Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Odette 12-22-07, 07:56 AM	Does anyone know in what book I can learned what happened between these two to make Vangerdahast not want to speak to Elminster? It has been alluded to in couple of novels, but I can't find what actually happened.
Stigger 12-22-07, 11:12 AM	Don't think its ever been really detailed actually... at least I've never been able to find anything solid on it.
Faraer 12-22-07, 11:51 AM	Go here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/sse_050607-04.htm) and search for "Briefly put, Vangerdahast".
Odette 12-22-07, 03:11 PM	The Impression I got from STORMWATCH and Storm Silverhand's comments to Vangerdahast, was that there was something specific. When Sotrm says that Elminster "forgave him as soon as it happened", but Vangy stated he had not...it leads one to believe there was something specific. I don't see a reference to anything like that on Ed's Notes.
Kenzuki 12-22-07, 07:03 PM	Knowing him he probably slept with his girlfriend or something.
Andferne 12-22-07, 08:55 PM	Did it have to do with the whole Devil Dragon and Vangy realseing her, useing that wish or sometihng? IDK I didnt know the two werent talking lol.
Lord Karsus 12-23-07, 02:13 AM	-I prefer Vangerdahast to Elminster, myself.
Stigger 12-23-07, 01:39 PM	I have to admit, Vangey is one of my favorites in the Realms... I like Elminster and all, but there's just something really spiffy about Vangey. Was really sorry to see him retire when he did. Would have preferred him to (actively) stick around a few more centuries had I been given the option.
Lord Karsus 12-23-07, 01:46 PM	I have to admit, Vangey is one of my favorites in the Realms... I like Elminster and all, but there's just something really spiffy about Vangey. Was really sorry to see him retire when he did. Would have preferred him to (actively) stick around a few more centuries had I been given the option. -He was the working man's Elminster. :)
Stigger 12-23-07, 02:05 PM	Heh, true, and far more amusing to watch in action... now there's a guy who's full of wheels within wheels.
GothicDan 12-23-07, 02:08 PM	Just not as much as Khelben...
Lord Karsus 12-23-07, 02:14 PM	Heh, true, and far more amusing to watch in action... now there's a guy who's full of wheels within wheels. -Lots of coffee, I'm sure.
Stigger 12-23-07, 02:17 PM	Well, who can match Khelben for that? He is teh man after all...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 04:06 PM	I have to admit, Vangey is one of my favorites in the Realms... I like Elminster and all, but there's just something really spiffy about Vangey. Was really sorry to see him retire when he did. Would have preferred him to (actively) stick around a few more centuries had I been given the option. I agree. But I still prefer Elminster.:D
GothicDan 12-23-07, 04:17 PM	But you like Khelben even more!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-23-07, 05:01 PM	But you like Khelben even more! Heh! I love Khelben too--it's really, really hard for me to say I like one better than the other...:)
Stigger 12-23-07, 06:58 PM	*bites tongue*
MarkusTay63 12-24-07, 12:10 AM	Weren't both Khelben and Vangerdahast students of Elminster? Don't sell El short... he also taught Sammaster. Old El's been spinning the 'wheel-spinners' for a millenium now... mayhap he only comes off as a 'devil-may-care' letch. It puts others off their gaurd, and they never realize exactly how dangerous he is until its too late.
Bullet06320 12-24-07, 12:13 AM	I personally like Elminster better, he's a dirty old man thats got to much power to say no to. Vangerdahast is too stuck up and Khelben doesn't know when to take a vacation And whatever happened between El and Vangy? No Clue, its been alluded to in several sources but I don't think its ever been printed, Ed of the Greenwood may know
Old Sage 12-24-07, 01:18 AM	Ed does know. Faraer already posted a link to Ed's reply (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14646717&postcount=3) earlier.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-24-07, 09:09 AM	Weren't both Khelben and Vangerdahast students of Elminster? Vangey, yes. Khelben...I'm not sure. Elminster has had a lot of informal "students" over the years, though. I know Khelben was a pupil of Mentor Wintercloak though.:)
Kenzuki 12-24-07, 02:24 PM	Elminster gets on my nerves sometimes. He's like Samual L. Jackson's Mace Windu. He's too cocky and arrogant for his own good. I don't wish him to die or anything, just someone beat the crap out of him for once to humble him. That's what I'de like to do anyway.
GothicDan 12-25-07, 12:25 AM	Read Elminster in Hell. Sadism at its finest.
Kenzuki 12-25-07, 12:51 AM	Read Elminster in Hell. Sadism at its finest. It wasn't enough.
Lord Karsus 12-25-07, 01:23 AM	-I wouldn't consider Vangey and Elminster/Khelben on the same level. I say "working class", because Vangey is a "normal wizard"- he labored and worked for everything he knows (and wasn't gifted it), and isn't in the favor of the goddess of Magic- a perk if you are into Arcane magic, I'm sure.
Karsus the Mad 12-26-07, 02:13 AM	It wasn't enough. :mymy: Purely out of curiousity, what would be appropriate levels of pain?:) The whole getting ripped appart numerous times seemed a decent amount of graphically depicted moments of torture to me:P
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 02:21 AM	:mymy: Purely out of curiousity, what would be appropriate levels of pain?:) The whole getting ripped appart numerous times seemed a decent amount of graphically depicted moments of torture to me:P -Kids these days. I guess scenes of intense graphic violence and torture aren't enough to satisfy their insatiable appitites. I blame the liberal media. Or global warming. Choose your poison.
Karsus the Mad 12-26-07, 03:03 AM	-Kids these days. I guess scenes of intense graphic violence and torture aren't enough to satisfy their insatiable appitites. I blame the liberal media. Or global warming. Choose your poison. It's telly and video games I tell ya.
Stigger 12-26-07, 04:42 AM	Indeed... I blame the conservative media and their glorification of violence and brutality. :P
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 05:01 AM	-Wait a minute. We're both wrong. -Who else is dastardly enough to have corrupted an entire generation of Americans? I'll give eveyone a hint. His name rhymes with 'Itch Quaker', and he needs to be stopped...:incog:
Old Sage 12-26-07, 06:30 AM	The real impact of Elminster's injuries... was on his mind. And the loss of memories that make you what you are may be worse than the mind-rape.
Karsus the Mad 12-26-07, 06:56 AM	-Wait a minute. We're both wrong. -Who else is dastardly enough to have corrupted an entire generation of Americans? I'll give eveyone a hint. His name rhymes with 'Itch Quaker', and he needs to be stopped... You mean this guy? http://chickchat.ivillage.com/love/pictures/haddon_quakeroats.jpg Just look at him....his guilt is obvious! The real impact of Elminster's injuries... was on his mind. And the loss of memories that make you what you are may be worse than the mind-rape. That was...horrid. Tho' I do wonder to what degree. He lost some memories, but how would he know he lost memories, since he doesn't remember them?
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 07:14 AM	You mean this guy? http://chickchat.ivillage.com/love/pictures/haddon_quakeroats.jpg Just look at him....his guilt is obvious! -I said his name rhymed with 'Itch Quaker', not the Itchy Quaker! That was...horrid. Tho' I do wonder to what degree. He lost some memories, but how would he know he lost memories, since he doesn't remember them? -There's two schools of thought: Either you don't remember at all, or you do remember, but don't know what you don't remember anymore. The first is probably preferable. Ignorance is bliss.
Karsus the Mad 12-26-07, 08:24 AM	-There's two schools of thought: Either you don't remember at all, or you do remember, but don't know what you don't remember anymore. The first is probably preferable. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Can't really think of anything worse than possibility number 2.
GothicDan 12-26-07, 10:42 AM	It wasn't enough. Utterly disgusted. As has been said, getting your entire body ripped apart, mutilated, infested with maggots, etc... What more DO you want, and have you seen a psychiatrist lately? ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-26-07, 11:08 AM	The real impact of Elminster's injuries... was on his mind. And the loss of memories that make you what you are may be worse than the mind-rape. Well, if one of us can get him a copy of the novel, Elminster can read it, and get the memories back! It's a great idea, I tell you!:)
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 11:10 AM	Well, if one of us can get him a copy of the novel, Elminster can read it, and get the memories back! It's a great idea, I tell you!:) -The 4th Wall is just too strong I tell you!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-26-07, 11:16 AM	-The 4th Wall is just too strong I tell you! Elminster has been to our world before, and talks with Ed Greenwood, so Ed can just give him a copy of the book!
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 11:19 AM	Elminster has been to our world before, and talks with Ed Greenwood, so Ed can just give him a copy of the book! -He could also get a hold of AGHotR, inform Mystra of her impending doom, and do something about it. If it were only that easy...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-26-07, 11:25 AM	-He could also get a hold of AGHotR, inform Mystra of her impending doom, and do something about it. Yeah, he could! I bet the designers didn't even THINK of that!
Stigger 12-26-07, 12:18 PM	Well, they did mention his conversations with Ed of the Greenwood in AGHotR, so it could very well be a nice and simple, and easily justified canonical solution... not that I'm advocating any such thing...
MarkusTay63 12-26-07, 09:21 PM	However, it has been stated in canon that Ed gets his information from Elminster, and then TSR/WotC publishes it. That means the other thread IS correct in assuming that the new game year IS 1385 DR - according to FR lore, El must ghave reported those events to ED already. But... he also has a portal that leads to Earth in a different time period (I think Yellowstone in the 1800's), which means it is possible that the Elminster from the new 4e campaign date has a portal to Ed's in our current time, and has 'leaked' some information back in the past. Perhaps he did that so his past self will find it at Ed's, and then be able to act upon it. In fact... perhaps he does this all the time and that is why he always knows where and when to become involved. My head is starting to hurt, in a Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure kind of way. :twitch:
Old Sage 12-26-07, 09:54 PM	Elminster's Holdout in Realmspace has a portal to Ed's study and library at his home and to Yellowstone in 1894.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 12:21 AM	However, it has been stated in canon that Ed gets his information from Elminster, and then TSR/WotC publishes it. That means the other thread IS correct in assuming that the new game year IS 1385 DR - according to FR lore, El must ghave reported those events to ED already -Unless all of that was obtained via Divination.
