Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ExtinctionBeta 08-23-07, 07:32 PM	I've noticed that no matter what the "good guys" always win. Is there someway that the authors of FR series would have characters interact with one another if thier homeland is in danger? I just don't like the idea of let's say, an entire continent is in danger, and of all these heros they would not interfere. Only for the sake of not intervening in another characters territory. Hypothectical question: So drizzt would never go and fight the shade enclave when they would have the intent of controling the world because Paul S Kemp and Rs Salvatore are two differnt authors yet they are telling tales of the same world and possibly time period? Ok so what's the point of being in the same world if they will never interact? I know I sound picky but perhaps the FR writers should put this into thought. Sigh..I know I will get bashed by little drow elf fan boys.
GothicDan 08-23-07, 07:53 PM	You do realize your first sentence has nothing to do with the rest of your post, regardless of how inaccurate or misguided I feel the entirety of the post is.... The vast majority of characters in Faerun have no idea of what's going on in the rest of it. Only the most tightly-connected magical and political figures are in any way informed about and capable of affecting distant areas.
MarkusTay63 08-23-07, 08:00 PM	What you are describing is the difference between Marvel comics and DC comics in the seventies. In DC, the Flash would face an alien invasion all by himself, even though in another comic he was part of the Justice League. With Marvel, you would be reading Spiderman, and you would see Daredevil swinging by in the background. Then the Torch would land on the rooftop and chat with Spidey. Thats why as I got older, I moved from DC to Marvel, because the world felt more real to me. All of the main players knew each other, or at least knew of each other. It's kinda nice when Spidey gets into a fight with the hulk, and Captain America and Wolverine show up to help. It just adds a whole 'nother level of 'coolness'. :cool: In a real world, one character's actions should affect what is going on with others. Having each auther's characters in their own seperate 'microcosm' gives the Realms a fake feel, IMHO. We can never see Liriel and Drizzt meet. :(
Eli_the_Tanner 08-23-07, 09:19 PM	Although there is a degree of cross-over it's definatly not to the amount it should be. I'm curious, I've noticed ExtinctionBeta that you have started a number of threads on almost exactly the same topic. Is there a reason why you decided to start another one?
GothicDan 08-23-07, 09:31 PM	In many novels, I've noticed a decent amount of cross-over given the areas and NPCs involved - Alustriel has shown up along with Drizzt, Khelben in the Archwizard trilogy, Amlaruil in the Last Mythal, the Simbul, Srinshee, and Halaster in El in Hell... I'm not sure what you guys are talking about, here.
1 ton ghost 08-24-07, 12:08 PM	too many cooks spoil the soup. artists, writers particularly aren't want to share or necessarilly change their vision to suit someone else's artistic license. this is why i would rather see more "low lvl" action in the novels. it is infinetly more realistic for one and it doesn't step on many ppls' toes. creative process at WotC must suck. i mean, you give 'em your pitch and the feedback can totally kill your concept cuz' someone's character somewhere can/would take offense, and bla bla bla. cross over all you want, it still is usually 1 author's vision and i hate it when they make these incredibly epic assumptions or plots that totally change the paradigm or flavor as a whole of FR. low lvl books read better anyway given our own vantage. we can identify easier given our own "comparitive" levels so to speak; we're all mostly 1st, 2nd lvl experts given our educations, etc. just pick and choose. if you like what a novel brings to your game table, so be it. i mean, it's not like you have time/$ to get/read them all.
ExtinctionBeta 08-24-07, 12:41 PM	Although there is a degree of cross-over it's definatly not to the amount it should be. I'm curious, I've noticed ExtinctionBeta that you have started a number of threads on almost exactly the same topic. Is there a reason why you decided to start another one? Ok why do you have to be a dick? Either answer my question or please don't post. And to answer yours: Because I was unsatifyed by the last topic answers that I recieved. I just find Forgotten Realms series a contridiction in it self. Just let the authors say it's in a differnt time period or give them their own world to write in if they will never interact with one another. What's the point? Honestly, the dragonlance novels I do not enjoy as much but at least they comprimise to the meeting of other characters to a extent.
MarkusTay63 08-24-07, 01:24 PM	In many novels, I've noticed a decent amount of cross-over given the areas and NPCs involved - Alustriel has shown up along with Drizzt, Khelben in the Archwizard trilogy, Amlaruil in the Last Mythal, the Simbul, Srinshee, and Halaster in El in Hell... I'm not sure what you guys are talking about, here.Ed's character's don't count - everyone uses THEM. I'd like to know who wrote the novel with Drizzt in it, because RAS has a 'hands off' policy.
