Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roman 01-19-08, 04:15 AM	I have just began playing in my first Forgotten Realms PnP game, though have played some CRPGs set in FR before: Baldur's Gate 2 and its expansion, as well as NWN 2 and its expansion. We are a party of three at level 5: Quelterian: Sun Elf Wizard (myself) Thaji: Wood Elf Druid Markas: Human Ranger I have three questions: 1) I don't know all that much about Forgotten Realms, but the DM knows a lot and she tells me that Sun Elves are very arrogant and I might want to play up this angle. Quelterian has, therefore, exhibited some arrogance thus far, but I want to be careful, since it is possible that too much arrogance could get on the nerves of other players and I don't want to decrease their enjoyment of the game. For the moment, I have tried to act out the arrogance, when I think it is funny and act mostly normally otherwise. I am conjecturing that other players won't mind arrogance as much when it manifests in funny ways rather than when it is condescending. Still, do you have any advice on the matter? 2) Do you have any other advice with respect to roleplaying Sun Elves. I don't really know all that much about them or their personality. I was told that they are a very appropriate choice for wizards and love magic, hence my choice of the race. I play up the love magic angle too and try to lead the party anywhere where there might be magical lore to be learned. 3) Given our party composition, do you have any special mechanical advice that I should bear in mind? I am taking and memorizing for the day a lot of utility spells (knock, alter self, detect thoughts, etc.) to compensate for the lack of a rogue in our party and also some buff spells (such as haste). I do have some attack spells too (I have usually have one fireball and two magic missile spells memorized just in case).
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 04:57 AM	-It's not that Sun Elves are arrogant. They are better than N'Tel'Quessir, and most other Tel'Quessir. ;) -As for tips, I'd recommend sprinking Elven words into the things you say. I'll recommend going to Candlekeep, and downloading the Elven Dictionary PDF compiled by yours truly. Races of Faerūn also goes into some detail as to what Sun Elves are like, as well as the 2e sourcebook Elves of Evermeet, and the novel Evermeet: Island of the Elves. Elves of Faerūn also has articles on all of the little intracasies of Sun Elven life, such as their beliefs, cooking styles, etc...
Roman 01-19-08, 11:43 AM	-It's not that Sun Elves are arrogant. They are better than N'Tel'Quessir, and most other Tel'Quessir. ;) Heh, Quelterian would agree with you. ;) -As for tips, I'd recommend sprinking Elven words into the things you say. I'll recommend going to Candlekeep, and downloading the Elven Dictionary PDF compiled by yours truly. Thank, I will give the dictionary a peek. Races of Faerūn also goes into some detail as to what Sun Elves are like, as well as the 2e sourcebook Elves of Evermeet, and the novel Evermeet: Island of the Elves. Elves of Faerūn also has articles on all of the little intracasies of Sun Elven life, such as their beliefs, cooking styles, etc... Unfortunately, I don't have regular access to the Forgotten Realms books. Is there anything short I can be told about the Sun Elves 'just like that'?
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 12:12 PM	-Elves of Evermeet: I am sorry to say that the Gold elves at first seemed to me a dour and serious lot. They rarely express emotion to others or in public situations. I am informed that with family or friends, however, and in particularly private settings, they can express a range of emotions well beyond those of an ordinary human. Gold elves believe themselves to be the chosen defenders of elven culture and tradition, selected specifically for the task by Corellon Larethian himself. They take this role very seriously, throwing themselves into their chosen tasks with verve and enthusiasm. Gold elf artisans are methodical, careful individuals who will labor for years on relatively simple items such as brooches or rings. Armorers craft each weapon or piece of armor with painstaking precision. Warriors train endlessly with single-minded devotion. Clerics study the words of the gods and pray constantly for guidance. The Gold elves are easily the most arrogant of the subraces, because of an inbred belief that they are the chosen elven defenders. There is also an undercurrent of belief (rarely spoken aloud) that they are the only 'real' elves, and that the other subraces have somehow turned away from true elven society. This prejudice is often well hidden, but it is there nonetheless. As the long-lived elves follow many different paths during their lifespan, the average Gold elf will be a multi-talented individual, having given the full measure of devotion to each one of his or her chosen paths. This willful devotion takes time, and Gold elves will not have as many different skills or professions as their Silver elf cousins. This perhaps is the most significant difference between humans and Gold elves. More than any of the other Tel'Quessir