Gith and Illithid struggle. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gith and Illithid struggle. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nickoleye
07-09-07, 05:52 PM Are there any FR novels about the Gith and Illithid struggle, which is briflley detailed in the MM 3.5 background info?
Shemeska the Marauder
07-09-07, 06:30 PM Not really. That conflict has never had a major impact on Toril

There was a gith character (of a rare gith subtype seperate from 'zerai or 'yanki) called the Sojourner in the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul Kemp, but there were no other gith involved, nor any illithids. That conflict was part of his backhistory yes, but not part of the plot of the novel itself (which admittedly was quite good).

The most detail on the gith/illithid conflict can be found in the 2e 'Guide to the Astral' sourcebook, the PSMC I, and the Dungeon magazine 'Beloved of the Lich-Queen' material. Other bits are scattered elsewhere, but not all that much has been added to the body of lore in 3e, sourcebooks, novels or otherwise (with Dungeon's material being a glowing exception to that).
Nickoleye
07-09-07, 06:32 PM Thanks
Alac Luin
07-09-07, 06:53 PM THe majority of lore that I have personally seen about the gith/Illithid thing is in the accesory "Drizzt Do'’Urden’'s Guide to the Underdark" centered around the Illithid city "Ch'’Chitl".
Gray Richardson
07-09-07, 08:08 PM There is also a snippet about the Gith in the 3.5 Underdark sourcebook.

Oh, also the Lords of Madness sourcebook too.
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 02:04 AM There was a gith character (of a rare gith subtype seperate from 'zerai or 'yanki) called the Sojourner in the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul Kemp, but there were no other gith involved, nor any illithids. That conflict was part of his backhistory yes, but not part of the plot of the novel itself (which admittedly was quite good).

-The Sojourner was a "Githvryk", I believe it was called.
Suin Bahhar
07-10-07, 08:25 AM Does anyone know why Pharagos' great hero and liberator Gith planned a migration to the Astral plane after the defeat of the Illithid masters of the planet? And what made the zerths of the githzerai choose to stay whitin Limbo instead?

I imagine the illithid empire on Pharagos tried to escape to the astral planes and the whole of Gith's army gave pursuit. The gith race would have many psionic means to get access to planar travel by then (after thousands of years of psionic selection).

The schism between zerai and the yanki is very interesting too, with the factions of Zerthimon claiming warring all races that could enslave the gith people leads to corruption and following up with taking residance in utter chaos, Limbo. I wonder if this already happened on their planet or after the migration to the astral plane.
Gray Richardson
07-10-07, 07:26 PM Does anyone know why Pharagos' great hero and liberator Gith planned a migration to the Astral plane after the defeat of the Illithid masters of the planet?Gith was not from Pharagos. The human ancestors of the Githyanki came from Pharagos, but were removed by illithid slavers and transported in thralldom to worlds throughout the cosmos. Through many successive generations of slavery, the gith peoples were bred and adapted to look something like the egg-laying race they are today. Pharagos was the ancient homeworld of the gith peoples but not of Gith herself. As for why they moved to the Astral, not sure about that. I think that might have happened after Gith disappeared. Many reasons suggest themselves. This may have been more because an aging Vlaakith (or one of them) sought to extend her life by moving to the timeless Astral. Once her capital was established in Tun'narath, it would have been natural for the population to become centered in the Astral. It was probably also a convenient place to hide out and a good launching point for surprise attacks against illithid worlds. Better to materialize suddenly on the ground from the astral than swoop down from space in spelljammers, which were less defensible, and probably the gith rebels could not compete with the illithids in either quantity or quality of access to spelljamming fleets. And what made the zerths of the githzerai choose to stay whitin Limbo instead?According to the Planescape Torment video game, the schism between Zerthimon and Gith involved a fundamental difference in philosophy about how the Gith peoples should proceed after they won their freedom. Gith wanted to wipe out all the illithids and set up her own empire to rule in their place. Zerthimon craved freedom above all else and did not think it should be taken from other people either. He led his people to Limbo, the quintessential plane of freedom, to pursue an ascetic lifestyle.I imagine the illithid empire on Pharagos tried to escape to the astral planes and the whole of Gith's army gave pursuit.I don't think the illithids had much of a presence on Pharagos. It was probably a minor holding in their empire. They do seem to have abandoned it after the Gith rebellion. If I recall there was not much evidence of their ever having been on the planet. Their empire was largely forgotten with time by the humans that live there now. I do agree with you that the Githyanki harried the mind flayers, pursuing them relentlessly across the multiverse, with the intent to eradicate them from existence.
Suin Bahhar
07-12-07, 10:18 AM Thanks Gray. You keep amazing me with all this indepth planar lore. OO