Bullet06320 12-27-07, 01:08 AM	Ed does know. Faraer already posted a link to Ed's reply (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14646717&postcount=3) earlier. Thanks, that does explain what hasn't been published
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 01:27 AM	-Ugh, this just opened up a new can of worms. If Elminster doesn't remember what memories were stolen from him, how could he have come to Earth, and told Ed Greenwood which memories were stolen, since we have such scenes transcribed into Elminster in Hell? -This is why I don't like the 4th Wall being broken.
Kenzuki 12-27-07, 09:27 AM	I don't want Elminster to suffer or feel pain, I want him to be HUMBLED and know what it feels like to once again be a regular person trying desperately to survive without his pet goddess and the seven silver haired bimbos saving his tail all the time. Let's hope the Spellplague teaches him a lession in humility. I hope all the bad guys look him up after he loses his powers and repay him for all the mean things he's done to them.
Stigger 12-27-07, 09:32 AM	Erm... like what? He's just about the most humble Archmage I can even remotely imagine... especially given his age. I'm going to pointedly ignore the bimbo remark however, as I really don't want to get into that one again, at least beyond saying that perhaps you need to rethink your choice of words.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-27-07, 09:35 AM	Erm... like what? He's just about the most humble Archmage I can even remotely imagine... especially given his age. I agree. He lives in a friggin' farmhouse for goodness's sake.
Kenzuki 12-27-07, 10:35 AM	Um....farmhouse.....hrmmmm maybe I was mistaken about him. But come on someone has to play devil's advocate here! Give the villans and anti-heroes some loving!
The_Shaman 12-27-07, 11:14 AM	I don't want Elminster to suffer or feel pain, I want him to be HUMBLED and know what it feels like to once again be a regular person trying desperately to survive without his pet goddess and the seven silver haired bimbos saving his tail all the time. Let's hope the Spellplague teaches him a lession in humility. I hope all the bad guys look him up after he loses his powers and repay him for all the mean things he's done to them. Er, mean things? You mean barely comparable to what they had planned on others or him? I'd agree with what Rynonalyrna and Stigger have said. Mages, and particularly archmages, are imperious folk, and Elminster is about as humble and mild as they come. If you have the misfortune of crossing a mage of this caliber, pray it is someone like Elminster. We are talking about the same guy, right? Long grey beard, hooked nose, likes to smoke, currently believed to be intimate with the Simbul? Of course, it could be that I've recently read the first two Elminster books - the Making of a Mage and Elminster in Myth Drannor - where he is still young and fresh from his childhood. In these two, at least, he hardly needs a lesson in humility - although I do suppose that the thousand years afterwards may have changed him somewhat - and works no less diligently than any mage living or dead. Take the simple, barely-dwelled-on twenty years he serves as an apprentice to the Masked mage, and tell me how many mages of his caliber - and he was already a spellcaster of import - have gone through that. Even now, judging by his remarks in various FR books and from other sources, it's not him you should vent your ire at. If you consider Elminster overly proud, the Blackstaff - peace be upon him - should be a new Karsus, and any Thayan mage should be right off the radar. Actually, I think he's had quite a few karmik s..t coming his age to forget his humble beginnings - and recent years haven't been exactly easy on him. Around the death of Mystra II, his magic was hit just as much, if not more, than that of any other mage. Also, iirc very recently some Sharrans managed to mess with some artifacts and things got so bad Shadowdale was invaded - iirc it was in a current adventure. When's the last time something like that happened to, say, the Simbul? Or Larloch? Or the Haalruan elders? Give the villans and anti-heroes some loving! Doesn't the War of the Spider Queen series have a lot on Gromph Baenre? If you'd prefer a tale about the exploits of an evil archmage, it might be more fitting for you.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 02:04 PM	I don't want Elminster to suffer or feel pain, I want him to be HUMBLED and know what it feels like to once again be a regular person trying desperately to survive without his pet goddess and the seven silver haired bimbos saving his tail all the time. Let's hope the Spellplague teaches him a lession in humility. I hope all the bad guys look him up after he loses his powers and repay him for all the mean things he's done to them. -It's one thing to say that Tymora is a bimbo, but let's not get happy with the word. It's getting played out.
Karsus the Mad 12-27-07, 03:01 PM	-It's one thing to say that Tymora is a bimbo, but let's not get happy with the word. It's getting played out. An attractive but stupid young woman, esp. one with loose morals. Other than being attractive, the Seven don't fit the meaning too accurately.
GothicDan 12-27-07, 03:22 PM	I don't want Elminster to suffer or feel pain, I want him to be HUMBLED and know what it feels like to once again be a regular person trying desperately to survive without his pet goddess and the seven silver haired bimbos saving his tail all the time. Let's hope the Spellplague teaches him a lession in humility. I hope all the bad guys look him up after he loses his powers and repay him for all the mean things he's done to them. Wow. How old are you? I despise humility, and not EVERYONE feels humble, regardless of the circumstances. You can dislike the character all you want - that's fine with me, El isn't my favorite - but don't expect him to be written completely out of character, please. :) I find it really, really amusing that you hold these sort of opinions, and are one of the stronger proponents of 4E around here. It's really... Telling as to the audience that WotC is catering towards.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 03:26 PM	Wow. How old are you? -Our age. Younger than you, but older than me.
Karsus the Mad 12-27-07, 03:36 PM	I despise humility, and not EVERYONE feels humble, regardless of the circumstances. Of anyone, an ancient mage of rather hefty knowledge and power has all the right to be arrogant, haughty, prideful, and otherwise downright self absorbed. That Elminster isn't speaks volumes of his character.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 03:46 PM	-He is condescending, at times. He is allowed to be, though. Hell, I'm condescending most of the time, and I'm not an ancient Archmage.
Green Elven Vampire 12-27-07, 05:04 PM	Malchor Harpell was a student of Khelben and as far as I last knew, he is a very powerful wizard involved with the Moonstars. I think Malchor should lead the Moonstars now that Blackstaff is gone. Off topic... I REALLY want to read more of Harkle Harpell, written by another author besides Salvatore to get another's take on the eccentric mage. After all, Harkle created one of the coolest high level spells IMO... The Fog of Fate!!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-27-07, 05:53 PM	Off topic... I REALLY want to read more of Harkle Harpell, written by another author besides Salvatore to get another's take on the eccentric mage. After all, Harkle created one of the coolest high level spells IMO... The Fog of Fate!! Hmm, I once saw that spell refered to in a book review as a contrived plot device (and by that, I mean it was especially bare-faced, as all plot devices are technically contrived). I agreed with the reviewer after reading the book.
Old Sage 12-27-07, 06:42 PM	I think Malchor should lead the Moonstars now that Blackstaff is gone.Well, it's likely that Malchor will be among the first to discover that Tsarra is masquerading as Khelben in terms of his leadership of the Moonstars. Whether she and Malchor decide if she should maintain that role after her discovery, is another question entirely. Handing the reins of an operation as complex as the Moonstars over to Malchor may be the more appropriate option. Tsarra's going to have enough to contend with 'being Khelben' in terms of a presence in Waterdeep and a presence in his wizard school in Blackstaff Tower. What is likely is that she might relinquish one or both of those two offices. It's a crime to masquerade as a Lord of Waterdeep, so she may reveal herself to Peirgeiron who may decide to keep her on as a Lord. Or not. I'm hoping we'll learn more in Steven's Blackstaff Tower sometime next year.
Green Elven Vampire 12-27-07, 07:44 PM	I'm hoping we'll learn more in Steven's Blackstaff Tower sometime next year. Same here! I'm sure Malchor Harpell will have a role in that book if the Moonstars play any part in the story. After all, besides Laeral, Malchor is the next highest ranking senior member of the moonstars.
Karsus the Mad 12-27-07, 09:00 PM	I'm sick of having to sign into Gleemax every-****ing-whining-*****-pms-****-raping..time I want to post a bloody god damned forum message. I had a point, but apparently I was censored.....
Karsus the Mad 12-27-07, 09:04 PM	The above is my point. I was not allowed to express my personal opinion.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 11:21 PM	-Why don't you just click on that 'Remember me for two weeks' button? It leaves you signed in for two weeks.
Storm_Silverhand 12-27-07, 11:57 PM	Heya, Well, it's likely that Malchor will be among the first to discover that Tsarra is masquerading as Khelben in terms of his leadership of the Moonstars. Whether she and Malchor decide if she should maintain that role after her discovery, is another question entirely. Handing the reins of an operation as complex as the Moonstars over to Malchor may be the more appropriate option. Tsarra's going to have enough to contend with 'being Khelben' in terms of a presence in Waterdeep and a presence in his wizard school in Blackstaff Tower. What is likely is that she might relinquish one or both of those two offices. It's a crime to masquerade as a Lord of Waterdeep, so she may reveal herself to Peirgeiron who may decide to keep her on as a Lord. Or not. I'm hoping we'll learn more in Steven's Blackstaff Tower sometime next year. You know, this is interesting... First we have Vangerdahast pulling Caladnei out of nowhere, then we have Khelben turning the Moonstars and his tower over to Tsarra, who also appeared from out of nowhere (she'd never been referenced before in any other Realms product that I know of - the only thing I'll say here is I have every 3rd Edition supplement up to the Cormyr module (I am waiting to get to my F(not so)LGS to get what I'm missing))... Not that I'm really complaining about that - I think it's good... But it seems like they're going to be short lived. 4th Edition seems to make it likely that both Calandnei and Tsarra will become little more than footnotes in history... Both are sorcerers which means they have a more intuitive and, arguably, a more intimate connection to the Weave, and with the destruction of the Weave and the spread of the spellplague they may not survive the transition... :gah: I won't say anything more, because it will come back to me ranting about how we need more strong female characters in the Realms... And that 4th Edition Realms seems to be taking a step backwards on that front, despite WotCs expressed desire to go forwards (with such innovations as Astrid's Parlour and the publication of Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress).
