Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maddog0714 02-10-08, 12:40 PM	I'm running an adventure that the PC's temporarily end up around the year -35,000 during the year of thunder, during the era of the creator races. I don't know much about the creator races. What would they see during that era, and what would the creator races look like?
The Ubbergeek 02-10-08, 01:39 PM	if you can and wish some spoilers, the Serpent Kingdoms sourcebook of this current edition. They speak of the Sarrukhs and their legacy.
Old Sage 02-10-08, 08:52 PM	They've never received any great or particular focus, aside from Serpent Kingdoms. However the Creator Races were first mentioned by Paul Jaquays [the 'creator' of the concept] in FR5 The Savage Frontier and REF3 Lords of Darkness. See also Dragons of Faerūn and [i]Powers & Pantheons as well. Grand History of the Realms also includes some new lore on the Creator Races.
Lord Karsus 02-11-08, 01:11 AM	-If you don't mind me asking, I have a question. If you aren't familiar with the era, why are you sending the PCs there? Why not choose a time/place you are more familiar/comfortable with?
maddog0714 02-11-08, 09:32 AM	1. In my campaign setting, the Sarkrith (FF) are a sub type of the Sauroids or Sarrukh, and was a highly technologically advanced race that fled Toril during the era of -31000DR (When the comet fell from the sky causing a massive catastrophe) and went to a planetoid in Greyspace, that was a magic dead world (The center and cause of the Great Saragossa) and created and colonized underground highly advanced cities. 2. In the current adventure, The sarkrith have created anti-gravity like generators that can move the planet, which they plan to do so while opening up a wormhole called the Celestial Void from greyspace to Realmspace. They plan to crash the planetoid into toril (The Sarkrith have fled the planetoid, to another planet) 3. the PC's have access to a vessel that can travel in dead magic area (Since it is not a magical vessal). In which they travel to and destroy the planet as it comes thru the worm hole from greyspace to realmspace. However, the wormhole, unknown to the Sarkrith, is a Time portal as well, which sends the planetoid and the PC's back to the era of -31000 DR. 4. Inside the planetoid, unknown to the Sarkrith was an Elder evil that was imprisioned in the planetoid long before the Sarkrith colonized it 35,000 years ago, that will take the form of the moonlet when the PC's destroy the planet and be the cause of the catastrophe that caused the Sarkrith to flee to begin with. This, of course is just a brief overview, explaining why I need to know what would be on Toril at that time, as the PC's have to stop the Elder Evil from plowing into Toril, or maybe partially stop it.
Bonzai 02-11-08, 06:35 PM	Well, the days of thunder are basically the Land of the Lost (lol, It may be before your time). Cave Men, Dinosaurs, wierd reptilian humaniods, etc... Men are little more than primitive tribes. The Patheons that exist today are more than likely non-existant, or exisisting in cruder, more primitive forms. More than likley there are far more lesser/quasi dieties out there like Borem, who are tied to a place and have an actual physical manifestation. At the end of the Days of Thunder, the Sarukh were the first race to smelt iron. This gave them a huge edge over the "lesser" races. Speaking of races, those would be limited. Humans, goblinoids, Orcs (I think), and primitive aearee would be the most prevelent. The batrachi would still be beneath the waves. The are no Dragons, Giants, elves, haflings, or gnomes. They would be far more prevalent in woodland environments. Forests would be far more dark and foreboding, as nature spirits would openly rule them. That is, until the Sarrukh discover cold iron. The Sarrukh develope like most great empires do.... Through slavery. Once they discover metalurgy, they rabidly advance, and soon enslave many of the other races. Once they have slaves doing thier labor for them, they were free to turn to intellectual pursuits. This led to collating, and studying magic. It also led to perfecting their work force, leading to the creation of the Yaun-ti, Lizard folk, and Nagas. At the end of the Days of Thunder, the Sarruhk begin to decline, and the batrachi began to expand to the surface to fill the void, and Giants first started to appear.
The Ubbergeek 02-11-08, 06:45 PM	One wonder...a recent theory I had is that there may have been even older ages, forgotten by even the creator races... maybe there was alien-like, more primitive beings before, unbelievably ancient things... Maybe insectoids humanoids, like three-kreens... The specie that Jergal look like. The first civilization, fully forgotten by everything. Maybe Chthulu Mythos-grade slime beings, from before there was shapes... Maybe Jergals and dead or obscure gods like Moander, ghaunaudaur, the dead seven, etc... where survivors of such an era..
Jiggawha 02-12-08, 03:46 AM	more likely that Jergal is a spellweaver
maddog0714 02-13-08, 10:37 AM	Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly what are the "Iqua-Tel' Quessir", the creator races. (I don't have serpent kingdoms) I gather they are reptillian, but are they a race that created other races, or are they the first created race? Also, if anyone knows, what is the difference between the Sauroids, the Sarrukh and the Batrachi?
