Post/Author/DateTime	Post
redless 09-10-06, 02:10 PM	both are epic level charcters and have only lived for a tenth of their lives. Another hundred years and they'll be level 30 another 100 40 another 50. They could totally be destined for godhood. Artemis would take the Mask domain (or whatever god is in forgoten Realms) and Drizzt could possibly take on Loth's domain (converting all those beatifully evil drow into angtsy dark elves) Tell me what you think.
Nickpire 09-10-06, 02:34 PM	I could see Drizz't becoming a Chosen of Mielikki if he isn't already, though I don't think the writers will ever make him and Artemis into gods. Mostly personal bias here, I think giving both characters divinity would cheapen them and their conflicts. As neither one in a book has been seeking godhood either, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly become gods based of level alone. Your realms though, do whatever you want in your games :).
Davidw 09-10-06, 02:47 PM	both are epic level charcters Neither are epic.
Raging_B0ner 09-10-06, 02:48 PM	niether character is epic yet...and the jump from low level epic to godhood is much more vast than simply gaining levels. Don't you have to do something similar to what Bane, Bhaal & Myrkul did and defeat a god in order to aquire some sort of divine essence? or slay a god and take over its portfolio? <----doing that is going to take more than a +2 defending scimitar and some limp wristed panther. BTW: there are plenty of warrior characters out there that are WAAAY past the level of Drizzt and Artemis who are true epic...and they aren't close to gods yet. (don't believe the hype...niether Drizzt or Artemis are close to being the greatest swordsmen of the realms)
GothicDan 09-10-06, 03:07 PM	..... NO. There's a hell of a lot more to being a god than being UBER LOLZ LEVELZ, and Artemis and Drizzt are both much lower level than a number of Faerunian NPCs out there. Larloch, Ioulaum, Aumvor, Elminster, the Simbul, Eltargrim, etc. All are/were super high level, and did not approach godhood.
Bladesong 09-10-06, 07:08 PM	Whooooo this is a head shaker. Artemis is human. He'll be dead long before he can achieve epic levels, unless that Shade essence gave him longevity. Did it? As discussed many, many times, physical combat-oriented characters don't usually gain epic levels. The only way I see for them to be elevated to godhood is if an already present diety sponsors them to gain divinity.
kaor 09-10-06, 07:34 PM	If they become gods it will be pity godhood. They aren't arcane casters. And they will have to check in with Mystra twice a day. Kind of an affirmative action thing by AO, someone has to take the crappy portfolios. If epic level non-casters are so uncommon, why does Epic Play have feats and equipment for non-casters? No one is ever going to be high enough level to take Epic Prowess or Exceptional Deflection. Or use one of those Epic Weapons? Unless Epic Constructs use it all. Hmmmm.
Bladesong 09-10-06, 07:46 PM	Just because there are feats supporting epic levels doesn't mean that there are a lot of epic non-casters. Heck, just because there is a gnome race doesn't mean that there are a lot of gnome PCs, right? If I thought of all the epic non-casters right from the top of my head, I could probably count them all with one hand.
kaor 09-10-06, 08:05 PM	Halfling, gnome, and half-orc npc's are hard to come by. My guess, in order of declining frequency: Humans -> Elves -> Half-elfs -> Dwarfs I remember there being a gnome in Soldiers of Ice. And there once was a certain Jan Jansen. After that I got nothin. One half-orc in Escape from Undermountain. There is Regis, and The Yellow Silk had a halfling bad guy. Mazzy Fentan of course. The guy from the Realmsmaster crew. Then I got nothin.
redless 09-11-06, 12:29 AM	Artemis is human. He'll be dead long before he can achieve epic levels, unless that Shade essence gave him longevity. Did it? It did give him longevity. He'll live as long as an elf. Also sorry about saying they were epic. I meant level 18. The characters that are higher levels than both of them I'm just wondering how old are they? I figured that since Drizzt is a child still by elf standard and he's already level 18 he would keep getting stronger and more famous to the point of worship. Same with Artemis. I could be wrong about something but if enough people worship you for long enough you have the possiblity of getting a portfolio. I can't remeber but in drow scociety aren't drow sacrificed if they get too powerful.
Bladesong 09-11-06, 12:53 AM	Well, let's look at it from a game POV. The further along you go in levels, the harder it is to gain the next level. While it takes 21,000 XP to reach level 7, it'll take almost as much just to go from level 19 to level 20. Should either of these characters spend their entire lives fighting every day, I can't imagine them going over level 40 and even then, they would be a longshot from divinity.
Krash 09-11-06, 01:46 AM	I was going to post something in depth but why bother. They are fictional characters in novels. They don't gain 'levels'. -- George Krashos *waiting for the inevitable rush of posters to do a product by product analysis of their stats from FR5 & FR7 onwards and the reasons why they DO gain levels and should be gods*
Selvarin 09-11-06, 01:56 AM	It did give him longevity. He'll live as long as an elf. Also sorry about saying they were epic. I meant level 18. The characters that are higher levels than both of them I'm just wondering how old are they? I figured that since Drizzt is a child still by elf standard and he's already level 18 he would keep getting stronger and more famous to the point of worship. Same with Artemis. I could be wrong about something but if enough people worship you for long enough you have the possiblity of getting a portfolio. I can't remeber but in drow scociety aren't drow sacrificed if they get too powerful. In Githyanki society their lich queen's the one who devours the souls of those who achieve a high level. As for the rest, it takes more than that to become a demipower. Much more. Hero (or anti-hero/villian) worship doesn't = impending godhood.
Bladesong 09-11-06, 02:06 AM	I was going to post something in depth but why bother. They are fictional characters in novels. They don't gain 'levels'. -- George Krashos *waiting for the inevitable rush of posters to do a product by product analysis of their stats from FR5 & FR7 onwards and the reasons why they DO gain levels and should be gods* Aw come on, it's fun to escape from the real world once in a while. Anyway, it's really the same non-gamewise. For example, I've been learning martial arts for almost 14 years now and the better I get, the harder it is to improve. There are only so many tricks you can learn and your body can only allow so much improvement. For me to reach the next "level", so to speak, I'd have to train for months and months while back in the day, it took me the same amount of time to go from having the lowest level of competency to becoming very good.
Fabius Maximus 09-11-06, 07:17 AM	If this happens, I quit playing in the realms. In Githyanki society their lich queen's the one who devours the souls of those who achieve a high level. Not anymore. She's dead. No, I mean she's really dead now.
Ripe 09-11-06, 07:54 AM	...Also sorry about saying they were epic. I meant level 18. Artemis is 18th level. Drizzt is only 16th. I figured that since Drizzt is a child still by elf standard and he's already level 18 he would keep getting stronger and more famous to the point of worship. Same with Artemis. I could be wrong about something but if enough people worship you for long enough you have the possiblity of getting a portfolio. ... Considering that their existance is known to maybe 0.5% of FR population and the amount of those ready to worship them is equal to 0% [not counting people in our world] chances of them becoming deities is almost non-existant. In fact, the only current novel character I see as deity in the future is Obould [and only if he succeed in building and maintaing his Kingdom of Dark Arrows].
Alediran 09-11-06, 10:26 AM	Artemis is 18th level. Drizzt is only 16th. Drow have a +2 Level Adjustment, so Drizzt's ECL is 18
Selvarin 09-11-06, 12:23 PM	If this happens, I quit playing in the realms. Not anymore. She's dead. No, I mean she's really dead now. When did she get killed? I know there was a mega-adventure in Dungeon but...
Bladesong 09-11-06, 01:02 PM	Drow have a +2 Level Adjustment, so Drizzt's ECL is 18 Not anymore. In 3.5, drow only have a +1 LA. Drizzt's stats have yet to have a 3.5 conversion.
Alediran 09-11-06, 02:30 PM	Not anymore. In 3.5, drow only have a +1 LA. Drizzt's stats have yet to have a 3.5 conversion. D&D 3.5 Core or FR? Because in RoF they are still a +2 LA.
Mirtek 09-11-06, 02:39 PM	When did she get killed? I know there was a mega-adventure in Dungeon but... No she didn't, at least not in canon. Yes there was this official adventure, but this adventure had no official ending. A canon adventure has a canon ending, usually some sidebar telling the DM how the canon timeline will proceed. But the Dungeon adventure lacked such an ending and thus it was never told whether she is slain or not and IIRC she has already been mentioned again in later supplements I figured that since Drizzt is a child still by elf standard and he's already level 18 he would keep getting stronger and more famous to the point of worship. Same with Artemis. The point is that the higher you get, the harder it becomes to get even higher. Drizzt is already in a situtation where he should be getting almost no XP for all the enemies he slays, because they're just too low for him.
KnightErrantJR 09-11-06, 02:53 PM	Neither Drizzt nor Artemis have a significant number of followers of any kind, though Artemis has more claim to this with his pull in Calimport. Without followers that regard you as godlike, its kind of hard to have anyone start to worship you. As far as levels go, there are many 16-18th level warriors in the Realms, and I'd be willing to bet you could make a better case fro their ascention than Drizzt or Artemis. Azoun was a 20th level fighter that ruled a kingdom and was generally well regarded/loved by the people he ruled. You would have a better chance arguing that he would become a demigod, but I doubt he would. Now, I will say that arcane magic definately isn't a prerequisite for becoming a god though. While we don't know what mortal statistics for Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul were, they didn't strike me as epic arcane casters. Further, Kelemvor and Cyric had no training in either arcane or divine magic, and both became gods. I think suitable godly candidates come to the position from lots of different paths, but those paths are suitably rare. To be completely honest, Bruenor and Jarlaxle have more of a shot at becoming gods than Drizzt and Artemis.