Aldareth 08-24-07, 01:27 PM	as if drizzt is a charakter of importance in the realms...
Eli_the_Tanner 08-24-07, 02:07 PM	Ok why do you have to be a dick? I think that's abit uncalled for. I don't think I have said anything inappropiate. (Someone please point it out if this is not the case and I will seriously review my posting habits) Either answer my question or please don't post. And to answer yours: Because I was unsatifyed by the last topic answers that I recieved. I just find Forgotten Realms series a contridiction in it self. Just let the authors say it's in a differnt time period or give them their own world to write in if they will never interact with one another. What's the point? Honestly, the dragonlance novels I do not enjoy as much but at least they comprimise to the meeting of other characters to a extent. I thought I did address the point and I even agreed with you. The points you are trying to raise are valid and welcome but reposting threads on the same topic will likely yield the same answers as the ones before. However it appears (to me) that your interest in this particular subject is more than a passing curiosity and you are clearly expecting an answer to it. Any answers you will find here will come from listening to the discussion on the matter between your fellow board members and coming to your own conclusion. By the way I apoligise if I have offended you in someway but it certainly was not my intention. I was honestly curious about your interest in this matter and merely wished to find the heart of your issue.:) I'd like to know who wrote the novel with Drizzt in it, because RAS has a 'hands off' policy. I think GothicDan was referring to the instances in RAS's books where Alustriel met Drizzt.
ExtinctionBeta 08-24-07, 02:19 PM	No, it's not your fault. I was upset because I feel insignificant and there would be no way that any of the forgotten realms series writters would take the time to hear out one persons oppinon. I am also upset because everytime I look at other topics/post I can't even reply because It's usually about some RPG game or somthing that I have no clue about at all. I enjoy forgotten realms but the only thing I have any knowlage on is the books. Like alot of times when I'm reading a FR book, I imagine what would happen if another hero from a differnt book were to be there too at that setting. A battle perhaps? Or an ally too. But I have a lost dream I guess. And for the record I am the one who needs to apologise.
MarkusTay63 08-24-07, 02:30 PM	Very cool. :cool: Yeah, there are plenty of team-ups we would like to see, but aside from Ed's charcters, which have all become "Realms characters", the other writers don't share... much. Then again, after reading WotSQ, I think maybe it's better if only one author handles a single character. All of the Drow in that series came out looking schitzophrenic(sp?).
Eli_the_Tanner 08-24-07, 02:44 PM	It's Okay ExtintionBeta, I can understand what your feeling. Some of the people on these boards have such indepth knowledge on the RPG rules and the lore that it can feel like you have nothing to contribute. I think many of us would love to see more collabaration between characters and authours, I know I would. Jut like markus said earlier there is a definite sense of authours writing within their own microcosm, compeletly unattached to the world around them. Even some of the RSE's(Realms-shaking events) seem to go comletely unnoticed by other authours - Look at the events of the DragonRage, many seemed to just ignore it's effect on the world. That said there are some good collabarations by authours I can recommend the War of the Spider-Queen series if you are a fan of R.A. Salvatore's books. Oh and thanks for the apology, many wouldn't have done so.:tiphat:
GothicDan 08-24-07, 03:04 PM	Ed's characters are "Realms characters" largely because of their in-game importance and power levels. And note that I didn't point out just Ed's characters - I also brought up Amlaruil. And let's not forget all of the guest appearances in Blackstaff. Really, it ties in with what I said - only the most powerful and politically informed characters would know about what's happening in other parts of the globe.
ExtinctionBeta 08-24-07, 04:53 PM	"Really, it ties in with what I said - only the most powerful and politically informed characters would know about what's happening in other parts of the globe." All of the characters in FR do quite some traveling. And you're telling me that if the shade enclave were to succeed in shadowrealm of taking over (which it won't because good guys always win) that elimenster wouldn't step in? Somone like Sazz tam(forgive me its been quite a while since I read unclean to remember the spelling) would not quarell in Jarlaxle's afairs? Even if somthing were to happen in a novel that would devistate a certain area, none of the other authors would do more than mention of it more than once let alone have a character act one it. "Look at the events of the DragonRage, many seemed to just ignore it's effect on the world." The only person I have yet to see even mention the event is the same author who wrote Dragonrage, and he only speaks of it in unclean. And the sad thing is that RA.Salvatore has 2 characters (drizzt and artemis) that always fight 500 times and never die. Always even. My point is....even if the authors do decide to interact with one another it would be no differnt than drizzt and artemis are as of now. I'm sure none would even raise arms agaisn't one another...just ally up to beat some new uknown evil. I want new things to happen in the series. Such as the shade enclave suceeding...or elimensters daughter actually killing him....or sazz tam claiming vicotry over the council. But sadly history repeats itself and the series will never change. Just new storys with new heros and new villians. You would think somone as old as rivalen (shadowbred) would have been heard within 2k years or become a demi god by then especially being a prince of a elite group and possibly a chosen of shar.