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 10:45 AM	Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly what are the "Iqua-Tel' Quessir", the creator races. -It is an Elven term for 'The Creator Races'. I gather they are reptillian, but are they a race that created other races, or are they the first created race? -The Creator Races are the progenitors of many races existing on Faerūn today, either literally, due to evolution and such factors, or as a result byproduct of them, through experimentation, for example. All existed long ago. -The list of the Creator Races looks more or less like this. Depending on who you ask, however, some races will be included, and some will not: Sarrukh: Reptilian Creator Race Batrachi: Amphibian Creator Race Fey: Fey Creator Race Aerie (Sp?): Avian Creator Race
maddog0714 02-13-08, 10:58 AM	Thanks alot, it makes more sense now... I wish I could find serpent kingdoms but no book stores or hobby shops have it anymore. One last question. In Grand History of the realms, it says in the Days of Thunder, elves did not exist, but in the dawn ages it says in -25400 DR that the gold elves left Faerie Intefrating into the native green elf community. WHen did the green elves come to Faurun, or are they descendants of the Sarrukh?
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 11:08 AM	One last question. In Grand History of the realms, it says in the Days of Thunder, elves did not exist, but in the dawn ages it says in -25400 DR that the gold elves left Faerie Intefrating into the native green elf community. WHen did the green elves come to Faurun, or are they descendants of the Sarrukh? -The Wood Elves came to Faerūn around -27,000 DR. This is only a few entries before in the published copy of AGHotR. An essay in Elves of Faerūn, entitled 'The First Coming of the Elves' illuminates my take on these events. -Elves are not inherently connected to any of the Creator Races. The Seldarine (the Elven Pantheon) created the Elves long ago, back in the mists of the time of the multiverse.
maddog0714 02-13-08, 11:36 AM	I read somewhere the "Fey" were one of the five creator races, could the green elves have been descedants of the "Fey" creator race?
Markustay 02-13-08, 12:23 PM	The Fey are the progenitors of the Green Elves, Grey Elves, Eladrin, perhaps Drow, and several dozen other 'fairy' species. Currently, the Le'Shay claim to be the 'original' Fey race, but they, like all the races, are more likely merely decendents of them (but perhaps the closest to the first Fey in appearance). Dragons are occasionally included in that list, because they too have created at least a dozen different 'offshoots' (not counting the 50 or so canon dragon types). Humans are usually included in the five (in place of the Dragons?), but that's a bit of conundrum - human wizards may have created hundreds of strange 'beasties', many viable, but I think that in order to be a "Creator Race", you need to have mixed some of your own DNA in the soup. But then again, things like Harpies, Centaurs, and Mermen had to come from somewhere. ;) 1. In my campaign setting, the Sarkrith (FF) are a sub type of the Sauroids or Sarrukh, and was a highly technologically advanced race that fled Toril during the era of -31000DR (When the comet fell from the sky causing a massive catastrophe) and went to a planetoid in Greyspace, that was a magic dead world (The center and cause of the Great Saragossa) and created and colonized underground highly advanced cities <snip>Dude... thats excellent!!! :D Like my 'Unsundering' theory, you've tied their downfall to their own magical meddling in the future. I'm a big fan of this type of ironic cosmic 'payback' - the fact that the Illithids in canon have comeback from the future to stop something in the past goes a long way in supporting our theories. ;) Maybe Illithids are Time Inevitables! :eek: Well, the days of thunder are basically the Land of the Lost (lol, It may be before your time). Cave Men, Dinosaurs, wierd reptilian humaniods, etc... <snip>More excellence! Enik the Altrusian FTW!!! :dancin: One wonder...a recent theory I had is that there may have been even older ages, forgotten by even the creator races... maybe there was alien-like, more primitive beings before, unbelievably ancient things...<snip>And even more good stuff! :cheer: I like the idea of a group of proto-Creator races, so ancient that the Sarukh, Batrachi, and Aeriee would refer to them as the First races. Wheather they were Cthulhuoids, or some sort of slime creatures, its pretty cool to think that there was something around even before the 'big five'. Amongst the 'known' Creator Races, I figure Fey probably rose first, then the other three. I think that Humans also had a very early civilization, perhaps with the help of one of the other CR, but fell back to barbarism for the most part during te sundering. There is evidence of at least one earlyHuman Civilization in a short story in Realms of the Elves that existed during the Age of Dragons, so not all of them were primitive Cavemen back then. Also, there is a fortress somewhere in the North (don't have my sources) that appears human-built, but dates back to before the Sundering. Perhaps those two are connected? Either way, I think that humans rise and fall with great frequency, probably due to their shorter lifespans, and if they are indeed a Creator Race, then perhaps they had a VERY early civilization dating back to the time of te others. Or maybe, today's humans are just one decendent sub-species of the 'Sapien' Creator race.... perhaps Jergal is what we looked like originally!