Illithid sure are on the defensive to have claimed only the deepest darkest tunnels of the worlds they have settled. How numerous are the Gith? They can breed with eggs wich seems more efficient than mammalian gastation, and better than cerebromorphosis. Their location on the astral planes makes them effectively immortal. Why do they fail to eradicate the flayers as a whole?
Most AD&D settings make githzerai seem like the smaller fraction of the gith races. They should not be able to thwart the yankis as they would temporarly stop fighting eachother with flayers as mutual enemies.
Paix
07-12-07, 01:58 PM The 2e supplement on Illithids has a lot of lore concerning the history of the race.

During the height of their empire, Illithids dominated countless prime material worlds and begun their expansion to the upper and lower planes where they met the fiends and the various deities for the first time. Such was their power that they managed to bind even demigods.

However, their arrogance led them to believe they could dominate the planes in the same way they as the prime material and were unprepared for the might of greater deities. Even the Blood War stopped for a time and the fiends fell upon them.

It was at that time that the Gith rebelled, and the Illithid empire crumbled. It was a combination of factors within and outside that led to the fall.

The Gith do not have the numbers to eradicate all Illithids which remain individually powerful and being aware of their weakened state they are also a lot more careful.

Githzerai need to leave the astral plane to procreate and raise their young, plus many of their members must be unable to venture outside the Astral or crumble to dust since they have exceeded their natural lifespan.
ClobberinTime
07-12-07, 04:39 PM The 2e supplement on Illithids has a lot of lore concerning the history of the race.

During the height of their empire, Illithids dominated countless prime material worlds and begun their expansion to the upper and lower planes where they met the fiends and the various deities for the first time. Such was their power that they managed to bind even demigods.

However, their arrogance led them to believe they could dominate the planes in the same way they as the prime material and were unprepared for the might of greater deities. Even the Blood War stopped for a time and the fiends fell upon them.

It was at that time that the Gith rebelled, and the Illithid empire crumbled. It was a combination of factors within and outside that led to the fall.

The Gith do not have the numbers to eradicate all Illithids which remain individually powerful and being aware of their weakened state they are also a lot more careful.

Githzerai need to leave the astral plane to procreate and raise their young, plus many of their members must be unable to venture outside the Astral or crumble to dust since they have exceeded their natural lifespan.

Ah, this helps alot, I could never get my head around how Gith might bring down such a mighty empire....

Has any of you figured out how to hook the Module Lich Queens beloved into Faerun?
Paix
07-12-07, 08:54 PM I do not remember that module.

Is it about a possible invasion of Gith to Faerun?

If so, in the previous edition they had somehow reached an agreement with Tiamat. The details were never specified but it allowed them the occasional services of chromatic dragons.

Perhaps Tiamat now wants them to do something in exchange. That could be to disrupt or invade the Mulhorandi occupied Unther in order for her church to appear as liberators and bring that realm under her power since she seems to be making good progress in Chessenta.

I do not know if that lore has been changed in this edition, but it can offer a plausible tie-in to the FR.
Slayergnome
07-12-07, 09:06 PM Yeah. Eastern stuff would make alot of sense and be fun I think.
There are a heaping of various factions at work in that region right now. Bainites helping Unther (With Thay providing weapons at heavy discount). Holy assaimer soldiers returning from some other realm to fight for their country. Then the powers (likely most powerful) kingdom of Mulhorandi moving against the last remaining free city of Unther. So throwing a Githyanki invasion into the mix to do one something could prove interesting.

Also having them invade any region of Faerun could be plausible. I mean what hasn't happened to the good people of Toril at least once or twice you know? Raiding for slaves, foodstuffs, a good nesting site...the list goes on..along with the plethra of Red Dragons they could come to assist as loyal allies to Tiamat.
PharaunMizzrym
07-12-07, 09:40 PM Here is the link to the Wizards.com page discussing the githyanki in FR. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627

It looks like they may eventually run into the drow.
Lord Karsus
07-13-07, 10:57 PM Has any of you figured out how to hook the Module Lich Queens beloved into Faerun?

