gone, but one of the last issues of Countdown I read saw Mary Marvel handing them over to Eclipso/Jean Loring, which promptly ejected Eclipso from Jean.) See, if it's in Faerun, I think Black Adam may well be cut off from his powers, since I don't think many (if any) of his deities are represented in Faerun. Plus, Mystra might not like his style of magic (if this is pre-Mystra's Murder). But I'm speaking as a non-expert, since I'm not entirely sure how Black Adam's magic works.
Alleran 02-03-08, 09:04 PM	-Has there ever been a 'Cerebro File', or something to that effect book, listing known mutants and their relative power levels and powers, do you know? Yes, but we've never seen all of it, IIRC. It was Xavier's "secret files", in which he listed the various powers and abilities of mutants, as well as the easiest ways to beat them in case they ever went rogue.
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 11:39 PM	Yes, but we've never seen all of it, IIRC. It was Xavier's "secret files", in which he listed the various powers and abilities of mutants, as well as the easiest ways to beat them in case they ever went rogue. -I meant something that has been published. Yes, I know of the Xavier Protocols, but they don't do us very much good.
GreenKnight 02-04-08, 01:12 AM	See, if it's in Faerun, I think Black Adam may well be cut off from his powers, since I don't think many (if any) of his deities are represented in Faerun. I don't see why they wouldn't work. After all, several members of the Marvel Family have been able to jump from one dimension to another and still have no problems with their powers (And of course, one can always assume that Toril exists in the same universe as the DCU, so who needs to take crossdimensional travel into account? And the Marvel Family's powers most definitely work in the regular universe, no matter where they are. Just ask Black Adam when he went to Thanagar). About the only case I can think of where they couldn't access their powers is the Shadow Lands, and the Shadow Lands has its own unique properties to explain that. By the way, a few of the gods who power him are present on Faerun, in the Mulhorandi Pantheon. He has the Swiftness of Heru (Heru is Horus, so Horus-Re), the Wisdom of Zehuti (Thoth), the Power of Aton (An aspect of Ra, so Horus-Re, again), and the Courage of Mehen (Who's been sometimes merged with Set). Plus, Mystra might not like his style of magic (if this is pre-Mystra's Murder). But I'm speaking as a non-expert, since I'm not entirely sure how Black Adam's magic works. I don't see why Mystra would cut it off, as it's her job to promote the use of magic, not stifle it. She has a fondness for Elminster, sure, but she can't ignore her godly duties. After all, that's how she got in hot water in the first place during the Trial of Cyric. Besides, would she even have any power over it? In essence, Black Adam's powers are the result of magical pacts which Shazam has made with the various gods in question. So even if Mystra wanted to cut his powers off, she may not be able to. Whatever the case, though, it's 'Black Adam Vs. Elminster', not 'Black Adam Vs. Elminster, His Friends, His Goddess, His Allies, His Butler, Every Woman He's Ever Slept With, and His Pet Dog'. So Mystra's immaterial to the discussion. Hmm. Now I feel like statting out Black Adam in D&D terms. I'm gonna go check out Atomic Think Tank and see some of the versions of Black Adam people have put up there. Then convert the Mutants & Masterminds stats that people gave him to D&D terms.
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 01:53 AM	Hmm. Now I feel like statting out Black Adam in D&D terms. I'm gonna go check out Atomic Think Tank and see some of the versions of Black Adam people have put up there. Then convert the Mutants & Masterminds stats that people gave him to D&D terms. -Is there a DC equivalent of the Marvel Superheroes RPG game? If so, that might be a good place to get a basis for stats and such.
MarkusTay63 02-04-08, 02:30 AM	You could do it in Heroclix. ;)
GreenKnight 02-04-08, 04:53 AM	-Is there a DC equivalent of the Marvel Superheroes RPG game? If so, that might be a good place to get a basis for stats and such. Yep. (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=1605)
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 05:02 AM	Yep. (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=1605) -Well, there you go, if you happen to have it.
GreenKnight 02-04-08, 05:53 AM	Sadly, I don't have it. :( Marvel Super Heroes? Yes. DC Universe RPG? Nope. So unless someone wants to change this thread to "Silver Surfer Vs. Elminster"... ;)
GothicDan 02-04-08, 10:01 AM	Go Phoenix!
Alleran 02-04-08, 11:02 AM	-I meant something that has been published. Yes, I know of the Xavier Protocols, but they don't do us very much good. Ah. In that case, the Marvel Handbooks are really the only ones that spring to mind.
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 12:23 PM	Go Phoenix! -Well, we know that Phoenix > Everything...