Karsus the Mad 12-28-07, 12:33 AM	-Why don't you just click on that 'Remember me for two weeks' button? It leaves you signed in for two weeks. Never! Conspiracy I tell you...conspiracy! Storm sees it....
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 12:41 AM	Both are sorcerers which means they have a more intuitive and, arguably, a more intimate connection to the Weave, and with the destruction of the Weave and the spread of the spellplague they may not survive the transition... :gah: -Not necesarily. 4e Sorcerers, from what I hear will be changing, so while the characters might not die, there is no doubt that they will be changing. I see 4e Sorcerers akin to Psionic Wilders, in a way. Their magic is slightly less controllable, and has "quirky" side-effects. Never! Conspiracy I tell you...conspiracy! Storm sees it.... -I'm not too sure if she does.
Green Elven Vampire 12-28-07, 12:44 AM	If the Realms can have Arctic Dwarves, then I see no reason why the Realms can't have Snow elves, Frost elves or Blue elves, whatever we wanna call them.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 01:25 AM	After all, Harkle created one of the coolest high level spells IMO... The Fog of Fate!! -What did that spell do again? If the Realms can have Arctic Dwarves, then I see no reason why the Realms can't have Snow elves, Frost elves or Blue elves, whatever we wanna call them. -There's enough evidence, and a suffcient lack of evidence to support and refute them. That's the beauty of it. Personally, I like to think that they are there.
Green Elven Vampire 12-28-07, 01:47 AM	-What did that spell do again? The Fog of Fate transports the user to wherever they need to be to accomplish their goal or mission. Under the effects of this spell, the events of your journey are magically recorded meticulously in a journal. Upon arrival of your "needed" destination, you have no clue what to do or why you're there, only that you are there because that's where you need to be to accomplish your goal. There is more to it, but I don't have that novel in my hands. 9'th level spell I'd say.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 01:51 AM	The Fog of Fate transports the user to wherever they need to be to accomplish their goal or mission. Under the effects of this spell, the events of your journey are magically recorded meticulously in a journal. Upon arrival of your "needed" destination, you have no clue what to do or why you're there, only that you are there because that's where you need to be to accomplish your goal. There is more to it, but I don't have that novel in my hands. 9'th level spell I'd say. -Hmm...I'm going to have to agree with Rino. Bad plot device. There are too many...'variables', I guess, to make this an effective, actual D&D spell. If it was cleaned up a little bit, altered here and there, it would work, though. Basically a sort of massive teleport, with contingencies, and a geas, perhaps.
Green Elven Vampire 12-28-07, 02:08 AM	Basically a sort of massive teleport, with contingencies, and a geas, perhaps. That's exactly what the spell is. The contingencies are that if you read the magically written journal at all during the spells effects, then you break the spell and the memory of events that took place, and are teleported back to where you were when you first cast the spell. The Geas, I would assume is that you are compelled to accomplish the goal at hand, even though you don't know how to go about it.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 02:22 AM	The contingencies are that if you read the magically written journal at all during the spells effects, then you break the spell and the memory of events that took place, and are teleported back to where you were when you first cast the spell. -Exactly what I was thinking. The Geas, I would assume is that you are compelled to accomplish the goal at hand, even though you don't know how to go about it. -Again, exactly what I was thinking. -Very good, I've still got it! :P
Storm_Silverhand 12-28-07, 07:19 AM	Heya, -Not necesarily. 4e Sorcerers, from what I hear will be changing, so while the characters might not die, there is no doubt that they will be changing. I see 4e Sorcerers akin to Psionic Wilders, in a way. Their magic is slightly less controllable, and has "quirky" side-effects. Ah, but the designers have pretty much said they're using the Spellplague to wipe the Faerunian plate clean of "nuisance" spellcasters (you know, the ones who tie a DMs hands and force them to use them just to overshadow the PCs :rolleyes: ), which may include Tsarra and Caladnei... and if the spellplague doesn't get them, there's still a good chance the time jump will carry them off (that, of course, depends on how long the timejump is... we're all assuming 100 years because that gives enough time for the spellplague to happen and magic to settle back down into the new magical traditions) - well Tsarra may survive the time jump since she's a half elf... but maybe not since elf lifespans are now just 200 years, so we might see half elves only living as long as humans... So there's a good chance neither of them will make the transition. -I'm not too sure if she does. Tin foil hats! Tin foil hats! Get yer tin foil hats here! Just 1gp!
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 07:58 AM	Ah, but the designers have pretty much said they're using the Spellplague to wipe the Faerunian plate clean of "nuisance" spellcasters (you know, the ones who tie a DMs hands and force them to use them just to overshadow the PCs :rolleyes: ), which may include Tsarra and Caladnei... -I don't think Tsarra is on that "list" simply because, so far, she's been a non-factor. She's a new character who hasn't done much yet. Ask the average person (and probably half of the designers), and I'm sure theyll say, "Huh? Who?". -Caladnei...She might be on that list. She isn't exactly an "unreasonable" NPC, though, since she is, what, around 10th Level or so? If that's the "line" that the designers are drawing, she might be safe. and if the spellplague doesn't get them, there's still a good chance the time jump will carry them off (that, of course, depends on how long the timejump is... we're all assuming 100 years because that gives enough time for the spellplague to happen and magic to settle back down into the new magical traditions) - well Tsarra may survive the time jump since she's a half elf... but maybe not since elf lifespans are now just 200 years, so we might see half elves only living as long as humans... -I was going to bring that up, but don't forget that Wizards (and, by virtue) Sorcerers have "stashes" of Potions of Longetivity to increase their lifespans. While it might not be availible in D&D, Ed has stated that they exist in the Realms, and are regularly imbibed by Wizards/Sorcerers/Magic Users. Tin foil hats! Tin foil hats! Get yer tin foil hats here! Just 1gp! -Well, she's profiting from it, anyway.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 11:17 AM	4th Edition seems to make it likely that both Calandnei and Tsarra will become little more than footnotes in history... Both are sorcerers which means they have a more intuitive and, arguably, a more intimate connection to the Weave, and with the destruction of the Weave and the spread of the spellplague they may not survive the transition... :gah: Also, the Moonstars as a group might not even be around for 4E, especially with Rich expressing a desire to reunite them back with the Harpers.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 11:19 AM	The Fog of Fate transports the user to wherever they need to be to accomplish their goal or mission. Under the effects of this spell, the events of your journey are magically recorded meticulously in a journal. Upon arrival of your "needed" destination, you have no clue what to do or why you're there, only that you are there because that's where you need to be to accomplish your goal. There is more to it, but I don't have that novel in my hands. Thus making it among most corny, deus-ex-machina of spells I've ever seen before (the spell cast at the end of Storm of the Dead is probably worse though). Best spell ever? Maybe the one Karsus case that turned him into a god. ;)
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 12:33 PM	Best spell ever? Maybe the one Karsus case that turned him into a god. ;) -Hells yeah! I'm not biased, though. :cool:
The_Shaman 12-28-07, 12:37 PM	Hell, it would take a whole lot of bias to vote for anything else... I mean, there are some wicked epic spells (Ioulaum's Longevity, for example) but nothing else comes close to making you immediately kick a greater deity in the **** and take its position.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 12:58 PM	Hell, it would take a whole lot of bias to vote for anything else... I mean, there are some wicked epic spells (Ioulaum's Longevity, for example) but nothing else comes close to making you immediately kick a greater deity in the **** and take its position. -Shadez put it best: But he's Karsus, he stole the divinity of the Goddess of Magic with a spell. You really don't get more bad *** than that
Green Elven Vampire 12-28-07, 01:09 PM	Hell, it would take a whole lot of bias to vote for anything else... I mean, there are some wicked epic spells (Ioulaum's Longevity, for example) but nothing else comes close to making you immediately kick a greater deity in the **** and take its position. And then die, lol. Ohh well, I liked the fog of fate.
