Elven law [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Elven law [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Suin Bahhar
08-16-07, 09:14 AM So which institution in an elven settlement handles the law and ordaines verdicts over crimes? A cleric of Correllon? The First Hilt of the bladesingers? An elven high mage? The grand druid of Rillifane? Someone else?
charonsg
08-16-07, 09:38 AM in a small village, i will say the village elders or headman

in a city like evereska or evermeet, i suppose they must have judges
ShadezofDis
08-16-07, 09:58 AM So which institution in an elven settlement handles the law and ordaines verdicts over crimes? A cleric of Correllon? The First Hilt of the bladesingers? An elven high mage? The grand druid of Rillifane? Someone else?

Depends upon the settlement and upon the subrace. I would say that, in general, that it's either decided by the elders of the settlement or by communal law (which would be enforced by everyone, not by a certain group).

There are others who have more knowledge than I do about these things though, and you can check out the elven net book, that might have something about elven law (in general) or about specific law of specific settlements. You can find that here;
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=732165&highlight=elven+netbook

Good luck
MarkHall
08-16-07, 10:18 AM FWIW, I've long seen elves as LN... heavily bound by tradition, and not particularly caring about other races until their problem becomes an elven problem.
Ravenglade
08-16-07, 02:55 PM Elves are generally a CG Monarchy. Clergy can easily be put in charge of law since their society has religion so deeply ingrained. In a wild-elf community, however, it would a chieftan or shaman.

Communities around Faerun will generally answer to the Queen in Evermeet, and may have no locally structured government of their own. Lets take a look at Cormanthor in 1371 while Drow are infesting.

Cormanthor
Capital: Myth Drannor (see text)
Population: 154,223 (drow 47%,
elves 30%, half-elves 10%,
humans 10%, halflings 2%)
Government: None
Religions: Corellon Larethian, Eilistraee,
Mielikki, Mystra, Silvanus, Vhaeraun
Imports: None
Exports: Furs, magic items looted from Myth Drannor, meat
Alignment: All

Obviously they are following religion here more than any official government. In a society as old as this, the crimes often speak for themselves and the punishments will vary but often "work themselves out."
Suin Bahhar
08-16-07, 03:51 PM So they have no townwatch with authority figures? Every elf in the settlement can drag some criminal to the clergy? Are the local El'teal not the enforcers of local rulers or the queens word?
ShadezofDis
08-16-07, 04:02 PM So they have no townwatch with authority figures? Every elf in the settlement can drag some criminal to the clergy? Are the local El'teal not the enforcers of local rulers or the queens word?

It depends.

In some cases there are, in some cases there isn't.

A lot of it depends upon the size of the populous, the subrace in question, the isolation, or lack thereof, of the settlement.

In other words, trying to come up with a "one size fits all" just doesn't work.

If you want some real answers then I'd suggest providing more information. :)
1 ton ghost
08-17-07, 03:15 PM default elven alignment is CG. typically, codified laws may be set in stone give their long life span, but generally, i think alot would be understood as common law and a given especially when maturity is around 100yrs or so. murder, poison, etc.

given CG for the most part, yeah, a tribunal or something, but typically, the punishment fits the crime. ironically, this mentallity is usually more just then sentencing in LN societies.
stealing a loaf of bread in zhentil keep might get your hand severed, but CG elven city would be more sympathetic if your family was starving, though restitution would be made, etc.

most hearings would probably get passed off to most trusted, ie)most leveled wiseman/woman (highest Wis/Int?) in smaller communities.

hearings could take forever too: they live so long and only trance 4 hrs/day, that kind of deliberation could be grueling. of course, some chaotic rulings are simple in that truth can be divined to cut through all the crap/politicking.

RELATED; in Shadowrun they ruled it was a breech of your civil liberties/rights to be mind probed or apply truth detections in court. but that's kind of a LN society i guess.
Suin Bahhar
08-17-07, 03:46 PM As my next campaign will be in Chessenta I'd like to know what happens when several copper elves in the Chondalwood get mysteriously murdered. Who gets send to investigate? I guess all able elves would want to get the murderer. But this will end up disrupting their regular duties. (perfect to let the PC's into the normally thightly closed forrest realm...)
The community of elves has around 500 members. It will be led by Tyriana, a Speaker and fanatical druid who encourages strange wild rituals amongst the fair folk of Chondalwood. This settlement has a senior ranger circle, a shadowy mercenary band of archers and a bladesinger troupe. It also has a handfull of individual wizards.
MarkHall
08-19-07, 01:45 AM RELATED; in Shadowrun they ruled it was a breech of your civil liberties/rights to be mind probed or apply truth detections in court. but that's kind of a LN society i guess.

No, Shadowrun really is a CN society... those with power do whatever they like, not for malicious reasons, but for their own profit.

However, they ruled that mind probes and truth detections were violations of civil liberties because they maintain American and Canadian legal concepts (like the 5th amendment of the American Constitution, which protects against self-incrimination). In D&D, I see no reason why these concepts would be present.
GothicDan
08-19-07, 01:53 AM According to Demihuman Deities, the Clerics of Corellon very rarely ever directly involve themselves in temporal matters. It is theorized that the Warriors and Magi represent the 'ruler' aspects of Corellon.