GothicDan 09-11-06, 03:07 PM	And let's remember that divinity is completely monitored by AO. Unless a deity isn't doing a good job representing and promoting his or her portfolio, there's really no reason for AO to allow more divinities to ascend into a given pantheon.
Duagloth 09-11-06, 03:08 PM	Not anymore. In 3.5, drow only have a +1 LA. Drizzt's stats have yet to have a 3.5 conversion. Where do you have this Idea from? Underdark is a 3.5 Book as far as I know. They still have +2 lvl Adj. there.
Duagloth 09-11-06, 03:10 PM	Shevarash became a god just by hunting drow. Drizzt could get a chaotic good god of XYZ if he is really good at XYZ and the Drow Pantheon has no god for it. Hmm but he maybe would need the help pf Lloth wich he doubtfully would get.
Alediran 09-11-06, 03:34 PM	Shevarash became a god just by hunting drow. Drizzt could get a chaotic good god of XYZ if he is really good at XYZ and the Drow Pantheon has no god for it. Hmm but he maybe would need the help pf Lloth wich he doubtfully would get. There is always more space for a god-champion of Mielikki. Besides, Lolth has no power to avoid entering the Drow pantheon, otherwise Eilistraee wouldn't be there.
GothicDan 09-11-06, 03:48 PM	Shevarash also did not become a god in the Abeir-Torillian Crystal Sphere. As far as we know, the Seldarine formed from even older deities, and those who were once mortal probably arose to divinity outside of Realmspace. In Realmspace, AO has very tight reigns on who becomes god of what, when, and why.
Riodrian 09-11-06, 05:31 PM	Drizzt and Artemis as somewhat entertaining characters in somewhat entertaining books. I appreciate what the author has done with them. As for godhood? Only rabid fanboys worship either one, no one in the Realsm would.
Duagloth 09-11-06, 05:50 PM	Well i would prefer that both stay mortal, but I wouldnt say its impossible for them to become gods.
Bladesong 09-11-06, 11:20 PM	Where do you have this Idea from? Underdark is a 3.5 Book as far as I know. They still have +2 lvl Adj. there. You know, I'm sitting here asking myself the same thing and I can't remember for the life of me. However, I know it to be true. It's definitely a D&D wide thing, as well as Realms specific, as every drow NPC I've seen in Dragon has only a +1 added to their levels for their ECL. Hopefully someone more learned than I can set us straight here.
Ripe 09-12-06, 02:44 AM	You know, I'm sitting here asking myself the same thing and I can't remember for the life of me. However, I know it to be true. It's definitely a D&D wide thing, as well as Realms specific, as every drow NPC I've seen in Dragon has only a +1 added to their levels for their ECL. Hopefully someone more learned than I can set us straight here. Stat blocks never list ECL. They do list CR, and drow do get +1 to CR.
Selvarin 09-12-06, 02:57 AM	[QUOTE=Mirtek]No she didn't, at least not in canon. Yes there was this official adventure, but this adventure had no official ending. A canon adventure has a canon ending, usually some sidebar telling the DM how the canon timeline will proceed. But the Dungeon adventure lacked such an ending and thus it was never told whether she is slain or not and IIRC she has already been mentioned again in later supplements.[QUOTE] Just checking, because that was new to me. had to wonder if I've been asleep the past few years.
Selvarin 09-12-06, 03:07 AM	Shevarash also did not become a god in the Abeir-Torillian Crystal Sphere. As far as we know, the Seldarine formed from even older deities, and those who were once mortal probably arose to divinity outside of Realmspace. Could you elaborate on that one?
Fabius Maximus 09-12-06, 07:52 AM	Just checking, because that was new to me. had to wonder if I've been asleep the past few years. Oops, my bad. Ah well, my 'yanki will have to deal with it, now.
Duagloth 09-12-06, 09:41 AM	Oh got it. They sill are Lvl. Adj. +2, but ther CR just increases by +1. Just like Liche Template. Lvl. Adj. +4 but CR +2.
Bladesong 09-12-06, 01:09 PM	Oh got it. They sill are Lvl. Adj. +2, but ther CR just increases by +1. Just like Liche Template. Lvl. Adj. +4 but CR +2. Ah, I was mistaken then. Forgive, please.
GothicDan 09-12-06, 02:23 PM	Could you elaborate on that one? Well, we know that the Seldarine were present and strong before they had a presence and followers in Faerun; in the beginning of the novel Evermeet, it talks of how they sprung from 'even older gods' (my thought on this was always the Norse deities, given similar archetypes and planar history). Now, this doesn't mean that Sheverash NECESSARILY became a deity from another world, but I don't think we really have any specific information saying that he was ever a mortal elf of Faerun; so he probably got introduced to Faerun like the rest of the Seldarine, who were interloper deities.
Alediran 09-12-06, 02:30 PM	Now, this doesn't mean that Sheverash NECESSARILY became a deity from another world, but I don't think we really have any specific information saying that he was ever a mortal elf of Faerun; so he probably got introduced to Faerun like the rest of the Seldarine, who were interloper deities. I'll check my F&P when I return home and bring the information tomorrow if nobody else has.
Dark Wizard 09-12-06, 06:07 PM	It seems like Shevarash was a Faerunian mortal before ascension. Note, like all ascended mortal, he ascended only with the help of another deity, in his case Fenmarel Mestarine. Except from the Demihuman Deities entry for Shevarash: "Nearly 6,000 years ago, circa - 4400 DR, on Midwinter night the longest, darkest night of the year-an army of duergar and drow poured forth from the Underdark and overran both the dwarven realm of Sarphil on the southern shore of the Moonsea and the Elven Court at the heart of the great forest of Arcorar. The Dark Court Slaughter claimed the lives of countless elves and dwarves, including most of the assembled leaders of the Fair Folk and the Stout Folk who had come to the Elven Court to reestablish their long-standing alliance. Among the fallen was the family of the archer-guard Shevarash, once a carefree hunter of the Elven Court. In an anger-tinged prayer to Corellon, Shevarash vowed to become the Seldarine's hand against the drow to extract revenge for the loss of his family. The grief-stricken warrior swore a grim oath neither to laugh nor smile until the drow goddess Lolth and her foul followers were destroyed. It was a tall order, but for the remainder of his life, Shevarash became the deadliest nemesis of the drow, raiding their underground cities, slaying their priests, and destroying shrines to their foul gods. Shevarash was finally slain by a horde of myrlochar (soul spiders) after killing the high priestess Darthiir'eigg Aleanrahel and six of her consorts, circa - 4070 DR. Upon his death and with the assistance of Fenmarel Mestarine, Shevarash the Black Archer underwent apotheosis to become the Night Hunter and the Arrow Bringer."
GothicDan 09-12-06, 06:18 PM	Ah, thanks Dark Wizard. I haven't read that book in forever. So, it was in fact Fenmarel who was the interloper in the first place. But the same point is still there, anyway - that in Realmspace, you just don't become a deity because you're very powerful or do something very well.
Selvarin 09-12-06, 10:44 PM	Well, we know that the Seldarine were present and strong before they had a presence and followers in Faerun; in the beginning of the novel Evermeet, it talks of how they sprung from 'even older gods' (my thought on this was always the Norse deities, given similar archetypes and planar history). Now, this doesn't mean that Sheverash NECESSARILY became a deity from another world, but I don't think we really have any specific information saying that he was ever a mortal elf of Faerun; so he probably got introduced to Faerun like the rest of the Seldarine, who were interloper deities. That's why I asked because in Demihuman Deities it says the following of Shevarash: Nearly 6,000 years ago, circa - 4400 DR, on Midwinter night-the longest, darkest night of the year-an army of duergar and drow poured forth from the Underdark and overran both the dwarven realm of Sarphil on the southern shore of the Moonsea and the Elven Court at the heart of the great forest of Arcorar. The Dark Court Slaughter claimed the lives of countless elves and dwarves, including most of the assembled leaders of the Fair Folk and the Stout Folk who had come to the Elven Court to reestablish their long-standing alliance. Among the fallen was the family of the archer-guard Shevarash, once a carefree hunter of the Elven Court. In an anger-tinged prayer to Corellon, Shevarash vowed to become the Seldarine's hand against the drow to extract revenge for the loss of his family. The grief-stricken warrior swore a grim oath neither to laugh nor smile until the drow goddess Lolth and her foul followers were destroyed. It was a tall order, but for the remainder of his life, Shevarash became the deadliest nemesis of the drow, raiding their underground cities, slaying their priests, and destroying shrines to their foul gods. Shevarash was finally slain by a horde of myrlochar (soul spiders) after killing the high priestess Darthiir'eigg Aleanrahel and six of her consorts, circa - 4070 DR. Upon his death and with the assistance of Fenmarel Mestarine, Shevarash the Black Archer underwent apotheosis to become the Night Hunter and the Arrow Bringer. Granted, this is a 2e source but much more in-depth than Faiths & Pantheons could do.