-Was that the one adventure in DRAGON/DUNGEON? If so, doesn't it say somewhere or other how to import the storyline into other campaign settings?
Old Sage
07-13-07, 11:40 PM "The Lich Queen's Beloved" was published in DUNGEON #100 (http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/2003/100). The campaign notes for weaving the "Incursion" storyline into the Realms was presented in DRAGON #309 (http://paizo.com/store/magazines/dragon/issues/2003/309).
Lord Karsus
07-13-07, 11:44 PM -Ha, ha! I knew it! Thanks for the rebound and assist, Sage.
lavekkia
07-14-07, 10:15 AM I m running that campaign.
The Dr309 article contains options to play the Incursion into Faerun with a few details but not much
Along with Dun100 comes Poly159 with talks a lot about githyanki

Check also all the Web Enhanchements; they are interesting.
Another source of information is the Gith section of www.planewalker.com
MarkusTay63
07-14-07, 01:00 PM Obviously the race fragmented into more then just the main two, but so far all of the sub-subraces appear to be decended from the Githyanki - The Gith (beastial Gith from 2eMM), Gith Pirates (Gith in Arcane Space), and this Githvryk (Sojourner).

The Gith are said to be a humanoid race with traces of both lizard and Elf blood. I'm thinking a Sarruhk experiment on some captured Githyanki when the Sarruhk were wandering the planes. When the war with the Kastas started they got abandoned along with many other projects. Not canon, but it fits and they are just too 'cute' to pass up. :D

If the Githzerai have any subraces, I think the Buomman from the Planar Handbook would fit well. They seem more 'human', so either that branch was a fore-runner to the modern one, or, more likely, they are a group that has had more success breeding themselves back toward a normal human. Its interesting that they live in the Astral too; they could be keeoing an eye on their ancients cousins.
Calmar
07-14-07, 01:28 PM Are there known numbers of the strength of the githzerai and githyanki, as well as the disgusting illithids?
MarkusTay63
07-14-07, 01:34 PM Nothing known - its basically left up to the DM as to how heavy a presence you want in your campaign.
Zsych
07-15-07, 03:28 PM @Gray: I would think that at the height of the Illithid empire, spelljammers would have been mainly manned with Gith slaves, and assuming that they planned their rebellion instead of just acting crazy, I think the various tools they used for their former masters would have been turned against the Illithid(as far as reasonably possible)

... Wonder what skills the various slaves had(maybe some technical/magic skills for example).

Also, at the time, I would think that the Gith would've been bred to the point that they would have probably seriously outnumbered the Illithid(since all Illithid would've wanted slaves and food)

---

I don't remember how the gith rebelled, but I assume that some might still have remained loyal for a while more at least(and seriously, if you've been indoctrinated with a view point from birth... changing it isn't really easy for most people)
Calmar
07-15-07, 04:55 PM I think you have a good point there, Zsych. According to the Circles of Zerthimon Gith already was a skilled warrior that had served on many worlds as a soldier for the illithids when Zerthimon met her the first time. As far as I see it, soldiers like her supplied the Rising with skills and equipment, so there should be nothing wrong to assume that other giths did similar things to strengthen the rebellion. :)
Suin Bahhar
08-17-07, 01:43 PM Vlaakith holds back the power of the githyanki by consuming their souls at 17th level. Maybe she knows the key to winning this battle is going after Ilsensine. Maybe If she ascends she might be able to help in the illithid war by commiting diecide.
Fabius Maximus
08-17-07, 04:55 PM It looks like they may eventually run into the drow.

Oh, they did, they did.

They found the black elves to be fickle, unreliable, and completely insensible. In short, not worthy to be considered even as short time allies.