subraces, the Gold elves' longevity has changed their outlook and their very means of thinking. Patience and thoughtfulness dominate every aspect of the Gold elves' outlook. Actions are rarely taken without considerable thought, discussion, and consideration, and they never hurry. The only exception to this is in combat, when quick action is required. The rest of the time, the Ar-Tel'Quessir are slow and methodical, patient and endlessly thoughtful, in stark contrast to relatively quick-acting, short-lived humans. Gold elves feel affection toward their Silver elf brethren, but this is often couched in somewhat patronizing terms, which annoys the Teu-Tel'Quessir. Feeling that their Silver cousins are flighty, chaotic, and irreverent, Gold elves often strive to return them to the proper path with stern lectures and fatherly advice. For their part, the Silver elves laugh and ignore such treatment. The Gold elves admire the Green elves of the forests, feeling that they embody the true primitive spirit of their elven ancestors. Relations between the two groups are good, but the Green elves' reclusive nature makes direct contact relatively rare. I was privileged to attend a celebration of Faerieluck on Evermeet, in which I saw the normally-reserved Gold elves frolicking and cavorting with their Green elf cousins in a manner that even the most free-spirited Silver elf would have found shocking. Gold elves' prejudice toward humans is quite severe. It is much more obvious than that of the relatively friendly Silver elves. Many Gold elves who now live on Evermeet felt the weight of human hatred and persecution directly, and so may be excused for their dislike of humans. Even after my adoption as a Sha'Quessir, I received many black looks from Gold elves, and was sometimes treated with disdain and hostility. Most Gold elves seem to bear something of a chip on their shoulder, and it may not entirely be as a result of their treatment at the hands of humans.
The_Shaman 01-19-08, 12:55 PM	They may not be arrogant, but they are usually quite proud. The difference, as LK said, is that arrogance is not based on real superiority. The best among the gold elves are those that try real hard to achieve that superiority - and maintain it. They aren't my favourite elven race, not by a long shot, but their intensity is unmatched, and their wizards are a wonder to behold. The same feeling of innate superiority that drives their ego motivates them to truly devote themselvels to their professions, and their collection of spell lore is practically unmatched. There is no arrogance in knowing you are the best, after all - and if you know you're not, then you must become so. Corellon has put that burden on your shoulders, after all. So, any ideas for a build? I've thought about doing a gold elf Loremaster at some point; I think it ties very well with their overall inclinations.
Roman 01-19-08, 02:40 PM	Thank you Lord Karsus and The Shaman! That was indeed helpful. May I perchance ask another related question? I still do not have a familiar. Are there any animals that can be chosen as familiars and are especially liked by the Gold Elves or are otherwise particularly appropriate for them?
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 02:50 PM	Thank you Lord Karsus and The Shaman! That was indeed helpful. May I perchance ask another related question? I still do not have a familiar. Are there any animals that can be chosen as familiars and are especially liked by the Gold Elves or are otherwise particularly appropriate for them? -Elves of Faerūn: We Sun Elves do not really keep pets. I keep a pair of songbirds in my manor, because I enjoy their songs, but asides for them, I have no other pets. We welcome any creatures who make their homes, lairs and dens near out homes, but we do not go out of our way to train them, or befriend them. Perhaps this is because we have come to rely on our magic to protect our lands and our people more than the natural creatures who share the land with us. In other words, we Ar’Tel’Quessir are more likely to summon powerful Elementals, or benign Outsiders rather than to rely on good-hearted beasts and woodland creatures. Sun Elves, unlike most other Elves, are keen riders. We enjoy equestrian horse riding, and training our steeds. Of the course of the centuries, we have also developed special relationships with winged creatures, including pegasi and Giant Eagles. Many of my brethren have taken to the sky on winged mounts such as these.
Roman 01-19-08, 03:46 PM	Thanks for that! It seems that by not picking a familiar I actually acted in the spirit of the Sun Elves. From the above, it seems as if picking up an Improved Familiar feat and taking an elemental or something similarly esoteric would be the most appropriate. What do you think?
Alkasyn 01-19-08, 04:21 PM	Thanks for that! It seems that by not picking a familiar I actually acted in the spirit of the Sun Elves. From the above, it seems as if picking up an Improved Familiar feat and taking an elemental or something similarly esoteric would be the most appropriate. What do you think? It would definitely tie well with how the Sun Elves act. Good idea.