GothicDan 09-12-06, 10:51 PM	Yup. See my above post. I may like Elves, but Wood/Wild Elves aren't exactly my forte. ;)
Trailstalker 09-27-06, 01:59 AM	Drizzt could get a chaotic good god of XYZ if he is really good at XYZ and the Drow Pantheon has no god for it. Hmm but he maybe would need the help pf Lloth wich he doubtfully would get. Lloth favors Drizzt. He causes a ton of chaos among the drow whenever he encounters them, and thus pleases Lloth.
Selvarin 09-27-06, 02:01 AM	Lloth favors Drizzt. He causes a ton of chaos among the drow whenever he encounters them, and thus pleases Lloth. Yep, sure did. Caused a lot of her priestesses' best warriors (not to mention some of the priestesses themselves) killed in the process.
Donraj 09-27-06, 07:01 AM	No. Salvatore has said he doesn't want to write that kind of a story, and that he sees Drizzt as a small player in a very big world. He's a brilliant warrior, one of the best in the world, but he's not epic, and trying to make him epic really downplays some of his accomplishments. I definitely see him reaching low-epic levels, enough to surpass Zak, but a deity? That goes completely against the character. Drizzt himself sees deities as mysterious beings utterly beyond him. And, uhm Artemis not only hasn't lived "10% of his life yet," he's actually getting on in years, and he's commented that he's starting to slow down. One half-orc in Escape from Undermountain. Quarter-orc.
Lord Karsus 09-27-06, 10:44 AM	-I was going to post something meaningful, but I just give up...Drizzt strikes again...
Bladesong 09-27-06, 10:59 AM	Oh go ahead anyway. You know you want to!;)
Taarkoth 09-27-06, 02:03 PM	Honestly, I think its far more likely that Entreri will end up as a vestige as I don't think he worships any of the powers, and he certainly isn't going to put up with being turned into a brick. As for the Emo Kid, sainthood: likely, Chosenhood: possible but unlikely. Godhood? No, because as bad as Drizzt is, he isn't anywhere near emo enough to become the God of Angst. Plus he's getting laid now, which will, hopefully, lower his Angst-O-Meter.
Issabella 09-27-06, 02:27 PM	if anything would drive me away from the realms and into Eberonn....that would be the act.
Selvarin 09-27-06, 02:35 PM	Honestly, I think its far more likely that Entreri will end up as a vestige as I don't think he worships any of the powers, and he certainly isn't going to put up with being turned into a brick. As for the Emo Kid, sainthood: likely, Chosenhood: possible but unlikely. Godhood? No, because as bad as Drizzt is, he isn't anywhere near emo enough to become the God of Angst. Plus he's getting laid now, which will, hopefully, lower his Angst-O-Meter. Don't put it past Drizzt to find something to anguish over. what if he develops even a slight crush on one of the elven warriors he assisted in the Two Blades trilogy? Imagine the guilt next time he sees Cattie-Brie: "I've sinned in my heart, darling. As penance I must now go to a cave and mope for the next 40 years and subsist on sausage made from spiders."
Sparkcaster 09-27-06, 02:50 PM	both drizzt and artemis dont have an attitude for being god as far as I know from books .And technically there is not enough people to give them godhood.Artemis hates clerics and probably most of gods:) Drizzt can be demi-god like gwaeron windstorm technically again in Mielliki's sponsorship.As said above there are many other 30+ npcs out there which dont interested in godhood and has a potential as lifetime. So fear not :)
Lord Karsus 09-27-06, 03:10 PM	Oh go ahead anyway. You know you want to! -Well... if anything would drive me away from the realms and into Eberonn....that would be the act. -This basically sums it up, though I wouldn't start playing in Eberron. I'd just shrink back into my Star Wars novels, and put an even greater effort into my campaign setting.
Selvarin 09-27-06, 03:40 PM	Neither godhood nor sainthood would do for them. Theirs is a tale of two men and how they deal with the chips as they fall. If Artemis can leave this world (er, Faerun) a better man than he grew up to be, then that is more of an accomplishment than apotheosis. If Drizzt can find peace--and defend his ideals in the process--then he's found something better than a divine duty he has no desire for. In any event, ascension requires the right kind of story. They have great stories but 0000.0000% of it would rationalize such an elevation.
MazrimTaim 09-27-06, 04:24 PM	I am going to elaborate on not playing FR anymore if this ever were to happen. I can just see it now. "Drizzt, after killing every 4 Thayan Zulkirs by himself and reaching 60th level, finally reaches godhood through the awesomeness of his deeds" R.A. Salvatore well not really, he refused to write it
Selvarin 09-27-06, 04:31 PM	I recall reading where Salvatore said he wanted to avoid the Superman syndrome. If an 'S' appeared on Drizzt's chest it would be all over. Godhood would definitely be the Bells of Doom tolling.
DarkLiChNeaZur 09-27-06, 04:54 PM	i very much doubt that either will be gods, perhaps drizzt a chosen of mielikki yes but artemis i think is agnostic?! and plus Lolth is evil Drizzt is not
Diffan 09-27-06, 05:12 PM	Can you truly be agnostic living in the realms. I mean the Time of Troubles would basically trump your theories and ideas. As for Drizzt and Artemis being deities, I don't think so. I think it would take away from their character and cheapen the realms. As for becoming epic and a non-spellcaster I can see it done but I think it would take drizzt even longer to achieve that goal. He doent's fight Liches, or dragons by the dozens,(I know he helped kill Icingdeath), but he fights orcs and frost Giants and occasionally his own people. So while he slaughters the Orcs in droves he gains only minimal XP at best. Also, I don't think RAS wants him to be that, as Selvarin said "Superman" character, and I for one am happy about that.
Razilin 09-27-06, 05:58 PM	If this happens, I quit playing in the realms. Not anymore. She's dead. No, I mean she's really dead now. I already quit because Drizzt got ridiculous angsty again. And then not. He's like a teenager listening to Slayer and popping ecstasy. Liriel though...she at least has her hotness going for her.
DarkLiChNeaZur 09-27-06, 06:30 PM	hellz yea
Besshalar 09-27-06, 06:40 PM	Didn't the first edition have rules for attaining godhood ? And didn't it require a single minded determination ,to be a god, that went before anything else. And why would they want to be gods who wants that kind of pressure ?
Lord Karsus 09-27-06, 07:13 PM	Liriel though...she at least has her hotness going for her. -Can a fictional character, who is of a fictional race, who has what, three or four actual drawings of what she looks like, be hot? Don't know about that...
Selvarin 09-27-06, 07:43 PM	Can you truly be agnostic living in the realms. I mean the Time of Troubles would basically trump your theories and ideas. As for Drizzt and Artemis being deities, I don't think so. I think it would take away from their character and cheapen the realms. As for becoming epic and a non-spellcaster I can see it done but I think it would take drizzt even longer to achieve that goal. He doent's fight Liches, or dragons by the dozens,(I know he helped kill Icingdeath), but he fights orcs and frost Giants and occasionally his own people. So while he slaughters the Orcs in droves he gains only minimal XP at best. Also, I don't think RAS wants him to be that, as Selvarin said "Superman" character, and I for one am happy about that. In the Realms it's impossible not to recognize the gods, but to support them...hmm. I don't exactly care for how one must worship a god or get stuck in that 'wall' in the afterlife. There's no middle ground. One way around it is to look at ideals and what one strives for. Drizzt doesn't run around praising Mielikki every time he turns around but he pretty much furthers her cause (even if Lolth's followers have, in the past, stuck it to him by pointing out he further her cause by creating chaos within drow ranks--if it's true it's hurt her faithful as much as 'helped' her). As for Artemis, I think he's looking for something more to believe in even as he gets manipulated by our friendly drow mercenary pal. Perhaps he'll find it before getting on the wrong end of a sharp blade.
Selvarin 09-27-06, 07:45 PM	-Can a fictional character, who is of a fictional race, who has what, three or four actual drawings of what she looks like, be hot? Don't know about that... If people can go ga-ga over Betty Rubble or Wilma Flintstone they surely can over Liriel...in any event Todd Lockwood's artistry is pretty good at putting flesh upon a fictional character.
Donraj 09-28-06, 04:00 AM	Entreri, and any Realmsian character, can still be agnostic in the sense that they deny that the gods' divinity accords them any special moral or spiritual status. Given the amount of high magic running around in this, or most other, D&D settings is it really so unreasonable to believe that the gods are just extremely arrogant and powerful magical beings? As for questioning the existence of the gods, well, not everyone saw a god during the Time of Troubles, and even in our world we've had hundreds of reports of divine miracles and apparitions throughout history, including to this day. This hasn't led to universal belief in any particular deity.
GothicDan 09-28-06, 04:55 AM	According to Ed, the vast, vast majority of people of Faerun do in fact believe in Gods. They don't care much about the nature of divinity, or whatever truth that may hold, but gods as powerful, intelligent entities, they do indeed believe in. Almost everyone experiences these divine miracles at least once in their lives, and many times on smaller scales; the deities of Faerun make it obvious to the mortals that they exist.
eocine 09-28-06, 09:48 AM	I believe that the Agonistic slant in Faerun is that the 'Gods' are merely beings of extreme power, who have managed to fool the credulous populace into calling them Gods.