Karsus the Mad 12-28-07, 01:17 PM	-Why don't you just click on that 'Remember me for two weeks' button? It leaves you signed in for two weeks. Thank you. You reminded me of the point I was trying to remind myself of:P That doesn't work. Yet again I had to sign in and everything, despite having clicked the two weeks button. Woohoo, I thought I was crazy for forgetting why I ranted while I was ranting. -I'm not too sure if she does. She does, see? Tin foil hats! Tin foil hats! Get yer tin foil hats here! Just 1gp! One of those would go marvelously with my tin foil mace. Best spell ever? Maybe the one Karsus case that turned him into a god. ;) You'll make an excellent mage Rino:)
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 01:17 PM	And then die, lol. Ohh well, I liked the fog of fate. -Death? Psshh, if this is what death is like, I don't know why I didn't try it earlier.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 01:19 PM	Thank you. You reminded me of the point I was trying to remind myself of:P That doesn't work. Yet again I had to sign in and everything, despite having clicked the two weeks button. Woohoo, I thought I was crazy for forgetting why I ranted while I was ranting. -Aw, no problem. What's a tripartite aspect for, eh? :ayyyy!: You'll make an excellent mage Rino:) -It's true.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 03:35 PM	You'll make an excellent mage Rino:) Why thank you.;)
The_Shaman 12-28-07, 04:22 PM	And then die, lol. Ohh well, I liked the fog of fate. Look, it was enough that he achieved control of the Weave in spite of a divine being who happened to be practically the personification of the Weave. If he were able to maintain it during all the leeching the Netherese and many others did, without having any of Mystryl's divine abilities/experience, that would basically mean that he had enough potential to wipe his behind with Ao in a matter of days. Actually, I always thought there was something strange about this story, particularly what happened to Karsus afterwards. I always thought that if even fragments of his being remained, Mystra II collected them and stored them somewhere. She was the goddess of magic, after all, and Karsus achieved such a feat of magic so incredible that I can't imagine her simply giving up on him. He was, to my knowledge, the greatest mage ever, and it would be fitting if he had become her herald or lieutenant - either at the position Azuth occupies or as a kind of permanent magister-like figure.
Storm_Silverhand 12-28-07, 04:40 PM	Heya, -I don't think Tsarra is on that "list" simply because, so far, she's been a non-factor. She's a new character who hasn't done much yet. Ask the average person (and probably half of the designers), and I'm sure theyll say, "Huh? Who?". -Caladnei...She might be on that list. She isn't exactly an "unreasonable" NPC, though, since she is, what, around 10th Level or so? If that's the "line" that the designers are drawing, she might be safe. Caladnei is about 15th level, at the printing of FRCS she was a Sor 11/Ftr 4. Now I figure she's probably gained some levels in that time. One DM of mine looked at her stats, laughed, then immediately bumped her up to be epic. Tsarra may well be on the list simply by virtue of the fact that she is currently masquerading as Khelben... We mustn't confuse people! :rolleyes: -I was going to bring that up, but don't forget that Wizards (and, by virtue) Sorcerers have "stashes" of Potions of Longetivity to increase their lifespans. While it might not be availible in D&D, Ed has stated that they exist in the Realms, and are regularly imbibed by Wizards/Sorcerers/Magic Users. What Ed says is canon until contradicted in print. So, while he's not contradicted at the moment, he may well be come 4th Edition. Why is this? Because the easy access to longevity magic means that many wizards and sorcerers live far too long and become way too powerful (at least that'll be their reasoning, and they'll use the spellplague as an excuse why they no longer work, and why all these mages suddenly aged to death...). Also, while many powerful people of the Realms have access to longevity magic, as a general rule they're all elderly anyway. Mirt, for example, Filfaeril is another - both are well past their 60s - Mirt is probably closer to 100 (anyone able to give me an idea if I'm right?)... Myrmeen is 50, doesn't look it, and has even had a kid - there isn't any way it could be logical unless she's also been quaffing Potions of Longevity (which, I may add, is like playing Russian roulette... if I'm not mistaking there was a chance of aging to death by using them too much). Also, the Moonstars as a group might not even be around for 4E, especially with Rich expressing a desire to reunite them back with the Harpers. You know, I wouldn't be too surprised by that. I have a sneaking suspicion that Tsarra herself is CG or something of that ilk, and the Moonstars are a very grey (LN with a dash of evil) organization. Her personality might be more suited to the Harpers than the Moonstars. Despite that, I still feel uncomfortable with the idea that they might perhaps think that Tsarra is incapable of running the Moonstars on her own - I mean, some posters have already expressed the thought that she might have too much on her plate... I have to ask the question, though, if it wasn't too much for Khelben, why would it be too much from Tsarra, who effectively has Khelben hanging over her shoulder giving her direct advice? Thank you. You reminded me of the point I was trying to remind myself of:P That doesn't work. Yet again I had to sign in and everything, despite having clicked the two weeks button. Woohoo, I thought I was crazy for forgetting why I ranted while I was ranting. You might want to check your browser's cookie settings. It sounds like it's not remembering the cookie. She does, see? One of those would go marvelously with my tin foil mace. Only 1g! See how shiny they are? :D :$$:
Stigger 12-28-07, 05:12 PM	In the short term I think Tsarra would be incapable of running the Moonstars on her own to be honest. Once she assimilated the knowledge that Khelben passed on to her, I don't think it would be a problem in the slightest however. I suppose I could see a temporary leadership change over to Malchor, and then having it revert to Tsarra once she got her head together, so to speak. Though to be honest, I don't see the two organizations staying seperate for all that long either. And with the whole PoL thing, I'm not even sure they'll survive into 4e, at least in a recognizable form, considering how heavy they are with the NPCs who will likely be wiped away when 4e comes away. :(
Karsus the Mad 12-28-07, 07:26 PM	... I have to ask the question, though, if it wasn't too much for Khelben, why would it be too much from Tsarra, who effectively has Khelben hanging over her shoulder giving her direct advice? Mayhaps she has Khelben's knowledge, but not the experience or understanding that comes from centuries of gaining such knowledge.
Stigger 12-28-07, 07:32 PM	Its fairly arguable that she has some link to that experience and understanding as well really... so... yeah.
Karsus the Mad 12-28-07, 07:45 PM	Its fairly arguable that she has some link to that experience and understanding as well really... so... yeah. I was thinking that also, but in the novel she seems confused and overwhelmed. She had the memories, but she seemed less certain and more "trying to understand" the newfound information. Of course, I'm going by the novel alone. Has there been anything else about her since Blackstaff?
Stigger 12-28-07, 07:53 PM	Not that I'm aware of, but that's why I mentioned giving her time to assimilate everything that Khelben left her with. Doubtful it would be an instantaneous process.
Old Sage 12-28-07, 08:33 PM	I was thinking that also, but in the novel she seems confused and overwhelmed. She had the memories, but she seemed less certain and more "trying to understand" the newfound information.A period of acclimation may indeed be in order for Tsarra immediately after the events of Blackstaff:- a time for her to settle down and wrestle with the legacy Khelben has left her. Allowing Malchor to temporarily assume command of the Moonstars may be something she should consider... especially if her relative, and initial inexperience, makes it easier for Malchor to notice that there is indeed something wrong with "Khelben." And we know it's not unusual for Khelben to "disappear" from the public life of Waterdeep for long periods of time. This may also provide Tsarra with some time to "fall into the background" and adjust to her new position -- gaining as much help and insight as she can from Khelben's closest and most trusted associates. Of course, I'm going by the novel alone. Has there been anything else about her since Blackstaff?Tsarra has assumed the guise of the Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun. This means that right after the events of the novel, she is a Lord of Waterdeep, head of the Moonstars and mage teacher at Blackstaff Tower. We don't know what happens subsequent to that. As I said, Steven's Blackstaff Tower may eventually reveal a little more.
Storm_Silverhand 12-28-07, 10:10 PM	Heya, If Tsarra does make it into 4th Edition, I hope she sheds the guise of Khelben. No offense to those of you who liked Khelben, the idea that Tsarra has to give up herself to essentially allow Khelben further life is very horrifying to me. I have this thing about the death of self... But I'm sure you've all noticed that in me before. :)
Kenzuki 12-28-07, 10:18 PM	The fact that people are offended by my calling fictional characters "bimbos" or my comments towards Elminster is amusing. Gothic Dan, do you know why I'm so easy going about 4th edition? Because it's a GAME that's all it is. It's all imagenary, ment to be fun, it's nothing serious. To get mad over something so trife as your favorite imagenary god or person dying is just silly.
GothicDan 12-28-07, 10:21 PM	"The unexamined life is not worth living." Be passionate about what you believe in, is what I say. Does the death of FR affect me in ANY WAY in real life? Hell no. But when discussing it? Sure it does. I'm going on to grad school and all. But, seriously. If you don't get into what you love, then you don't really love it. It's also silly to be calling other people silly in a post with such dodgey grammar. ;)
Kenzuki 12-28-07, 10:23 PM	"The unexamined life is not worth living." Be passionate about what you believe in, is what I say. Does the death of FR affect me in ANY WAY in real life? Hell no. But when discussing it? Sure it does. I'm going on to grad school and all. But, seriously. If you don't get into what you love, then you don't really love it. It's also silly to be calling other people silly in a post with such dodgey grammar. ;) Ok, that's cool.
GothicDan 12-28-07, 10:24 PM	Cool. :) Mmm, wine.
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 01:24 AM	If Tsarra does make it into 4th Edition, I hope she sheds the guise of Khelben. No offense to those of you who liked Khelben, the idea that Tsarra has to give up herself to essentially allow Khelben further life is very horrifying to me. -Effectivley, Tsarra does not exist anymore. She is Tsarra-Khelben. Mmm, wine. -Wine, and a win. Seriously, that seemed to easy.
Green Elven Vampire 12-29-07, 01:31 AM	It's also silly to be calling other people silly in a post with such dodgey grammar. ;) I just used that Grammar speech in a post yesterday! Are you following me around GD? And I agree, if you're not passionate about something then you don't truly love it.