The_Shaman 01-19-08, 05:25 PM	I think animal familiars could work, to be honest. It would be less typical than for moon elven mages, but it could work just as well. Ideally, see if you can get that hummingbird familiar that was detailed in Dragon and the RotW substitution level. An initiative boost is always useful. BTW, if you're into improved familiar, CScoundrel allows you to take a mephit familiar. IMO, that can be a very interesting idea - mephits are quite handy, possibly even more useful than elementals. Me, I like pseudodragons most, but they seem a bit too free-spirited for most gold elven wizards. Still... ever since I saw that Arcanum poster I've thought that a pseudodragon on your shoulder is like a badassness badge for a wizard ;) .
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-19-08, 08:48 PM	I agree in seeing gold elves as "proud" rather than "arrogant". Also, gold elves don't have to be annoyingly haughty (see Wyn Ashgrove from the novel Elfsong). So, don't feel you "have" to play up the haughtiness angle. And I also agree that it'd be good not to go too far with it, depending on what the other players are like. Ideally, everyone would just accept the most hardcore in-character nastiness (whether it's about manners or actions) as "acting" and nothing personal, but not everyone is good at doing that. So, making your character's arrogance more humorous might be a good idea.
Lord Karsus 01-20-08, 03:27 AM	Ideally, everyone would just accept the most hardcore in-character nastiness (whether it's about manners or actions) as "acting" and nothing personal, but not everyone is good at doing that. So, making your character's arrogance more humorous might be a good idea. -I somehow developed a reputation as a prick of a gamer by running a character that did not automatically trust the other PCs when we first met (In a prison dungeon!). Mind you, most of the characters that I've played are either LG or LN, so go figure.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-20-08, 06:45 PM	-I somehow developed a reputation as a prick of a gamer by running a character that did not automatically trust the other PCs when we first met (In a prison dungeon!). Hmm, personally I wouldn't consider that to be a sign of flawed character--in fact, were I in that situation I probably wouldn't immediately trust a bunch of total strangers either. But as I said, everyone is different.:)
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 03:26 AM	Hmm, personally I wouldn't consider that to be a sign of flawed character--in fact, were I in that situation I probably wouldn't immediately trust a bunch of total strangers either. -The stupid people I play D&D with are into 95% 'Hack-and-Slash', and the 'Hi! You are a PC, so you are completely trustworthy" mentality. :rolleyes:
The_Shaman 01-21-08, 04:27 AM	Heh, maybe they'll grow out of it ;)
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 04:54 AM	Heh, maybe they'll grow out of it ;) -Being as most of them are well into their 30s, and those who aren't are either basely 30, I doubt it.
Alediran 01-21-08, 01:03 PM	Thanks for that! It seems that by not picking a familiar I actually acted in the spirit of the Sun Elves. From the above, it seems as if picking up an Improved Familiar feat and taking an elemental or something similarly esoteric would be the most appropriate. What do you think? My character Alediran Tir'ent, who is a Sun Elf Wizard/Elemental Savant (air) has a Small Air Elemental as Familiar. In true Sun Elf thinking, he is a specialist of the Air element, and is actually on the verge of becoming more than he is (adding elemental essence to his body and spirit). He is also a follower of Aerdrie Faenya (Elven Godess of Air and Birds) LK: You should have played in the first chapter of my campaign. The Avariel cleric and the Moon Elf rogue/bard were always fighting (luckly we don't have the Avariel with us anymore, he'll be a terrible hindrance in the Underdark when quick thinking is better than arguing).