Yakostovian 09-28-06, 10:24 AM	both are epic level charcters and have only lived for a tenth of their lives. Another hundred years and they'll be level 30 another 100 40 another 50. They could totally be destined for godhood. Artemis would take the Mask domain (or whatever god is in forgoten Realms) and Drizzt could possibly take on Loth's domain (converting all those beatifully evil drow into angtsy dark elves) Tell me what you think. NO. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What makes the forgotton realms unique is the characters. Not 100 characters all promoted to godhood since their lifetime is almost up. And seriously, Lolth is not going away, so if Drizzt "takes over" the mantle of any God, its going to be one that A) he gets along with B) that he admires the principles of. That pretty much means he should take the place of Meilikki if he were to ascend and "Take over."
Bladesong 09-28-06, 01:10 PM	Heh before Drizzt takes a step like this, I think he should go through some character development first. Maybe if he turns evil...
Selvarin 09-28-06, 03:26 PM	NO. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What makes the forgotton realms unique is the characters. Not 100 characters all promoted to godhood since their lifetime is almost up. And seriously, Lolth is not going away, so if Drizzt "takes over" the mantle of any God, its going to be one that A) he gets along with B) that he admires the principles of. That pretty much means he should take the place of Meilikki if he were to ascend and "Take over." Huzzah. *clap* Now I'll play Devil's Advocate: It's easy, though, to create any demipower one likes. A simple play of words (aside from AO/DM approval) worthy of Oghma. Drizzt could be known as "The Hunter in Darkness", Demipower of Swordcraft, (Dissident) Underdark Warriors, and/or (Drow) Redemption. Something like that. Despite serving Mielikki he could act as a bridge between Eilistraee and Shevarash sects in their war upon drow who remain unrepentently evil--while holding out a fig leave to those who have a glimmer of something else inside them. Official Realms, ever? No, thankfully so. We have enough gods. But since this is all fanciful thinking, shoot right away. And yes, I'm well aware that Shevarash only tolerates Eilistraee and her followers, with no cooperation between the two. That was the point.
Trailstalker 09-29-06, 12:06 AM	I've often wondered since "The Dark Elf Trilogy" if Drizzt isn't some sort of "Chosen of Lloth". Sure, he doesn't worship her, but he causes so much chaos among the drow when he encounters them (either in the Underdark or on the surface), and he's gotten out of so many experiences that would have laid low even an extraordinary drow warrior, that surely the Spider Queen has some sort of eye on him. Things that make you go "hmmmmmm".
Selvarin 09-29-06, 12:30 AM	I've often wondered since "The Dark Elf Trilogy" if Drizzt isn't some sort of "Chosen of Lloth". Sure, he doesn't worship her, but he causes so much chaos among the drow when he encounters them (either in the Underdark or on the surface), and he's gotten out of so many experiences that would have laid low even an extraordinary drow warrior, that surely the Spider Queen has some sort of eye on him. Things that make you go "hmmmmmm". ??????????????? Drizzt was/is a thorn in her side. She may enjoy/take advantage of some of the chaos that ensued when ordering her people to kill him, but really...no hmmm there. Lolth can't stand any affront to her, a male drow escaping her priestesses--and remaining free/independent/alive--wouldn't make him a candidate for Lolth's chosen. Bringing his head back to Menzoberranzen, however, now that would garner much favor from her. The underlying moral of Lolth and drow society (in this instance) is that those who seek to escape, to buck the system...all such drow must pay a price in Lolth's viewpoint. And generally they do. Drizzt lost his father, although the choise was that of his father (who'd rather take his place as a sacrifice so that his son would live) Liriel certainly caused enough trouble for Eilistraee's followers when she needed their help, and Lolth made great sport of it. Liriel broke free but at the cost of many lives. In Drizzt's case, you could make a list of losses as well. It isn't easy. Blood is often the price exacted by a cruel, vicious goddess. Drizzt's continued survival has very little (i.e., nothing) to do with Lolth's "favor". His survival has more to do with his friends and, when no one else is there, drawing upon his own determination to make it.
Trailstalker 09-29-06, 01:42 AM	??????????????? Drizzt was/is a thorn in her side. She may enjoy/take advantage of some of the chaos that ensued when ordering her people to kill him, but really...no hmmm there. Lolth can't stand any affront to her, a male drow escaping her priestesses--and remaining free/independent/alive--wouldn't make him a candidate for Lolth's chosen. Bringing his head back to Menzoberranzen, however, now that would garner much favor from her. The underlying moral of Lolth and drow society (in this instance) is that those who seek to escape, to buck the system...all such drow must pay a price in Lolth's viewpoint. And generally they do. Drizzt lost his father, although the choise was that of his father (who'd rather take his place as a sacrifice so that his son would live) Liriel certainly caused enough trouble for Eilistraee's followers when she needed their help, and Lolth made great sport of it. Liriel broke free but at the cost of many lives. In Drizzt's case, you could make a list of losses as well. It isn't easy. Blood is often the price exacted by a cruel, vicious goddess. Drizzt's continued survival has very little (i.e., nothing) to do with Lolth's "favor". His survival has more to do with his friends and, when no one else is there, drawing upon his own determination to make it. It's a front, man. The Spider Queen loves him. Oh, no doubt she was pretty ****** off in the beginning (thus the downfall of House Do'Urden, although one could say that was just a front to keep the rest in line), and I'm sure she'd have alot of angst to take out on him if she ever managed to get ahold of him, but I've come to the belief that now she accepts him - and loves his affect on her Drow. As such a lover of Chaos, how could she not? She might hate his guts, but I think she loves what he does to her people even more, and that outshadows her hate. She obviously can't do anything about him, so why not use him to her advantage? His damn near single-handed escape (yeah yeah, Catti helped) from Menzo is just one example. Seriously, how do two people (Drizzt & Catti) escape from the largest city of the Drow? Coincidence? I think not! Keep in mind, this is all tongue-in-cheek, but going back & re-reading it all, I can't help but wonder if there's more to some of his escapades than we really consider.
Lord Karsus 09-29-06, 01:52 AM	If people can go ga-ga over Betty Rubble or Wilma Flintstone they surely can over Liriel...in any event Todd Lockwood's artistry is pretty good at putting flesh upon a fictional character. -I think I am lucky that I don't know anyone who has ever gone ga-ga over Wilma and Betty...:rolleyes:
Selvarin 09-29-06, 02:54 PM	-I think I am lucky that I don't know anyone who has ever gone ga-ga over Wilma and Betty...:rolleyes: There are fanboy coversations like that every so often--Wilma or Betty, Winnowil or Leetah (Elfquest), which Star Trek episode had the...argh. Imma gonna stop there.
Sparkcaster 09-29-06, 03:01 PM	Drizzt cant be chosen of lloth .Because he sweared many times to lloth and hates her as a drow and Loth cant accept him as chosen :) She didnt act against him several times because of those chaos thingies and major chaotic event in menzoberranzan which feeds her .
Spectralion 09-29-06, 04:01 PM	I like the idea of Drizzt being a chosen of Lolth. I mean he is pure chaos, he took part in the destruction of two houses. He could be some kind of cleaner for Lolth and renewer of Drow society without knowing it. I dont think he causes real problems for Lolth and the destruction of the Baenre's Temple must have caused terrible fear in this family and therefore "motivated" them. A sweet reminder of Lolths unpleasant nature and the price of failure. :cool:
Issabella 09-29-06, 04:51 PM	-I think I am lucky that I don't know anyone who has ever gone ga-ga over Wilma and Betty...:rolleyes: both were trumped by La blue girl and Jessica Rabbit :)
Selvarin 09-29-06, 05:24 PM	I like the idea of Drizzt being a chosen of Lolth. I mean he is pure chaos, he took part in the destruction of two houses. He could be some kind of cleaner for Lolth and renewer of Drow society without knowing it. I dont think he causes real problems for Lolth and the destruction of the Baenre's Temple must have caused terrible fear in this family and therefore "motivated" them. A sweet reminder of Lolths unpleasant nature and the price of failure. :cool: If that's the case then anyone who causes any disruption among the drow ought to be eligible. Feet on the ground. Please. But the rest I can agree with, and who is Lolth to not take some pleasure or advantage in the repercussions of an enemy's actions/reactions? She isn't after him anymore, not in the same sense, as since then she's had bigger fish to fry. You (as Lolth) take a few shots at someone, they miss (somewhat), so you attend to other matters that need addressing. Then, in your spare time (if you have any), you go back since revenge is best served cold. Perhaps send The Hand of Vengeance (an elite strike force of Lolth's, 3.0'd in Dragon but which I updated later) to deal a little damage, perhaps not even lethally. As I recall hearing on a Joss Whedon show, "Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain."
GothicDan 09-29-06, 10:28 PM	Drizzt is not a Chosen of Lolth.
Selvarin 09-29-06, 10:47 PM	both were trumped by La blue girl and Jessica Rabbit :) Or Jessica Simpson. She may be real but she may as well be a 'toon. :D
Trailstalker 10-01-06, 04:09 AM	Drizzt is not a Chosen of Lolth. It's all tongue-in-cheek, people. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Jeeze. :P
Issabella 10-01-06, 09:13 AM	It's all tongue-in-cheek, people. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Jeeze. :P and thats why its better to go with thongs or bare bottom on internet arguments, much more difficult to twist up. Besides watching people get worked up on internet arguments is wonderfully amusing. I Love the internet and these boards for the information and humor that is availible, but a little demon on my shoulder urges me to go to the arms and equipment section of the D&D boards and make posts about Kattana's should be 3d12 damage (17-20) x4 and keep up the arugment with anime arugments, and obscure links to the glory of the Kattana just to watch the arguments. But I am a bad bad person.