Maybe the Duergar will prove more forthcoming, even if they are humorless little pricks. :plotting:

(This is not to be considered canon. Just a personal observation of Farviaan Dem, currently very annoyed githyanki warrior in a group of mercs mostly consisting of drow.)
Calmar
08-17-07, 07:06 PM Duergar seem very likely to me, since their reason to hate the illithids, their past, as well as their developed weaponsmithing skills share many similarities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nickoleye 07-09-07, 05:52 PM	Are there any FR novels about the Gith and Illithid struggle, which is briflley detailed in the MM 3.5 background info?
Shemeska the Marauder 07-09-07, 06:30 PM	Not really. That conflict has never had a major impact on Toril There was a gith character (of a rare gith subtype seperate from 'zerai or 'yanki) called the Sojourner in the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul Kemp, but there were no other gith involved, nor any illithids. That conflict was part of his backhistory yes, but not part of the plot of the novel itself (which admittedly was quite good). The most detail on the gith/illithid conflict can be found in the 2e 'Guide to the Astral' sourcebook, the PSMC I, and the Dungeon magazine 'Beloved of the Lich-Queen' material. Other bits are scattered elsewhere, but not all that much has been added to the body of lore in 3e, sourcebooks, novels or otherwise (with Dungeon's material being a glowing exception to that).
Nickoleye 07-09-07, 06:32 PM	Thanks
Alac Luin 07-09-07, 06:53 PM	THe majority of lore that I have personally seen about the gith/Illithid thing is in the accesory "Drizzt Do'’Urden’'s Guide to the Underdark" centered around the Illithid city "Ch'’Chitl".
Gray Richardson 07-09-07, 08:08 PM	There is also a snippet about the Gith in the 3.5 Underdark sourcebook. Oh, also the Lords of Madness sourcebook too.
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 02:04 AM	There was a gith character (of a rare gith subtype seperate from 'zerai or 'yanki) called the Sojourner in the Erevis Cale trilogy by Paul Kemp, but there were no other gith involved, nor any illithids. That conflict was part of his backhistory yes, but not part of the plot of the novel itself (which admittedly was quite good). -The Sojourner was a "Githvryk", I believe it was called.
Suin Bahhar 07-10-07, 08:25 AM	Does anyone know why Pharagos' great hero and liberator Gith planned a migration to the Astral plane after the defeat of the Illithid masters of the planet? And what made the zerths of the githzerai choose to stay whitin Limbo instead? I imagine the illithid empire on Pharagos tried to escape to the astral planes and the whole of Gith's army gave pursuit. The gith race would have many psionic means to get access to planar travel by then (after thousands of years of psionic selection). The schism between zerai and the yanki is very interesting too, with the factions of Zerthimon claiming warring all races that could enslave the gith people leads to corruption and following up with taking residance in utter chaos, Limbo. I wonder if this already happened on their planet or after the migration to the astral plane.
Gray Richardson 07-10-07, 07:26 PM	Does anyone know why Pharagos' great hero and liberator Gith planned a migration to the Astral plane after the defeat of the Illithid masters of the planet?Gith was not from Pharagos. The human ancestors of the Githyanki came from Pharagos, but were removed by illithid slavers and transported in thralldom to worlds throughout the cosmos. Through many successive generations of slavery, the gith peoples were bred and adapted to look something like the egg-laying race they are today. Pharagos was the ancient homeworld of the gith peoples but not of Gith herself. As for why they moved to the Astral, not sure about that. I think that might have happened after Gith disappeared. Many reasons suggest themselves. This may have been more because an aging Vlaakith (or one of them) sought to extend her life by moving to the timeless Astral. Once her capital was established in Tun'narath, it would have been natural for the population to become centered in the Astral. It was probably also a convenient place to hide out and a good launching point for surprise attacks against illithid worlds. Better to materialize suddenly on the ground from the astral than swoop down from space in spelljammers, which were less defensible, and probably the gith rebels could not compete with the illithids in either quantity or quality of access to spelljamming fleets. And what made the zerths of the githzerai choose to stay whitin Limbo instead?According to the Planescape Torment video game, the schism between Zerthimon and Gith involved a fundamental difference in philosophy about how the Gith peoples should proceed after they won their freedom. Gith wanted to wipe out all the illithids and set up her own empire to rule in their place. Zerthimon craved freedom above all else and did not think it should be taken from other people either. He led his people to Limbo, the quintessential plane of freedom, to pursue an ascetic lifestyle.I imagine the illithid empire on Pharagos tried to escape to the astral planes and the whole of Gith's army gave pursuit.I don't think the illithids had much of a presence on Pharagos. It was probably a minor holding in their empire. They do seem to have abandoned it after the Gith rebellion. If I recall there was not much evidence of their ever having been on the planet. Their empire was largely forgotten with time by the humans that live there now. I do agree with you that the Githyanki harried the mind flayers, pursuing them relentlessly across the multiverse, with the intent to eradicate them from existence.