Stigger 12-29-07, 02:05 AM	Dan's been into grammar for as long as I've known him... kinda freakish really, but its one of his more charmingly amusing traits. :P ;) :D
Old Sage 12-29-07, 02:56 AM	If Tsarra does make it into 4th Edition, I hope she sheds the guise of Khelben.Ultimately, I think it may simply come down to the fact that Tsarra cannot effectively maintain the guise of Khelben beyond the coming months/year. As I noted back on pg. 2 of this thread, Tsarra's going to be facing some rather tough times in the coming months, and the pressures associated with maintaining Khelben's legacy is likely to have some impact on her capacity to faithfully ensure the continuation of the "Khelben guise." She may have to put some serious thought into "lightening her workload." Fortunately, she has some options in this regard:- Firstly, she can turn command of the Moonstars over the Malchor. This would eventually reduce her role as "Khelben" in that area. Secondly, she could step down as Lord of Waterdeep -- given the fact that it is a crime to masquerade as a Lord of Waterdeep. She could give up that "Khelben guise" as well. And finally, she could reduce her time as 'being Khelben' in terms of a presence in his wizard school in Blackstaff Tower. What impact these decisions may have on the world around "Tsarra-disguised-as-Khelben," remains to be seen. It may be that Tsarra will feel that she has no choice. That she sees it as her obligation to continue with the "Khelben guise" regardless of how she personally feels, simply because she's too concerned about what may eventuate should the reality of Khelben's death become public knowledge. In the end, Tsarra's ability to wrestle with the legacy Khelben has left her, will probably be part of the deciding factor in just whether or not Tsarra maintains the "Khelben guise" in 4e. Given the amount of time between 1375 DR and 1385 DR, and the lack of published Realmslore for the period, we may eventually learn a little about how she handles herself in the years to come.
Stigger 12-29-07, 04:02 AM	Presuming she's not "nuked" (such a charming phrase) in the process of 4e's arrival in the Realms...
The_Shaman 12-29-07, 06:14 AM	Actually, didn't Khelben himself take the image of one of his sons? In effect, I think he'd been living in disguise of centuries.
Stigger 12-29-07, 06:31 AM	Think it was only decades actually... was in the 1320's I think that he began that masquerade.
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 06:45 AM	-A very confusing history, he has. I'd expect nothing less from a guy like him, though.
Rauric 12-29-07, 07:44 AM	The fact that people are offended by my calling fictional characters "bimbos" or my comments towards Elminster is amusing. Gothic Dan, do you know why I'm so easy going about 4th edition? Because it's a GAME that's all it is. It's all imagenary, ment to be fun, it's nothing serious. To get mad over something so trife as your favorite imagenary god or person dying is just silly. I agree, but there are a horde of people here who feel likewise. Basically calling them on it can cause a backlash so abort abort!! ;) I am a FR fan since '87 but am not too tied to it that I get bent out of shape. I just like it as a place to play my RPG in. I like Khelben alot and he is the master of MY Moonstars so I think I will keep him in 4E. My players were just becomeing Moonstars and I like Khel's shady, manipulitive side. I wanted the group to be more shades of gray than the Harpers and 3e didn't do much with them. I didn't want to the group to be just another Harper spinoff. I think Rich said they plan on doing more with them in 4E. Perhaps Semm will join them, who knows? I think Semm will be a big player in 4E FR.
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 07:48 AM	Perhaps Semm will join them, who knows? I think Semm will be a big player in 4E FR. -That's a good idea, actually. Having him lead the Moonstar would be interesting, given that Semmemmon is just as good at manipulating and all as Khelben was. -I'd like to see the Moonstars become more "neutral". Thus, we'll have the Harpers, for 'good', the Moonstars, for 'neutrality', and the Zhentarim, for 'evil'.
Rauric 12-29-07, 07:51 AM	-That's a good idea, actually. Having him lead the Moonstar would be interesting, given that Semmemmon is just as good at manipulating and all as Khelben was. -I'd like to see the Moonstars become more "neutral". Thus, we'll have the Harpers, for 'good', the Moonstars, for 'neutrality', and the Zhentarim, for 'evil'. Yep, that is how I was running them. They would "let things go" if it was for the greater good. Sometimes people have to be practical like Khel and not good. Arylin Moonblade served a purpose before she became a full Harper right? I see Moonstars hireing killers to get things done and having no real problems with it. I might have Semm be the face of hte group and Khel be the guy in the background still. He is licking his wounds after all the Spellplague stuff and his "death".
Old Sage 12-29-07, 08:00 AM	Two intriguing tidbits Krash posted over at Candlekeep back in June [bits that were cut from his article in DRAGON #357], suggest some rather interesting possibilities for both Sememmon and Ashemmi in the period after Khelben's demise. For Sememmon:- "Events such as the sacrifice of the Blackstaff have opened his eyes to the choices he could have made that would not have led to him becoming the Lord of Darkhold. Whilst he has many regrets and is a changed man in the truest sense of the word, he is too proud to admit his mistakes and instead hides behind a cold, aloof exterior." And Ashemmi:- "Ashemmi is also considering a return to the Harpers or the Moonstars, although she has kept this secret from Sememmon. She feels that the two of them can only do so much against their enemies without strong allies. The death of Khelben Arunsun has seen them lose their biggest covert ally and she fears that their exclusion from Rhymanthiin (which she agrees with) will lead them to becoming increasingly isolated and vulnerable. She wants to find a haven where she can live with her man in peace and raise a family, and this goal governs much of her thinking."
Rauric 12-29-07, 08:05 AM	They will need allies, especially after the plague. They both have been playing it too dark to get along with the Harpers IMO. They realize dark deeds get quicker, pratical results so it is the Moonstars for them both.
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 08:17 AM	And Ashemmi:- "Ashemmi is also considering a return to the Harpers or the Moonstars, although she has kept this secret from Sememmon. She feels that the two of them can only do so much against their enemies without strong allies. The death of Khelben Arunsun has seen them lose their biggest covert ally and she fears that their exclusion from Rhymanthiin (which she agrees with) will lead them to becoming increasingly isolated and vulnerable. She wants to find a haven where she can live with her man in peace and raise a family, and this goal governs much of her thinking." -Am I imagining something, or didn't some source somewhere say that Ashemmi was originally a Harper, and was "hypnotized" into becoming 'evil'?
GothicDan 12-29-07, 10:19 AM	Dan's been into grammar for as long as I've known him... kinda freakish really, but its one of his more charmingly amusing traits. Most people I meet at first discussion think I'm an English or History or Religion/Philosophy Major. JOKE'S ON THEM! I am.. a.. SCIENTIST! *Boom.*
The_Shaman 12-29-07, 12:18 PM	-I'd like to see the Moonstars become more "neutral". Thus, we'll have the Harpers, for 'good', the Moonstars, for 'neutrality', and the Zhentarim, for 'evil'. I don't know, that sounds a bit like too much pigeonholing if these three groups become just the good guys, the bad guys, and the neutral guys... I'd prefer to differentiate the groups a bit more and make them a bit more grey as well. This is just my idea, but I think the Harpers tend towards CG, but - similarly to how deities sometimes approve clerics of somewhat different alignments - include a fair number of people of other alignments in their ranks. The Moonstars I believe tend towards LN, and the Zhents towards LE, but these have their exceptions as well. Also, each of the groups has different degree of, well, politization - the Moonstars are heavily concerned about what happens to Waterdeep (to the extent that I often wondered if they aren't basically a spy network aiding Khelben in his duty as one of the Lords, kinda like the Waterdhavian CIA ;) ), while the Zhentarim want to establish friendly/puppet governments wherever they wield influence and add to the might of Zhentil Keep. The Harpers, to the best of my knowledge, have the least involvement with local rulers and administration, and seem to often work around them rather than with them. Their moral and ethical viewpoints are just one of the things that define them imo... I could be wrong, but I think as such these groups can be much more interesting.
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 12:29 PM	-I meant in methods, as Rauric said. The Harpers work towards their goals, employing hand selected 'good' individuals. The Zhents work towards their goals, employing hand selected 'evil' individuals. -I'd like to see the Moonstars differentiated from the Harpers some more, by doing "dirty things" to accomplish their goals. For example, let's take a hypothetical situation where the results of a local election need to be changed, so that an evil person doesn't gain power. The Harpers, say, might embarrass said individual in the eye of the public, influencing them so that they don't vote for him. I'd like to see the Moonstars assassinate the guy. -Like Khelben, I want the Moonstars to be more of a "the ends justify the means" organization.
Storm_Silverhand 12-29-07, 04:52 PM	Heya, One the use of the word Bimbo... Rauric, the reason I don't like you or anyone else using such language towards female characters is because I find the use of such derogatory language towards any female (real or fictional) to be unacceptable. I might also add that I find the use of similar derogatory terms towards males unacceptable as well, but I'm only human - I try to temper my language but it doesn't always work... But at least I try. People just don't understand the power of words. On Tsarra and her Khelben-guise... Tsarra has the thoughts and memories of Khelben in her head, but during the course of the novel Blackstaff she was shown to be an individual to herself... She thought she would be separated from him, but that never eventuated and now she has to put herself on hold to be Khelben. I don't like that, it's a terrible fate for anyone. There are also many problems with the whole idea of the guise in the first place. One thing that will stand out like a sore thumb is that Khelben no longer seems romantically involved with Laeral... On Khelben the Elder and Khelben the Younger... I don't think Khelben the Elder changed that much or had to do much beyond taking his nephew's (?) shape. I don't think anyone would question a family member being similar to another family member in personality.
Karsus the Mad 12-29-07, 06:41 PM	Most people I meet at first discussion think I'm an English or History or Religion/Philosophy Major. JOKE'S ON THEM! I am.. a.. SCIENTIST! *Boom.* You misspelled psiontist:rolleyes:
Old Sage 12-29-07, 07:50 PM	One thing that will stand out like a sore thumb is that Khelben no longer seems romantically involved with Laeral...As I see it, she'll have some minimal contact with Blackstaff Tower, if only to claim some of her things sent over to the new Blackstaff Tower in Rhymanthiin. Steven Schend added a bit to this back in Sep. '06:- "If it were up to me, Laeral wouldn't set foot in Blackstaff Tower for the next 5-10 years at the least--the pain's too raw (and as another example, reread how she reacted to his death in Stornanter). But I've learned to never say never.....especially since I don't get to write the Adventures of Laeral and the Blackstaff's Babies."