GothicDan 10-01-06, 10:38 AM	Clear word stressing does not indicate unnecessary irateness. :)
Yakostovian 10-02-06, 05:37 AM	I usually show irateness as capitalized, bold and italicized. No mistaking it then. Par Exampla: Knock IT off!
Trailstalker 10-02-06, 05:38 AM	Clear word stressing does not indicate unnecessary irateness. :) It's all good, bubba. We're cool.:thumbsup:
Lord Karsus 10-03-06, 08:10 PM	I Love the internet and these boards for the information and humor that is availible, but a little demon on my shoulder urges me to go to the arms and equipment section of the D&D boards and make posts about Kattana's should be 3d12 damage (17-20) x4 and keep up the arugment with anime arugments, and obscure links to the glory of the Kattana just to watch the arguments. But I am a bad bad person. -What kinds of doofuses would get into an extreme argument about katanas, and their European counterparts? -Oh, wait. Nevermind...;)
Zevox 10-05-06, 07:44 PM	Good lord, no. They're talented warriors, but theres no reason whatsoever for them to be even considered for Godhood. Hell, Entreri hates Clerics, and I can't imagine him much liking Gods given that - its even possible that whatever experience he had that made him hate them caused him to become one of the few beings in the Realms who doesn't believe in the Gods. And Drizzt has been just barely lucky enough to have a couple of Gods notice he exists beyond just accepting some prayers from him - theres no reason Mielikki would consider him for Godhood if she didn't consider someone like Montolio for it. The characters that are higher levels than both of them I'm just wondering how old are they? Very, in most instances. Those in the low epic levels are generally hundreds of years old at least (Elves and Liches), though a few exceptional humans defy that. The really high level folks are at least over a thousand, often several thousand years old (see: Elminster, Aumvor, Ioulaum, Vhostym, etc). Zevox
TonyMontana1638 10-07-06, 01:31 AM	Barring another Time of Troubles, absolutely no well in hell... Though that could very well be Bob Salvatore's next logical step towards driving all the WotC and FR geeks completely insane. ;)
samkin 10-17-06, 12:21 PM	as interesting as these books are to read I doubt either of them will ever make Godhood...and I'm glad for it. with the recent Jarlaxle/Artemis books you'll find that Bob Salvatore has forced Artemis down a path *sissification*- which I hope will get him killed early so as to maintain his legacy as the evil villian we all fell in love with and not a wrecked shell of a human wrought with guilt for a lifetime of murder. as for Drizzt...I doubt Bob will ever kill him off but I firmly believe it's in the best interest of FR. He's done so much already and is nigh impossible to kill. Bob's a great author, much more than I could ever hope to be but I am years tired of Drizzt and feeling that same way with Artemis growing.
Selvarin 10-17-06, 03:44 PM	as interesting as these books are to read I doubt either of them will ever make Godhood...and I'm glad for it. with the recent Jarlaxle/Artemis books you'll find that Bob Salvatore has forced Artemis down a path *sissification*- which I hope will get him killed early so as to maintain his legacy as the evil villian we all fell in love with and not a wrecked shell of a human wrought with guilt for a lifetime of murder. as for Drizzt...I doubt Bob will ever kill him off but I firmly believe it's in the best interest of FR. He's done so much already and is nigh impossible to kill. Bob's a great author, much more than I could ever hope to be but I am years tired of Drizzt and feeling that same way with Artemis growing. With all due respect I disagree. Artemis is being made more 'human', which is what he's been all along. We've just seen him from the business side for so long. His time spent in Menzoberranzen was enough to show him what true evil is. He's still who he is but now we see more of what goes on inside him. I see no sissification going on with him.
Davidw 10-17-06, 04:11 PM	"Sissification". I like that word. :) For what it's worth, I agree. Artemis Entreri used to be *the* coolest assassin in the world, not to mention the deadliest. Now he's working as a travelling sellsword. A bit of a comedown from what he was to what he is now.
Zsych 10-17-06, 05:13 PM	Hmm... i have little to say on this issue :) 1. The number of portfolios and gods has been increasing over time. So some could open up for them. 2. Ao may not really care much who ascends to godhood as long as they don't disrupt his game(any more than the existing ones) 3. Drizzt and lot are never going to be level 50 or 40. Considering the usual rate at which time passes in FR, it's gonna be several hundred years before Drizzt or Enteri reach their 400th birthday. 4. Plus... they aren't casters. Going by game rules, they'd have to fight increasingly powerful monsters to reach high levels.. which is unlikely(at least from Drizzt and probably also for Enteri), while not facing ones so powerful that they get killed themselves... and ignoring game rules, i still think that they'll never come across the experiences needed to evolve to level 50 characters.
Lord Karsus 10-19-06, 09:17 AM	4. Plus... they aren't casters. Going by game rules, they'd have to fight increasingly powerful monsters to reach high levels.. which is unlikely(at least from Drizzt and probably also for Enteri), while not facing ones so powerful that they get killed themselves... and ignoring game rules, i still think that they'll never come across the experiences needed to evolve to level 50 characters. -You can get EXP for doing other things, other than fighting. ::shrug:: -You really shouldn't have breathed a bit of life into this thread, methinks. It was better off dying...;)
Selvarin 10-19-06, 09:19 AM	-You can get EXP for doing other things, other than fighting. ::shrug:: -You really shouldn't have breathed a bit of life into this thread, methinks. It was better off dying...;) Yep, indeedy.
Lord Karsus 10-19-06, 09:20 AM	-What, the EXP, or giving the thread life?
Selvarin 10-19-06, 09:32 AM	-What, the EXP, or giving the thread life? The whole thing. The idea of mortals having to achieve 40-50th level before being 'eligible' for godhood, etc. etc...Some threads have interesting 'what if' scenarios, this has ceased to be one. And for those who get a kick out of the sissification idea, keep this one point in mind: Artemis was quickly becoming a one-dimensional character due to his hatred for Drizzt. It had to end, as did the focus on nailing our favorite renegade drow, or neither would have much left. Salvatore (thankfully) has been able to write books about related characters that don't revolve around Big D, giving them a second life (as it were). It's not like Artie's writing a journal about his feelings (which would indeed veer towards sissification), we're just seeing what's going on with him in this new phase of life. He either has to evolve or truly die, not even he can go through the rest of life not looking back on his past or thinking about something more. Rest assured, there will be a double-cross that'll snap him back. Just a little. But he won't be your favorite one-trick pony like he used to be. And Jarlaxle just might find he doesn't escape from the debacle fancy-free like he's used to. *veers back to the topic at hand* Big D and Artie: gods? Never. And it won't have a thing to do with not being wizards, not having high levels, or any of that.
DemonGodKarsus 10-19-06, 03:45 PM	Drizzt was said to have great potential for wizardry(don't remember his stats), and i personally thought that killing Lolth would be a worthy quest for a drow hero... on his way to godhood. A worthy choice, to seek to change the face of Toril @LK: Experience wise.. what kind of experience is a fighter likely to have that would take him to the same level of development as a wizard developing epic spells. Drizzt and Enteri are described as having nearly perfect fighting styles. Are they supposed to grow naturally till they have strength and dexterity over 200? I doubt that it is possible for a fighter of any sort, without other tools(like magic, or divine favor) to achieve 40th level(finding hard quests but not so hard that they are crushed, again and again, would require true miracles). With a caster, its at least somewhat believable. A 40th level fighter would no doubt reach that level as the lackey of a 60th level Wizard. [shakes his head] It is truely disappointing to find even the left over pieces of the Greater Clone, i sacrificed showing such limited insight.
Issabella 10-19-06, 06:08 PM	*cries* this thread seems to have more life the Jason Vorheese.
Lord Karsus 10-19-06, 07:47 PM	-Why, why, why? KtM, are you here? We seem to have stumbled upon yet another clone. That makes three by my count...:weep: -I swear, I'm going to have to put a bounty on these things soon...
DemonGodKarsus 10-20-06, 01:55 PM	Think what you will little shard of my cloned soul. In time you will find yourself once more a part of me. For there is and will always be One Karsus. All else are merely the reflections of myself in a metaphysical circus mirror. ... Little things that i will consume as part of my triumphant return to Toril, after i have insured that Ao is no longer a match for my mastery of all things arcane. For after all, he is but a god, as am I, and the gulf between us is shrinking as we speak.
Davidw 10-20-06, 03:37 PM	Think what you will little shard of my cloned soul. In time you will find yourself once more a part of me. For there is and will always be One Karsus. All else are merely the reflections of myself in a metaphysical circus mirror. ... Little things that i will consume as part of my triumphant return to Toril, after i have insured that Ao is no longer a match for my mastery of all things arcane. For after all, he is but a god, as am I, and the gulf between us is shrinking as we speak. Hmm.... someone seems to be taking the "Karsus is mad" bit to a new extreme.
Issabella 10-20-06, 03:43 PM	relax I think some one is just using the ice assasin spell on Kraus from frost burn. (hands down one of the most broken spells in the game ever!)
redless 10-20-06, 09:24 PM	I have'nt read the Avatar series and I would like to know what classes of the three people who ascended to godhood.