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 01:34 PM	LK: You should have played in the first chapter of my campaign. The Avariel cleric and the Moon Elf rogue/bard were always fighting (luckly we don't have the Avariel with us anymore, he'll be a terrible hindrance in the Underdark when quick thinking is better than arguing). -I don't know...Arguing is one thing, but...This is a little tangent, but so be it: -I've had a played (in a Star Wars) campaign detonate a thermal detonator, killing his character, my two character, and a third player's character on the bridge of a Seperatist space vessel. Long story short, the player was playing the same type of character he always plays (CN [with evil tendencies, if you ask me] Rogue-type loner/soldier powergaming character), and when my Jedi Consular was unconscious and bleeding to death, he shot him in the head, putting him out of his mysery, claiming it was better to die than be captured/suffer (suffice to say, the two characters [pacifist versus sociopath] had major differences in the past, which once culminated in my Jedi sundering his blaster rifle, so that he did not execute a prisoner we had captured). My other character, who was a Jedi posing as a Space Pirate in the Outer Rim, to infiltrate the Seperatist movement, blew his cover, ignited his Lightsaber, and attacked him. The third player, a decomissioned ARC trooper, realized I was a Jedi, and joined me, as I was a 'General'. After being attacked, and having a chunk of his Vitality/HP taken, he pulled out a thermal detonator and activated it. It blew up instantly, killing everyone, and causing the ship to crash as well.
Alediran 01-21-08, 01:36 PM	Well, not like that, the Rogue is CN (now CG) and the cleric was a rare CG (tending to neutral) that was extremly serious (he made Alediran appear as too fun-loving XD)
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 01:48 PM	Well, not like that... -Exxxactly. ;) -That one is a story for the ages, at least in my mind.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-21-08, 06:31 PM	-The stupid people I play D&D with are into 95% 'Hack-and-Slash', and the 'Hi! You are a PC, so you are completely trustworthy" mentality. :rolleyes: I see. That explains it...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-21-08, 06:33 PM	- when my Jedi Consular was unconscious and bleeding to death, he shot him in the head, putting him out of his mysery, claiming it was better to die than be captured/suffer... What a jerk.:rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 01-22-08, 06:17 AM	I see. That explains it... -Indeed... What a jerk.:rolleyes: -Should it make things worse that the player in question is my Step-Father? :embarrass ;)
Khaelieth 01-22-08, 07:27 AM	Should it make things worse that the player in question is my Step-Father? :embarrass ;) Tbh, he knew he was dead meat. I would've done the same, but I wouldn't have shot a Jedi to start with. Sounds like Belkar from OOTS.
Lord Karsus 01-22-08, 07:46 AM	Tbh, he knew he was dead meat. I would've done the same, but I wouldn't have shot a Jedi to start with. Sounds like Belkar from OOTS. -My Jedi Consular was dead meat, yes, but the rest of the party wasn't. We were on a robot ship, and had deactivated all of the robots (as far as we knew), and had just killed the mercenaries that were the only living beings (as far as we knew) on the vessel. -And, what's OOTS?
Alediran 01-22-08, 01:01 PM	Order of the Stick: www.giantitp.com
The_Shaman 01-22-08, 01:08 PM	-And, what's OOTS? Lord Karsus, that's the third last question I expected to hear (well, see) from you. Just out of curiosity, you know who Rich Burlew is, right?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-22-08, 01:22 PM	- -Should it make things worse that the player in question is my Step-Father? :embarrass ;) :eek: !!!!!!!!!!! SHOCKHORROR!
Lord Karsus 01-22-08, 01:29 PM	Order of the Stick: www.giantitp.com -Ah, I see. Lord Karsus, that's the third last question I expected to hear (well, see) from you. Just out of curiosity, you know who Rich Burlew is, right? -According to Wikipedia, Rich Burlew, (born September 1, 1974) is an author, game designer, and graphic designer best known for his webcomic The Order of the Stick. He has also written several works for Wizards of the Coast's Dungeons and Dragons game. He owns and operates Giant in the Playground, a small press publishing company formed to publish his comic work and named after his frequent forum screen name. -Might I inquire what the other questions you never expected to hear? :eek: !!!!!!!!!!! SHOCKHORROR! -I guess it does, then. :embarrass
The_Shaman 01-22-08, 03:12 PM	According to Wikipedia, Rich Burlew, (born September 1, 1974) is an author, game designer, and graphic designer best known for his webcomic The Order of the Stick. He has also written several works for Wizards of the Coast's Dungeons and Dragons game. He owns and operates Giant in the Playground, a small press publishing company formed to publish his comic work and named after his frequent forum screen name. Bravo ;) It's just that I have grown accustomed to nearly everyone here reading OotS, my bad. It is a fun comic, particularly for D&D afficionados. Apart from that, he co-authored Dungeonscape and almost became the author of the new D&D setting (his project was second to Eberron). I just expected you to have heard of him or the comic, really. -Might I inquire what the other questions you never expected to hear? Something like "The Forgotten what?", for example :P .