GothicDan 02-04-08, 01:09 PM	Indeed. I'd marry the Phoenix if I was straight. Though I've heard tales of a male once possessing the Phoenix Force...
dethmetal 02-04-08, 01:09 PM	Actually, I'd have him maxed out in all the Jedi and Ace Pilot levels (completely retool his build). So Jedi 20 / Jedi Knight 10 / Jedi Master 5 / Ace Pilot 10 - that's just me, though (and I could be convinced to bring his Jedi levels back down to 10-15, leaving him as a level 35-40 character). I just use him as a DM tool more than anything else. No point in statting him. I'd go pilot 5. His years in the rebelion as a pilot were rather short before he ditched that to go train jedi. If there is some type of lightsaber duelist class i'd give him a few levels in that instead as it's mentioned quite alot (by jacen atleast which might be a colored perception) that luke is by far the greatest skilled lightsaber weilder in the galaxy. (which is ilistrated by a scene of the entire jedi council sparring while discussing matters and luke being the sole defender against the rest of the counsils attacks) 'Vs' threads tend to assume one-on-one fights, not fleets or whole armies in addition. So Elminster Vs. Jacen, and Elminster wins (Unless Jacen's a Level 30 character, which I doubt). Same with Luke. Luke is 11th-Level in Star Wars Saga, so assuming he adds nine more levels of Jedi Knight (For a 10th-Level Jedi Knight), and a few levels besides, that'd make him say 23rd, 24th-Level? Elminster is 29th-Level, and that's all in Wizard levels. He has another 3 Cleric levels, 2 Rogue levels, and 1 Fighter level. To top it off, he's also a Chosen. So even if Luke is about 24th-Level, that still puts Elminster about 15 levels higher then him. So yeah, Elminster > Luke. the jacen vs Elimnster thing was more just a throw away attempt to keep the thread slightly on track. And the fleet thing was more a comment on jacens fighting style in the lastest series of books (often times starting a battle then fleeing it once things got dangerous for him while leaving his men to clean up the mess he's made, a strategy that has reduced the GA fleet to a bare shell of what it was pre the new empire) You can't really use luke's stats from the saga for this fight because if i'm not mistaken(which i've been known to be on numerous occasions) those are his states post RotJ and not representative of his current power level in the EU plus i know that we need some type of mechanic to officiate these fights but i just don't like this "He's higher level, automatic win" If that's the only criteria for a win then there isn't really any debate, Outside of forgoten realms there are very few epic level characters in the sourcebooks.
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 01:21 PM	Indeed. I'd marry the Phoenix if I was straight. Though I've heard tales of a male once possessing the Phoenix Force... -In the mainstream Marvel universe only, Professor X, 'Kid Omega' and Nightcrawler (of all people!) have all had it possessing them. So, no matter what the case, you'd be committing a horrible act- geriophilia, pedophilia, and beastiality. ;)
GreenKnight 02-04-08, 11:44 PM	You can't really use luke's stats from the saga for this fight because if i'm not mistaken(which i've been known to be on numerous occasions) those are his states post RotJ and not representative of his current power level in the EU Yeah, which is why I assumed he had about 10-15 more levels in addition in a previous post. :P plus i know that we need some type of mechanic to officiate these fights but i just don't like this "He's higher level, automatic win" If that's the only criteria for a win then there isn't really any debate, Outside of forgoten realms there are very few epic level characters in the sourcebooks. In which case no Star Wars characters can beat Elminster. Nothing wrong with that. You're right, though, in that class levels isn't the ONLY criteria. However, we've got two elements here: Race and Class Level. Luke is Human, so that adds nothing. He's also a Jedi, but those class abilities aren't so far divorced from D&D class abilities. So taking that into account, Elminster IS more powerful, as he has all of that, but more. He's human, but has the Chosen Template. His class levels are about equal to a Jedi, and he has more class levels. There's really no other variable to determine the results of a fight on. With nothing else for Luke to add to it, he loses every time. With someone like Black Adam, though, there's a third variable. Namely superpowers. For instance, he may be the equivalent of a 15th-Level Human Fighter. Not impressive by itself, but that's not all there is to him. By way of comparison, I remember reading posts on the NWN2 forums where people were saying "Oh, Kelemvor's ONLY a Level 50 character, so our four Level 30 characters can take him". Yeah, he's Level 50, but his race is "GOD"! And being a God, alone, is probably worth more then those 50 class levels combined. Likewise, being a superhuman as powerful as he is, his superpowers are most definitely worth more than 15 class levels.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-05-08, 10:28 AM	By way of comparison, I remember reading posts on the NWN2 forums where people were saying "Oh, Kelemvor's ONLY a Level 50 character, so our four Level 30 characters can take him". People like that are annoying.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-05-08, 04:42 PM	Oh you would HAT my players then. They are all but one are about the numbers (since they don't read novels or nothing like that).
