CLosest to Gondor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

CLosest to Gondor? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
morvegil
06-24-07, 11:24 PM What realm in Faerun would be closest into like of people and such of LOTR Gondor?
Dark Wizard
06-24-07, 11:28 PM If I had to force a fit: Cormyr.
boards
06-24-07, 11:51 PM Actually I would put something like the old empires. Tolkien talks about using the double crown of Egypt for the crown of Gondor, they have an obsession with death building great Mausoleums, and have a love and capability for building on a tremendous scale. Obviously the whole Godkings and such doesnt fit, but they are a southen empire, more than human upper class, very long timeline, technologically advanced etc. If you just change a few things it could probably work. Cormyr obviously gives you that generic European mythic feel so maybe you would need to combine the two.
XHereticX
06-25-07, 08:47 AM Hmm, actually the elven kingdoms seems more similar to Gondor than most. With the whole altristic, withdrawn, and higher-than-thou attitude.
Boda
06-25-07, 02:17 PM Damara or Cormyr.
boards
06-25-07, 05:59 PM Hmm, actually the elven kingdoms seems more similar to Gondor than most. With the whole altristic, withdrawn, and higher-than-thou attitude.

Nope, gotta disagree with that. The elven kingdoms are pretty much all isolationist, with the possible exception of the new Myth Drannor, intervening only when they are threatened. Gondor is most definately NOT like this. Higher-than-thou I got not argument with.
XHereticX
06-25-07, 06:36 PM Nope, gotta disagree with that. The elven kingdoms are pretty much all isolationist, with the possible exception of the new Myth Drannor, intervening only when they are threatened. Gondor is most definately NOT like this. Higher-than-thou I got not argument with.

That is what Gondor pretty much was like until they got attacked;)

Or was Denathor's performance not clear enough?
Mordakay of Thay
06-25-07, 08:05 PM M8 as a real fan of Tolkien books ,i can tell you that Gondor wasn't a isolationist nation.
BrennonGoldeye
06-25-07, 08:13 PM M8 as a real fan of Tolkien books ,i can tell you that Gondor wasn't a isolationist nation.

:uh-huh: At the time of the War of the Ring Gondor was the very definition of an isolationist nation. We must take into account there were only 5 or so nations to have relations with. I don't suppose it was that hard for the folk who knew they were all that was left of the 2nd Age to be a tad bit insular. :)
Zevox
06-25-07, 09:18 PM That is what Gondor pretty much was like until they got attacked;)

Or was Denathor's performance not clear enough?
Denathor was one Steward of the City, not the entire nation. And he was driven mad by Sauron. He was most definitely not an example of an average Gondorian.

In fact, I'd say the "Higher-than-Thou" thing is incorrect as well. Last I checked, Gondorians gave up half their nation to the Rohirrim after they aided them in a war, and maintained a close friendship with them forever after. If they had that kind of attitude, I seriously doubt that they'd have been that generous to nomadic horsemen from the north.

It was the people of Numenor, later in its life anyway, that had the "Higher-than-Thou" attitude towards the rest of the world, when they grew jealous of the gift of eternal life that the Valar and Elves had and arrogant about the power and gifts they held which the people of Middle Earth didn't. Gondorians were descended from Numenor, but very few of those who escaped Numenor were arrogant in that manner (this being precisely why they escaped - they were fleeing Numenor for Middle Earth when the catastrophe that destroyed it struck because they saw where the arrogance of their kin and Sauron's influence over the King was leading), and their descendants were generally the same. Some were arrogant about being descendants of that nation, but that wasn't the general weal of the nation.

As for the isolationist thing, if you see them as such, its only because there weren't any other nations to have relationships with. Arnor fell early in the third age, and the Elven realms had either vanished (Eriador) or dwindled and become hidden (Lothlorian, Green/Mirkwood, Rivendell), which left Rohan (whom they were still friendly with) as the only really sizeable nation around. Otherwise you had the odd Dwarven settlement (most of them were scattered by Dragons during the Third Age, and the reclamation of Erebor was a pretty recent event even during the War of the Ring), scattered human settlements like Dale or Bree (hardly worth cultivating a relationship with), the lands of Rhun and Harad to the east and south, which were not friendly with westerners, the Shire, whose inhabitants hid form humans whenever they could, and the Grey Havens, which were quite far away, beyond several mountain ranges. Yeah, its understandable why they might not have much in the way of relationships with anyone outside of Rohan.

Zevox
boards
06-26-07, 01:09 AM Yes yes, listen to Zevox you must:D . Gondor wasn't trying to hide from people, they saw themsleves as the balwark against Mordor for all of the other nations, and with the exception of Rohan they were surrounded by the enemy. The holier-than-thou thing I get from Faramirs talk to Frodo about the 3 types of civilisations, high middle and low, and from parts of there history ie the kinslayer wars.