Zsych 10-21-06, 01:04 AM	Mystra - Wizard 9(i think), don't remember the others. ... I was about to go into ranting mode, but i think i won't :) @DavidW: Maybe he just seems mad 'cus he knows more than you :) Lord Karsus at least after his siding with the elves in the Shade vs. Evermeet thread, proves his lack of true netherese blood. No doubt he was created as an experiment by elves trying to understand greatness they could never achieve themselves. LOL. Hmmm... it might be interesting to have on these boards RPed representations of different characters in FR. Too bad we don't know all that much about a lot of characters.
Lord Karsus 10-23-06, 11:59 AM	Hmm.... someone seems to be taking the "Karsus is mad" bit to a new extreme. -Well, you know how cloning goes. They realize they're nothing but pale comparisons of the original, and go crazy. Or, they suffer from clone degeneration, and cease to exist. The former is the more interesting of the two, by far. Lord Karsus at least after his siding with the elves in the Shade vs. Evermeet thread, proves his lack of true netherese blood. No doubt he was created as an experiment by elves trying to understand greatness they could never achieve themselves. LOL. Hmmm... it might be interesting to have on these boards RPed representations of different characters in FR. -Actually, no. After attaining godhood, and expanding my mind in ways that no mortal being can fathom, I came upon the conclusions that I reached. -In regards to that second thing. I tried something like that one. I was in one of my creative moods, and began to write. I was trying to convert our Shade vs. Evermeet thread into a conversation between different sages and scholars at Candlekeep. I never finished...:weep:
Lord Karsus 10-23-06, 12:01 PM	Think what you will little shard of my cloned soul. In time you will find yourself once more a part of me. For there is and will always be One Karsus. All else are merely the reflections of myself in a metaphysical circus mirror. ... Little things that i will consume as part of my triumphant return to Toril, after i have insured that Ao is no longer a match for my mastery of all things arcane. For after all, he is but a god, as am I, and the gulf between us is shrinking as we speak. -Clone, methinks you are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I'm not in a very talkative mood right now, but perhaps you'd like to talk to my other tripartite self, KtM. He'd set you in your place.
Darth_Incognito30 10-24-06, 07:19 AM	I don't think that Artemis Entreri will become the god because of this mere race of human. Human's lifespan is impossible to reach the power of god. If he does, i think he will become the god of Strife. Drizzt Do'Urden, well he can because of his race of dark elf. If he does, he can become Helm, the god of Guardains.
Issabella 10-24-06, 08:10 AM	I don't think that Artemis Entreri will become the god because of this mere race of human. Human's lifespan is impossible to reach the power of god. If he does, i think he will become the god of Strife. Drizzt Do'Urden, well he can because of his race of dark elf. If he does, he can become Helm, the god of Guardains. Except in FR several humans have become gods. Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra (III), Gaeweron (or was he half elf?), Kraus (temp, but divine rank is divine rank) and I am sure a few others. If anything humans have more drive and abilitie to become gods
Karsus the Mad 10-24-06, 11:25 AM	-Clone, methinks you are suffering from delusions of grandeur. I'm not in a very talkative mood right now, but perhaps you'd like to talk to my other tripartite self, KtM. He'd set you in your place. Ah, but we have no need to. "It" does it itself. For there is and will always be One Karsus. All else are merely the reflections of myself in a metaphysical circus mirror. Poor degenerate clone...there there...it'll be ok. You don't have to be ashamed of being a 69th generation clone. Here you go, have a :cookie: and go back into your stasis. The longer you stay out of stasis with the lack of any Karsi essence, the further depraved your maddening mind will become. The signs are obvious. Thinking you're the One Karsus, that souls can be cloned, and that Ao is a god. Tsk tsk:nonono: There can be only three Karsi of the Tripartate and only one aspect can be insane, and that seat is taken by yours truly. Application into the Karsi denied:evillaugh Except in FR several humans have become gods. Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra (III), Gaeweron (or was he half elf?), Kraus (temp, but divine rank is divine rank) and I am sure a few others. If anything humans have more drive and abilitie to become gods Add the First Mystra also. She was originally a mentally retarded farm girl that just happened to be hit with Mystryl's divine energy.
Davidw 10-24-06, 01:51 PM	I'm surprised Karsus the Mad hasn't pointed out that his namesake was a God. Only for five seconds and then he died, but he still achieved Godhood.
Lord Karsus 10-24-06, 02:37 PM	Drizzt Do'Urden, well he can because of his race of dark elf. If he does, he can become Helm, the god of Guardains. -Too bad there already is a Helm, and he does not seem to be going anywhere, especially since that would be a violation of his own dogma/mantra (abandoning posts). -As for those humans who became deities, I can also think of these guys off the top of my head: Mystra, v. 2.0 Finder Wyvernspur Torm Uthgar Velsharoon Azuth Savras And Yours Truly! -And KtM, thanks for "laying the smackdown". I remember that phrase...What a phrase it was...:)
DemonGodKarsus 10-24-06, 04:52 PM	@The Broken Karsi: You would call yourself Karsus and yet not realize that I would never give up my aspiration to become the greatest of all beings. Not even for my people. I would never commit myself to a suicidal path like some altruistic fool. What I needed was a replacement, a being who thought as I thought, and would wield the power of Mystryl's divinity as I myself would. That the being failed only proves the inferiority of the soul I bound to that construct containing my memories.. For I, the True Karsus, have never failed at anything I have done. Re: Artemis Enteri's limited lifespan: He is a shade. He will live as long as an elf, but with the superior mindset of a human and thus he will grow as far as he can, while Drizzt Do'Urden will die satisfied as a mere Ranger.
Karsus the Mad 10-24-06, 07:39 PM	I'm surprised Karsus the Mad hasn't pointed out that his namesake was a God. Only for five seconds and then he died, but he still achieved Godhood. No need to worry my dear Davidw, I didn't forget or overlook. Our lovely Issabella has already pointed it out. Dear DemonGodKarsus, You're in the Altered How the Mighty Have Fallen, in the Rumors and Hooks section. This section in particular. Karsus is truly dead and this new impostor shares none of Karsus's attributes. He lacks any knack at spellcasting. A former student of Karsus, the young boy was somehow altered negatively by the magical forces of the Karsus Enclave at the time of the Fall and he wrongly believes that he is Karsus (but thankfully noone else he meets does). We remember you now. You failed Basic Cantrips 101. The letter to your parents shouldn't cause you any grudge against the True Karsi or our academic facilities. It's your own fault that you couldn't cast a simple prestidigitation cantrip. LK and myself, KtM, cannot legally be held responsible. Your parents, and yourself, signed an agreement with our Academy of Generalized Magical Theory. It is legally binding, by Netherese Law. But don't worry. There's still hope for you. You can reapply one year after Netheril has returned to Faerun in all its glory. However, we, the Tripartate Karsi are currently not reviewing any application you apply, due to the limited number of students we can support at any given time, and the maximum has been reached. We strongly recommend that you seek other avenues of employment. Don't call us, we won't call you. Thank you, Co-Chairman of the Tripartate Karsi, Karsus the Mad P.S. Ye know we're just playing with you right?
Lord Karsus 10-25-06, 11:43 AM	You would call yourself Karsus and yet not realize that I would never give up my aspiration to become the greatest of all beings. Not even for my people. I would never commit myself to a suicidal path like some altruistic fool -Well, this further proves that you are nothing but a degenerated Clone, at best, or the kid that KtM was referring to. We liked Netheril. In fact, we developed and cast Karsus' Avatar in order to save her. We remember you now. You failed Basic Cantrips 101. The letter to your parents shouldn't cause you any grudge against the True Karsi or our academic facilities. It's your own fault that you couldn't cast a simple prestidigitation cantrip. LK and myself, KtM, cannot legally be held responsible. Your parents, and yourself, signed an agreement with our Academy of Generalized Magical Theory. It is legally binding, by Netherese Law. But don't worry. There's still hope for you. You can reapply one year after Netheril has returned to Faerun in all its glory. However, we, the Tripartate Karsi are currently not reviewing any application you apply, due to the limited number of students we can support at any given time, and the maximum has been reached. We strongly recommend that you seek other avenues of employment. Don't call us, we won't call you. Thank you, Co-Chairman of the Tripartate Karsi, Karsus the Mad -Indeed.
Karsus the Mad 10-25-06, 09:12 PM	-Indeed. "Indeed"? That's all I get? While you were sitting in your beanbag chair watching TV, I was coming up with a retort to our unclaimed clone. Oh! It's veggies for you mister:waits:
Zsych 10-27-06, 02:22 AM	This is kinda amusing(this debate between the Karsi), not sure what can be done when you're flinging cow dung at each other though :) @LK: Would Karsus have really developed KA to save Netheril? The Karsus in the novels of course, was just crazy. But let's say, he did create a spell that was likely to kill him, really why wouldn't he look for an alternative to his death? This creating a clone idea, seems like as good a solution as any for saving Netheril(something that Karsus did want to save), without suffering himself. Too bad, we don't know of any Manshoon-ish cloning spell from Karsus. @KtM: My point about KA(possibly from some other thread), is that going by usual scientific development, if you want to make a space ship, it takes knowledge of a hundred disciplines, a lot of things would get made in the process as you reached the level where you could make the space ship(which is really a combination of lots of technological artifacts). Karsus should have developed lots of intermediate spells dealing with gods directly, and others(not intended at the time to have anything to do with gods) that eventually enhanced his knowledge to the point that he would be able to create the complete product that was Karsus Avatar. (although, with your scientific bias, you probably understand that anyway :))
Errean 10-28-06, 10:10 AM	At least this thread isn't about Drizzt and Entrei becoming gods or some such nonsense anymore...