SirUrza 08-24-07, 08:40 PM	I'd like to know who wrote the novel with Drizzt in it, because RAS has a 'hands off' policy. Mark Antony. He was going to write a novel that took place between Siege of Darkness and Passage to Dawn. I believe it got squashed very quickly when the Wizards peeps got Bob to come back to the Realms after the little disagreement he had with TSR. http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/misc/8580.htm
SirUrza 08-24-07, 08:48 PM	Because I was unsatifyed by the last topic answers that I recieved. I just find Forgotten Realms series a contridiction in it self. Just let the authors say it's in a differnt time period or give them their own world to write in if they will never interact with one another. What's the point? Honestly, the dragonlance novels I do not enjoy as much but at least they comprimise to the meeting of other characters to a extent. The Realms is a series of contradictions because it's edited and managed poorly when it comes to Realms supplements and Realms novels. This happened to Elaine back when she wrote Evermeet, and TSR goes ahead and published a supplement that just trashes everything she wrote. When Thousand Orcs came out, no one had a clue what was going on. Not Wizards, not Bob. Apparently no one check to make sure Bob was writing in the 3rd edition timeline, and whoever the editor of the book was, didn't know or didn't tell anyone Thousand Orcs picked up where the Drizzt novels left off, not in the 3rd edition timeline. The FANS were the ones to discover it. :eek: So yes, the Drizzt novels are out of sequence and totally screwed up the Silver Marches supplement, but the fault falls on the people who have offices and receive a salary for managing the Realms, not the authors who work from home, in another state, who are kept out of the loop (unless they're Ed Greenwood.) BTW, Wizards, much like TSR, has never actually apologized and the responsible ones never actually accepted responsibility and admitted their mistakes publically as far as I know. They don't have to, god know people get bashed enough, just don't expect any official response. I hope this is a good enough answer for you though.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-24-07, 10:41 PM	Thankyou for your insight into the inner workings of WotC SirUrza.
GothicDan 08-24-07, 10:46 PM	Extinction... Suffice it to say that many of the things you see "wrong" about the interactions, I think are right. Elminster wouldn't step in to Shade's affairs unless they threatened those areas under his care or those he cared for, or if they were in some way directly threatening Mystra. And Szass Tam wouldn't give two hoots about Jarlaxle. He's a completely minuscule character in the Realms Above. And no one even know about Shade Enclave until in the past few years, because it's been vanished from Toril for thousands of years.
MarkHall 08-24-07, 11:32 PM	FWIW, the Realms has STELLAR management compared to Dragonlance in the 90s, where about half the novels were incomprehensible from the point of view of canon... Hel, the canon was incomprehensible from the point of view of canon!
MarkusTay63 08-24-07, 11:43 PM	Thank God I never read a single one. :D
charonsg 08-25-07, 12:31 AM	quote "I believe it got squashed very quickly when the Wizards peeps got Bob to come back to the Realms after the little disagreement he had with TSR" what disagreement did bob had with tsr?
MarkusTay63 08-25-07, 01:03 AM	I believe he said something like - "Kneel before ZOD!!!" :D ;)
SirUrza 08-25-07, 07:27 PM	what disagreement did bob had with tsr? Oye.. now you're asking me to remember a lot... like 10 years ago. I don't think it was ever said why Bob and TSR couldn't come to an agreement to keep writing Drizzt novels. Regardless, he stopped. Bob did get a book deal with Del Rey... I think it was... to do his non-Realms novels and the contract supposively had a no-compete clause (meaning he couldn't write for other publishers). Whatever the case may be, TSR didn't want to or couldn't work things out with Del Rey (if they're the publisher in question) and basically turned to Mark Anthony to take over the Drizzt line. Shores of Dusk got scrapped as soon as Wizards took over and they did whatever they had to in order to get Bob writing Drizzt again and satisfy Del Rey (yes it was them, just checked out Amazon to find out who published his other books.)
GothicDan 08-25-07, 07:30 PM	How confusing.
Dark Wizard 08-25-07, 07:44 PM	Just like Batroc wouldn't register on Annihilus' senses (but powered beings like Nova and Quasar did), Elminster wouldn't encounter Drizzt without some major plot converging. To connect every character to each other is a bit contrived and only somewhat feasible in the comics industry which has character franchises stretching back over 60 years and good publication volume during much of that time. Not to mention they live in a modern world with modern transportation and communications. FR for all it's magic does not approach that connectivity at the common level.