Suin Bahhar 07-12-07, 10:18 AM	Thanks Gray. You keep amazing me with all this indepth planar lore. OO Illithid sure are on the defensive to have claimed only the deepest darkest tunnels of the worlds they have settled. How numerous are the Gith? They can breed with eggs wich seems more efficient than mammalian gastation, and better than cerebromorphosis. Their location on the astral planes makes them effectively immortal. Why do they fail to eradicate the flayers as a whole? Most AD&D settings make githzerai seem like the smaller fraction of the gith races. They should not be able to thwart the yankis as they would temporarly stop fighting eachother with flayers as mutual enemies.
Paix 07-12-07, 01:58 PM	The 2e supplement on Illithids has a lot of lore concerning the history of the race. During the height of their empire, Illithids dominated countless prime material worlds and begun their expansion to the upper and lower planes where they met the fiends and the various deities for the first time. Such was their power that they managed to bind even demigods. However, their arrogance led them to believe they could dominate the planes in the same way they as the prime material and were unprepared for the might of greater deities. Even the Blood War stopped for a time and the fiends fell upon them. It was at that time that the Gith rebelled, and the Illithid empire crumbled. It was a combination of factors within and outside that led to the fall. The Gith do not have the numbers to eradicate all Illithids which remain individually powerful and being aware of their weakened state they are also a lot more careful. Githzerai need to leave the astral plane to procreate and raise their young, plus many of their members must be unable to venture outside the Astral or crumble to dust since they have exceeded their natural lifespan.
ClobberinTime 07-12-07, 04:39 PM	The 2e supplement on Illithids has a lot of lore concerning the history of the race. During the height of their empire, Illithids dominated countless prime material worlds and begun their expansion to the upper and lower planes where they met the fiends and the various deities for the first time. Such was their power that they managed to bind even demigods. However, their arrogance led them to believe they could dominate the planes in the same way they as the prime material and were unprepared for the might of greater deities. Even the Blood War stopped for a time and the fiends fell upon them. It was at that time that the Gith rebelled, and the Illithid empire crumbled. It was a combination of factors within and outside that led to the fall. The Gith do not have the numbers to eradicate all Illithids which remain individually powerful and being aware of their weakened state they are also a lot more careful. Githzerai need to leave the astral plane to procreate and raise their young, plus many of their members must be unable to venture outside the Astral or crumble to dust since they have exceeded their natural lifespan. Ah, this helps alot, I could never get my head around how Gith might bring down such a mighty empire.... Has any of you figured out how to hook the Module Lich Queens beloved into Faerun?
Paix 07-12-07, 08:54 PM	I do not remember that module. Is it about a possible invasion of Gith to Faerun? If so, in the previous edition they had somehow reached an agreement with Tiamat. The details were never specified but it allowed them the occasional services of chromatic dragons. Perhaps Tiamat now wants them to do something in exchange. That could be to disrupt or invade the Mulhorandi occupied Unther in order for her church to appear as liberators and bring that realm under her power since she seems to be making good progress in Chessenta. I do not know if that lore has been changed in this edition, but it can offer a plausible tie-in to the FR.
Slayergnome 07-12-07, 09:06 PM	Yeah. Eastern stuff would make alot of sense and be fun I think. There are a heaping of various factions at work in that region right now. Bainites helping Unther (With Thay providing weapons at heavy discount). Holy assaimer soldiers returning from some other realm to fight for their country. Then the powers (likely most powerful) kingdom of Mulhorandi moving against the last remaining free city of Unther. So throwing a Githyanki invasion into the mix to do one something could prove interesting. Also having them invade any region of Faerun could be plausible. I mean what hasn't happened to the good people of Toril at least once or twice you know? Raiding for slaves, foodstuffs, a good nesting site...the list goes on..along with the plethra of Red Dragons they could come to assist as loyal allies to Tiamat.