The FR elves generally live in hidden enclaves and forbid people from entering, and seem quite prepared to let the other races deal with evil (again with the obvious exception with the crusade). Total opposite from Gondor.
souldnce9
06-26-07, 04:07 AM Nerds! ;) :P
Mordakay of Thay
06-26-07, 05:01 AM I agree Zevox.And about the nerd thing,well.....you're a girl nerd thats even worse harharhar.:P
XHereticX
06-26-07, 07:54 PM So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy;)

And I knew all that stuff you said about Numenor, and yes, I know Denathor was driven mad by Sauron. I am just saying Gondor tended to be a little isolationist, which I still think is right. Arnor and Rohan however ,were not.
BrennonGoldeye
06-26-07, 09:08 PM Nerdy boys are sexy.;)
XHereticX
06-26-07, 09:22 PM Nerdy boys are sexy.;)

And this is the part where I run screaming out of the room screaming "RAPE":P
BrennonGoldeye
06-26-07, 09:33 PM Ohh, and like you weren't letting those nerdy vibes out all over the place.:P
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
XHereticX
06-26-07, 09:37 PM Ohh, and like you weren't letting those nerdy vibes out all over the place.:P
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

ughh, ok, u are acting a little too much like GothicDan for comfort.:eek:
BrennonGoldeye
06-26-07, 09:44 PM :bravo:..oh look, pretty flowers...
MerrikCale
06-26-07, 10:01 PM Nerds! ;) :P

you wish you were as cool as us
souldnce9
06-27-07, 02:09 AM I agree Zevox.And about the nerd thing,well.....you're a girl nerd thats even worse harharhar.

Nerd is a badge of honor where I'm from.

So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy

Boys do have a right to be nerdy and girl nerds are few and far between, and you know what? That makes girl nerds much, much cooler! :P That was meant for you Merrik!

Though Nerdy boys are sexy! ;)
Zevox
06-27-07, 02:28 AM So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy;)

And I knew all that stuff you said about Numenor, and yes, I know Denathor was driven mad by Sauron. I am just saying Gondor tended to be a little isolationist, which I still think is right. Arnor and Rohan however ,were not.
As I said, if you get that impression, its only because there was no one for them to have such relationships with. Who were they supposed to contact? The people of Bree or the Grey Havens, half a continent away in the lands of old Arnor? The people of Dale or Esgaroth off on the other side of Mirkwood? Elves hidden deep in the woods? The few and far between Dwarven settlements that were nowhere near their nation? The Wild Men that were still angry with them for taking their land centuries ago? The people of Rhun or Harad, who fought with Sauron in both the second and third ages? Besides Rohan, who else could they have had such relationships with to not be considered isolationist?