Kenzuki 12-29-07, 08:12 PM	I didn't mean to offend you Storm, though sometimes the word Bimbo is an accurate way to describe certain people sometimes. I always wondered what was going on with Semmemon, I hope to here more about him. I suppose he'll be dead by the time of 4th edition Realms though unless he can extend his life somehow.
Old Sage 12-29-07, 10:32 PM	Well, let's just reflect a little bit on how Sememmon has developed. His early reputation for battle-fury was due to his lack of fear and recklessness in battle. Sememmon was prepared to get himself killed or have his body shattered if it meant that a Zhent foe or rival was taken down in the process. As such, people soon became wary of facing him in battle knowing that it was likely to be an "all or nothing" proposition. This policy of his youth [for by the time he took control of Darkhold he was known for his battle-fury] gave way to more sophisticated tactics after 1312 DR and he then honed his manipulative and intimidatory skills. Raw displays of power weren't needed very often after that. So, depending on how Sememmon's mindset is treated in future Realmslore, we may indeed be seeing some interesting times ahead for the former Lord of the Darkhold between now and the dawn of 4e FR.
Storm_Silverhand 12-30-07, 02:00 AM	Heya, As I see it, she'll have some minimal contact with Blackstaff Tower, if only to claim some of her things sent over to the new Blackstaff Tower in Rhymanthiin. Yet she and Khelben will be seen to be separated. For a couple that has been inseparable to that point, some will certainly be curious. Steven Schend added a bit to this back in Sep. '06:- "If it were up to me, Laeral wouldn't set foot in Blackstaff Tower for the next 5-10 years at the least--the pain's too raw (and as another example, reread how she reacted to his death in Stornanter). But I've learned to never say never.....especially since I don't get to write the Adventures of Laeral and the Blackstaff's Babies." We might not see it at all. We might end up without Laeral and Khelben's kids. It would be a good bet, anyway.
Stigger 12-30-07, 06:03 AM	I'm thinking that its fairly likely the Arunson family is pretty much going to be relegated to a footnote in history in 4e. Gods knows they might be powerful sorts who might overshadow the PCs one day, and we can't let that happen...
Kenzuki 12-30-07, 06:26 AM	He was a pretty cool figure in the Avatar series, though like you said wreckless. He seemed like a loose cannon to me. What are his levels again?
Lord Karsus 12-30-07, 07:58 AM	-That makes me sad, to see that Steve is saying he won't be writing any more about that.
Storm_Silverhand 12-30-07, 05:32 PM	Heya, He was a pretty cool figure in the Avatar series, though like you said wreckless. He seemed like a loose cannon to me. What are his levels again? Khelben? Wiz 24/Acm 3... At least according to the ELH. He also has the Chosen of Mystra template on top of that, which gives him an extra 4 ECL. Or, do you mean Sememmon? Wiz 17 according to FRCS.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-30-07, 05:52 PM	Mirt, for example, Filfaeril is another - both are well past their 60s - Mirt is probably closer to 100 (anyone able to give me an idea if I'm right?)... He's like 120 or so, and so is Durnan.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-30-07, 05:54 PM	Heya, If Tsarra does make it into 4th Edition, I hope she sheds the guise of Khelben. No offense to those of you who liked Khelben, the idea that Tsarra has to give up herself to essentially allow Khelben further life is very horrifying to me. It horrifies me too. But have you read the novel City of Splendors: A Novel of Waterdeep? If you think you happened to Tsarra is bad, you should check out what happens in the novel I just mentioned.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-30-07, 06:01 PM	I like Khelben alot and he is the master of MY Moonstars so I think I will keep him in 4E. My players were just becomeing Moonstars and I like Khel's shady, manipulitive side. I wanted the group to be more shades of gray than the Harpers and 3e didn't do much with them. I didn't want to the group to be just another Harper spinoff. I think Rich said they plan on doing more with them in 4E. Perhaps Semm will join them, who knows? I think Semm will be a big player in 4E FR. As far as I can tell, Rich (and presumably the whole FR design team) is toying with merging the Moonstars back with the Harpers, as I mentioned before.
Old Sage 12-30-07, 06:24 PM	He's like 120 or so, and so is Durnan.:)Mirt and Durnan are both a trifle OLDER than 120. Thanks, largely, to those slightly-variant Potions of Longevity. :D
The_Shaman 12-30-07, 06:30 PM	Heya, One the use of the word Bimbo. Er, doesn't the word basically mean a thoughtless, airheaded woman who gets by mostly due to her looks? While it certainly can't be used to describe any of the Seven, I don't know what is so bad about it.
Stigger 12-30-07, 06:38 PM	I think its the insulting connotation of it, and negative spin it puts on sexuality that bothers Zandi... I think.
The_Shaman 12-30-07, 08:08 PM	Oh... I just checked the online webster. Weird, I didn't know it could also have the connotation of "tramp" - I had assumed that it just indicated an airhead, usually a good-looking one.
Karsus the Mad 12-30-07, 08:23 PM	Er, doesn't the word basically mean a thoughtless, airheaded woman who gets by mostly due to her looks? While it certainly can't be used to describe any of the Seven, I don't know what is so bad about it. It's the context in which the word is often misused that makes it insulting and negative. That it was used as a derogatory remark to reference a group of individuals that don't fit any of the various definitions of the word is what I think many people find insulting. At least I do anyway. Oh... I just checked the online webster. Weird, I didn't know it could also have the connotation of "tramp" - I had assumed that it just indicated an airhead, usually a good-looking one. Typically it's associated with females, but can also be male oriented or gender-less. But whatever. I've never had issues with using derogative terms if the individual they're aimed at warrants such.
Rauric 12-30-07, 09:24 PM	Khelben was such a complex character I thought. It is a shame he bit it in the books. Not in my game though. After thinking about him my next campaign is definitley use him somehow, probably as a behind the scenes manipulator/Keiser Soze type character. His ruthlessness is great. His cold, dispassionate demeanor was an interesting thing, especially since everything he did was for the greater good I believe. Maybe faking his death was a way to do more than he could before. He doesn't have to worry about his wife or kids being harmed by people who are trying to get to him. Hmmmmmm...
Karsus the Mad 12-30-07, 09:49 PM	At least his passing wasn't due to some misguided fear that he'll somehow swing into gaming sessions and take the spotlight off the players.
Lord Karsus 12-30-07, 11:11 PM	At least his passing wasn't due to some misguided fear that he'll somehow swing into gaming sessions and take the spotlight off the players. -Steve's awesome like that.
Stigger 12-31-07, 01:47 AM	Indeed. Still gonna miss Khelben though.
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 02:05 AM	-Well, to put a spin on things, perhaps Khelben created a clone that he planned to activate, in case he ever died before his intended time. For whatever reason, perhaps he forgot about it, or whomever was supposed to dispose of it was not able to/did not want to. Now, Khelben dies, and his soul heads to Arvandor. His clone, suddenly, awakens, as some kind of pseudointelligent artificial life that believes itself to be Khelben...
Stigger 12-31-07, 02:15 AM	That's a thought I will never willingly entertain as possible.
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 02:17 AM	-Just saying. You want him alive? Bam! He's alive, and dead at the same time, all parties in question are satisfied.
Stigger 12-31-07, 02:19 AM	Khelben as Cat in the Box... that is kind of intriguing now that I think about it a bit more...
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 02:20 AM	-What is a 'Cat in the Box'?
Stigger 12-31-07, 02:22 AM	As in Schroedinger's Cat-in-the-Box principletheorymathingy Dan would probably remember the name of. Uncertainty Principle or something like that maybe.
Karsus the Mad 12-31-07, 05:02 AM	-What is a 'Cat in the Box'? Until you open the tower to observe him, the Blackstaff is both alive and dead simultaneously.
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 07:01 AM	-Whoa, that's some heavy stuff.
GothicDan 12-31-07, 09:45 AM	Schrodinger's cat is a terrible analogy to explain Schrodinger. It's more, "Until we observe him, how do we know if he's dead or alive? And did the observation of him force him into one state or the other?"
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 10:17 AM	-I see. So, this is the argument people cite when boneheads want to argue that, say Mace Windu survived Revenge of the Sith.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-31-07, 10:41 AM	At least his passing wasn't due to some misguided fear that he'll somehow swing into gaming sessions and take the spotlight off the players. How do we know? Steve has said Khelben's death wasn't actually his idea. We are just lucky that the death was covered in a meaningful way, in a novel written by Mr. Schend.
Kenzuki 12-31-07, 10:44 AM	Heya, Khelben? Wiz 24/Acm 3... At least according to the ELH. He also has the Chosen of Mystra template on top of that, which gives him an extra 4 ECL. Or, do you mean Sememmon? Wiz 17 according to FRCS. I was talking about Sememmon, thanks alot. I also personally think that Lockwood's Sememmon is one of the coolest looking pictures of a wizard ever.
Karsus the Mad 12-31-07, 10:50 AM	How do we know? Steve has said Khelben's death wasn't actually his idea. We are just lucky that the death was covered in a meaningful way, in a novel written by Mr. Schend. That's pretty much what I meant. I prolly should have said "At least there was a reasonable story to explain his death."