Lord Karsus 01-22-08, 04:08 PM	I just expected you to have heard of him or the comic, really. -I've seen a comic strip here and there, now that I know what it is, but... Something like "The Forgotten what?", for example :P . -There's a lot of things that can be forgotten. A bad movie, an evil temple (there seems to be a lot of those)...
Diffan 01-26-08, 07:37 AM	Roman, I'm curious as to which prestige classes your looking into. The archmage is probably a favorite of Sun elf wizards which many go into being High Elven Mages from Races of Faerun. Also, there only being three characters in your party, you might want to consider the Reserve feats featured in Complete Mage. They give you a slew of abilities for keeping certain spells of various levels in reserve to use said ability all the time. It helps keep wizards going a lot longer than relying solely on your spells. Also, the prestige class War Weaver is one of my newer favorites. It allows you to cast your buff spells on your whole party rather than one at a time and all at once if so desired. That class is in the Heroes of Battle. Hope some of this helped, and if you need more info on something, just ask. -Diffan
Roman 01-27-08, 04:53 AM	Thanks for all the advice. We just played another session on Friday and entered the Underdark. It seems we will be staying down there for a while and will make repeated forays underground even after we leave. We are currently engaged in an uncomfortable situation with some apparently 'good drow' who worship some other goddess than Lolth (spelling) - I believe it was something like Elistraee (spelling?). In any case, if they do become our allies, I will consider obtaining a bat familiar, as a mark of their cultural influence, but for now my character still remains suspicious of them.
Roman 01-27-08, 05:01 AM	Roman, I'm curious as to which prestige classes your looking into. The archmage is probably a favorite of Sun elf wizards which many go into being High Elven Mages from Races of Faerun. Also, there only being three characters in your party, you might want to consider the Reserve feats featured in Complete Mage. They give you a slew of abilities for keeping certain spells of various levels in reserve to use said ability all the time. It helps keep wizards going a lot longer than relying solely on your spells. Also, the prestige class War Weaver is one of my newer favorites. It allows you to cast your buff spells on your whole party rather than one at a time and all at once if so desired. That class is in the Heroes of Battle. Hope some of this helped, and if you need more info on something, just ask. -Diffan I did not really have any specific prestige classes in mind - I was going to see what comes along and decide on that basis. I do like the Archmage and might eventually go for it, but since we are 5th level (close to 6th level) it will take a while before that becomes an option. As a matter of interest, the plurality (but not the majority) of my spells is from the transmutation school. War weaver sounds great and is a class I was not aware of. I use buff spells on the ranger and the druid rather often, so being able to cast them on all of us simultaneously would be great. What are the downsides though? I will have to enquire with my DM if she is accepting the use of non-FR specific splatbooks and if so which ones. I think she will almost certainly use all of them, so it will most likely not be an issue, but I need to ask nonetheless.
Diffan 01-28-08, 07:51 AM	I did not really have any specific prestige classes in mind - I was going to see what comes along and decide on that basis. I do like the Archmage and might eventually go for it, but since we are 5th level (close to 6th level) it will take a while before that becomes an option. As a matter of interest, the plurality (but not the majority) of my spells is from the transmutation school. War weaver sounds great and is a class I was not aware of. I use buff spells on the ranger and the druid rather often, so being able to cast them on all of us simultaneously would be great. What are the downsides though? I will have to enquire with my DM if she is accepting the use of non-FR specific splatbooks and if so which ones. I think she will almost certainly use all of them, so it will most likely not be an issue, but I need to ask nonetheless. True, DM approval is always a must 1st and foremost. The War Weaver's only downside is that you lose 1 spell-casting level with the first level of the class. It stinks, but the benefits are rather worth it. The prerequisites aren't that hard to get into the class either. The spells your allowed to cast into the weave must have no saving throw or saving throw (harmless) and can't have a range of personal. Spells like Bulls Strength, Stone Skin, Polymorph are all favorites of mine (espically Polymorph, *poof* everyone's now a Dragon :)).
Faraer 02-06-08, 06:14 AM	First, read the Elven Mindset chapter of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves. Too many sources from the mid-90s took the racial supremacist aspect of gold elven culture and distorted it past recognition as a substitute for getting to grips with them. I wouldn't do the same.