Zevox

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
morvegil 06-24-07, 11:24 PM	What realm in Faerun would be closest into like of people and such of LOTR Gondor?
Dark Wizard 06-24-07, 11:28 PM	If I had to force a fit: Cormyr.
boards 06-24-07, 11:51 PM	Actually I would put something like the old empires. Tolkien talks about using the double crown of Egypt for the crown of Gondor, they have an obsession with death building great Mausoleums, and have a love and capability for building on a tremendous scale. Obviously the whole Godkings and such doesnt fit, but they are a southen empire, more than human upper class, very long timeline, technologically advanced etc. If you just change a few things it could probably work. Cormyr obviously gives you that generic European mythic feel so maybe you would need to combine the two.
XHereticX 06-25-07, 08:47 AM	Hmm, actually the elven kingdoms seems more similar to Gondor than most. With the whole altristic, withdrawn, and higher-than-thou attitude.
Boda 06-25-07, 02:17 PM	Damara or Cormyr.
boards 06-25-07, 05:59 PM	Hmm, actually the elven kingdoms seems more similar to Gondor than most. With the whole altristic, withdrawn, and higher-than-thou attitude. Nope, gotta disagree with that. The elven kingdoms are pretty much all isolationist, with the possible exception of the new Myth Drannor, intervening only when they are threatened. Gondor is most definately NOT like this. Higher-than-thou I got not argument with.
XHereticX 06-25-07, 06:36 PM	Nope, gotta disagree with that. The elven kingdoms are pretty much all isolationist, with the possible exception of the new Myth Drannor, intervening only when they are threatened. Gondor is most definately NOT like this. Higher-than-thou I got not argument with. That is what Gondor pretty much was like until they got attacked;) Or was Denathor's performance not clear enough?
Mordakay of Thay 06-25-07, 08:05 PM	M8 as a real fan of Tolkien books ,i can tell you that Gondor wasn't a isolationist nation.
BrennonGoldeye 06-25-07, 08:13 PM	M8 as a real fan of Tolkien books ,i can tell you that Gondor wasn't a isolationist nation. :uh-huh: At the time of the War of the Ring Gondor was the very definition of an isolationist nation. We must take into account there were only 5 or so nations to have relations with. I don't suppose it was that hard for the folk who knew they were all that was left of the 2nd Age to be a tad bit insular. :)
Zevox 06-25-07, 09:18 PM	That is what Gondor pretty much was like until they got attacked;) Or was Denathor's performance not clear enough? Denathor was one Steward of the City, not the entire nation. And he was driven mad by Sauron. He was most definitely not an example of an average Gondorian. In fact, I'd say the "Higher-than-Thou" thing is incorrect as well. Last I checked, Gondorians gave up half their nation to the Rohirrim after they aided them in a war, and maintained a close friendship with them forever after. If they had that kind of attitude, I seriously doubt that they'd have been that generous to nomadic horsemen from the north. It was the people of Numenor, later in its life anyway, that had the "Higher-than-Thou" attitude towards the rest of the world, when they grew jealous of the gift of eternal life that the Valar and Elves had and arrogant about the power and gifts they held which the people of Middle Earth didn't. Gondorians were descended from Numenor, but very few of those who escaped Numenor were arrogant in that manner (this being precisely why they escaped - they were fleeing Numenor for Middle Earth when the catastrophe that destroyed it struck because they saw where the arrogance of their kin and Sauron's influence over the King was leading), and their descendants were generally the same. Some were arrogant about being descendants of that nation, but that wasn't the general weal of the nation. As for the isolationist thing, if you see them as such, its only because there weren't any other nations to have relationships with. Arnor fell early in the third age, and the Elven realms had either vanished (Eriador) or dwindled and become hidden (Lothlorian, Green/Mirkwood, Rivendell), which left Rohan (whom they were still friendly with) as the only really sizeable nation around. Otherwise you had the odd Dwarven settlement (most of them were scattered by Dragons during the Third Age, and the reclamation of Erebor was a pretty recent event even during the War of the Ring), scattered human settlements like Dale or Bree (hardly worth cultivating a relationship with), the lands of Rhun and Harad to the east and south, which were not friendly with westerners, the Shire, whose inhabitants hid form humans whenever they could, and the Grey Havens, which were quite far away, beyond several mountain ranges. Yeah, its understandable why they might not have much in the way of relationships with anyone outside of Rohan. Zevox
boards 06-26-07, 01:09 AM	Yes yes, listen to Zevox you must:D . Gondor wasn't trying to hide from people, they saw themsleves as the balwark against Mordor for all of the other nations, and with the exception of Rohan they were surrounded by the enemy. The holier-than-thou thing I get from Faramirs talk to Frodo about the 3 types of civilisations, high middle and low, and from parts of there history ie the kinslayer wars. The FR elves generally live in hidden enclaves and forbid people from entering, and seem quite prepared to let the other races deal with evil (again with the obvious exception with the crusade). Total opposite from Gondor.
souldnce9 06-26-07, 04:07 AM	Nerds! ;) :P
Mordakay of Thay 06-26-07, 05:01 AM	I agree Zevox.And about the nerd thing,well.....you're a girl nerd thats even worse harharhar.:P
XHereticX 06-26-07, 07:54 PM	So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy;) And I knew all that stuff you said about Numenor, and yes, I know Denathor was driven mad by Sauron. I am just saying Gondor tended to be a little isolationist, which I still think is right. Arnor and Rohan however ,were not.
BrennonGoldeye 06-26-07, 09:08 PM	Nerdy boys are sexy.;)
XHereticX 06-26-07, 09:22 PM	Nerdy boys are sexy.;) And this is the part where I run screaming out of the room screaming "RAPE":P
BrennonGoldeye 06-26-07, 09:33 PM	Ohh, and like you weren't letting those nerdy vibes out all over the place.:P :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
XHereticX 06-26-07, 09:37 PM	Ohh, and like you weren't letting those nerdy vibes out all over the place.:P :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ughh, ok, u are acting a little too much like GothicDan for comfort.:eek:
BrennonGoldeye 06-26-07, 09:44 PM	:bravo:..oh look, pretty flowers...
MerrikCale 06-26-07, 10:01 PM	Nerds! ;) :P you wish you were as cool as us
souldnce9 06-27-07, 02:09 AM	I agree Zevox.And about the nerd thing,well.....you're a girl nerd thats even worse harharhar. Nerd is a badge of honor where I'm from. So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy Boys do have a right to be nerdy and girl nerds are few and far between, and you know what? That makes girl nerds much, much cooler! :P That was meant for you Merrik! Though Nerdy boys are sexy! ;)
Zevox 06-27-07, 02:28 AM	So true. Boys at least have the right to be nerdy;) And I knew all that stuff you said about Numenor, and yes, I know Denathor was driven mad by Sauron. I am just saying Gondor tended to be a little isolationist, which I still think is right. Arnor and Rohan however ,were not. As I said, if you get that impression, its only because there was no one for them to have such relationships with. Who were they supposed to contact? The people of Bree or the Grey Havens, half a continent away in the lands of old Arnor? The people of Dale or Esgaroth off on the other side of Mirkwood? Elves hidden deep in the woods? The few and far between Dwarven settlements that were nowhere near their nation? The Wild Men that were still angry with them for taking their land centuries ago? The people of Rhun or Harad, who fought with Sauron in both the second and third ages? Besides Rohan, who else could they have had such relationships with to not be considered isolationist? Zevox