DonGnocci 10-30-06, 03:35 PM	They both suck and are skillbotched. Where does all that enthusiasm about these two sissies come from?
Lord Karsus 10-30-06, 08:11 PM	@LK: Would Karsus have really developed KA to save Netheril? The Karsus in the novels of course, was just crazy. But let's say, he did create a spell that was likely to kill him, really why wouldn't he look for an alternative to his death? -I originally developed the spell in order to deal with the Phaerimm, who were messing with my empire, remember. I wasn't supposed to die. Here is what was supposed to happen: I become deity of magic. Using my newfound position, I deal with the Phaerimm threat, and stop them from further destroying my empire. When things were all done, I would become mortal again- or perhaps not. Who knows what would have happened after that? The possibilities are endless. But again, it was not the spell that killed me. It was Mystryl destoying the Weave, which kinda messed things up. Oh, and all that divine energy pulsing through my brain was a little intense too- think Listerine, but in the brain. I could've handled it though... This creating a clone idea, seems like as good a solution as any for saving Netheril(something that Karsus did want to save), without suffering himself. Too bad, we don't know of any Manshoon-ish cloning spell from Karsus. -Again, I wasn't supposed to die. It wasn't my spell that did it. But anyway, I can remember creating at least one clone. Of course, there seems to be a lot more than just that one running around these days... At least this thread isn't about Drizzt and Entrei becoming gods or some such nonsense anymore... -Exactly! ;)
Karsus the Mad 10-30-06, 08:28 PM	-I originally developed the spell in order to deal with the Phaerimm, who were messing with my empire, remember. I wasn't supposed to die. Here is what was supposed to happen: I become deity of magic. Using my newfound position, I deal with the Phaerimm threat, and stop them from further destroying my empire. When things were all done, I would become mortal again- or perhaps not. Who knows what would have happened after that? The possibilities are endless. But again, it was not the spell that killed me. It was Mystryl destoying the Weave, which kinda messed things up. Oh, and all that divine energy pulsing through my brain was a little intense too- think Listerine, but in the brain. I could've handled it though... -Again, I wasn't supposed to die. It wasn't my spell that did it. But anyway, I can remember creating at least one clone. Of course, there seems to be a lot more than just that one running around these days... -Exactly! ;) Ahem:waits: I remember specifically that is was my aspect that developed and cast the spell:confused: And remember, we did think the chance of survival was slim, but we did it anyway, because we loved our empire:cloud9: Anyone saying otherwise is spreading anti-Karsite propaganda:pbbbtt: Hehe....listerine to the brain...sounds familiar.... Degenerate clones...not originals...clones made from cloned dingleberries technically shouldn't be considered clones...regardless of rules.
Lord Karsus 10-30-06, 08:31 PM	-Your aspect this, and your aspect that! You make it like I never did anything. Tell the good people about all of the important things that my aspect did!
Karsus the Mad 10-30-06, 09:15 PM	-Your aspect this, and your aspect that! You make it like I never did anything. Tell the good people about all of the important things that my aspect did! Oh, ok...:shifty: ................:thinks: There. Happy:bigeyes:
TonyMontana1638 10-30-06, 11:50 PM	I have'nt read the Avatar series and I would like to know what classes of the three people who ascended to godhood. No idea in terms of levels, but Midnight/New Mystra was a wizard, Cyric was a rogue and Kelemvor was a fighter.
Zsych 10-31-06, 04:48 AM	LK, KtM: This arguement with yourself thing has gotten kinda tiring. Let it die(for a while at least). And regarding Karsus, in the original write-up of course, KA was permanent. Later it became not only temporary, but likely suicidal(which is how it is now). KA being suicidal has nothing to do with problems like the target god killing itself. With Karsus knowing that he was probably going to die. I don't think that he would have gone into it without backups. After all, how long he would have the power, or whether he would survive it, was in doubt. (and I doubt that a regular Clone spell would've saved him from the situation anyway) So I agree with DGKarsus, he probably would have had a backup(if his magical knowledge contained any method whatsoever, that could keep him from dying)... After all, there was the possibility that things would go badly, so that The Archwizard, would still be needed by the Netherese. --- If I was Karsus and had enough time, I'd probably create another being to ascend as well(though I would think more along the lines of ascending an apprentice... or mind whammying one, and then giving him the power). ... Most likely that technique would still suffer, since I would be the caster, and Mystryl's death would at least disrupt the spell. ... But in such circumstances, I think I would have survived(and my apprentice would be a statue :))
Errean 10-31-06, 05:19 AM	No idea in terms of levels, but Midnight/New Mystra was a wizard, Cyric was a rogue and Kelemvor was a fighter. They were all supposed to be mid-level (5-10). They weren't raised to godhood for skill or ability, let alone level, it was a "right place, right time" sort of situation.
Lord Karsus 10-31-06, 08:59 AM	They were all supposed to be mid-level (5-10). They weren't raised to godhood for skill or ability, let alone level, it was a "right place, right time" sort of situation. -I believe that their stats are in the Avatar Trilogy 2e Adventures. Happy -No.
Karsus the Mad 10-31-06, 09:51 AM	And regarding Karsus, in the original write-up of course, KA was permanent. That was also an error, as even throughout NEoM, it's described as temporary. It was later errated to limited duration (still unknown exactly how limited). Later it became not only temporary, but likely suicidal(which is how it is now). It was always possibly suicidal. Karsus felt he would likely die, but still went ahead with it. Obviously, the manner and reason in which he died differed tho'. KA being suicidal has nothing to do with problems like the target god killing itself. True. With Karsus knowing that he was probably going to die. I don't think that he would have gone into it without backups. After all, how long he would have the power, or whether he would survive it, was in doubt. What always confused me was that after taking power from Mystryl, if she hadn't offed herself, why allow the spell duration to end?:P As god of magic, he'd have had the ability to keep the spell going indefinately. So I agree with DGKarsus, he probably would have had a backup(if his magical knowledge contained any method whatsoever, that could keep him from dying)... After all, there was the possibility that things would go badly, so that The Archwizard, would still be needed by the Netherese. Obviously any possible backups still failed, so it's rather moot.
Lord Karsus 10-31-06, 12:22 PM	What always confused me was that after taking power from Mystryl, if she hadn't offed herself, why allow the spell duration to end?:P As god of magic, he'd have had the ability to keep the spell going indefinately. -I agree. As a deity, the normal rules of time, space, and all of that good stuff don't effect you like they would a normal. In controling magic, we could have allowed our spell to last indefinitley. So, in effect, we could have been the perminent deity of magic, had things not ended as they did. Shucks...
longarm 10-31-06, 01:54 PM	Obviously any possible backups still failed, so it's rather moot. If I recall the Temptation of Elminster novel contains some information along these lines...and yes it failed. -Longarm
redless 10-31-06, 07:11 PM	They both suck and are skillbotched. Where does all that enthusiasm about these two sissies come from? because they have books centered around them. and you know what f*** em. subject change. out of all the characters R.A. Salvatore created who is most likely to become a god.
Crust 10-31-06, 07:47 PM	out of all the characters R.A. Salvatore created who is most likely to become a god. Cordio Muffinhead. :dancin:
Bladesong 10-31-06, 08:44 PM	because they have books centered around them. and you know what f*** em. subject change. out of all the characters R.A. Salvatore created who is most likely to become a god. None of them and all of them. As said many times already, there is no natural progression towards godhood. You could be a level 66 archmage or level 57 paladin and not be any nearer to godhood than a first level rogue. Things happen and if you're lucky, you become a god.
Lord Karsus 10-31-06, 10:26 PM	Cordio Muffinhead. :dancin: -Was he the Dwarf whose legs were always pumping? :)
Zsych 11-01-06, 04:01 AM	@KtM: Point is that he might not have been completely sure about what his abilities would be as god of magic. I think he understood what gods were, and what their basic abilities are, but his spell was a general one, not one specific to Mystryl. I suspect his research was also general, and not really targeted on Mystryl(or he may have realized the problems that might occur)... probably just a side-product of his research on transforming himself into a god. Forced by necessity, he took a short-cut. As for what version of Karsus would survive. Well, if I was Karsus, I'd have lots of clones running across the planes(imagine, being able to create a copy of yourself so that you can follow every path that interests you). Assuming that he had at least one clone, outside of Toril(as a backup, and also for general research), it may be that a message would have been sent to recall that clone in the event of Karsus' death... only no such message got sent because of magic and the relevant spell getting screwed up. If such a clone existed, it may have been intended for it to not return unless absolutely necessary, so as not to disrupt the life of normal Karsus. ... Such a Karsus may have returned anyway, of course(afterward), and finding Netheril destroyed, found no reason to stick around... planning to return only when he was a full god(or had other powers with which to defeat the Phaerimm)... assuming that he returned at all. ... Might even have forgotten Netheril in the following millenia :) ------------------------ As for which Salvatore character has the highest probability of ascension. I'd go with Cadderly. His god would probably be willing to sponsor him, if the opportunity arose.