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-31-07, 10:53 AM	That's pretty much what I meant. I prolly should have said "At least there was a reasonable story to explain his death." On that, I agree.:) And in Khelben's place we got other things, like a certain risen city.
Stigger 12-31-07, 01:14 PM	I'd rather have the Khelben personally...
GreenKnight 12-31-07, 03:23 PM	On that, I agree.:) And in Khelben's place we got other things, like a certain risen city. Are you talking about Myth Drannor? Heh, would you believe that I once tried to reclaim Myth Drannor in one campaign? It was with a character named Aridis Lyonsblood, my very first Paladin character. He was an 11th-Level Human Paladin of Torm by the time that campaign ended (Well, ended for me, at least). I'd made some pretty good inroads into retaking Myth Drannor, too. I'd gotten ahold of the Arm of Valor, garnered some pretty tough allies, the Fighter PC was building a stronghold near Myth Drannor which we'd be able to use as a staging point for an invasion, and was recruiting followers who would form the core of our army. Sadly, the DM decided he wanted to start playing, so I had to pick up the DM reigns. And not being a fan of DM PC's, I wrote poor old Aridis Lyonsblood out of the story, and I never got the chance to reconquer Myth Drannor. :( The party visited Myth Drannor once or twice more afterwards, but nobody was interested in it aside from plundering it. So that was it for that plotline. Ah well. I'd say maybe next time, but with Myth Drannor having been reclaimed, there won't be a next time. Damn elves beat me to it. :D
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 04:28 PM	Are you talking about Myth Drannor? -Nope, wrong recently-returned-ancient city. Try again. ;)
GreenKnight 12-31-07, 05:49 PM	Clearly I'm behind the curve, here. I'll take Ancient Risen Cities for $400, Karsus.
Karsus the Mad 12-31-07, 10:27 PM	"zee zity of zope, Alex, for 400"
GothicDan 12-31-07, 10:29 PM	Hint: The City of Hope.
Karsus the Mad 12-31-07, 11:00 PM	Hope? that's my mums name. I didn't know she had a city.... Does her full name start with an R by chance?
MarkusTay63 01-01-08, 12:37 AM	I thought you guys were talking about Shade, or the new (unamed) Imaskari surface city... Isn't the Star Elf Realm also coming back into FR? You know, it seems more and more of these 'wayward cities' are finding there way back to Faerūn... I guess it's true that the 4e Realms will be "Forgotten no longer".
GreenKnight 01-01-08, 12:47 AM	Hint: The City of Hope. Ah. I haven't read the Blackstaff novel, so there you go. Man, I really wish I could buy ebook versions of Forgotten Realms novels. It'd make it so much easier for me.
Vulpes 01-01-08, 01:34 AM	I'm still waiting for Selunenarra or whatever it's name is (the Netherese city Selune saved, that's basically just Shade inverted) and Myth Adofhaer (that gold elf city that jaunted away at some point) to come back. Not that I necessarily always agree with the "let's bring back every lost or hidden city in Faerun's history!" drive (some of them have worked quite well; I'm a big fan of Deep Imaskar, for instance), but at this point you might as well just bring 'em all back.
Old Sage 01-01-08, 03:39 AM	I would prefer Selūnarra to remain where it is. I think it's entirely more interesting as a *potential* factor, rather than something that has already been used. In fact, I would rather have the conflict between Selūnarra and Shade being something subtle and, perhaps, waged in secret -- carried out by agents travelling back and forth from the Gates of the Moon. There's plenty of roleplaying opportunities, and it also keeps Selūnarra firmly in the Gates of the Moon. "Outofhere"... Hehe. Still makes me laugh. Anyways, Steven's managed to share a few thoughts on the "possible" fate of Adofhaer, over at Candlekeep:- "Off the top of my head, it's the last Siluvanedden city, its mythal sets it into a side-dimension/pocket dimension (but not that of Shade), and it will be chock full of gold elves exclusively. Now, are they those who didn't agree with the corrupt leadership, leaving with lots of lore in hopes for the future? Are they those who left after "the Sixth Crown War" in hopes of revenge later vs. Sharrven? What exactly did they do to the mythal that blipped them out of phase with the Realms and why haven't they been found? I always considered it a time-shift, and they've sent themselves along to the future but won't rematerialize until it's safe. Conditions for its return really depend on who pulled the city out of reality, dunnit?" and:- "Well, if Myth Adofaer/Adofhaor truly time-shifted with its mythal, that's one possible outcome, in having the orc horde invade the city and have them pull themselves out of time again, not feeling too safe. Another option, which I don't think is used often enough, is this: Gates permeate the High Forest (as well as all of Faerun); who say's they all transport people across space? What if they simply tunnel short-cuts through time, throwing people days or weeks or centuries ahead rather than miles? I love the idea of an orc horde and Ellarthion's Crusade rumbling out of the High Forest next Mirtul... Steven"
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 01:02 PM	...or the new (unamed) Imaskari surface city... -The realm that Ususi alluded to either hasn't happened yet, or the idea was trashed (in-game or out of game), as nothing appeared in AGHotR about it. Isn't the Star Elf Realm also coming back into FR? -The Sildeyuir (with the little dots over the e). No, nothing in recent production hinted that (AGHotR and Stardeep).
MarkusTay63 01-01-08, 05:25 PM	Ahhh... in UE it was hinted at that the demi-plane was breaking down, and many Star Elves were returning to Faerūn. -The realm that Ususi alluded to either hasn't happened yet, or the idea was trashed (in-game or out of game), as nothing appeared in AGHotR about it.I have a feeling we will see what became of that in 4e - after all, Mr. Cordell is in charge of the development of that, so it just figures that his novels are set-ups for the new setting. (with the little dots over the e)* You mean this ė ? ;)
Karsus the Mad 01-01-08, 07:24 PM	Ahhh... in UE it was hinted at that the demi-plane was breaking down, and many Star Elves were returning to Faerūn. Yeah. The Last Mythal trilogy pretty much made it clear that the demi-plane was being devoured/destroyed and that the star elves ddn't have all that much time left.
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 08:21 PM	Ahhh... in UE it was hinted at that the demi-plane was breaking down, and many Star Elves were returning to Faerūn. -The Sildėyuir is/was being invaded by the Nilshai, and the creatures were slowly "eating" the Realm. It wasn't being returned to Faerūn or anything, however. Araevin Teshurr enters into the fog that all of that was symbolized by to find the ancient texxts he needed to complete his transformation. As is revealed in Stardeep, the Nilshai seem to be 'invading' due to the fact that the Traitor is kept in Stardeep. Either he summoned them to free him, or his latent...'evilness' inadvertantly summoned them to the demiplane. I have a feeling we will see what became of that in 4e - after all, Mr. Cordell is in charge of the development of that, so it just figures that his novels are set-ups for the new setting. -We shall see, though Stardeep certainly feels a lot more like that than Darkvision. * You mean this ė ? ;) -That's the very one. I have the coding to write the 'ū' (ALT+0251) memorized, but that's all. Yeah. The Last Mythal trilogy pretty much made it clear that the demi-plane was being devoured/destroyed and that the star elves ddn't have all that much time left. -In AGHotR, it is mentioned that Araevin Teshurr, along with Prince Lamruil, I believe, travel to the Sildėyuir to, literally "patch things up".
Karsus the Mad 01-01-08, 08:23 PM	-In AGHotR, it is mentioned that Araevin Teshurr, along with Prince Lamruil, I believe, travel to the Sildėyuir to, literally "patch things up". Ah. I didn't know that. I got GHotR for Christmas, but haven't read it in depth yet.
XHereticX 01-01-08, 08:52 PM	I'm still waiting for Selunenarra or whatever it's name is (the Netherese city Selune saved, that's basically just Shade inverted) and Myth Adofhaer (that gold elf city that jaunted away at some point) to come back. Not that I necessarily always agree with the "let's bring back every lost or hidden city in Faerun's history!" drive (some of them have worked quite well; I'm a big fan of Deep Imaskar, for instance), but at this point you might as well just bring 'em all back. It would be cool but I highly doubt it would happen since they are trying to reduce the amount of epicness in the Realms as of 4e. Well...unless you want the cities returning with its inhabitants half-dead.
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 09:11 PM	Ah. I didn't know that. I got GHotR for Christmas, but haven't read it in depth yet. -Yup. I recommend you do so.
Kenzuki 01-01-08, 09:24 PM	-Yup. I recommend you do so. Does it list the years the novels take place? Or some of them even?
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 10:41 PM	Does it list the years the novels take place? Or some of them even? -It doesn't specifically say. "Novel XYZ takes place", but it will say, "Blah blah blah (event that happens in Novel XYZ) happens".
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-02-08, 02:33 PM	Ah. I haven't read the Blackstaff novel, so there you go. Man, I really wish I could buy ebook versions of Forgotten Realms novels. It'd make it so much easier for me. Check it out, it's really good.:) Indeed, the City of Hope is what I was talking about, and it's also the only "recently risen city" I have any real fondness for.
MarkusTay63 01-02-08, 03:50 PM	-That's the very one. I have the coding to write the 'ū' (ALT+0251) memorized, but that's all.When writing 'Realmsy' stuff, this page (http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm)is my bestest friend. ;)
GreenKnight 01-02-08, 05:18 PM	Check it out, it's really good.:) Indeed, the City of Hope is what I was talking about, and it's also the only "recently risen city" I have any real fondness for. Aw, no love for Myth Drannon? :( ;)
Stigger 01-02-08, 05:21 PM	I'd have tons of love for Myth Drannor were it still the big dungeon it used to be...