In any significant Elven settlement I create, I tend to go with: a monarch of sorts typically chosen by a combination of inheritance and merit, a council of elders/noble house heads, a council of high magic, and a council of the Seldarine.
Suin Bahhar
08-28-07, 07:39 AM The chaotic nature of elves can be explored when in court.
So a green elven town of 500 elves would have 5 houses from which a council of somthing like 10 elders would handle verdicts. These would form the jury and the High Speaker Tyriana, advised by the highest level mage and cleric, would be the final word.
Green/copper elves are not known for their benevolence. Would these jury members try to bend laws to get faster or more severe verdicts? Are there (sunelven) tomes with the laws as written by the Seldarine?
I imagine most green elf laws will relate somehow to the sacredness of forrests. So using firewood stripped from live trees is punishable by floggings or (temporary) exile. Do elves even use prisons? Would they rather dispose of a severe criminal by beheading? Or is exile the preferred modus operandi?
MerrikCale
08-28-07, 10:43 PM In any significant Elven settlement I create, I tend to go with: a monarch of sorts typically chosen by a combination of inheritance and merit, a council of elders/noble house heads, a council of high magic, and a council of the Seldarine.

Perhaps not with Wild or Wood elves though
GothicDan
08-29-07, 06:17 AM Well, that largely hinges on one's definition of "significant." By "significant settlement," it would be something with a large city and surrounding holdings at least - at least a city state. Wood Elves haven't gathered in such numbers for a long time - though it does make me wonder just how those ancient Elven kingdoms populated with Wood Elves functioned, from a governance point of view.