Karsus the Mad 11-01-06, 09:39 AM	@KtM: Point is that he might not have been completely sure about what his abilities would be as god of magic. I think he understood what gods were, and what their basic abilities are, but his spell was a general one, not one specific to Mystryl. I suspect his research was also general, and not really targeted on Mystryl(or he may have realized the problems that might occur)... probably just a side-product of his research on transforming himself into a god. Forced by necessity, he took a short-cut. As you said, it was a general spell, capable of targeting any single deity. Karsus' choice of Mystryl was because he felt of all the gods, the goddess of magic was the one that suited his purpose: to wipe out whatever magic was causing Netheril to collapse. If he didn't die, and gained some power from it, then that'd just have been an added bonus:P As for what version of Karsus would survive. Well, if I was Karsus, I'd have lots of clones running across the planes(imagine, being able to create a copy of yourself so that you can follow every path that interests you). The problem would be that not a single clone would activate, regardless of how many. A clone needs a soul. The backlash caused by Mystryl's suicide not only petrified his divine engorged body, but shattered his soul and trapped it, preventing any transfer to a clone. An eidolon would be much better, but that's speculation on my part. Assuming that he had at least one clone, outside of Toril(as a backup, and also for general research), it may be that a message would have been sent to recall that clone in the event of Karsus' death... only no such message got sent because of magic and the relevant spell getting screwed up. As I said above, a clone only activates if the soul is transfered to it. His shattered soul was trapped. No transfer occured.
Errean 11-02-06, 06:00 AM	because they have books centered around them. and you know what f*** em. subject change. out of all the characters R.A. Salvatore created who is most likely to become a god. Honestly, one of the Harpells. Probably by accident too. Who I'd like to see? The Captian of the Sea Sprite (what's his name). Greatest anti-pirate eva!
Zsych 11-02-06, 06:01 AM	When I say clones... I mean Manshoon style clones, that Karsus really should have developed :) I know the regular clone spell, and its really no better than resurrection. Karsus really should have made something similar to that artifact that copies all non-magical objects(including living beings). Well.. whether or not he did. It's probably the kind of thing that I'd have as my primary priorities as a wizard(along with immortality). ... Like I said... pursue every path that interests you. Leave nothing undone(maybe develop some kind of telepathic sharing system for periodic use). (One wonders what soul the various Manshoons are sharing... I don't usually use the word soul in that respect... same soul, different spirits and different minds perhaps.. as I define spirits :))
Lord Karsus 11-02-06, 09:11 AM	Who I'd like to see? The Captian of the Sea Sprite (what's his name). Greatest anti-pirate eva! -I don't remember his name either, but I vaguely remember him dying...
Lord Karsus 11-02-06, 09:12 AM	I know the regular clone spell, and its really no better than resurrection. -Well, with the Clone spell, you don't have to go through all of the pain of having your soul ripped from the loving embrace of your deity.
Errean 11-02-06, 09:23 AM	-I don't remember his name either, but I vaguely remember him dying... Well, that matters not. Ao may call him away from his slaying of many after-life pirates to serve as a diety of privateers, or something. Death doesn't make you immune to being a god, just ask Kelemvor.
Lord Karsus 11-02-06, 09:26 AM	Death doesn't make you immune to being a god, just ask Kelemvor. -No, it doesn't. What's bugging me is that I can't remember his name. Of course, all of my books are still packed away, since I just moved, so I can't check those. It's right on the tip of my tongue...
Errean 11-02-06, 09:36 AM	I want to say it's starts with a "V"... or maybe an "S". Damn, I don't remember.
Lord Karsus 11-02-06, 10:27 AM	-Aha! Wasn't it Captain Macumail, or something like that?
redless 11-02-06, 12:02 PM	Captin Duerdumont?
ShadezofDis 11-02-06, 12:47 PM	Captin Duerdumont? Close but misspelled. Captain Deudermont ftw! Thanks google :) Kelemvor was a straight fighter, 7th level I believe (as per . . . Hall of Heros was it? I forget, 2e book anyhow detailing a lot of realms npcs), he was also a cursed wereleopard (I think it was a wereleopard) Midnight was a straight wizard, I'm pretty sure she was 7th as well but it was a moot point for a large part of the Avatar trilogy she couldn't use any magic (unless I'm not remembering correctly at all, it's been over a decade since reading those *g*) Cyric was something like a level 2 fighter level 5 rogue Anyhow, not a single one of them would be able to beat your favorite PC before they accended to godhood (an arguement could be made for the weilder of Masks avatar. . . godslayer or some such nonsense)
ShadezofDis 11-02-06, 12:50 PM	Oh, and they'd best not shake up the gods again, they're gods, they should stay gods and the mortals should be focused on. This whole revolving gods nonsense really needs to go. Though I did really enjoy . . . the trial of cyric the mad was it? The one where cyric was on trial anyhow, gave me some respect for the twerp :)
longarm 11-02-06, 12:54 PM	-Aha! Wasn't it Captain Macumail, or something like that? Hmm...I haven't read the book in question but Macumail is the guy who writes the letter to Khelben describing Evermeet and its people in the Elves of Evermeet supplement. No reason it couldn't be the same person though. -Longarm
Bladesong 11-02-06, 01:27 PM	Eh? But Macumail and Deudermont are two different people... :confused:
longarm 11-02-06, 01:42 PM	Eh? But Macumail and Deudermont are two different people... :confused: No they're different people. Since I've never read the novel in question I have no idea what the name of the captain is...the posts clarifying that Deudermont was this person were written at about the same time and I hadn't seen them. Deudermont = Captain in the novel (this is a Salvatore novel right?) Macumail = Captain who writes letter in Elves of Evermeet Sorry for being confusing, -Longarm
ShadezofDis 11-02-06, 01:43 PM	Looks like he missed a couple of posts, that's all.
ShadezofDis 11-02-06, 01:44 PM	Deudermont = Captain in the novel (this is a Salvatore novel right?) Macumail = Captain who writes letter in Elves of Evermeet Sorry for being confusing, -Longarm You are correct sir!
Lord Karsus 11-02-06, 01:51 PM	-Been confusing my Deudermonts and my Macumails...
ShadezofDis 11-02-06, 03:03 PM	-Been confusing my Deudermonts and my Macumails... Sounds like a personal problem. . . and rather disgusting ;)
Bladesong 11-04-06, 10:58 AM	Yes, I knew I wasn't crazy.
Lord Karsus 11-05-06, 08:26 PM	Sounds like a personal problem. . . and rather disgusting ;) -There are worse things to do...like crack, for instance.
ShadezofDis 11-06-06, 12:44 PM	-There are worse things to do...like crack, for instance. Well said.
redless 04-11-07, 01:56 AM	crack isn't as bad as this
Grandmaster_Kane 04-11-07, 02:39 PM	art has lived %40 of his life he will be lucky too hit age 100 before someone knifes him
Derren S. 04-11-07, 05:08 PM	Lore and game mechanics or not, if enough fanboys want it then it will happen. The only question is if Salvatore breaks and writes the novel himself (for a lot of money) or if someone else has to do it.
creyzi4zb12 04-12-07, 09:01 AM	Nah, it would loose the interest for readers if Drizzt becomes that uber. That's coz he's not as uber as u think he is. Comeon, he couldn't even beat Obould. Obould kicked his a**!!
GothicDan 04-12-07, 11:37 AM	I beat Obould with a rusty Q-tip.
ShadezofDis 04-12-07, 12:56 PM	I beat Obould with a rusty Q-tip. Yeah, orcs are mighty susceptible to tetanus ;)
GothicDan 04-12-07, 01:05 PM	And fireballs.
ShadezofDis 04-12-07, 01:28 PM	And fireballs. Too true! Grease fires are a ***** to put out!
Karsus the Mad 04-12-07, 01:33 PM	I beat Obould with a rusty Q-tip. A rusty Q-tip eh? I wasn't aware a cardboard and cotton item could oxidize. Just goes to show ya learn something new everyday;)
ShadezofDis 04-12-07, 04:12 PM	A rusty Q-tip eh? I wasn't aware a cardboard and cotton item could oxidize. Just goes to show ya learn something new everyday;) It's because it's a FANTASY world. Come on man, you should know that ;)
Karsus the Mad 04-12-07, 04:19 PM	It's because it's a FANTASY world. Come on man, you should know that ;) The Realms has cardboard also?! Damn! I learned two things in one day:D Well, no surprise, with matches and all that jazz:)
Treymordin 04-12-07, 09:59 PM	Nope, if they were to become gods they would be the patrons of cheese and other dairy products!
GothicDan 04-12-07, 10:56 PM	Treymordin... Just as a friendly suggestion... Trolling isn't cool. At least, not when it's out in the open and not disguised in pedantic, condescending posts involving a lot of verbosity. ;)
ShadezofDis 04-13-07, 01:35 PM	Just as a friendly suggestion... Trolling isn't cool. At least, not when it's out in the open and not disguised in pedantic, condescending posts involving a lot of verbosity. ;) Yep, this is going in my sig ;D
redless 04-13-07, 01:38 PM	Isn't there one new god that has ****** off all the gods by stealing their portfolios. Maybe a god will pick a champion to off the punk. Maybe it will be Drizzt, or Artemis, or Bruernor, or Jarlaxle. It will probably be Eleminster since he slept with his matron god and was technically her mentor for a while. I hope the new god (Just remembered Cyric) picks Artemis as his champion and Artemis turns around and kill him becoming a god himself. That would make me giggle.