GreenKnight 02-05-08, 09:10 PM	People like that are annoying. Yeah, but it's fun being able to deploy the massive *****slap that are Kelemvor's abilities. I made it pretty clear in one post that the party would be lucky to survive a TPK beyond Kelemvor's first attack, nevermind his first round (The benefits of Reach from becoming a Colossal creature, Great Cleave, and the Annihilating Strike ability)!
MarkusTay63 02-05-08, 11:10 PM	For you Dan - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Giraud_PHOENIX_IX.jpg Because I was a huge fan of Guardians of the Galaxy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(Guardians_of_the_Galaxy)) (Marvel Future). ;)
GreenKnight 02-06-08, 02:05 PM	Yeah, I loved Guardians of the Galaxy, too. :) I really liked that story with Galactus and the Silver Surfer/The Keeper.
dethmetal 02-06-08, 02:51 PM	Yeah that was a good series, the angle of the surfer having the quantum bands was a good twist too. I really enjoyed the Quasar series which revolved around the bands as well. Side note i had saw that they are re-doing that series but switched genders on the main protagonist. I ended up not buying it though because the earliest back issue they had was #3. I mean you don't start reading books in the middle. and to stay on topic. Silver Surfer Vs Elimnster
Lord Karsus 02-06-08, 03:13 PM	and to stay on topic. Silver Surfer Vs Elimnster -That's very even...The herald of a deity versus the herald of a divine-like entity. -I'd give the edge to the Silver Surfer rather than Elminster.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-06-08, 09:02 PM	Unless El gets... THe Infinity Gauntlet Gauntlet Gauntlet Gauntlet Gauntlet Gauntlet Gauntlet :D I think Lord Delta would be proud:ayyyy!:
Darth_Khan 02-06-08, 11:16 PM	-Well, there you go, if you happen to have it. Lucky, I have it as well as the Marvel game.
Darth_Khan 02-06-08, 11:54 PM	Also, even tho I think Black Adam out classes Elminster in power, Silver Surfer definitely does. Elminster MIGHT be able to cast a greater dispel on Adam to cut of his mystical source of power. Nothing you can do to disrupt the Power Cosmic. and some one who can hit you with a blast of energy whilst orbiting the planet you are on.
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 12:08 AM	:D I think Lord Delta would be proud:ayyyy!: -I think so too. Lucky, I have it as well as the Marvel game. -I was about this close [--] from buying that game once.
Darth_Khan 02-07-08, 11:54 PM	-I was about this close [--] from buying that game once. If you liked the Old west end games star wars engine, you would like this. I enjoyed the character creation, which I feel is a issue with a lot of Super Hero RPG's.
Lord Karsus 02-08-08, 12:03 AM	If you liked the Old west end games star wars engine, you would like this. I enjoyed the character creation, which I feel is a issue with a lot of Super Hero RPG's. -I did, I did. I spend the first half of my RPG life playing d6 Star Wars and CHILL. The second half has been d20 Star Wars and D&D.
MarkusTay63 02-08-08, 12:54 AM	Unless El gets... THe Infinity GauntletDepends on WHERE they fight - the Infinity Gauntlet is inert in any other universe then the one it was created in. Thats why Darkseid just threw it away. ;)
Andferne 02-08-08, 02:20 AM	Black Adam I think would be able to beat El. If he could get Time Stop off he might have a chance, other than that he is toast. On a side note. On the d20 sci-fi (or fantasy I foget) there are a ton of Marvel characters stated out with the d20modern rules. Fan made of course lol
msatran 02-09-08, 05:03 PM	Heh. It all depends on whether El likes Chocolate Egg Creams.
Lord Karsus 02-09-08, 11:32 PM	Heh. It all depends on whether El likes Chocolate Egg Creams. -Who doesn't?
MarkusTay63 02-09-08, 11:53 PM	And God said unto Abraham, "Blessed are the Egg Creams". :drool:
Darth_Khan 02-10-08, 12:02 AM	-I did, I did. I spend the first half of my RPG life playing d6 Star Wars and CHILL. The second half has been d20 Star Wars and D&D. Never played Chill, had one of the sourcebooks but never actually played it. I have played roughly 40 other rpgs tho lol.