MarkusTay63 01-02-08, 05:30 PM	Isn't there another ruined Elven City somewhere nearby? I'm not really all that up to speed on Elven lore, but I could of sworn that there were several settlements in Cormanthor that were abandoned during the retreat. If you want to use The Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set, just use one of these other sites for your adventure.
Stigger 01-02-08, 05:37 PM	Or take my solution and just ignore that whole retaking of Myth Drannor thing...
MarkusTay63 01-02-08, 07:00 PM	I have... Or at least, it all turned out differently, and the Elves LOST. :devil: The retreat never ended IMG either, and although some Elves did try to recapture their lost glory, most continue to sail into the west.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-02-08, 07:54 PM	Aw, no love for Myth Drannon? :( ;) Heh, no I'm not fond of that whole reclamation plot. I liked it better as a distant possibly, NOT a loose end that was tied up in a novel.
Stigger 01-02-08, 07:59 PM	Just seems to me that tying up plothooks like that in novels is going a long way to encouraging that feeling that the PCs are secondary to NPCs... or at least contributing to it fairly heavily.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-02-08, 08:16 PM	Just seems to me that tying up plothooks like that in novels is going a long way to encouraging that feeling that the PCs are secondary to NPCs... or at least contributing to it fairly heavily. I think that's the case.
GreenKnight 01-02-08, 08:16 PM	I'd have tons of love for Myth Drannor were it still the big dungeon it used to be... I liked it like that, too. But you gotta figure, after however many centuries of adventurers running in there to loot the place, that the number of monsters in there must be growing a mite thin...
Vulpes 01-03-08, 12:09 AM	The realm that Ususi alluded to either hasn't happened yet, or the idea was trashed (in-game or out of game), as nothing appeared in AGHotR about it. Ususi said, though, that High Imaskar was going to take a long, long time to come to fruition, since the rebuilding of Deep Imaskar was more pressing and a higher priority to her people. I doubt there was any movement on that in the ten years into the "future" GHotR went. Until then, it's just her and maybe a few guards in the Palace of the Purple Emperor trading with that Durpari family for Celestial Nadir crystal (the restart of the trading of which IS mentioned in GHotR). I agree with MarkusTay63: we'll see what, if anything, comes of it in 4e.
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 12:13 AM	When writing 'Realmsy' stuff, this page (http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm)is my bestest friend. ;) -See, that is useful. Isn't there another ruined Elven City somewhere nearby? -Myth Glaurach, and not anymore.
Vulpes 01-03-08, 12:32 AM	Originally Posted by MarkusTay63 Isn't there another ruined Elven City somewhere nearby? -Myth Glaurach, and not anymore. No, Myth Glaurach's near the High Forest (on the edge of the High Moors?). Kind of a leap from Cormanthor. And it's still there, isn't it, just sort of militarily occupied?
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 12:35 AM	No, Myth Glaurach's near the High Forest (on the edge of the High Moors?). Kind of a leap from Cormanthor. And it's still there, isn't it, just sort of militarily occupied? -Myth Glauroch is the closest major Elven ruin I can think of. -And, yes, it's still there, but it's gone in the "ruins" sense. The Fey'ri and the Elven Crusade both used the ruins as a base of operations, and the latter group began "cleaning the joint up".
Stigger 01-03-08, 01:18 AM	Think that it was referencing the Elven Court actually, looking back over it.
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 01:36 AM	Think that it was referencing the Elven Court actually, looking back over it. -The Elven Court isn't exactly a ruin, in my view.
Stigger 01-03-08, 01:40 AM	Perhaps, but last I looked you had hordes of spiders popping out at you for just walking into the Temple of Corellon (or someone anyway, been years), so its still not exactly the right sort of neighborhood...
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 01:44 AM	-It's Detroit.
Stigger 01-03-08, 01:46 AM	Seems like a perfect place for adventurers to go plunging into really...
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 01:49 AM	-That's what d20 Modern is for.
Stigger 01-03-08, 04:30 AM	Feh, too easy to get arrested or labbed if you waltz into the middle of Detroit hurling fireballs and weilding big swords. Well, presuming the cops are out that day anyway... Besides, who needs guns when we have fun toys like Meteor Swarms in a forest? :D
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 12:12 PM	-Depends...By and far, most d20 Modern campaigns seem to be set in a post-apocalyptic world.
Stigger 01-03-08, 01:41 PM	Which is why I have little to no use for it... I can't stand post-apocalyptic stories for the most part.
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 01:54 PM	-I can't either. I'm currently playing in one (one of my groups's member was supposed to go down to Georgia for job training), and I can barely stay awake.
Karsus the Mad 01-03-08, 02:43 PM	I dunno about post apocalyptic, but a simple current day campaign might be interesting. I rather like the idea of casting spells through computers, cameras, etc. That pretty much gives unlimited range, which can be fun.
Stigger 01-03-08, 02:44 PM	Virtual Adepts FTW!
MarkusTay63 01-03-08, 05:36 PM	I played a game in that setting once, but the rules were very new and by the time we learned them well enough for the game to flow smoothly, most of the players had dropped out. The game was called Aftermath!, and used a system VERY similar to D20, way back in 1981! I guess it was just ahead of it's time. Anyhow, it had the BEST hit location and aiming system I've ever seen in a game, and for that alone I'd reccomend it for anyone enjoying a little realism in combat. Think that it was referencing the Elven Court actually, looking back over it.That, or Semberholme. I just looked it up to find the name - I realize they didn't have Mythals or weren't as large as Myth Drannor in canon, but with a wee bit of fudging you can still use the Ruins box for some good old-fashioned Cormanthor Adventuring. You could even just create a second city anywhere you like, and say that part of it's Mythal was to make folks forget its location after they leave. As the Mythal decayed, it's erractic magics caused most folks to forget about it's existance entirely. Now that Myth Drannor is being resettled, perhaps some old tome will resurface with some info about MD's forgotten 'sister city'? ;) I never let the official timeline get in the way of my games - I stick to it best I can, and 'nudge' stuff around so I can still use the old lore as well.
Stigger 01-03-08, 07:48 PM	Didn't say they had to have a mythal, just that they were ruined elven cities... Elven Court qualified for that I thought, though I'll admit I haven't looked at much on Cormanthyr in a while.
MarkusTay63 01-04-08, 07:39 PM	No, you were quite right. The Elven Court would be perfect. There are plenty of older cities around, but none of them would have had a Mythal. Also, the idea was to keep it within Cormanthor, although the High Forest, Wealdath, and Chondalwood would all make excellent locations to place a ruined Mythal City in. Plenty of places where we can get that kind of action, now that WotC has 'taken back' Cormanthor. Strange, that - I thought they wanted to create more 'empty areas' for their "Points of Light", and yet, they keep bringing back 'fallen' empires. They really need to make up their minds which way they want to go with this world.
herceg 03-01-08, 10:38 AM	Two things. 1) Bimbo: There's a very similar word in hungarian written "bimbó" meaning "bud/sprout" of a flower, yet to be bloom(ing?)/blossom(ing?). It would be a much better word for those fair lasses :) 2) For LK: it is written in 2nd ed "Castles" boxed set that Ashemmi "was a neutral good elven adventurer whose alignment was altered by a cursed item (could be very well "helm of opposite alignment" [as she is NE in this supplement]). The curse was eventually removed, but she chose to remain with her new mentor, Semmemmon." (thing is, in her statistics she is written as a half-elf)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-01-08, 09:59 PM	Two things. 1) Bimbo: There's a very similar word in hungarian written "bimbó" meaning "bud/sprout" of a flower, yet to be bloom(ing?)/blossom(ing?). It would be a much better word for those fair lasses :) Heh, no doubt.:)
halaster53579 03-01-08, 10:12 PM	in "Elminsters Daughter" I liked the red wizard that turned himself into a brick at the end of the book. Vangy kicked ass too :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-01-08, 10:17 PM	in "Elminsters Daughter" I liked the red wizard that turned himself into a brick at the end of the book. Me too! That guy was great. Turning oneself into a brick? Pure genius.
Lord Karsus 03-06-08, 02:02 PM	2) For LK: it is written in 2nd ed "Castles" boxed set that Ashemmi "was a neutral good elven adventurer whose alignment was altered by a cursed item (could be very well "helm of opposite alignment" [as she is NE in this supplement]). The curse was eventually removed, but she chose to remain with her new mentor, Semmemmon." (thing is, in her statistics she is written as a half-elf) -I don't recall asking for the info, but thanks. Truthfully, I don't remember posting any of the stuff I wrote in this thread, so go figure.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-06-08, 06:27 PM	And sometimes I don't remember what I posted right after I post it!:P
Lord Karsus 03-06-08, 06:58 PM	And sometimes I don't remember what I posted right after I post it!:P -What? Huh?...I don't remember what I was going to post. :( :D
herceg 03-07-08, 12:48 AM	-What? Huh?...I don't remember what I was going to post. :( :D Sixteen hundread years of tripartite nonexistence can do that to even the greatest of mages... ;) EDIT: And rest assured, I do not provide answers for questions not asked. (Of course maybe you only "meditated" on the possibility, but hey... I had the info, I shared it :P)
Lord Karsus 03-07-08, 06:25 AM	Sixteen hundread years of tripartite nonexistence can do that to even the greatest of mages... ;) -Yeah, tell me about it. EDIT: And rest assured, I do not provide answers for questions not asked. (Of course maybe you only "meditated" on the possibility, but hey... I had the info, I shared it :P) -Oh, no, I'm not faulting you for anything, or anything like that.
herceg 03-07-08, 06:33 AM	-Yeah, tell me about it. -Oh, no, I'm not faulting you for anything, or anything like that. No worries, and/but thanks :)