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 01:21 PM	The Fey are the progenitors of the Green Elves, Grey Elves, Eladrin, perhaps Drow, and several dozen other 'fairy' species. -Incorrect. Elves were created by, as I said, the Seldarine, in the 'forms' they appear as today. Now, were the Seldarine members of this 'Fey' creator race? Perhaps, though I think that'd be silly. -This is the problem I have with the Fey creator race. In their case, I see them simply as meeting the criteria of being an ancient civilization in Abeir-Toril's past, but not having created/evolved into other 'Fey' races- Elves, Satyrs, Unicorns, Fairies, Lepruchans, etc. Currently, the Le'Shay claim to be the 'original' Fey race, but they, like all the races, are more likely merely decendents of them (but perhaps the closest to the first Fey in appearance). -It appears to me that there seems to be some wiggling around now to make the LeShay the Fey creator race. That, I have no problem with. Also, there is a fortress somewhere in the North (don't have my sources) that appears human-built, but dates back to before the Sundering. -The famous Ironfang Keep dates back to this time, and perhaps even before, it is said. An enigma on a grand scale.
maddog0714 02-13-08, 03:26 PM	WHat happened to the "Serpent Kingdoms" Art gallery online?
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 03:33 PM	WHat happened to the "Serpent Kingdoms" Art gallery online? -There isn't one? There are a few sourcebooks that, for whatever reason, never had their artwork posted online. If SK isn't there, I guess it was one of those few.
maddog0714 02-13-08, 03:38 PM	There used to be one, I remember seeing pictures from it a while back (Maybe six monthes ago to a year ago) Maybe as with the creator races inside, they've disappeared in the mists of time. Anyway, thanks for all the info on the Creator races, it makes sense now
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 03:45 PM	There used to be one, I remember seeing pictures from it a while back (Maybe six monthes ago to a year ago) Maybe as with the creator races inside, they've disappeared in the mists of time. -Perhaps the artwork is slowly being taken down, for 4e? Who knows...Oh well. Anyway, thanks for all the info on the Creator races, it makes sense now -Well, if you need more help, we'll be here.
Markustay 02-13-08, 03:51 PM	-Incorrect. Elves were created by, as I said, the Seldarine, in the 'forms' they appear as today.More Elven Myths... :rolleyes: Never trust anything with pointy ears.... :P -Now, were the Seldarine members of this 'Fey' creator race? Perhaps, though I think that'd be silly.My thoughts EXACTLY. ;) If I ever actually get around to penning my pre-Torillian Elven Myths, The Tablets of Fate, it is alluded to that Corellon and his half-Brother (;) ) are both related to Titania... And so is Araunshee. :eek: ;) :D
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 04:02 PM	More Elven Myths... :rolleyes: Never trust anything with pointy ears.... :P -Right... My thoughts EXACTLY. ;) -Which I personally think is silly, as it causes plenty of coninuity errors (for example, this prevents Elves anywhere from existing until after Realmspace is created, as there then would not be any Seldarine to create them).
The Ubbergeek 02-13-08, 04:22 PM	-Perhaps the artwork is slowly being taken down, for 4e? Who knows...Oh well. HTML bug or something... There is a few pages like this. I searched for the book on the website and found the gallery there.
Markustay 02-13-08, 05:22 PM	-Which I personally think is silly, as it causes plenty of coninuity errors (for example, this prevents Elves anywhere from existing until after Realmspace is created, as there then would not be any Seldarine to create them).Not really... Don't you know that Fey were created fully formed at the end of time, and live their lives in REVERSE? :eek: :P The ones that survive until the creation of the universe are actually the most ancient, powerful beings in existance. ;)
Lord Karsus 02-13-08, 07:43 PM	HTML bug or something... There is a few pages like this. I searched for the book on the website and found the gallery there. -Good news for maddog, then. Not really... Don't you know that Fey were created fully formed at the end of time, and live their lives in REVERSE? :eek: :P The ones that survive until the creation of the universe are actually the most ancient, powerful beings in existance. ;) :uh-huh: :gah:
Vulpes 02-14-08, 12:25 AM	Originally Posted by Markustay View Post Also, there is a fortress somewhere in the North (don't have my sources) that appears human-built, but dates back to before the Sundering. -The famous Ironfang Keep dates back to this time, and perhaps even before, it is said. An enigma on a grand scale. The Citadel of the Raven is the one some think was created by an ancient, Days of Thunder-era human civilization. According to Brian's Realmslore article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071107a&authentic=true), Ironfang Keep was probably a giant-built fortress.
Markustay 02-14-08, 01:13 AM	Still not anywhere near my sources, but I believe you are correct Vulpes. Of course, back then, it was probably known as the Citadel of the Pteradon. :P
Old Sage 02-14-08, 02:39 AM	The first mentions of Ironfang Keep appear in draconic legends around -25,000 DR [src: Cormanthyr].
risek 02-20-08, 12:49 AM	Depending how far back you go, you would probably see sarrukh and batrichi...there must have been a point where the other races had not yet evolved....perhaps humans evolved from a less specialized fey stock, some of which moved towards mountains and tundras, evolving larger due to great open spaces and large predators, becoming giants. From there a few giants would have adapted to use the weave, perhaps breeding back with humans for versatilty and intellect, then dispersing to secluded swamps to evolve into hags.