MarkusTay63 02-10-08, 12:07 AM	I'm too old to enjoy a Star Wars RPG - I played in a Star Trek RPG though... Damned other players were ALL officers, and I always got stuck 'beaming down' with a Red Shirt on. :ghosted:
Darth_Khan 02-10-08, 03:12 PM	I'm too old to enjoy a Star Wars RPG - I played in a Star Trek RPG though... Damned other players were ALL officers, and I always got stuck 'beaming down' with a Red Shirt on. :ghosted: LOL, yeah that was similar to my experience.
GoldDragon 02-14-08, 03:34 AM	Both are crazy but El has a bit humility than Karsus. Not to mention access to Our world via Ed, so he might be totting a machine gun under those robes for such an occasion:rofl:
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 07:21 AM	And God said unto Abraham, "Blessed are the Egg Creams". :drool: -It's true. What do you think the mana is? :cool: Not to mention access to Our world via Ed, so he might be totting a machine gun under those robes for such an occasion:rofl: -Stoneskin. I learned how to negate the advantages of guns from the SEALS vs. Drow thread! :D
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 11:25 AM	Unlike, The SEALs EL CAN Enchant his weapon :D
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 12:06 PM	Unlike, The SEALs EL CAN Enchant his weapon :D -Elminster is my *****. Seriously. 29 Levels of Magician? That's all...:rolleyes:
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 12:27 PM	-Elminster is my *****...:rolleyes: :rofl:
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 12:28 PM	:rofl: -In the figurative sense, of course. Not literally. ;)
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 12:32 PM	Maybe I should make an El vs. LK Thread
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 12:34 PM	Maybe I should make an El vs. LK Thread -We all know everyone would root for me. :cool:
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 12:55 PM	I'm not so sure, Imean I would but..
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 01:57 PM	I'm not so sure, Imean I would but.. -Anyone who knows what's good for them would vote for me.
dethmetal 02-14-08, 02:27 PM	-Anyone who knows what's good for them would vote for me. statements like that just make me want to vote against a person for spite. Not that, that is a great reason to vote for anything but it's just how it works in my head.
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 02:40 PM	statements like that just make me want to vote against a person for spite. Not that, that is a great reason to vote for anything but it's just how it works in my head. -Well, when you mysteriously turn up with cement shoes, I'm not to blame...:incog:
dethmetal 02-14-08, 03:41 PM	I can see the headlines now. Ripped from the pages of the newspapers this week on Law & Order FRU(Forgotten Realms Unit) Dozens were arrested today in a cross Toril and American mofia sting operations. The arrested individuals were brought up on numerous charges including vote fixing. *Que theme music*
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 03:43 PM	-They don't call Karsus the 'Teflon Don Juan' for nothing...:cool:
dethmetal 02-14-08, 03:53 PM	-They don't call Karsus the 'Teflon Don Juan' for nothing...:cool: see i just guess that was in reference to the non-stick robes.
Markustay 02-14-08, 03:54 PM	Maybe I should make an El vs. LK ThreadI guy who only thought he was Mystra's equal, versus one who actually held her power successfully for a time? No contest. :cool:
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-14-08, 03:57 PM	Ouch!
Lord Karsus 02-14-08, 04:00 PM	see i just guess that was in reference to the non-stick robes. -Exactly. When I'm with the ladies, those robes don't seem to stay on...:cool: I guy who only thought he was Mystra's equal, versus one who actually held her power successfully for a time? No contest. :cool: -LK is a hearbeat, exactly.
GoldDragon 02-15-08, 08:48 AM	-Elminster is my *****. Seriously. 29 Levels of Magician? That's all...:rolleyes: Yeah, Spent way too much time playing the SSI Goldbox Series and played the PCs over and over to see how high they could get. Have a 66th Level Mage, 88th level Knight, and a 140th level Ranger..so yeah....Elminster is a "toy" by comparison. But his advantage is that he is Mystra's Favorite and "Chosen", and you don't get to be a few thousand years old by making mistakes like challanging someone that actuallly could kick your asss And despite the levels of my strongets PCs...or maybe because of it, negociation and finding a non violent solution to a problem makes you not have to clean your weapons in the end at the very least (Which could counter "there are worst fates then death" ....if you catch my drift)
GoldDragon 02-15-08, 09:00 AM	-Elminster is my *****. Seriously. 29 Levels of Magician? That's all...:rolleyes: Really, I have a 140th Level Ranger, 66th Level Mage, and 88th Level Knight lying around from playing my SSI GOldbox Series PC games way to many times...lol