PharaunMizzrym 07-12-07, 09:40 PM	Here is the link to the Wizards.com page discussing the githyanki in FR. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070627 It looks like they may eventually run into the drow.
Lord Karsus 07-13-07, 10:57 PM	Has any of you figured out how to hook the Module Lich Queens beloved into Faerun? -Was that the one adventure in DRAGON/DUNGEON? If so, doesn't it say somewhere or other how to import the storyline into other campaign settings?
Old Sage 07-13-07, 11:40 PM	"The Lich Queen's Beloved" was published in DUNGEON #100 (http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/2003/100). The campaign notes for weaving the "Incursion" storyline into the Realms was presented in DRAGON #309 (http://paizo.com/store/magazines/dragon/issues/2003/309).
Lord Karsus 07-13-07, 11:44 PM	-Ha, ha! I knew it! Thanks for the rebound and assist, Sage.
lavekkia 07-14-07, 10:15 AM	I m running that campaign. The Dr309 article contains options to play the Incursion into Faerun with a few details but not much Along with Dun100 comes Poly159 with talks a lot about githyanki Check also all the Web Enhanchements; they are interesting. Another source of information is the Gith section of www.planewalker.com
MarkusTay63 07-14-07, 01:00 PM	Obviously the race fragmented into more then just the main two, but so far all of the sub-subraces appear to be decended from the Githyanki - The Gith (beastial Gith from 2eMM), Gith Pirates (Gith in Arcane Space), and this Githvryk (Sojourner). The Gith are said to be a humanoid race with traces of both lizard and Elf blood. I'm thinking a Sarruhk experiment on some captured Githyanki when the Sarruhk were wandering the planes. When the war with the Kastas started they got abandoned along with many other projects. Not canon, but it fits and they are just too 'cute' to pass up. :D If the Githzerai have any subraces, I think the Buomman from the Planar Handbook would fit well. They seem more 'human', so either that branch was a fore-runner to the modern one, or, more likely, they are a group that has had more success breeding themselves back toward a normal human. Its interesting that they live in the Astral too; they could be keeoing an eye on their ancients cousins.
Calmar 07-14-07, 01:28 PM	Are there known numbers of the strength of the githzerai and githyanki, as well as the disgusting illithids?
MarkusTay63 07-14-07, 01:34 PM	Nothing known - its basically left up to the DM as to how heavy a presence you want in your campaign.
Zsych 07-15-07, 03:28 PM	@Gray: I would think that at the height of the Illithid empire, spelljammers would have been mainly manned with Gith slaves, and assuming that they planned their rebellion instead of just acting crazy, I think the various tools they used for their former masters would have been turned against the Illithid(as far as reasonably possible) ... Wonder what skills the various slaves had(maybe some technical/magic skills for example). Also, at the time, I would think that the Gith would've been bred to the point that they would have probably seriously outnumbered the Illithid(since all Illithid would've wanted slaves and food) --- I don't remember how the gith rebelled, but I assume that some might still have remained loyal for a while more at least(and seriously, if you've been indoctrinated with a view point from birth... changing it isn't really easy for most people)
Calmar 07-15-07, 04:55 PM	I think you have a good point there, Zsych. According to the Circles of Zerthimon Gith already was a skilled warrior that had served on many worlds as a soldier for the illithids when Zerthimon met her the first time. As far as I see it, soldiers like her supplied the Rising with skills and equipment, so there should be nothing wrong to assume that other giths did similar things to strengthen the rebellion. :)
Suin Bahhar 08-17-07, 01:43 PM	Vlaakith holds back the power of the githyanki by consuming their souls at 17th level. Maybe she knows the key to winning this battle is going after Ilsensine. Maybe If she ascends she might be able to help in the illithid war by commiting diecide.
Fabius Maximus 08-17-07, 04:55 PM	It looks like they may eventually run into the drow. Oh, they did, they did. They found the black elves to be fickle, unreliable, and completely insensible. In short, not worthy to be considered even as short time allies. Maybe the Duergar will prove more forthcoming, even if they are humorless little pricks. :plotting: (This is not to be considered canon. Just a personal observation of Farviaan Dem, currently very annoyed githyanki warrior in a group of mercs mostly consisting of drow.)
Calmar 08-17-07, 07:06 PM	Duergar seem very likely to me, since their reason to hate the illithids, their past, as well as their developed weaponsmithing skills share many similarities.