I know when I made the major Elven empire for my world, I actually had the "returned King" a Sun Elf who had been raised among reclusive Wood Elven tribes across the continent. :) Huge culture shock.
Suin Bahhar
08-29-07, 09:24 AM I suspect large Green Elf communities consist of much fewer families or houses than other elven settlements. The familiy ties are stronger as travelling with the seasons in grand forrests requires more coöperation. The (usually well hidden) larger settlements would constantly have families leave and go according to their balance with the forrests resources. Even permanent settlements can be abandoned for years as green elves dont rely on material possesions as much as other elves do. This nomadic trait has a siginficant influence on decision making. I guess the main goal is a fast procedure so they can get on with their (pretty harsh) lives as soon as possible. This will make most jurisdiction ad hoc and turned to a swiftly decided and easy solution. Oh, and they don't take prisoners if they will become a burden for free travel.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suin Bahhar 08-16-07, 09:14 AM	So which institution in an elven settlement handles the law and ordaines verdicts over crimes? A cleric of Correllon? The First Hilt of the bladesingers? An elven high mage? The grand druid of Rillifane? Someone else?
charonsg 08-16-07, 09:38 AM	in a small village, i will say the village elders or headman in a city like evereska or evermeet, i suppose they must have judges
ShadezofDis 08-16-07, 09:58 AM	So which institution in an elven settlement handles the law and ordaines verdicts over crimes? A cleric of Correllon? The First Hilt of the bladesingers? An elven high mage? The grand druid of Rillifane? Someone else? Depends upon the settlement and upon the subrace. I would say that, in general, that it's either decided by the elders of the settlement or by communal law (which would be enforced by everyone, not by a certain group). There are others who have more knowledge than I do about these things though, and you can check out the elven net book, that might have something about elven law (in general) or about specific law of specific settlements. You can find that here; http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=732165&highlight=elven+netbook Good luck
MarkHall 08-16-07, 10:18 AM	FWIW, I've long seen elves as LN... heavily bound by tradition, and not particularly caring about other races until their problem becomes an elven problem.
Ravenglade 08-16-07, 02:55 PM	Elves are generally a CG Monarchy. Clergy can easily be put in charge of law since their society has religion so deeply ingrained. In a wild-elf community, however, it would a chieftan or shaman. Communities around Faerun will generally answer to the Queen in Evermeet, and may have no locally structured government of their own. Lets take a look at Cormanthor in 1371 while Drow are infesting. Cormanthor Capital: Myth Drannor (see text) Population: 154,223 (drow 47%, elves 30%, half-elves 10%, humans 10%, halflings 2%) Government: None Religions: Corellon Larethian, Eilistraee, Mielikki, Mystra, Silvanus, Vhaeraun Imports: None Exports: Furs, magic items looted from Myth Drannor, meat Alignment: All Obviously they are following religion here more than any official government. In a society as old as this, the crimes often speak for themselves and the punishments will vary but often "work themselves out."
Suin Bahhar 08-16-07, 03:51 PM	So they have no townwatch with authority figures? Every elf in the settlement can drag some criminal to the clergy? Are the local El'teal not the enforcers of local rulers or the queens word?
ShadezofDis 08-16-07, 04:02 PM	So they have no townwatch with authority figures? Every elf in the settlement can drag some criminal to the clergy? Are the local El'teal not the enforcers of local rulers or the queens word? It depends. In some cases there are, in some cases there isn't. A lot of it depends upon the size of the populous, the subrace in question, the isolation, or lack thereof, of the settlement. In other words, trying to come up with a "one size fits all" just doesn't work. If you want some real answers then I'd suggest providing more information. :)
1 ton ghost 08-17-07, 03:15 PM	default elven alignment is CG. typically, codified laws may be set in stone give their long life span, but generally, i think alot would be understood as common law and a given especially when maturity is around 100yrs or so. murder, poison, etc. given CG for the most part, yeah, a tribunal or something, but typically, the punishment fits the crime. ironically, this mentallity is usually more just then sentencing in LN societies. stealing a loaf of bread in zhentil keep might get your hand severed, but CG elven city would be more sympathetic if your family was starving, though restitution would be made, etc. most hearings would probably get passed off to most trusted, ie)most leveled wiseman/woman (highest Wis/Int?) in smaller communities. hearings could take forever too: they live so long and only trance 4 hrs/day, that kind of deliberation could be grueling. of course, some chaotic rulings are simple in that truth can be divined to cut through all the crap/politicking. RELATED; in Shadowrun they ruled it was a breech of your civil liberties/rights to be mind probed or apply truth detections in court. but that's kind of a LN society i guess.
Suin Bahhar 08-17-07, 03:46 PM	As my next campaign will be in Chessenta I'd like to know what happens when several copper elves in the Chondalwood get mysteriously murdered. Who gets send to investigate? I guess all able elves would want to get the murderer. But this will end up disrupting their regular duties. (perfect to let the PC's into the normally thightly closed forrest realm...) The community of elves has around 500 members. It will be led by Tyriana, a Speaker and fanatical druid who encourages strange wild rituals amongst the fair folk of Chondalwood. This settlement has a senior ranger circle, a shadowy mercenary band of archers and a bladesinger troupe. It also has a handfull of individual wizards.
MarkHall 08-19-07, 01:45 AM	RELATED; in Shadowrun they ruled it was a breech of your civil liberties/rights to be mind probed or apply truth detections in court. but that's kind of a LN society i guess. No, Shadowrun really is a CN society... those with power do whatever they like, not for malicious reasons, but for their own profit. However, they ruled that mind probes and truth detections were violations of civil liberties because they maintain American and Canadian legal concepts (like the 5th amendment of the American Constitution, which protects against self-incrimination). In D&D, I see no reason why these concepts would be present.
GothicDan 08-19-07, 01:53 AM	According to Demihuman Deities, the Clerics of Corellon very rarely ever directly involve themselves in temporal matters. It is theorized that the Warriors and Magi represent the 'ruler' aspects of Corellon. In any significant Elven settlement I create, I tend to go with: a monarch of sorts typically chosen by a combination of inheritance and merit, a council of elders/noble house heads, a council of high magic, and a council of the Seldarine.
Suin Bahhar 08-28-07, 07:39 AM	The chaotic nature of elves can be explored when in court. So a green elven town of 500 elves would have 5 houses from which a council of somthing like 10 elders would handle verdicts. These would form the jury and the High Speaker Tyriana, advised by the highest level mage and cleric, would be the final word. Green/copper elves are not known for their benevolence. Would these jury members try to bend laws to get faster or more severe verdicts? Are there (sunelven) tomes with the laws as written by the Seldarine? I imagine most green elf laws will relate somehow to the sacredness of forrests. So using firewood stripped from live trees is punishable by floggings or (temporary) exile. Do elves even use prisons? Would they rather dispose of a severe criminal by beheading? Or is exile the preferred modus operandi?
MerrikCale 08-28-07, 10:43 PM	In any significant Elven settlement I create, I tend to go with: a monarch of sorts typically chosen by a combination of inheritance and merit, a council of elders/noble house heads, a council of high magic, and a council of the Seldarine. Perhaps not with Wild or Wood elves though
GothicDan 08-29-07, 06:17 AM	Well, that largely hinges on one's definition of "significant." By "significant settlement," it would be something with a large city and surrounding holdings at least - at least a city state. Wood Elves haven't gathered in such numbers for a long time - though it does make me wonder just how those ancient Elven kingdoms populated with Wood Elves functioned, from a governance point of view. I know when I made the major Elven empire for my world, I actually had the "returned King" a Sun Elf who had been raised among reclusive Wood Elven tribes across the continent. :) Huge culture shock.
Suin Bahhar 08-29-07, 09:24 AM	I suspect large Green Elf communities consist of much fewer families or houses than other elven settlements. The familiy ties are stronger as travelling with the seasons in grand forrests requires more coöperation. The (usually well hidden) larger settlements would constantly have families leave and go according to their balance with the forrests resources. Even permanent settlements can be abandoned for years as green elves dont rely on material possesions as much as other elves do. This nomadic trait has a siginficant influence on decision making. I guess the main goal is a fast procedure so they can get on with their (pretty harsh) lives as soon as possible. This will make most jurisdiction ad hoc and turned to a swiftly decided and easy solution. Oh, and they don't take prisoners if they will become a burden for free travel.