MerrikCale 08-25-07, 10:19 PM	What you are describing is the difference between Marvel comics and DC comics in the seventies. In DC, the Flash would face an alien invasion all by himself, even though in another comic he was part of the Justice League. With Marvel, you would be reading Spiderman, and you would see Daredevil swinging by in the background. Then the Torch would land on the rooftop and chat with Spidey. Thats why as I got older, I moved from DC to Marvel, because the world felt more real to me. All of the main players knew each other, or at least knew of each other. It's kinda nice when Spidey gets into a fight with the hulk, and Captain America and Wolverine show up to help. It just adds a whole 'nother level of 'coolness'. :cool: Plus, Marvel characters were always more realistic and flawed. Instead, the world's greatest detective, or a super alien, or an amazon woman, you had a student trying to make ends meet, a scientist trying to cope with the monster inside, mutants battling bigotry on a daily basis etc etc
MarkusTay63 08-25-07, 11:44 PM	Plus, Marvel characters were always more realistic and flawed. Instead, the world's greatest detective, or a super alien, or an amazon woman, you had a student trying to make ends meet, a scientist trying to cope with the monster inside, mutants battling bigotry on a daily basis etc etcOh god... :yuck: You just made me remember The Hulk movie. :bored: I distinctly remember disliking the Hulk as soon as they established that the "monster inside" was really his abused inner child. Gag me with a spoon - comics trying to touch on realistic issues is one thing, but hat was just too PC for me. @DW - So you equate Annihilus with Elminster? :D I think I just got a peek at your psyche. ;)
Dark Wizard 08-26-07, 01:12 AM	That's just my brain returning from reading too much Annihilation Wave, but I think it's a fair comparison in terms of power, not a great comparison but doable given a shift in individual scale. Both are personally powerful but mortal/killable. They each have some long term agendas. Both have have vast resources or connections, both command respect and/or fear. Both have multiple contingencies against death. That last one is always fun. I should have said Thanos actually, they both serve a 'goddess.' The other comparison wasn't meant too seriously either, I mean even at his worst Drizzt wasn't at the level of Batroc, Drizzt is more like Iron Fist maybe or at best a weaker Wolverine minus the anti-hero badass flavor but with a handful of angst added.
MerrikCale 08-26-07, 10:55 AM	Oh god... :yuck: You just made me remember The Hulk movie. :bored: I distinctly remember disliking the Hulk as soon as they established that the "monster inside" was really his abused inner child. Gag me with a spoon - comics trying to touch on realistic issues is one thing, but hat was just too PC for me. @DW - So you equate Annihilus with Elminster? :D I think I just got a peek at your psyche. ;) I was never a big fan of the Hulk and the movie was just awful. The new Hulk deal is interesting though. I think we need a World War Manshoon
creyzi4zb12 08-26-07, 12:57 PM	I've noticed that no matter what the "good guys" always win. Dont worry...There are some novels where the bad-guys win. Take "Crucible:Trial of Cyric the Mad" for example....Poor Kelemvor, I think his old-self was destroyed. I would consider it madness, but if I'd say that, lot's of people wouldn't agree. Kelemvor really is "not himself anymore". Mystra lost a lover, and almost lost Adon. Cyric got away with the madness he did. And whatever happened to Rinda? Or her bodyguard?...the guy who never eats or sleeps? And the fat guy became Cyric's Seraph. And Drizzt Do'Urden....where Drizzt got his ass kicked by Entreri and Jarlaxle combined...NO matter what happens he was butchered by that deadly alliance of drow and human, and he lost the crystal, and Jarlaxle and Entreri got away. Drizzt will never be able to pay Jarlaxle or Entreri back. You say it was for the better, and put some fruity zigzags to reverse comprehend the situation giving Drizzt safety. But the truth is that Entreri and Jarlaxle were the antagonists, and they got away with it. Even tho Drizzt beat Entreri, he was still beaten to a pulp by the other guys.... and was spared. mwahahahaha!! cheers for the evil guys!! :evillaugh:
Lord Karsus 08-30-07, 09:56 PM	Mark Antony. He was going to write a novel that took place between Siege of Darkness and Passage to Dawn. I believe it got squashed very quickly when the Wizards peeps got Bob to come back to the Realms after the little disagreement he had with TSR. http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/misc/8580.htm -That is correct. It was slated to be called The Shores of Dusk. The story behind why it came to be was also mentioned in the last issue of DRAGON. I think we need a World War Manshoon -I'm up for that.
MarkusTay63 08-30-07, 10:57 PM	The "Manshoon Season"? :D